Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sea storm on December 27, 2006, 12:57:00 AM
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I am happy to announce that I have been separated from N for ten weeks now. I nearly went mad when it first happened and cried for days and weeks. I feel more grounded now and even get some pleasure out of life. I survived Christmas. I missed the good side of him and was relieved that I didn't have to deal with the need for his approval anymore.
I want to talk about how it came to be that he labelled me sick and crazy. This was a gradual process that began with his patronizing and arrogant condemnation of my feelings. My feelings were inevitably wrong. As time went on he became more dominating. He gained complete financial control of all income even though he was not working. He claimed that he was much more able to manage money than I. I know now that he put whatever money he had into his toys of private mutual funds. Whenever I would ask about money he would say that I was having an episode ( manic depressive). This became frequent and he would say over and over "You are sick, you're sick!!" if I questioned him on suspicious behaviour. This must sound really strange to people. However, this was what I heard for months and I was isolated from friends and family.
He told my coworkers that I was unstable and losing my mind and becoming violent. He removed his antiques from the house and broadcast to his friends that he was removing them because I was mentally ill and he was afraid I would damage them. I would not damage them. What????? was he talking about? He told my daughter I was becoming violent. Anyway, it was like that movie with Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman ie. Gaslighting.
I became unstable after all this craziness with money and fears of infidelity ( I was right. he was playing around with two women). I couldn't work and it was getting worse and worse. Finally, I pulled the pin on the relationship. He tried to get me fired from my job by getting me arrested. This is sooooo nutzoid.
So ten weeks later after going to a psychologist, a psychiatrist and a counselor ( I have a good rehab plan from work) I am doing pretty good. They have all said that I am remarkably sane given the stress from my job and the relationship. He called the psychologist and told her I had a gun in the house and was suicidal and homocidal. She did not believe him and came to understand what I was coping with. I realize now that he was projecting a lot of very crazy stuff onto me. At the time I didn't know what was happening and it felt like I was living in Hell.
I feel used, insulted, humiliated, furious, hurt, sad etc about his family believing that I am bonkers. He set it up like that and told his new girlfriend that he has been living with a psychotic abusive bad woman etc etc. So the devaluing was very dramatic and served to excuse his leaving me for someone else.
As the smoke settles I feel relieved that I was released from such destructive insanity. However, the scars are defineately there.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of devaluing. To the point where he involved family, friends, police and may workplace????
I am feeling a bit shakey after Christmas and please excuse the length of this letter.
Sea Storm
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O dear Sea Storm,
Yes, actually, I have been to that point where you even start to doubt your own mind and memories because that type of person can drive you to the point where you think "How can I be sure that I am right and they are wrong????" And that is when you start to doubt even what you know is truth.
There is a story about Paul when he was shipwrecked and the whole boat broke up into pieces. Some of the people were able to swim to shore but those who could not swim made it to the land on bits and pieces of the wood from the broken boat. The thing is that they did make it to the shore. They did get to safety.
It sounds like that is when you are right now. You have been shipwrecked and you held whatever pieces you could to help you not to drown... and you made it to the dry land. It sounds to me like right now is the time for you to allow yourself to rest and get dried out and warmed up next to the fire.
You are safe now. You made it. It is going to be OKAY. You are going to be OKAY.
:)
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Dear Invisible,
Thank you so much for replying to me in such a compassionate and loving way. As I read your reply I started to cry and they are very healing tears.
You are so right. I barely made it out alive because of my own self destructive tendencies but I did make it and now I am just starting to heal.
Love,
Sea Storm
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Seastorm,
Well done for surviving. I understand the pain and confusion you have experienced. Thankfully I got out before it went truely crazy, though parts of it were very very weird for me.
I am so impressed that you managed yourself in all the pain. I am so glad that there are others out there who see what is really happening and know the madness of your situation. You have been through the worst of the storm and you are sane enough to reach out and seek help and support. You have chosen to come to a place of care and understanding and move away from the rage of the N.
WELL DONE
axa
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(((((((((((((Sea))))))))))))))))))))))
Rocking you in warm waves, at safe harbor.
In a yellow rubber ducky ring.
With a team of affectionate therapy dolphins.
And this support group sitting on the beach with pinacoladas,
waving at you, saving you a thick cozy towel to flop on,
while we just carry on....
SO glad you made it out.
SO glad.
Keep taking care of yourself, being kind and patient and compassionate with yourself, okay?
And post a lot...you are going to need to talk about it while you heal.
I am so impressed.
Hops
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Has anyone else experienced this kind of devaluing.
Absolutely. I still am.
And you are partly correct that it carries an element of projection. But it is also an apparently universal technique used by Ns to isolate, ostracise and control non-compliant people within their sphere of influence. The primary goal is to compel obedience. They much prefer a simpering lapdog, but failing that they seek to utterly discredit, isolate and humiliate anyone who refuses to comply and is therefore a threat to their facade.
Its a badge of honor to have come through it. Once within their orbit the only way to get out is through such a trial by fire. The only other alternative is to make your kow tow and debase yourself by acquiescing to their fantasy world of denial. Just be glad you didn't take that route. Its easier in the short run but it leads to a wasted, miserable life.
mud
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Mud,
I experienced the devaluing also.........it was like looking at a scales on the one hand I was being devalued while xwife was being put on the pedestal. She is compliant, agreeing and mouthy old me would shout about what was NOT real. They seem to want subserviant partners who will not challenge and go along with the illusion that they are the great one. The only thing is no matter how compliant one becomes once there is another source of supply available they will devalue anyway. So its a case of loose/loose
When I would try and reason with XN the frustration would get to me and then I realised that I was dealing with a two year old emotionally who thought he was omnipotent and would throw tantrums when he did not get his way. This is a phase of development that everyone works through to some extent but it seems Ns stay stuck there.
Relieved to be out of the cycle. No doubt someone else is being groomed to take my place
axa
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((((((((((((((Sea))))))))))))))
How wonderful taht the therapist saw your exN as the liar he was. Your therapist must know what a good and whole person you are!!! Now RUN and never go back!!!!!!! Thank God he was not believed!
I am so sorry for the hurt and betrayal you must be feeling. It must be terrible. I hope you feel it is better looking back at that mess than living in it.
Lots of love and kind wishes.
Love, Beth
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Thank you dear people for your replies. I experience your wisdom and kindness as a precious gift. They really help.
I was not aware that those events were part of the trial by fire and that was very illuminating. I have read about how terrible separating from N can be but did not associate setting boundaries with N as leaving. However, HE DID.
I don't hear anything from him now. I am very lucky...... I rehearse what to say if he does contact me. I imagine moving to another country to avoid that happening.
I could barely survive the onslaught of retaliation that happened when I started to stand up for myself. I had a much older brother who used to hit and punch me and call me names. I would not submit or back off with him. It was "I don't care it I do die, I'm gonna see the shit fly" call of the banshee for me. So this part of me clicked in. Maybe it was God in me or the angels too.
My N was so intelligent and he could spin doughnuts around me verbally. I am no slouch verbally but I would be completely bafflegabbed by his rationalizations.
Some day I will see all that happened clearly. I am still amazed that some people really believed me when I tried to tell them what was happening. My Psychiatrist said," Be very very careful with this man. He is extremely calculating" Having someone believe me was soooooo important. I didn't know how to recognize my own truth anymore.
I hope someone going through what I went through can benefit from what happened to me. There must be something redeeming that can come of all the ......nightmare.
Thank you all again.
Much love,
Sea Storm
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seastorm
You sounds strong and clear. It does seem like a part of you which is saying tHIS IS NOT OK is really kicking in........wonderful. I understand the rationalizations...........they are so crazy that your head starts spinning once they start. Hold onto yourself and YOUR truth. Yes, it is a nightmare but you have moved from the abuse. There is lots of hard work ahead, I KNOW......... but you are not alone and it does get easier. The more distance the more perspective.
xxx
axa
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CALCULATING! Yep, that is a very good way to describe narcissistic people. Most of them, by far, are not dumb or non-intelligent. They often are wealthy or attached to someone who is. But, yeah, they are extremely cunning and calculating...They tend to learn all they can about you at first, so they can later use it against you.
When you listen to them bring up against you, the very words you once told them in a trust situation, THAT is when it cuts like a knife!
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((((((((((Sea Storm))))))))))
My g-d, what this man did to you.
This is the classic abuser playbook. Isolate, discredit, and drain you dry.
So glad you have escaped and so glad you found people who were not fooled and would stand by YOU.
Focus on the ones who see and hear YOU. There will be some who will refuse to. Some of them have simply been fooled completely but quite a few of them are just as calculating as he is, and prefer to take sides with whoever they think is the winner. You know what a loser he really is, though, in every way that matters - spiritually and emotionally and morally, the man is worse than bankrupt.
So glad you are away from him. So glad you are free.
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I have read about how terrible separating from N can be but did not associate setting boundaries with N as leaving.
My experience was so similiar. Once I set boundaries, started to claim back my own life the abuse grew. A boundary says I am a seperate person. It is not ok for you to cross the line. To the N you are part of him - look at Beans posts on Alice Miller. They cannot bear the seperatness of others they see us as extentions of themselves and when that extention does not behave in the way it is meant to well cutting it of is a good way to deny its existence.
Axa
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You sure do,
((((((((((((((((Moon)))))))))))))))))))))))
I'm so sorry you've been going through a new bad patch with the FOO.
Do you think it's been the time of year that has raised some of the old struggle again?
Please have faith it's a detour, but not the journey...
hugs,
Hops
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Sea: Dont worry, he will find another victim. He will tell her how horrible you are. Just go about your business and you and the new woman can have a laugh at his expense in about 10 Years. I know because it happened to me but boy is it hell going through that crazy making!
