Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: DivineSunshine on February 01, 2007, 05:30:39 PM
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(I just want ya'll to know I am not ever male-bashing. it just happens to be my husband who is my worst N offender. Males in general, I am sure, are wonderful people. :)
So......
Which is better? In your opinion.
Up until the last year or so, I have said almost nothing to anyone. I have just kept my mouth shut for nearly 17 years and maintained the peace in the home as mother and wife of a very selfish angry man. I even hate to complain and now I feel like that is what I am doing a lot of.
I have stood up on a few occasions lately and fell apart emotionally after years of living this way, I guess I am finally cracking. ( Sometimes I feel better reading about N's and sometimes I feel worse. Most of the time--- better.)
In my effort to make a stand, there have been some "scenes" in front of my kids. Which is absolutely the LAST thing I wish to happen. But having grown up in a family where emotions were not shown in ANY form, and I know this has affected me, I wonder.........
Do kids learn more by seeing me stand up for my rights or are they wounded more by hearing a fight or breakdown now and then?
Do they learn from a quiet, peaceful, orderly home or are they wounded by my silence and obedience and complacency in the midst of the covert N abuse that we suffer.
At least they don't have to see fighting. I keep telling myself. I know NOT seeing emotion at all is not great either, from my own childhood. No love, no anger, no joy...just zombies. Mom was the zombie looking in the mirror, ignoring the children. I don't even know if there is a right answer to this question. I ask myself every day. And my mind is mush.
Sure they have seen rage from their dad a lot. And I have had to be the "heavy" with them to keep them in line, because if I didn't do it, HE WOULD. And that would be by far worse. As a result of this, I have let him become the good guy and I seem like the bossy one. All to save them from him. Don't get me wrong, I would do it again and again for them. I am just saying it is frustrating to always have to take the fall for him. I cringe at them talking nasty about me when they grow up because they don't realize what I was really doing for them. But I am willing to take it. But I am also protecting him too aren't I? Why is this necessary? This isn't the way it should be. Is it EVER right---does anyone ever get it right?
If the house isn't clean enough for him. He rages at them, but who he is really talking to--- is me. I know it and he knows it but he can always deny it, cause after all, he didn't rage AT ME---did he?
But I can make sure it stays clean by riding the kids too hard (IMO) or just cleaning it myself and then we are all hunky dory. Except me. I am losing it and they are witnessing it and I just don't know if it is worth it. Now they walk on thin ice around me because I almost have nothing left to protect them with. My nerves are fried. I know I need to get us all away, but I know I will have to let them see their father alone and I can't be there to be the one to take the heat. I can't bear that right now.
I am just tired and confused!
Namaste,
Sunny
8)
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oh, Sunny.
You are describing my life 5 years ago. I mean EXACTLY.
It is now 2007. I got divorced in 2002.
It has taken that long to get to the point of being able to have some sense of a relationship with my N again. People can change, but it often takes a crisis situation to get them to open their eyes. It definitely took divorce, seperate living, HUGE firm boundary setting, explicit instructions about the behavior that needed to change.
And, still we struggle. I live seperately in my own apartment, but stay at the house with him a couple nights a week. This is SO difficult for him. Every time I leave to stay at my place, it's like a new breakup. But, for reason I won't go into, it's necessary at this point.
You can take control of your life. You CAN. It's totally your decision. Obviously, jumping off into the unknown is scary. But, your children are watching you, learning from you. What do you want to teach them? That it's okay to have a relationship like this? That it's okay to be treated this way? I think you would be much more effective in teaching your children that you are in control. Even the simplest things such as when he rages next, say "It is NOT okay for you to speak to me (us) that way. We are going to the park (a movie, the mall, whatever) for an hour. When we get back we can talk about this, after you are calm." And then take the kids and LEAVE.
You have no boundaries at this point. He thinks you are his arm. You do exactly what his brain tells his arm to do. If you step up and DON'T do what he tells his arm to do, it will short-circuit the program. It will change things. He will wake up and go wah? My arm did not do what I told it to. Holy sh*&. You will have to keep this up forever. And each time he talks to you in this way, you do the same thing. "I am not willing to listen to someone raging at me. I am going to ------ until you are calm." And then do it.
He needs to learn new ways to behave. He's been allowed to act like a 2 year old dictator for years. It will take time.
But it's worth it!!
You get your pride back, your children will be proud of you and eventually, your husband will come to respect you, too.
I'm sorry you are going through this.
The other option, of course, is to decide that this is plenty of ammunition that's been used against you for long enough and leave him. I'm sure you've heard that time and again. But I KNOW how hard this actually is, like many on this board who have been in your shoes.
I wish you luck and strength in your journey!!! It is a journey that's been walked before and there is light at the end.
Dandylife
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Sunny
Kids are really helped by respecting them listening to them and most of all loving them.All these things you do so well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When children are taught that their parents feelings are more important than their's that's a problem .
But children that see two loving parents have a fuss and then make up and explain to the child opps mom and dad wished they had not
got upset the child understands the truth and knows if the parents truly love each other.
so I guess I have to go with the truth and love............thats always better
oh sunny I did not understand your post he is selfish is he like that all the time??????
If he is selfish all time and you have held it in 17 years that's a long time I am sorry this is happpening.Do you think seeing a t would be good???????
moon
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(DS)))))))
I believe, from my experience as a child, that the child(ren) picks up EVERYTHING that goes on around them.
I suggest that if there is a fight between the parents, that it be explained to the child(ren) immediately afterward, so that they don't end up with a wrong BELIEF about what life is all about!
During that conversaztion, the child(ren) ought to be asked what he/she was feeling during the fight!!
A couple and their children are a family and I think that it is best that each one knows the other and the feelings.
I think that siblings ought to be told that they are the ones who will know each other best for most of their lives.
They never knew their parents before they were born, and the parents will likely die before the children.
Iz
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Hiya Sunny:
I'm sorry you're having to live through such a hell (is there any other word for it?).
One thing I was thinking while reading your description: You don't have to get angry or show anger at all in order to stand up for yourself and it might be best if you release your anger otherwise (through journalling, excercise, talking to a friend or other support person, etc). You can quietly state whatever you need to and even if your H rages, you can walk away.
Also: again.....document document document. Write every nasty thing he says or does to or around the kids down along with the kids reactions and include the date and time. It may sound silly but this can indeed be used as evidence in future. Write down the stuff he's done so far, that you remember, and keep careful track from now on. At the very least, this record might help you with your resolve.
(((((((((Sunny)))))))))
Sela
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Sunny,
I'm so sorry.
A BIG amen to what Sela said, every word. Document.
((((Sunny))))
Hops
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Sela & Hopalong,
That is pretty much what I am using this board for.
I have to keep thoughts and frustrations here because I tried journaling a couple of times, he found them, read them, and freaked out! He won't allow me to write anything, or talk to anyone. I sneak to do this.
Thanks for listening you guys!
Namaste,
Sunny
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sunny
I can imagine the pain you must be feeling .
He will not let you write he will not listen to you any complaint or anything that disagrees
with him he freaks out that is not a healthy relationship not for you or him.
Have you thought seeing a T ??????
Finding help for your pain where ever or however is not sneaking is it ??????
how would that be sneaking you have a user name and you are seeking help??
I do hope you find your answers here.
