Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: THATONEGUY00 on February 02, 2007, 12:04:23 PM
-
I could use a few freinds, someone who knows what I am going through. I am new here but have been suffering from invisibility and voicelessness for a while now. I got to tell ya, it hurts ! I moved across country with my fiance to be close to her family and have been here for six months and I still don't raelly know anyone. My fiance is a very successful person at a young age, she just graduated with her masters degree and is always thinking about herself. She is very self absorbed but I love her more than words can say. It really bothered me the other day, when some ppeople at her work made her mad by not thinking correctly for the job they were doing, she was able to realize that their job was an 8 dollar an hour job, so for that amount of money you will not find good help. So she understood why they would approach the job with the kind of attitude they had. she is able to put herself in other peoples postions and understand why they wants what they want and understand their needs. It just is very disturbing that she can not do that for me. I am done trying to explain to her how I feel anymore because I have done so many many times yet she doesn't seem to chang ethings one bit. So since I can see that obviously it is more important for her to worry about her than to worry about why I feel alone when laying next to her, I've just learned to accept the fact that she does not put me in her top five priorities. I guess the wya I figured is, if I want to be with her I have to learn to deal with that. If I lower my needs and expectations of her to none, than I wil lnot be that disappointed anymore. Even though her expectations of me are still very high. Anyone care to comment?
-
Yeah, I care to comment.
Anyone who does not value you enough to have empathy toward you, who won't care or listen to what you have to say...is not worth your time nor effort. I'm a follower of the Bible, and I believe that each person has value of some kind until and unless they prove valueless. You have as much right to be accepted and appreciated as any other human being, and if this lady cannot offer you kindness and consideration for your feelings, DITCH HER. Life is too short to spend precious time trying to MAKE someone care about you. In time, you will find someone you don't have to FORCE into it. Meanwhile, learn to take care of yourself, because ultimately, THAT is who you end up with, right?
~Laura
-
Hey ThatoneguyO
Welcome.
Listen very carefully to your feelings. They will not betray you. I am very sorry you feel so alone and I understand why you are feeling this way. We have all been down the same road on this board. Thatoneguyo, you are not voiceless. We are here to listen to you and each other. Your voice is screaming out to you.
If I lower my needs and expectations of her to none, than I wiLl not be that disappointed anymore. Even though her expectations of me are still very high.
ThatoneguyO, I think we all on this board had lowered our expectations and our needs and it almost destroyed us.
Thatoneguyo I understand you say you love her but isn't love give and take. Why should you lower your needs and expectations to NONE. So you will not be disappointed anymore? Your are not an object hon,.
You say her expectations of you are very high. What are they?
Read everything you can on this board. Look at what we say, look at how we feel or felt.
Please keep posting. We are here. We understand the ups, downs confusion, and all that goes along with it.
We can't tell you what to do, we can listen and share and hold your hand through it all.
Do not ignore or bury your feeling.
Sincerely,
Deb
-
I have a saying.
YOU MIGHT BE GOOD OR HAVE BEEN GOOD TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
BUT YOU WEREN’T GOOD TO ME.
Kind of puts things in its perspective when those confused feeling set in.
Deb
-
Thank you fo rthe replies, each one helps. I am a person who up until a few weeks ago was always filled with hope, hope that one day she will realize what I am going through, hope that she will see error in her ways. She has had a bad childhood, starting with her parents splitting at a young age because of her dads unfaithfullness, molestation and various other bad experiences. So I think that maybe she is avoiding dealing with her pain and in turn has developed a hint of narcisism, thinking that no one is going to help her or care for her but her, and that is all that matters to her. Maybe once a week to once a month she is able to open up to me and really show affection, although very little. I see this personality as disoredered, I consider that a disease and like anyone I care about, I will stick around and see to it that as long as it may take me I will make sure she gets help. I will cry for her, I will take the pain for her. Seriously, she is so much fun to be with.
-
:?
-
Paul,
Reducing yourself to becoming non existent, Invisible, does not sound fun to me.
You seem to be a really heart filled guy. You will cry for her, You will take her pain.
Paul she needs to take on her own pain. You will not make it go away for her. She needs professional help. She needs to sought our her own feelings and get free of them. You cannot set her free only she can do that.