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I am happy to announce that I have been separated from N for ten weeks now. I nearly went mad when it first happened and cried for days and weeks. I feel more grounded now and even get some pleasure out of life. I survived Christmas. I missed the good side of him and was relieved that I didn't have to deal with the need for his approval anymore.
I want to talk about how it came to be that he labelled me sick and crazy. This was a gradual process that began with his patronizing and arrogant condemnation of my feelings. My feelings were inevitably wrong. As time went on he became more dominating. He gained complete financial control of all income even though he was not working. He claimed that he was much more able to manage money than I. I know now that he put whatever money he had into his toys of private mutual funds. Whenever I would ask about money he would say that I was having an episode ( manic depressive). This became frequent and he would say over and over "You are sick, you're sick!!" if I questioned him on suspicious behaviour. This must sound really strange to people. However, this was what I heard for months and I was isolated from friends and family.
He told my coworkers that I was unstable and losing my mind and becoming violent. He removed his antiques from the house and broadcast to his friends that he was removing them because I was mentally ill and he was afraid I would damage them. I would not damage them. What????? was he talking about? He told my daughter I was becoming violent. Anyway, it was like that movie with Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman ie. Gaslighting.
I became unstable after all this craziness with money and fears of infidelity ( I was right. he was playing around with two women). I couldn't work and it was getting worse and worse. Finally, I pulled the pin on the relationship. He tried to get me fired from my job by getting me arrested. This is sooooo nutzoid.
So ten weeks later after going to a psychologist, a psychiatrist and a counselor ( I have a good rehab plan from work) I am doing pretty good. They have all said that I am remarkably sane given the stress from my job and the relationship. He called the psychologist and told her I had a gun in the house and was suicidal and homocidal. She did not believe him and came to understand what I was coping with. I realize now that he was projecting a lot of very crazy stuff onto me. At the time I didn't know what was happening and it felt like I was living in Hell.
I feel used, insulted, humiliated, furious, hurt, sad etc about his family believing that I am bonkers. He set it up like that and told his new girlfriend that he has been living with a psychotic abusive bad woman etc etc. So the devaluing was very dramatic and served to excuse his leaving me for someone else.
As the smoke settles I feel relieved that I was released from such destructive insanity. However, the scars are defineately there.
Has anyone else experienced this kind of devaluing. To the point where he involved family, friends, police and may workplace????
I am feeling a bit shakey after Christmas and please excuse the length of this letter.
Sea Storm
Margo/Tremusan writes:
Wow..... and the amazing thing is..... it takes a while to undo all this stuff. We actually start believing we're unstable, and I suppose we are, lol. We're just unstable for the EXACT opposite reasons the N's say we are. We've been driven there by them.
My N worked at making me feel terribly guilty about all the time he worked and about spending the money he made. I was basically all alone during 2 pregnancies and their births. The guilt he made me live with made it easy for him to have multiple lives with other women. Some were long term and some were just women he screwed and made feel cheap and abused by ignoring aftwards. I couldn't ask for anything or he'd pull the...."I'm working so hard because I married you and had children" crap.
He's been telling his family that I've been making him buy things, properties, cars etc. He HAS to work hard because of my demands. Now..... I'm afraid to buy groceries and cringe when the credit card bills come every month. I agonize over buying the girls clothes. His chief complaint about me to his girlfriends was that I was a spender. He'd create arguments, move out and threaten to "throw your ass overboard" or replace me with a teacher with a degree to raise the children. Cut off all money.
When I caught him in one of the affairs.... surprised me by making larger fiscal threats and when I asked him to not come home that first night..... he came home in a weird mood. He wanted to frighten me into letting him off the hook and this he did by saying we would simply get a divorce if I didn't stop asking questions. Apparently he wasn't quite ready for my response..... I was fine with a divorce and went to get my jammies on and put babies to bed..... very cheerfully I might add. He ended up choking and ripping out some of my hair that night when I calmly resisted him from taking all my credit cards, phone and car keys. He'd planned to towe the car and leave me completely broke. I was calm and in SHOCK during all this. Afraid he was going to kill me. I had no idea I was married to a crazy person. I had no idea he was spending so much time with other women, not working. I'm out of shock now but..... I still see white when I think of the danger he put us in. When I remember the look on his face as he said "HOW DARE YOU?" for asking about the affair I caught him in, lol. Amazing the craziness I've found myself in.
I fell apart and honestly found it difficult to breath for a while there. I sure couldn't eat.... lost about 20 pounds in a mThis all started the 24th of October. During the weeks that followed..... he continued to threaten me about money and how he'd set the entire marriage up to screw me financially. When I phoned his father, and mother.... to ask for help.... they told me the only problem was that I made him spend money and have to work so hard. They pretty much called me a liar about the affair and his emotional and physical terrorism. I was stunned. I realized that they were actually enabling him to bully me. Whether they knew the truth or not..... they would help him control me. I stopped talking to them and wouldn't return his mother's phone calls about presents for the girls. She actually had the nerve to sound put out in her messages, lol.
I filed for divorce a few days before Christmas, after a particularly brutal phone threat session. Not what I wanted for a Christmas full of out of town family and the main celebration at my home. He closed his business down that very same day. 40 people crying and going crazy, jobless during the holidays. The FBI on his doorstep over problems this caused. Once he realized the courts were indeed involved, he got real real nice. Just like my attorney said he would. I was afraid he was going to kill me. I was paralyzed and in pain... my back and neck were seizing. My clothes were hanging on me. It was eerie, to see him turn so nice and I'm still not buying a word of it. He goes between being very very nice then making threats when I'm not "nice." I know the monsters still in there.... even though he looks and acts like the person who conned me into marriage and making babies.
My somatic N is now attending Sex Love Addiction meetings twice a week. He's bending over backwards to spend time with us and has stopped fighting the divorce. In fact, this completely made my head swim.... he's offering to put a great deal of his estate.... .even the pre marital assets... into my name if I'll drop the divorce complaint, alleging cruelty... and file a no fault I can file any time after giving him some time to work on himself and change into a better human being. His attorney wants to know if he's done something that will put him in prison if the divorce discovery goes through. I wonder about that myself sometimes. I wonder about a lot of things. I know so little about him. ::shaking head::
My therapist is always so, I can't say amused, but he sure seems surprised and entertained during our sessions. He thinks I'm very sane and as forthcomingly chocked full of information as anyone he's ever spent an hour with. He saw my N ass shifty, unable to sustain eye contact and "the most unconcerned person he'd ever seen under these circumstances during 30 years of practicing." These visits with the N were before I filed. He won't see him any longer because I was bent on the divorce and the N was bent on working on marriage. herapist wanted me on paxil for anger management, at one point, which I've chosen to pass on. I don't get much out of our meetings but being validated and talking to someone familiar with N is very important to me. He gives me the occassional insight but moslty he's been trying to keep me focused on divorce strategy in the last couple of meetings. It's like...... I've got things figured as best I can and have to simply wait and see what the N and courts do with us. Very frustrating and still waiting for a darned temporary hearing, after 3 months of waiting. Will get one mid April if it doesn't get put off. Again. Money not a problem now but..... it sure could be again if things stretch out and N goes back on warpath. I really do fear that, no matter how strong I pretend to be. Bringing a convicted murderer with him to help him move out of the house was an interesting twist. He later said he was a vietnam vet with his father and had been institutionalized for Agent Orange exposure.... was the perfect hit man bc he had an alibi and was a Marine sniper. My N can't help himself, really. Or he would.
I'm not complaining. Though the suspense sometimes seems to be killing me. Answering the discovery has pushed N to make concessions and beg for me to drop divorce. Though I told him I wouldn't stay married to him if he put EVERYTHING he owned into my name...... I'm sorely tempted to do that.... if only in strategy. He wants to buy my cooperation, get another chance and sign a no fault divorce I can file at any time. Not even sure if all that could be done, but... what he's talking about now. Maybe he's trying to hide something else I'm not aware of. An investment? Where monies were spent? Something emberrassing he doesn't want his family to know? Maybe he's already plotted having me killed, lol? Man..... ::shaking head:: The place I live right now, lol. Sometimes I feel like the protagonist in the second Evil Dead movie.... when his own cut off hand was trying to kill him, lol? Never mind, lol.
God bless ya if you're still reading.... I realize I'm venting and it's long. And yet.... I do go on, lol.....
Yesterday N asked me if I could be kind. He then said he wanted to know if I could specifically be kind to his mother? She's done more than call me a liar and try to help him squash me, btw. I intercepted e mails where she called me an insatiably greedy goldigger. She also went on to say that I wasn't an innocent in this.... she'd seen me flirt with the nasty sweaty fishy fly covered natives who work for us on a third world island. Ya, sure..... she's a nice Catholic lady, lol. She pretty much was laying out what she would do on the witness stand for him..... as far as lying went. She said I was an unfit parent which is really rich bc her son hasn't even been present in their lives and that's all I do is research parenting and care for these little ones. His idea of parenting is hitting and bullying. I'm a very good mother... and it's my priority. Always has been. She sited some silly incident about my oldest dd having no panties on, under a dress in 99 degree weather, during a trip to a beachy fishing villiage as the reason I was an unfit parent...... AAHHHHHH SO ANGRY AT HER!!!!! She went on to say that he should't let me, the only present parent these girls have, get custody of the girls. She doesn't give a rats tail about them at all or she wouldn't be thinking this way. She offered to move to town to do his parenting for him, she certainly understands he won't ever do any with that statement is how I see it. WHat the hell is she thiinking adn I CAN'T EVEN SEE STRAIGHT WHEN I PICTURE THAT WOMAN'S FACE NOW! She sent an email right before Christmas saying N admitted to the affair, she was sorry for doubting me blah blah blah she hoped I'd be there for Christmas. As if. I sent back a very short e mail saying she'd failed her son, not me. Save her apologies for him and kindly do no contact me again. Merry Christmas. Ahhhhhh...... can I now be kind to her? I returned the Christmas gift they sent home with their widdle N. I'll share the last e mail she sent that I intercepted...... it said she didn't think I was going to back down and he should get an attorney to really go at me. She thought I was going to allege cruelty to me and the children. Lordy..... she's quite a piece of work. Not only does she not care if he actually did those things..... she's not talked to him about it AND she's going to help him set up his defense against it, whether she thinks he did those things to us or not. Nice. "Ya ya sure darling..... I can be kind to your mother again. And sure..... I'll give you another chance to feed me sweet little words of poison and make me crazy. See..... that's what decent people do. They allow themselves to be preyed upon with no concern for their own welfare. Yes yes darling.... for the children. I wouldn't want to be the reason for all the damage divorced do... no. Because I'm the one responsible, right? The 7 years of blowtorching my ass (figurative) isn't the problem. That's it. Ya ya..... right." <tic>
End long sarcastic rant.... and thanks for reading..... if you're still there.
