Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on January 26, 2007, 01:28:52 PM
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This quote from Axa on the What Progress Have You Made? thread inspires this one:
I have learned I must say No the moment the confusion appears in a relationship
Somehow that simple line hit me hard, and I've been thinking about why. I think that learning to find and respect my own voice, and USE it to speak up against mistreatment (whether by an Nish person or anyone else) is part of the learning. But I think learning to direct my voice outward is one part of the battle.
The other part, which I overlooked for a long time and am just beginning to recognize may be the most important, is to HEAR my inner voice. Perhaps what I'm talking about is intuition, inner wisdom, gut sense, something like that.
IOW, when I feel confused in a dialogue with someone and it's not because of the surface subject matter...heads up! Something is going on beneath the surface (perhaps in me as well as the other, or perhaps them, or perhaps just me). I think we are all born with a kind of innate sensitivity to signals, just as animals are. Metaphorically, our noses quiver, our ears prick, we hunch down, leap up, take off at a run. Or...we yawn, relax, roll over, close our eyes, leap up to play, yip in joy. (Sorry if I'm taking the animal analogy too far!)
I think in being raised by a very Nish mother and subsequently falling in "love" (glugg, gasp, enmeshed gurgle noises) with N men...I trained myself to ignore so many natural noises my animal self was voicing to take care of me.
So it seems to me a big part of my growth work now is to learn to listen to the deepest instincts I have, because I've been trained to ignore those natural senses that if left to do their natural work, would ENSURE that I'm happy, healthy, at peace, ready for life, present, self-protective and unhesitant about retreating from danger. Toward the good and life-sustaining, away from the bad.
(Not that choices, situations and people are that simply black or white, but that my instincts if I were hearing my animal voice...would lead me into better and healthier ones, and away from toxic ones.)
I don't know that I'm expressing any new insight but it all felt fresh to me when I read Axa's word confusion.
Does this make sense to anybody? Hope it's not confusing!
Hops
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Hiya Hops:
Makes complete sense to me. It's sometimes so much easier to go with the flow and say/do nothing eh? It often takes guts to use one's voice/listen to instincts because things might not go smoothly or pleasantly. It's a bit like making waves and not something so many of us are trained to do or have experience doing.
Easier to just let the other loud voices have the floor. Easier to quiet our own inner voices.
I find that inner voice can be so confusing too sometimes. It's been taught to say some really nasty things.....things that are difficult to assess or proove or disproove. It almost like there's a helpful and not so helpful voice in there. But when that inner voice whispers warnings.......??
Why did/does one ignor them? Why doesn't one really hear? How to clean the wax out?
So no wonder Axa's words hit hard. It's a tough lesson to learn. It's as if sorting the confusion becomes more important than knowing it's danger.
Bottom line is we don't have to work everything out. We can skip past it and not die. We don't always have to have logical explanations or reasons. It's ok to listen to inner voices and follow instincts. Something maybe our parents didn't properly teach us? Or that we learned not to do in order to just survive (because voicing was too dangerous and listening was tormenting and acting on instinct was not an option).
Sela
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Yes indeed Sela. Thanks. You heard the thought and extended it so well. I appreciate that!
I think for me, what I'd love to hear about from others, is about the SUBTLE whisperings. Those little inner questions (maybe like a brief fleeting thought?)--or subtle physical sensations.
I'd like to describe them better to myself, and hear others' descriptions of what they recall of those stirrings. Somehow I just think that's a valuable direction to explore. I don't think I have a handle, yet, but the more stories...I think one can get better at it.
In the moment, two related thoughts:
--It reminds me of The Gift of Fear, the book about physical danger, how to be more self-protective...
--It reminds me of a moment walking down the aisle with my first husband when I had a heart palpitation that wasn't just "jitters". It was my classic, familiar, recognizable sign of PANIC.
Hindsight? If I were closer then (28 years ago) to where I am now, I think I might have stopped right there. Said, I'm very sorry everyone for your trouble, but I realize I can't go through with this.
I am amazed by how much fear and shame and "don't look indecisive", "don't reject anybody", and especially (back then) "please the parents and please the man" ... directed the course of much of my life.
