Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: DivineSunshine on January 16, 2007, 05:13:38 PM

Title: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 16, 2007, 05:13:38 PM: Mirroring the N back to the N.

Anyone ever tried it???

I know, I know, it would be sick part to play. But I once heard, although probably not from a very reliable source, to win at "war" you need to be even more crazy, mean, loud, obnoxious, etc. than your opponent is crazy, mean, loud, obnoxious....

Now consider my source was the most ticked-off comedian I have seen lately. Louis Black (Probably why I like him---he says all those things I want to say with all the colorful language I probably wouldn't usually use) I might be mistaken. Ha ha! :lol:

Anyway, just a thought. NOT that I intend to try it, mind you. Tempting! :)

Laters,

Sunny D.
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 16, 2007, 06:20:56 PM: Now Divine Miss - mirroring the N back to the N is a great place to go for humor but wouldn't you be afraid you'ld get stuck that way? LOL - GS
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: WRITE on January 16, 2007, 06:23:31 PM: yes, I have been doing it for years. Not being mean, talking about NPD and pointing it out I mean.

On a good day my ex will even describe the N part of himself and talk about it.

Currently he's pretty okay because he's taking a/d s and life is going well.

But he also shifts position all the time and drops the meds and sinks into chronic depression too.

Though things seem very positive he never really changes much, he's learned all about NPD and all kinds of psychology, but it doesn't seem to change the fundamental place he's at, and his need for adulation and attention or reclusive solitude...

that's a personality disorder though isn't it, maladaptive behaviour resistant to change. He doesn't grow or learn much from anything and because he's pretty successful he doesn't think he needs to either.

It's very disappointing to spend much time with him- like being with someone 2 D, and after a while I start to feel 2 D too, like some of my realness has been sucked out!

I love him but I can't rely on him emotionally for anything for me; he doesn't even know me after 20 years of being married. And the worst bit of him hates me for seeing through the facade and to the real person inside.

Sometimes he seems like he's changed, and the last couple of years with therapy he's been better to deal with and learned some communication skills.

But unlike with other people mirroring only works to educate him or give hjim information; it changes nothing.
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: liberty on January 16, 2007, 07:01:43 PM: I have tried it with my Nmom. It made her hesitate and then she looked a bit confused. I understand how it works but in the past it has made me feel silly to actually be using her words and methods (i'm not 2 years old!) and so I stopped.

Lib
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: isittoolate on January 16, 2007, 08:52:53 PM: Ha Ha
I yelled and raged and cursed and swore, just like the N, and--he called me crazy.

Didn't think that he was though!

They just don't get it!

izzy
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: insomniac on January 16, 2007, 09:10:15 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on January 16, 2007, 08:52:53 PM
Ha Ha
I yelled and raged and cursed and swore, just like the N, and--he called me crazy.

Didn't think that he was though!

They just don't get it!

izzy

That's funny--when I tried mirroring my ex I was called crazy too! It amazed me how I could act like my ex, and he would complain to me, so I would point out to him that was what he always did to me. Of course, he could either not recognize it, or never admit it if he did.
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: gratitude28 on January 16, 2007, 10:07:11 PM: This is kind of on subject... I used to take the oppostie stance of whatever she said or did. It just made her all the more sure of her convictions (since, thank God, I am nothing like her... her thoughts). She never even listened to what I said. I couldn't understand for years why she said the same things again and again even when I told her I didn't like/believe in them.
When I found out about the Nism... I kind of set out to see if I could set her off. I would talk about things that bored her with my dad. It's weird, though, I wasn't able to piss her off. She only pulls those tricks when you don't expect them, it seems. (Or when she can get away with it????). Her behavior is so random, I am not sure she would get it. She thinks her behavior is right and normal, so I would just be acting the correct way if I were being like her.
Does this make any sense??? Sorry to blab.
Love, Beth
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: seastorm on January 17, 2007, 01:29:04 AM: I don't think evey N is the same. There are other aspecits to each one.
Yelling back could escalate the anger and really get violent. Meeting defensive behaviour with defensive behaviour makes things worse.
I found that when I said loudly, "Stop it. I'm not putting up with this" and leaving was good.
Managing my own behaviour was the best medicine. Not getting triggered by the denigration and arrogance.
It helped to reallize that he couldn't really understand what I was talking about because he doesn't empathize and this screws up his ability to even process language. Meaning: he doesn't get it.
I learned , too late, to recognize that if I critcized him, then he would put it right back ie. I would say I feel frustrated when you dont do the laundry.... He would say " Well! you don't know what frustration is lady, I am even MORE frustrated with you because you ........ He could not deal with any issue. EVER. He would sort of slide around verbally and it did not make sense. Then he would say. I need time to think about this or ... I can't come up with an answer right now: on command.