One last entry..... I forgot to mention he was stooping a woman who worked labor and delivery where I had my girls. He left me at her mercy, never even showed up, and I had no epidural meds after second baby and nobody would help me. The thing was wiggling in my back but the meds were puddling under my bottom...... Hmmmm....... I asked her about that during our one conversation and she admitted to reading my file and trying not to end up in the delivery room with me, lol. She was on the floor and she was friends with the nurses who called me a bitch in the hall and rolled their eyes at my pleas for help. Man oh man oh man. I guess I should just shut up and be glad she didn't kill me or hurt my babies, huh? Feel lucky.... or... .something. Ya know..... I really don't. I'm really really pissed. I don't think she should be able to get away with it, if only the part of reading my entire file to my dh while I layed there in pain and he chatted about how my boobs (real) compared to her fake ones. No.... I'm not quite ready to give up this anger just yet. My attorney says that any time I feel like doing something about it to go see my therapist. The N wrote out a statement and was prepared to go to the hospital and sacrafice her ass to calm me down some..... but attorney says not to change focus of who the bad guy really is and...... I figure she should be deposed BEFORE I start hammering at her in her workplace. OK! I really am ending this rant.
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Heh.
Margo, I know your anger is very real and what was done to you was and is horrible and frightening, but I hope you realize you are sitting in the catbird's seat.
Remember the old Rolling Stone song 'Under my Thumb'? He is under yours and he knows it. His fear and phony niceness are your ticket out of hell.
There is no moral, legal or ethical reason why you should not press your advantage and get everything you possibly can from him in repayment for what he has done to you. You especially need to press your advantage to get him away from your kids as much as possible. The testimony of many others here is that he will use them to torture you in the future.
I believe it is wrong to seek vengence on a person and to repay them for what they have done to us. But it is not wrong to seek to be repaid by them for what they've done to us. That is just and well earned restitution not vengence, and it can never fully compensate us for the loss of our reputations and our peace of mind, but material things are all they have to give.
mud
PS. I wouldn't worry what mommy dearest has to say. Her e-mails and his behavior will trump any lies she has to tell.
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Heh.
Margo, I know your anger is very real and what was done to you was and is horrible and frightening, but I hope you realize you are sitting in the catbird's seat.
Remember the old Rolling Stone song 'Under my Thumb'? He is under yours and he knows it. His fear and phony niceness are your ticket out of hell.
There is no moral, legal or ethical reason why you should not press your advantage and get everything you possibly can from him in repayment for what he has done to you. You especially need to press your advantage to get him away from your kids as much as possible. The testimony of many others here is that he will use them to torture you in the future.
I believe it is wrong to seek vengence on a person and to repay them for what they have done to us. But it is not wrong to seek to be repaid by them for what they've done to us. That is just and well earned restitution not vengence, and it can never fully compensate us for the loss of our reputations and our peace of mind, but material things are all they have to give.
mud
PS. I wouldn't worry what mommy dearest has to say. Her e-mails and his behavior will trump any lies she has to tell.
Margo/Tremusan wriites: Ya see now, lol..... I KNOW I shouldn't let her, MIL, bother me. But I'm just not quite at that point of forgiveness and God only knows..... ::sneering up nose::: I'm just not able to, right now, lol. I'm not. ::shrugging:: I don't even know if I'll be able to let it go without having a little chat. Will see. Leaving her to stew, without any resolution or attention at all.... would be so much more effective and cost me so much less of myself. Lordy.... reading that makes me think about how to talk about all this without sounding unhinged, lol. Man..... who wants to believe all the things that N's have done to us? Nobody. We end up telling everything with emotion and we DO sound unhinged. I know I do and I'm ready to stop. Will give that some thought.
As for being in the catbird seat... (I grew up with that saying) I don't feel like I'm there. I'm still a bit under my N's spell.... sometimes I think he can and will do awful things to me if I don't give him his way. Sometimes I think he's deeply evil and did set everything up to screw me with regard to money. Honestly..... he probably didn't. I invite him to open his war chest and have a party..... so he doesn't think he's intimidating me. He probably wouldn't give me the time of day if he covered his pa tooty well. I'm convinced he's coveting me as secondary NS..... then I think he's hiding assets or where he spent money (on men perhaps?!!?) and this kind of confusion is toxic. It's not good for me but it's my journey and it could be worse. Oh well.
Best to concentrate on the balls that will take me to better spaces though..... I realize that. I just spoke to my N on the phone. I admit it....... I convulsed in a funny throwing up face more than once...... and...... I thought about beating him quite badly with the phone I held in my hand. This can't be good. Esp when these things happen when he's telling me I'm the "mommy one" and he's going to take very good care of me. I just want to yack but instead keep my mouth shut and the thoughts and the faces come no matter how hard I try. I'm a 40something woman for cryin out loud, lol!
::Giving self a stern talkiing to while shaking finger at same:: "Young lady you'd best get your priorities in line and stop wasting time on feeling resentful!" There, lol! That should straighten me out. ::Eye back on the ball, eye back on the ball, lol:: Good Lord..... please help me to stop this dizzying cycle of watching all the pretty balls go around..... they surely aren't all of them important but..... how do we really really reallllly move past them? I guess I'll go back to writing and re writing and writing again about things that are bugging me. Get them staight in my head and behind me. I;ve done this before. I can do it again. Concentrate on that harvesting of payback from the N. Yes..... I can do that. We all can, if we're making thoughtful decisions and dealing with our emotions instead of running from them and being haunted by them. ::Eye on the ball, eye on the ball:: Thanks for the pep talk Mudpuppy: )
As for
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Margo,
In two years, or one...you will feel newly that your own energy is a precious resource.
Please DO keep you eye on the prize. That is a completed divorce.
It's not the perfect comeback, or last word.
It is a completed, legally sound, settled divorce.
I wouldn't turn down the Paxil if you need it to stay calmer. You need your body and mind intact more than you need your wrath.
You will have the rest of your life to spend in peace, or in wrath when you need it.
Right now you need to be your own steadying friend.
I'm so glad you posted all this. What a nightmare.
From a distance, I will say I see better dreams for you, without his face in front of them.
love,
Hops
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PS for Margo...
Your anger is N-SUPPLY for your stbx and his mother.
Hops
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Margo,
In two years, or one...you will feel newly that your own energy is a precious resource.
Please DO keep you eye on the prize. That is a completed divorce.
It's not the perfect comeback, or last word.
It is a completed, legally sound, settled divorce.
I wouldn't turn down the Paxil if you need it to stay calmer. You need your body and mind intact more than you need your wrath.
You will have the rest of your life to spend in peace, or in wrath when you need it.
Right now you need to be your own steadying friend.
I'm so glad you posted all this. What a nightmare.
From a distance, I will say I see better dreams for you, without his face in front of them.
love,
Hops
Margo/Tremusan writes: OK... I know you're right. Internalizing it will just take a bit, lol. Still sorta new, ya know, lol?
In the meantime....... setting my N up to put things in my name then divorce him soon after.... regardless of his behavior, is his worst fear. I struggle with that. I am a very nice person, IRL. At least, I used to be.
My attorney doesn't want me on any drugs, esp if the N puts up a battle for custody. Also..... this isn't the best but.... sometimes the anger carries me through. Sometimes it gives me the energy to get past a challenge. To research and collect data that will help me in court, etc. To tell ya the truth.... sometimes it's hard to keep moving and shaking. I can and I know how but... sometimes it's just really really hard.
Sometimes I think my N is being nicer bc he still gets NS from me.... and I've given him enough cold shoulder to really really really scare the hell out of him. He's been in the cold and he's prolly a bit afraid to spend too much time harvesting or looking for new NS under the circumstances so...... ah well. This is truly a circle I find myself going round and round on. I've kind of perfected shaking the pleasure nugget at him. Scaring him with suggestions that I am perfectly willing to go toe to toe and have information on him that will play out very badly for him in court. I have very lucid moments of clarity where I understand exactly what I should be doing. It's just hard to stay on track with it bc it's not something I would usually ever ever ever do. Manipulate someone so overtly. With such ill intent. And I he'll be in our lives FO E VER, lol. And then there's the anger at the mistress/es and the MIL and him and all his cronies and work people who knew what he was doing. Ack! He'll be here soon.... must get self together and be on the right ball when he arrives. Thanks again for your input. Tremusan
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Margo,
You go ahead and rant all you want. You are in HELL with your exN and motherinlaw. I don't know how you held onto your sanity through it all. You must be very stable essentially.
I am in your corner and it will help to have people validate your reality especially when your N is trying to convince you that you are way off base.
I was glad to see that you expiated some of your demons by righting it ob out. There is probably a lot more to say. Your experience in labour was hair raising. I have started to pray for people and I am praying for you.
Hang in there. You are headed for the light and out of the dark. It feels so chaotic to exit all that insanity and it is a perilous journey but miraculously you can get there one step at a time. I see that you are doing that. Brave girl.
