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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: gratitude28 on January 24, 2007, 11:48:02 PM

Title: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: gratitude28 on January 24, 2007, 11:48:02 PM

Here's another big issue that has unfolded for me lately, and I am betting some of you can relate... I always feel like I have to be the one to hold relationships (friendships, keeping up with in-laws and relatives, etc) up and keep them going. No matter what is going on in my life, I feel guilty if I am not keeping up with other people. And, the biggest thing is, these people are not necessarily keeping up with me at all, but I feel that I have somehow slacked off by letting the relationships go... or not having written in a while, etc...

The biggest one, of course, for the longest time, was with my parents. I felt guilty for moving away, so I religiously called every weekend and wrote emails once a week or so. They dutifully talked to me. It took me all this time (more than 15 years) to realize that I was the ONLY ONE keeping up the relationahip. They don't call. They don't write (unless my mother is in one of her flowery, poetic, let's- pretend -I- am -the- queen- mom- and -you -are- my- disciple- daughter- and -I -am -writing- from- far -away moods). Never do they call and ask how I am or if I need anything or am I lonely. When I had my daughter (second child, 1st was still a baby), my husband left right away and I was at home alone. I was always afraid the older baby would hurt the little one and I was also worried about him because he was sad and scared with the new baby and dad gone. Parents came to see the new baby and left after two days. Mother had no work, nothing to do, but it never crossed her mind to help. I was lonely and cried a lot.

I freak out if I haven't written to friends... even if I haven't heard from them. I feel I am letting them down and I have been lazy and remiss. I have one situation in particular, a certain friend who doesn't keep up but pops into my life every year or so. It's not that I need these friendships. It is the angst I suffer feeling that I HAVE NOT CARRIED THROUGH.

This is my whole thing. I realize that I do not control these relationships. Part of me wants to sweep them all off the table and be a hermit.

Does anyone relate??? Anyone working through this????

I wish I could be like my husband. He and his best friend talk once every year to two years. They check in... are you alive? Everything OK? OK, bud, see ya when I see ya. And we see each other here and there around the world and all is good. LOL or is that just a man thing???

Thanks!!!
Love, Beth

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: gratitude28 on January 24, 2007, 11:50:42 PM

Please let me add that I do this also with smaller relationships... like friends near me. I feel guilty when a week or two has passed and I haven't called... even if they haven't called either.

Again, what makes me think I need to keep everything going????

Love, Beth

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: isittoolate on January 25, 2007, 12:20:44 AM

GUILT?

hi Beth,

Fear of abandonment? Loneliness?

With slightly different wording, that could be me.
In the end do you feel like a nuisance? I do!
Even though my email has not been answered, I feel I ought to write again! Why????
I know some on email who seldom turn on the computer (one said about every 4 months) How can I keep track??? Lordy, a Season is only THREE months long!

Another thing is that I write about things, but being I'm alone there is nothing earth shattering, so I feel I have bored them to death, but never received the Notice!

Then sometimes I get 'pissed off', say to hell with them, and the next day I write.

Whatever the topic, someone is thinking of us when they write..................then it depends on what we want to hear from them?

Love
Izzy

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: gratitude28 on January 25, 2007, 12:43:17 AM

Sometimes I think it does boil down to boredome, Iz. And sometimes I am the one bored. But I seem to be unable to let it go, even if I don't want to keep it up. Do I care about being abandoned? I don't know. Sometimes I was to make them all go away and just start over and pick and choose the people that would be good for me. Maybe that is why I feel bad... in some cases, I have grown, and they just haven't.
Thanks for the thoughts, Iz. Thanks for the firecrackers too!!!
Love, Beth

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: isittoolate on January 25, 2007, 12:59:25 AM

hi Beth,
Well there you go------communicatiom---------- tossing out ideas---and of course, one grows and moves on and another stays in a rut, losing anything in common. I've had it happen to me .........and forgot!

I mentioned abandoned for if someone didn't write to you!!!

I've had a chance, as you mentioned, to pick and choose my 'friends. It is good for me. Not socializing good friends, but good acquaintances at work. Then I leave and come home.

I am ruling my own roost, for now. NO ONE tells me what to do. I was controlled for too long, and now I feel I ought to have a say in my life---right down to how I squeeze the toothpaste tube!

So you find the people here good to be with? I do. It has made a world of difference in my mood, from having joined voicelessness. I might not have anythiing to say to all posts, but when one rings home, I like to respond.

Cheers!

xx
Izzy
More fireworks... am off to watch a DVD. Nighty nighy but no nightie to nighty.