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Hi again Sunny:
I tried journaling a couple of times, he found them, read them, and freaked out! He won't allow me to write anything, or talk to anyone. I sneak to do this.
He has too much control. It's harming you and your children....living like this. Take some of the control back. Can you contact a women's shelter in your area for the support you need? They will understand and be able to help you.
Glad you can at least post here. God bless you Sunny. I'll keep you in my prayers.
Sela
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CB such an amazing post
thx
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You have ALL given me some great stuff to chew on for the weekend! Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I will be getting ready for company for the big game this Sun (USA). And I will be watched :shock: so I will check in when I can.
Thanks angels! Have a good one! (((((((((((((ALL OF YOU)))))))))))))
Namaste,
Sunny
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Just wanted to post this about journaling, read it on another board/site just now.
Relieve The Pressure Cooker
"Even though you may want to move forward in your life, you may
have one foot on the brakes. In order to be free, we must learn
how to let go. Release the hurt. Release the fear. Refuse to
entertain your old pain. The energy it takes to hang onto the
past is holding you back from a new life." -- Mary Manin
Morrissey
Journaling is a great way to release and let go. To get things
off your chest. Our minds are our own worst enemies. The same
thoughts go round and round in the same old ways and keep us
stuck.
If something bothers you, write about it. Get it out so you can
see it from a different perspective. Let it out. Let it go.
Owning and healing your pressure cooker is an important step in
claiming your power, building your esteem and making your stand.
"In truth, to attain to interior peace, one must be willing to
pass through the contrary to peace. Such is the teaching of the
Sages." -- Swami Brahmanada
www.higherawareness .com
Namaste & Peace,
Sunny
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I have recently purchased a book on 'From Woundedness to Wholeness through Writing'
All about how writing our stories is a Way of Healing.
Writing the Wounded Soul and Wounded Body.
Whilst Caring for ourselves as we Write.
For me personally, no matter where I write - whether here on the board, in my journal note book, on my computer, for me,
writing is a healing experience, from the pain, loss and grief.
Leah
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sunny,
Writing our stories talking to t's is very healing but another way to process negative feelings and problems etc is to see we are more than "our stories" more than our shadow self more than any of "it".......
I know when right in the middle of intense pain or confusion it is so hard to see this. Believe me I know it hurts bad. But after all as "mum" said we are more than our stories.
For those of you that remember mum a very wise one on this board.Remembering that we are more than our stories......lets us breathe and detach from pain.There is a point when victimhood is a place to get stuck in.
I am likely to get stuck again but each time I get "unstuck" I can see a little clearer with more kindness I have made the choice along with my dr to have no contact.
And I wish you much peace.
so much love and more
moon
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Dear Sunny,
Your story was a wonderful reminder of why I finally filed for divorce. I could so remember the confusion, covering, questioning, and walking on eggshells I did for so many years. If your ever decide you can't engage in the dance anymore you will be amazed at the peace you will find in life without a N. It is an incredibly hard decision and you will know if and when it is the right decision...even if you stay forever...knowledge is power and try to learn how not to let the craziness get to you.
GAP
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CB, Leah and all
Your words about living with an abusive man were so beautiful and right on.
Sunny you sound so caught in the middle, pulled in both diirections at once. Covering up for your spouse is not working for you or the kids. Kids know everything. Have you talked to them and clearly said that you feel like a guardian who is protecting them from the rage of their father? And how is that for them?
I don't think you are on the brink of losing it. I think you are in the terribly painful place of coming to your senses and recognizing that things can't go on the way they are. That place of LIMBO is really a tough place to be. Keep writing hear. Your story is so familiar.
I am curious.... Does your husband drink?
Sea storm
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I think the kids know what is going on but it does not mean they will talk about it. Sometimes there is a code of silence underpinning families. The bloody elephant is sitting in the middle of the room and everyone ignores it. When you and your kids have learned to be silent it takes a lot to find voice. Be patient with them but I believe acknowledging your own truth is the most profound thing you can do. It allows them to do the same if they choose.
axa
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I think the kids know what is going on but it does not mean they will talk about it. Sometimes there is a code of silence underpinning families. The bloody elephant is sitting in the middle of the room and everyone ignores it. When you and your kids have learned to be silent it takes a lot to find voice. Be patient with them but I believe acknowledging your own truth is the most profound thing you can do. It allows them to do the same if they choose.
axa
Wow ! Axa,
Profound truth there.
You know, my brother and I never ever once said a word about our Nmother and violent Nfather.
And I had never said a word to anyone about my exNh.
Kept my mouth shut all my life, including with my son.
There is a song "Silence is Golden" ..... not true.
Leah (with a voice)
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Sea storm,
My violent Nfather never drank - my exNh never drank either.
When I went on my course, I was interested to learn from the DV statistics, that it is a Myth regarding drink is the cause of DV.
I spoke up and said that mine were not drunk and amazingly all the ladies echoed the same.
It seems as though they just kind of feel and own the anger deep down inside, and rage.
Leah
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Hi Sunny,
Did you know that you can make a sort of preemptive appointment with a lawyer?
That is, you dont have to make a decision unless you are ready to, but you can always make an appointment and just go lay out the situation. Asking what you should be doing right now to protect yourself and your children, just in case.
Your situation sounds destructive enough to me that perhaps you should inform yourself of your rights, options, and best ways to protect yourself and your children.
I know it's hard to think of the future when the present feels like a prison. But there is a future. And you could make a big difference in all your lives by visualizing it. But keep your own counsel if you do...
sending support,
Hops
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Leah
What is DV
axa
Good post hops, sound advice
axa
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Axa,
DV is Domestic Violence ..... & Abuse
Leah
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Seastorm,
No he doesn't drink much at all. Some here and there. I drink more than him to cope with him though. Drinking to forget my situation worked for about a year and now, doesn't numb the pain at all. Writing does. This board helps. A lot.
You know what is weird, I was reading M. Beattie book "Co-Dependency No More" and I remember putting the book down and being a bit baffled. This was before my husband drank at all. I wondered, why, if he doesn't even drink, do I relate to this book so well. Besides the fact I am a classic co-dependent personality. His behavior is just like a drunk at times. He is proud of himself for not drinking in excess, which is probably why he doesn't. He has a lot of BPD traits and behaviors, maybe that is why it seems he is a substance abuser. If he does drink, he falls asleep-----hate to say it, but that is kinda nice. At least I get a few hours of peace.
You are right, I am coming to my senses. Sometimes I wish I could go back to oblivion. But I know I would die. I have begun a journey to which there is no going back. He either comes along or he doesn't. Probably not. And I am coming to terms with that. I am still trying to save face and trying to have some hope that there is a happy ending. Soon as I get through that denial I can move on. For now, I just think day-to-day.....HOW MUCH LONGER am I going to have to put up with this beast? I know that is a question only I can answer, but you are all so incredibly supportive!
Thanks!
Namaste,
Sunny
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Dandylife,
I took your advice this weekend--thinking of you. NH compalined his dinner I just put in front of him was cold. He wanted me to jump back up from my dinner and re-heat it for him. Like I would usually do even if he looked at it in a certain way, I knew what to do. He had me running in circles being his "right arm".
