Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: liberty on January 20, 2007, 11:45:28 AM
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HI all,
I've been reading several posts that have mentioned the way the N's voice sounds. I have heard it described as strange, cold, harsh......
I have always said about my Nmom that the worst part of dealing with her is listening to her voice. To me, regardless of what she says, even if it is the nicest, sweetest thing in the world (yeah right!), her voice sounds so harsh and filled with disdain that this is all that ever comes through.
It was her voice more than anything else that conveyed to me her coldness towards me and her lack of love.
Liib
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Absolutely Lib,
It's their tone of voice. Like, when I asked Nmom "why are you yelling at me" and she'd yell "I'm not yelling at you".
The words spoken and the tone of voice do not match. As a child, it was very confusing. Kinda like gaslighting.
But, I don't think Ns are aware that their tone and words are opposite.
But, hell, Ns are just unaware, period.
dazed
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Oh my.
My experiences have been kind of different.
Most of the Ns I've known have had these peppy chirpy chipper bouncy voices, when they're performing for others.... on the phone... etc.
But when nobody else is around and the mask drops, they hiss when they talk [all the S's are Sssssss's] and talk through clenched teeth a lot, and so on.
I've become really mistrustful of peppy chirpy chipper bouncy voices... I always expect there will be another shoe, and I just watch for it to drop.
And the eyes. It's like looking into a pair of marbles, for all the depth and warmth you see there.
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But when nobody else is around and the mask drops, they hiss when they talk [all the S's are Sssssss's]
I believe the Sssssss's are a result of them flicking their forked tongues out to judge how far the distance they'll need to strike, while they're simultaneously ranting about what vile serpents we are.
and talk through clenched teeth a lot, and so on.
Actually herpetoligists usually refer to them as clenched "fangs".
mud
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This is the post!! I can totally relate to this way of communicating. Boy, get the n against you and the fangs, venom, manipulation, anger, bitterness etc. gets spewn all over you!
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and the thing is, they're going to be against you no matter what, because that is what they do...
((((((((((kell))))))))))
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Prime example... this summer my sister's husband's uncle died (his mom's sister...). So we're in the car going up to see them and my mother is saying in a nasty voice, "Well, she's got other brothers, doesn't she?" I mean, my jaw about dropped to the floor. When we got to the house and saw the family she was dripping with concern and running around saying, "Oh... I remember we were just talking about him last week. Isn't he the one you were telling us so much about?"
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You know, this is one case where I am all in favor of camera phones and nannycams. wouldn't it be lovely to put together a bunch of home videos of THIS stuff, 'what she's like when YOU AREN'T LOOKING' and send it to the whole family.
Not that it would change anything, but wouldn't it FEEL good.
For a little while, anyway. :roll:
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I agree Stormy. No one would believe the way my Nmom speaks to me. It's as though she spits out acid. As Dazed said, the tone and the words don't match.
I have been discussing with my H, that I should get a recorder and start taping conversations with my Nmom.
Now because I told her that she should not call me unless she wants to find out how I'm doing, she calls (every day!) in a stiff, unfriendly, robotic voice , as though she is straining to hold back the contempt she feels for me and says :"Well I'm just calling to see how you all are" I tell her we are good and then she says: "OK well I'm going now." and ends the conversation. That's it! So now no one can say that she does not call to see how I'm going but her tone is so horrible that even this is like a slap in the face.
I always ask myself what she could possibly get from doing that. If she does not like me or enjoy talking to me then why does she call?
It's sick.
Lib
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Hi Lib,
She is profoundly distorted and confused inside.
She has no idea what a poor mother she's been.
She's toxic and she's desperate. She's sort of like a crocodile.
I am going to hazard something that doesn't quite fit in recent discussion:
I think perhaps it is also a flicker of mother love in her that is prompting her to call and obey your instructions. In addition to her trying to protect a source of supply.
I don't think that flicker will ever be a warm flame.
But I think it could be in there along with all the rest.
Simply my experience talking, that's reallly all we have to offer that's autoritative.
hugs,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
She is profoundly distorted and confused inside.
She has no idea what a poor mother she's been.
She's toxic and she's desperate. She's sort of like a crocodile.