Love
Sea storm
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surprised me by making larger fiscal threats and when I asked him to not come home that first night..... he came home in a weird mood. He wanted to frighten me into letting him off the hook and this he did by saying we would simply get a divorce if I didn't stop asking questions. Apparently he wasn't quite ready for my response..... I was fine with a divorce and went to get my jammies on and put babies to bed.....
Tremusan,
Your story is alarmingly familiar--right down to the struggle to get temp orders filed. My hearing for temp orders was in August and I did not get a legally executed document (because he wouldnt sign) until last week. So, I really sympathize with you.
My NH began by doing the same thing yours is. First the threat--then when you don't react, the super-niceness. Tremusan, you need to make hay while the sun shines. The niceness will end when he realizes it doesnt work. Then he will try abuse--and you have already been through some of that, so you know he's capable.
I know the tendency to try to "prove him wrong". He's trying to paint you as money-grubbing so you spend less money to prove that you're not. You know what? It's a waste of effort. He either knows that he's lying and doesnt care--or he's convinced himself that its true and won't be confused with the truth.
The point is: dont waste valuable time (and it is limited) while he's being "nice" trying to prove anything. BUY THE KIDS CLOTHES. And then put them away somewhere where you can get them out of the house in a hurry. If you see a material need looming on the horizon--take care of it now. Whatever cash you have will be split between you in a settlement. That means you will pay for things like school shoes or swim lessons out of your half (because he will probaby not volunteer to help, and the court won't make him). Take care of the kids needs BEFORE the assets are split.
It's so hard to get out of the mode that is still trying to please him and make him think better of you.
Yesterday N asked me if I could be kind. He then said he wanted to know if I could specifically be kind to his mother?
This is the kind of garbage that went on at the end of my marriage as well. I really wanted to justify myself, explain myself, expose his mom's behavior, etc. But do you know what will buy you the most time? Agree with him. Take your lawyer's advice--talk to your therapist. Don't say anything to NH. Agree with him, so he leaves you alone and then keep preparing to take care of yourself. You already know you are out of this marriage. Don't try to "salvage" anything at this late date--even his opinion of you or his understanding of your relationship with his mother.
I'm rooting for you, Tremusan. I'm just two steps ahead of you in the process and hanging in there.
CB
Thanks for helping to keep me focused......::shaking head:: Lord knows I know better, lol. I can't believe how strong these emotions are. I can't beleive that it does seem SO SO important to tell the story and feel understood.... to make the people around us understand how wrong and evil he's been. But ya know..... that sort'a leaves me feeling schmucky too, lol.
He's paying all the bills right now. Going to go and have his attorney draw up an agreement.... not sure if it includes a no contest divorce or just the paperwork I can file if I want to later. His conversation last night said we would would divorce. This morning he was talking about staying married again. He's so confused and unable to stick with a plan. Keeps me exhausted.
It's so unnerving to look at this man..... so pretty and soft and smooth..... so nice to listen to and he's saying things I would have loved to heard around Halloween. It's like being seasick..... with reality going in and out of focus all the time. Madness.
Thanks for the advice from up ahead. I'll catch up soon CB. Tremusan
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Margo,
You go ahead and rant all you want. You are in HELL with your exN and motherinlaw. I don't know how you held onto your sanity through it all. You must be very stable essentially.
I am in your corner and it will help to have people validate your reality especially when your N is trying to convince you that you are way off base.
I was glad to see that you expiated some of your demons by righting it ob out. There is probably a lot more to say. Your experience in labour was hair raising. I have started to pray for people and I am praying for you.
Hang in there. You are headed for the light and out of the dark. It feels so chaotic to exit all that insanity and it is a perilous journey but miraculously you can get there one step at a time. I see that you are doing that. Brave girl.
Love
Sea storm
Thanks Seastorm. I seem to have highjacked your thread..... sorry about that, lol. I think you and I were in the same essential space during Christmas and I will feel free to rant away. It makes me feel much much better..... to do that.... I admit it, lol.
Over Christmas I was really really angry and that anger carried me through. He was being nice and we were acting essentially normal in front of everyone. Crazy ass crazy, I tell ya. If you saw us together today.... you'd never believe we are who we are together.
I want to share this.... bc I basically believe this. I do worry about who I am and what my goals are. I do worry that I don't really know what I want out of life. I'm very focused on helping my girls discover their passions in the world. I never did and I think that's part of what let me be sucked in by my N. He made me feel very special and gave me something to do.... Lord knows being his slave wasn't exactly how he layed it out but...... his adoring workhorse single parent to his children scapegoat was the job description, I now realize. I wasn't completely without resources.... I had my house about paid off with no other debt and was earning and enjoying life but..... there was no true passion. I have to own that I was missing things in my own life that made it easier for him to slide in and highjack my very being. I LET HIM. Im don't blame myself for wanting to feel special.... for I surely did. I'm a little uneasy about the feelings of shame attached to that feeling of specialness. I don't want to be afraid to trust or feel that way again. I want to be able to show my girls a normal healthy relationship and I can't do that if I'm bitter and ashamed of trying again.
Ahhhh well..... I am hard on myself. I had some passion in my life. I don't have that activity any longer. I need to find and cultivate my own interests. That's part of getting through this and recovering. For us all.
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Hi Margo,
I'm not very good with anger, I'm sorry I sounded unsupportive.
I didn't mean to be, but I hear that anger can fuel you to take care of yourself.
I am really glad you're doing that.
And I know that venting is a lifevalve sometimes.
Roar away! I'll learn. I'm glad some others here are strong with it.
Hops
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Like I said before, just nicely go through the divorce. The thing I did wrong was occasionally throw sarcasm his way - or guilt. I found that if I just nicely went about my business and got divorced, I could watch him go through all his gyrations. Then watch him move on to his next victim. I always felt sorry for those women (there has been one other wife and two other serious girlfriends.) The wife and I laugh and shake our heads. She told me some of the lies he said about me. I just went about my life being nice to her and when she went through hell with him, she realized I had been the victim all along. And then the next girlfriend - it must have made her wonder when we all attended the ex's dad's funeral and his whole family flocked to me not him..........hummmm wonder why they like Kelly better than their own relative???? Well, she kicked him out and now the next girl. I wanted to warn them all but realized I would get his wrath because of course, they would go tell him....so I just sit back and watch. The good news is he moved out of state so I just have to deal with him from afar and not very often.
That's my advice to you and CB....just be nice.....go about your business and try to move on.
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Like I said before, just nicely go through the divorce. The thing I did wrong was occasionally throw sarcasm his way - or guilt. I found that if I just nicely went about my business and got divorced, I could watch him go through all his gyrations. Then watch him move on to his next victim. I always felt sorry for those women (there has been one other wife and two other serious girlfriends.) The wife and I laugh and shake our heads. She told me some of the lies he said about me. I just went about my life being nice to her and when she went through hell with him, she realized I had been the victim all along. And then the next girlfriend - it must have made her wonder when we all attended the ex's dad's funeral and his whole family flocked to me not him..........hummmm wonder why they like Kelly better than their own relative???? Well, she kicked him out and now the next girl. I wanted to warn them all but realized I would get his wrath because of course, they would go tell him....so I just sit back and watch. The good news is he moved out of state so I just have to deal with him from afar and not very often.
That's my advice to you and CB....just be nice.....go about your business and try to move on.
All I have to say is..... it must be nice to be so sure about what you're dealing with and what to do with him. I sometimes find myself doubting whether or not my N really IS an N, lol. My therapist said you'd HAVE to be an N to do the things he's done to me. I'm not altogether sure about anything, quite frankly. Well.... I go in and out of being sure, anyways. Mr. Toad's wild ride, I tell ya.
So glad you've found a safe perch from which to view your ex N and the havoc he wreaks. So glad you're sharing your insights with us. Really. Thanks for the advice. It'll help, I tell ya. I was sarcastic more than I care to admit during our conversation last night and I can't stop heaping guilt on him whenever he talks about trying to redeem himself. I sure hope it gets easier than it is now. Thanks.
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It will I promise but try not to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire!
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Margo,
It is ok that you are writing on this thread. You are very relevant and speaking from your heart and I am listening intently. I think it is GOOD that you are having feelings. They must feel pretty rough and tumultuous but you are grieving. Think of other cultures. The women really go at it. Be nice when you can, the operative word being when you CAN. Otherwise have a lot of compassion for yourself. You really are entitled to your feelings. Who can argue with that. So you are angry, sad, disappoiinted, disgusted and all the rest. It is very hard to disengage from a deep commitment even if it was to an N. There is a complicated grieving with these N mates. It is full of shock and betrayal and confusion and lies and doubting your sanity. This is why you need a safe place to vent. I hear that telling your story over and over will expiate the horror and trauma of it. This is pretty much affirmed everywhere in serious literature about trauma.
I can really see my self in you. Passionate, half crazed with longing for ex, spinning with disbelief about so much betrayal, feeling guilty for not being nicer, trying to minimize the damage when all the time you feel that he is going to gut you if he can. This is difficult stuff. Most people are not prepared for this and they can't listen to it. Even listening to the story is too much.
I feel very sorry for you and your kids. This is not deserved.
I don't know what to say except, just keep writing out your feelings. I know i do better when I write too. Oh yes, if you phone him have compassion for yourself rather than beat yourself up. Hops once said that she made these self destructive and last gasp phone calls until she finally just stopped. Cripes if Hops was once a love crazed ex partner then anyone can be.
Lots of love to you,
Sea storm
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(((((((((((((((((Margo)))))))))))))))))))))
And Sea...sweetie, thanks for the only laugh I've had today! Totally true:
Oh yes, if you phone him have compassion for yourself rather than beat yourself up. Hops once said that she made these self destructive and last gasp phone calls until she finally just stopped. Cripes if Hops was once a love crazed ex partner then anyone can be.