Well, I didn't go heat his food for him. I just continued to eat my meal. He ended up asking one of my daughters to do it. This I am not crazy about, cuz he is starting to learn they will jump when he snaps his fingers, and they are old enough to replace me with waiting on him and doting on him. Yeckkkk. Don't know what to do there.
He was mad, so then he tries to tell me I should heat mine up too! I just continued to eat cause it was just fine. Then he was fit-to-be-tied, but he got over it after about 15 minutes. I just ignored him and talked to the kids until he came around. But the tension was almost unbearable. Got through it though. Now...the trick is to keep it up!
Thanks for the advice. For some reason that analogy worked for me and I am making baby step changes.
Namaste,
Sunny
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((((((((((((((GAP, Leah, axa, Hop, and Moonlight)))))))))))))))
GROUP HUG!! Thanks you guys! Your words of validation, advice, and encouragement are priceless! One day I honestly hope to be able to help someone through this like you do.
You are in my thoughts more than you know.
Thanks,
Sunny
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Sunny,
Well Done You !!! :)
Those baby steps will get bigger and stronger each day - just know it.
Warm thoughts and a hug,
Leah
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And now my dear CB,
Wow---your post moved me. I have been thinking about it this weekend a lot. First, it was a bit embarrassing to have my words about my fights with H posted back to me. I just hate that part of myself who was capable of that----- it is so against anything I am. But now I know a name for it. The gaslighting is SOOOO obvious in each situation. But this was necessary to help me come to a better resolve to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Your advice in each situation is golden. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. I am ashamed, but a little proud of standing up to him. At one point when he ws shoving me around, he was throwing me on our bed and I found myself just popping back up again and again. Felt like about 15 times until, after I went to kick him from getting on top of me and decided not to go that far, I got back up again, went toe-to-toe with him and told him he could NOT do that to me anymore. I would not allow him to back me into a corner again. ETC. My oldest saw that. I hate it and yet, I feel she saw something she needed to see. She came to tell me to stop fighting him because she knew I was in danger if I didn't give in. He didn't even realize she was in the room, I just calmly turned to her after being pushed down and told her it was ok, I was going to be fine, and would she please see to the others for right now? This is where his empathy mask is really evident. He would usually pretend to care ever so much about her, but in his rages, he can't think about anything but himself. This is the true person.
A couple of thoughts,
Each of these last 4-5 episodes in the lasts year or so were the direct result of assertivness. I start out assertive, he can't handle it, rages, and then I fight back. I have been shot down each time I tried in these situations because I didn't do the day-to-day preventive assertivness, let the resentment build. Got too emotional about it and then it was ugly. It is hard to be what I think is "bitchy" on a day-to-day basis. It is against my nature, but I realize it is a matter of survival now.
I ask him once to stop his porn addiction a few years back. I wasn't angry, I was assertive. I told him I wanted a divorce. He begged and cried. And pretended to be suicidal, so I stayed.
I ask him to stop raging at us after he gets business calls and calls from his FOO and mother. He pouted and tried to leave.
He always tries to leave. It is so mean to the kids.
We fought once last year because I told him I could not stay up all night with him and then be expected to get the kids out for school by myself without some craziness in the morning. I just wanted some sleep. This has been going on for YEARS. He gets mad, and leaves for work without talking. I figure, enough is enough and text him to please come get his things later that night and please don't make a scene. It was over. He is with his mom so I think maybe she will help calm him down. Nope. He races home from 10 miles away, busts through the door and proceeds to rage at me calling me all kinds of things which now he claims he can't remember because he was provoked. Among those names were crazy, irrational, delusional, lazy, rotten, stupid, a baby, crazy, crazy, crazy ETC. Pretty much anything he could think of the put me down. None of which are true. But he had me wondering. Actually had to ask my T to verify. He said no you're just dealing with an N basically.
Then a few weeks later, after deciding he thought I was in love with someone from my past (20 years ago--long story) he out-of-the-blue tells me he wants a divorce cause I am being too NICE!!! He just doesn't know when I am going to get mad at him again. He does nothing wrong. This is always his defense. I didn't DO anything! Whatever.
I just don't know which way to turn sometimes. Okay ALL THE TIME.
A couple of times, I am just blue (maybe a little PMS), and he pounces, gaslights, and then I am yelling.
It seems passive is the ONLY way and also I know that can not be anymore. I am SO frustrated!
I know I had a conclusion here, but my mind has gone blank. I think the monster is stirring, about to wake. And it is freaking me out a bit. I have been up all night with my 2 year old with a fever, who is now finally sleeping. At least I didn't have to sleep next to that energy draining vampire tonight. (NH) Anyway, I'd better check out for a bit today. I don't wanna get caught and have this one last solace ripped away from my like everything else that gives me relief. He won't allow me to write or talk to anyone. So this is it.
I'll be in again, when I can. Thanks though. You are helping me process this crap.
I hope you are getting some rest and that that mediation is coming through the pipeline this week. Take care!
((((((((((((CB))))))))))))))
Namaste,
Sunny
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Thanks Leah!!!!
(((((Leah))))))
I needed that this morning!
Hugs & Kisses,
Sunny
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Sunny,
Just read your last post, which CB has followed up, and posted wisdom and advice.
Concerned.
Leah
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Sunny
Your post has shocked me. I am very concerned about you. It sounds to me like you are in a dangerous and crazy situation. I know how you can get used to abuse so that it is something you think you can manage. This is very over the top behaviour Sunny. How much longer can you and the kids afford to take this behaviour. As for his suicide threat and tears etc............ bullshit. Take care of your kids they do not need to witness this behaviour.
please consider your position.
axa
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Hi Sunny:
Did I read back a page or two, that you have a T? If so, I'm very glad of that! Is he aware that you go to the therapist? How does he react to that?
Which is better?
For you? For the kids?
Staying with a husband/father who rages, tries to control, abuses, etc?
Or going where there is no such person, where there is peace, freedom, respect, caring, etc..?
Staying in an environment in which you/they feel uncomfortable, unhappy, unsafe etc...?
Or moving to a new environment where you all feel more comfortable, happier, safer etc.?
Hoping for him to miraculously change?
Or accepting that the change is up to you and that you can make a miracle happen, if you decide to?
(that miracle being......a better life for you and your children).
(((((((((((Sunny)))))))))))
These aren't questions for you to answer to me. Just for you to think about. Is it scary to imagine leaving? Or is it scarier.....to imagine staying? (edit: Do you imagine his behaviour getting better or worse over time?).
Sela
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N rage usually this is triggered by unintentional actions of others.
n rage is reaction to criticism or disagreement to perceived offense or injury.
I believe Sela it was your father that was controlling and abusive????
a person can survive abuse and understand what is healthy and what is not.
everyone has the right to choose for themselves...
It takes a lot of reading and but change can happen ..
best wishes
m
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I KNOW this is abuse! It is embarrassing. I have only pushed him to the point of shoving one other time. Usually he has backed me into a corner and then I shove him back for some space and he says ooooww, I hurt HIM. ha ha ha
The problem is, he can't even handle 1 hour with the kids. He tried yesterday, took them to grandma's for an hour and ended up yelling at all of them for not being good enough. They are really sweet kids. They don't deserve that and I wasn't there to protect them. THAT is why I am still here. I can't imagine a whole weekend for them with him. Or worse, what if he gets custody by some weird turn of events. That is what I am trying to wrap my brain around right now.
