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Hi all
You are such a great bunch of loving people. You appear to understand, at least part of, what happened to me, or what I made happen to myself, or why I am the way I am….
Now IRL, this point would be where I would back off the relationship because someone (everyone) would know all the wrong things I had done. I actually sabotaged the relationships, at times. This is what AvPDs do and why I was thusly diagnosed—the main reason…..out of humiliation, embarrassment, fear of that person telling everyone he/she met ….
I, too, think of myself as a survivor, but I don’t want to have to survive one more traumatic thing. I have had enough, so I have put myself into a safer position of semi-solitude!
What happens, happens and cannot be undone. I tend to believe that all this happened to me for a reason, but I sure don’t know the reason, unless it was to learn about NPD and finally figure out, at this age, that my father was a raging N.
As I said, now that you know, this is to say that this is the point I would back off and hide from those who knew.
Help?
Xx
Izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/flwline2.gif)
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Hey Izzy,
This is a really safe place to practice being "known". You can avoid if you want to...you always have that choice. But you might as well hang around.
Would it help to change the subject? Maybe not have anybody ask followup questions until you say you're willing?
How did you paste that pretty image into your post? I am a Luddite, so you'd have to spell it out as: I clicked this, and then selected that, etc.
It looks cool.
(Our secrets are not secrets, imo, unless we hold onto shame about our experiences. Hope you'll drop-kick shame to the curb.)
Hops
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Izzy,
I wish I knew how to encourage you at this point. Withdrawal is my favorite coping mechanism as well. It feels so familiar and warm and safe. Sometimes I do it just to show myself that I still can. :(
But the warmness and the safeness is just an illusion. Withdrawal is really lonely, and cold, and dark. It puts you behind a wall and shuts out the people who care for you. You don't really want to be there. It's just that, having shown us who you really are, it feels like a safe option.
I hope you will stay here in the sunlight. Sure, it shows everything--can't hide much in the sunlight--but it is so very warm on your upturned face!
We would miss you if you hid away.
CB
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thank you Hops and CB
I want to stay, hang around, I want to know how to get past this point. How to lose the shame.
Yes, withdrawal can be cold and lonely. I don't feel that, though, now in my safe place with no one hanging around me.
I ask myself what I might be denying--- ??
Am I a tough nut to crack, since I have been so 'mauled in life', as seastorm put it.
I can say that have so few emotions, that nothing can make me jump for joy and nothing can make me cry!
Ask away and I will try to anwer unless the answer is buried so deep that I don't know it!
Love
Izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/WaterFall.jpg)
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Hopalong,
Click on the insert image icon and up will pop [ img][ /img ] I had to insert spaces for this to show--don't change what pops up!
The image must be on the Net
So you type the URL in between [ img]...........[ /img] I had to insert spaces for this to show--don't change what pops up!
Your url would read http://www.msn.com/pictures.name
....the logo I see above is smflogo.gif
Good Luck :lol:
Izzy
......am trying to capitalize assets for year end!--- I work odd hours, but do sleep in.
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Thank you so much Izzy! I never realized that images had to be on the Net. Embedded images, I mean, I think I mean if that's the right term...
And I 'get' weird hours. I do the same sometimes.
I will find the right image soon just for you!
gotta rush, I'm late as ever...
Hops
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I found this on SHAME:
Where does shame come from? Shame often arises, as you can see from the above stories, in the context of a dysfunctional family. The parents are generally highly critical and demeaning, offering little or no positive feedback or support of the child's expressiveness, creativity, and emotions. The child is repeatedly ridiculed and humiliated, by the family and often by his or her peers. There may be a history of abandonment, physical or sexual abuse, and broken promises. The healthy needs for love and acceptance are usually unmet, resulting often in addictions in later life. The family settings, as in all three stories above, are usually filled with guilt and a sense that the person is inherently bad. As a result, the person feels helpless, powerless, worthless, and, overall, less than human. There is a profound feeling of being undeserving of anything better and of being incapable of attracting loving, caring partners, which often dooms the person to a life of unhappiness, suffering, and self-condemnation. Having been profoundly criticized throughout one's childhood usually leads to an exaggerated striving for perfection. In Carol's case, for example, the goal of the perfectionism was to be as thin as possible, even if it killed her, which it almost did.
What is the shame response? There are a number of ways in which a person deals with a shame-inducing environment. It is important first to understand that each of us has a variety of subpersonalities or parts, such as our frightened child, our merciless critic, our tireless pusher, etc. Each of these parts has a common goal-to help us deal with our life circumstances in ways that seem adaptive at the time and allow us to survive. Therefore, all of the following responses to shame are an attempt, successful or not, at coping and healing. One of the most common responses I see is the suppression of emotions, particularly anger. The woman is afraid to make waves for fear of punishment, further guilt-induction, or other repercussions and decides to react to life passively, even invisibly. She is often meek, does not stand up for herself, and is continually taken advantage of by others. She often chooses alcoholic or abusive relationships which she may stay in, even if she is battered or incessantly verbally abused. A second response is dissociation. This is a form of the woman leaving her body, such as in the case of repeated sexual abuse. It's too painful to continue to experience the suffering, so she exits. Another alternative is for the woman to become a child abuser herself,no longer willing to be a victim. Another common reaction is self-punishment in the form of addiction, whether it be to drugs, alcohol, binge eating, anorexia or bulimia, or anything else. Still another response is to convert the pain into physical illness as a form of self-punishment.