I WAS crazed (probably that's why I had trouble hearing Margo's rant at first...uncomfortable memeory). But now that you mention it"
I wrote yearning, multi-paged single spaced letters explaining to him why my love was so true and deep and etetetetetetcetera that I just KNEW his: (lying, alcoholism, infidelity, etc.) would be all better once we were in a committed relationship.
God help me, I dreamed of marrying him. When I yanked my brain out of the romance novel that was my brain on crack .... ummm .... romance .... and looked his Nness straight on, well, then I was ENRAGED.
I phoned. I phoned again. I left contorted humiliating messages on his answering machine and then left others asking him to delete the first ones without listening. (Helllooo? Self? Nobody home...) I drove past his house to look yearningly at his front door and fantasize about his couch. I felt viscerally disturbed when I had to walk past his office building. I fixated on thoughts of his friends who got to be in his amazing orbit, because they were just his friends. I imagined I could be his best friend (in the universe, ever) and be perfectly fine watching him charm the next one. I emailed some more and called some more and hand-delivered letters. Then letters expounding on the earlier letters. I thought I would expire from my longing for him.
That was almost 4 years ago. Now...I'm sorry. Sad for him. Sad for me too, but in a way, grateful...because he was the one who opened the door to understanding what had driven me sooooo unconsciously my whole life (very Nish mother). Poor man. I do not miss him. I actually think fondly of him now and then, with a little sorrow, but not a trace of yearning. It's just a sad thing. His narcissism mixed with my raving romanticism and codependency were such a destructive mix.
So destructive that at last, at long last, I got tired of suffering. Still have chapters of it to go through, I know. But now I'm more dealing with suffering over fighting my own weaknesses in my OWN REAL life....not an imagined life with someone who cannot love me.
Sorry to hijack but I hope it contributes.
Hang in there, Margo. You have all my sympathy.
Hops
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You describe the complexity and addiction involved in separating so well.
I imagine you to be a very pleasant and entertaining partner. Of course, it doesn't matter what a woman or a man is to a Narcissist. The must have fresh supply and they hate to love. I still find it mind boggling that so many of our experiences with ns are similar.
Also I am learning that if a post goes up and it is not the most brilliant and emotionally evolved post, it often is a catalyst for all kinds of good things to follow. I imagine that if someone wrote, "Oh Margo just get on with your life and forget about the past" that there would follow an avalanche of encouragement and validation.
Personally, I really get a lot out of how far people go in their addictive clinging on by their fingernails kinds of reactions to rejection. It can be soooo helpful to someone like me who can hardly believe there is life after N. Imagine Madame Butterfly living to tell her story of the N American sailor. She would laugh and learn to make tofu to support herself and her child, get a lawyer so whats his name couldn't take the child out of the country, take up playing the sameisan and write a book about exploitive relationships. nevertheless, all this does not diminish her distress when it all happened.
I can't believe I am laughing at all this. I am not laughing at wounded people but at myself and singing in my chains.There is no shame in having loved deeply and grieving just as deeply or more.
Sea storm
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Sea,
You SOOOO rock!
Look how far you've come! I know it still feels like the dark side of the moon sometimes. But you are light years from where you were a few months ago.
I am so PROUD OF YOU!
CB
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Imagine Madame Butterfly living to tell her story of the N American sailor. She would laugh and learn to make tofu to support herself and her child, get a lawyer so whats his name couldn't take the child out of the country, take up playing the sameisan and write a book about exploitive relationships.
Sea, that's brilliant. So not only have you achieved wisdom, but you're going to be very rich once this is produced on Broadway.
Tremusan, ditto everything CB said.
(I counted again and realize it was closer to six (I'm terrible about remembering numbers) since I was a full tilt raving Madwoman of Naillot. Now I'm only half-tilt, about everything.
love,
Hops
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It will I promise but try not to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire!
::sniff:: Do you smell something burning, lol? Just kidding. I think: /
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(((((((((((((((((Margo)))))))))))))))))))))
And Sea...sweetie, thanks for the only laugh I've had today! Totally true:
Oh yes, if you phone him have compassion for yourself rather than beat yourself up. Hops once said that she made these self destructive and last gasp phone calls until she finally just stopped. Cripes if Hops was once a love crazed ex partner then anyone can be.
I WAS crazed (probably that's why I had trouble hearing Margo's rant at first...uncomfortable memeory). But now that you mention it"
I wrote yearning, multi-paged single spaced letters explaining to him why my love was so true and deep and etetetetetetcetera that I just KNEW his: (lying, alcoholism, infidelity, etc.) would be all better once we were in a committed relationship.
God help me, I dreamed of marrying him. When I yanked my brain out of the romance novel that was my brain on crack .... ummm .... romance .... and looked his Nness straight on, well, then I was ENRAGED.
I phoned. I phoned again. I left contorted humiliating messages on his answering machine and then left others asking him to delete the first ones without listening. (Helllooo? Self? Nobody home...) I drove past his house to look yearningly at his front door and fantasize about his couch. I felt viscerally disturbed when I had to walk past his office building. I fixated on thoughts of his friends who got to be in his amazing orbit, because they were just his friends. I imagined I could be his best friend (in the universe, ever) and be perfectly fine watching him charm the next one. I emailed some more and called some more and hand-delivered letters. Then letters expounding on the earlier letters. I thought I would expire from my longing for him.
That was almost 4 years ago. Now...I'm sorry. Sad for him. Sad for me too, but in a way, grateful...because he was the one who opened the door to understanding what had driven me sooooo unconsciously my whole life (very Nish mother). Poor man. I do not miss him. I actually think fondly of him now and then, with a little sorrow, but not a trace of yearning. It's just a sad thing. His narcissism mixed with my raving romanticism and codependency were such a destructive mix.
So destructive that at last, at long last, I got tired of suffering. Still have chapters of it to go through, I know. But now I'm more dealing with suffering over fighting my own weaknesses in my OWN REAL life....not an imagined life with someone who cannot love me.
Sorry to hijack but I hope it contributes.
Hang in there, Margo. You have all my sympathy.
Hops
My first marriage was a little more like that, lol. And maybe some of my prior relationships. Juuuuust a bit. But, I must say...... so much easier to deal with when little children aren't involved. I made babies with the biggest most powerful N I COULD FIND! ::smoothing hair::
In my opinion you're entitled to romantic insanity like this. We all are, at some time or another and Lord knows they are learning experiences. It's when we add babies that it get's really scary. No walking away. No escape. Ever.
We're the Walton's this weekend, btw. Weeding the yard and planting little seeds. He's the most committed (acting) N you've ever seen. His new motto is..... FAKE IT TILL YA MAKE IT.... which I gave to him, borrowed from AA. I guess Sex Addiction people need their own way of saying it. But.... my point is....... I KNOW he's faking. Because I can't keep my mouth shut and just make nice, don'tchaknow? His point to me is..... he knows I know..... but he's not going to give up till he's made it. Creepy, huh, lol?
Yup... the F'n Walton, I tell ya, lol.
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Margo,
It is ok that you are writing on this thread. You are very relevant and speaking from your heart and I am listening intently. I think it is GOOD that you are having feelings. They must feel pretty rough and tumultuous but you are grieving. Think of other cultures. The women really go at it. Be nice when you can, the operative word being when you CAN. Otherwise have a lot of compassion for yourself. You really are entitled to your feelings. Who can argue with that. So you are angry, sad, disappoiinted, disgusted and all the rest. It is very hard to disengage from a deep commitment even if it was to an N. There is a complicated grieving with these N mates. It is full of shock and betrayal and confusion and lies and doubting your sanity. This is why you need a safe place to vent. I hear that telling your story over and over will expiate the horror and trauma of it. This is pretty much affirmed everywhere in serious literature about trauma.
I can really see my self in you. Passionate, half crazed with longing for ex, spinning with disbelief about so much betrayal, feeling guilty for not being nicer, trying to minimize the damage when all the time you feel that he is going to gut you if he can. This is difficult stuff. Most people are not prepared for this and they can't listen to it. Even listening to the story is too much.
I feel very sorry for you and your kids. This is not deserved.
I don't know what to say except, just keep writing out your feelings. I know i do better when I write too. Oh yes, if you phone him have compassion for yourself rather than beat yourself up. Hops once said that she made these self destructive and last gasp phone calls until she finally just stopped. Cripes if Hops was once a love crazed ex partner then anyone can be.
Lots of love to you,
Sea storm
I'm not so much longing for him anymore....... I'm just unsure of what to do with myself.... without him.
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Margo,
Been away for a few days so I just read your posts. All I want to say is that everything, every response, contact etc is supply. Its all they want. It has been a hard lesson for me to learn but cutting off the supply in as much as is possible and freeing yourself to get on with your life is the safest and healthiest path. It is so hard to get out of their web. Reading info on NPD always helps me hold onto the truth and reality. This is such a hard time for you and there will be all kinds of emotions, but there is life after Ns.
Axa
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He's paying all the bills right now. Going to go and have his attorney draw up an agreement.... not sure if it includes a no contest divorce or just the paperwork I can file if I want to later. His conversation last night said we would would divorce. This morning he was talking about staying married again. He's so confused and unable to stick with a plan. Keeps me exhausted.
Tremusan,
I don't think I realized that you and NH had not yet decided to divorce. Are you waiting for him to file? What do you mean that you will file if you want to later?
Your confusion is so familiar to me. It's reactive--just as mine was. As terrible as my marriage was, I didnt make a change until I was forced to. My NH had a huge temper tantrum (without the violence, but just as scarey) and in a moment of remorse he said he was moving out for the kids' sake. I said OKAY, and then I just kept letting the ball roll. I was pretty far into the process before I felt as though I was actually deciding anything for myself.
Almost everything was a reaction--what he did triggered what I did. And I realized that that had been my whole life. Just living a reaction.
