Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: CB123 on January 26, 2007, 08:46:20 AM

Title: The other half of mediation
Post by: CB123 on January 26, 2007, 08:46:20 AM

ed

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Hopalong on January 26, 2007, 09:49:25 AM

CB,
Rushing out the door, just want to say, I see it too.

Your ex is for me a walking example of the danger in literal interpretations of sexist ancient texts. No disrespect to anyone's faith but this danger to women who accede in innocence and good faith is what most scalded me about my childhood religious teaching.

I awakened from that, too, as from an N trance.

love,
Hops

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: towrite on January 26, 2007, 11:34:58 AM

"An unexamined life is a wasted life" ... Plato

(((((((((CB))))))))

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: debkor on January 26, 2007, 12:50:52 PM

Ah geeze, I’m sorry you are going through this.  So you have angered the Jerk for taking control of your own life and happiness.  It amazes me how they try to hang on in one way or another and will use every source to make you miserable. 

I think your pretty brave.  I admire you for taking a stand and taking care of you and your family no matter what bridges you have to cross. You are determined; you are STRONG you are getting there.  It gets tiresome, I know, you wish that it would just go away.   


My ex-h was a horrible, mean, dangerous person.  I finally came to the conclusion that it was time to leave.  I was filled with resentment and horrified with myself that I put up with him for way longer then anyone should have. It was bad enough that I had to deal with all the emotions now came the financial part.  I had so much on my plate at one time.  I thought how much can I deal with.  I can’t do this.  I spoke to my sister one day (who was my greatest support) crying I was tired, why should it be so difficult, the stress was unbearable.  She said something to me that really got me through it.  She looked at me and said, I know, I know but you are strong, you will not shut down, you are a warrior. I looked at her as if she was nuts.  A warrior?  Look at me.  I don’t think so.   


Someone once said. 
ANY WOMAN THAT IS STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE ON WHAT IS PUT UPON HER IS A WARRIOR.  ANY WOMAN WHO CAN GO BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY IS A WARRIOR. 
You, my dear, are a WARRIOR

Love Deb

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Sela as guest on January 26, 2007, 02:55:33 PM

Not only that....but you've made it through the worst part already!

You've survived living with him for all these years.  All of his bullying and all of his self-centred bs. 
You don't have to have that in your life any more!  You've struggled to get him out.

I think you were smart to take the deal and get this finished.  Your brain hasn't quit, which is another sign of your strength. 

Soon this will all be just bad memories and you will have peace in your home and in your heart.

Isn't that what you are really fighting for?  You're getting there CB!!

((((((CB)))))

Sela

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: mudpuppy on January 26, 2007, 02:57:35 PM

Hi CB,

Only you know the details of all this, such as the amounts involved etc, but just out of curiosity, are you confident he is going to be paying you a cash income? I hope you don't end up in court trying to enforce that order just as long as you would have taking your inheritance back from him. I also hope he doesn't do things to devalue the property, regardless of whether he has an incentive to sell it. Control seems to be a bigger incentive than even money for these weirdos. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but I've been through mediations and negotiations and just when you think you've got the greasy little swine by the tail it wriggles free again.

Hops,

Quote

Your ex is for me a walking example of the danger in literal interpretations of sexist ancient texts. No disrespect to anyone's faith but this danger to women who accede in innocence and good faith is what most scalded me about my childhood religious teaching.

The literal interpretation of those ancient 'sexist' texts is that a husband is to sacrifice himself for his wife as Christ did for the church. In other words he is to lay down his life for her.
The same argument as you made could be made about the millions of women who accede in good faith to the ideals of modern feminism only to have some slimy, selfish man use them against her. Does that discredit feminism?
Abusers and users will use and abuse anyone with whatever tools are handy. Abuse and betrayal of an ideal by a weasel does not discredit the ideal, but the weasel.

mud

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: debkor on January 26, 2007, 03:42:55 PM

Mud,

Oh so true they are greasy little swines.  No one knows what one will do.  He will be court ordered to Pay.  Will he ignore a court order? Maybe but then again he'll have plenty of cash to buy his supplies in JAIL!!!  I think you may even have to pay some money to Jail now for your stay.  I think I'd rather be paying CB.

Deb

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: mudpuppy on January 26, 2007, 04:42:20 PM

Quote

Will he ignore a court order?