How can you overcome shame? Let me say first that we're talking about a pro-found imbalance, usually beginning with childhood. It is usually important to seek some type of supportive, experienced professional help. All of the following tech-niques can be assisted, enhanced, and made more quickly effective by the type of therapist who recognizes the depth of your suffering, is familiar with effective thera-peutic techniques, but also holds you in your perfection, wholeness, and light. I have seen too many clients who have spent four or five years in therapy dredging up all the garbage of their past without feeling that their lives have been signifi- cantly improved or transformed by the insights.
Here are some practical suggestions for releasing shame and embracing love and wholeness. l) Feel your pain. This is an essential step in understanding where you've been and what you've experienced. You need to recognize the suffering that you've felt or you've denied in order to move beyond it. Through hypnosis, for example, it's possible to re-experience old pain in a safe, gentle atmosphere. Once you have truly gotten in touch with your pain, then you can begin to release it, not before. 2) Re- connect with your inner child. If you have experienced deep shame, your inner child has likely been traumatized and terrified. It is extremely beneficial to befriend, nurture, and heal the child within you and to create an atmosphere of safety so that this part of you can experience the freedom and acceptance which it was denied in the past. 3) Learn to love yourself. This is obviously not an overnight process. By surrounding yourself with supportive friends, family members, and professionals who continually validate you for who you are, you will gradually learn to appreciate your talents and positive attributes and eventually learn to embrace yourself as a unique, valuable, and lovable human being. Reading Louise Hay and other such books may be helpful. 4) Integrate your parts. I have found specific techniques such a Voice Dialogue and conscious or hypnotic parts therapy to be of tremendous useful- ness in increasing awareness of the various, often conflict- ing, parts of you with the goal of establishing wholeness and integration. 5) Support groups . It is often comforting and growth-producing to share your pain as well as your insights and awarenesses with others who have also been through similar experiences. Choose a group that both feels comfortable and stimulates your evolution and don't be afraid to leave when you've learned all that you can from it. 6) Finding your spiritual home . Whether it be a l2-step program, a New Thought church, a yoga class, Native Ameri- can healing circle, guru, or your own spirit guide, connect as deeply as possible with Source. There is no better way to heal shame than to recognize the true perfection and purity that you are, to release all that prevents you from being whole, and to embrace the Holy Spirit which fills your being.
Looks like I have a lot of work to keep me busy. Izzy
(http://www.copwt.ca/wheelchair1970.jpg) aged 31
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Good stuff, Izzy. Especially the part about recognizing the true perfection and purity that you are. We all are. That would make a good replacement "tape".
Pennyplant
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Izzy - don't go! We don't know you. You are hidden behind your computer screen. This is definitely the place to try your wings. If you can't take it try swapping your screen name around and reappear in a new creation. Where else can you do that? It's like faking your death, having plastic surgery and coming back to life. Any way - give it a whirl and see if you can get past that old hurdle here on-line. I have actually found that my experiences here in Voicelessness have helped me in "real" life. That's what I love about it. - your friend - Gaining Strength
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Izzy
I have felt not good enough I sometimes feel OK and sometimes I am not thinking of myself and I am really listening to others and I am thinking of PP and the way she can describe an event in her life so well you can feel it or Hops with wisdom and honor and anything for a laff or Beth and her sweetness and Write with deep intense feelings and a closeness to G-d...AND Stormy who has bright rays of thought so you feel like you can understand anything ....well I try....Hi cosmic Portia and mud and rm GS,BONES,CB123,SPY ,axa .TT.sela,seasons and all
and each one different but we all want to share and we are trusting each other to find our way....
((((((((((((((((((((everyone))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Thank you pennyplant, Gaining Strength and moonlight
No GS, I am not leaving but i think anything I post from here on is connected to the Messy life and then when I reach my roadblock.
It would appear the roadblock involves "shame", as you alluded to in a earlier post.
"As a result, the person feels helpless, powerless, worthless, and, overall, less than human. There is a profound feeling of being undeserving of anything better and of being incapable of attracting loving, caring partners, which often dooms the person to a life of unhappiness, suffering, and self-condemnation. Having been profoundly criticized throughout one's childhood usually leads to an exaggerated striving for perfection."
I even posted my photos to see if anyone said I looked less than human. I look at myself as I doddle, comb my hair & say "I am not real" but who would know what a jumble goes on inside my head??
