Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: CB123 on January 09, 2007, 08:02:01 AM

Title: Need help
Post by: CB123 on January 09, 2007, 08:02:01 AM

edit

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Hopalong on January 09, 2007, 09:46:05 AM

CB, hon...
I'm so sorry.
I have been swamped with guilt over my parenting mistakes too. And some have been whoppers.

That said, this is a quick (I'm late for work) intuitve response and may not be helpful, but I just want to type it. Here's my instant Rx for you (take in homeopathic dose with large grain of salt):

I think you could try some exaggeration therapy. Farms are handy for this.
Go somewhere on a walk by yourself so it won't disturb the kids.
Get in a field or behind a big tree and start yelling out loud the terrrible, awful, horrible things you did:

I moved my children to a farm without realizing their Dad was a Narcissist a*****e!
HOW COULD I DO THAT?
I did not prevent my children from having (Problem A, B, C, D, etc.)
HOW COULD I DO THAT?
I feel resentful when I am completely overwhelmed by the tasks I face.
HOW COULD I DO THAT?
etc.

The more outrage, scandal, and drama you can inject into HOW COULD I DO THAT?, the better.

Keep going. After you pass the peak--the most horrible of your sins, don't stop. Now, begin to gradually list your crimes in descending order of magnitude (don't skip yelling the "chorus") until you get to something like:

I left the sponge in the sink without washing it out last night.
HOW COULD I DO THAT?

Just have a fine old time beating yourself up.
At some point, if this Rx works, I think you will be laughing. Or some part of you will smile.

Then you will be being affectionate to yourself in your humanity again.
Then you will be able to cope.

I hope.

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: moonlight52 on January 09, 2007, 10:15:36 AM

HI CB    Anyone that would tape record you like that is the lowest.
Hang in there
love to you
moon

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: sandra on January 09, 2007, 11:07:53 AM

Hi CB

ditto above over the recordings!!!

Your children are with you and they know what a wonderful Mum you are......hang in there.... i know so well how you feeling about the thought of letting them down I to am feeling the same about my children since the N father left.

Take care

loads of love

Sandra x

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 09, 2007, 12:35:09 PM

H had included page after page of transcriptions of phone conversations he had recorded--conversations with me and the boys.  I suspected he was doing it but it still felt like a punch in the gut.  More for the boys' sake.  How in the world can a father justify taping his sons and then spending hours transcribing them.   

He outlined what he was "offering" in the way of settlement.  Basically poverty.  Really-- that's not an exagerration.  He specifically said that I was not to use any community funds for job training.  My lawyer just snorted.  It's all preposterous, but I am still bowled over that he would even say such a thing.  Why, after all this time, am I still shocked? You are shocked that any human could do this to their own children, to a person they claimed to love all these years.  You are shocked that someone who espoused christian principles could have no sense of what love even means.  You are shocked because his chldren have done nothing to him and even if they had he is their FATHER.  And yet this recording betrays the very nature of what a human could be expected to do to their own offspring.  He cares so little about them that he could try to prevent you from getting training to go to work and provide for yourself and your children.  How vicious!! How inhuman!!  Of course you are shocked!

  It is striking at the core of who I am --or maybe at the core of my healing.  But I am really stuck.  I feel as though I can see light in the distance, but I can't get to it. Stay focused on being able to SEE the light.  Please rely on FAITH that you will be able to get to it.  If you were lieing in the street, hemoraging it would not be reasonable for you to be trying to figure out how you would get dinner on the table that night.  The medical staff would see how you would get through the trauma and into the healing process.  Your job would be to concentrate on staying alive long enough to get to the healing stage.  That is what you need to be doing.  You are not yet in the place where you can worry about HOW to get to the light.  You are still in that stage of keeping alive, getting to the healing stage.



You all have a little of my background if you have read my other posts.  We raised the kids in a very conservative environment--the boys were to be under their dad's tutelage to get ready for life (their dad basically ignored them).   I was able to give them a good education and as much social opportunities as could be found in a small rural area.  But everything else has been delayed--driver's license, first job, etc.   And since the separation, I feel like I am trying to play catch up in all areas at once. You are playing catch up.  That would be difficult if everything in life were going well.  Playing catch up alone is enough to get you down but that is such a very small portion of what you are struggling against.  No wonder you can barely hold on.  You will survive but you are under a tremendous burden.  That is why you are in so much pain. Anyone would be!!!