(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/purple_flash.gif)

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: Dazed1 on January 25, 2007, 01:36:35 AM

Hi Beth,

Your parents sound oblivious to your needs. There you were, alone, husband gone, 2 very small children and they failed to give you support. You must have felt very scared, lonely and abandoned. I’m sorry you had to go through this (((((((Beth))))))).

After my dad died, my grandparents stayed with my foo for 1 week, then they went back to their home 2000 miles away. They were retired, so they had no jobs to return to. We asked them to stay longer, but they refused and left.

After that, we realized that my grandparents were disinterested and limited people, incapable of giving support or understanding our pain. Your parents sound similar. We can’t change these people, only they can change themselves and it is unlikely to happen.

Regarding your other question about you feeling like it is your duty to keep a relationship going, I think you’ve answered your own question: Guilt and angst. You pretty much said that guilt and angst propel you to keep a relationship going even if the other person is inactive in the relationship.

I also agree with Izzy: Fear of abandonment and loneliness also propel you to do this.

Beth, you are a loving, intelligent, caring and funny person and you deserve friends who reciprocate your friendship.

So, you gotta find people that you like who reciprocate your friendship. And, I know it’s hard to meet like minded people, but give it a try by joining a club or group you enjoy. Check out Meetup.com in your area or start a group of your own.

I’m in the same boat. I want to meet people that I actually enjoy being with and it’s hard. Nonetheless, I keep trying.

Love,
dazed

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: Dazed1 on January 25, 2007, 01:41:31 AM

Izzy,

I'm so glad you're here to.

"No nighty tonight"? You racy thang!!

Enjoy the DVD.

dazed

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: pennyplant on January 25, 2007, 08:52:53 PM

I'm kind of in transition with this particular part of my life. I have had many good friends throughout life, but hardly anyone has lasted my entire life. I've moved on, others have moved on without me. During some phases of my life, I've been very sociable, during other times, I've been alone and lonely. More often the latter I think. There have even been a few times that I've been clingy. Not many of those, since I'm more of an individualist, but I recognize it has happened.

Right now, I just don't have the energy to hold up more than half of a relationship. That is something of a built-in boundary for me I guess. I barely have the energy to take care of my half of it sometimes!! By energy I mean emotional and psychological energy. I kind of think it might be a phase of development that I'm going through now that I have lifted away the protective layers and have started to get to the real and sadly under-developed "me". The little one who didn't get to grow up with the proper amount of love and safety and freedom.

Sometimes lately I think of myself as starting over again as a toddler. During that phase of childhood, when I should have been getting lost in discovery of myself and then gradually the world around me, I was instead being molded into someone who could be convenient for my parents. Overly aware of their needs and requirements. Underly aware of my own. Having to be socially aware before I was socially able. I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Anyway, perhaps your awareness of the inequalities and the burden of needing to be the more responsible one is the next step on the way to mutuality and good quality friendships. It sounds lke you have already made the good friends. So, the poorer ones may fall away naturally. I do think guys have the right idea about how much together time is really necessary. Together or apart, talking or not talking, the bonds can still exist. The guys who know this really have the right idea. Maybe it is more of a guy thing. No reason, though, we gals can't take the best of that and make it our own!!!!

This is a topic I'm really interested in but still kind of immersed in. So, I don't have much in the way of concrete examples to offer. I do think it is an internal thing. You know, maybe you won't feel so overly responsible as you continue to "firm up" on the inside. That seems to be how it is happening with me, anyway. Working on my inside seems to lead to my outside taking care of itself.

Here's one idea--maybe it is a bad tape in your head causing you to worry about the friendships slipping away if you don't try hard enough. Maybe a new tape would help. Samples:

"I have many good friends"

"I am a very good friend to have"

"My friends are right here in my heart all the time"

Just something simple and true that you could tell yourself when you start to worry about how much time between phone calls or emails has elapsed. Really, just bringing this up on here will probably help you a lot. One of the cooler things about VESMB....

Love, Pennyplant

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: Stormchild on January 25, 2007, 08:58:59 PM

I tend to lose friends because I get sucked into some N quagmire, or a job that eats my life, and I basically disappear... or because my life gets sucky for years, and people just can't deal with that.

Which I know, so these days, when it starts to get sucky, I quit communicating, figuring I'll check back in when things improve.

Of course, a decade can go by [and HAS!] without anything improving. And there I be, beside myself, but not next to anyone else.

Still haven't figured out how to deal with this one. Getting a life that never sucks would solve it perfectly, but I have the sneaking suspicion that option ain't on the table... :roll:

Edit in: oh, and...

I'm single and over forty, so a lot of people think I must be gay, which I am not. When I am friendly to a woman, I can see the wheels revolving... lately I've put a picture of my ex up in my office. Sad, to have to do something like that, even if he was a hunk and a half, at least to look at.