I agree with you moonlight, about the 'characters' you can identify! i just find everyone nice and I feel as though I come across so 'wooden'.
I will hang in here and read, listen and see what grabs me, to further explore, but I do feel like a lost cause....and a phony? for being able to be "little miss sunshiine" with my workmates!
When I was about 18, I asked my roommate, another farm girl in the big city, to look at me in the mirror, then look at me live, and tell me if what she sees is the same........Can you imagine? I didn't believe then or now that I am real or human. (If you go to my other thread you might see this story, again. I have yet to check it out!)
Keep tossing crumbs my way and you never know which one will 'fill me up'
Love
Izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)
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Well Izzy shame has been my middle name for many, many years until very, very recently. I read Bradshaw's book on toxic shame more than any other book. I had notes in the margins from 6 or 7 different years. Each time I read it I saw something different. But the bottom line was that I found he identified and defined toxic shame so well. I knew I had it but he didn't do much for me about moving beyond it. Much of what he recommended involved involving others - a task I was not willing and not really able to do. There wasn't really anyone I knew who was capable or willing to perform the necessary duties. Nonetheless, this past summer I slowly but surely moved past these years of shame and (here's the big one) self-condemnation. There are definitely shadows of both still lurking semi, sub and unconscously but I am able to identify them by their shadow and call them out. You can do it too.
For some reason, I moved from shame into terrible anxiety. I asked and received a prescription to help me deal with that and within two short months I found myself emerging from that terrible spell. I still keep the anti-anxiety meds in my purse but I haven't used them in almost a month.
For me concentrating on conquering the self-condemnation was the way I moved out of shame. Shame itself seemed to spiral out of control when I experienced it unless I forced myself to recognize the self-condemnation component. I realized that I could control the self-condemnation because it was something I was doing to myself. The shame seemed to come from outside of me. So I slowly but surely used a technique of identifying the wretchedness that I felt as shame. Then I "translated" the shame into "self-condemnation" and then I talked myself into overcoming the self-condemnation because it was something that came from me and therefore something I could fight. Maybe you can take some portion of my experience and shape a technique that will help you. I hope so. But most of all I hope you will believe that it can be done. Having hope is a significant first step. I want you to move into having hope. Move out of fear and doubt and at least believe that it can be done. Then work on believing that YOU can do it. That is my wish for you - your friend - Gaining Strength
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Wow, GS, Shame is your middle name too???? You know, I look at a picture, like yours, Izzy, and I see a lovely woman. I think of myself and I think of all the things wrong with me. And I can look at a picture of myself or in the mirror and actually morph the image into my mood... But I don't think of myself as a whole. I can never think that I am overall OK. Instead I think my ankles are awful, my hiar is OK, my hands are ok, but looking older, my stomach is awful, my hips are huge, etc. Thank you Izzy, for another reminder about how we tear ourselves apart when we have been taught this way.
(((((((((((((((((((((((my friends))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Izzy,
When I saw your picture, I immediately thought: OH! She is so BEAUTIFUL!
You really are, you know.
CB
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I thought so too Izzy.
When I was in college and on through my 20s I couldn't even look at myself in the mirror. I could put on makeup and brush my hair with the mirror and yet avoid seeing my whole face. I couldn't bear to see my face.
Rememberin that helps me understand how deep the wounds ran. Deep into my core. I knew that improving my self image and healing would go hand in hand.
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The beauty thing--I get so hung up on that. I have ALWAYS thought that beautiful people had good lives, that everything went their way. So, I see your pictures, Izzy, and I think, she is beautiful and her life did not go easily at all. It was and is hard. I have always wondered, what would my life have been like if I were beautiful? And when people have told me I am pretty or attractive or whatever, I haven't believed it because my life has felt hard to me. Then a few years ago, I saw the surface beauty of myself and it made me feel happy for awhile. But life is still hard. So, I began to think, what good is it then? So, a person is beautiful or pretty or physically attractive. What is that? And what about someone who doesn't fit the standard? What do they do? So many people I have met do not fit the standard yet they seem self-confident and happy and have many friends. I may fit some kind of standard but I don't have all that they have socially.
It is a big puzzle for me. On some level, I want to get away from the need for beauty. On another level, I want to be the best me I can be, including the surface beauty. As much surface beauty as there is. But the insides, that is the real problem. The huger puzzle.
Even with all that going through my mind, I really just liked seeing your pictures, Izzy, and your myspace pictures, Beth. It's another piece of the pie, I guess. We have to share ourselves and be open in order for others to want to know us. I have such a hard time with that. Such a struggle. Sometimes I think I share too much. Other times, most times, I don't share enough. Just fear, I guess. Fear of pain, fear of loss. That's basically it.
I have tried to attach a picture of me at my new work assignment but it didn't work as the file was too large. One of these days I'll learn more about computers...