What if I'd heard that physical signal or noticed the fleeting thought and respected it? Past is past and I'm not anguishing about it. I'm just thinking about what a different orientation I'd like to have in the REST of my life, whether it's 10 years or 40.
Anybody else have such moments?
Hops
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Ah, Hops, I do! Sometimes it is more than intuition..........it is a gut instinct. Like once, I just KNEW this girl was pregnant. Had nothing to go on. Didn't know if she was even having sex. I went up to my mom and said, "Mark my words that girl is going to tell us she is pregnant." The next day she announced she was pregnant. Then one time I had a crush on a guy and was kind of stalking him.....I drove by his house.......checked him out. Well once I drove by his house and saw a girl and he coming out. A couple of days later I was near my old house and decided to drive by to check it out......as I rounded the corner I had this overwhelming feeling that the guy I had a crush on would be over there..........and as I drove by there was his car!! Now that doesn't happen all the time but every once in awhile I'll have more than a still, small voice.....and isn't it ironic that he was dating a woman who lived in my old house???
But that feeling inside? A Red Flag maybe? How many times did I ignore blatant red flags about alcoholic husband (BEFORE the wedding) or first husband........I too, knew I shouldn't go down the aisle but I couldn't stop it......afterall, the invitations were sent, I had the dress, my friends were coming in from out of town, the hall and church were rented, etc. So better to go through with a fiasco than go with that instinct that this is WRONG!! Now I consider myself the QUEEN of making stupid choices. And that is not being hard on myself. My history proves it. So now all I can do is try to stop making bad choices, go with my intutions and move forward. Stop having to clean up my messes. Better to not make the mess to begin with!!
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Hi Hops,
I have been trying to live by my intuition lately and I find it is the key to getting healthier. One way I am doing this is by addressing abuse if it comes my way.
My sister has a friend who usually dominates the conversation whenever she comes over. This monopolizing is pretty boring and negative.
I went to a workshop on working with survivors of traumatic incidents. It was a moving and amazing experience and part of the information was about the importance of survivors telling their stories over and over again. I told this to the woman and she was so scornful saying? Only a group of psychologists would come up with anything so ridiculous and call it progress" She went on and on about what she thought was needed by survivors of trauma.
I said that I thought she was stating her opinion without really hearing what the workshop involved. Basically, I called her on her limited knowlege and she exploded and left in a huff.
There was a very controlling element to this woman's behaviour and I just didn't want to play the game. She had a tantrum and left.
I thought about this a lot. I was calm and assertive but I was not going to be steamrollered and bullied. not just to be polite.
I am just not going to lie down for it anymore. In future I think I might just say "Whoa there" or something like that but I am not just going to be mute.
Apparently in Hell there is a special place reserved for people who remain neutral when a moral choice has to be made.
Sea storm
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I hear you!
Let's hear it for niggles and animal voices and speaking up.
More nigglanimal stuff:
I know my shoulders will tighten before anything else. When I feel like I could crack a walnut by shrugging, chances are I'm in the presence of someone I should be cautious around.
My present boss is very kind to me and I'm very happy in the job. At the same time, though, he'll now and then make a remark that causes me to retreat, internally. Something like, "I'm really a mystic" or "I see things other people don't see". I know a lot of that comes from him having spent 20 years in a religious community where he was encouraged to submit to a leader. Admiring the leader may have rubbed off in phrases like that, or ways of thinking of the self that sound inflated to me. (He and his family later left the community terribly disillusioned and realizing they'd been abused, basically.)
His behavior seldom matches those grandiose remarks, though. He is open and receptive, and seems to genuinely respect me and my judgement. So...maybe there are N traits there but not the dreaded term: an N. My little voice is muttering, and I'll just keep observing. I think I am okay there. Not enmeshed.
I want to respect my inner animal voice without being paranoid. That's a tricky balance for someone coming so late to respect for my ability to guide my self. I thought for so long that somebody or something else should be in charge. I was independent and took and lot of risks and had adventures, but at core, I still was on a daddy-hunt, I think.
