Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on February 07, 2007, 11:38:13 AM
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Hi,
This is a tentative area for me to post about but what the hell.
I'm feeling sad because of my daughter. I was so excited about her coming up.
A few hours with her grandmother put her in a foul mood (now that's probably a sign of health!)
and she called me at work to complain about that, then when we were together, criticized me nonstop. Complained about me putting my mother first over her, scowled through me treating her to dinner, said she envied my ability to buy myself new shoes (which I rarely do, but had jusy given to her--I'd planned to return them) because she doesn't have any money (when I said if I do buy myself anything it has to be on my credit card, then she said well I disapprove of that), bitched at me nonstop about our unpacked belongings (I don't want to unpack the basement because it's a huge task and I don't want to do it until after my mother goes...but my D's room and belongings were unearthed a long time ago...I know she misses some familiar childhood objects but she rails at me for not doing it and with all the unemployment I've been through and back pain and caregiving it's just the last thing on my list for now). I took her to a fabulous dance performance, expensive tickets, special outing, and she didn't like the genre and didn't like people's spontaneous bursts of applause because they interfered with her listening to the rhythm). When we came out it was snowing and downtown looked magical and I asked if we could walk an extra short block and she said no, then she picked up her theme about the basement and railed at me all the way home despite me asking her to hold it until later so I could concentrate on my driving and she ignored that and kept at it and then I was turning at the bottom of the hill and did a 180. Then when we got home she said she wanted help with food so wanted to take home any duplicates we had in the pantry or freezer and I gave her a blank check to take to her doctor's appointment I'd set up for her and went to bed.
All in all, I woke up sad.
Hops
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Often, my experiences with my daughter are similar. Such negativity and criticism is draining, exhausting really. And, as you say, sad. And if we criticize back, "You are so negative" or "Why do you have to criticize?" it comes out wrong.
I discovered positive non defensive communication recently. One strategy is to stop being defensive when criticized (you didn't say you were, but her criticisms affected you.) Maybe ask questions to get her to realize what she's doing. "Did you mean to criticize me about that?" "Did you mean to make me feel inadequate?" There are tons of strategies and some interesting articles on pndc.com.
Dandylife
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(((((( Hops ))))))
You may have sad feelings, but you are not a failure.
You suffered because of whatever transpired between grandmother and granddaughter, and, for some reason your daughter could not let it go.
You have a right to feel sad, after your planned special evening with the added magical snowy scene, was turned sour by your daughters unkind behavior.
My heart goes out to you Hops for you are a truly lovely woman with a lovely heart and a great encourager to us all.
Thinking of you,
Love & a Hug
Leah
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Oh ((((((((((Hopsy)))))))))))), I'm so sorry it didn't go well. D was triggered by her grandmother and it tapped into all the work she still needs to do on herself. She is not at peace with herself yet and probably won't be for a long time. She took it out on you because it is safe for her to do so. A compliment??? Probably doesn't feel like one. The past got dredged up for her and she is not as far along as you in dealing with it. Maybe after some thought you can write to her and bring up how that treatment made you feel. Because it was hurtful to get dumped on like that and maybe that is not the only thing a Mom should be good for. Moms are people too. Espcially good loving moms like you.
Love, Pennyplant
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Dear Dear Hops,
Aw I know how you feel. I have similar things that happen with my daughter and myself. My daughter is 22 right now. A young Adult. She thinks she knows everything and is so wise. I would like to knock her in her head sometimes.
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I don’t’ see her often and when I do it is not enough time. She is in college and her life has revolved around her. I understand that is the way it has to be. She has a full time job, a full time college student and she really enjoys being with her friends (which she should). She is having the time of her life. Her 20’s will go so fast and she will have to be a full time grown up very soon.
When we are together instead of just enjoying it I go through similar things like you do often.
Please don’t feel like you are a failure. You are not. I am not.
I understand you feel sad that she just didn’t’ get it. She did not capture the moment to just enjoy it. Everything you did, she picked at, and she criticized.
I’ve been there Hops, I’m sure I’ll be there again.
Ai, Yi, YI, YI, KIDS!!!!
Love Deb.
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Hops SWeetie,
So sorry that your evening went so badly. You gotta know that your D was dumping all her stuff on you. It is hard not to take it personally but it really is her stuff. I know how little you get to go out and about and wish it could have been a more pleasant evening. Maybe you need to tell you rD how disappointed you were about the evening. Is this normal behaviour for her or is she just having a bad day.
love an hugs,
axa
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Hops
Maybe when your daughter gets a handle on her life she will not be blaming and looking for you to to be fixing everything.
