Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: spyralle on December 30, 2006, 06:58:53 AM
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Hi All.
Just thought I'd share the latest response from my N mum... I just found out my daughter is pregnant a few weeks ago. She is 21 and it is really not what I would have wished for her, but she is very happy despite the fact that she has not really thought it through.. I will be there to support her when she needs me and will try to do my best to make it a little easier without interfering.
You see I was pregnant when I was 21 too.. N mum had me married within six weeks to a man who went on to hit me sleep with all my friends blah blah you know the story. Every thing I did with my baby she used to look at me askance. Eg. Why was I not potty training her from birth. Everyone knew that if you held a new born baby over the potty every so often they would realise what it was for!!!! Why was I not calling her Hayley. N mum loved the name Hayley... She then started calling my daughter Hayley for a day. I could go on forever on that one
But I guess the point I am trying to get to is when I told her that my daughter is pregnant.
Nmum... Well I didn't expect anything else
Me....... What do you mean
Nmum..... Well it is clearly the environment she has grown up in..
Me.......... But I was pregnant at 21 mum. So it must have been the environment I grew up in
Nmum.............................................Sharp intake of breath..................................................
Nmum......You.........are different........!!!!!!!...It was in your genes!!!
I give up!!!
Spyralle x
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Good one, Spyralle. Keep coming back with rational responses when she pulls this stuff.
That will keep you on solid ground and make it obvious who has the problem.... that's not for the N's sake, it's for yours, they are masters of confusion and bafflement.
Best of luck to you and your daughter and the new baby.
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Spyrelle,
Well, good to see that she is true to form!!!!!!!!!!!! You sound very clear and loving to your daughter, wish I had a Mother like that. As for your mother............well, once I read where there is confusion there is always abuse.
xx
axa
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I'm also wondering if she's trying to control her own hissy-fit at the prospect of being called "Great-Grandma". I've encountered some N's who flat out REFUSE to be called "Grandmother" by their own grandchildren because they think it "tarnishes their young image". (GIMME A BREAK! :roll:) Talk about looking a "gift horse in the mouth" given that children are precious gifts on loan to us, never a possession to be used and abused on a selfish whim. I still wish my own late Nmother got that message that I tried to tell her several times before she died.
Bones
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Oh, that 'image' thing.
Is that the Ns' favorite word, or what? :roll:
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Well there is more to this than meets the eye I think. My nmum has never been able to control my daughter who simply does not like her!!
From an early age she was always trying to get in the middle of me and my daughter and if we ever had an argument when she was around she would look positively smug about it. When my partner died my daughter was in Spain (where my nmum lives)... K..my daughter says that my nmum paraded her in floods of tears around the neighbours houses.. To create maximum drama I guess.
As K grew up my nmum would look at her wistfully and ask where her lovely baby girl had gone. Like she wasn't up to scratch any more. I knew that feeling well of being a disappointment. K didn't have to put up with it though. This was not her mother. My nmum hated that and now takes every opportunity to try and make me believe that my daughter has a dark side. On Christmas day we rang her in Spain. Katie had not spoken to her in months and of course she got all my nmum's woefullness about the baby situation. Then nmum told K a story about how she had hung a nude picture in her bathroom (Is this sounding crazy enough yet???) When I got back on the phone nmum said. Right, Now you ask K about the story I just told her and let's see how much she retained!!!
I don't think she has even asked how K is doing...
Axa you mentioned confusion and abuse. It was always that double bind stuff with my mother... Put me down then tell me that no one could love me more than she did. Tell me I was the "lowest of the low" then do big public shows of affection. She told me sex was a sin and women were dirty receivers for men....!!! then she would wear see through stuff and flirt with the insurance man the windowcleaner etc...... I had no clue then and not much more now... I don't even know what I like..
Spyralle x
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Oh Spy,
It sure feels as though you know what you don't like.
I don't like your mother either. Igggggghhhhhh.