I am embarrassed to tell what I have told and still be here, and yes I usually would fade away once people in a group know what is going on, but I know I can't do that. I am just delayed in writing sometimes because he is monitoring me. Thinks I am finding a boyfriend online or something. Like I even want to get into another mess---EVER!
This marriage was arranged anyway by our parents and our unique culture basically, and I am coping with the reallization and reality that I probably never really loved him in that way anyway. I care about him as a fellow human and I try to have compassion cause he had a rough life before we met. But according to him, he has detested his life since 1987 anyway, which was when we got together in high school. Hmmmmm....that must mean I ruined your life.....reading betwen his manipulative lines.
More later. Thanks for hearing me everyone.
Sunny
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HI DS
I was not thinking in terms of a husband wife
I was thinking in terms of a parent and child
That was the dynamic I experienced not a SO or husband wife situation .
Really different
in the light
moon
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Hiya Sunny:
I have only pushed him to the point of shoving....
Not an excuse for his behaviour. People aggravate, irritate, frustrate, insult, belittle, etc. etc. other people all the time. Some people CHOOSE to respond by shoving (some by worse actions and some by walking away). They are not driven, they choose how to act.
I don't blame you to be worried about him getting visitation and/or custody. That's why it's detrimental that you document, document,document. Also, are you seeing a T? Is this person helping you? Again....the women's shelter? They know about these things and might be able to help you protect your children and will have other means of help available.
Please do not feel ashamed. His behaviour belongs to him. You are surviving. Lot's of people would have feelings fear, confusion, hoping for a miracle, etc in your situation or waver back and forth, trying to decide what to do. It's not easy.
Here's a link with good advice (I think it was designed for women with disabilities but it makes sense for anyone in an abusive situation):
http://www.geocities.com/finexhouse/escape.html
((((((((((Sunny))))))))
Sela
PS: Yes, Moon, my father was controlling and violent.
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Hi Sunny,
I'm so sorry to hear all the horror you are going through.
But, please try not to feel embarrased or ashamed. Yes, I also felt embarrased and ashamed when I realized the abuse, but then I felt stronger and clearer for recognizing the abuse.
By recognizing the abuse, you are giving up your denial of the abuse and that is MAJOR!! So, CONGRATULATIONS!! You, like me and many of us here, have a long way to go to recover our "true selves" and to make our lives happy and fulfilling, but every long journey begins with the first step. You have taken that first step by recognizing the abuse.
I completely agree with Sela, particularly what Sela said about "I have only pushed him to the point of shoving one other time." I have recently learned this lesson too, but, here's the deal: You, Sunny, DO NOT choose your husband's behavior or his thoughts, no matter what you do. HE CHOOSES HIS OWN BEHAVIOR AND THOUGHTS. I emphasize this because it's a very important point to understand for people who are abused. If he shoves you or yells at you, HE has chosen that behavior; You HAVE NOT forced him to choose that behavior.
On the other hand, in order to protect yourself and your kids, if you feel he's going to verbally or physically abuse you (like shove you), then remove yourself from the situation, like leave the room or leave the house.
Here is a web site that gives excellent examples of what abuse is: http://drirene.com/contents.htm
I think one of the big questions is whether your husband can be reformed and give up his abusive ways. That may be a difficult question to answer.
I also think CB is right: It's time to start planning for the future: If you were to leave him, you need to support your kids and yourself. Think contacting a women's shelter is an excellent idea.
Sunny, you're on the right track: You know something is wrong with your relationship with your H and you want to change it. That's a big step in the right direction.
love,
dazed
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Hey all,
Thanks!
I am feverishly and secretly reading and writing and will be posting responses when I can. Thanks for the links and advice. I will be back ASAP.
Sunny
gotta go....
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Many thoughts are coming your way, Sunny. You have been much on my mind.
CB
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Sunny,
Women's shelter
Women's support groups
Women's networking
Women counseling
I think you'll find a community of sisters, here and out there, who would be so eager to help you extricate yourself.
Please know that this hope is real. As real as the abuse you've lived with.
Hops
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I have to break this stuff up between running errands and dong my "chores" so he doesn't clue in that I am online during my son's nap time. I am now just needing to vent because it seems starting to tell a little opens the flood gates in my mind and I get overwhelmed with memories of the constant daily abuse. I feel silly for having just one time I stand up to him as I wrote here a few posts back. And speaking of flood gates, I am reminded of a song that says:
It's a silly time to learn to swim when you start to drown...
It's a silly time to learn to swim on the way down.....
Sela and all, Yes I WENT to a therapist, because a year ago, I found myself in turmoil with my FOO, my "religion"---which in my vicinity is also all my neighbors, and with my NH. I was totally wanting to know what was wrong with ME to find myself in this position with so many people after being called a peacemaker all my life.
My T was a help, verified I was dealing with an N H, and I had married my N mother. And I needed to stand up for myself. Since my insurance didn't pay any of it, I soon found we couldn't afford it. Hmmmm....maybe husband saw my 'stupid days' were coming to an end and cut off my supply of validation and support?? So I stopped going. Then listened to him chastise me for it.
I had to choose this certain T because it was a guy that NH went to about 8 years before to deal with his father's pending death and he was one of the few people NH actually praised. (Since almost everyone on earth is a total idiot, in his book) I could choose no other, especially not a woman, because then he would say, What is that quack (woman) filling your head with? Doesn't like me to watch Oprah for the same reason. Or watch any woman on TV stand up for herself, he is sure to tell me what fat bit** SHE is, cause he knows he keeps me in check that way.
Anyway, I went under the guise of talking to him about my FOO and the NC situation I went into with them recently. Which he also chastised me for (NC). I really talked about him. He keeps me so uptight I have no time or energy to deal with FOO situations even if I want to. My T nailed it in the first session. "You married your mom"---I pulled this out of the holster during our last argument on New Years to seeif he even cared or understood. Just made him mad and defensive of course. Then he claimed the T was always wrong when he went anyway. So therefore, of course he was wrong about that too. This is the first time he ever has spoken poorly of T in 8 years---when he finds he is exposed. Before I stopped, T verified his NPD, said to stay was going to be really hard (not news) and that most of what he did to control me was bullsh**! I know what I must do, I am just trying to have a few good times, which never seem to come.
I promised myself when I spent my tenth anniversay in his soon-to-be repossessed sports car getting raged at because...well, just because he was having a bad day and I didn't want to try on the shirt he insisted on getting me because he hadn't bothered to do anything else for me. I didn't want the shoes or shirt he insisted on but when along but not "cutsie" enough for him so he raged. He expects me to be a wind-up doll who smiles and performs on command. He just blamed his rage on his stupid financial situation. I say his financial situation because he invested tons of borrowed cash into a stupid scheme which I never approved of and lost it all. We were dealing with the FBI to try to get it back. Actually had our phones tapped to nail the guy. Got regular phone calls and visits from the FBI. It was loads of fun.