Very strange communication style. I listen to it and have learned what the patterns are.

Oh yes, if you yell back at him, he can say that you MAKE him angry and he has no choice but to be angry.

Good grief......
Sea storm
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Leah on January 17, 2007, 01:43:30 PM: Quote
He actually started out disagreeing with me, switched to my position, and then pretended like I disagreed with him!!! At first it made me mad, but eventually I just started laughing when he did it. Not because it was funny, but because it was so stupid.

CB

I had that too! and also ....... this drove me up the wall ........ I would have an idea, express it, and, hope for interactive engaging discussion (always had hope!) and next thing you know, he would express MY idea!! but he thought of it !! He would repeatedly say that he thought of it .......... and worst of all, he belived it and would tell others of HIS idea.

Can't find the words to explain how I felt inside ...... crazymaking and gaslighting spring to mind.

He knew what he was doing to me ......... that sneaky smile !!

Leah
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: moonlight52 on January 17, 2007, 01:59:23 PM: Hi seastorm,
I am understanding codependency recovery and so many new ways to be strong .
Rule number one is no contact this has been made perfectly clear and I am sure the phone calls will stop.
Simply not answering is good and caller Id .........In my case its so over...

Quote from: seastorm on January 17, 2007, 01:29:04 AM
I found that when I said loudly, "Stop it. I'm not putting up with this" and leaving was good.
Managing my own behavior was the best medicine. Not getting triggered by the denigration and arrogance.

makes good sense no more manipulations etc....
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: CB123 on January 17, 2007, 02:22:07 PM: ed
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 17, 2007, 04:46:17 PM: You guys are all crackin' me up! At least we can look at it with some bit of humor. Means we are getting better. Better at dealing and better with understanding the games and how they are played. And how to opt OUT! When and if needed.

How about becoming as self-centered, arrogant, pompous, egotistical, god/goddess-like, ETC (you know where I am going with this) as THEY are!

Probably cause we can't--it's not in our nature----that's why they chose us----- or use it on us (whatever the case may be). Yes?

These people are like watching the Gaston character from Beauty and the Beast(Disney version), or Denny Crane (Boston Legal), or Sam Malone(Cheers). Or maybe J. R. Ewing(Dallas)? I can't think of anymore off-hand. I know there are tons in movies and TV. These I think of cause they are some of my NH's favorite characters--he always chuckles --and says---"I LIKE HIM!" It's also who I feel like I live with most of the time. Choose any one. Then I feel like I am just watching TV. :? Right?

Not able to think of good ones for the women characters--although I know there are many. More queenly/ witchy types maybe for them.

Any more funny characters you guys can think of?

Have a great day all!
Peace & Namaste
Sunny D
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Hopalong on January 18, 2007, 08:01:38 AM: It's not terribly funny, except in spots, but it's brilliantly done...
the movie The Squid and the Whale is about a narcissist father (I think intentionally).

No violence or raging, but he has every hallmark. It's told from the child's point of view.

GOOD movie.

Hops
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: pennyplant on January 18, 2007, 12:40:09 PM: 6) Jack on Pirates of the Caribbean:

You're the worst pirate I've ever heard of!

Ah, but you have heard of me!

One of my favorite movie lines ever--I sure hope Johnny Depp isn't too N in real life.

Pennyplant
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: reallyME on January 18, 2007, 01:48:39 PM: Yes I have done that. In the later part of a relationship with one. The mirroring made this person react in defense and denial, actually.

This person got pretty much angry and told me "oh that's not what I mean at all...I'm sorry if you took it that way." (remember, it's never "I'm sorry I hurt you, I'm sorry I did that" it's always put on YOU for "taking it that way") see the difference?
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: gratitude28 on January 18, 2007, 07:19:28 PM: How about the Great Santini????
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 19, 2007, 05:29:08 PM: Checking the Great Santini out. Thanks gratitude 28!

That's one I haven't seen yet.