Deb
-
Hi Paul:
Not a very comfortable situation you are in. Welcome here.
One question:
Who's crying for you; taking your pain; caring for you?
Sela
-
just for the record paul and I are same guy, I forgot to sign in. anyways we are going to go to couples counseling before getting married so hopefully that helps her. But I know that on my end I will do whatever it takes to see that we are a very successful and happy couple,regardless of how uncognitive she is of my feelings. THe thing that really eats at me, that she can be so caring when it comes to her family, and friends.She is so giving to them as well and also to herself. But when it comes to me I guess she just feels like I do not need anything of that nature to loved by her. She thinks that our love should be something that is just known not something we have to constantly remind each other of. Which I do agree to an extent but she lacks in empathy and she lacks big time in the showing affection department, and I tie all that o her first male role model in her life, her father who is a very very bad example
-
Paul,
Welcome here. My stomach was doing somersaults reading your post. Well let me tell you from one who lowered her expectations so that they were nothing, it did not get better. It got worse. And I stayed with it in the hope that at some stage it would improve. IT DID NOT and I realise that it never would so then I walked...........took a long time. Today I had a thought about what if I met someone who was charming and felt a red flag go up. Well Paul, you know what. Straight away the answer came to me. I will not waste another moment of my precious life on someone who thought so little of me. I am worth more. I thnk you are too.
axa
-
Hi Paul
You sound like a very caring partner. That is really great but can be pretty destructive to you as well if you think that you can change your partner into something she does not even want to be. She needs very skilled professional help to deal with the abuse she suffered from her father otherwise she may end up putting it all on you.
When I hear you say that you think your love and understandiing will make her more understanding and empathic I fear for you. She is already pretty self centred and you feel alone in bed. You could fall into the trap of trying harder and getting less from her. That is what this site has taught me. We all did that and it nearly killed us emotionally.
Keep in touch and keep writing here. You sound lonely and isolated and this can make you vulnerable in an abusive relationship. I moved to a remote town where I did not know anyone so I put all my energy into my partner. I would have been better off developing friendships that would sustain me long after he was gone.
Sea storm
-
Paul
I understand you are going to be married eventually. You speak about no matter what it takes, no matter how long it takes, you will take the pain, you will cry for her. Yes Paul she has had a horrible, terrible life and her childhood was stolen.
Paul I don't know what your plans are and if you are going to have children.
Do you know that everything you are going through so will your children. Is that acceptable to you? Will it be OK for them to invisible? Should they lower their expectations and just deal with disappointment will they have to learn to deal with that? Should they understand that she does not have to show showering affection to your children that her love should just be known and she should not constantly have to remind them that she does?
Paul,
I know this is really hard to think about and deal with and it is so much easier to run from.
I am not saying I am right. I do not know your situation. I only know what you have spoken of.
I am not saying she is a bad person. I feel for her and her childhood. What horrible things she had to go through. No child should have to go through that.
Think hard and deep Paul, dig into your very soul.
Love Deb.
-
No one is crying for me, the thing is when I moved here I moved away from my family and all of my friends, so that makes it pretty hard not having any kind of support system. My family doesn't really talk to me alot, not because we don't get along, its just because they are really materialistic people and I am the farthest thing from that. So when we talk on the phone, we really don't have much to talk about and I just can't bear to be able to open up to tham because their motive for everything is money money money. They think everyones problems can be solved with money, all love can be bought with money. So they offer no support at all. All replies are very welcome. I thank you all !!!!
-
Hi Paul,
anyways we are going to go to couples counseling before getting married
Given the warning signs you are encountering I believe it would be in your best interests if the date you are married is quite some time in the future. It would be very prudent to take the time to see if you and she are able to make siginficant changes in your relationship prior to marriage. I also think if they don't come it would be very unwise to go ahead with marriage. Marriage will not make an unsatisfactory relationship better, but it will legally and morally entangle you with someone who may not prove compatible.