... and ... a lot of people just don't want to invest the time. it's hideously congested where I live. A five mile drive can take an hour... it's such a thrash that many folks can't be bothered. quite honestly, i've developed some of that myself... one too many obnoxious car trips through hideous traffic to attend a party where everyone only talks to people they already know.

i think an awful lot of frienships are built on little more than proximity or convenience... :cry:

Edit edit in in: about not communicating when things get sucky.

I put up a post twice today, here, and took it down again, because it was about a situation where I felt vulnerable and unsupported... there weren't many folks around either time, and I didn't get many responses. So I pulled the thread, twice.

It's the same exact thing, now that I look at it. Not communicating when things get sucky, because I don't really believe I'll get any support.

Thanks, BTW, to the folks who were here then and did post. No poke at you intended. I'm trying to figure out my OWN quirk, here.

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: isittoolate on January 25, 2007, 09:18:29 PM

((((((((((((((Stormchild)))))))))))))))))

Am I the oldest one here. at 67?

Your time will come. All the crap i went through was because of an N dad (I didn't know) and a whole bunch of others things--falling into traps--- that N sister etc.

Finally the psychopath took the cake ( and almost my soul) and I decided I better look at myself.

So that's what I'm doing and maybe I can dance with glee on my own grave that I died happy!

In my self-search I realized how many toxic people had been in my life. Now not many people would approve of my being a recluse, in a wheelchair yet, but I did that on purpose, no socializing, nothing but work/business while I got my life on straight.

..............a bit like having my own room in an asylum with no visitors! Time to thnk!

Can you pick out all the toxic people in your life??? That's a place to start.

Chin Up
Izzy
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/lily_v.gif)

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: gratitude28 on January 25, 2007, 09:18:41 PM

I'm going to work backwards here... Yes, Storm, I rarely write or contact friends when things are not going well. Or if nothing is going on. I guess the overall relationship-thing has shown me that when my life is difficult, people run away. So I don't let them get to hear anything but chipper anymore. So, yes, that does limit my contact in and of itself. What's the point and what's the bother???

Penny, once again, I get the feeling you and I are at about EXACTLY the smae place:

Right now, I just don't have the energy to hold up more than half of a relationship. That is something of a built-in boundary for me I guess. I barely have the energy to take care of my half of it sometimes!! By energy I mean emotional and psychological energy. I kind of think it might be a phase of development that I'm going through now that I have lifted away the protective layers and have started to get to the real and sadly under-developed "me". The little one who didn't get to grow up with the proper amount of love and safety and freedom.

This is JUST what I was trying to express but didn't get it out as clearly.

Maybe I was looking for absolution of a sort. I don't know.

In one of my books, the author talks about the person who spends so much time trying to hold everything together for everyone... and that when she finally lets go of that control, things fall apart. As they were meant to. And everyone picks up their pieces and reorganizes them and things are better than they were before. I think I am still trying to hold things together (an illusion???)

Thanks for some good thoughts.

Love, Beth

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: gratitude28 on January 25, 2007, 09:20:29 PM

Stormy,
You aren't happy??? Oh... you mean THAT gay!!! Hee hee.
Aren't people a hoot???? You need to start blowing kisses at people indiscriminately.
OH MY LORD.
Love, Beth

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: Stormchild on January 25, 2007, 09:33:12 PM

Beth, Izzy --

Hugs to you both. Nice platonic hugs.

Which is not to diss anyone who is different from me. Everyone should be able to be who they are, here.

Moving right along...

that's interesting Beth. Know what? That's my answer, but I don't know what to do with it.

You said... 'when my life is difficult, people run away."

Yep. The Stormchild version goes:

When my life was difficult, people ran away. Always and without exception.
So now, when my life is difficult, I RUN AWAY FIRST, because I know that is all I can expect from people, so I might as well get it over with.

Iz: at the moment I've eliminated all toxic people from my life by the simple expedient of not having ANY people in my life. Pretty much like you. I have a few occasional contacts with folks at a distance, mainly by email, and I have some cyberfriends, but realspace I've just about emptied out.

I used to dread that this would happen, but once it arrived, it has been strangely welcome.

I think I hijacked here. :oops: sorry!

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: gratitude28 on January 25, 2007, 09:42:38 PM

Nah, I don't believe in hijacking. Any topic that veers off is great because it made associations for someone.

I think as a kid if I had a problem, my parents answered with a resounding, "Oh well, that's why life sucks." And that's their answer now too. So, it never helped to have a heart-to-heart with them.

I wasn;t a very good friend in high school or college because I had no role models for friendship. I did start to learn to listen to people (to an extent) but not those who should have been dear to me.

