Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: DivineSunshine on January 13, 2007, 07:44:29 PM

Title: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 13, 2007, 07:44:29 PM

What in the H*** is it that makes these people able to always make us feel like the one who is  losing our minds?  They also make sure that when we do fall apart with the strain they put on us, or we speak up to tell them to knock it all off, they tell us how crazy we are and make sure someone is there to see how badly we are behaving and how confused they are by it???  Then when the get us alone they REALLY let us have it!

And then that, too, drives us crazy!!!  In that certain way.......

I see it all in my life like clock-work.  I see the sickness operating like I put on special glasses or something, but now I really don't know what to do. I don't feel I can leave and I don't feel I can cope either. 

I saw a therapist last year and he just verified I WAS dealing with a N and it would be very difficult.   Ummmm...thanks.  16 years of living with this and I am paying for you to tell me this???   Stopped going to T and tried to cope and ignore the situation.  But as you all know they refuse to be ignored and I am now to a point where i refuse to be abused.  So we fight, and fight and fight because i feel like my nerves are on edge I can't seem to handle much any more.  The life situation he has left us in doesn't help either.  I fall apart and look like the nut.  Or I just shut down and my mind spins, anxiety sets in, Etc.  SO VERY tired of it.

He has succeeded in turning the oldest child against me and now I get it from her cause she seems to be a chip of the ol block (so to speak).  I have to be disciplinarian and protector and caretaker and he is just "their buddy"  As long as they toe the line and bow to him.   I want to get away but i feel obligated to protect the children (as always).  But at this rate, he might be able to get away with having me committed  ---by driving me over the edge daily----  WHAT DO I DO?????

Any advice would be soooooo appreciated!  Sorry for the rant.  I am usually very upbeat when he hasn't pushed ALL my buttons every day, which is getting more and more rare these days!

Namaste & Peace!

D. Sunshine

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: isittoolate on January 13, 2007, 09:18:39 PM

Hi Sunshine.

Well never once think they don’t know they are doing it. They plan it that way: the crazymaking.

(Just to interject, the N from Hell here, the minute he saw me starting lunch would say, ”Oh I have to make a phone call. Be right back”, or “Oh I have to see Bing, across the street. Be right back.” He never was right back: usually gone over the hour so I had two choices, eat without him or wait for him. If I ate without him he bitched that I at least could have waited for his important business to be over, or if I waited for him he would say, ”You don’t have to wait for me. What? You need me to spoon-feed you?”--- Well I tried to solve what I was doing wrong but there is no answer for that…yet I didn’t know about N—ism until I left him.)

Yes. Dealing with an N is difficult and I see yours has used the divide and conquer on the eldest child. They can be so convincing, and never lose the ability to talk the hind legs off a horse, while you sit with your mind in such a jumble not a sensible word comes out.

I expect all of us must find our own way. Have you read Sam Vaknin’s writings on NPD? He can be a great help, but then he rather goes on and on and is not a certified Psychologist. There are other sites on the Internet.

My daughter married an N. They were married 10 years, but she left him, (1994) took the 3 children.  2 years before the divorce (1996.) The children would have been, 8, 5, and 2. She worked and applied for University again, already had some credits under her belt, that the marriage brought to an end. She was wasted to the bone!

She finally had her health degree and is a mid-wife..

When the eldest was 13, almost 14, N Dad had convinced him to leave Mom and go live with him. He is now 20 and an N as well and he and Mom not on good terms. Next is daughter, now 17 still at home, and I just heard from her today that the youngest now 14, has gone to live with N Dad….another N in the making.

Yes it seems most Ns get their way and they can lie so effectively and can act as though they are the sane ones and you are nuts!

Don’t let him drive you around the bend!

Sleep in another room? Don’t do for him, just do for the children and yourself? Does he have any harpies on the side? Get proof? Set up a plan of action to defeat him? Keep your mind in motion so you don’t lose it?

I had only 4½ years to deal with the one here (Imagine mother and daughter both having an N) but this one was psychopath too  (criminal behaviour) We owned a business together and it was going along fine, but I earned nothing from it. It was all his, even though I put into it too. Capital and work.  I was doing the books, building computers, whatever and never a cent came my way. I finally asked him for my Capital back, and then wrote a cheque to myself, signed it and cashed it! Then when the next available apt. came up, I moved out! That was 4½ years ago, but then another 6months of feigning a friendship while I was dissolving the partnership, and finally received the papers. I sent them by registered mail, then No more Contact!!!!! He was now about 7 months behind in the bookkeeping---too much for anyone to catch up with his sloppy ways and no Tax Returns for 5 years. Government came after him, as I received calls, but I don’t know the end result.

