Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: seastorm on January 27, 2007, 02:46:16 PM
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I read that someone didn't tell their story because it was too shameful and horrible to hear.
I feel that way too. There is a feeling that when I do bleed it out onto the page that it is not worth hearing or that I feel judged. For instance: when I phone my X and get feedback that I am stupid for phoning this is not helpful. I obviously know that I am not following doctrine and I am struggling. I would not be involved with Ns if I could help it or if I knew better.
I want to heal from this and it feels like it is an impossibly huge task. I believe that telling my story and being heard and not judged is one of the keys to healing.
Looking back I was desperate for love and didn't know it. Even though I lived in a groovy place that everyone thinks is heaven on earth and had a good jub. Maybe one of the most interesting jobs around. Even though I was building my dream home that I designed. I had friends who were interesting and fun. I had turned 50 and decided to have a rich full life as a single person. then X came to visit me at work out of the blue. I was so happy to see him after about 3 years. We had known each other in our youth. I had always enjoyed his charismatic, funny and intelligent self. I invited him home for dinner and when I found out he was single I decided that he was going to be mine. We had a great night talking till midnight and then making love. It was cosmic and transcendent and we did everything except ........ have intercourse. He said that he thought pleasuring ourselves was better. I thought this was a bit odd but overlooked it.
next day he panicked and left. But he came back. Turned out he wasn't quite separated from his X wife. I think they were going for couples counseling still.
When I went to visit him he was living in a pretty house and still working for his own company. I think that his very effecient secretary was covering his alcoholic butt and doing most of the work. I did not know that he was an alcoholic. We didn't drink much together but he started drinking as soon as he got up. I discovered to my horror that he put tons of vodka in the juice. He was not a mean drunk and seemed to carry on fairly normally. Boy was I wrong.
There was a woman living near by and she was managing his financial affairs. She was very controlling and had access to his bank accounts and credit cards. Once I bought an expensive potted rose for his porch and she was furious because her partner had landscaped the place and it did not fit in with the plan. I mean she made a reall fuss about it. He told me that it was causing so much trouble that he wanted to get rid of the rose. I was so mad that I threw it in the ocean which was very near by. Now this is the sort of weird thing that was common with X. His ex wife lived a stones throw away and she would drop over unannouced and still called him by little pet names. The person handlling Ns affairs was sort of a dominatrix. Not sexually, she was a lesbian, but she ordered him about. I thought all this was because he was getting over the break up of his marriage.
Although the dominatrix was managing his money, his bills were unopened and stacked up about a foot high. He got a friend of mine to sort out his bills and she was shocked because bills weren't paid for years and cheques weren't cashed etc. So much for the woman managing his money. All this seemed like utter chaos to me but by now I was madly in love with him. Eventually, the dominatrix ran off and it turned out she had swindled him out of at least ten thousand dollars.
Because he was still working I thought it was not so bad. He managed quite a big company and make good money.
He tried to quit drinking and went into the DTs in a very bad way. Or he just went into the dts. He ended up in the hospital. I went to see him and the nurse said,"who are YOU" and she was laughing. I was sort of flabberghasted. I said that I was his girlfriend of a year. She said well there are two women claiming to be his wife and we can only deal with one partner. So his ex wife (wife number 2) had come in and gotten all the information about him. His first wife was very concerned too. So they didn't even want to let me see him. I was the person who brought him to the hospital. It dawned on me that he still kept in very close contact with both wives. I think it was very close. Of course he denied this.
At this point I look back and I think , Good Grief, this is really crazy. But he was a silver tongued devil who could talk his way out of anything.
I thought this would be a wake up call and a turning point. I was very desperate and very positive. I put a positive spin on everything.
Meanwhile, I was in a very stressful job. I had a crazy narcissistic boss. So i was getting squeezed between two very difficult scenes. I think this is when I lost myself.
I will stop now and write more later.
If anyone thinks their story is too aweful or shameful to repeat believe me I don't think there is a bigger fool than I was. I think I will remain feeling like a fool until I tell my story so I am just going to do it.
I invite anyone who might be feeling this way to speak here. I will listen and not judge and it would help a lot.
Sea storm
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Hi seastorm
Wow, what you went through!
And you are coming through it... keep talking. Light is the best disinfectant.
I'd posted something else here but it doesn't really belong on this thread, it belongs on its own, so I'm moving it. Sorry about that.
(((((((((())))))))))
Edit in: Listen to the mudpuppy, salamanders are very wise...
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I don't think there is a bigger fool than I was.
Everybody here is a fool and has been fooled or we wouldn't be here in the first place.
I will say seastorm that you were sucked into a pretty weird zoo by any standards, but all of us have in one form or another had the same thing done to us.
The unfortunate fact is people say the wrong thing sometimes; sometimes accidentally and sometimes not so accidentally. Or they speak when they shouldn't and vice versa. I know I've done three of the four and more than once, and if I thought about it I've probably done the fourth as well.
I think part of finding your voice is plowing ahead even when somebody judges you or ignores you. Being judged inappropriately is never fun but if you let it silence you, you've acquiesced in a wrong being done to your own person. I think part of getting a handle on this issue is putting our foot down and speaking up whatever the consequences. Part of having a voice is the recognition that some people won't like what we have to say. And the more truth we tell the less some people will like it. It has always been thus and always will be. Its a not very pleasant world we live in, even the supposedly safe parts of it.
So tell your story and if somebody doesn't like it they can go jump in a lake or suck an egg or something along those lines.
mud
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((((((((seastorm)))))))) and ((((((((((((Stormchild)))))))))))))
...stories too horrible to hear. I'll bet there are many who feel that way, but I really believe this is a safe, supportive place to share the horror. That's what it is--HORROR.
The most difficult part is still loving or wanting in spite of our mangled feelings--
I think it is good to put it down in wrtiing, step 1, and post it, step 2, and then have responses, step 3.
The worst part for me was that I wised up, but being in a wheelchair, I couldn't find an accessible apartment, so stayed where I had a roof over my head, and sex was still involved. I feel I degraded myself for that, but left when the first GOOD apartment was available. However I was with him 4 years and 2 months. I endured the raging and the boring sex, as he wasted all his time masturbating to Internet porn. As well we were partners in a business. I had to keep an eye on things, and was wondering how to deal with this aspect!
He sucked me into his web for my money. He never got it though.
The emtional abuse really knocked away any self-esteem I had and the physical violence, not against my person, was like my dad, and I was very frightened.
One Friday night, Dec 15, 2001, the Xmas decorations were up and it had snowed for 2 days. My car was just piled with snow and he was coming back from a business trip. Called to say we would go out for dinner. We did and I ordered a glass of wine and he, a beer. We went over the menus and chose, then the waitress came and he ordered another beer and I another glass of wine to have with my meal, He roared that if I had another glass of wine he was walking out.
I accepted the wine and he jumped up, tossed s $20 on the table and left.
I had my wine and dinner and paid the bill, but I did it all very slowly, enjoyed it, as the snow kept teaming down. I called a taxi.
I asked the driver to go down the back laneway, as there was a boardwalk there, (my car was parked beside it) but he would have to push me through the snow and up the ramp, which he did.
When I went in all the decorations had been taken down, he was on the sofa having a beer and smoking, and said I had spoiled Xmas. (huh?) Then he took a toss pillow and sheared all the growth from a tall plant in the living room and dumped the earth on the carpet, then he flung his portable phone against the stone fireplace, then his watch then poured out his beer on the carpet and snubbed his cigarette in the mess.
The air was blue with his cursing.
Then he pulled off his sweater, stood on part of it and pulled the thing to shreds, then did the same with his under shirt. I sat in front of my computer and just stared and was voiceless, as he started pulling the wall hangings from the wall and broke them over his knee. The Living room was totally trashed and then he came toward me, looking at my computer. I was so frightened, but he backed off.
FF to next morning and I was not going to clean up his mess. He cleaned it up and said he was going to sell everything, then go live under a bridge in his van for a while , then climb up to the top and jump. I ignored that.
Come Sunday the 17th, he said if I gave him my car keys he would clean all the snow from my car (What? He never offered like this!!) which he did then came in to ask did I know my car was damaged. What?