We have faced foreclosure about every 6 months, in every house we lived since 1994. And I am talking up to the day before sale, usually. This is all a result of his inability to work. He convinced me a few years back to sign my name on a loan on property his mother lived in to save her home for her. I did--I was basically forced. I tried to leave with the kids then, but came back when I realized if I had to choose between the 2 monsters of him or N mom. I guess I had to choose him, so my kids could be in their own home. He told me I had no right to do that to them. Take them to my mothers. I have had to stare foreclosure in the face every 6 months with that property too. Every time I ended up on the phone, being humiliated and lying to beg for more time or whatever while he stood over me, insisting I do. Normally, I can't lie to save my life. I told him once I couldn't do it again. He went suicidal on me until I areed to call the mortgage co and make arrangments one more time. My credit ended up in the toilet. He finally refinanced it under someone else's name a few months ago and bought his momma a NEW house. Both of which he still pays for each month.
These payments he makes while our home is in jeopardy. And the kids go without. I am at home jumping and getting sick to my stomach every time the door bell rings because it is usually only someone looking for a bill to be paid, the mailman with registered letters, constables, his "investors. I handle them and then he gets angry if I let him know it bothers me. I stoped answering the phone years ago because creditors would call all day. ALL of this mess is due to his screw-ups, selfishness, pride, and his FOO. He won't stay away from them, he just chastises me for having to make the decision to go no contact with my FOO.
If I leave to go to the grocery store, I hurry home if he is there. I even had to make sure the older ones could watch the young ones when I went to therapy so I didn't have to worry about coming home to rages then. Or worrying that the kids will try to answer the door or phone to someone looking for payment of something. And then he chastises me for not answering the phone or door or not allowing him to help with the kids.
I am home with the kids because is too nutty to be at home with them. So that ties my hands from working because I have to stay to protect them from him. Then he is sure to tell me I don't help him at work. Or if I find a babysitter, well, then the house isn't clean enough and the meals aren't done right any more. And when he IS home, he expects me to be at his side to love him or be yelled at and whined too, what ever he is in the mood for. And yet, somehow, I am supposed to be able to do the housework while I hold his hand. Cause then he rages or pouts f he can't get a clean plate for a snack or something.
I am so sorry you guys, this is making me sick to write this. I have told a few people a bit of this over the years and they have no idea what to say. Maybe they think I am lying. One thing is for sure. It is way to much to handle even hearing for most. I am going for it here when I can just to get it out. It is bopping around in my head too much now. I feel if I don't get some of this nonsense in writing, I will end up yelling at him again. He will see I am upset and go for the jugular. Ya'll don't really have to read it or respond. I don't expect that. I just need to get it out.
Oh, and incidentally. He came home for lunch today as I was about ready to post this. He called me to tell me he was coming and I could just hear the beep beep beep of the backing up dump truck. He was headed home to dump on me. Well,when he arrived, for once he was the one to answer the door the mortgage default papers. I usually get that. It doesn't even shake me any more. But he was shook. He finally felt how it was to be mortified in front of the mailman while you sign for a bunch of certified mail telling you they were starting the foreclosure process on your house---again. Sick thing is, I am used to it. He then commenced to dump his whole day onto my shoulders again and then left after I consoled him. What a dork. I've got more, crap I wrote out, but maybe that is all I will copy and paste for now. He will scrounge up the money for the house just in time, as usual. I just can't figure out why he doesn't just work for it in the first place and avoid this nonsense.
Mostly this stuff is to remind ME of what an idiot he is. If I don't write it out as I try to recall it, I tuck it away and continue to pretend it never happened. He is a total N jerk and I still feel bad for him and guilty for posting and especially freaked out at getting caught. I can't even go on another computer in the home when he is here unless he is sleeping because he has progams on them to be able to see what is going on on each screen from another screeen in the house. Oh, and when he sleeps, if I move...he grunts to let me now he is still watching me and aware I am moving around or getting up. I know I don't need to convince you guys of this abuse, I just need to see it in black and white.
over and out....hope this makes any sense
Sunny
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Sunny,
I think you need to put aside your embarrassment and everything else and put your kids first at this point. Do you want them to think this is a normal environment?Do you want them to be here, where we are, trying to piece their lives back together after being through hell trying to find themselves? That is where they are headed by living in a home like this. I know you are unhappy and I think you ought to be very frightened. I think it is time to put the children first. I also think you should not leave them alone with him ever. You can do this and there are amny who will help you.Please leave before further damage is done.
Love,
Beth
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I'm not EVEn done, and this is just mostly the recent and worst stuff that has been rolling around in my head the past few days. Fire away, you guys, I need to hear how pathetic this really is. For some reason I have been wondering if I am over-reacting.
I will type while I can. Sorry this might be long.
So, at my 10 years anniversary, I promised myself to stay no longer than 3 years. I lost any baby weight I had. Looked better than high school, and of course I had to fight him to even eat different than him or exercise. He threw every thing in my way he could think of. But I somehow had the strength to resist and do it anyway and he was mad. And then...I didn't take the kids and leave. I let myself down. Not only that, I got pregnant again. Yep, stupid. But this kid was meant to be here. Don't know why and I don't resent him at all. I actually was in the hospital after almost losing him to placenta abruptia (sp?) and my daughter happened to be scheduled for surgery the same morning 2 hours after I ended up delivering. We were afraid a growth on her finger might be cancerous (wasn't, thank God) and so we went ahead with it. We had it scheculed for 6 weeks and didn't want to wait 6 weeks again. So...my baby is in ICU after almost losing him. I have finally stopped hemorrhaging, and my NH and his N Mother go to get something to eat while they wait for my 12 year old to get out of surgery. Well, they can't find him anywhere when she comes out of it, so they call my room (we are in the same hospital) and I have to convince the nurse to wheel me down to be there when my daughter wakes up. My legs are still numb. I get there just as NH and N MIL come wandering in. And guess who he is mad at ---ME. For going to be by her side when he couldn't be found. I still haven't even seen my baby since they wisked him out to clear his lungs after delivery.
Then, after leaving me at the hospital alone most of the time, while his mom messed up our house trying to "help", he tells me I am being a baby and can't I just handle my son's circumcision alone the next morning? I simply told him what time it would be. He insisted on being there for our older boys' so this is shocking. But I don't say anything. He realizes he has done something--although he can't imagine what--and stays for a few minutes to backpeddle. While his sisters who came to visit stay outside and wait with all the kids and are left to wonder I am sure what MY problem was. Then calls me after he gets home at 1 am to chat. Maybe I want to sleep--ya know. I was embarrassed. The nurses were all dumbfounded, I am sure, by the way he was. I cried and tried to hide my tears while I paced the floor to get in to see my baby all night. I told myself then, I was getting out I could not believe I had another baby with this guy. Turns out, as usual, he ws stressed out from his business, the kids were driving him crazy, and he just didn't have time for me to fall apart too. I should just get a recording of that statement. It is all I ever hear.
And yet, I am still here. My baby is 2.5 now. My oldest is almost 15 (within weeks). I have no FOO to turn to. And I am sure he will use this against me to try and prove I am a total crazy bit**!! He always tells me that--in a "nice" way. "You just don't understand what you are doing to me and the kids by not talking to your FOO!" Since when was THAT about HIM??? He makes everything about him. I don't even bother to talk to him about it anymore. Why bother. He doesn't hear a word I say anyway. He will just start talking when I am talking about ANYTHING, or ignore me, or just not "remember" anything I have said about anything.
Sunny---trying to hurry and edit, copy, and paste while I have a minute alone.