Pennyplant
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I am always afraid people will see through me... to something that is wrong inside me. I feel that if I paint the outside as good and happy (and pretty when I can) then they won't see the fear and the "bad" me. That is why I am afraid to go to the doctor. I am afraid he/she will know just from looking at me that I am not being "perfect" whatever that means. I am not sure what I'd have to do to be the perfect that is in my mind. maybe live on tofu and beans and do yoga all day in between running through fields of flowers. But then I would be flatulent and not much of a contributor to society. See my quandry????
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Beth,
Your comment about the doctor hit home! I always feel like going to the doctor is some kind of exam. Like I can't go until I know I'll get a good "score"--I'll go when I lose a few pounds, quit using real butter instead of olive oil, exercise 1/2 hour each day. How weird! I don't know why I do that.
CB
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That is EXACTLY what I mean, CB. And I won't ask for help until I am dying... I wouldn't go to AA for help with my drinking because I kept saying if I got a few weeks under my belt then I would go so I wouldn't be embarrassed about being new... So dumb. They are here to help us and I can't accept that.
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Izzy
,I even posted my photos to see if anyone said I looked less than human. I look at myself as I doddle, comb my hair & say "I am not real" but who would know what a jumble goes on inside my head??
Thank you for sharing you with us. My first thoughts, how lovely you are. Besides your natural beauty their was a softness about you.... shining through. I felt warm, thats a nice feeling to have when you look at someone. You were real to me.
((Izzy)) Thank you for sharing the "shame" with us. That has been a huge obstacle for me also....shame....go away.
much love and hope for your healing journey of spirit and mind......seasons
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Hello pennyplant
And gratitude
And CB
And seasons
Thank you all for your comments. Yes, PP, (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)we generally think the beautiful people have it made. We generally think the rich people have it made. Yet it always comes down to what is on the INSIDE, and it’s what is inside that shines through to make us beautiful. I posted that earlier in a post somewhere that I could see something in other girls that I felt I didn’t have and that was the inner beauty shining through.
I can see that in you Beth, (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)in your myspace photo, but you would have a problem with all those beans. I laughed!....but the inner beauty would still be there.
Seasons (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)it was from Beth that the word SHAME hit home and then in another post of hers, SELF-CONDEMNATION. I really need to hear these words thrown out and see which ones stick to me. It is very much the truth that I don’t feel real.
I had to ponder what my reply would be regarding comments on my photos, this one and the one on the other thread of me at 66. I said it was all done with smoke and mirrors and it’s amazing what one can do with a “makeover”—even if it is home grown. You’ve seen the makeovers on TV? They are so CHANGED.
In actuality, my face is blank. I can paint any picture on it that I want, so in comes makeup to paint in over the invisible eyebrows and eyelashes. I have a very high forehead and my hairline in set back. Also my head is shaped like an egg, so I style my hair to offset the flaws, wearing bangs, always, and hair down the side of my face and I poof up a bunch at the crown to offset the flatness. So now I have a hurt and painful persona that looks acceptable in public.
Now I am left with a face that ”isn’t mine” and all the disorders inside.
So on top of it all, I feel like a phony.
Oh real story! I never removed my eyebrows for overnight in case I died in my sleep. When my daughter was born, the damned nurses slopped off my makeup with those damp facecloths and there I was, naked for all to see. Then I was taken back to my room and I grabbed my case and applied makeup and combed my hair, that had been so messed out of control and turned it into like a French roll? Well the nurse came to bring me my baby then started to back out of the room, saying. ”I’m sorry, I was looking for Mrs. T.” I said I was she and she said she hadn’t even recognized me. There you go!!
Love
izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)
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To everyone,
I began this thread wondering if I could continue, if people could dig into their experiences and throw out anything to be of help, so I could find a route to take to healing whatever is stuck within me.
I am glad I am still here. I feel hopeful
Thank you, all(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/flwline2.gif)
This doesn't mean The End, just a thank you for throwing me ideas.
Izzy
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Hi Izzy,
I think feeling shame is accepting broken unimaginative people's definition of who you are.
One of the main things I think about narcissists is that they are boring.
Even death destruction trashing a young spirit being brutal being angry all the time recreational criticizing...
All of those, when my spirit looks at them honestly, are boring.
What brings meaning to my life is honesty and creativity.
I think you are very honest and creative and I also think that something is bugging you about the definiion of yourself that you've accepted. I am wondering if you might be getting irritated with it?
I'm really glad you're here and hope you post and post and post as the shell perhaps cracks a little.
(That kind of cracking is a good thing, not a crazy thing.)
Hops
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Very good Hops
I also think that something is bugging you about the definition of yourself that you've accepted. I am wondering if you might be getting irritated with it?
This very well could be true and I really need to know that "unknown thing".
They talk about peeling back the layers, one by one--well I think one sledgehammer might do it! IT is the "something wrong with me" that I've thought of since my teens.
