Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: reallyME on December 19, 2006, 07:44:02 PM
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Narcissists literally have a split in personality, into 2 parts: an active, observing "I" (this is the image the N sees himself as)
and a passive, observed object (the real individual inside and stuffed down)
Although we are born with a sense of self, we can lose it if we turn against it, if we spend our efforts on our ego or self-IMAGE. We all need other people. If we have a sense of our SELF, we need someone else to share it with us. But even if we lack a sense of that SELF, as an Narcissist does, we still need other people, to boost our ego, applaud our self-IMAGE. Without having the admiration and approval of others, the Narcissistic SELF is deflated, because it's not connected to and fed by self-love.
Conversely, the Narcissist gets admiration that ONLY boosts his ego and does nothing for who he really IS inside, so eventually, when he feels disappointed by all the accolades, the narcissist will then reject his admirers, just like he rejects his inner SELF.
Since a Narcissistic person has suppressed the true self, he can no longer "feel" that self. Therefore, his identity then attaches to the outer "I" self. The "I" ego focuses on performance outwardly, the true self focuses on feelings and empathy.
A personality dysfunction happens when both the inner and outer selves do not work together, but instead the outer is shown, void of the inner operating at all or very little.
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ah the magic of google...
what i found bout ego and self that strikes a chord with me 8)
http://shalomplace.com/view/godselfego.html
and an excerpt from the above site..
So, what is Self and Ego?
Put simply, it is "I".
But this ineffable experience we know to be "I" has two aspects:
potentiality and actuality. The "I" of potentiality is the larger,
more universal aspect; the individual actualization of this potential
is more unique and personal. Hence, Self can be considered the
subject of the unconscious, and Ego the subject of desire,
intellectual activity, and conscious experience. These are not two
different subjects, but they are two different experiences of "I".
Self is "I" as the human spirit, who is present in desire and all
manner of experiences, while Ego is the conscious and active
dimension of "I" in this embodied state. When one consciously
realizes this connection between Self and Ego, then the Ego loses its
sense of alienation and isolation and begins to experience the
social, cosmic, transcendent and holistic qualities of Self.
Because of our false self conditioning, however, our awareness
of this connection between Self in Ego can be so terribly distorted
that the Egoic "I" does not know from whence it comes, and so it
attaches to all manner of things within and without the person in an
attempt to complete itself. "I" can then become lost in the
convoluted activities of the mind and emotions, becoming, instead, a
"me," or object of my own mental activity. In such cases (and they
are legion), then "I" am not merely shaped by my experiences, but
determined by them. They are not "mine," but "me." Excessive self-
definition and judgmentalism follow from the creation of this mind-
self, which is not-"I".
....
Given these brief descriptions of false self, Ego, Self, and
God, several different unitive experiences can be acknowledged:
• False self-Ego union . Even though the false self has no sub-
stantial nature, its mode of operation is Egoic. This is one
reason why many have written about the sinful nature of the Ego,
and bemoaned the irresponsibility of the Ego. The problem is the
false self infection of Ego, however, and not the fact of the
Ego's existence. This understanding has many implications for
spiritual practice.
• Ego-Self union. This is a good and natural relationship, which
Jungian psychology has investigated extensively. The development
of this union is the project Jung called individuation. It can
also be developed through a variety of other disciplines which
emphasize authenticity in speech, thought, and behavior.
• Self-God union. If Ego's desires could be extinguished, along
with the intellectual convictions which support them, then the
"suchness" of Self and its union with God and creation could be
experienced directly and non-reflectively. God would not be known
as relational partner, however, but would be implicit in the Self
and in creation and known as Void, or Emptiness. Some forms of
Eastern mysticism seem to emphasize this union.
• Ego-God union. A wide variety of possibilities exist, here. In
general, God is considered as an-Other Being with Whom the Ego
relates through the medium of ideas, concepts, feelings, desires,
images and symbols. God can and often does communicate with the
Ego in this manner, as the Judeo-Christian tradition of revelation
emphasizes. Because the life of the Ego is under the sway of the
false self, however, its relationship with God can be distorted
in many ways.