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Sunny,
I'm going to go out on a limb and ask: what situation in your life do you need to complete? Did someone hurt, abuse or molest you as a child? (answer to yourself) In what situation(s) did you feel voiceless? What, now that you are grown, would you have done back then to make the situation better for yourself? What resources could you have called upon to protect yourself? What resources would your adult self hand over to your child self in order to cope? Now answer those questions for your situation today (to yourself).
With your husband, you behave as if you are voiceless. And not only that, decisionless. Did you know that you have the POWER as a human being to have the basic human rights every person in the world has? Do you know your basic human rights? I ask because until recently I didn't know.
Here is Article 19 from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 19.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Your husband has NO RIGHT to interfere with your reading, learning, writing or speaking in ANY way.
Please see the complete declaration here: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
It really helped me in standing up to others (assertively, not aggressively, there is a difference).
Please Sunny, always remember you do have a choice. Your life would be hard if you left him (hard work, tough schedule, see your kids less because you'd be working), but you'd be in control. What could be worse on a daily basis than what you've described to us? Especially since you say that him working and money coming in is a problem. Someone's got to work and you sound very intelligent and bright - very very articulate and understanding. Who knows? You might even find work that you fall in love with!
And remember behavior that begets the same behavior will go on and on and on in an insane circle until someone pulls a chair out and there's 1 less there and someone falls in the floor. Let's hope that someone is your N. You can best control that by being the one in control.
Keep learning. You don't have to leap until you're ready. In fact you don't ever have to leap as long as you decide that's what you WANT to do. Maybe staying gives you benefits that override your need for serenity. Only you can say.
I urge you to pick up and leave, though, at the first sign of physical abuse. That is the one time it is worth getting out with the clothes on your back and working up from there. You will find the help you need, it's out there.
You don't need to reply - I just hope that you are okay and that some of these words can be a balm, a spark, or a calm hand as needed.
Now that your eyes are open to the reality of your situation, you are stepping forward and won't want to go backward again. May strength rain down......
Dandylife
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I once told him how stupid I feel cause I put on weight and he probably doesn't want to hear me and thinks I am being ridiculous--which he does---and HE is offended cause "I accused him of not caring" and he is going to prove how much he cares by yelling at me for it. Then threatening to leave. Hmmm....
He goes from telling me how much he cares and how great he thinks I am and I am the nicest person he knows and thanks for always understanding and being there for him and........all that.
To.....yelling at me he is sick of me, he can't stand me anymore, I am driving him crazy, he puts up with more than he should from me, he wants this over!!!! This is ALL MY FAULT--he says. I DID THIS!!!---he says. Then makes a scene and storms out, slamming doors and screeching his tires and sending the kids into terror and confusion. After all, I (we) don't want him there anyway.--he says. Tells me I do all sorts of stuff to make him mad and upset, but he "won't tell me right now what that is" I plead for some help to try and not upset him and HE JUST won't say. Says I can't take it. Bal-oney!
One of his last ones was when he made 3 out of 4 duaghters cry in one night be being a insensitive demanding jackas*, and then came to complain to me about them. I didn't sympathize, so he freaked and stormed out, letting out his favorite dog to run the streets because he is in such a rage he doesn't care about the dog all of a sudden. He is always accusing me of not caring about the dog. Which is NOT true. I even got a dog last year and he freaked out every night about it and yelled at me or one of the kids about the dog doing this or that until I had to find it a new home just to save some peace. But the dog loved him cause he would babytalk to it and then yell at us about anything it did or didn't do. Twisted.
Then there's the suicide threats. Sometimes he will sleep down stairs and then chastise me for not coming to get him during the night. Sometimes I do. Usually I do, just to get it over with to ease the tension in the house.
???????
If he is angry and I leave the room. He follows me, asking what is wrong with ME? What is my problem? He has done nothing! I am too sensitive and unreasonable. I usually just bite my lip and agree---he did nothing, of course.
The last two birthdays of mine. They are usually disappointing enough I don't remember---- but I remember these. First one back, he ignored me. Didn't even remember all day or call, then came home and raged, yelled at the kids for having fun and making my cake for me. And then stormed off to bed. I ended up consoling him. The last one, he took me to dinner at his choice of restaurant, and then told me don't worry about my body issues, he would find a way to get plastic surgery that year to fix the mess the babies made. I didn't even bring it up, he did. Thought he was being really heroic letting me know that.
I ask him a few years back to please pay attention to the kids. Because I basically raised them alone to that point. Now he loves to talk to them. They area good source of N supply. He talks about himself to them. Or makes sure he is the center of attention. And uses them to fetch everything in the house for him while he sits like a king.
I also think he has a renewed sudden interest to try to get them on his "side" to prepare for a pending divorce. Or leaving me. I know he is.
I tell him I remember being sexually abused as a kid I just can't remember who did it. I have blocked that out. I tell him my N mother used religion to guilt me so bad about sex that I am basically frigid because of it. I tell him the meds he wants me to take make me care even less. He doesn't care. Just expects to wind me up and I will perform for him. I do it just to get it over with.
Can't go to grocery store without getting sick to my stomach and hurrying home. Concerned with money spent and getting home before he blows his top. I don't give him anything to complain about. I don't spend any extra money, talk to friends, I keep the house clean. I don't nag or cheat, I try to look good. I exercise. I cook his favorite foods. When he wants them. Which sometimes he will send back because it isn't good enough. We do everything in the house HIS way. I always agree with him, I don't dare show how I really feel about ANYTHING.
Always makes me wait for him for hours sometimes. Wait, wait, wait. It is all I do when we need to go somewhere. I get everyone else ready and he just sits until he is good and ready.
He once told me he would do his own laundry and food cause he knew I hated it and -------- then didn't. Of course. I don't do anything good enough for him anyway.
He uses sickness now to gain my sympathy. Constantly in pain. This or that. I stay up during the night and nurse him. He is always sicker than me or anyone in the house.
If I say anything about ANYTHING, then I am the crazy, delusional, overly sensitive, PMSing, didn't take her meds today, bit**!! I won't take the meds he pushed me to get. I did for a bit, but they made me too docile IMO. I can't stand docile any more!
Can't stand any of this either!
Sunny---getting it OUT finally!
OK DONE. Thanks for letting me rant.
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Your BILL OF RIGHTS
· You have the right to be you.
· You have the right to put yourself first.
· You have the right to be safe.
· You have the right to love and be loved.
· You have the right to be treated with respect.
· You have the right to be human - NOT PERFECT.
· You have the right to be angry and protest if you are treated unfairly or abusively by anyone.
· You have the right to your own privacy.
· You have the right to your own opinions, to express them, and to be taken seriously.
· You have the right to earn and control your own money.
· You have the right to ask questions about anything that affects your life.
· You have the right to make decisions that affect you.
· You have the right to grow and change (and that includes changing your mind).
· You have the right to say NO.
· You have the right to make mistakes.
· You have the right NOT to be responsible for other adults’ problems.
· You have the right not to be liked by everyone.
· YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL YOUR OWN LIFE AND TO CHANGE IT IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH IT AS IT IS.
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Beautiful, Sunny. You're getting it all out there and seeing it yourself just the way it looks to an outsider. Seeing and believing. You're figuring it out too. It's all about the N and always will be. You and the kids deserve better.
Pennyplant
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Probably the most important thing I forgot to mention and I want you all to know I realize, is that I LET HIM GET AWAY WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!