I went out to look and it had been trashed to the tune of $1500.00, He called th police, blamed it on the guy who lived downstairs, called the insurance company, then called a Guy who would do the repairs, without my even paying the deductible. What? He was never that helpful.
As far as I am concerned he trashed my car on the Friday night before I came home, the falling snow covered it up until Sunday, but I never saw it happen.
You see when I think of that, I was so ashamed that, because there was so much raging and property damage, I couldn't get out.
We can feel so helpless regarding our situations, our feelings, what to do, where to go, maybe it's him/her, maybe it's me, what will the friends think, will anyone believe this atrocious story, will I just sound like a whiny bitch, will anyone support me, or will they all just say I'm lying 'cuz he is such a great guy!
I am 4½ years out of the mess and can share a story, but it feels like I am telliing someone else's story, as any feelings about that time have dissipated because I was with a person who was abnormal/disordered and had no feelings. Time does heal.
When I left, I didn't have a friend. They were all his and his admirers.
I don't know how wise I am about helping others, but i can certainly lend an ear and understand some of the horrors that have been experienced. and I will believe!!!!
lover
Izzy
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I want to heal from this and it feels like it is an
impossibly huge task.
huge - yes; impossible - no
I believe that telling my story and being heard and not judged is one of the keys to healing.
It has been for me. I have shared things here that I have shared absolutely no where else. It was frightening but I did it. And it helped. - Gaining Strength
Wow, Izzy, that sounds like a living hell. I am sorry you had to live through that.
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Thanks GS,
Wise words.
Izzy,
How familiar what happened to you sounds. You were denigrated by another but it says more about him. There is something about the powerlessness of the situation and the vulnerability that damages a person.
My feelings are dissipating too. I wonder where they go? I want to tell the story so that I can release them before they foul me up. I feel like I could go on functioning on 2 cylinders but I want to be alive. Maybe that is asking too much. I have to numb myself to survive.
You ask about helping others. Well, telling me your story and how you felt helps me. I can see that you need a lot of compassion and caring after the horror of that night. Merry F..ing christmas. The shame you might feel seems so undeserved when I hear the story.
Thank you. Sometimes I feel so alone I could scream. When I connect with you through what happened it helps a lot.
Mudpuppy,
I was starting to feel like a loser on this site. I felt that I was not recovering in the right way or fast enough. I felt like I would NEVER recover.
Thanks for reminding me that we are all fools. I love that about the human race and especially about the people on Voicelessness. That is what helps give this place its heart and creativity.
You are quite right about the weird zoo. What on earth was I thinking? Obviously, not thinking.
I don't think anyone did anything mean to me here. I just get scared and clam up. I am hanging in there anyway. I have gotten so much help here that I can't throw it all alway.
Also some blunt feedback is in order. It was a weird zoo. I can laugh about it now. God, it would make a good off Broadway Play. I must find healthier diversions.
thanks for the encouragement.
gaining strength:
I will watch for your story. thanks for your response.
Sea storm
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Wow, izzy. what a flaming borderline! Or maybe just a mean drunk.
Classic, carrying on like a total nutbar in order to ruin the holiday for everyone else [in this case, = you].
Classic, trashing your house and car to punish you for refusing to be controlled by him not once, but twice - you had your wine and you had your meal. He wanted to see you jump when he barked.
And insofar as the sexual aspects are concerned - Iz, the older I get, the more I realize how few marriages or domestic partnerships are really healthy, and how many men and women find themselves in intimate arrangements that degrade their souls... I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
I'm so glad you have a place of your own now, where you are safe.
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During the hospital stay Ns mother came to his house while I was staying there. She was there with his ex wife and his daughter. They had decided to pack up his family heirlooms without his permission because he was too out of it to have them. they did not ask me about this and they were in the living room carefully cataloguing the items. These items meant a lot to him. He went to private school from age 7 to 14 and he felt like an outsider in the family. Nevertheless, they were carted off.
Someone had taken his guns. They were very valuable. He was not in any danger of harming himself or others. The mother, wife and daughter are all Ns I think.
Just barge in and take over.
Fast forward to my lovely new house. N is drinking out of control and agrees to go to detos. He ends up in the hospital again. This time he agrees to go to a treatment centre. I wrote a cheque for 9000.00. This was all the money I had in the world. I later went to his mother and asked her to pay me back and she did.
I thought about leaving him while he spent 10 weeks in treatment. The cost to me had been too steep. I could hardly function at work and he consumed my life.
I felt that by taking him t the treatment centre and paying for his stay I had done enough. Also, I wondered if he would have permanent brain damage from the detox etc.
He sold his business to his partner at this point.
By now my friends had disappeared. Three good friends said that the could not stick around as long as N was in my life. By now I was as sick as he was. I just didn't really understand what was happening.
I sold my place that I had built to move to a place where N was more likely to get work. In four years he rarely worked. My daughter grew distant and said that I had disappeared. I could not understand what she was talking about. This was heartbreaking to me. By now I was used to a diet of chaos and angst.
This story is a lot about livng and loving a raging alcoholic. It is such a mess. I tried harder and harder. As I got weaker he got more controlling. He wasn't happy unless things were his way.
I found a house to buy and I put 80% of the downpayment down. I paid for the renovations and I paid the mortgage at double the rate. N took control of finances. He was adament that i was incapable of managing money effectively. I squandered money on foolish things. So the money got spent on his airplane, his sailboat, a trip to china for him and his son. Meanwhile, he badgered me constantly about how foolish I was about money and said that there would be enough money if I stopped spending it on second hand stores and silly things. he would tell people I was a shop a holic. This is really nuts considering I was the one paying for EVERYTHING. It just served to keep me subservient.
I look back and I think this would not have happened so much if there had been friends around or family. We were isolated. My friends were gone. His rarely came to visit. So my life became very hard. Working really hard at work, coming home and doing all the housework and trying to fix up the house and garden. I began to feel that N did not like our new house. He did nothing. He complained that the house was such a mess that he didn't want to help with housework. He thougth of making dinner but couldn't find anything in the cupboards to make. He would get working but he had to clean up his workspace ( this never happened). It was like the house was not up to his standards ( he comes from a wealthy family) so he couldn't get enthusiastic about it. So I tried to make the house nice. I painted the rooms. I don't know where he was when work was done but he didn't do any.
Our sex life was nearly non-existent. I was very sad about this and thought it was because I didn't turn him on. He would flirt with me and then laugh and go somewhere else. I don't know what he did with his sexuality and that began to wear away at me. The harder I tried to please him the worse it got. I started to lose my temper. I would say "I am sick of being you cash cow. You have to step up to the plate. Either do work around the house or get a job". He would look at me like I was mentally defiecient. HE WOULD NEVER ADMIT ANYTHING> EVER>
At this point I cracked up and had to leave my job. After i cracked up he found reasons to be absent and go traveiling. I wanted to go camping or do something to get my spirit back.
He got emails from wife no. 2 that were signed with her affectionate name "Fluff" and they said things like "Oh N i remember flying with you and they were the peak experiences of my life". Looking back he was probably visiting her. I said "Knock it off. that is ridiculous. You can't expect me to put up with that". He would reply," It is nothing. Put up with what. The problem does not exist" I noticed that that was a strategy. Do not acknowledge that there is a problem. It just doesn't exist.
End of part one.
Sea storm
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Sea....
Lawd, hon, I MAJORED in Fool.
I have truly, truly lost myself in pursuit of an unwinnable, unavailable, irresponsible alcoholic N man. I have pushed down the memory of some of my more spectacular groveling and self-abandonment but it was truly there.
(Good news? It's gone. That big huge toxic self-abandonment is gone.)
I will tell you more sometime when I have enough stamina to write it, but meanwhile, please trust my assurances that there is nothing weird or wrong in you. You were just on a mistake-cycle, and one I knew very well.
Make the mistake and when it backfires, make it harder! I know that cycle, and I likewise know how much honesty and courage is required to let go of it, and risk leaving with a less certain but more hopeful future.
I think that's what telling your story is about--honesty and courage.
Ain't nobody keeping score here, hon.
(((((Sea)))))
Hops
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I felt that I was not recovering in the right way or fast enough.
I'm sure you know there is no 'right way' nor is there a timetable. Recovery is the singular goal, the ways to get there are legion.