I see that he is reduced to renting out rooms to be able to pay the bills and I know he lost the one big account that brought in most of his income. Leave them on their own long enough and they will do themselves in.

Sorry for the ramble, but where there’s a Will there’s a Relative—oops, I mean, there is a Way. You will find yours and this is a good place with good people.

Hang in there

Love isittoolate
(Izzy for short.)

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Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: liberty on January 14, 2007, 05:22:30 AM

Hi Sunshine,

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I understand the button pushing thing. I have been struggling with this one myself quite recently. Thankfully, I don't have to live in the same house with the N but you know their reach can be long and wide.

I know that when I lived under the same roof as Nmom, I found relief in mentally plotting / imagining my escape. I tried not to engage in arguments while I was there and threw myself into my studies so that I would be able to get a proper job and have the financial means to leave.  Knowing that I had a plan made it easier.

When your hand is in the lion's mouth, you have to pull it out gently; and make no mistakes, you are dealing with a lion. Save your energy because engaging in this type of warfare is very draining. Take courage from the fact that all of us here support you and can validate your experiences.

Plot your escape. You cannot teach your N empathy or fairness. Don't waste your precious energy.

Hugs,
Lib

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: Hopalong on January 14, 2007, 01:47:30 PM

Divvy Sunny,
What she said. (Lib).

You cannot teach an N empathy or fairness.

That's the nutshell.

I also agree with -- plot your escape. REALLY important points to keep in mind, esp. when you've been so angry:

--don't tell what you're thinking about
--don't threaten
--don't toy or tease or make ultimatums

--do copy financial records
--do see a good lawyer
--do establish your own credit (rent a PO box if need be)
--etc.

Be peaceful inside yourself and understand that while the pull to disclose and keep sharing is natural and habitual, you need to keep as normal and pleasant a surface as you can and plan for your own sane furture privately.

Just an opinion, and if you're not that far along in your thinking, I apologize, I don't mean to shove.

Hang in,
Hopalong

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 14, 2007, 11:18:04 PM

Thanks you guys---CB--I don't know your story yet, but I heard a song the other day by Keith Urban----Stupid Boy----I about had to pull the car over bawling.  I think I'll leave it playing when I walk out.  Maybe then he'll get a clue.  Is yours a husband?  Partner, boyfriend?  How long? 

isittoolate---don't ya just love their total lack of consideration for our time??  And energy?  I frequently bring meals to this ---jerk---just so he won't come into the living area of the house with his thundercloud and upset everyone.  I take his meal in and then calmly shut the door for a little bit of peace. 

He doesn't give a dang about my time or if I hurry to go somewhere or do something.  He just takes his own sweet time.  He gets upset if I dress better than him to go somewhere.  He sits and primps himself while I, the mother of, well, I am embarrassed to say how many, runs helter skelter around getting myself ready and all the kids ready to go anywhere.  And then he will just sit in his throne until he is good and ready.  Total disregard---BUT if I say ANYHTING, then I am a total B*****, and I end up apologizing to just get it over with.  AARGH!!

I would LOVE to sleep in another room, but he grunts every time I move in the bed just to let me know he is still watching over me in his sleep.  If I get out he immediately comes looking for me and starts to whine.  I actually recently heard salt will border out negative energy.  I am desperate so you should have seen my scooching under the bed to pour a salt barrier on the floor around where he amd I sleep .  It's hilarious, I know, but I am willing to try anything.   Also put a barrier in his home office across the door.  Wish it would literally keep him in there for the day.  But noooo, he has to come out and whine and complain at regular intervals, dump his anger and frustration on me, and then carry on, and expect me to be just fine.   Another AARGH!!

liberty--thanks for the poignant words.  He is a total lion.  Great metaphor!  Great advice!  Totally true!  I know with the support of you guys, by reading and posting I will be able to silently plan and soon excape!  You are all angels!

And to you Hopalong----No, you are not pushing too hard.  You are totally right.  I think finally I am going to be able to look into a PO box and get my credit (which he has hijacked and ruined) back on track.  A very good idea.  The financial record copying is daunting but not impossible.  Since I keep all the records (of his idiocy :?).  He just messes things up and I store it.  Interesting relationship.  Never considered myself a great actress. However,  I have been pretty good through the years I now see, but my patience is wearing thin.  It's like the end of a long marathon where you just wanna sit down and cry.  I know better.  And I also know I always finish "the race".  On my own.  Pushing myself harder and harder.  Finally, I am so worn out and exhausted.  But I know I will make it this time by letting down my guard and accepting encouragement from wise souls who care and understand.  Thank You--My Friend.  Advice well-received. 