It is all I knew. But I can't use that excuse any more. I see that.
Sunny
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Sunny,
I forgot to give you a hug.
I really, really hope you will be ready to get away from all this soon.
((((((((((((((((((Sunny)))))))))))))
Love, Beth
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Hmmm....
Not afraid of working, worked full-time through my first two back-to-back pregnancies. I was the only one pulling in an income. I made the mistake of trusting him and quitting my great job 13 years ago to come home and be a full-time mom. Didn't matter though, I did full-time at home even when I worked all day anyway. He was useless. It's been all down hill from there.
Not really worried about getting the job issue taken care of if needed. I have a Real Estate license as well, which I can use when I need it. That will be good to set my own hours.
:)That is a plus, right?
Rhetorical question...Just thinking aloud here.
Sunny
Thanks for the support EVERYONE!! :D :D :D :D
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I found this just now on the site drirene.com that Dazed1 recommended. Love it. Been reading and printing stuff to read later. Just found Sam V's stuff there and thought this was very relevant to my situation right now: Hopefully it helps someone else out too.
Moving On
To preserve one's mental health - one must abandon the narcissist. One must move on. Moving on is a process, not a decision or an event. First, we have to acknowledge and accept reality. It is a volcanic, shattering, agonizing series of little, nibbling, thoughts and strong, voluptuous resistances. The battle won, harsh and painful realities assimilated, we can move on to the learning phase.
We label. We assemble material. We gather knowledge. We compare experiences. We digest. We have insights. Then we decide and we act. This is "to move on". Having gathered sufficient emotional sustenance, support and confidence - we leave to face the battlefields of our relationships, fortified and nurtured. This stage characterizes those who do not mourn - but fight; do not grieve - but replenish their self esteem; do not hide - but seek; do not freeze - but move on.
Sam V.
Ciao, again,
Namaste,
Sunny
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Sunny
SAM v is a narcissist and a lot can be learned from him and his arrogance
I believe choosing healthy relationships is a choice and a process
How can even a toxic relationship not be mourned unless you are a n?????
I sure did like what jac said about not giving n's a chance to hurt her and would not be hurt no matter what they did.....
still bully's lie cheat mock and are cold as ice you are so much better without this kind of behavior
why should you live with this kind of deliberate cruelty.
Blessings to you
you are strong and so very very honest
moon
Quote from Sunny Quoting mr v
We label. We assemble material. We gather knowledge.
We compare experiences. We digest.
We have insights. Then we decide and we act.
This is "to move on".
Having gathered sufficient emotional sustenance, support and confidence -
we leave to face the battlefields of our relationships, fortified and nurtured.
This stage characterizes those who do not mourn - but fight; do not grieve -
but replenish their self esteem; do not hide - but seek; do not freeze - but move on.
Sam V.
Sunny
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Dear Sunny,
You are me three and a half years ago. 4 kids, 20 years of abuse, 3 years free. It is hard for me to read your about your pain, it brings back so many horrible memories. Facing the reality of your life, speaking the truth, facing your part in the dance of abuse, figuring out how to get back on track after letting a the abuser dictate so many aspects of your life, trying to get the friends that have never been in this situation understand how you stayed or ever let it get so bad, dealing with the aftermath with the kids, second guessing yourself, slipping back into the fantasy of what your thought your life was or would be. It is a long painful processes. Think of it like this, which diagnosis would you like from your doctor: chronic pain for the rest of your life no matter what you did or severe pain following surgery that would eventually lead to a full recovery and pain free life. Life with your husband will remain consistently painful and bad, life without your husband will be very painfully initially but your life will improve.
Keep up the good work. Keep doing what your doing: write, read, take care of yourself. I found Malignent Self Love to be a huge help, it allowed me to understand my life with my husband, stop second guessing myself and realize it was never going to get better. Hopefulness can be a negative thing when your apply it to a hopeless situation.
All the best, you are in my thoughts,
GAP
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Hopefulness can be a negative thing when your apply it to a hopeless situation.
The beginning of the recovery process is when you become conscious of the fact that you have been abused by a Narcissist and come to the realization that you do not deserve to be abused.
The next step is to let go of your compulsive endeavours to 'cure' the Narcissist, and give up your hope that your parent or partner will be miraculously changed into the loving, empathic and caring person that you want him or her to be. You have most likely been trying to bring about this dream for a long long time, and it is not easy to come to the point of letting it go. The golden rule is that if what you have been doing hasn't achieved your goal you need to stop doing it... that is logical and sensible.
Thinking of you ((( Sunny ))) knowing it isn't easy.
Your are in my thoughts and prayers,
Leah xx
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I have had to come to terms that I should have left years earlier, as I lived a life of hopelessness in my lifelong marriage, with no compassion from my husband. Never protected.
Love without Compassion is Possessive, Controlling, and Dangerous
Compassion is the most important emotion in intimate relationships. It contributes far more to happiness than love does.
Relationships can be happy with low levels of love and high levels of compassion, but not the other way around.
Why is compassion so necessary for love relationships?
For one thing, it sensitizes you to the individuality and vulnerability of your loved ones. It makes you see that your partner is a different person from you, with a separate set of experiences, a different temperament, different vulnerabilities, and, in some respects, different values.
In contrast, if you feel the intensity of love without compassion, you cannot see the person your partner truly is. You partner becomes merely a source of emotion for you, rather than a separate person in his/her own right. When your partner makes you feel good, he/she is on a pedestal. When he/she makes you feel bad, your partner becomes a demon.
Love without compassion is possessive, controlling, rejecting, and dangerous.
Compassion, on the other hand, makes you protective, rather than controlling. The difference is crucial.
You have a right to feel protected - not hurt.
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Brilliant insights on compassion. I think empathy or respect along with love would go along way to building a strong relationship. Narcissist are not capable of either.
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Hiya Sunny:
Thanks for talking about your experience with the T. I'm glad he helped you and sorry you don't have him to support you now. I really hope you will contact a women's shelter, as there are definately people there who will offer you, at the very least, some real life support. You don't have to do this alone.
Good for you for posting all you have and for getting all of that out! It's so much better out than in eh? Keep going if you want/need to and it helps!!
....I LET HIM GET AWAY WITH ALL OF IT!!!!!
It is all I knew. But I can't use that excuse any more. I see that.
That's one way of looking at it (very popular too, I think).
Another might be:
People change. That was then. This is now. You are changing, have changed and will keep changing. For the purposes of not beating yourself up, at a time when you most need all of the stamina you can muster, you can choose to see the past as an experience that didn't turn out the way you expected/wanted/anticipated, which you are taking steps to change/improve.....for the betterment of yourself and your children. In a way, maybe Sam is right to suggest leaving the grieving, blaming, learning, whatnot....mostly for later. Right now, it's good that you recognize that you need to choose to act, rather than simply tolerate further abuse. That might help you to keep taking those small steps.
But thinking of yourself as an excuse maker, may not help. How about as a survivor who is planning escape? Brave, strong, keen and yes....compassionate (toward your children and yes, yourself too)???
Sela
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Hi--I'd just like to share a book for those more inclined to draw than write!! It's called "Art a Way of Knowing"--a guide to self knowledge and spiritual fulfillment through creativity. Here are the stats:
Publisher's Note
With practical exercises, inspirational guidance and the author's own experiences as an artist and art therapist, this book shows how creativity can be a path to self dicovery. Allen includes information on materials and methods, plus ideas for projects using art to help express emotions.