While the paths to recovery are many, the ways to the pit all seem nearly identical when it is between a man and a woman. I've been here about two years and your story, far from being uniquely shocking or shameful, is depressingly familiar. Somewhere there is an assembly line stamping these little tin gods out by the thousands and they all march out of the factory to the beat of the same deranged drummer. While the cloud of ex wives and lesbian dominatrixes and mommy dearest surrounding him was a little extreme he's just the same old flim flam man that has taken so many others here for the same ride. Lots of other gals here have struggled through what you are going through and you will to. If this site should tell you anything it's that you're not alone and there is life after the grifters move on to the next mark.
I firmly believe spitting the whole sordid mess out in a place where you are supported and believed is the single most important thing you can do to recover. It was for me.
mud
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Sea,
I want to chime in here even though I come from a completely different angle. A couple of years ago I let myself become an emotional fling / source of supply for a former co-worker who totally tricked me (though I was ripe for the tricking, a really big fool). We are both married. And my husband knows all about it. My husband and I have come a long way in solving many of our own problems because of what happened.
What I'm getting out of your story for myself is the other side. What he must really be like for the woman who is unlucky enough to be married and have children with him. When I was in the thick of it, I didn't let myself think about her too much. And I know for a fact, that the other people in his "circle" don't like her and even resent her for whatever control they think she has over him. They don't even know her for the most part. Of course, he makes it sound bad. My take on it is that he uses her supposed controlling behavior as his excuse for not having to do things he doesn't really want to do anyway. But he can blame her and come out looking like a hero and all for doing nothing at all but lie.
When I was lost in his charms, I didn't see the bad parts very clearly. I sensed it, but talked myself out of it. I was star-struck and soaking up a little attention that seemed to be coming my way. A very little attention. It didn't take much then for me to be swept away.
I still need many, many reminders of what these people are really like behind the lies and the mask. Even though, by now, I have actually seen behind the mask several times. Still, that drug effect they can have still pops up in me every so often. So, to hear about these terrible actions being perpetrated against people here who seem to me to be very good and decent and normal people, the kind Ns go after, then I know over and over again that I was lucky it was only emotional and something he intended only for refreshing his imagination with. Which is the only kind of sex he can have, in his imagination. He actually told me that several times. I just didn't believe it. What kind of a man only wants imaginary sex?!?!? Well, now I know what kind. At least now I have stopped feeling rejected. When I thought that was what was happening, rejection, I felt horrible all the time. And it wasn't even about me at all. Actually he told me that too. When he stopped paying attention to me he said, "It had nothing to do with you at all!!!" At the time that felt like a slap in the face. But now I know it wasn't even that personal. I was nothing but a new fantasy to him.
So, Sea, there are other fools here. Like me. I have above average intelligence, a good marriage to a good man, a nice enough home, a good-paying job, nice kids, and I actually wanted to have an affair with an N that I used to work with. Obviously, there is more to my story that caused this need and vulnerability in me. But still, voicelessnes, abuse, sad childhood, whatever. It was not logical what I wanted to do. I am still not 100% there yet. Most of the way there. Ninety-five percent. I can look back and see where it was nonsense on my part. And very, very risky. But I would have done it if he had been a normal man who had really been attracted to me. The only thing that stopped it from going any farther was him not actually wanting that at all. But he's N. Of course, he didn't want anything real with me.
Wow, this sounds so stupid to write. But it is, or was, true. Stupid but true.
I fully understand how you got sucked in. And once in, how very difficult it is to get out.
Pennyplant
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I need to hear over and over that i am still ok even though I subjected myself to the ongoing abuse. When I hear that you guys went through the same kinds of things it is so easy for me to have compassion for you and to understand how you were manipulated.
Parts of the story play over and over in my head and it is helping me to exorcise them.
thank you.
Sea storm
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I don’t feel uncomfortable to tell my story. It’s so detailed and so long. It truly is a horror story. I dealt with my trauma years ago. Dealing with my friend that I spoke about in post and hearing from my ex sister in law right before X-Mass to let us know my children’s grandmother was dying put me post-traumatic. I cut off contact with them 15 years ago. I still keep it that way. I’ll try to do this as simple as I can. It’s not that I don’t want to tell it. It’s very hard to put it into words.
I’ll give you a brief and if you have any questions you can ask me.
I met my ex-h got married and pregnant. Lost my first baby she died 2hrs after birth.
Got pregnant with my daughter who is turning 23 in Feb. My ex-h drank and was dabbling in drugs. Confrontations broke out. I knew something was very wrong and assumed it was his substance abuse. There were lies. I believed he had a secret life. There was money missing. Nights out. Paychecks spent. His behavior became odder and odder. His job covered for him, his friends covered for him. I could not make sense of anything. I started to lose my dignity; I started to lose myself respect. I decided to take the bull by the horns and take it back. I started to investigate, I started to put some heat on him, and I started to put some heat on his job since they involved themselves. I started to push back. I enraged him. .
One night I went to the bar to get the paycheck. I was calm. I needed diapers for my baby. Oh I was also 6 weeks pregnant. He walked me out of the bar to my car. We got in an argument. He went into A NUT RAGE, He started to scream get in the F’ing car and pushed me. I think I might have blocked this cause I really don’t remember what he said. I don’t know if he said he was going to blow my head off or not. Anyway my car had automatic locks and the key would not push up the lock. I kept looking at the construction workers to see if they were looking at me (and they were). I felt a little safe.
He got frustrated and walked off. Now I’m standing with a car that the doors are broken.
I put the key in one more time and boom they opened up. I called the police earlier but they treated me like a hysterical housewife. I went to my sisters told her what happened and she became outraged, got dressed and off we went to the police station. They sent a car out to go lock up my husband. Someone told him they were coming and he fled.
My sister and I went to get a coffee and think about what to do. I don’t know why nor does she but she opened my glove compartment. She pulled out a plastic bag with a fake mustache and make-up. We were both really puzzled. My ex was never in trouble and held a city job.
Oh he was also on vacation starting that night.
Back to the story. I reached to get his duffel bag out of the back seat. I put in on my lap and felt it. I said to my sister, OH God! Please don’t let me think this is what I think it is. I pulled it out and it was a sawed off shotgun.
Now we drove for hours not knowing what to do. I was exhausted and pregnant so we hid my car and I went to her house to get some sleep. I awoke and called the police.
They came took it out put it on the front of my car. I asked them if it was real. It was red so it looked like a fake gun. It was loaded. I said I have a mustache too. They said they didn’t need it. I threw it out. They took the gun and left. I went home to do some laundry. I was home about 2 hours and I got a call from a detective Deb do you still have the mustache. No, I threw it out but I can get it. Ok Deb we’ll be right over to get it.
They came I gave it to them. They asked my neighbor downstairs if she could watch my daughter and asked me to come to the police station with them. I was annoyed cause I was doing laundry but said all right. I went in and they said Deb sit a few mins. I said ok.
I saw these two men coming in dressed really well and very good looking with briefcases.
They shook my hand and said Deb we are with the FBI. They knew I was pregnant so they were very careful and kind with me. They asked me to look at a picture and if I knew the person in it. I looked and it was my ex-n in disguise. He was robbing banks for a few months. I just about fainted. They asked me where he was. I said I didn’t know he started vacation. They said he must know by now you found the gun and they would not leave my side. They started a set-up and I helped them. They put me on the phone with them on another they told me to look for him. Couldn’t find him. Finally a call came in and it was he. They told me to answer it and act just like I normally would. I did. I got him to convinced to come home. They hung up the phone. The two FBI agents went to my terrace doors with guns drawn. The Detectives went to my neighbor’s made them all get on the floor with the kids. I heard all kinds of commotion and screaming we got him.
I went out and he was thrown over my car. There were FBI Agents all over. There were ones with newspapers like they were reading them. There were ones in the phone booth. They were all over. They immeadiately removed me from the scene and put me in a car.
I couldn’t make sense what was going on. They said he was just short of going on America’s most wanted. He discharged the gun in a bank. I was in SHOCK.
It was if I was in an unreal world.
.
My life became an open book. I was on the news, I was in a magazine, and I was on a current affair. I had offers for books, I have offers for movies. I had all kinds of people calling me.