What right does a judge have to enforce mere manmade laws on someone who considers himself to be a law unto himself? That's how these nutters think.

Some of them will declare bankruptcy or live on beetles and grubs in a cave before they'll pay someone who has dared to question the great and powerful Oz. There are legal remedies, but unless the amount of money in question is great it can cost more to get the darn order enforced than one could ever hope to be paid. They almost always know how to scam the system.

mud

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Hopalong on January 26, 2007, 08:02:01 PM

I think many Ns are big cowards, though, and will obey court orders. I don't have numbers on that though!

Thanks, Mud. I don't think weasels can really discredit an idea or institution. Maybe just in the scientific or logical universe, which I don't visit all that often!

I just think what I understood about the golden rule is what I took away...and the book, and all its texts that can, as you say, be used against people, isn't a safe source for me. I sure love many many passages though. And do feel they're sacred.

I just have an idiosyncratic personal notion of what's sacred.

Didn't mean to wave flags at anyone's faith, my apologies. I was just really smacked in a bruise by realizing CB was duped into giving so much of herself away in obedience, when she should (IMO only) be obedient to her own conscience, her own understanding of what is right and good. Not some interpreter's. Whether a book or a church or religion or spouse.

I think you understand me, Mud. And you've been kind. (Might not approve of me but I can understand that!)

(((Mud)))

Hops

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Dazed1 on January 26, 2007, 08:15:49 PM

Oh, (((((((CB)))))),

You have been through so much cr*p.

Your Ex sounds like the king of the Ns to the 99th degree.

His money was his money and your money was his money.

Your story shows that one is nice to an N at one's own detriment:  Because you were loving and viewed the farm as the family home, while he only used his money for himself, the law applies that standard when dividing property in the divorce.  And, because you didn't realize he was an N during much of your marriage, you wouldn't have dreamed that he'd do this to you.

The law is very often unfair and unjust.  But, you will be free of the N and that is priceless.

I imagine the 60/40 split of the farm galls you.  But, in view of how the divorce and propery laws work in your state, plus the 3 years alimony (which is unheard of) which will give you income while you re-establish yourself, you came away quite decently. 

I agree with Mud about what are your remedies if he fails to pay alimony.  I used to work as a paralegal, although I didn't do divorce law.  Anyway, before the ink dries on the Ts and Is, please ask your lawyer to put into the agreement a remedy with "teeth" in case N refuses to pay.  For example, if he fails to pay, he forfeits his right to the 40% or something like that.  I would hate to see you go through years of litigation, lots of legal fees and posibly wind up with a near worthless judgment for alimony.

CB, Debkor and Sela are right:  You have already been through the motherload of this nightmare and you are emerging strong, capable and self sufficient.  People obviously see your strength and I'm sure they respect you for that.

much love,
dazed

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: mudpuppy on January 26, 2007, 09:28:31 PM

Hi Hops,

Quote

Didn't mean to wave flags at anyone's faith, my apologies.

No apologies required. You weren't flagging anyone's faith. I think you were engaging in a bit of a logical fallacy though.

Quote

(Might not approve of me but I can understand that!)

Where did you get that idea? I didn't know it was in my job description. :?
To paraphrase some old cat from way back 'I approve not lest I not be approved'. :)

mud

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 27, 2007, 12:41:41 AM

CB - I see the strength  and I also understand fully why you don't see it.  You are hemorrhaging and in a kind of shock.  It is enough to recognize that you have been critically wounded and that in order to stay alive you have certain things you must do.  But that is all you can see now.  You are in a crisis and are struggling to keep your head above water.  The incredible stength which keeps you afloat does not seem to be sufficient much less significant.  When everything you have is being spent to keep treading it makes no sense that the people in the boat think you are strong.  You feel to weak to keep the struggle up but those people in the boat can see how close you are to the land and they can see that your extraordinary strength will get you there before you give up.  You can't see the shore but you can feel the pain and all of your focus is on that pain.  But we see the shore and you are closer than you think.

I am so sorry that your husband is stealing your inheritance.  It is subhuman.  And the courts of "justice" do nothing to help.  The powerlessness and the inhumanity are overwhelming.  My heart is with you - Gaining Strength

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: seastorm on January 27, 2007, 01:43:15 AM

Dearest CB,

Having witnessed your struggles and the tenacity that you show for your chilldren and the life you want to give them in the future, I think you are really brave. Who cares if you cry and feel cowardly? Your actions speak loudly. You truly are a Warrior.