• Ego-Self-God union. This is contemplative union as understood in
the Catholic mystical tradition. Here, the Ego relates to God
intellectually and affectively, as described above, but also
experiences God through the unconscious realm of the psyche, of
which the Self is central. Thus does the Ego develop its
connection with Self in the context of its relationship with God.
During ecstatic experiences, the Ego may be lost for awhile,
with the Self-God union predominating, but eventually the Ego
returns to integrate the ecstatic experience consciously and in the
overall lifestyle. The Ego-Self-God union, then, is both mystical
and individuating.
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Really me,
Thank you for putting it all so clear. Yep, there is truth in this post.
axa
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Hi Laura
Ns are not the only people who hurt or abuse others of course; but the difference for me with being involved with Nism has been two things- the intractable nature of the problem and the fact the other person fought not to disengage.
I really think for an N to lose a source of their bolstered self-image feels for them like dying, makes them incredibly angry and this is where the meanest behaviour comes. I suppose in full-blown psycopathy the person would kill you outright before they'd let you as they perceive it take anything from them, but the constant stress of being around a toxic person is pretty life-threatening too over time.
It's taken us years to disentangle, and even now I sense my ex is angry with me a lot if i seem more well or more happy than him- though he's incredibly kind when I am sick or things go wrong.
I don't think Ns can really believe in G_d as a separate entity, only as an extension of oneself....which is not uncommon in non-Ns either ( ! ) but for the N the belief would be dropped I suspect the moment it became challenging.
I only know two Ns close enough to see this but my ex has a vehement anti-religious passion ( I call it his anger with G_d ) and my friend ( if he is still now I won't support his view of things ) moves from church to church, even recently to another religion in a search for 'a G_d he can respect'....
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is angry with me a lot if i seem more well or more happy than him - though he's incredibly kind when I am sick or things go wrong
Hi Write
How I experienced that with Nmother and exhN too - they all must have graduated from the same school of Nism!
Leah
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Hi reallyME,
You really have explained so clearly - thank you.
Do you think that would explain why they can emulate or adopt another person's persona? This has been puzzling me on and off for some time, and, not too sure how to explain it. But, I have had 'flashbacks' about it recently (must have buried it, filed it away).
I saw with my own eyes, as he sat in his armchair across the room in front of me, display the exact facial expressions of a movie actor whom he revered, so exact was his facial features and expressions, talking in exactly the same way too, that you would have more or less thought he was the actor person!
I sat froze with shock and disbelief, could not believe my eyes as it were, was a bit scared too.
To date, I have not shared this with anyone, and, have wanted to ask someone - was doubtful that anyone would believe me.
Leah
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Mimicry is a basic device used by predators... and by chameleons.
Aren't Ns both? So I suppose at least some of them would be really, really good at it.
Chilling, though.
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Sorry all, wrote my question on this thread late yesterday as it sprang to mind, but, can see now that it has no relation to the subject. My thoughts are now that the person had no sense of 'self' which is why the person adopted a 'self' that he revered!
Will post on a new thread sometime, when I am able to express it more clearly!
Rambling Leah! :)
Peaceful warm thoughts and wishes to everyone
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Leah,
This thread is an old one that got revived somehow. I don't think it matters now if you stay on topic within the thread. It had already run its natural course anyway.
Congratulations for making such progress in your healing! And thanks for all the neat sites you have shared recently!
Many blessings,
CB
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Thank you CB :)
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This all makes total sense to me. Having recently booted my NSO out the door, I find myself having strange reactions. The strangest of all is that I now feel dirty and repulsed by having had someone with this "sickness" so close to me. Is that weird?
Do N's really not remember their cruelty and meanness? I know the answer intellectually - that to admit it is to admit they have flaws, which they absolutely cannot do. But do they REALLY not remember or are they pretending? I am astounded by the strength of her fight against acknowledgment and remorse - not a drop of either.
Towrite
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HI Leah,
I've seen that "plastic" (in the sense of pliable, not rigid) face too.
Errgghh. Wonder if many fine actors are Ns.
Brrrrr.
Hops