This was not my life. This was not something I wanted.
And that was not even the end of the story but I’m too tired to write anymore.
So yes, I felt shame, fooled, a jerk, but I got over it in time.
He doesn’t feel real to me anymore. It has passed and I’m ok.
Love ya all,
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Oh My Lord, Deb! :shock:
I'm so glad you are OUT and AWAY from all that mess!!!!
Bones
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Debkor - what a tragic story! That must have been horrible to live through and you haven't even covered much that you must have gone through - trial and exposure. Your poor precious children! How glad you are here, glad you are healing. - Gaining strength
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It was if I was in an unreal world.
.
My life became an open book. I was on the news, I was in a magazine, and I was on a current affair. I had offers for books, I have offers for movies. I had all kinds of people calling me.
This was not my life. This was not something I wanted.
And that was not even the end of the story but I'm too tired to write anymore.
So yes, I felt shame, fooled, a jerk, but I got over it in time.
He doesn't feel real to me anymore. It has passed and I'm ok.
Love ya all,
Yikes x a million, debkor.
and we think these things happen only on TV, or to us.
You told you story very succinctly (in a nutshell) and it is horrendous. Bravo to you for keeping your head and doing what you did
Very good post, CB, about sharing.
I feel safe in sharing here, and have also shared more than ever before, on this site.
I haven't checked them all, but so far I have found only one site where my (nick)name comes up in Google., but it is a lyric posting site, which to me is entirely different.
xx
Izzy
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Debkor:
Holy Cow! That is an amazing story. Those kinds of things blow a person's ming. I am so sorry for the loss of your newborn baby.
Somehow there is the story and the narration of events and then their is the emotional life that you went through..... all the feelings of confusion, betrayal, the lies. This really does fog up our brains.
I am happy that you feel you have survived it.
Thanks for sharing your story. Our stories help each other.
We are not just the sum parts of the craziness that we had to live with. I am just trying to retrieve my spirit and my personality bit by bit.
Looking back I seemed to chosse being in the spin cycle where spouses were concerned. hubby no. 1 was a criminal too. He was a big time cocaine dealer. I didn't realize he was becoming a criminal. He was a good ole working man when we started out. The lure of big money and being part of an arty jet set sort of sucked him up forevermore. Life is really interesting. I was busy trying to be a better wife, gardener, mother, lover, sexgoddess etc. to try to get his attention focused back and home and hearth. I had no idea. Maybe a teeny idea. Now I would be a major snoop. I like the way you took the reins and started finding out what was going on. One should do that immediately. Hire a detective if necessary. It would save YEARS of misery.
CB
I love your words of wisdom and comfort. Blessings to you.
Today was a hard day. I was with an exciting N girlfriend. I find I don't like the experience anymore. I become voiceless with her. I ended up crying all the way home. She said " Oh well he was probably having great sex for months with his mistress". I didn't need a technocolor picture of it. I do that for my own torture.
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Aww, Sea.
Sex is probably the only intmacy he's capable of. And I'm sure he's quite a performer.
You deserve to complete your healing, stay away from anyone as insensitive as that Ngirlnotfriend, and one day, you will have someone to hold. You'll hold each other because you love and care about each other, and that's a different kind of touch.
love,
Hops
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Deb,
I too am so very sorry about your baby. It sounds as though you didn't even have time for grief.
I am so glad you are away from that crazy violent destructive ill man.
Do you feel unhooked from the drama drug?
Hmm. I think that's what it is, do you? It IS exciting to be with someone who's imagininative and nonconformist. I've always been drawn to outsiders. Still am. But on some level, I think my task is to find the unconventional soul with a steady, trustworthy heart.
Hops
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Sea and all,
Here is another fool. I am feeling very low today, physically sick and emotionally very very low. I too feel like such a fool. It is something about the madness, the more it spins out of control the more I feel unable to take a step out. It reminds me of being in a play or such like where you know you are part of the scene but are also observing it from the outside.
It all sounds so painful. I think what is amazing it he Ns ability to "recover" I mean that in the sense of not real recover but their ability to pick themselves up and off to the next victim.
Deb,
Words fail me, reading your story sent shivers up my spine.
Hops,
Oh how I have always always been attracted to the outsiders not so good at spotting the ones with the steady trustworthy heart.
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Sea, Izzy and Deb,
I find it really hard to comment on your stories because whatever I say feels trite.
Each of you has been through horror.
I deeply respect you all for having the guts to tell your stories and the deep, deep courage to go on with your lives.
Each of you are incredibly brave and inspiring.
By telling your stories, each of you has brought goodness into the world because you are inspiring so many people by showing that one can go on living even after experiencing hell.
Thank you all so much.
dazed
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Part three: Not seeing the signals.
We moved into a house on the lake. I was working at a new job and it was way too huge for me or anyone. I was fried by the end of the day. I would come home and N did not have dinner or had not washed a dish or swept the floor. Nada. I would do the laundry. About this time he said he wanted to control the finances because I was not capable of doing this. I organized mountains of things at work but I agreed because I wanted him to feel good. i started to pay all the bills for moorane and mortgage on his houseboat, moorage for sail boat and 13,000.00 for his airplane. He told me we were going to be together for life. He would often say this.
There never seemed to be enough money in the account anymore. No extras for me.
After about 6 months of this I got fed up and told him to step up to the plate. This was like saying something unspeakable to him. This would interfere with his saving for retirement. He was 52. As soon as we moved in together he was disinterested in sex. I had never had a partner like that. I like sex and intimacy and cuddling. Cuddling was ok but nothing else.
I was happy he had stopped drinking and he told me it would take a year to adjust physically and mentally.
We bought a house together. I paid for most of it 2/3. I then got a mortgage for another 30,000 and put that into the house to make it liveable. It was a fixer upper and in four years N did nothing to fix it up even though most of that time he did not work. He spent enormous ammounts of time on the phone.
He was subtly denigrating me almost continually. Don't crinkle paper, stop sniffing, don't say "you know so much" , don't sigh. dont wiggle in bed.dont make sounds when you eat, no eating candy.
I tried to be fastidious and eat with decorum. I am sort of sensitive about stuff like that and I bent over backwards.
I felt exhausted after about 8 months of this. No help at home and expectations of nice creature comforts and good meals. I think a I balked a few times but the tantrums weren't worth it.
I ended up on stress leave. N became really freaked out when it looked like I might lose my job. He could not stand the idea of me doing something else that paid less. Finally I went back to work because we just could not manage on disability. He was not inspired to help at all. He would say things like'" If this place was tidier I might want to keep it clean" or "I cant stand the clutter so I am not doing anything".
I worked hard and when it came time for a few days off, N would inevitably head off with his daughter with whom he had a very romantic relationship. He would take her traveling and to nice restaurants, sailing etc. All on my money. His daughter was distainful of me. It was a very icky triange. I tried to explain to him that I wanted to like her and to have fun as a group but this was not an option.
Now these things were happening and it sounds really aweful and like there was nothing between us. But N would swear undying love to me. He promised to take me all over the world. Oh the adventures we would have.
It got worse and worse of course. He got a job but told me he did not get paid by them. I found out months after he left that he did get paid 4000.00. But he squirrelled it away in a private account.
IN Feb '06 he began an email affair with an old friend. It must have heated up quite quickly. N was still encouraging me to double the mortgage payments and he had not contributed for more than a year. I was getting really angry about this. When I brought it up he would say, "Oh you are having another episode". This got worse and worse. He would scream at me" You are psychotic. Get help. You are a sick woman". I did not grasp what was happening. Whenever I brought up an issue that needed to be worked through, it became a circular, babbling labyrinth of bullshit. I would ask him where is the money going. Then he would freak right out.
He started to get sort of paranoid and accused me of wanting to destroy his family heirlooms. There were lots of them but I would not do that in a million years. He moved them to friends houses and told the friends that I was dangerous and psychotic. HE told my friends and my daughter this. This was a nightmare. Slander is an aweful thing. People cant help but think there is something to it.
I went off on stress leave again. N told my psychologist that I was homocidal and suicidal. I was not either. He said that he had to hide the guns. I think now that he was on a rampage of projection. His devaluing of me became like a Wagnerian opera.