Patience is a virtue, especially when we wish someone to change. It's not a virtue because they change very often. It's a virtue because we see they don't. If she does change great, but it's not something I would be laying any heavy money on..
mud
-
I am very impressed with everyones reception. I will be on all nightafter I get home in about an hour and I will talk more and in detail I am at work right now. I am really not supposed to be on here right now. Would anyone be able to be online later, I would really love to have someone to talk to, no worry I will be alone. My fiance has to go shopping for stuff for her sisters bachelorette party, her and other bridesmaids are going together for a while after work.
-
Welcome, Paul.
Out of respect, I'll be pretty direct.
It is clear you are sensitive, hurt, and yet some other inner message is driving you to clamp on to this woman as though your sheer determination to sacrifice yourself will inspire her to heal herself.
It won't.
You can't "see that she gets the help she needs." You can worry and strain and eat yourself alive with pain and anxiety and track her every breath and lie in the dark feeling the emotional cold and suffer and suffer and suffer and suffer. Then you can wake up and try again. Try to persuade, cajole, understand, empathize, hold, lovelovelovelovelovelove her into loving you back.
You can throw away your precious chance at a dignified, meaningful, self-respecting life.
You can deteriorate emotionally to the point that you cannot think, only feel and strategize and grasp hopelessly for control.
There's another thing you can do that is guaranteed to break your heart and leave a mark on your life that you never can erase.
You can marry her against your own well-being. Then, later, you can get divorced.
It is a terrible trial to the spirit...and think of this, please:
Every person on this board married in the belief that it would eventually be a healthy, loving partnership...or in some way, be a fulfillment of the dream of marriage.
Marriage is not a dream and you cannot dream it into being.
Even if you marry her, you may not wind up with a marriage.
Don't do what I did...it is a kind of regret you only understand in the way that a person who smokes for many years understands consequences, after the diagnosis.
Don't kill your dream of marriage. You will, I believe, if you marry this woman...
I'm sorry. Your story just makes me want to be very very direct.
I'll understand if you're not able to hear me (I couldn't hear anyone either). But I'd love to spare you that pain. As would we all.
Very glad you're here, Paul. Keep posting. (Don't let me or anybody scare you away! Those who have the good sense to say they don't know your situation are more tactful and I should probably do that too. But I DO know your situation, even with your--and her--uniqueness.)
And read up on CoDependency, please. Start with Melody Beattie's books...
Best to you,
Hopalong
-
In response to the recent post: I understand cc dependancy, this is an issue she has raised with me, she doesn't want me to be so codependant on her, she wants me to be more independant. She has taken an interest in letting me know how unsatisfying it is to be with someone who puts so much importance and emphasis on our relationship as if life would not go on without her. I understand that, and I have recently spen a week by myself, she had to go stay with her dad and help him out for a week out of town. So I spent that week by myself, and took some time to think and reflect and I have been able to pin point things in my past as to why I am so relian. I feel alot more independant now, but my worry now is that I can be independant and she is definately independant but why is it that she is never affectionate or doesn't ever have a moment that she just wants to focus on me. I always give her back massages and full bosy tickle rub downs when we go to bed but last night, she was complaining about her back and I said would you like a massage? and she I guess. So I just laid there because I don't want to just automatically do it anymore, she never comes in and automatically gives me a kiss or just smiles at me, or talks about our future, it is something that I usually initiate myself first. I will not agree to marry her until I feel better about us. I also don't want to spend alot time trying to help her and fix things, if she isn't going to be perceptive of her. As far as friends go, I have met a few people at work that I could hang out with but they all have families and are always busy with that, or have their own thing going and are not interested in adding to that.