I do like Katie's spunk, which I bet she inherited from you. (Only a spunky woman would give that priceless response you did: oh, must've been the environment I grew up in...) BRAVO. :)
I hope you'll just dig in and recognize that you have got a spunky daughter who is eager to love her own child and who clearly considers you part of their lives. I hope this is a chance for you to just take pure simple JOY in being a grandmother and put YOURSELF and KATIE and THE BABY above NMum.
Always and forevermore. Don't let her in. Don't let her in to manipulate and tarnish and ruin the joy.
She's had her turn. And she BLEW it.
I think you can find great happiness as a grandmother, because you'll be a wonderful one.
As to knowing what you like? If you couldn't find out before, now it is your time to go exploring.
Exploring life, and yourself. You can do it. Even if you're not sure what you'll find, there's a very interesting woman in there.
Hugs,
Hops
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Spyralle,
Some of my pregnancy/baby stories...
I went out without my wedding band on while pregnant. My mother complained that people would think I was an unwed mother.
She constantly told me how she only gained 11 pounds while pregnant (she also smoked and drank).
My son would have tantrums from time to time. She thought I should "take him to a doctor to see what was wrong with him."
She wanted him to call my dad "Pap-pap." It made me shudder as I know she wanted it after her abusive grandfather. I didn't say anything, bit my tongue. My father also bit his tongue and I could see him cringe. Fortunately, my son never did pick up the habit.
Those are just some I can remember which really annoyed me. Just ignore her and her nastiness if possible. I know it must already be tough to help your daughter start planning her future and what is best now that she will have a little one. The baby is lucky to have a mother who is pleased to have him and a grandmother who will also adore him.
Lots of love,
beth
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edit
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GAG?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ohh thank you, CB.
There is nothing more healing than the alternate fantasy...
if only I had taught my D to call her Gaggy.
(My D loves wordplay...)
Hops
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spyralle,
"Put me down and then have a show of public affection".....AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh XN XN. Stick the knife in then walk down the street with his arm around me, holding onto me as if I was the most precious thing in his life. God they make me sick. At least she lives in Spain so you don't have to engage with her in person too often.......... count your blessings!!!. Well done Katie.
Axa
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Hee hee :lol: :lol:
Beth, your story made me think of one about my mom.
She wanted a flashier name from her grandkids than Grandma, so she tried to teach my daughter to say "Grandy". She thought it would be cute (does have a bit of a narcissistic ring: GRAND-y).
Anyway, she tried and tried, but my daughter's version of Grandy was GAG. A few days of being called GAG and we went back to Grandma.
CB
:lol: :lol: :lol: Out of the mouths of babes!!! :lol: :lol:
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Ha ha ha ha ha..... GAG!!!!!!! That was very funny CB.. My Mother would be HORRIFIED at that!!!
Aw Hops.... Thanks for that. I hope I can be interesting. Gonna try and have a new years resolution to do stuff for me and not stuff that other people like... Be weird though cos I haven't got the faintest what'll make me happy. I always thought it would be a man, but they have just caused me nothing but pain and despair and I cannot let my self esteem get gound into the dirt any more..
Axa... me too... I hate that massively (Hey look at me I have found something I clearly hate!!) Leaves you so confused that yo don't know which way is up..
Oh Beth your mother sounds just like mine.... You went without a wedding band... I went out without a wonderbra on... My mother was horrified and said she didn't want people to know she had a flat chested daughter!!!!!!!!! The shame......!!!!! She didn't speak to me for a year afterward..
Spyralle x
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Oh Spyralle, I can't have a flat chested friend. I am sorry. Ha ha ha ha Unbelievable!!!! Mine used to chase me around the house trying to get me to put on lipstick. It was just a control thing. It was so assinine. She does it to my dad with his hair. No matter what he does, she goes over and fixes it. I think she just loves the negative reaction she gets from things like that.
GAG. HA HA HA . I laughed out loud. Truly. How wonderful. Amazing how fast they drop things when they don't go their way.
Thanks for the great stories!!!!
Love, Beth
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How funny Beth,
Mine chased me round her house with a blusher brush just a few weeks ago!!!!! She was insisting that blusher would change my life... Would I be the perfect daughter in blusher and a wonderbra do you think??