You say you are writing this mostly for yourself. I don't think so. Your story is helping me so much. Bad things really do happen to good people. You are not a victim in the sense that you choose to soldier on inspite of incredible adversity. Good for you. You will get somewhere new and good one step at a time.

As for losing money because of your N husband..... he was very flawed and grandiose I am sure. His financial judgement was out to lunch and he cost you probably hundreds of thousands. The up side of that is: think of the money you will be saving now that he is on his way out. You will go back to school and thrive there I am sure.

You have lots of miles left in you and who knows what good things will  happen now that you know what your relationship achilles heel is. No more Ns for you.

Thank you for the showing such courage in telling your story. Tell it as much as you like. Over and over if you need to. It is not more important to you because you are showing the way. There is no roadmap around for this journey. Thank god for this site and brave, beautiful women like you.

Lot of love,
Sea storm

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 27, 2007, 08:55:28 AM

Here's an example of your strength showing through:

I felt a niggle. 

I went home and thought about it and then called him back.  What if I rented something, even two apartments to hold my whole family, for just six months to get us on our feet and into an urban area where we could all start jobs?  The rent payments would be the same as the astronomical housepayment, but at the end of six months I would be free to think it all through again and reconfigure things--kids, money, location, etc.  He said he thought it would be a good plan.

I wouldn't have listened to my niggle in the past (actually, my NH would have laughed at my niggle!)  What this experience told me is that I sometimes have Good Ideas.  Next time, I may feel less tentative about it.  I think it's probably mostly muscle-training.  Our niggles get stronger as we exercise them!

On your own for the first time,  in the midst of being pummeled by betrayal,  to keep your head above water yet you are able to see where you need to go.  You take advice from a professional financial adviser and shape it and mold it to fit your needs.  That is strength. - your friend and admirer - Gaining Strength

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: pennyplant on January 27, 2007, 01:38:39 PM

Hi CB,

I'm not sure how this portrays strength, but it is something I have noticed in other people in 3-D who turn out to be really amazing people:

This is what I see in CB:

Your vision and your way of explaining things so eloquently.  You truly see very clearly.  You see sensibly.  You go forth anyway.  You feel terrible at times--but that is good!  It is good and strong to let yourself feel your feelings (I'm telling myself this too because I want to be that way too--I think it's healthy even though it is so hard to do).  Most people do not do any of these things!  They refuse to see, they refuse to talk about it, they refuse to be sensible because they might have to sacrifice something or get tired or something.  They refuse to go forth.  They bury their feelings or let them burst out on others over and over again.  They say "so what?" or "I don't care!" or "what about me?" all the time.

Your moments of doubt or weakness are just that--moments.  They are not all of you all the time.

I'm not wrong about you, CB!  And neither is anybody else here.  I don't even have to tell you to keep going.  You will.  That's just who you are.

Love, Pennyplant

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 27, 2007, 06:14:32 PM

Wow Pennyplant that is beautiful.  Your words to CB really touched my heart. - GS

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Hopalong on January 27, 2007, 06:56:32 PM

Newwwwwww supply for the ex, CB, I'm wishing newwwwww supply for the ex.

I think it seems just about invevitable, more I think of him. Once all the sturm und drang of the divorce is settled I imagine he will be much less obnoxious. I hope my imagining will prove true!

(I think he will start ignoring you and neglecting the kids after a while, which might be a big relief. Of course, it will be all your fault when it happens.) I just loved your nonreactive responses you described in a earlier post, in one of your last confrontations ("Thank you for sharing with me..."  8)). I would think one day you'll be twirling the phone by its cord in sheer boredom if he calls, rather than feeling one bit of fear.

I have no crystal ball, CB, except for one thing: character and courage will out, so I KNOW you have a great deal of fulfillment in your future! I'd bet my best socks, and more. And your communication with your kids is just amazing. I hope you know how not-routine that is.

I was thinking of your dear boy getting stuck with his girlfriend's N father, and I was going to suggest: what about if you just pasted the description you gave US about how he behaved? And how you realized those were red flags? I think that could have an impact on your son...show him that he too is capable of observation. The tough thing is that when they're so young, they find it harder to accept that they can't "rescue" people as much as they'd like.