Now... well... I do have some good friends. But I don't know that I would ever again "burden someone" with my problems. I am not sure they would need to hear it or care. Or maybe I am trying to hold on to too much again. Even in AA, though, I feel I have to be the good example, and I rarely share about difficulties. That is why when I share here on the board and everyone really helps, I am stunned and pleased... and at the same time upset that I caused so much bother and I want to leave the board because I feel I am taking up too much from others.

Well, thanks for letting me blab...

Love, Beth

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: debkor on January 25, 2007, 10:41:14 PM

When you say friends I think back to my childhood and teen years. Those were truly my most important friends. As we grew older we all grew apart. Moves, like and dislikes, new adventures, deaths, etc.. When I think of them I feel warm. I smile and laugh to myself thinking of my younger years. I'm smiling now just talking about them. Life moved on and we allowed each other to without any guilt. If I really think about it are they long gone? No. They will always be with me right here in my heart. I have friends now that I hold near and dear to my heart but never like my childhood ones.

Love
Deb

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: Hopalong on January 25, 2007, 11:29:15 PM

PP,

You express yourself with such elegance and grace.
You make enormous sense.

You do more than that, you really illuminate things.

Thanks, dear.

Hops

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: isittoolate on January 25, 2007, 11:33:19 PM

don't you EVER think about leaving here, Beth
...or I'll hunt you down and drag you back by the heels!

Sometimes I think that people think a good acquaintance is a friend. Basically we are lucky if we have one good lasting friend in a lifetime. I've had many acquaintances, and I think these are the people with whom I would NEVER share my baggage. The only people who understand are those who have been through the same manure pile and jumped into the bathtub...

To those of you who feel like running away, backing off, whatever, that was my frame of mind when I was diagnosed with AvPD. I don't think I would complete that psychiatrist's form the same way now. I would likely be Schizoid---solitude on purpose.

This after noon I had a telephone call from Kansas. She and her husband used to triple with us (the otherGal is in Calgary) so 6 of us, and we met in 1961---- we are not always in touch, maybe once a year, year ½, but it's like no time has passed.

The gal who babysat my daughter when she was little-- began 1967--we are always in touch.

..and what this tells me is that the friends I made back then are the solid ones and at my age now, it likely is impossible to find another senior citzen who knows all the 'crap', I know and have been through.

...I think it is awesome the sharing and support that takes place on this board. I really do!!
I
Z
Z
Y

Title: Re: Relationships; Why The Need To Support?
Post by: pennyplant on January 26, 2007, 02:35:07 AM

Thanks, Hopsy, for the nice compliment.

Stormy, I do think certain places are far harder than others for all kinds of reasons such as the ones you listed. At work yesterday I talked with a customer who lives here only because his wife is from here. He mentioned how unfriendly a place he has found it. I told him I'm from here and find it to be this way also. When I hear people say that they find it friendly here, I always wonder, Wow, where are you from that you think it is friendly here? Cause it just ain't so. I've been to places, and lived in places, where it is friendly or at least laid back and people let you be. I think this place where I'm from is a Narcissistic Place. Or a Voiceless Place where people are always in some kind of defensive mode.

My son told me the other day that he remembers how bad it felt to him when we moved back here. He was born in Virginia while my husband was in the Navy and so is the only member of our family who is not from here. When we came back, he was only seven and he noticed immediately the negative atmosphere all around us. It took him a long time to get used to it. I hadn't known he felt that way until he told me that this week. Pretty insightful. He has always been able to see right to the crux of a thing, though. He hopes we leave this area some day. I'm a little torn about that myself. Starting over again, again, when we're nearing 50? That seems like a hard thing to do. Maybe we'll figure it out somehow, though.

Stormy, it's really hard for me to reach out too. The times when I do are when I feel I am really in need, and that is when it seems like nobody is there. At least with this place, if someone doesn't respond cyberly, there is probably a non-personal reason for it. Maybe that is true in 3-D life too, but how would you ever know for sure? People aren't always honest about things. I think it is a real gift for someone to be able to say, I do care, but I don't know how to show it.

Deb and Izzy, friends from our younger days--yes, they can't really be duplicated. I don't know if it is because we are more open to it in youth, more hopeful, more dependent, or what. Life itself seems to get in the way for even the luckiest of people. Throw in some real problems along the way or like with us, some awakenings, and you've got many, many extra hurdles to overcome.

Hey, Beth, you know, we do have a lot in common. You inspire me, too, and that's quite the big deal! Just think how very lonely I would be feeling right now to be up at 2:25 am and not have this place and these people to talk to about such important things. I can't even imagine a life without this group. We're making our own kind of support and it's getting us through.

Well, pretty soon I better try to sleep again. Another busy day at work looms ahead. If things are hard at work that colors everything else, for sure.

Good night, or good morning, whichever fits.

Love, Pennyplant