I am resentful of my parents' way of raising me to know nothing--and of my sibs taunting me. With 2 older sisters, I never even learned anything about what they were doing, as when they got their periods. I knew something was afoot and I had to sneak into their bedroom, snoop under the mattress to find a booklet from Kotex and I finally knew what was ahead for me. I snooped in their closet and saw the box of Kotex. I suppose I am ashamed of snooping, but that was the only way , sometimes, to find out things.
You see, I really dislike all these memories and having (feeling i have..) to go back to sort out the ones that could mean something that might "crack my shell".
............as long as anyone thinks of something and pitches it at me........
love
Izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/tazz.gif)
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I think you're brave, Izzy.
Why not start with a simple: "I am brave", said quietly to yourself several times a day until you believe it.
(You can argue, you can not feel it at all, but just keep saying it.)
One book that blew my mind and changed my life (now out of print but someone could find it) is called The Wisdom of Your Subconscious Mind.
Hops
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Izzy,
You area sensitive and darling girl. I can say this because I am a lot older than you. You are sooooo creative and curious and investigative.
And.... You are perfect just the way you are. I like what you say and it is not crap at all. Somewhere you said that.
You have lots of humanity in you and to me that is success.
Keep pouring out what is in your heart. You are sharing and that is a gift to all of us. For me anyway.
I know that part of me that is so ashamed and humiliated. It burns at my soul and makes me want to disappear. But for all of us who feel disappeared it is helpful to hear that someone feels that way too. It helps a lot.
Lots of love to you,
Sea storm
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(((Hiya Hops)))
I often tell myself I am a survivor—does that also mean I feel I am brave? I think I can handle anything that comes my way, except estrangement from my daughter—and handle it with grace under pressure, as long as I am dealing with a stranger who doesn’t know my story.
One of the Co-Treasurers for me is a Chartered Accountant. He knows it all and Dr. Cr. and the crazy way a Dr can be a + and Cr can be a - (minus). At first he scared me as I am a high school graduate only and the rest is “I learned it on the job, or I taught myself”. George was always so stern looking and now after 1½ years I have him on my side and he’s even cracking jokes, being more outgoing with me, telling me that if I hadn’t sent him that certain file, he “would have thought he was going insane, so thank you.” This is an example of my communication with him, by phone or email only.
I really need for people to like and appreciate me, just for who I am, without my baggage.
The people who don’t fit that category are my siblings and my daughter.
I’m feeling perky and am hopeful!
((((seasons)))
You cannot be older than I. I am the Grandma of the Board! 67….. 68 in April: Taurus: stubborn and bull-headed, practical and persistent.
This is the best Board I have found on the Net and thank you for your good words. We all must realize that no one is here just for the fun of it. We are here because we have a problem and require some feedback.
I have learned a lot in the few short days I have been here. I have had words like ‘shame’ and ‘self-condemnation’ thrown out to me and that gives me another path to follow to put the pieces together.
This seems to be the safest place to share it all, right to the nitty-gritty and somewhere in someone’s story, will be something that will help another. I see that.
You and your N. Gee. My daughter and her N: me and my P/N. Anyone who has lived/dealt with one can just know the crazymaking that takes place, the horrors of being reduced to a babbling idiot because the N is always right and can talk the hind legs off a horse.
It took me about 3 years to get over that mess, but I still had baggage from earlier---likely what made me ‘available to an N’.
You have been so understanding since I came on board and I thank you.
Love to both
Izzy
(http://www.copwt.ca/outtaMind.jpg)
(http://www.copwt.ca/traintunnel.gif)
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I love your train Izzy and so does my little one. Where in the world do you find such wonderful images?
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Hi Izzy,
I've been reading your posts and think you have a great sense of humor, are extremely intelligent and very good looking. I love the graphics you post.
I am very moved by your stories and know you have been through a lot. I'm sorry for all the pain you've been through.
In my nonprofessional opinion, I don't think you have APD. I think you are very sociable and engaging. You have me laughing at your little signs, like the one about the mind being dark and scary and the other one about gnawing through the straps.
Forgive me for being presumptuous and projecting but, I think you're like me: I don't like hanging out with people I don't like and therefore, there's not many people with whom I hang out. I do not enjoy being with people for the sole purpose of just being with people. I want to be with people whose company I enjoy.
The main reason I wanted to post to you is regarding your bathroom door!!!! Sounds a little weird, eh? But, I was thinking that you could have the current door replaced withsome kind of folding door which can close.
If you live in a rental, you could ask the owner or manager to do it and tell them you'll pay for it.
If you don't want to ask the owner/manager, a handyman can do it.
In either case, changing the door shouldn't be too expensive.
I bring this up because you said that the door situation puts a crimp in your social life and I feel that a different door could eliminate that crimp. How about the metaphor of opening (or in this case, closing) a door to your comfort and quality of life?
Anyway, Izzy, you are one heck of a gal and I enjoy having you here.
dazed
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Hiya GS
I’m glad your little one like my train. I look for images on purpose or come across them by accident and have an Image folder to which I save them. I like to use them in emails. The ones that are here I uploaded to web spaces that I have built, have access to. They have the space and will never know. In time I take things down. Just right-click and Save AS—to whatever folder you want—as these won’t be here forever.