When he finally went fishing I was relieved. He promised me he would send money when he sold some fish. I paid for the licenses of both he and his buddy ( over 1000.00) Just before he left he paid his accountant 2000.00. This left me with almost nothing for the two months of summer. I would phone him and he acted shifty. He said he had not sold any fish. I started to get frantic. Our expenses were over 2000.00 a month. I had no money for food. It was his turn to help. He turned off his cell phone and acted like i was harassing him. He told his fishing buddies that I was cruel and was verbally abusing him. They advised him to turn off his cell phone, which he did. He never did come up with any money. I had to go to my brother for a loan. N did not see anything wrong with this.
Agani, he would act like I was just crazy. His friends out fishing thought I was nuts. ( It turns out that he was phoning his new sweetie every day).
I phoned his partner and told him I had paid for the licenses and had no money. He sent a cheque. N insisted on putting it in his bank and tranferring the money to our joint account. I have no idea why. HE was always doing fast things like that.
N told me he needed time to decompress when he got back from fishing. He sort of didn't come home for three weeks. I think he went off with some woman.
He gave me & 500.00. This is ridiculous. I told him he had to start paying, sell his property or cash in some savings or he had to start fixing up the house. HE WAS FURIOUS. He said that he had no option but to leave. I had thrown him out of his own home. I felt toltally bonkers. I could not tell up from down. N was a really good talker and usually I would give up rather than try to clarify what he was saying His bafflegab was monumental. I know he likes to get the upper hand on people in a sort of gleeful, immature and sadistic way. I did not thing that this behaviour would include me.
It got horribly messy and painful. I cried all the time. I did not know what was going on. I begged him to tell me. Once he said off-handedly, " A good marriage should be able to handle an affair". I replied that I would bury him in the backyard if he did that. He looked really shocked.
I found some phone bills that were sent to a private mailbox in his name in another town. The bills showed that he called this other woman nearly everyday since Feb 06. It was October 14
He said that he was going moose hunting, which I knew about. Then he was going to go around the province looking for jobs. He said he was going Calgary for 2 weeks. Then I found out about the new woman. I was so hurt and angry. I punced him on the arm ( He is a big man and was not hurt one little bit). He calmly called the police and I was arrested ( They automatically arrest people here. I had to get a lawyer and still stand to lose my professional liscence over this. I could hear him talking to the police saying " She is violent officer and this is not the first time. She has bipolar disorder and is under a psychiatrists care" He was laughing and talking to the policeman. They did not know that I could hear everything through the window. As I drove off N was laughing and talking to the police. He was really enjoying this. I was devastated. I was sobbing.
That was a brutal, brutal day for me.
I came back the next day and he was gone. There was an email from one of his lady friends and it said," I am looking forward to playing with you this winter. I called all over for you but I guess you are in Calgary with your new sweetie". I nearly died when I read that email. Obviousely, this old girlfriend knew all about it. He had planned his exit.
So I had been financially abandoned, cheated and swindled, I found out he was an adulterer with more than one woman and that he planned to relocate thousands of miles away and I got arrested all on the same day.
I could not stand the pain. I remember that. and the shock was like being hit by a truck. I don't know what this sounds like. I loved him with all my heart and I was completely committed to him. I thought he was an honest man.
I did not think I could live through this.
Everything I had clung to was falling away. My job was too much for me, my daughter was alienated from me, my friends were mostly gone and I ddi not know anyone in the little town we lived in. Finalncially, I was in the lurch and was not sure how to hang onto the house. N would not pay a cent to keep it. It was in his interest to sell now.
He did not have any empathy for me at all. When he flipped into this new creature he was not looking back. I thought I must deserve this because new age philosophy says we create our reality. But I could not stand that thougtht.
I would welcome any thoughts or insights. Really welcome them.
Sea storm
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Storm,
Oh no, no, no Storm you do not deserve this. This man worked you. He did it little by little. It’s a process and they know how to work it. He chipped away at you one thing at a time. He’s a liar, a cheat, He lives off women, a thief, a con, and he’s one of nature’s mistakes. I’m sorry that jerk got you locked up for giving him a tap in the arm. Here let me help you. *SLAP* PUNCH* KICK*. You slimy little snake. That’s for hurting my friend Storm. Sorry I guess I do still get angry at pigs like our ex’s.
I use to worry about clearing things up with the people my ex told I was a nut. I felt that I had to defend myself to everyone. I guess that’s why they call it voiceless. Nobody was hearing me. They all thought he was this great guy. It made me crazy.
I had felt the same way you do. How could he do this to me? I loved him. I did not deserve this. It just takes time Storm.
I wrote some about my ex and did not finish. There is another part. That’s along story too ugh. About oh, 2 years of his incarceration I went to my moms house and she gave me a letter that was sent there addressed to me. It was from the state I was living in with my ex and they were looking for him for child support. Not my children. He must have had an affair/affairs when we were married and the girl had a baby. She was looking for him.
I opened the letter, looked at it and threw it out. I didn’t blink an eye. I was so removed from it all by now.
Let me explain how I feel about my ex now. GAG!
You will get there Storm you really will.
Hang on there kid and cut yourself a break.
Thanks to everyone for all your kind words. Yes I am out of my crazy life with my ex for about 17 years now. I have survived that ordeal. My two children I had with him are doing really well. Both are in college and well-rounded kids. I’ve been busy doing those fun things like shampooing carpets* sigh * Someday I promise I will finish the story.
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Sorry Seastorm ,(storm)
Only put half your name. I'm so tired right now. I'm sorry.
Deb
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Oh (((((((((((((((((((((Sea)))))))))))))))))))),
He truly was evil. Not only mentally ill, but actually evil.
Thank G-d you are no longer in the hands of evil.
You literally have been delivered from the hands of evil.
I love what CB wrote, especially about boiling frogs, gaslighting and especially about freedom.
Sea, you are now free and it is OVER.
Yes, you still must deal with the repercussions, but you are doing that.
Debkor is right: you will get there.
(((((((((((((((((((Debkor))))))))))))))))),
I'm so happy that you got through your evil and that you've got your life back.
Love,
dazed
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Sea, hon,
Here's what I'm reading between the lines of the accident report.
You are a COMPETENT woman who can earn her own living.
When you are healed from the shock and horror and self-punishment (haven't you had enough? It's the worst part but get through that asap...), what you are left with is being a wiser woman who is very competent and can earn her own living.
One thing I come thru reading these stories is that I believe women should ALWAYS (even with 10 kids) have or create a way to support themselves, have credit and property in their own names, etc.
Sea. When you're better (you WILL be healed from this, your new self is emerging right now, as you read, and as you write)...you will still have those capabilities. And I bet you'll earn, and save, and budget, and bank it.
A couple years from now, I bet you'll look back on him (faint nausea but mostly icck), and think, and who knew, this man taught me financial responsibility. And admire your investments with pride.
It is NO FAIR that we should have to learn these things the hard way. But that might be in truth one silver lining that's come from this horrible storm.
lots of love to you, Sea.
Hops
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Know what CB?
I don't think you're capable of long-term bitterness.
I don't think it's even in your wiring. Too much love of life.
So don't worry about the short-term bouts of it.
I feel bilious about your X too. Bleaaahhh.
hugs, and off to work...
Hops
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CB,
Your strength to get through victimhood and fear and bitterness is an inspirational .
Wow and the coldness of your n when you were in the middle of so much trauma must have been so painful.
That kind of a heartless n does teach lessons in a way.
This kind of lesson CAN lead to lifelong fear and bitterness or freedom .
Well CB you have surly shown the way to freedom ,LOVE and kindness......
I learned that even a breakdown wouldnt crack my NH's veneer. I had to drive myself to the doctor even though I had this unreasoning fear that the car would take over from my control and veer into the river. When I was on the Xanax and couldnt drive, he told me to find someone else to get me to the doctor. Even though he wasnt working and could take me. I stayed home with my kids, in my bathrobe for months--trying to take care of them and not give up. Somewhere deep inside I KNEW that it was related to my bitterness. It had eaten a hole in me and I was hemorrhaging emotionally.
so much love to you
m
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Hops,
Do you feel unhooked from the drama drug?
Hmm. I think that's what it is, do you
Oh yes, that is exactly what I think. It was like a drug. I was hooked.