Spyralle x
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Mine chased me round her house with a blusher brush just a few weeks ago!!!!! She was insisting that blusher would change my life... Would I be the perfect daughter in blusher and a wonderbra do you think??
Spyralle x
What a thread! I can't believe how alike they are, still amazes me!
A few funnys I can think of... Once I mentioned to my N sister excuse how I look, (ya know no makeup, hair done etc.) she said you always look like that! Oh thanks for reminding me that my beauty routine has fallen to the way side after I had three young children to care for....I was comfortable :)
I'm fair skinned my other five siblings had an olive compextion and got a great tan just walking out the door. They use to tell me it was o.k. that I didn't get color, actually felt bad for me? I thought I was fine just they way I was, it didn't make me feel good to stick out but I new deep inside what type of people talk to others in such a way? Didn't know at the time, N's!!!
About pregnancy stories. One sister N couldn't wait to come to me, corner me (we actually worked together in a family business years ago..YIKES) to share the news she heard...."I just thought you should know because I can't sleep but mothers who breastfeed have a higher rate of KILLING their babies."
Of course I was the first in the family to decide to breastfeed, I did it anyway with NO SUPPORT.
She also told me, which I have heard before that I shouldn't buy anything for the baby to be it will cause a miscarriage. I lost two at the time.
When I had my newborn she wanted me to have coffee with her so she snarled at me to put they baby in her bed with a rattle, she couldn't hold a rattle? As she went on to say the baby doesn't want to just look at YOU she wants to see the WORLD put her down............she was only weeks old...how pathetic...she was jealous.
Funny with her grandchildren all these rules went out the window.
Not so Funny............She along with my other N pressured me into an abortion. My brother noticed I had a small tummy and told on me. I remember my mother shaking because she felt my older sisters were going to kill her if she didn't take care of this immediately.
I was silenced from shame, I was told that day I was going only to be checked. Not true, as my Dad and Sister N sat in the waiting room I was council ed for a few minutes, asked is this what I want? I felt like I had no voice, confused, scared to death that Sister N was outside WAITING. I said, "YES". And my baby was taken from me right there with in a half hour.
On the ride home N sister is so happy and wants to stop at her favorite sandwich shop, they did and ate, while I sat alone quietly in the back seat. It was never, ever brought up again.
I carry the wait of my sin, I have confessed but still worry I will not be welcomed in heaven on my low days. Yet, deep down I believe the God I believe in will be merciful. It's such an individual decision, a decision I was never given to make. I was shy of 18.
On a much happier note........Congratulations spyrelle and your sweet daughter, may joy of new life engulf you with love and excitement. Bless you for being such a selfless, giving, supporting mother. seasons
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Oh seasons,
I am so sorry for you and losing your baby. My mother also made it clear to me as a young adult that she would have me get an abortion if I ever got pregnant. I swear she was just salivating and waiting for it to happen... to prove I was "bad?" When I was in college and together witht he boyfriend that she wanted for me (because he was rich) and I was depressed and lonely (gee I wonder why), I gained some weight and seemed down. She took me out and parked the car and said, "I know what's wrong with you. You're pregnant." I was like, "Huh????" I can't tell you how many comments she made to me of various natures that had to do with my supposed sexual behavior. Ridiculous things.
God will never be angry at you for a chioce you didn't make.
Thank you for sharing a difficult story with us. And put on a little mascara. You'll look better (You too spyralle).
((((((((((((((((seasons)))))))))
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It never ceases to amaze me about how much Nparents focus on labeling us daughters in every evil, sexual way they can invent. I've learned later that this is considered covert sexual abuse. My own Nmother called me a "whore" at every opportunity and took great glee in spreading this "manure" everywhere she went.
Bones
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Bones,
My NMom used to call me an "ugly whore" I am neither but it took me a long time to know this.