He's learned to placate an N, his father. So as soon as he connects the dots between Dad and HER Dad, the better... Also, the sooner he comes to respect her ability, responsibility, and opportunities to help herself. She will survive her N father, just as he has. And she will have to deal with it in her way, in her time, just as you all have in your family. Meanwhile, maybe they comfort each other. Just that child-of-N recognition, even if they didn't realize that's part of what drew them together.

(I understand why you feel badly that he got into the thick of it. I would too. From outside, though, it seems to have a kind of poetic meaning. Might not be all bad for him?)

hugs and a peaceful, restful, nice-to-yourself weekend ahead, I hope, and if it's not, extra ears right here!

love,
Hops

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: pennyplant on January 27, 2007, 10:18:19 PM

Thank you GS.  I'm glad you found something good in my comments to CB.  Do you see yourself in there anywhere, too?  You should  :) .

Pennyplant

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Dazed1 on January 27, 2007, 11:30:08 PM

Darling CB,

(((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

How I admire and respect you!! And, how you inspire me!!!!  That is why people see you as a warrior, a victor.

You have been through so much these past weeks.  I imagine you must feel drained.  Please take care of yourself.

You said “I think I'm going to make it.”.  But, I KNOW you ARE, FOR SURE, going to make it.  No doubt in my mind.  In fact, you ARE making it NOW and you’re doing beautifully.  That’s the truth.

“My belief system and my enabling co-dependency made great partners.  It will take me a long time to unravel the two, and I honestly don't know what will be left standing.”

I can’t comment on your belief system, but I’d like to give you my 2 cents on the co-dependency part:  Overcoming co-dependency is a major part of my healing from the effects of Nism.  I have found that it has been kind of  “easy” to stop my co-dependent ways in the following sense:  I realize, in the past, when I was a full fledged co-dependent, I used to get little niggling feelings when I was being co-dependent.  When I would say something that was co-dependent or act in a co-dependent way, my inner voice would say to me “should you be saying/doing this?  Is this really what you want to do?” and I would get a feeling that what I was saying or doing didn't feel right.  Of course, being a co-dependent who was raised by Ns, I ignored my inner voice.

So, now, when I hear my inner voice ask me those questions or when I get that feeling, I ask myself “Am I being co-dependent?” and if the answer is “yes”, then I don’t say or do it.

The other thing about being co-dependent for me is that being co-dependent was NEVER ENJOYABLE.  For me, being co-dependent usually meant I felt pressured to say or do things which I DID NOT WANT to say or do.

So, for me there is a great joy in tossing away my co-dependency:  I no longer say or do things I DON’T WANT to say or do.  This makes me feel so much lighter and more free.  CB, I hope you get to experience this joy.

One more thing (hope I’m not being co-dependent): You mentioned that it’s your understanding that if the ExN does something to “trash” his property, then there’s nothing you can do.  That's not completely true.  Neighboring property owners cannot always do whatever the heck they want.  So, if you believe that the “Jerk” is doing something on his land which will devalue your property, please research your question on the internet and/or speak to your lawyer.  You may be able to do something about it depending on what it is.

Much love,
dazed

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Gaining Strength on January 28, 2007, 12:44:13 PM

Gosh Pennyplant, I did not see myself in that.  But just the HOPE that you might is so humbling and hope inspiring.  Those are truly the kindest words that I have received.  Thank you.  Those words will surely change me.  - Gaining Strength

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: Stormchild on January 28, 2007, 09:15:46 PM

Hi GS

Dazed is right, he can't necessarily do things to lower the resale value of the property on purpose. You might be able to 'get' him under various laws if he tries, especially because he announced his intentions in front of both your mediator and his lawyer.

Title: Re: The other half of mediation
Post by: gratitude28 on January 28, 2007, 11:08:48 PM

OH CB, You Gold DIgger...

I am so sorry for you to go through all that. Yes, you probably did need to get that all out. I hurt after reading it. I feel like I want to cry. I am so sorry for you.

Girl, you deserve to hurt and be pissed and punch walls or whatever you want to do. You have been a great mom, a caring wife and tried to make things work. You don't deserve this, but this is what you got.

Please share stories any time you want. I think the more you get the vitriole out, the better you will feel.

(((((((((((CB))))))))))))))))

Love, Beth