I want to tell you--don't do that, Tremusan! But, it's like a muscle that needs exercising and, for you right now, the muscle is all weak and shakey. I will tell you though that if you will exercise it, just a little bit, it will get stronger. Sometimes it has to be something symbolic.
You are waiting to see if your NH wants a non-contested, negotiated settlement. Well, let me tell you about negotiations: they are very confusing if you don't know what you want. So, how about sitting down and making a list of what you want. What do you need to start your life again? Money for job training? How much will it take to support you and your children while you are training? What is the apartment rent in your area? Do you need a car, or does your car need repairs? Make a list of things that you can begin now (on his nickle) and what things you will ask for in a negotiated settlement.
Here's the other thing: even in a negotiated settlement, both people need a lawyer. If he hires a lawyer, that lawyer will work for HIS best interests. Your lawyer will work for yours. You can start interviewing lawyers now, for when he is no longer "confused". Things will move very fast after that.
Tremusan, look at his confusion as an "early warning system". It will give you an opportunity to exercise your initiative "muscles". Making a list of your needs, interviewing lawyers (the first consultation is often free or very inexpensive)--none of that is aggressive. But it does exercise your initiative muscle and it will change the way you see yourself. Waiting to see what he will do next is more damaging to you than you think. It keeps you in the victim mode and, in that mode, you see yourself as powerless. And you will let things be done to you if you think you are powerless.
I imagine that my post sounds very logistical and not about emotions at all. But it really isnt. What I've learned in the last year is that I can change my behavior by my thoughts--or I can change my THOUGHTS by my BEHAVIOR. I found that I could ACT like I had power and then I felt like I had it. Or I could act like I wasnt afraid, and I would become brave. It works both ways--and when you are in crisis, sometimes you don't have the luxury of waiting for your feelings to begin the process. If you are feeling powerless and crazy because he wants a divorce before bed, and to stay married when he wakes up--do something powerful. Make a list of what YOU want.
Rant away, Tremusan. We have all been there. Like Sea says, you rant until it's all out of your system (and then, sometimes, you rant some more!) It's much better to rant here than at NH. Ranting here gives you power for action, ranting to him makes him realize he still has power over your emotions. So even if he still does, don't let him know that he does. Rant to us, to your lawyer, to your therapist. We'll listen!
CB
Tremusan,
I dont think you are married to a N he appears able to have feelings of guilt and empathy. Usually, they will stick to a path of lesser resistance than trying to work out a divorce.
Therapy101
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Margo,
Where there is confusion imo there is abuse. His inability to stick with a plan indicates to me that he is buying time to see what is the best option for him. he can turn on a dime, also my experience. What was written in stone yesterday is of no consequence today if it suits him. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT HIM. As for the comments on guilt and empathy........... well I was with an someone who should have gotten an oscar for his performance on guilt and empathy. I saw through it eventually when I realised that all the fake empathy and fake guilt changed nothing. The behaviours, once he thought he had conned me AGAIN, returned to absolute N behaviour.
I have no doubt that keeping you exhausted is also part of the plan. Engaging with them is exhausting your energy is taken up with so many things and also trying to figure out what is going on in his head. I gave up on this when I learned that what was going on in his head was how could he get the best out of the situation with the least effort. My guess is that he has a number of plans whizzing around in his brain and he is waiting to see which is the most beneficial to him. That i believe is the bottom line.
axa
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I dont think you are married to a N he appears able to have feelings of guilt and empathy.
True, but many of them routinely fake feelings of guilt and empathy to draw back victims who are attempting to leave.
The test is whether those 'feelings' remain after the target is drawn back in. If they don't, more than likely they were not genuine but only a manipulation.
Usually, they will stick to a path of lesser resistance than trying to work out a divorce.
Again true, but he isn't actually working out a divorce. He's saying he will if it comes to that. The problem is, when it comes to that they never keep their word. Again it seems to me, it's manipulation masquerading as reasonableness.
mud
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He's paying all the bills right now. Going to go and have his attorney draw up an agreement.... not sure if it includes a no contest divorce or just the paperwork I can file if I want to later. His conversation last night said we would would divorce. This morning he was talking about staying married again. He's so confused and unable to stick with a plan. Keeps me exhausted.
Tremusan,
I don't think I realized that you and NH had not yet decided to divorce. Are you waiting for him to file? What do you mean that you will file if you want to later?
Your confusion is so familiar to me. It's reactive--just as mine was. As terrible as my marriage was, I didnt make a change until I was forced to. My NH had a huge temper tantrum (without the violence, but just as scarey) and in a moment of remorse he said he was moving out for the kids' sake. I said OKAY, and then I just kept letting the ball roll. I was pretty far into the process before I felt as though I was actually deciding anything for myself.
Almost everything was a reaction--what he did triggered what I did. And I realized that that had been my whole life. Just living a reaction.
I want to tell you--don't do that, Tremusan! But, it's like a muscle that needs exercising and, for you right now, the muscle is all weak and shakey. I will tell you though that if you will exercise it, just a little bit, it will get stronger. Sometimes it has to be something symbolic.
You are waiting to see if your NH wants a non-contested, negotiated settlement. Well, let me tell you about negotiations: they are very confusing if you don't know what you want. So, how about sitting down and making a list of what you want. What do you need to start your life again? Money for job training? How much will it take to support you and your children while you are training? What is the apartment rent in your area? Do you need a car, or does your car need repairs? Make a list of things that you can begin now (on his nickle) and what things you will ask for in a negotiated settlement.
Here's the other thing: even in a negotiated settlement, both people need a lawyer. If he hires a lawyer, that lawyer will work for HIS best interests. Your lawyer will work for yours. You can start interviewing lawyers now, for when he is no longer "confused". Things will move very fast after that.
Tremusan, look at his confusion as an "early warning system". It will give you an opportunity to exercise your initiative "muscles". Making a list of your needs, interviewing lawyers (the first consultation is often free or very inexpensive)--none of that is aggressive. But it does exercise your initiative muscle and it will change the way you see yourself. Waiting to see what he will do next is more damaging to you than you think. It keeps you in the victim mode and, in that mode, you see yourself as powerless. And you will let things be done to you if you think you are powerless.
I imagine that my post sounds very logistical and not about emotions at all. But it really isnt. What I've learned in the last year is that I can change my behavior by my thoughts--or I can change my THOUGHTS by my BEHAVIOR. I found that I could ACT like I had power and then I felt like I had it. Or I could act like I wasnt afraid, and I would become brave. It works both ways--and when you are in crisis, sometimes you don't have the luxury of waiting for your feelings to begin the process. If you are feeling powerless and crazy because he wants a divorce before bed, and to stay married when he wakes up--do something powerful. Make a list of what YOU want.
Rant away, Tremusan. We have all been there. Like Sea says, you rant until it's all out of your system (and then, sometimes, you rant some more!) It's much better to rant here than at NH. Ranting here gives you power for action, ranting to him makes him realize he still has power over your emotions. So even if he still does, don't let him know that he does. Rant to us, to your lawyer, to your therapist. We'll listen!
CB
Tremusan,
I dont think you are married to a N he appears able to have feelings of guilt and empathy. Usually, they will stick to a path of lesser resistance than trying to work out a divorce.
Therapy101
Honestly...... I struggle with this. My therapist says it's very difficult for professionals to identify a true N.... so...I can't say I'd bet my life on it. I just know that he's very controlling, no doubt about that. My Therapist thinks he's one, btw. He's met him on 2 or 3 occassions. N also IS trying to skirt getting the divorce. He's moving in the direction of getting me to agee to TRY to work things out... only agree on what will go into the divorce papers and not file them. Give him another chance. Work out the settlement and put things in my name but NOT actually file the divorce. Wait till he screws up again, is what i'm supposed to wait on. It took me 7 years to actually catch him last time. Maybe he thinks he's smart enough to NOT get caught this time. Or..... maybe he wants to get me calm and happy with the money in my own name, divorce on the back burner....and have me knocked off? Heck, he's in love with money enough to do that. He's never lost anything, really..... I can imagine him doing whatever it takes to get what he wants. Jjust not entirely sure if he wants his N space back more than his money, lol.
Here's part of the waiting dilemma. I can't seem to get a darned temp order to have him removed from the home. He talks and talks and talks! He talked about just being my boyfriend after the divorce.... living with us and paying hte bills (read that as jerking me around with money) as before. He talked about whisking me away to Paris and remarrying me.... he was doing lots of internet surfing on cheesey marriage packages during that phase. He's talked about divorcing but just pretending we're still married. Now he's talking about this deal where we skip the divorce and just get the settlement out of the way. All in all.... I feel like a dimbo just listening to him. But hey..... not supposed to taunt, rage, be sarcastic, annoy or otherwise provoke him, right, lol?
So in the meantime... I'm feeling like there's a very untrustworthy bloke messing around in my house, eating my food and using my toilets while he chats me up about how he's going to write up an offer to buy something that's not even for sale: /
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Margo,
Where there is confusion imo there is abuse. His inability to stick with a plan indicates to me that he is buying time to see what is the best option for him. he can turn on a dime, also my experience. What was written in stone yesterday is of no consequence today if it suits him. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT HIM. As for the comments on guilt and empathy........... well I was with an someone who should have gotten an oscar for his performance on guilt and empathy. I saw through it eventually when I realised that all the fake empathy and fake guilt changed nothing. The behaviours, once he thought he had conned me AGAIN, returned to absolute N behaviour.