-
Am I happy with my job? no, I mean I like my job but my time is much more valuable.My supervisor is very distant and when I speak with her at work its usually about work, and she seems to snuff the fact that I might have an idea to improve things around there. There are couples that we have had dinner with together before, her friends and their significant others. But that doesn't happen often. She wants to be able to have her friends and I have my own friends and very rarely ever mix the two. I enjoy bowling, I plan to join a bowling league as soon as we can afford it, that is where I met alot of friends, other than that place, everyone else I knew was from highschool. I am still going through college, 100% online so I really do not meet many people their. To be honest CB My life at one point was wrapped around her tighter than a chinese finger trap, but I felt like I was smothering her so I backed off a little bit. The problem is, she can't seem to convince herself that even though herself, her family, her friends and her career are among her top priorities, there are ways to involve me as a priority without compromising her values. And she feels that she has created so much for herself that it would begin to deminish everything she has done. The one difference between her success and my current road to success is that she has had tons and tons of support along the way. Lots of friends and family right there 100% the whole way always calling to see how she is doing and they still do. I do not talk to my family unless I call them and that is if they answer after 5 or 6 calls. They seem to have a problem picking up the phone and just caling and saying hey hows your day been. I think it is very depressing that I can count on one hand how many times in the last year my family has called just to see how I was doing, but if I don't call for two or thre weeks and then I finally call because I am tired of waiting for them to call, they all get mad, why haven't you called for a while., do you not like your family or something. That is very depressing. I hear my fiance talk about her friends and how she feels sympathy for them because some minor bull that they go through but she doesn't see me.
-
My fiance is a very successful person at a young age, she just graduated with her masters degree and is always thinking about herself. She is very self absorbed but I love her more than words can say.
What is there about her that is lovable?
Is she kind to you? To others you care about?
Does she give you joy on any level other than physical [which for N-women is nothing more than a power trip]?
Is she generous?
Is she ethical?
Just a few thoughts... oops; one more.
If these things do not matter, what is in their place, what is it that matters more?
This is the time to ask these questions. Later on will be too late...
-
Paul,
So what you are telling us is that you are not a priority? Yet she wants you to be her husband someday? Picture your life with her married and what do you see? Take her as you see her now *what you see if what you get* Where do you see this going?
Love Deb
-
stormchild-
Asside of the fact that she is very very beautiful, she does make me happy, the big thing we have in common is a big sense of humor. I love being with her because she is everything that I would want to spend the rest of my life with. I love and admire so much, her will and her pursuit of her goals. She is a very focused person who can accomplish anything. She sticks by her morals and ethics, and will not bend. She is a very strong person. When ever there is a problem with her family, every single one of hem call her and rely on her because she always knows what to do, or what the best way to handle the situation is. She is very very generous, when it comes to birthday and also when it comes to holidays. I hated christmas shopping this year, we went so much but thats because she will not pay ticket price for anything, it must be a sale. we only spent around 250 dollars on my family of 5 brothers and sisters mom dad step mom step dad two nephews and three sets of grandparents, and they all end up with a big bag full of many gifts. I was so impressed with what she had done and how far she stretched a dollar, which brings me to my next point. We never ever fight about money, because money is nothing but a peice of paper and not a means to revolve your life around. When she does,though vary rarely, come home and put her focus on me and my needs and happiness, there is nothing that exists in this world hat could pull me from such moment.
-
ok CB, you hit it on the dot. I don't know where we will get counseling, I just know we are. I know that I could not go through a with a ceremony feeling like I do, I know it will not solve any problems. As far as kids, she is unable to have kids, I am fine with that. I can be an uncle or cousin but I don't see myself as a parent. If we were to get married right now, I would be unhappy, I know this. But I also know that whether we are married or not, that doesn't mean that its time to just stop trying. I will always keep trying to get things right. I understand I am not going to get that right away, but I also know that even though she may not say it, I am what she wants. I am the one she wants to sleep next to, and the to be there when she is in need. I know I am appreciated, she just doesn't ever express it. Keep the replies coming please, its nice to have people to talk with, it really makes me feel better.
-
Paul,
You are the one she wants. You are the one she wants to sleep next to. You are the one when she needs someone. Yet, she never expresses it? Then how do you know? How do you really know? We all thought that too. And who do you have when you need someone? Do you have her? Will she bend ass backwards over for you and really feel your feelings? Walk in your shoes?