Like watching a TV series, and next week tune in, next month this will happen, tune in 2 years from now and see what else will happen cause their will always be something happening till I get bored with it never getting to the end of the story or stop watching it cause it will never turn out how I want it to.
I didn't like the drama.
I was always trying to rewrite the script, change the characters and their roles. And sometimes it would change (temp only) just enough for me to believe things were changing in my favor just enough to get me hooked again. When I finally took my character out, (me) ended her position, her role in this crazy never ending saga I was then able to go onto a new role. I star in this role now. I write my own script and if don't like it I simply change it. I think I have enough experience now to be able to see what outcome I want at the end and it's not anymore drama.
I'm unhooked. I went cold turkey.
Although I still see the reruns sometimes.
Love ya all,
Deb
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Could someone get back to my story? Maybe it is all said but I would like to understand. I feel mad to understand. I learned my lesson financially.
What is this gaslightling? I think it is telling someone they are crazy over and over. Why don't I get it? If I understand then why won't the pain of loving him just go away?
I still want to pick up the phone and beg him to tell me I have it all wrong.
I am so close to being destroyed. I am not bitter. That would be better than feeling destroyed at this point.
Sea storm
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Hi seastorm,
Threads sometimes go in directions we don't intend.
Anyway let me tell you a little story. My wife was married twice before. Her first husband, her high school sweetheart, developed mental problems and got hooked on drugs. He became violent. She tried to stay with him but the last time he put her in the hospital for a week with broken ribs. She was forced to divorce him.
Her second husband wasn't violent. He was a con man/probable N who after a couple of years of marriage abandoned her and his teenage daughter for some floozy.
She always tells me that the pain of being tossed out like a piece of trash by her second husband was far more painful than the physical abuse of her first.
They manipulate and coerce and bully people into thinking there is something wrong with their victims. They even make us think there is something wrong with ourselves. When its still fresh, part of us wants to blame ourselves for what is entirely someone else's doing.
Somebody else will have to enlighten you on the desire to still love the guy as I have never been involved romantically with an N.
I do believe however that you are not close to being destroyed. I believe the pain of betrayal makes you feel that you are, right now. But time and distance will let you look back and see that you are stronger than you think.
mud
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Sea
CB is right. Very well said CB.
You want to call him and beg him to reassure you because he has been your drug. You are calling it love, but it really isnt. It's really your addiction.
He was going to destroy you, Sea. He still will destroy you if you give him the chance. That's what he does.
So very true.
Thinking back still gives me shivers.
Deb
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Sea,
There will be a time you will have passed thru the gaslighting and look back and it will be OK.
When you are in the middle of it it is two steps forward and one back .
Feeling confused and not understanding that you can trust your own judgments all normal reactions after being manipulated by an abuser.
They will lie with there last breath and enjoy your struggle.Do not give your power away.
Much love to you sea
Hold on and it will pass.
Deliberate cruelty is not acceptable
Moon
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Hear, hear, CB...amazing post. Dittos Deb and Moon...
Sea, I am waving my arms madly in front of you telling you I have the book that will help you NOW,
is written for what you're going through RIGHT NOW...
Truly. Escape from Intimacy by Anne Wilson Schaf.
I think it would help you.
Deliberate cruelty is not an option -- yes ma'am, Moon!
That's from him to you. Deliberate cruelty from your sick self to your inner whole self isn't okay either.
That would be you exposing and re-exposing yourself to his sickness, and exacerbating your own.
Keep breathing, keep posting, and understand that despair feels deadly, but it will move you through.
Try to be sweet to yourself tonight, Sea, genuinely kind.
Love yourself, really focus on sending compassion like a warm searchlight into your own chest.
Visualize it.
When I have been heartbroken like that, I have held myself, wrapped my arms around, and said in the most loving voice,
"It's okay, honey. It's really okay." I would repeat it as long as it took.
love to you,
Hops
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IF ANOTHER N TRIED TO GET MONEY FROM ME AND MAKE ME WORK HARD, I WOULD SAY NO, NO, NO.
IF I HAD ANOTHER N BOSS I WOULD NOT STICK IT OUT, I WOULD LEAVE FAST. THE PRICE IS TOO HIGH ON HEALTH AND WELL BEING.
IF SOMEONE WAS LEACHING OFF ME LONG TERM I WOULD HOPEFULLY CUT 'EM LOSE. My exN now blames me for the time he didn't work and said that I enabled him.
Sea storm
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Thank you for the kind words and the insights. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. This is helping me get through this.
There is a blueprint for rebuilding a personality that has been torn apart here. The blueprint is for a fortress that is light and beautiful and strong. I hear that it needs a good foundation and I cant keep building on sand. There is Family of Origin work to be done.
I will get that book HOPS.
I want to reply to all of you and I will. I am so tired though. You have all taken me to a better place. I love you guys.
Sea storm
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Seastorm,
i have been feeling so bad the past few days, lots of pain and terror. Went online and read this thread. While your story is different to mine in some ways. The constant giving, hoping, appeasing, which was met with coldness and cruelty is very familiar. You sound as if you were a very independant, together woman when he met you and now that he is gone you have been left in a pile in the middle of the floor. Familiar to me also. How does this happen.
Yes, the gaslighting but there is something in us that gets pressed around being the GIVER, the good person, the understanding one. The boiling frog is so smart. It happens so slowly. I had a flash back the other day to the guy I met and said out loud where did he go and when did he leave? It was all so slow and slippery until the real N emerged then it was complete war.
I guess in a nutshell your story is like so many others here. He lied, cheated, took everything he could from you, tried to break you and took great pleasure in it. You gave and gave and gave. The more you gave the less you got. He projected his madness onto you and walked away feeling like he was the victim trying to deal with the crazy woman.
So much of it is addiction Sea. I know this. I am so grateful to CB because this morning my addiction kicked in and I was feeling quite desperate. Reading this post has pushed me back to a place where I want to be healthy again and not stuck in the madness.
You are right building on sand does not work. I used to say to XN that being in a relationship with him was like trying to build a house on shifting sand. So sad for your pain Sea really feel it myself today so I can empathise.
Sending you lots of love and hugs.............. and do what hops said about holding yourself it does help.
axa
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The addiction thing holds true for me. And Ns can sense whatever it is you are addicted to. And they take the easy way in. I think most of the time the way in that they take is related to sexuality. That is the drug of choice often enough. I have read several stories here of married ones whose N will flirt with them to the point of bringing out desire and them leave them cold and alone. They are the ultimate tease. They know how to trigger that sexual chemistry and tension. And those are real chemicals coursing through you. And I believe that is one of the simpler ways they do it.
I watched a co-worker of mine over a period of two years and that was how she operated. She was able to find a way to "arouse" nearly everyone in the building at one time or another. Males as well as females. It was subtle sometimes. Occasionally people caught on. Then she stopped hanging out with them. The way I caught on was I noticed that she made a point of complimenting me on a particular pairs of jeans I own. She said things about how they looked on me that I would have expected a guy to comment on. It got to where I felt funny wearing them because she invariably made the same comment every single time about my body. And it did make me feel, hmmm, bashful maybe is the word. It struck something in me. And it also reminded me of something I have done and still occasionally do. If I'm feeling vulnerable I will purposely wear something clingy. I call it wearing my "power shirt". And it works nearly every time. It gets attention when I do this. Not always good attention, though.
Do you see what I'm getting at? Sexuality is tied to power. Ns are into power and they are primal enough that they would know to use the easiest power tool there is--sexuality. Which, when it is used on others, draws out a chemical reaction. And one can get addicted to that. Once the addiction sets in, you're really, truly going to struggle to break it. Meanwhile, they can play with your head all they want and that makes it harder to break it.
This may sound off the wall, but that is how I explain to myself how I got sucked in. Yes, the lack of boundaries made me very suspectible. The kind of childhood training I received made me susceptible. But the not so secret ingredient most often is sexuality.