I look back on photographs of myself when I was younger and I was a nice attractive young woman whereas all I knew back then was how ugly and vile I was. What a terrible legacy. I am sure this is part of the reasons I sold myself so short having relationships with abusive Ns. It took me such a long time to recognise that I am ok. I am neither perfect nor terrible, but I am ok. Hard, painful work but it is paying off. Wish I knew then what I know now but that is the way it is. I guess I am lucky that I have moved from the terrible image I had of myself to a more realistic view.
Again this abuse was done in the name of love. I am shaking my head as I write this, how Ns can justify their abuse by trying to destroy others......... thank God for therapy.
axa
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When I look back on the relationship between me and my Nmom, I don't recall her EVER saying that she loved me. One day, she nonchalantly commented that she preferred to abort me because only one child existed for her....my Nbrother. Nice message for an Nmother to tell an adolescent: "I wish you were dead, have a nice day."
Bones
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What kind words, bone. My God, do they hear themselves????
My mother told me she didn't care if I slept with every man in town. I was about 14, had never even been kissed and she was mad about something with a curling iron I think. She also called me a slut with no respect for my body because I wanted to go to a dance with a black boy. I had a burn on my neck, it was so awful looking and embarrassing (it had come from acid on a lime peel of all things... from HER drink) when I was about 12 or 13. She asked my dad if he thought it was really a hickey of some sort. I remember him getting very angry with her.
Nothing like a great mother figure, eh?
Love, Beth
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Oh ye gods Seasons, Bones, Axa, Beth...
How dare they. How dare they not be thankful for the gift of a precious daughter.
This breaks my heart to read these stories.
I am just a middle-aged fool but I would adopt the girls in you in a heartbeat,
and love you so every day, and tell you over and over how grateful and glad I was
to see your shining eyes and hear about your day.
PFAGHH. These were not mothers. THEY were the accidents.
And here you four are. So beautiful, so determined, and so whole.
Hops
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What kind words, bone. My God, do they hear themselves????
My mother told me she didn't care if I slept with every man in town. I was about 14, had never even been kissed and she was mad about something with a curling iron I think. She also called me a slut with no respect for my body because I wanted to go to a dance with a black boy. I had a burn on my neck, it was so awful looking and embarrassing (it had come from acid on a lime peel of all things... from HER drink) when I was about 12 or 13. She asked my dad if he thought it was really a hickey of some sort. I remember him getting very angry with her.
Nothing like a great mother figure, eh?
Love, Beth
Both of our mothers were SICK and TWISTED! I admit that I HATE mine!
Bones
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Oh ye gods Seasons, Bones, Axa, Beth...
How dare they. How dare they not be thankful for the gift of a precious daughter.
This breaks my heart to read these stories.
I am just a middle-aged fool but I would adopt the girls in you in a heartbeat,
and love you so every day, and tell you over and over how grateful and glad I was
to see your shining eyes and hear about your day.
PFAGHH. These were not mothers. THEY were the accidents.
And here you four are. So beautiful, so determined, and so whole.
Hops
Thanks, Hops!
Bones
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((((((((((((((seasons)))))))))))))))))))))) you will be sooo welcome in heaven. In fact youu will probaly have a red carpet all the way up there xxxxxxxxxx
(((((((((((((bones, axa, beth)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I feel like we all had the same mother
((((((((((((hops))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) for being you..
What is it about Nmothers and sex and boys and self image and all that stuff that is so very important when we were teenagers. I can remember when I started my periods.. It was awful. I got it all wrong and was ashamed to ask.. My nmum refers to it as 'being unwell'. When my daughter started hers we celebrated the fact that she was becoming a woman.. Nmum caught me kissing a boy once. She nearly had a nervous breakdown. It was like the end of the world had come.. I was 17..
When I was 20 she read my diary (Aregular occurance) I had been thinking of going on the pill... Oh my God all hell broke loose she tore it into shreds.. All her hair was standing on end.. She said I was going to put her in a mental hospital.. I had to live in my bedroom for a week...
She hated every boyfriend I had.. When I grew to dislike them too she would say.... oh no he was lovely..