Hmmm. That's odd.
Anyway, confusing myself, and must get ready for work.
Thanks for listening to this disorganized ramble. Niggles, inner animal warnings, fleeting thoughts, examples of intuition...would love to hear more.
Happy Saturday all (I work one Sat. a month),
Hops
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Interestingly, if the niggle is strong enough, their dismissiveness will often strengthen it.
Can certainly identity with that CB
Leah
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I have learned I must say No the moment the confusion appears in a relationship
I just read the first sentence of your post Hops and suddenly I knew something about myself.
I have entered relationships in a way of begging the universe to let me be accepted, let this one work, let me in, SAVE ME. Each and every time the window cracked for the possibility for a relationship I have been desparate and in that desparation I have chosen to overlook all signals and warnings. Desparation for acceptance has led me into many bad decisions. It has perhaps been the leading force in my life. But the brakes are on and I have begun to make a U-turn. Acceptance is the emptiness and craving in my being that I have tried to fill in so many desparate and damaging ways.
So glad you highlighted this Hops. Thank you - Gaining Strength
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It's this feeling of being "had." Walk away from a confrontation and feel like you have been punched in the stomach. I TOTALLY agree wtih Seastorm. I just don't have time for people's crap anymore. I call my nmom on her crap. I call my drunken H on his crap. No more trying to smooth the waters. No more taking the abuse. And to watch my nmom trying to chastise me for "my" behavior. I know it was just a very tough pill to swallow for her when I finally stood up to her and wouldn't take it anymore. She calls me a bull in a china closet. I call her a bull in a china closet. Me because I pull away from the abuse and make sure everyone knows I am not going to take it. She because she walks around and imposes her will on people because "she owns the store!"
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She calls me a bull in a china closet. I call her a bull in a china closet. Me because I pull away from the abuse and make sure everyone knows I am not going to take it. She because she walks around and imposes her will on people because "she owns the store!"
Brilliantly put Kell, I am going to try so hard to remember that. Leah
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Interesting!
I've just been through something unpleasant at work - and someone tried the 'sensitive' tactic on me.
"Stormchild, we all agreed that you should do X" [but none of them supported me when I was publicly abused for doing exactly what was agreed to, after the fact] - "why does it matter that someone makes a fuss afterwards? You're very sensitive."
My response:
"I'm very aware. Fish don't feel wet. When people become accustomed to abuse as a way of doing business, they may no longer realize that it is abuse, but its nature has not changed. I do not intend to become acclimated to this type of abuse and double bind. I expect to be supported both before and after I do something that has my management's agreement. If someone tries to bully me about it afterwards because they think I'm small and can't defend myself, I expect them to be confronted and stopped by the people on whose behalf I have acted."
Do I expect this to change anything? Probably not, but I'm going to keep standing up and saying it, for MY sake. It's true, and it needs to be said.
I did leave the most important part unspoken. That part is this: if the people on whose behalf I act refuse to stand up for me, then I will stand up for myself, by every available and appropriate means. I didn't think I had to say it, because I was doing it, right then and there.
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Stormchild,
"Stormchild, we all agreed that you should do X" [but none of them supported me when I was publicly abused for doing exactly what was agreed to, after the fact] - "why does it matter that someone makes a fuss afterwards? You're very sensitive."
think you came face to face with the green-eyed monster - jealousy! jealous of your positive and fruitful actions - so jealousy bounced the abusive "You're very sensitive." at you. Jealousy hopes you will feel angst, hurt, and go back in the box.
we know that you are staying out of that box!
warm wishes,
Leah
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Thanks Leah!
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It takes awhile but there comes a point when you cannot take it anymore. I believe when you get to that point you are at the beginning of your journey to freedom and health! One step forward and two steps back but progress none the less. Stand up for yourself and become a bull in a china closet!
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I want to be a bull in a china shop!! I want to join that organization. The one where good people stand up for what they believe in.