I was playing a game I like, online. Big Kahuna Reef. I get only 10 levels but I love level 6, however I must play levels 1-5 to get to 6 each time. I can become so carried away with certain things and I think it is good and it staves off Alzhiemers to play a game of strategy, as well as build websites and balance books!
I am addicted to the computer, have a double desk and two computers. (hog)
(http://www.copwt.ca/ThYou2.jpg)
to you Both
hiya Dazed1
I like that name because now I know who the first DAZED woman in the world is and am glad to know you.
I have to agree with you here:
“Forgive me for being presumptuous and projecting but, I think you're like me: I don't like hanging out with people I don't like and therefore, there's not many people with whom I hang out. I do not enjoy being with people for the sole purpose of just being with people. I want to be with people whose company I enjoy.”
Well I’m glad you enjoy my sense of humour. I think it is a littlr weird, but it makes me happy!!
You know “Dazedly Dazedly give me your answer true”—oopss off key there!” (http://http//www.slrkelowna.ca/xmasbell.gif)
I have been in the ‘chair for 37 years and I have tried to never let it get me down.
There was a time when Sears had only a freight elevator at the back—well I says—“I am not freight”—so I rode up on the escalators.!! And back down on the escalators. I was finally chased out of the store by a manager, all the way to the parking lot, who shook his finger at me and told me to stop that, as I was scaring his customers!
Your mentioning my bathroom door told me—I can do something! (The managers did it and won’t reverse the door frames. I rent.) So I just went to the little room and realized that even though my chair takes up all the floor space and the door is out in the hallway, there is a way, and I accomplished it. The end result is that I CAN close the door and my chair is only slightly crooked with the ‘can’ IT WORKS!
I am also beginning to think I don’t have AvPD, as ‘seastorm’ first said, about not hanging on to that title too tightly.
I can tell you, though, that I cannot go through a revolving door or a turnstile--- but they are almost obsolete now! I left the rehab hosp in 1970 and that is the year that changes were being made. Nevertheless, I ran into obstacles, and overcame them, physically, so I expect I ought to emotionally.
I love graphics for websites and emails. I am a very young 67, and I wonder if it’s because I never had a chidlhood.
Thank you foe enjoying me
Love Izzy
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From Izzy's previous post:
In actuality, my face is blank. I can paint any picture on it that I want, so in comes makeup to paint in over the invisible eyebrows and eyelashes. I have a very high forehead and my hairline in set back. Also my head is shaped like an egg, so I style my hair to offset the flaws, wearing bangs, always, and hair down the side of my face and I poof up a bunch at the crown to offset the flatness. So now I have a hurt and painful persona that looks acceptable in public.
This struck me when I first read it because, of course, it reminds me of myself. I was and am the only redhead in my family. Often the only redhead around. In school, in the neighborhood, at work. Now, all of my childhood my mother was very concerned about my "invisible" eyebrows. My whole face is very fair and in harsh light my face disappears, too! Once my husband told me, you're very pretty in the dark! And I said, oh thanks, is that like, you're very pretty with a bag over your head?!? But what he meant was that my features really come out in a certain light. I knew that, I was just teasing him.
Anyway, my mother constantly pointed out the problem area of my eyebrows and I became obsessed with the issue myself for a long time. Always wishing I were darker. Nowadays, I never go in public without eyeshadow and mascara, especially now that my face is looking older. But for the rest of my insecurities I have learned to be more accepting of looking different. I finally decided this is how I look, and this is part of who I am and it has to be okay for me to look like me since it is okay for others to look like themselves. I told myself that way before I came to Voicelessness. So, I can be taught!
Another sidenote before I get to the point--on New Year's Eve we went to my cousin's for a party. Her husband's sisters and their families were also there. One of the little girls is very fair and kind of red-haired too. She has all this self-confidence and many interests she is unafraid to share. I marvel at her. I have often thought that she is kind of plain looking and felt bad for her about that even though she seems to be a happy and spirited little girl. Well, that night her aunt was staring at her and out of the blue she asked, "How come you're so pretty?" Like it had to be obvious to anyone with eyes. And the little girl accepted the compliment graciously but also as if she already knew that. She seemed to consider herself "so pretty" without being vain about it. And once again I realized just how narrow all my definitions of beauty and worth still are. Those seeds were planted in me from day one when I came out of the womb looking different. But that night I started seeing the beauty in that little girl. And it is a great thing to be able to do that. To accept it.
I was thinking that you're about the same age as my mom. And I was wondering if on top of all the abuse and all the things in your FOO that went into your own voicelessness, if there wasn't something about the times, post-war, fifties, that gave girls and women very unrealistic, narrow definitions about themselves. I mean even if your family had escaped all the abuse, maybe there would still be a problem due to the time period.