Take care all---

Namaste & Peace

Sunny D

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: axa on January 15, 2007, 06:54:34 AM

Sunny D,

The thing that amazes me all the time is how the same they all are.  Self serving selfish bastards.  I think there are practical steps like your credit etc that you need to take care of but I would be very concerned about Your mental health.  The constant negativity, coping with the kids, etc it has to take its toll on you. 

I think Hops made a really good suggestion "dont tell what you are thinking about" I did this all the time and gave him the advantage over me.  I always tried to negotiate/reason etc. waste of time energy etc.  Smartest thing I think is to pretend you are really dumb and keep making plans on the side for yourself and kids

axa

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: GAP on January 15, 2007, 09:15:53 AM

Dear Sunshine,

If I didn't know better I would think you were living my life...I could write everyword you have written.  Everytime I hear the Keith Urban song I think it was written about my life and like you I bawl (and I've been away from the narcissist for over 3 years).  6 years ago I never thought I could get a divorce and straighten out my life.  When my husband moved out the first time I had to tell my parents and they made fun of me and told me if it was so bad why didn't they know about it (I went to them when I was pregnant with my second child and they told me I married him, make it work).  When he moved out the second time and I decided to file for divorce they weren't much better.  I have four children, the oldest was 19 when the divorce began. 

I can't tell you it was easy or that the kids weren't incredibly difficult.  On the rare occasions I turned to my parents, they ridiculed me and my decisions.  My daughters were sitting in the car with me after a particularly difficult abuse session and turned to me and said..."how much longer are you going to let him treat you the way he treats you?"  When I questioned my decision, and I questioned it often, I would think, I don't want my girls marrying a narcissist and my only hope of getting them somewhat healthy is to get out.  After I filed I never got sucked back in.  I got caller ID and ignored his druken late night phone calls.  He tried to tell everyone he could I was crazy, he loved and adored me, look at the life he created that I was walking away from.  Fortunately, his friends(the few he has) and family knew he was abusive.  Although people won't tell you when your married, if you ever decide to divorce you might be surprised at the number of people that come out of the woodwork and support you.

When I read your post it was like reliving my past.  My head always felt like it was about to explode.  I remember the "I'll just ignore the behavior" stage I went thru.  It actually increased the bad behavior.  There are wonderful therapist out there, if you can afford to get back into therapy try and find a good one that understands narcissim.  I often wonder did I do the right thing by the kids...they now need to deal with him alone without my protection...I know I did because until you are seperated from the situation you can't help them deal with behavior you haven't put an end to yourself.  A good therapist will also help them sort out their delusional thinking...the younger they get out of the situation the more hope there is.

Just a few weeks ago a woman I was doing business with had a rage attack towards me.  I was devestated for a week.  I realized I was suffering from "post tramatic stress syndrome".  Although nothing she said made sense, she was just projecting her craziness onto me, I have heard numerous stories of her raging at other non suspecting people but I still had a negative reaction.  All I could think of was thank God I never have to speak to her again, that kind of behavior use to be my life, you never know when they are going to be set off.

Keep writing and talking...you will find strength...what a stupid man you are married to.

Regards,

Gap

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 15, 2007, 04:22:15 PM

I KNOW I need to keep this to myself when I am around him.  You guys are absolutely right.

This is when it happens......he knows what he is doing too....I am trying to control my emotions and be detached.  I may become a bit quieter when I need to regroup or hold back rage, or tears.  I usually do ok.  Really.  But he can sense this "regrouping" in me and like a match to gasoline bears down on me and won't let up until I break.  In past years I have just cried and blamed my poor self esteem or someone else and he is HAPPY with that.  I just use something else as s decoy to throw him off.  -----And then when he is mad at me, he uses anything I say at those times against me,   calls me names about this situation or that childhood event with my N mom & sister and their abuse ----and tells me I am wrong and a baby.  Especially for going no contact with them this past year.

But lately, this past year, I have finally let him have it a few times.  Telling him what a jerk he is.  He just yells louder, backs me into a corner, shoves me around, even the last one a few weeks ago, he called 911 on ME cause I was yelling too loud at him finally.  He did it to control me.  I let him call, and then he called his mommy to come get my kids out fo the house.  I begged and screamed at both of them to not take the kids, they said they wouldn't but while my MIL kept me busy "consoling" me, he was putting all the kids in the car.  I did get her to admit in front of him how domineering and controlling he was.  Finally.  She only did it because he put me into the position of looking like the crazy one in front of her and she was patronizing me.  Or at least that is what she will tell him.