Could we change the metaphor. Maybe it is more like that song "I hope you dance"
Screw it. I'M DANCING
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Screw it. I'M DANCING
Sea,
I think I'll have that screen printed on a T-shirt! hee hee :D
CB
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I think the Bull in a China Closet tshirt is funnier - and people really wouldn't know what you were talking about..........and I would cry if I put I HOPE YOU DANCE on a tshirt because that is the song they played at my 15 year olds friends funeral back in November.......she was broadsided and didn't make it.......love that song but it will always remind me of her friend!!
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Guys,
Trying to get a quote in here but cannot do it. AHHHHHHHHHH
Anyway, read a book some years ago Stalking the Soul. Author says that where there is abuse there is always confusion. i KNEW THIS and stayed...... o h well.
I just read the first sentence of your post Hops and suddenly I knew something about myself.
I have entered relationships in a way of begging the universe to let me be accepted, let this one work, let me in, SAVE ME. Each and every time the window cracked for the possibility for a relationship I have been desparate and in that desparation I have chosen to overlook all signals and warnings. Desparation for acceptance has led me into many bad decisions. It has perhaps been the leading force in my life. But the brakes are on and I have begun to make a U-turn. Acceptance is the emptiness and craving in my being that I have tried to fill in so many desparate and damaging ways.
Gaining Strength,
I burst into tears when I read this. This is my truth also. I wanted so bloody desperatly to be loved and seen and heard that I was willing to put up with every dammed piece of sh~~ that came my way. I dont know if this ever changes. I have worked so hard over the years in therapy, training, etc to move from this place and that was where I was again with XN. I was so grateful for the crumbs. It was as if being in a relationship was some kind of signal to the world "she is ok". What I did not get was that the world was saying how could she put up with such a crazy person.
I need to think about acceptance. I guess I never have accepted myself and maybe this is where the work is for me.
Axa
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Hops,
Going back onto hearing the voice. Shortly after I met XN he went on holiday with his D and I went with my sister and her hubby. We agreed to meet in Italy and spend time together. XN turned up as promised and we went off with D. He travelled a significant way to be with me which of course flattered me. I went off with him and D
Each evening we would go out for dinner. My idea of a nice evening is take a stroll, have a drink in a cafe, choose a restaurant, take time over dinner and maybe take a walk later.
When we would go for dinner it was like a race to see who could eat the fastest and off somewhere else for desert. There was no soaking up the atmosphere or anything like that. One evening I pointed out to them that I would like a pre dinner drink and would head off on my own, if they did not want to come, and meet with them in the restaurant. I was happy to sit in one of the cafes on the beach front and sip a glass of wine, observing the world going by. XN said no he would come as he did not like the idea of me being on my own in a cafe !!!!! I had a drink while he and D waited anxiously then we went to restaurant, I suggested we take our time over dinner, they were hungry so there was no hangin about. We went out for a walk on the beach front and D said she wanted to go into a small place which had some gaming machines, fruit machines etc.... lots of familiies in there having fun. I hate places like this.
We went in, she was playing some sort of driving game and I decided I did not like the place. I called XN aside and said that I would wait for them in the cafe next door and they could come when they were finished having fun. I walked out the door. XN came after me and screamed in my face about how mean I was to his D that I would not stay and watch her play her games. All I wanted was drink and this poor girl who had been abandoned by her mother only wanted me to watch her for a while. I was stunned. I remember walking away, going to cafe sitting down and having a very STIFF drink. I thought I am getting out of here tomorrow. This is crazy. D did not see any of this happening.
After some time he came back with D. I did not speak to them, went back to hotel and went to bed. Next morning I said I did not feeel like breakfast as I wanted some time to think about what went on. (A healthy person would have just packed and left) He went to breakfast with D, they came back to hotel room and D said "Daddy says that you might leave us, please do not leave us". He had primed her to plead with me. Of course I stayed. Needless to say I was "love bombed for the next while.
There was my voice which shouted at me four weeks into the relatiohsip and I did not listen. I recall that after that episode he became very "loving in a sexual way" as if he knew that he needed to groom me further. That of course did not last either.
Axa
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GOOD for you, Axa!
Recognizing your inner protective instincts even in hindsight and even when you over-rode them at the time, still means that you can hear them.
Bodes well for your future, hon.
Hops