You see, I have been having trouble understanding my own upbringing. Many of us here understand that our parents were often abused and on some level did better by us than was done for them. My mother has a lot of the Nish behaviors described by people here. But it also seems to me that some of what went on in my childhood was the result of a mom who was trapped by what she thought she was supposed to be doing. Wife and mom. Period. Have a certain kind of face and certain kind of body. That's it. That's all you need to be a happy, fulfilled woman. One of the reasons my mother is still married, over 25 years, to someone with serious issues, abusive, crazy-making stuff, is because she doesn't want to be a "twice-divorced woman".
I see you as a completely different kind of woman, one who always had her own mind, could solve problems so creatively, and you didn't give that up about yourself. But there is still that thing about appearance. That just struck me, your comment about having a blank face. Like a canvas. Like nothing was there to begin with. That can't be true.
There are very few pictures of my mother from when she was little. In one I have seen, she is sitting on her tricycle and the sun is in her face and she is grimacing. She looks angry and defiant. Age probably about three. I was completely surprised by the amount of spirit on that little face. Well, actually my first thought was, so that's where my sister got it from. My sister was always the "bad" one. Defiant and angry to a high degree from a very young age. And to think that she might have been more like my mother than my mother would ever admit, that was very interesting. I had never, ever seen that side of my mother. She has kept that little one well-buried all these years. Over sixty-two years. The little one does pop out every so often. Even more, now that her "filter" seems to be breaking down a little. It can be embarrassing in restaurants when my mother just blurts out "rude" things. Must be the little one asserting herself. I used to get annoyed as well when she did that. This is the same woman who was continually shushing me in stores, or anywhere that other people might be around, all my growing up years. Who was continually embarrassed about my eyebrows.
Well, Izzy, you got me to thinking. Many, many of the moms from your generation seem to have these limitations. Well, many moms of this generation have limitations too. Some of the same ones. I just got to wondering if the times were a recipe for "N", were the times a recipe for abuse, so is my mother "N" or Voiceless? Maybe it doesn't even matter. Well, I guess it matters. Sometimes an understanding of cause can lead to an understanding of cure. That's how it seems to be for me anyway.
Yes, you sure did get me thinking about things.
Pennyplant
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PP,
You are so intelligently reflective.
Those were amazing, productive insights...and I hope the understandings reverberate and keep benefitting you for a long long time.
Just sounded like a real surge of healing to me.
Thanks for sharing this story. I feel sad for the little girl locked inside your mother.
And I am so GLAD for the confident little redhead you met NY Eve!
Hope your new year becomes filled with her spirit until you absolutely let go of those self-bashing habits. (They're only that...not truths.)
Hugs,
Hops
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Well, thank you Hopsy. It does feel like I'm building myself from the inside out. Interesting little pieces keep slipping into place every so often. I can "feel" it happening. I'm feeling different inside. Firmer. Realer. Long ways to go. But it is encouraging to even make any progress at all. I hadn't known it was possible for me.
Pennyplant
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Hi pennyplant
Trying to recreate the one I lost!
This board is great for turning people’s thoughts in another direction.
For quite some time now, any day I wasn’t going out I just ran a comb through my hair and applied no makeup. I think I was trying to see how I felt, and even if I could forget for the day that I was not made up. Maybe the superintendent would come to the door (seldom) and maybe I would order a pizza (never see delivery person again)
Twice I went out in public that way and felt weird, but no one yelled or screamed about a local witch.
New Rule from George Carlin: Ladies, leave your eyebrows alone. Here's how much men care about your eyebrows: do you have two of them? Okay, we're done.
I still feel better “hiding with makeup than highlighting with makeup”
While the other 4 sibs were redheads then would form a circle around me and dance around me singing “Everybody Loves Redhead”, a song that came out in the late 40s. I felt so humiliated. They called me “:old gray head” (and ‘baldy’) Then my eldest sister said I didn’t belong as I was found in a ditch and brought to live with them. I went to mom (likely the first time) and asked her where I came from—OH MY GOD…. I EXPECT MY MOM THOUGHT—A SEX TALK—and she said she found me in a ditch and brought me home. I cannot imagine how coincidental those stories were. But I always believe d that I never belonged and that I was always on the outside looking in.
So many false perceptions, so many different perceptions, over the same incident, but I was excessively shy and believed everything I heard. That made me very vulnerable all my life.
I liked your story about the little girl and how she looked like she felt pretty. I have NEVER been told I was pretty.—attractive is the only word I’ve heard and even then I knew it was my smoke and mirrors.
I resemble my mother and she never fussed with makeup or her hair.
When she was 18 months old, because of scoliosis and spina bifida, she was operated on, on the farm house kitchen table. The doctor left a bit of her spinal cord knicking between 2 vertebrae, like a knuckle. Well the body found that strange and began to build a sac there. By the time she was 47 there was so much pressure on her spine she couldn’t walk—no operation either as the sac was filled with vital arteries and veins. She was in a wheelchair for the rest of her life, and it began 13 years before my accident. When she was little she never walked until after age 2 and never rode a bike, or ran or danced.