He has a real sick relationship with her (it's like they are married and I am the mom) and I told them both so, and she was real loving until I said something about her lying and manipulating him and her husband and then HER fangs came out--------and she still drove off with the kids.  Of course he sent her out to protect her from me telling her what I thought of her.  I did pretty much lose it.  But sometimes, I think ya gotta.  Probably never again though.
Anyway, that was the final straw, so I told him he was an egotistical, narcissistic, A**H****.  And blah, blah, blah....
Told him that my T told me early on I had married my Mother in him.  That was the ultimate insult.  Nobody wants to be compared to her.

..........So what was I talking about initially?   HA HA.  I got caught up in relaying the last bad fight.  Oh yeah, I lost my cool and let him into my thinking.  He is behaving now.  We will see how long that lasts.

If anyone has ever seen the website of book about emotional vampires:   albernstein.com
I found it the other day and HAD to laugh out loud!!

Out of the 23 people in my FOO, IN-LAWS, H, and Children:  I have only 7 N's---so I am not seeing one around every corner, but.....according to this book Emotional Vampires and his checklists on his site for each "vampire"
type.  I have the following:

MIL and Sister and Brother:  Histrionic Vampires  (to a T)
Narcisstic Vampires:  Husband  (I think he got 20 out of 20!) and oldest Daughter
Obsessive-Compulsive Vampires:  Mother  (of course she fits Narsisstic as well)
Father--Paranoid Vampire

 :shock: :P
Although I think they all fit under the N word, I always felt I was dealing with the illness in different manifestations with these people.  I just couldn't put my finger on it until I saw these checklists.  What a hoot! :lol:

Well, enough rambling.

Thanks
Peace & Namaste
Sunny D

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 15, 2007, 04:38:23 PM

Thanks for your reply.  I just went off on my last post so I will make it short, but in regards to the parents not understanding.  I can say I have been there.

I actually had the nerve to pack up the kids and leave about 3.5 years ago and when I got to my folks house.  They just sat there and stared...blink. blink.

Then they got up and literally turned their backs on me while I sat in tears with my kids at their kitchen table.  They didn't ask anything or console.  It was like talking to zombies.

But I knew what they were thinking.  That is how they always controlled me.  Their judgment was thick enough to cut with a knife. 

It was there and then I realized I would have to choose between those monsters (Moms an N, dad is a paranoid enabler) or the monster at home.  I decided my kids would be better off with their father only because he was their father and they would be in their own beds for now.   And I went back.  Of course things have only deteriorated since then. 

I worry like crazy about the kids, the oldest is just shy of 15.  And they total 6 in all.  I protect them from him daily emotionally mostly.  I would do anything to protect them!  I just don't know what that is anymore.  Stay or go.  stay or go.... round and round I go.....

Keep posting, I would love to hear more about how you got out.  And anything at all!

Peace & Namaste

Sunny D

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: grateful ex member on January 15, 2007, 05:32:22 PM

Hi Sunny D.,

Quote

He has succeeded in turning the oldest child against me and now I get it from her cause she seems to be a chip of the ol block (so to speak).  I have to be disciplinarian and protector and caretaker and he is just "their buddy"  As long as they toe the line and bow to him.   I want to get away but i feel obligated to protect the children (as always).  But at this rate, he might be able to get away with having me committed  ---by driving me over the edge daily----  WHAT DO I DO?????

Reading this gave me the chills. I'm so sorry. My heart goes out to you, for what you're feeling and shouldering and because whatever you do, it sounds like your H. will make things very hard and you've already suffered so much from him. IMHO, everyone who suggested you should keep sharing here and looking for support as you consider and plan your options made great points.

As to what you decide to do, I wouldn't begin to tell you or anyone else what to do. I can only speak from my own experience with an N. father, and what happened in our family. I think the best thing my M. could have done to protect us would have been to leave and deprive him of his day to day control, mind games and abuse. And allow us all to stop walking on eggshells and step away from the dysfunctional relationships and homelife he inflicted on all of us. All the awful things he modeled about how to treat your 'loved' ones, what it means to be a parent, and how families relate. Every year she stayed cost all of us more emotionally and ingrained destructive patterns of intimacy and self image that challenge us to this day. Between the six of us there've been 11 divorces; all in our 40s, I'm the only married child, the only one who's managed a healthy partnership that lasted more than year or two.