H basically abandoned us when he got us out here to the farm.  Once he left, we were truly abandoned.
CB - your children have been abandoned and YOU have been abandoned.  You were all abandoned before he left but now your resources have been cutoff at the knees.  You have been thrown to the wolves.  You have been thrown into an ocean without any swim lessons - you have to figure out how to keep afloat and how to keep your children afloat all by instinct.  If you give up you will sink.  NO ONE should be thrown into a life threatening situation with no help.  You have been.  No wonder you feel like you are dieing.  You have to hold on  - too much has been put on your shoulders.  But listen - as hard as it is and as frightening as it is and as challenging as it is you are going to survive.  Being strong enough to survive is not all that it is cracked up to be.  Who wants to be strong enough to survive what you are suffering?  Noone! 

I feel as though I have honestly stepped up to the plate, but every time I get one ball into the air another whizzes in and smacks me in the head.   You have stepped up to the plate and you are getting smacked in the head.

And the guilt over having allowed us all to get here is becoming debilitating.  This is where you can find help.

Everyone is depressed, everyone feels abandoned by their dad, everyone is keeping their hurts inside to avoid putting any more on me. Here is another place some help can be found right away. This is where sharing can really make a difference.  Think about an elephants foot.  It is so very broad so that its huge weight is distributed in a wide space.  If its foot were smaller the elephants weight would crush its own foot. You and your children need to share your struggles and come together to make a bigger footing.  If you each try to hold your own sufferings to yourselves it will be too much.  Though it goes against your instinct, it is time to give your children a little more responsibility towards keeping your family afloat.  Giving them each more responsibility will actually help them rather than hurt them - like a baby bird needs to peck its own way out of the egg, your children need to help in keeping the family afloat.  Sharing the burden will help you all.

I am driving someone somewhere every day (and yes, one of the major activities I'm driving to is driver's ed), but it never feels like enough. It won't feel like enough until the hemoraging has stopped.  When you are feeling overwhelmed you must tell yourself and trust that it will get better before you give out.  This is a true act of faith but strangely by taking this thought in faith you will begin to close that hemorage.

And there doesnt seem to be anything I can stop doing without doing more damage--the most dangerous thing that I can do right now is stop going. Your instinct here is right.  Keeping going is hard but believe it or not it is keeping you alive.  If you stop you could drown in sorrow.  Keeping going though it feels like it is killing you, it is actually keeping you alive.

 The isolation is toxic and fighting it seems to be the top priority.This is the most difficult thing you will probably face in life.  It is so difficult but you are doing it.  That is more than you can know.

I feel responsible and guilty and ashamed.  It doesnt help to tell myself that it isnt my fault and H is a creep.  It isnt and he is.  But the feelings of guilt are coming from somewhere within me and I just need someone here to talk me through the process of getting to where it's located.  I know I can do it--I just need a push. Yes you can!!!  You can't see it but you ARE doing it.  You have identified in this post exactly where you can focus on change.  it is here in this sentence, "I feel responsible and guilty and ashamed." This is what needs to change. I will give you some suggestions about how and about why changing this can give you a real, substantial boost.  Look at this next paragraph that you wrote earlier in this post.

I have so much guilt about my kids and the pain they are feeling because of my bad choices.  I don't really go back and dwell on what is behind, but I feel as though I am moving faster and faster trying to escape it. I am emotionally exhausted.  I feel so guilty for agreeing to move to the farm and isolating them so.  For the last five years of just giving up and giving in.  I am bowed under the knowledge that when they look back on these years, they will not have good memories.  Why am I stuck here?  You are stuck here because you feel guilty.  Guilt is a destructive feeling.  It paralyzes and gets you stuck.  I know from my own life.  My NPD father thrived on projecting shame and guilt.  It has kept me stuck for almost 50 years.  Just this fall I finally understood and began to find a way out.  I suspect that your husband has been very good across the years at getting you to feel responsible for HIS bad actions.  You are including in your "bad actions" moving to the isolated house but of course you did that.  That was a reasonable action as your role as a wife and mother.  You are feeling guilty about choices that your husband made and that you agreed to.  You agreed to them in good faith!! You were following what you believed to be the important role of wife and mother.  You made a sacrifice to make those decisions.  You didn't make those decisions selfishly, thinking only of yourself and devil may care what the family needed.  You made those decisions out of what you thought was best for your family.  You see in hindsight that is was not a great decision but if you had seen the future you might have left your husband rather than move to the country.  But how would you have supported them or raised them.  The first step in cauterizing the bleeding is to forgive yourself and to recognize that you truly did make those decisions out of the right motive and that even if you hadn't, even if you could go back and make different decisions your motive was right just as your motive is right today.  Please, forgive yourself and let go of the guilt.  There is nothing good that can come from it.  when you feel it tell yourself, "I forgive myself because I must.  Everyone makes mistakes.  I thought I was doing right but I was wrong.  I forgive myself so that I can move on - for my children's sake, I forgive myself."  You will be able to move towards healing by forgiving yourself.  Imagine if you will that one of your daughters was in a similar place - what would you tell her?  What would you do to get her past where you are?  You gave up and gave in because no other choice semed feasible.  You did the best you could at that time.  When you recognize that, you will be able to move on.  You would have made a different choice if you could have.