I saw her though on one hell of a trot once when a man who came to buy some chickens, started driving away without paying her. She took off and opened the back doors of his truck and let out all her chickens. Kinda funny for us kids!! She was always very quiet and never spoke her mind, or protected us from Dad’s beatings.
In rehab we were told that we ought to attempt to look our very best as people see the wheelchair first and the person second………guys and gals alike.
Oh yes I realize my parents had parental problems of their own. Paternal grandmother scared the hell out of me and she dressed Dad as a girl until he was 6.
In talking like this, we can all realize that we are not alone now, and we have endured many of the same things to bring on this voicelessness. I prefer that term for me rather than AvPD. I think it is more accurate.
It is good when we can raise questions in others to allow them to see another trail to follow in search of theirs truths.
Still searching
Izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/whstar8.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/whstar8.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/whstar8.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/whstar8.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/whstar8.gif)
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Twice I went out in public that way and felt weird, but no one yelled or screamed about a local witch.
Oh, I love that, Izzy.
I have to say though that when I was growing up in this narrow-minded, N-istic little town of mine, that in fact I could not always walk down the street without being verbally molested. Even when I was a little girl, men would stop and holler, cat call, whistle, make comments. Boys from school would tease me mercilessly and holler out rude comments. Once, someone driving by as I waited to cross the road to go home stopped his car and took my picture. That time I thought he must have taken my picture because he thought I was cute. But I was very young then and hadn't yet been publicly abused by my peers and strangers alike. If I was walking home by myself from school and just thinking thoughts, passers-by would always say, "Smile, you look better that way."
How can one little redhead attract that much attention? Boggles my mind. I felt like such an oddity.
Although I think your siblings were very cruel to you, I would like to hear that song "Everybody Loves Redhead". My older friends, who came of age in the 40s, always love my hair. I guess it's a generational thing. In the 60s it was better to be blond or brunette.
Your siblings were very cruel and you are very sensitive and discerning. A bad combination, especially given your mother's weakness and your father's violence (And I think he was virtually guaranteed to be angry and violent or voiceless to the extreme, with his mother dressing him as a girl. I think that was actually more common back then than you might think. But that had to have been confusing to boys at the very least. Gets right at the core of one's identity.)
In your life, everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. I always call that situation a vortex. I don't even know what that word means but I must have got it from Star Trek and it just always sounds to me like a swirling, powerful force that sucks you in. I think you were caught in a vortex. And now you have been spit out on the other side and it's going to take some time to get your bearings.
They were right, in re-hab, when they told you that people see the wheelchair first. It seems better now as far as more people in wheelchairs and scooters are out and about and other people can get used to it and accept it as a way to be. But back when you couldn't get over the curbs and therefore had to stay in, well, it was more of an oddity. I remember "The Blind Man" in town when I was growing up. He lived at the Y. Then Urban Renewal came along and a new Y was built, only without single rooms for men to live in. I always wondered where he went to live after that.
So, anyway, I was getting around to what they said in re-hab. They were right about paying attention to looking your very best. That is important. And for women, part of looking your best involves makeup and some form of illusion. Still, though, I see your pictures and don't think it is all smoke and mirrors. Your essence shines through. That's what I see. I also see you in your daughter and granddaughter. And in their pictures, they are wearing very little makeup. I definitely see you in them. So something real is coming through, for sure.
Wow, it is way more complex being a woman than being a man!
Okay, better stop and eat breakfast and do a couple of chores.
Pennyplant
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hi pennyplant
thanks---good post and yep--I sure did have a spinning life--I like your vortex thought.
That might be part and parcel of why I live alone and have no close friends whatever, and try to avoid the workmates in person. I just need a break from people and something else going wrong.
My daughter and granddaughter have the colouring of the Native Canadian, as daughter's great grandfather was a full-blooded Chief. With colouring like that, they don't need much, if any, touchiing up. My daughter's smile cost me $4,000.00
I needed orthodontic work and it began when I was 15. My teeth were like a rail fence and my parents, at first were not going to shell out the money. I was already working full-time when the work was finished & a broken front tooth (that I had since age 6-7) was crowned. I ended up paying for the latter part because now I was earning $$. (All the redheads had perfect teeth--go figure!) I felt very odd wearing braces in the workplace.
How strange that you and I felt like oddities over the topic of red hair!!!! but reverse stories.
In the family there was no love shown, no one stepping in to protect or side with another. It was all fighting and scrapping and if there was too much scrapping we all got beaten--but I was definitely on the outside and my eldest sister said in an email about 3 years ago that she always felt I was the scapegoat.
I can certainly agree that my parents were not parented in a loving way, and this is likely a generational thing!
I have much to come to terms with and this board is the greatest place to hear another opinion.
Love
Izzy