I had such low self esteem.. I though I was ugly.. I still do. Axa... You really struck a chord with me. I did exactly the same thing and looked back on pictures of myself when I was young. I was like a little blonde fairy.. yet a felt big and clumsy and ugly. Now I feel I am old and big and clumsy and ugly... I can never put my hair up because nmum said it looked awful.. I have a real problem wearing dresses... nmum said I looked awfull in anything but jeans.. She said when I was in Spain that my relationships have never worked because I didn't make the most of myself..
I feel like my life has been wasted. How the hell do you find self esteem.. where do you get it from???????????
Spyralle x
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Dear Spy,
I believe your life has not been wasted.
I believe your mother's opportunity for motherhood was.
I think you can find self-esteem in working with abandoned or abused animals.
Then lonely elderly.
Volunteer as a Literacy Tutor for an adult who can't read.
I think those things will remind you who you really are.
Deep inside, esteem is a natural function, like breathing. It's inherent. It's still in there.
Once you stop all influence of your mother in your life, I think it will come more easily.
You're smart enough to know it's deserved.
The only way to know how feeling self-esteem feels is to practice it, learn this way of thinking, just as if you were learning to read music and play the piano.
You can do it. It's about self-talk. When you have a positive phrase that represents your goal, in present tense, you can say it, over and over and over, to yourself.
At first you may want to stop because it feels like "a lie". Override that and do it anyway.
Keep at it and that feeling becomes real. But you need to fake it first. And that's okay.
Hops
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((((((((((((((seasons)))))))))))))))))))))) you will be sooo welcome in heaven. In fact youu will probaly have a red carpet all the way up there xxxxxxxxxx
(((((((((((((bones, axa, beth)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I feel like we all had the same mother
((((((((((((hops))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) for being you..
What is it about Nmothers and sex and boys and self image and all that stuff that is so very important when we were teenagers. I can remember when I started my periods.. It was awful. I got it all wrong and was ashamed to ask.. My nmum refers to it as 'being unwell'. When my daughter started hers we celebrated the fact that she was becoming a woman.. Nmum caught me kissing a boy once. She nearly had a nervous breakdown. It was like the end of the world had come.. I was 17..
When I was 20 she read my diary (Aregular occurance) I had been thinking of going on the pill... Oh my God all hell broke loose she tore it into shreds.. All her hair was standing on end.. She said I was going to put her in a mental hospital.. I had to live in my bedroom for a week...
She hated every boyfriend I had.. When I grew to dislike them too she would say.... oh no he was lovely..
I had such low self esteem.. I though I was ugly.. I still do. Axa... You really struck a chord with me. I did exactly the same thing and looked back on pictures of myself when I was young. I was like a little blonde fairy.. yet a felt big and clumsy and ugly. Now I feel I am old and big and clumsy and ugly... I can never put my hair up because nmum said it looked awful.. I have a real problem wearing dresses... nmum said I looked awfull in anything but jeans.. She said when I was in Spain that my relationships have never worked because I didn't make the most of myself..
I feel like my life has been wasted. How the hell do you find self esteem.. where do you get it from???????????
Spyralle x
(((((((((((((((((((((((((Spyralle)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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Sweet Seasons,
What you have been through is just so sad. My heart goes out to that poor 18 year old girl. The thoughtlessness and ignorance of your Ns was beyond words. I am sure there is a place for you in heaven. One time when XN and I had an accident in bed and I mentioned the risk of pregnancy he told me You can always get rid of it. What cold callous creatures they are.
xxxxxxxxxx
Hops enjoy church, bit of a buddist myself, well more like a wanna be buddist!!!
xx
axa
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Thanks for that Hops. I've never managed to get past the stage where I think it's a lie so I obviously have to persevere..
It's interesting what you say about finding self esteem in working with the needy. I've been doing that for most of my career.. addicts, homeles, eating disorders, prisoners... It's funny, when I look back now all my different types of clients have reflected a part of me... I am in a job now where I have no client contact and though on the one hand it is a great experience I miss that feeling of making a small difference in someone's life..
I don't know if you remember but my partner (before the horrendous ex N) died of Cardiomyopathy.. I have just registered to do voluntary woork with partners and parents who have suffered a loss of a loved one through this awful disease..