I really want to hold you up while you struggle.  I see your strength and I see your way out.  I know that you cannot but I am holding that vision for you until your eyes adjust and can catch this vision.  You are strong but I know your strength is waning.  But you have seen that your friends here will help you forward.  You have seen that you can lean on people here while you rest and your strength is restored.  You have giving me strength and I hope to return it to you 4 fold. - your friend - gaining strength

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: axa on January 09, 2007, 12:38:27 PM

Oh CB GIRL

You are their Mom, you are doing the best you can.  Beating yourself up will not help you and them.  Welcome to the real world, we have all made mistakes and regret them, that is the difference between us and them, we are sorry if we unwittingly made choices which in retrospect may not have been the best.  You are doing for your kids.  You have not abandoned them.  You are not playing crazy games, recording your calls with them.  Step back for a minute and see that you are there in the centre of their world.  You are constant and reliable.  Think for a second, would you expect someone who was in a horrific traffic accident to get up and walk away as if nothing had happened.  You are dealing with reality of living in madness having been disempowered.  But it is changing.

You have plans, you are supporting your kids, you are recovering from a terrible injury.  PLEASE PLEASE BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF.  I hate to hear you being so hard on yourself.

Sending you hugs and love

axa

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: gratitude28 on January 09, 2007, 10:14:47 PM

CB,
Lots of great answers here. Take it a day at a time and do what is best every day... The past may not have been perfect, but you can be a wonderful example to your kids now and show them how to pick up and move on when you make a mistake. You rhusband is a sick person to think about what he is getting out of this and what he control instead of what is good and necessary for you and the children. It sounds like you have a good lawyer.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((CB))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Love, Beth

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: CB123 on January 09, 2007, 10:29:37 PM

Thank you all.  I didnt want to go to bed tonight without thanking each of you for the support that you have given.  I want to write more but I am so tired.

I feel pretty mowed down, but I think I'll be better by morning.  Thank you all so much.

CB

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Hopalong on January 09, 2007, 10:41:42 PM

CB, hon...

You are such a good mother. (Excuse me! Did I say perfect? No I did not!  :?)

I know the good mother in you, even if you don't understand how to do it for yourself at this moment...well you KNOW at some gut level that you will not be giving your children the real opportunity they now have to learn, and grow, and come away from their father's kind of thinking, if you continue to unfairly and irrationally and let's face it, cruelly, blame yourself.

The blame game is short-sighted, like an animal chasing its tail. All you do is trip and fall in it.

The situation is what it is. It stinks and hurts and is horrible. Isn't that enough without adding the weight and pain of self-blame? It's not fair and I think you DO believe in fairness! I know you do. You have been so generous and kind and gentle and forgiving and seeing-the-best-in-her with me...your challenge now, more than driving and coping and money and your son's illness and all of that...your real challenge is to turn the light of love right around and beam it into yourself. Like a searchlight, a warm beam of real compassion that you actually feel. Literally feel. Maybe just before you go to sleep every night.

I think this is the most important thing you can do.

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: seastorm on January 09, 2007, 11:08:23 PM

CB123 my heart goes out to you. You are trying to be so strong. You do not have to present a perfect picture of a parent for the kids. Better to be real than perfect. I went through a lot with my daughter and did not sheild her from everything because I couldn't hide the poverty or the stress of juggling a lot while going to school. We were in it together and together we learned to work through our problems step by step. Sometimes very tiny step by step. This is very important bonding and it is not enmeshment.

It is so hard not to internalize the voice of the N when separating. He has launched a major campaign of power and oppression just when you are most vulnerable. What a slime and a pathetic bully. There is something so creepy and intrusive and violating about taping his children's voices so that he can use them to his own advantage. Thankfully he is on his way out of the power seat. You are to be commended for even attempting to do this. He is a virtuoso at smashing you and you just decided to change the rules. Wow. Good for you. You knew it would be war and this is what war looks like.