I think that she calls me because no one else would tolerate what I've tolerated from her in the past. I was so well trained to mirror her positively. You are right. She is protecting supply but she is sooooo toxic that she can't hide her internal nastiness.
Perhaps there is a flicker of motherly love but it is so lost inside of there that to find it one would have to sacrifice one's entire being and dive headfirst into the abyss.
My big question has been: Where does your responsibility for the welll being of another human being end? I answer it by thinking of this situation.
If someone I loved was at risk for heart disease and they told me and I empathized. Then without their asking, I decided to do all the relevant research, gave the information to them, found ways that they could improve their diet and exercise routines, and still that person decided to do nothing but continue in their ways and then they got sick and died.
I could tell myself that perhaps if I had agreed to visit and exercise with that person then I might have saved them. But where did my responsibility really end? I think it would have ended when they told me and I empathized.
You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Neither is it your responsibility to make it drink or perhaps not even to lead it to the water. I think that you should wait for the horse to ask for water and then decide if you are able to point it in the right direction without harming yourself.
My key is that she is not asking for my help (because nothing is wrong with her) so why should I feel that it is my repsonsiblity to help someone who does not want my help. It's sad but everyone has to write their own life story.
I know this is not what you were implying Hopsy but I just got to thinking and my thoughts just started to flow. Thanks for your kind words. :D
Lib
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I agree with you totally, Lib.
I also agree with the stance of "divorcing" a parent who's been so destructive...totally.
I don't mention the flicker to induce guilt or suggest that anybody, ever, should increase their exposure to anyone who has hurt them so and shows no signs of real change.
I'd defend that boundary too, and I'm glad you are.
I only mention the flicker because sometimes I want to humanize Ns.
(Not get anywhere NEAR them...but humanize them, because it makes my brain work better.)
love,
Hops
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I was trying to make sense of what my N spouse was saying so I decided to get a tape recorder. I thought if I taped a conversation then I could better udnerstand underlying themes etc. So I told him and we started talking. He tood the recorder and he smashed it and said that he was not having anyone taping him.
I think he knew how malevolent he was and he didn't want any evidence. He had me thinking everything was my fault at that point.
The sound of his voice being contemptuous was really painful. He also had an entiltled, demanding sort of voice that got me acting like a servant to him. Now I would thing it was assinine hopefully. I am pretty vulnerable to the sound of contempt in a person's voice. I really can't stand it. Heard too much as a kid.
Sea storm
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I have heard how N moms speak to their children. Experience I had on the phone while my friend was having birthday cake for her children. This is when she still lived with her husband.
Picture this.
Sitting at the kitchen table with candles going.
Mom. F U to her husband cause he didn't do what she wanted.
Dad. F U back
Mom to kids. Will You sit the F’Down. So and so get me the F’ing plates.
Then song
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOOO YOU! Applause and yeahhhh!!!
Let me go. I'll call you back in a few Min's.
All I could say was Ummm.
One thing I would like to ask you all. What is the purpose of this.
One day my friend was talking to me. Like I say to my kids too (did you hear what I said) they would respond with yessssssss. With a drawn out yes you know what I mean. Hers did the same but I would hear her say, yes what, they would say a simple yes short and simple and she would say, yes what, she would not let them go till they said yesssssss mommy. Why did they have to say mommy. Almost reminded me of mommy dearest.
Deb
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edit
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Deb,
Those poor kids. I think language like that is brutalizing, even though it's everywhere. But little kids know, still at some deep level, how magical and powerful and elemental language is. When they could hear affection, humor, poetry, heroism...they hear this mother? :( (I'm not for censorship, btw. I even think the f-word is an excellent word. Great power and pungency. For that reason, I think it's best said about once a year or two. Preferably when very heavy object has been dropped on toe.)
CB,
That recording story is soooo revealing. Wow. It's as though the N's inner monologue is so loud they can't even hear themselves lie. Gosh. Thanks for sharing that anecdote. It was as though he didn't even remember something he'd said just a few minutes before, and was amazed that other people would actually expect him to be accountable for it.
In a weird way that story gives me a new insight on how horribly chaotic it must be inside the mind of a narcissist.
Hops