My M. never left till we were grown and by then my F. had truly broken my eldest sibling: broke her spirit, changed who she was, and buried her in a self-loathing that led to alcoholism and a deep fear of intimacy that still haunts her. It's heartbreaking: as a child, she was by far the sunniest, funniest, smartest of us. Now, though sober, she is an emotionally closed off solitary person with so much anger and fear and distrust in her heart. I consider what happened to her, his persecution of the beautiful child she was, by far my F's worst crime. I don't blame my M., I know she did her best, but I sometimes suspect I'm the only one of my siblings who really believes that. As terrible as my F. was to my M., unlike us kids, she could have chosen to leave. We'll never know what a different person my eldest S., especially, could have grown into without the constant negativity and a F. who ran her down and told her how unlovable she was from such a young age that she formed around that idea. This failure to protect her from our F. weighs heavily on S's relationship with our M., with so much resentment, guilt and anger just under the surface. I cringe just thinking about how they talk to each other--a nasty, bitter, mutual disrespect they don't turn on anyone else--during even a minor disagreement.

I'm not trying to compare that situation or my family to yours. You're the one who walks in your shoes, who knows what's best for you. Telling our story is a way to try to make something good come of it, and reminds me what a difficult choice my M. had to make.

Peace and all good things to you and your family, Sunny D.

Grateful (ex-member)

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: seastorm on January 15, 2007, 07:34:57 PM

Divine S,

What you have experienced sounds so familiar to me. It sounds like your life is a living hell. Your N husband calling 911 when you finally yelled at him. His penchant for alienating your children, his inappropriate relationship with his mother.  Things seem to be at the boiling point. Take very good care of yourself if you can.

You have gotten advice that is pure gold here. Only you know what will help and what you are able to do.

For me, I was encouraged to take action through contacfing a lawyer and getting advice and also to become very aware of what was happening financially. I was so beaten down and such a victim of gaslighting that I was almost incapable of doing anything. I was under psychiatric care and could no longer work because I was so stressed. Taking these small steps was empowering.

We broke up before I knew about Narcissism and what it means to have a partner who manipulates continually and shows no real empathy. It has been bruatally hard but I am at least on the road to healing.

Glad you are posting here and getting support.

Sea storm

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: CB123 on January 15, 2007, 07:44:21 PM

edit

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: pennyplant on January 15, 2007, 08:22:28 PM

Hi CB,

This right here:

That's a very big positive and one that could have only come about because I separated from his father at this point in the life of our family.  Would my other children have reaped those benefits if I had left earlier?  I just don't know.  I wasnt, then, who I am now.  The years that I waited built something in me that made me able to do this the way I am doing it now.  If I had done it 13 years ago, I might have been the flip side of a truly horrible experience.  I have very few illusions about the dysfunctions in people--even my own.

This is key.  Your kids needed you to be the best you possible for the separation to work.  That took time.  Life isn't easy but it could have been way worse if the mother of these great kids wasn't at her strongest.  You did good, CB.  I'm convinced of that.  I hope you will be too.  And your openness in helping them to heal in whatever ways each of them needs to heal is also an important key to this whole thing.

Each of us here should try to remember, we are all doing the very best we can when we can.  That counts for something.

Pennyplant

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: GAP on January 16, 2007, 12:11:46 AM

Dear CB,

I loved your post.  You are so right, once you have children with a narcissist you have begun a journey that will be difficult, unpredictable, and full of abuse.  Unless you have the ability to enter the witness protection plan, you and your children will continue to be hurt and abused no matter what decision you make.  My husband made my life so miserable I felt I had two choices:  jump out a window or get divorced.  It took a very long time and alot of abuse to get to that point, but when I reached it there was no turning back.  Everyone has there own breaking point, I will never judge another persons decision to stay or leave.  The joy of leaving is moments of peace and the ability to be once self without repercussions.

My most important goal in life is to raise healthy children that are able to see the red flags of unhealthy behavior and abuse and walk away from such people.   

GAP

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: axa on January 16, 2007, 05:51:45 AM

DS & CB

I read this thread today and I want to say that I think you guys are brave loving women and I am honoured to share this space with you.  I cannot imagine how your lives are but I hear how you love your children.  How you and they have experienced such horrible abuse and I consider a privelege to be witness to your recovery from the horror of narcissism.


with love and admiration

axa

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 16, 2007, 05:18:39 PM

Grateful ex, Seastorm, CB123, pennyplant, & GAP----You have all given me much to ponder.  You are angels--and I send you hugs and prayers.

axa---wow---humbly, truly, thanks---I needed that!