Pennyplant
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Penny,
Interesting post. Our initial sexual relationship was about XN having intercourse and he getting his pleasure. There was nothinng shared from his perspective. I tried to talk to him, bought books, blah blah blah but he had absolutly no interest whatsoever in having a loving shared sexual relationship. Needless to say I found this frustrating. Somethimes when we were in bed he would behave as if he was going to initiate some foreplay but as soon as I got hooked he would "fall asleep". I learned to not respond to his hand on my thigh because I knew that as soon as I engaged in any way he would stop. It did not take long for our sex life to end. He would joke that he was an estite (sic) dont know how to spell it! I was aware from early on that there was a sense of "nobody there" when we did have sex. I often wondered if he was gay which he denied. His main interest sexually, if he was not looking for supply, was porn and mastrubation.
As time went on he would tease, taunt, lead me on, cuddle, always hold me when there were others around but would almost never follow through. I asked him how he would feel if I had sex with someone else (had no intention of doing so) and he said what would that make us then, what about our relationship. He told me he had an aversion to me because I had undermined him so much sexually and he could never recover from that. he told me his xwife did not expect him to please her and could not see why I wanted. Oh God just writing this bull makes me ill. Of course it was all about power, the cat playing with the mouse, what sickos they are.
I think Sam V is very good around this stuff. I do believe they are terrified of intimacy and so sex is just another tool in the armoury
In the beginning he told me one morning in bed that it was just like being a child and being in bed with his mother. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I MUST HAVE BEEN ON DRUGS OR SOMETHING
Axa
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Seastorm - I don't think you have finished grieving. This loss is no different from loss due to death. You have not come to terms with the death of your relationship much less the unbearable betrayals. And you must come to terms with these excrutiaing losses before you can begin to see what changes you need to make in yourself.
Look for some groups to join in your community where there are other people who are dealing with the loss of a relationship. Often churches will have a "re-singled" group. These can be very healing groups of people where you can find support and understanding for what you are going through.
When you have gotten some healing from this terrible loss and betrayal then you will be ready to address what part of you was drawn to such an unfeeling human. Set a goal - I will get over this man. Make it more positive, "I will heal and become a person drawn to a kind, adoring, caring man." Try something like, "I am too valuable to want to be with this N." Change the words until it feels right. Maybe, "I still hurt but I know that I am too valuable to for a man like Nh." or "I deserve much better than the treatment from Nh and I will grow strong inspite of him."
Set a goal and believe it. Write it down and look at it every morning, several times during the day, and at night before you go to sleep. When you start to sink, repeat your goal to yourself over and over until the sting of your grief is softened. Having a goal and having a battle plan for when the dark feelings come over you can be a lifesaver and can carry you through to better times. These have pulled me through in a way that I am daily amazed by.
My heart is with you - your friend - Gaining Strength
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Gaining strength and all,
Thank you for your help.
One thing that is playing in my head and I am saying it over and over is, " I will get over him". I could not even conceive of this even a week ago. So I say it to make it so.
I find myself reaching out now. In a store I talked to a woman about her paintings and she told me the story of her cancelled wedding. Then I went for coffe, a latte, and the man made a beautiful tulip on it. I told him how lovely it was and then sat down and started to talk to a fellow reading a magazine about boats. He ended up telling me about a year he spent as a llighthouse tender. So I am opening up a lilttle. This is a big change. They did not know I was broken hearted and the normalcy of the talking was healing.
I have been getting ideas too. I thought of subdividing my property so I could pay it off and live in a smaller portion of it. I am not making leaps and bounds but at least I am not completely paralyed.
I need to get on with the divorce but every time I do I just spin out of control with grief. I will try again next week.
Love to all of you,
Sea storm
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In the beginning he told me one morning in bed that it was just like being a child and being in bed with his mother.
For about the last year or so, I have had a niggling thought in the back of my mind, that to my now xNh, he regarded me more like a mother.
Leah
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Gaining strength and all,
Thank you for your help.
One thing that is playing in my head and I am saying it over and over is, " I will get over him". I could not even conceive of this even a week ago. So I say it to make it so.
I find myself reaching out now. In a store I talked to a woman about her paintings and she told me the story of her cancelled wedding. Then I went for coffe, a latte, and the man made a beautiful tulip on it. I told him how lovely it was and then sat down and started to talk to a fellow reading a magazine about boats. He ended up telling me about a year he spent as a llighthouse tender. So I am opening up a lilttle. This is a big change. They did not know I was broken hearted and the normalcy of the talking was healing.
I have been getting ideas too. I thought of subdividing my property so I could pay it off and live in a smaller portion of it. I am not making leaps and bounds but at least I am not completely paralyed.
I need to get on with the divorce but every time I do I just spin out of control with grief. I will try again next week.
Love to all of you,
Sea storm
Seastorm,
Well done you! You really are doing so well with lots of positive small steps in the right direction.
Leah x
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Well, axa, your description of a sexual relationship with an N makes a lot of sense if I apply it to the N I knew. I sure would hate being treated that way. And the N I knew always complained that his wife wouldn't have sex with him. Now I can see why. More power to her. The thing is, I think he only complained about it because he sensed he could gather a lot of sympathy for himself. He too was mainly interested in porn and imagining sex in his own mind. It all makes so much sense with what you say.
Pennyplant
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How a person behaves sexually says a lot about them. I have been reading voraciously about narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths. Before I thought they were labels that were pretty cut and dried but they are more like a continuum where a person can fall withing the mild, medium and extreme areas. I also think that a person's personality can deteriorate under stress and then then the sociopathic or narcissistic parts of them really come out. Often people say that they did not see the characteristics of narcissism in their partner and maybe they weren't blatantly there at the time but came out with gusto when the partner was under stress. This makes sense to me.
One characteristic of all three disorders is a preference for auto erotic sex. This is a sign of a seriously disordered person. And the only way they can rationalize their behaviour is to say it is their partners fault. It seems that if they prefer auto-erotism (masturbation) then they get up to some pretty deviant stuff if they actually do want to participate with a partner.
The other thing that all three have in common is pathological lying.
I am often tempted to write to XN and tell him that I know about how he swindlled me out of tens of thousands of dollars but I know it would be useless. He has no conscience. He really doesn't. As soon as I started to have boundaries and say that he had to contribute money to the mortgage etc. He was gone. This signalled the end of the relationship to him. Now I am seeing a man who is so infantile that he can't see himself sharing responsibility for a house and home.
The systematic undermining of my personality over years and years will take quite a while to undo. Hmmmm that sounds so rational. Right now I can barely get out of bed. I take little trips out into the world. I am still in a trance like one of Bluebeard's brides.
Up unitl now I was sort of hoping that he would come crawling back to me and apologize for all the misery he had caused. However, I think he is on vacation in Mexico and much too busy for that. Now, I think every once in awhile that I am lucky that he is gone. He feels very gone and not coming back. Furniture everything is gone. Yard still has stuff in it. No word from him.
Today is the first day that I did not cry. Wow. My body still feels like it is in shock and I wake up in the morning and think, "Oh my God, the worst has really happened" but then I just keep going.
It is horrible when someone has hurt you badly but doesn't feel a thing about it. It is really ghastly.
Sea storm
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It is ghastly, Sea. Perfect word for that level of shock and hurt, when it sinks in.
I see so much progress in this for you:
Now, I think every once in awhile that I am lucky that he is gone. He feels very gone and not coming back. Furniture everything is gone. Yard still has stuff in it. No word from him.
Today is the first day that I did not cry. Wow. My body still feels like it is in shock and I wake up in the morning and think, "Oh my God, the worst has really happened" but then I just keep going.
I hope you know that looking from the outside (and my own hindsight)...I can promise you wholeheartedly that you're on your way to better. You really are.
Be good to yourself this weekend. Be with good people. No punishing yourself, okay?
(((((Sea)))))
Hops
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thank you for your help. everyone of you brings a different perspecitve and a piece of the puzzle that I need to keep going.
I am going for Hospice Training this weekend. You may think oh no. However, I think I will like the other people in the training. This is a way to meet people. They also train people in healing touch. I am not too sure about this but will try to keep an open mind. Touch is healing
I dont like my job and would like to work with people using counselling to help them heal. This is a start in that direction. If i cry through the whole thing then maybe it is too much for me right now.
I AM a caretaker of others. A calling to service is not always a lemon suck. What I am trying to say is that if one is hit by a shark in the ocean one is not called codependent. Or told to look into yourself for what brought you to be swimiming in the ocean. There is very little eviidence that people who mate with narcissists are weak, muelling, passive masochists. I don't plan to become bitter and vindictive. I want to be a part of making my community better. Hmmmmm pretty defensive stilll.........oh well.