I see you being very resourcesful, brave and clever and fighting fair. Considering the opposition this is laudable. Your lawyer is the main person between you and psycho-boy. For he is not a man at all to use his family in this reprehensible way.
Your main job is not to stretch yourself too far. You are in survival mode and this is a minute by minute, hour by hour affair. This means you need to nurture yourself and feed your spirit very carefully so you don't get depleted.
You are quite a grand person that is for sure. Boy I would like to have you on my side. I have felt your awesome kindness and strength and it is wonderful. Be on your own side. Those voices in your head that batter you down are loudest now because you have had a glorious and unexpected rebellion. God is helping you and you don't have to do it all by yourself. I am sure that you have seen this. When the guilt stops and you see clearly you can see the angels flocking around you. I am not a real Christian but even I have come to know this in this aweful time I have been going through.

Do not expect mercy and compassion from the N. If you ask for it they will perceive this as weakness and really nail you.
In standing up to this bully husband you have given your children a gift of amazing courage and flexibility.  I find it hard to find the words to convey how this is what the kids need more than driver's licenses or whatever else you think they have missed. You have tried your best. There are so many parents who just check out and neglect their kids. Love is the most important ingredient in parenting.

Give yourself a break from perfectionism. You are trying to survive right now. That is what is required. Just survive and heal. NO I repeat NO NO NO trying to make up for what was missed.

Tell yourself that you love yourself even though you are not perfect
                        you love yourself even though you married an N
                        You love yourself even though you aren't .............

Keep coming to the board for support.

Sending you and your children love and healing and hugs,

Seastorm

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: CB123 on January 10, 2007, 07:27:43 AM

edit

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 10, 2007, 08:10:47 AM

CB, your own insighs are crystal clear.  You are trying to save your own children from abandonment.  find a new therapist and get help with a strategy about how to deal with this fear.  But meanwhil consider a way to share with them without making them fearful.  When you share your own fears they feel let in, included, not abandoned.  Let them in on some small portion.

The key to your insight is in your last paragraph. "As I read what I have written here, I think I am trying to keep my kids from the feeling of abandonment that I had when I was a kid.  I think that hole in me is so deep that it probably can't be filled by filling theirs--but I keep trying.  I wanted my mom to be there for me in the hurt that I felt from my NDad and she got her own needs met elsewhere and left me to fend for myself.  So, I am trying to spare my children that--but I am stuck in this vortex of "oughts" and can't find my way out."  your friend - GS

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: seasons on January 10, 2007, 11:23:34 AM

   ((CB)) you have received such wonderful love and support in this thread. You are one courageous mother. My love and support are also given to you as I echo all that has been shared.

Hang on dear friend, that light will get brighter.... a step at a time. (HUGS) seasons

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Sela on January 10, 2007, 12:13:01 PM

Hiya CB:

Your life sounds so exhausting both physically and emotionally.  I must commend you for your strength and survival instincts.  This is not easy and you are doing it!

Two things came to my brain that might help (or just discard if not of use to you):

1.  Please forgive yourself.

You aren't a mind reader or a fortune teller.  You couldn't have known what would happen, after moving to the country, or predicted how nasty your H would be to all of you.  You can't take all the blame and guilt.  It doesn't belong to you.  Please give yourself credit for doing your best to keep going, to make things better, to move forward, to support your dear children and to keep your sanity.  My God what more do you expect from yourself?  With all you have on your plate, you are still functioning and doing your best.  Please decide to forgive yourself and start new.
What do you think?  If I were the one describing all of this.....what what you tell me?

2.  How about somehow scheduling something fun into family life?  It could be a game of cards or a few minutes where everyone tells a joke or funny story, or simply watching a sit com together and a short talk about it afterward?  Maybe a half hour of some other game the kids like (board game, basket ball, catch)? 
Anything......to give the bunch of you a feeling of relaxation and enjoyment together.  A new hobby perhaps?  Taking turns reading poetry out loud?  Or a good story?  Putting music on and dancing for a few minutes?  All going for a walk?  How about a discussion to decide what would be fun or get ideas?  I know it's so hard but if you could possibly squeeze a few minutes of enjoyment together into each day......it might help everyone a little and start a whole new ball rolling?  What do you think?