Namste,

Sunny D

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: CB123 on January 16, 2007, 05:21:10 PM

Thanks, Axa.  What encouraging words!

Sunshine--you're going to make it!

CB

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 17, 2007, 05:38:52 PM

Hey CB

You mention religious misogyny---which I had to look up.  And then I got chills.  You hit that right on the head for me as to why I think I may be dealing with so much of this right now.  We all,---- me, my husband, my FOO, and in-laws, were born and raised in a religion which operates on and breeds misogyny and feeds and breeds Nism.  IMO

Most people just think it is a religion, but anyone who has gotten "out" will tell you it is very cult-like.  And the women get the worst of it.  The men walk around thinking they are gods to the subservient women.  It is really sick.

I guess that is why I have stuck with my H for so long hoping to one day get through to him and lead him out.  We were peripheral "members".  As in, on their records, but not attending.  I didn't go cause it was a bunch of crap and I knew it and there was no way I would allow my kids to have their minds raped with it. ( Although mine WAS by both the "church" and my parents using it to feed their Nism.)

On the other  hand, H still believed, or claimed to,  and I had to keep my mouth shut until I felt the time was right.  It finally was right last year and he finally is listening to my feelings and the proof I can show him, I have been waiting to show him until the coast was clear, of how awful it is now and how awful it has been from the beginning.  (the religion).

 My FOO is beyond help.  My mother has used it to feed her Nism by being one of the few women in some sort of leadership within the church and the rest are too brainwashed to see---I don't have the time or energy.  So I cut ties with them.  And I stay with the H for now, cause every once in a while I see a glimmer of hope and wonder if maybe I can just get out of here and out from under the influence of this religion and HIS controlling FOO--he just might snap out of it.

I guess there is a part of me that still hopes.  Now he is finally showing progress, and yet it has been one of the most grueling years since we have tried to make sense of our lives and see through the brainwashing.  I feel I always saw through it, but did not dare speak, and he was VERY brainwashed. And didn't want to see.  It works well for some people, obviously.   It has been a long haul, and I hope he will pull himself out of it.  I can't drag him, I know that.  I really can't help but wonder how things could be different though.

Well anyway, you struck a chord with me there.  Sorry for the rant.  I don't even know if it makes any sense.  I realize there aren't so many who can relate to this.  Maybe on some level you can? 

How long were you married in all?  I think you are right, I worry about it the effects of leaving the children with their father when it is his turn, at least now I know he will not be abusing them with this religious cult.  He has at least come that far.  Maybe I stayed to make sure of that at least, right now I just don't know.  Takin' it day by day really.

Whew! 


Have a lovely day/evening.   Everyone.

Namste,

Sunny D

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: Hopalong on January 17, 2007, 11:08:24 PM

Hi Divine,
I can relate.
Although my grandfather was simply a fundamentalist preacher, I've been very close to people who have been enmeshed in, among other things, Mormonism, The Urantia Fellowship, Catholicism, an ashram (Kripalu) later disbanded due to guru-scandal. I had a close friend many years ago, a bright sweet architect, who went off and became a Moonie. Never seen or heard from him since, always made me very sad.

Thank you for sharing all that...I have some understanding of how painful the marks of systematic belief indoctrination can be. Especially when you come to consciousness and someone you love doesn't.

Hops

Title: Re: A small rant....they make me so MAD!!
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 19, 2007, 05:18:32 PM

Thanks Hop!

I realize not too many want to touch this one.  Thanks for validating!

So sorry to hear about your friend.  But I can totally see it happening.  I was born into and raised with the other M-word on your list.  Don't mean to be coy, just that it is a little embarrassing to admit for me.

My only solace is that I never believed or got involved with the practices, just went along as little as I could get away with so as not to rock the boat.  Basically haven't had much to do with it for 17 years since I moved out of my parents and got married as a "child-bride" of sorts.  But since I am totally surrounded by it and my husband still believed, I have't really been able to escape it either.  Just make sure it didn't gets it grip on my kids minds and emotions.  It is really the only thing I have ever put my foot down on with my husband.  He has just thought I was being a whiner about my parents emotional abuse with regards to the "church".

Not trying to offend anyone who might be involved or believe.  This has just been my presonal experience.  One impacted heavily by an N mother and husband.

Thanks again.  Have a good trip.  You are an angel.

Sunny D