Sea storm
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Sea,
Well done. You are doing soooooooooooo great. I think in those moments when you engage with someone else you give your head a rest from the abuse. I think this is big stuff and am so pleased for you.
I go from being so grateful that Xn is gone to wondering if it really is over. It is just so strange. I think that time and gentleness in ourselves is our best hope.
I take your point about being hit by the shark in the ocean and not being codependant. I feel this too in so far as nothing, nothing makes the abuse ok. Nothing makes the pain and hurt and horror inflicted on us ok but for me I want to learn how to get out before I get beaten into the ground. My T said that to me recently "you dont have to stay until you are sucked dry".... this is what I want to learn about. I want to be strong and clear enough to scream NO the minute I feel the confusion. I dont want people like that in my life.
Hope your training goes well. I think there is healing for all of us in a lot of opportunities, be open and love.
Axa xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Sea,
I don't think weak mewling victims are drawn to caring for the dying.
I think strong, compassionate, brave, open and curious people are.
It's a wonderful thing to do.
(Maybe in ten years you'd be more interested in playing chess or teaching botany. But now, your work is in grief, survival, and learning to find peace in reality.)
There's nothing more real than Hospice work. Good for you.
Hops
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This is the ending of my story of the post I wrote about previously and was too tired to end. I left off with him being locked up.
A. When he got locked up he said, he lost his baby, he turned to drugs.He owed drug dealers and they were going to kill me if he didn't pay up. He robbed banks to protect me. It is all a bunch of bullshit. A made up story. He did the robbery cause he was nuts and thought he was above the law.
B. Once again he was able to pull it off. He made everyone feel sorry for him with confusion of hiding who he really was. He made the sentencing judge struggle with a decision that the judge even opened with that sentence. His family bought him presents took him to lunch blah, blah.
C. He hated me but had to put on the good face that he loved me or the public would see him for who he was.
D. He went to jail and only served a 2 ½ sentence for good behavior.
E. He did his time, came out was OK for about 2 years and held up another place.WE did not live together.
The police called me. I went into the police station. They told me he had a BB gun. He was coming out and he pointed it at the police. They almost shot him thinking it was a real gun. The police thought that maybe he wanted to be shot and they felt bad. He seemed to be a nice guy with a lot of problems. I'm sure he told them his sad story. I looked at the officer and said you should of shot him. The police officer said you shouldn't say that and I replied I just did and walked out. Back to jail he went. That is basically the end of the story with him.
I had no contact nor did my children. I stopped all letters coming in to my children. They never read them. .
I heard that he came out of prison in 2001. I never ever filed for child support.
I did a trade off. He did not contact me or my kids. I was not going to rock the boat and file so he could retaliate with wanting to see them. I was waiting for the day my kids would turn 18 and he could not force them to have visitation or contact in any manner. They are now 20 and 22. Shew. Made it.
My kids are well rounded. They are both in college and have a good head on their shoulders. We made it. We all survived.
Deb
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Deb, You did all the right things. It's interesting to me that law enforcement ought to see the truth behind what these creeps tell them. But often enough it seems to me that there is some kind of enmeshment occurring between criminals and law enforcement. Each seems to identify too closely with the other. Can't really offer any good examples of what I mean at the moment. Your story reminded me of that, though. So, it seems to be a good example all on its own.
I'm glad you saved yourself and your children from him.
Pennyplant
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PP,
My ex was a FF. He was civil service same as Police officers. He held a heroic job as do the Police and anyone who saves lives. I think the police were really innocent to his behavior. I don't think they knew what to think. They really think that this poor bastard went over the edge. I guess anyone can get mu niplated. Most of the people I dealt with were decent Honorable people, I guess they had as much as a hard time as I did digesting it.
Love Deb
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Hi DebKor,
What a story. I love the way you set your boundaries and that was that. It must have taken a lot of guts.
The police in my case were easily sucked in by N. He is a big, good looking , rough and funny guy. Charming. He friggin charmed the police into taking me away. They were chatting up a storm. I guess this is the patriarchal system at work.
Personally, I found the lack of empathy from the police at the scene of the crime to be shockingly inadequate. Later, one of the policemen was really sweet and confessed that he didn't fall for the BS but just went along with X to see how far he would go. He told me to go to victim services and get a lawyer.
It feels like revictimization to have the police cozying up to the offender.
Keep telling your story or any parts of its DebKor that are stuck and replaying in your head. Expiate those demons.
Lots of love,
Sea storm
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Sea,
It wasn't always like that.
I remember taking money out of my husbands pocket.
I called the police when I was safe and said to get thim out. They came and knocked on the door. He said he was FF. They told him to shut up and just leave. They didn't have to, not right at that moment by law. He told them I took money from him and he would not leave without it. They came to my neighbor's and told me to give the money. I said what money. Get him out. They said no. I was becoming a nuisance to them. I said if you leave I will call you back. I will let him hit me. I don't care what it takes get him out. They left. I called them back. This time they came with a Sargent. I was not giving in. The Sargent went upstairs spoke to him found out he was a FF came down and told me to give him the money back. I said what money? I needed that money cause it would be the last until I went to court. The Sargent said look if you don't give the money back I will lock you up. I gave in threw the money at him. The police escorted me upstairs to get some stuff and I was leaving. As I was going to my car in front of the Police officers. He yelled my name and hung my dog off the terrace. Right in front of them. I said look, lock him up NOW. They said they couldn't. I left and went to my sisters hysterical.
She became enraged. She took me to the police station. As we were going up the Sargent was coming down. He called my sister by name looked at me and said I did not know she was your sister and sent a car out right away. See he learned I was Police Dept Family and the ballgame changed. Otherwise if I would of kept my grounds and the money. I would be sitting in jail that night.
Love Deb
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Sea,
Listen to me. I was labled when I was going through all this (before we found out he was a nut) except by my family and my friends.
I was the hysterical housewife.
Bitch
Nut
Over reacting
Trouble Maker
What ever they wanted to think or say about me.
They supported him.
When it all went down they cut him off. They turned their backs and they were afraid of me. I knew too much about all of them. Well not all. Some were very good people.
So Sea don’t sweat too much about your ex and what his friends and family think or say about you. You know the real deal. Who cares what they think? Only matters what you think.
Love Deb
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Thanks Deb,
It is comforting to know that you understand the feeling of being slandered.
The police were very weird. They saw your X hand the dog over the railing.They knew he was out of control. Even though they helped you in the end it was because of your status and not because of the event.everything gets turned upside down.
All that name calling sounds horrid. I am so glad it is a distant memory. You have a lot of courage that is for sure.
Love,
Sea storm
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Deb...
did your dog survive?
I hope so.
I'm so sorry for what you went through.
I hope you have pride in your survival and learning.
Those are large gifts that don't register much in the world,
but if we know, and we value...they are huge.
((((Deb))))
Hops
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Hey Sea,
I don’t think I had courage in the beginning. I just acted on what I had to so I could survive. I blocked my thinking. I blocked thinking about him and how he was hurting me. I realized he didn’t have power over me. I gave it to him. Now how was I going to get power back? I started planning. That kicked in my courage. My courage kicked in my self-esteem; my self-esteem kicked in my dignity and then came my power. As far as being slandered. I didn’t care who he was slandering me to, who would listen who would believe him cause they couldn’t hold a candle to my ass anyway.
Wouldn’t have been so much easier when the N’s started working their N stuff if we would of just given them a blank stare and said Frankly my dear I don’t give a damn.
Now there was a major N Scarlet O’Hara.
Hops,
Thank you.
My dog was fine. He did not hurt her. I would have killed him myself. I wish she would of bit him.
Yes I have pride in my survival and learning.
I had to dig way deep at the time to get it back. It never left it just got a little buried. I dug deep and grabbed on to it and never will let it go again.
Love
Deb
P.S. It's frezzing here. I need to move.
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DEb,
You are an inspiration. I love that fiesty spirit of yours. It is holding on to each little bit and I think knowing our own truth. We must valicate our truth. If we could have quoted Scarlet they would not have stayed around for a minute............ no supply.
holding on here too
Axa