Industry reviews
"Though she is quick to share the joy that comes from creative self-expression, Allen is also willing to reveal the turbulence and struggle inherent in the process."
Reasoner
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Hi--I'd just like to share a book for those more inclined to draw than write!! It's called "Art a Way of Knowing"--a guide to self knowledge and spiritual fulfillment through creativity. Here are the stats:
Publisher's Note
With practical exercises, inspirational guidance and the author's own experiences as an artist and art therapist, this book shows how creativity can be a path to self dicovery. Allen includes information on materials and methods, plus ideas for projects using art to help express emotions.
Industry reviews
"Though she is quick to share the joy that comes from creative self-expression, Allen is also willing to reveal the turbulence and struggle inherent in the process."
Reasoner
Wow! Thanks for posting this Birdy750
Been sitting here looking at a book I picked up recently at a book stall (can't resist them!) wondering why on earth I bought as I can't even draw a cat! It's an intro to watercolour painting - pretty book!
Maybe I should have a dabble after all then :)
Take care,
Leah
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Birdy,
Me too, I have recently been toying with the idea of using some of my artistic side to help me cope and release anger and what-not. I wasn't ever great or anything, but I loved drawing, pottery, watercolors, flowers arrangments, even jewelry design using stones known in the mystical world for healing, protection and temperment aides. Haven't done the latter, but I wear some of said jewelry I got elsewhere and I LOVE the idea.
Good suggestion! It is an aspect of me I let go long ago, I think because I had to be so "in the game" with my left brain to cope with the N's in my life, that I almost let that interest die along with many other things I almost have let "die".
Sounds like another book I need to check out.
Namaste,
Sunny
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Hi Sunny,
Just wanted to tell you how eccentric I'm becoming in my room, here...
Was thinking about the board this morning and when I passed a mirror I clasped my hands and bowed to myself, saying Namaste. (That's not my custom when I look in the mirror!) Before I got self-conscious and laughed at myself, there was a second when it felt really good. Like a kind greeting, a blessing.
Thanks for helping that surface.
Hops
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Do kids learn more by seeing me stand up for my rights or are they wounded more by hearing a fight or breakdown now and then?
Do they learn from a quiet, peaceful, orderly home or are they wounded by my silence and obedience and complacency in the midst of the covert N abuse that we suffer.
Hey Sunny,
I haven't read how this thread developed - just your initial post - but I'd like to chime in anyway if that's ok. As an adult child of an N dad, may I just chip in that I think - as Dr Phil puts it - that "peace at any price" is no peace at all.
I'd agree that children should be spared from seeing emotionally abusive, unfair fighting, cruelty, or god forbid physical abuse, BUT they have a right to see you acting like a human being who is entitled to respect. They will learn from seeing you act in that way, that all people - including you AND themselves - deserve respect and should not have to act like a dormat to maintain peace. They will learn from seeing you act that way that they cannot treat others as servants who will indulge their every whim.
If you need help to learn to communicate your needs with a dignified but firm resolve, get it. Whether it is through therapy (individual or couples), reading self-help books, talking to other, supportive people (like on here!), whatever - DO IT. If your husband will join you in learning better communication, wonderful. If not, do it anyways! You deserve to be treated with respect, and you deserve to speak your needs out loud, and have them met at least some of the time.
Whew - ok, I'll get down off my pulpit now. I'm sorry I'm ranting. I struggle with these issues (about how to ask for what I want) myself, even though I have a supportive husband - I can only imagine how hard it is when your husband is being selfish or difficult. But purely from the point of view of the kids, I'd say it's FAR better for them to see a little fighting now and then - especially if its handled as best as two people who are only human, after all, can handle it - than to see a Stepford marriage where Dad's every whim is met and Mom is living a life of quiet desparation.
I hope that makes some sense, and I wish you luck as you figure out what to do and how to do it. Your love for your kids and your supreme concern for their wellbeing is so ovbious and so touching. Lucky them to have such a caring mommy!!
All the best,
Maitri
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Sela,
Your last post here was touching to me. I feel like I have been holding my breath forever, and your words to let myself off the hook--so to speak----gave me permission to exhale. My mind is clearing. I am breathing calmly. I have always taken on the responsibility of everything, held my breath, clenched my jaw, and plowed forward with---"Sorry, sorry, sorry" being my mantra.
I have made a vow to stop saying "sorry". "Whoops", once in a while maybe, (since I realize I am not perfect) but sorry, for nothing, nope. And shouldering the burden and responsibility for how the N's make me feel. Especially NH. Nope.
This was hard because NH has been telling me since I have stood up to him a few times I am to blame, and I need meds because I "obviously have a chemical imbalance", and I have been tweaked just enough to almost believe it. But of course he would say that when I am pulling his throne out from under him. Letting him know I will not be his servant any longer. He would say anything to keep that king status in the house. Putting all the blame on me because I had the guts to say something.
Thank you. I have read a lot of stuff talking about how I am co-dependent and an enabler, etc. And I see that, but, you are right, I don't really need that right now. It won't help me get to where I need to be strong enough to stand my ground. And most importantly, love myself. Tall order for me, but one I am working on.
Namaste,
Sunny
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Dear DIVINE SUNSHINE,
In any marriage there will be disputes or else we are talking roomates but that is very different than physical abuse children should not be physically abused or see one parent do this to another.Sunny I just do not understand why you stay .Is there physical abuse AND emotional abuse that you are experiencing ?
Who are the n's in your life ?Your husband?anyone else in your house hold?I do hope you will consider doing what is best for yourself.
And then the anger would dissappear .
[/quote/]
I'd agree that children should be spared from seeing emotionally abusive, unfair fighting, cruelty, or god forbid physical abuse .
But purely from the point of view of the kids, I'd say it's FAR better for them to see a little fighting now and then - especially if its handled as best as two people who are only human, after all, can handle it - than to see a Stepford marriage where Dad's every whim is met and Mom is living a life of quiet desperation.
Do you have a therapist?? Would that help?
In the light
m
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Maitri and all,
For those who lean towards the children learning a way to stand up to the N's by my example, I have to tell you that, I have witnessed in the past few days my oldest daughter actually fight for her rights with her father by speaking up to him and telling him the truth about his actions and how they affect her.
Both times she had the strength to tell him she told little white lies to him so he wouldn't be angry and cause a scene on my bday, or refuse to let him manipulate her to jump on command and do what he wanted her to do when he told her to do it ---because she didn't want to and she didn't argue with him because she didn't want him to throw a fit and be angry. She actually TOLD him this. This is new. She knows I am in the room to back her up and she finally can rely on me to do so. So that is something. So, as long as we are still with the jerk, it is progress to be noticed.
Which brings me to....
Moon,
I don't know why I stay. Fear and uncertainty and lack of self esteem come to mind. But these are things I am working like crazy to fix so I can soon get out. Posting here, knowing I am not alone, and getting encouragment are keeping me on the right path. The path OUT!
Hop,
One day, I will, with joy and pride be able to tell you, I have made it out and I am using the legal system to its fullest. Thanks for your gentle patient prodding. I need it.
Thanks to all,
With love,
Sunny