I have no doubt that keeping you exhausted is also part of the plan. Engaging with them is exhausting your energy is taken up with so many things and also trying to figure out what is going on in his head. I gave up on this when I learned that what was going on in his head was how could he get the best out of the situation with the least effort. My guess is that he has a number of plans whizzing around in his brain and he is waiting to see which is the most beneficial to him. That i believe is the bottom line.
axa
Well.,... fortunetely for me I don't have to guess about his intentions on buying time. He admits that quite freely..... his attorney isn't so very happy about it either. He's said from the beginning that he can make this last for years and years.... he's adept at jerking people around in court. He does it all the time and if there's no one trying to serve him..... he's off his game. Serve him... as in serve him legal papers, that is. He was laughing last week about leading a marshall around, while using a fake accent, telling the guy he was from a different country and not the guy the Marshall was looking for. Talk about balls.
He's all about himself. The only thing he loves more than sex with gullable easy mark single mothers with divorced parents.... (the easiest of targets) is money. Him offering to put half of his PRE marital assets into my name..... along with half the marital assets.... is frightening. What is he up to?!??! God help me when he sounds truly believable..... and I'm so damned tired.
And yes...... he's going to keep jerking everyone around till he gets his way or he's forced into doing what the court mandates. He's already 2 weeks late turning in his first interrogatories which, btw, he put off in the first place by telling my attorney he'd hand over all the paperwork on his own, lol. AHHHHH did I hit the roof when I heard my attorney fell for that one. Ya know..... my N and I can actually laugh at what I call his Werewolfishness. He finds himself very very amusing and I've always had a pretty twisted sense of humor. Another question...... is getting me to put the divorce aside for a bit..... enough for him? Will he stop there for a while if I agree to it?
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Margo,
Here is all I can tell you. I have been stuck in court for five years with a relative. Compromise and negotiation with him is a dead end street of manipulation and endless games of Lucy pulling the football back just as Charlie Brown is about to kick it.
I believe your only choice, and the only attitude which will serve you well, is to put maximum pressure on him at all times with the assumption being that you will be forced to go to the very end of the proceedings in court. Talking to him, negotiating with him and giving him the benfit of the doubt are all seen as weaknesses by him and encourage crooked deals and manipulations.
They are afraid of open court and being exposed and having to present actual evidence. If you focus solely on doing those things one of two things will happen;
1. He'll get scared and come to you with the best deal you will be able to get from him, or
2. He'll stick it out you will have set your best case forward in court and get the best deal you could have from the legal system.
Any other course is playing ball on his home field and will lead to endless manipulations and compromises and bait and switch tactics. If you approach him in good faith to make a deal he'll just back up again and a again until you can't even see where you started from. Your strength is his fear of exposure and open court. Leave your strength and you'll be at his mercy.
That's my opinion and experience.
mud
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TherapistN or Therapy 101:
Please, but would you mind introducing yourself a bit?
For some reason I just felt very uncomfortable when you popped up in the middle of Margo's detailed discussion of her struggles about divorce.
I'm hopeful it's just paranoia, but I know privacy can be violated here.
TherapistN -- are you Tremusan's husband?
Thank you,
Hopalong
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I dont think you are married to a N he appears able to have feelings of guilt and empathy.
True, but many of them routinely fake feelings of guilt and empathy to draw back victims who are attempting to leave.
The test is whether those 'feelings' remain after the target is drawn back in. If they don't, more than likely they were not genuine but only a manipulation.
Usually, they will stick to a path of lesser resistance than trying to work out a divorce.
Again true, but he isn't actually working out a divorce. He's saying he will if it comes to that. The problem is, when it comes to that they never keep their word. Again it seems to me, it's manipulation masquerading as reasonableness.
mud
You guys are gonna love this, lol. N just phoned..... all cheery and upbeat about his "settlement" agreement. He quickly glossed over how he'd put the 3 most expensive PRE marital assets into trust for the girls and left out the 4th in the agreement, lol. I asked him what there was of the PRE marital assets to include.... since he didn't mention any of this when OFFERED THEM UP! He was offended and let me know I was beginning to aggravate him. Oh my....... anyone surprised, lol? I never knew what I wanted etc etc. He actually raised his voice a bit and I found myself wanting to calm him nad brinng him back to the table.... which is where he wants me.... and I surely don't belong.
I'm so stunned I can't even form words about how I feel. If I didn't have some hope that this woiuld just all be over quickly.... I wouldn't be so dissapointed. I knew it was coming. I knew he would jump sideways 10 different ways and the dickering would be unbearable and extended. It's what he's ,made of....... not what he does.
When I tried to calmly address teh fact that he offered things he didn't have.... he got on his "Being a mother I thought yoiu'd want your children cared for....." and I cut him off by saying I was still in shock and would be checking to see if he had, indeed put those things into a trust for the girls he couldn't change or screw with. He assured me he had, which makes sense only if he knew he was going to be offering me this idiot deal. AHHHHHH> Circles! That's going to be my new curse word, lol.
So......it's official, he's dicking with me. And.... he also threw in some threats about what I'd end up with if I didn't take this deal. His need to control is so obviouse. He was going to give me alimony for 3 years and set the child support at his current underemployed income yada yada yada.
I cannot tell you how much I dread his coming down on me with dread when I tell him I'll pass.
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You know when they say if your nervous if you have to stand in front of an audience to picture all the people in their underwear so you don’t’ feel so intimidated.
With the N’s when I would picture them as a 6 year old kid. Hear what they were saying look at them like I’d look at my son. Aware of his reasoning that he thinks is rational as a 6 year old. Roll my eyes when he wasn’t looking. Think Oh dear god, when I say no there is going to be a tantrum. And it always came. Send him to his room and listen to whining and crying for as long as it took but from a distance. He would get sick of himself till he stopped come back out and feel sorry, just until the next time I said no and here came the tantrums again. Fortunately it got better as he got older. He was growing up and could rationalize better. With N’s they never do. It’s dealing with a 6 year old mind, tantrums, decisions, lies, manipulating and all that goes along with being a child.
My problem was that I looked at an adult and it was hard for me to place the body with the mind they have. I was always looking at them as adults. Made me freaking crazy with what came out of their mouths how they rationalized things. I would fee the same way as I did when I knew a tantrum was coming from my kid. Oh God! Here comes the whining and crying. Dread the scene. I stopped looking at the adult N’s. I would lower my eyes and listen so I didn’t have to look at this grown up person/body. It was so much more effective for me. I heard a selfish, troubled kid talking and I didn’t feel so frustrated then. I let them go on and on and did what I needed anyway. They will always be stuck as little self-centered kids. If you can visualize this they won’t be so intimidating anymore.
With our children you think Oh god please get me through this child/teen stage. You bite your lip, roll your eyes and drop the hammer sometimes. They hopefully grow up to be productive human adult beings. N’s are always going to stay that child that you will always bite your lip, roll your eyes even drop the hammer but this will last for the rest of your life because they never grow up. OMG I could not imagine UN ending tantrums.
Margo try to picture him as a kid being taken on by big adult attorneys and a grown wife.
He is going to react like a punished kid. You’re just dreading the tantrum.
It helped me to think of them this way. I was less stressed when dealing with them. Till I was able to get them the hell out of my life.
Love Deb
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Tremusan,
What are you worried about? If your husband is paying the bills and trying to work things out and attempting to advance your best interest. N are very cerebal people and tend to not be that physical. A N will manipulate for his own best interests. If he is honestly giving more than what is fair, then what do you have to loose? A true N will want to come out ahead and will not sacrifice anything not come out on top.
PS New to this site and just visiting... from Wichita,KS studying for a PHD!
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Tremusan,
What are you worried about? If your husband is paying the bills and trying to work things out and attempting to advance your best interest. N are very cerebal people and tend to not be that physical. A N will manipulate for his own best interests. If he is honestly giving more than what is fair, then what do you have to loose? A true N will want to come out ahead and will not sacrifice anything not come out on top.
PS New to this site and just visiting... from Wichita,KS studying for a PHD!
Hey Wichita. Are ya gonna be a psychotherapist or somethin when you grow up, lol?
To tell you the truth...... I worry more about the trust issue with him right now. And what will happen now that our 2 little girls are becoming attached to him. I can't trust that he'll hang around or not bring some crazy woman back into our lives..... heck, I'm not even sure the other ones are gone. Working on a deal with him would be about trusting him again. Not just about money, ya know?
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I dont think you are married to a N he appears able to have feelings of guilt and empathy.
True, but many of them routinely fake feelings of guilt and empathy to draw back victims who are attempting to leave.
The test is whether those 'feelings' remain after the target is drawn back in. If they don't, more than likely they were not genuine but only a manipulation.
Usually, they will stick to a path of lesser resistance than trying to work out a divorce.
Again true, but he isn't actually working out a divorce. He's saying he will if it comes to that. The problem is, when it comes to that they never keep their word. Again it seems to me, it's manipulation masquerading as reasonableness.
mud
You guys are gonna love this, lol. N just phoned..... all cheery and upbeat about his "settlement" agreement. He quickly glossed over how he'd put the 3 most expensive PRE marital assets into trust for the girls and left out the 4th in the agreement, lol. I asked him what there was of the PRE marital assets to include.... since he didn't mention any of this when OFFERED THEM UP! He was offended and let me know I was beginning to aggravate him. Oh my....... anyone surprised, lol? I never knew what I wanted etc etc. He actually raised his voice a bit and I found myself wanting to calm him nad brinng him back to the table.... which is where he wants me.... and I surely don't belong.
I'm so stunned I can't even form words about how I feel. If I didn't have some hope that this woiuld just all be over quickly.... I wouldn't be so dissapointed. I knew it was coming. I knew he would jump sideways 10 different ways and the dickering would be unbearable and extended. It's what he's ,made of....... not what he does.
When I tried to calmly address teh fact that he offered things he didn't have.... he got on his "Being a mother I thought yoiu'd want your children cared for....." and I cut him off by saying I was still in shock and would be checking to see if he had, indeed put those things into a trust for the girls he couldn't change or screw with. He assured me he had, which makes sense only if he knew he was going to be offering me this idiot deal. AHHHHHH> Circles! That's going to be my new curse word, lol.