(((((((big large huge hug))))))))

Sela

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: daylily guest on January 10, 2007, 05:39:22 PM

Hi CB:

I just wanted you to know that your posts here gave me a lot of insight into what a good mother thinks, feels, and tries to accomplish.  In spite of your own exhaustion, doubt, fear, etc., you're looking at the situation through their eyes and trying to give them what they need but can't always ask for (because they don't always know it).  Truthfully, your writing made me acutely aware of how much you love them--not because you feel guilty, but because you're not giving in to the guilt.

I think Sela's idea about getting some mindless fun into your lives is a great one.  Sometimes you really need to allow yourself to be distracted and to play.

So although I don't have much in the way of advice, I just wanted to let you know that you've inspired me.  Thank you for that.

daylily

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: isittoolate on January 10, 2007, 06:34:48 PM

CB

I really wish you the best.

I was never married, so never divorced and really don't know anything about the hassles of divorce

I do know some are friendly and some not. I do know some are fair and some not.

Best of Luck with your hassles

Izzy

(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/star2[1].gif)

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Hopalong on January 10, 2007, 10:45:59 PM

Hi CB,

I don't hear any time for you with supportive adults, other than an occasional therapy appt.
Can you attend a divorce support group? I know that's another time demand, but it might be worth it if you can manage it. (You could offer to HOST one from a church or community resource center, then there'd be no transportation issues.) Is there any adult friend whom you trust in your life? If yes, can you ask that person to come to the farm and take a long walk with you once a week for a while?

The other thing I don't hear is any creative outlet other than the board (excellent as it is!). I am thinking something creative, in the depths of pain and fatigue, even if it's simply mad fingerpainting (speaking of excellent family activities at ANY age...!)--can relieve you. Somehow the spirit heals through the hands when the mind is exhausted.

I hope you can also find a massage therapist. I believe you need touch and comfort and kindness, and you need some help giving those to yourself.

You are doing an incredible job supporting your children, all of them. But please remember that you did not cause the situation that is hurting them, and this pain does belong to them. What will heal them is time and learning.

Your compassion and endurance will help them, but they each still have their own walk to walk. Don't try to walk it for them. Don't try to change yourself and become perfect. No need, dear.

hugs,
Hops

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: seastorm on January 11, 2007, 02:51:10 AM

CB

The good and loving person that you are really comes shining through.  Believe in yourself.  You have such devotion and courage.
It is easy to hang in there with you. I am really rooting for you.

Lots of love and hugs,
Sea storm

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Sela on January 11, 2007, 11:04:46 AM

Hi again CB:

Keep going!  You're gonna be fine! 

I hope next week will go quick and will bring some relief.  Then you can get back to bringing little bits of regular life back into your days.  That will be good for you, I think.

Go for that massage!  Get a good book!  Take care of you CB.  Your kids will benefit from it in the long run, so no guilt necessary.   ((((((CB))))))

Sela

Title: Re: Need help
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 11, 2007, 11:28:10 AM

So glad you and your children are finding validation.  That one thing has really turned my life around.  I got it from my therapist but for some reason that was not enough.  I have a way of minimizing all that is good and so I minimized his help and assurances by thinking that I was paying him to support me.  But the reality is that paying him isn't where the support and encouragement come from.  Receiving validation for me means accepting it - not minimizing it.

CB123, I was thinking of you this morning as I started reading, The Pursuit of Happyness.  It is a trul remarkable story about a man who grew up in poverty and later set his eye on becoming successful.  Early in the book there are passages about his young life that could have come right out of posts here but the thing that made me think of you and yours was that he lived with his mother, three sisters and a brutal step-father.  His mother whom he loved and who was loving to him worked but didn't make enough to be economically self-sufficient.  But this man as a young boy was able to survive his emotional abuse and his mother's physical abuse because his mother loved, encouraged and supported him emotionally.  This man went on to survive great difficulties and move into a successful, fulfilling life.  My note to you is that you have been trapped financially and emotionally but your children have received more from you than you are able to recognize at this point.  You feel guilty about bad decisions but I hope you will feel good and empowered about the remarkable courage and love you demostrated curing these extremely difficult years.  That is the most important thing to focus on.  Keeping that in sight you will find the path out easier - like a winding road up a mountain.  The mountain is the same debilitating height whether you chose to climbed straight up or wind around but the trek up the winding path is easier than going straight up - why take the most dificult?  Think about all the is wonderful that you have given your children. - your friend - Gaining Strength