Deb
-
deb you raise a good point, I been able to talk to her, but I am not seeing results, so therefore when I feel like I need to talk I write in a little journal, I write down my feelings and say what I really want to say, and I leave it at that. Last april I had to get some teeth pulled, and I have never had anyone show more concern, and take care of me as good as she did. If I was truly in need, I think she would be there but I am a guy who refuses to be needy anymore, when you look your fiance in the face with tears streaming down your face and you pour your heart out, and all you get as a response is this is the same argument we always have, and it never gets anywhere, that is all she says. When I put myself out there like that and I am very vulnerable and I don't get what I hoped, then that makes me feel like a person who has whined to much. So therefore I am no longer going to seem whiney or needy. I know that in the next 6 months this will be dealt with, while in front of a professional, and if it still isn't right then I will leave but I think she needs a proffessional. I think that is a great answer. When she sees her wrongs, from a perspective from somebody who is not affiliated with our situation, I feel she will change. If not then I will be forced to explore other options.
-
Hi Paul:
I'm just going to free-associate a little. Sorry in advance if I'm way off base.
You seem to have found a woman who is very successful, very focused and goal-oriented, and very clear that her family and friends are priorities in her life. She will go and help her Dad for a week; that says something about her level of commitment to him. You also think she is beautiful and funny. That's great.
But you feel that she doesn't often turn her high beams on you. I find it a little odd that this energetic, focused, helpful person isn't just crazy about planning and talking about your life together. She seems so self-sufficient; she wants to maintain separate friendships. Where do you two intersect? And so much of what you write is about feeling left out of her life. What do you want out of your life? You say that she's everything you want in a life partner, yet you admit that you feel lonely and excluded. You also say that you and your immediate family aren't really close. I think you may have some practice living with exclusion, so it feels kind of "natural" to you. But I beg you to think very, very hard before you sign up for a lifetime of it.
All I really know about being married can be summed up in one sentence: If your partner isn't your home, you've got to move. If you don't feel absolutely welcome, accepted, known, and loved by this person--and that doesn't mean they have to think your God's gift to your gender--then you'll never be able to relax in your own home. Do you feel really, really comfortable with her? Do you feel that she has looked into your soul and liked what she's seen?
My husband and I aren't really "compatible" in many ways. We have many different interests. He's all "right brain," I'm all "left brain." He thinks I'm developmentally disabled because calculus and I never really got along very well. But despite all our surface differences, he knows me completely. He understands me. He's thought about understanding me. And I can rest in that knowledge, and know that he will always be a safe and welcoming place for me.
My marriage isn't perfect, by any means. But my husband and I share one pretty important thing with you and your fiancee--we couldn't have children. And when that's true, the two of you have to become much more to each other. There are no children to bind you together; it's an entirely voluntary union, and it's always easy to untie the knot. No one would be damaged if you went your separate ways. So you question, more than you might otherwise, whether you really want this relationship--or, to put it another way, whether you really want this relationship.
I hope that you'll post about what you want in life. You seem like an interesting guy. I think we'd all like to know you better, and I know from experience that continuing to post here can help you know yourself a little better. That couldn't hurt.
All the best,
daylily
-
Paul,
I think that is a great idea to go to a professional. I went as couples and I went individual for myself. Paul not to burst your bubble or your hopes some people never see their wrongs cause they have none. If they admit they have wrongs it is followed by, but, you made me, because ECT. I think you are wise. You are searching. You are voicing and you will come to terms with things. I hope you pick the shorter road then I did. We here all feel your pain. We have walked in your shoes.
Deb
-
daylily, I feel like we can really connect and relate. She knows me better than my own family. I feel safe with her. I am currently going through college because I too am not satified by minimum wage and I too feel I have alot more to offer. I know I will be successful. The only problem with us is that she doesn't ever show affection to me or if she does its because I intitiated it. I don't ever go out with anyone or myself for that matter, she wants time alone, just to be by herself, which I understand more now then I use to but I don't go out because I would feel bad if I went and spent money when we had bills to pay. I have no debt what so ever, my car is paid off and I have zero credit cards. She has total with school loans, which is 95 percent of the chunck, and credit cards just about 40 grand in debt. I want to go and bowl a few games, I would feel weird doing it by myself but hey atleast I would be doing something rather than staying at home 7 nights a week. So I never go anywhere, she doesn't ever have time for herself. that is something she needs alot, and I don't do it but I am willnig.
-
thanks deb that really means alot. I personally feel that i I pray about it, and our love is as strong as I think it is, we will get to the bottom of everything.
-
Paul,
I have to run out. It's my daughter's birthday. I'll check in later. Keep posting.