More men:

Ron Burgundy--Anchorman Will Ferrell
Bruce Nolan--Bruce Almighty--Jim Carrey
Batman--choose any portrayal
The Office--Steve Carrell ---michael
DARTH VADER----Couldn't resist this one!

Sorry this is getting old, but I am trying to think of women, and I come up blank. Just keep remembering the men characters.

As CB said, any step-mother or queen in any fairy tale or disney movie. My favorite: Snow White's Mom---you know "mirror, mirror on the wall....." Yuck yuck yuckity yuck. I wasn't snow white, but that was my mom for sure.

Sunny D
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: moonlight52 on January 19, 2007, 08:35:54 PM: You could just hand them the mirror and walk away.
m
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Guest day on January 19, 2007, 09:53:45 PM: I have tried it and it works great!

By "works great" I mean that I've successfully scared them off by just acting like them. They are now afraid to contact me... or maybe just can't be bothered. Who knows. Whatever their thinking, the outcome was perfect.
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: gratitude28 on January 22, 2007, 01:10:36 AM: Aunt Spiker and Aunt Sponge in James and the Giant Peach...
Mathilda's parents in Mathilda
Veruca Salt!!!!
Roald Dahl must have had something about narcissists...

My son would explain EAXCTLY how Darth became that way :)
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Stormchild on January 22, 2007, 07:56:18 AM: Harry Potter's aunt, uncle, and cousin, whose names escape me now.
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: DivineSunshine on January 23, 2007, 02:05:42 PM: Good ones, guys!

I watched The Devil Wears Prada last night while I sat up and helped my daughter with her Science Project (moral support mostly)...

...so how 'bout Miranda Priestly???? Holy Cow! Great job Meryl Streep!

A quote I can't get out of my head---"she isn't happy unless everyone around her is panicked, nauseous, or suicidal."

The scene where she arrives at her office for the first time and everyone is rushing around in a panic getting the office "just right"? Lived that one a million times when I know NH is coming home. He was watching at the end of the movie and only scoffed cause he thought Miranda's asisstant 's boyfriend was being ridiculous for being angry that she was totally ignoring him. She is running herself ragged trying to keep the "woman" (monster) happy. Just like he thinks I am being ridiculous when I tell him he completely ignores me and the kids unless he wants something or is raging because someone inadvertently did some small normal-type thing to tick him off!

Also, remind anyone of their mother???

Blah!

Peace anyway,
Sunny D
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Overcomer on January 23, 2007, 06:59:28 PM: The "best friend" of the Count of Monte Cristo.................who married the Count's girlfriend who was pregnant with the Count's child after he had the Count wrongfully imprisoned for 12 years.......he got his in the end. I have been trying to not wish a similar fate on my n's........

The mother in Terms of Endearment.......same actress played Meryl Streep's mother in some other movie I can't remember the name of...........oldtimers moment.

I mirror my Nmom ALL the time. And then when she tells me how horrible I am acting, I tell her....................I'm just mirroring what you do to me......right back at ya!!

Even use the word "mirror."
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Overcomer on January 23, 2007, 08:41:52 PM: Yep, Shirley MacLaine..................but what was that movie with she and Meryl Streep? They were both actesses................oh yeah, Postcards from the Edge!! Sometimes I feel like I am on the edge!!!! I can relate to the mother - she is so all about herself...............just like my nmom. Oh and guess what? For another post.........didn't make a profit!
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: gratitude28 on January 23, 2007, 09:25:52 PM: Except the character in In Her SHoes changes at the end and becomes a kinder person...
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: CB123 on January 23, 2007, 09:31:28 PM: That's the fairy tale, isnt it?

The one we keep believing in....

CB
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: Stormchild on January 23, 2007, 10:19:10 PM: ... the one we've been trained and groomed to believe in, because it makes us succulent N fodder ...

[edit in. Dang! What a screen name that would have been... "Succulent N-Fodder" ! Kinda slinky, isn't it?]
Title: Re: Mirroring the N back to the N
Post by: reallyME on January 25, 2007, 11:10:53 AM: Another old movie with an Nistic mother in it, was ORDINARY PEOPLE. The N-mother was played by Mary Tyler Moore, and she did an excellent job in it, if I do say so myself :)

Devil Wears Prada was an EXCELLENT movie and very much depicted N'ism as well.