So......it's official, he's dicking with me. And.... he also threw in some threats about what I'd end up with if I didn't take this deal. His need to control is so obviouse. He was going to give me alimony for 3 years and set the child support at his current underemployed income yada yada yada.
I cannot tell you how much I dread his coming down on me with dread when I tell him I'll pass.
OK.... I spoke to husband again and he explained that he'd set the trusts up a while ago... months. He did tell me he'd done it..... just not what was IN them. Be that as it may....... I'm not going to focus on that right now. It's just one more distraction.
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I read your file and just wanted you to know I am still married to a supposed N that was also SA and he changed and became a great father and husband. So, for your childrens sake don't throw in the towel!!! It took some time for him to complete the 12 steps and his entire spirit changed. I am not a person that believes in divorce (only in extreme cases) especially when a family has children. IF your husband is attending a group you might be surprised at your life afterwards!!
Peace and Joy
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Therapy N,
Hiya,
Welcome.
If you are studying for you PHD I can understand why you would come here. You want to be the best you can be.
Your trying to understand and analyze what you see written. This is the best place you can be if you plan on understand N's and how they tick. What pain they cause people. Look beyond your text books. As much as you are curious about what we say here I am as curious with you.
Have you ever know a N in your personal life? I mean family member/close friend? If you have can you explain what your views/experiences are with them. Did they cause you emotional suffering? What were there personalities like?
Or were you lucky enough not to come across one? Just wondering?
Can you share with us?
You might of got lucky coming here. We may be able to help you understand so you don't make the victim in your private therapy feel like the victim over again. which happens way to often.
Love
Deb
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therapyN,
What are you worried about?
You seem rather sanguine about the potential harm caused by a man who chokes and pulls the hair out of his wife when he is caught in adultery and brings convicted murderers to the house his wife and daughters live in to help him move out.
The statement that he is attempting to advance Margo's best interest seems slightly bizarre as well, unless of course you are concealing some personal familiarity with this situation.
I do agree with you that Ns are usually physical cowards, although they will sometimes harm those whom they don't think will or can fight back. And they are usually fairly cerebral; just seldom as cerebral as they seem to think.
mud
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I read your file and just wanted you to know I am still married to a supposed N that was also SA and he changed and became a great father and husband. So, for your childrens sake don't throw in the towel!!! It took some time for him to complete the 12 steps and his entire spirit changed. I am not a person that believes in divorce (only in extreme cases) especially when a family has children. IF your husband is attending a group you might be surprised at your life afterwards!!
Peace and Joy
Oh saneone..... I can't tell you how much your words help. Up to this point.... all information has been pretty dour and it's a refreshing see that someone's situation has been more positive. From your siggy I see you've come through and have a better life. Could you please share some of your situation with us so we can learn from it. Thanks
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Hi,
Try to leave emotions out and focus on the core. We can be blinded by our emotions! I have seen many people who have at one point of in there lives resulted in a physical outburst. Many couples that are "normal" might have experience this once in there relationships or more.. We are from old caveman reflex reactions of "fight or flight" and stress levels can result in a return to insticnt in leu of reason. To walk out of a realtionship because of a physical alteration... may be kin to locking up the father that is unemployed, sick and trying to feed children when he breaks down and steals food for his child... Environment can affect our decisions. Margo does your husband constantly abuse you physically? Do you think he loves you? People like to label others N all the time... the truth is we all exhibit the N behaviour at some point in our lives. A true self centered N doesn't really like sex!!!! its just a mental masterbation to them. Many couples of N are afflicted to this overwhelmingly. (one of them doesn't get any!) The point is we all just see the "victims" side of the story and never the transgressors or vice/versa... got a meeting will continue latter....
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I am very uncomfortable and I feel there is something odd going on on this thread.
I hope Margo if you want to dialogue so trustingly with this person who's abruptly appeared here that you will stop giving details about your situation.
Okay?
I'm going to bug off now but I am concerned about you.
Please don't be reckless.
Hops
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I am very uncomfortable and I feel there is something odd going on on this thread.
I hope Margo if you want to dialogue so trustingly with this person who's abruptly appeared here that you will stop giving details about your situation.
Okay?
I'm going to bug off now but I am concerned about you.
Please don't be reckless.
Hops
I feel so ao wful that I've highjacked Seastorm's thread. Please.... sorry to have worried you. I'm going to focus on other people's messages and try to stay focused on the important balls in my life. Thanks
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Margo,
It is completely ok that you are writing on this thread. I just get bugged when people exchange recipes etc when I want to get the real goods. You are working through essential issues here. Good for you.
Therapist??????? Do your homework. Ns can be somatic Ns and they are very sexual with anyone they can snare. Cerebral Ns aren't interested in sex after initially catching their mate. These stories rarely have happy endings. I don't know of any except for people who are still caught in the thrall of the narcissist's manipulations. Of course they will be wonderfully nice when they sense their mate distancing themselves. This is not a long term change or solution.
As for 12 step programs, they are very good but again they do not address personality disorders. Once an alcoholic dries out, they are sober. Working the 12 steps helps them stay sober but there is a lot more to dealing with the abuse that caused the "seismic rift" of abandonment and the splitting into sociopathy. Be verrry careful when advising a woman to stay in an abusive relationship or advising to leave for that matter. It is a personal decision.
Oddly, I was left feeling the same distrust in Therapist. Something limited or msising there. Could this person be very young? inexperienced? If so, then they can learn here and that is good. Better to share story than to come on with advice. There is something a bit unsettling about that.
Margo, you don't have to shut down. It is a lttle worrisome that you want to hear about miraculous stories of redemption. Very understandable though. Didn't we all bargain with the devil and pray that what our hearts and intuition was telling us was just childish nightmares that we would wake from in the morning.
It would not hurt to consult with a lawyer. In my country we can interview a lawyer for 30 minutes at a fraction of their usual cost. I interviewed 3 lawyers and learned a lot about how they related to me and my situation. Some actually care about their clients and protect them. They seem to understand Nism because they deal with criminals. The lawyer does the bargaining. A good one will get right to it. Narcissists love negotiation and mediation and will have everyone going in circles and wasting tons of money. Get information from a lawyer about what is ahead of you.
Lot of love,
Sea storm
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Hi Margo,
Everyone likes to advise fighting, and standing ones ground, every once in a while try giving a little and see what happens. I read the concern about the 12 step program and a true personality disorder.. I say have faith you will be surprised what God can do! I was abused, cheated on, and lied too. I have a changed man now! I am just a small voice of healing out here that likes to balance some of the more aggressive threads. See not just one therapist try another and see if they advise the same things, have you tried ANON? Many people are blessed in ways they take for granite, and never reallize what they had until its gone, or something worse comes around.
Peace & Joy
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Just a note to Margo, and anyone else who might be reading--
Saneone and TherapyN are the same person. Pretty easy to check--they have the same email address (BUBBA--that says a lot, doesn't it?).
What Saneone is proposing is that Margo "give a little" to someone who tore out chunks of her hair in a rage. Okay, Bubba, you're entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to my goodwill.
I have spent a lot of time and effort teaching myself to recognize an abuser early in the process. It has paid off right here. I'm not interacting at all with this character. That's a real appropriate boundary in a case like this.
CB
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Thank you CB. We are not the same character TherapyN is my son who is studying for his PHD. The email address is false to prevent spam and it was his idea. You can listen if you want or ignore... that is the beauty of these threads. You seem aggressive and need peace?
Peace and Joy
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Many people are blessed in ways they take for granite
I think you meant..."take for granted". Granite is a dense and impenetrable stone, that counter tops and some people's heads are made of.
mud
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LOL, thanks for the correction!.... and by the way you figured it out! I am Margos husband!!
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Well, there you go. This is how one learns to distrust everything you say. One minute full of benevolent bullshit and the next defending that bs to the hilt and the next laughing at trying to pull a fast one.
I am so sorry that you have invaded Margo's safe place and disrespected everyone else here as well. A liar is worse than a thief I have heard and now I believe it.
Your tee hee hee attitude is chilling.
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LOL, thanks for the correction!.... and by the way you figured it out! I am Margos husband!!
::shaking head::
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Margo,
I'm very sorry for you and what you are dealing with. My exh was an n sex addict. He never wanted to have sex with me, but chose to watch pornography and have sex with himself, then lie to me (for 20+ years) about his reasons for not being interested in me. I did not learn of all of this until after I found out he was having an affair with a married woman and had moved out to pursue that relationship.
He presented himself as a very kind, compassionate, empathic man, who always placed the feelings of others above his own. After he left home, his true colors came out and I found out that he was nothing more than a lying, cheating, pathetic scumbag who absolutely had no empathy whatsoever. It was the therapist who was seeing us as a couple for six weeks and eventually me alone for 2 more years, who identified him as one of the worst n's he had ever encountered.
Your h has shown his true colors here and you need to start protecting yourself. I would absolutely not consider any kind of collaborative divorce--as he will do his best to screw you. Get the best divorce attorney you can afford (the sooner the better), and start figuring out your rights. I strongly advise you to not do any negotiating with your h on your own. Have your attorney handle all of that. You cannot trust your h to be honest, or do anything in your best interest. I would also consider hiring a forensic accountant to look into his financial information. I had to do all of this in order to get a fair settlement. It is expensive, but worth it in the end to protect the future of yourself and your children. My ex still was able to hide assets, with the help of his father, but for the most part, I am happy with how I came out of the whole experience financially (emotionally is another whole issue). But it is much easier to get through the emotional devastation, if you have enough money to get by. If you are not currently in therapy (sorry if I missed that information), I would strongly recommend that as well.
Sex addictions rarely are healed, and n's are rarely healed. I'm sorry, but that is the truth of the matter. Please consider doing the best thing for yourself and leave your current situation. There really can be a good life after you get past all of it (and it does take awhile), if you take good care of yourself and your children.
All the best,
Brigid