See even talking to you about that now I feel like a fraud and I don't know why. When I get upset I feel like a fake too.. It's bizzare. I can't ever acknowledge that my feelings are real. I always feel like I am looking for attention. I think it's because when I was a child I used to cry a lot. My family used to mimic me. I would sit in my bedroom and cry louder and louder hoping that someone would come and make it ok, but it was like my tears were worth nothing to them.... I could not really be upset.. I know I am rambling a bit I am just trying to work it out I guess....
Axa.. I had a similar experience. When I thought I was pregnant ex N said.... If you have it I will just resent it....!!!!!!!! Aren't they lovely!
Spyralle x
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self esteem in working with the needy. I've been doing that for most of my career.. addicts, homeles, eating disorders, prisoners...
I miss that feeling of making a small difference in someone's life..
I have just registered to do voluntary woork with partners and parents who have suffered a loss of a loved one through this awful disease..
Spy...
What kind of person does this? Pretend it's not you.
Pretend you're just an observer, and you learn these things about this person.
What kind of person is she?
Hops
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Thanks for that Hops. I've never managed to get past the stage where I think it's a lie so I obviously have to persevere..
It's interesting what you say about finding self esteem in working with the needy. I've been doing that for most of my career.. addicts, homeles, eating disorders, prisoners... It's funny, when I look back now all my different types of clients have reflected a part of me... I am in a job now where I have no client contact and though on the one hand it is a great experience I miss that feeling of making a small difference in someone's life..
I don't know if you remember but my partner (before the horrendous ex N) died of Cardiomyopathy.. I have just registered to do voluntary woork with partners and parents who have suffered a loss of a loved one through this awful disease..
See even talking to you about that now I feel like a fraud and I don't know why. When I get upset I feel like a fake too.. It's bizzare. I can't ever acknowledge that my feelings are real. I always feel like I am looking for attention. I think it's because when I was a child I used to cry a lot. My family used to mimic me. I would sit in my bedroom and cry louder and louder hoping that someone would come and make it ok, but it was like my tears were worth nothing to them.... I could not really be upset.. I know I am rambling a bit I am just trying to work it out I guess....
Axa.. I had a similar experience. When I thought I was pregnant ex N said.... If you have it I will just resent it....!!!!!!!! Aren't they lovely!
Spyralle x
When Ns say stuff like that, it really FROSTS me!!!! I feel that Ns deserve a special place to rot in hell!
Bones
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Just on a good note, my daughter came round to stay the night last night. I cooked her dinner and ran her a bath and then we cuddled up on the sofa and watched a scary movie. She told me yesterday how much she appreciates what I have done for her and how much she loves me and I feel like I have my little girl back again after the turbulence of her teenage years... I love her so much
Just wanted to say that
Spyralle x
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He Spyralle,
Weeping here. Spent all of my childhood crying. My NMom used to call me "sore eyes" as my eyes were always so red. I tore out some of my eyelashes as a child from rubbing my eyes and they never grew back again. Really feel the sadness of that time right now.
I am so glad for you and your daughter, makes me think of how much I miss my lovely girl, she would have been 20 this month.
Thanks for sharing this and allowing some of my tears out.
axa
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((((((((((((((((Axa)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Now I am weeping too for you and for me and just for everything, which is a good thing cos I have been really angry all day. I cried throughout my chilhood too.. cos I cried all the time no one ever came in fact they used to mimic me.. All I wanted was for someone to stroke my hair and tell me I was ok and special
So I just want to say Axa... You are OK and very very special..
Spyralle xxx
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(((((((((((((((((((((((axa))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Spyralle))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Bones
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axa,
May I ask what happened to your daughter? Please share only if you feel comfortable.
Spyralle, that is so lovely. My kids are still small and so far I am still adored. I am eating it up while I have it. But one thing I have also learned is that although we will of course distance from one another(part of growing) not all kids need to hate their parents. My parents told me it was normal to hate your parents and I don't believe that is true. I have friends who have always loved their parents, even through the troubled times.
Love, Beth