Plenty of great people on here. Correction all great people on here.
Take care,
Deb
-
everyone here is great, toknow that I am not alone in the world and there are other people going through the same thing, someone who has been there and lived this. it really helps hearing from many who have been there. thankyou
-
Hey That one guy:
I am glad to hear you are going to college. There you can meet kindred spirits. There are some great courses like Interpersonal Communications, Verbal and Non Verbal comuuniciations that are really mind expanding and can show you a lot about relationships.
$40,000.00 in DEBT for credit cards??????????? This is a major whoops. It seems like you feel responsible for her debt. I am gald you mentioned this as it is making the picture clearer.
It is hard to see an angel lose her wings. But I think you need to for your own self preservation.
Take very good care of yourself. Think about finding a buddy to bowl with. That would be a neat goal. Sometimes a goal can haul you out of a very nasty pit.
Lots of love,
Sea storm
-
seastorm, Just so we are on the same page, thats 40,000 dollars in school loans and credit card debt combined, with 95% of that being school loans. I do not feel responsible for her debt but while we are living together I know that I can always do my part to help with the bills. She came home last night from shopping with her sister, and she was just so beautiful. I tried to give her a kiss and she wouldn't let it go any further. Its like she is afraid of intimacy, well physical intimacy anyway
-
Paul,
Here is an excellent site: http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/ (http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/) for you, tremendously insightful ........ and eye opening too!
Take care,
Leah
-
How do you feel around your partner?
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page1.html (http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page1.html)
-
Beautiful, unavailable [to you], and conspicuously kind and giving to everyone within your range of vision - except you.
Paul, do think about this... it's not an uncommon experience for many of us here.
-
Wow lots of responese....thanks guys ! I feel so much better just being able to talk to people and actually be understood.. I am so glad I am posting here. As far as the website I am on it right now and it is giving some very good pointers, I have never set boundaries, so thats something I need to put thought into. The question how do I feel around her, well I feel great, but at times I do feel as if I am being judged. She is very anal retentative, I will do all the chores, laundry vaccuum dusting, clean the bathrooms wash windows, didshes, mop- the works ! But its so close to the wya she likes it but its just off a little, just enough to make her go crazy because its not her way. So I di feel like the things I do are sometimes not ever going to be good enough.
-
I can pin point the time when she started to change, it was during finals week of her second to last semester of grad school, in which she just graduated in december. I think she is aware that I have mixed feelings about the way some things are, but like I said in an earlier post. I will not just out of the blue bring it up anymore. Because The lack of results in the past has lead to this decision. She doesn't think there is a problem, she doesn't see anything wrong with the relationship, therefore she doesn't worry alot like I do.
-
She is very anal retentative, I will do all the chores, laundry vaccuum dusting, clean the bathrooms wash windows, didshes, mop- the works!
She is a very focused person who can accomplish anything. She sticks by her morals and ethics, and will not bend. She is a very strong person. When ever there is a problem with her family, every single one of hem call her and rely on her because she always knows what to do, or what the best way to handle the situation is.
She is $40,000.00 in DEBT for credit cards. $40,000 dollars in school loans and credit card debt combined, with 95% of that being school loans. I do not feel responsible for her debt but while we are living together I know that I can always do my part to help with the bills. She came home last night from shopping with her sister, and she was just so beautiful. I tried to give her a kiss and she wouldn't let it go any further.
She is very very generous, when it comes to birthday and also when it comes to holidays. I hated christmas shopping this year, we went so much but thats because she will not pay ticket price for anything, it must be a sale. we only spent around 250 dollars on my family of 5 brothers and sisters mom dad step mom step dad two nephews and three sets of grandparents, and they all end up with a big bag full of many gifts. I was so impressed with what she had done and how far she stretched a dollar, which brings me to my next point. We never ever fight about money, because money is nothing but a peice of paper and not a means to revolve your life around.
Red Flags for you from reading here on the board , and on http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/ (http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/)
Leah
-
let me reiterate, I am not saying I do all the household chores all the time, we both do our fair share, but about once a week I will do all of it, so things are easier and less stressful for her. Along with foot rub, back massage and running my fingers through her hair, she loves that !!!