Could she still be grieving the early loss of her dad and this covers all her emotions?????
So sorry she has not tried harder but she will and she will see one bright day that the blaming keeps her from what she really wants
I hope this happens for both of you soon.
love to you Hops
sometimes it's like "when do I get a break"
hang in there
love and cyber hugs
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HOPS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))0
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Thanks so much Axa, Deb, PP, Leah, Dandy, and Moon...
I think what gets to me more than her venting about her frustrations is that she has an attitude of entitlement:
give me money, food, support, time, anything I ask for ... unfortunately, her critical rants are par for the course.
It'll pass. She's contacted me a couple times today and realizes I'm not happy. Even said, "Are you all right?" I just said "More or less" since I couldn't talk from work. BTW, thank you for the Non-defensive communication link, Dandy. It was dandy--really good.
I won't obsess. She'll turn out okay, or not...but I've pretty much done all I can for now.
Thanks for your kindness and sympathy...just what I needed! Pooooooooor me...
(I'm sure you're right, Moon--she's still deeply affected by the loss of her dad six years ago.)
I'll go home and focus on a peaceful, nondefensive evening. All will be well.
love to all,
Hops
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Boy oh boy, Hops!! How do we slave and give everything to our children and then have them bitch at us for being a slacker or whatever!! Hopefully you are just PMSing and that you'll get over it when the hormones slow down. OR, you can just hold your tongue and wait for your daughter to grow up!! One thing I learned after I had kids is they don't love us just because we are cool!!!
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Thanks Kell.
I've been done PMSing for a few years now... :lol:
Appreciate the thought!
She'll grow up. Meanwhile, I can attend to my own happiness and not make it dependent on her reactions to or opinion of me.
Hops
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(((((((Hops)))))))
Love and warm thoughts to you.
Leah xx
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Hops: Well, I am not so lucky. I still ride the hormonal roller coaster. The cramps that feel like labor. The headaches. The gush.....................well TMI!! ANyway, you are right.....if you get all upset because of her bad mood, than that is just codependence. So keep moving forward and remember that your happiness is not contingent upon hers!! Good Girl!!!
Kelly
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((((((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))
There are many good ideas here... I like Dandy's way of approaching the situation...Regardless of how your daughter feels towards your mother, her behavior is rude and disrespectful. I hope sometime she will realize that it hurts to be treated in that manner.
I don't have any personal advice as my issues lean towards getting homework done and paying attention at this point... I know the difficult days are out there.
Take care hops.
Love, Beth
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Hops,
I can see why all that made you sad. It makes me sad too and I wish things were better between you and your daughter. I'm sending you ((((((((((((((((((hugs for Hops))))))))))))))))))))) and lots of love.
tt
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oh yuk. Kids can be so maddeningly selfish. Hope she wisens up to herself one day soon.
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Hops, I have not fully read all this thread but I have several thoughts I want to share. I suspect your daughter is acting like a child (sort of tantruming) because she really needs your mothering. Because he is an adult now you are hoping for an adult relationship but she is not there yet. I suspect she is railing with the unconscious need to be taken under wing. It just happens that what you need and long for is something quite different and much more equal.
Last fall when she was acting much the same you very patiently waited it out and things turned around. This time I gently suggest that you might consider reaching out to her and probing to help her figure out what is really gnawing at her. We never get too old to be mothered. - your friend - Gaining Strength
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Thanks Jac, Storm, TT, GS...
Your kindness really helps. I appreciate your thoughts very much.
I did try some Dandy non-defensive stuff last night but executed it poorly, so we both were left drained and sad. She is SOOO frustrated that I'm living with my mother, yet drills me through about it every time she's near. She angry that she has to negotiate around her grandmother, angry that childhood things are still in boxes...basically angry that I ever moved back here because she finds the town pretentious. (I am happy in this town, it's where I want to live. But my D feels I should've stayed in the city and that my reasons for moving were all stupid. I know she misses that city but she was in college when I decided I wanted to move back to my home town. For my own sake, I'm glad I did. I have a feeling she'd be just as angry with me if I were still there...it's not so much the town as it is her feelings about the family, such as we are.) As to eldercare, it's a choice I made 8 years ago and have (finally) made my peace with. But D can't see that for me now, it's no longer as toxic and debilitating as it was once--because she seems to assume I'm static and unchanged. She also talked about how many things in her own life suck, in the last minute or two. I know that we'll connect again but wish I handled things in a way that would help her. Nothing seems to: no question, no gesture. I actually told her that I felt she had no interest in anything about me except my money.
I wish I COULD take her under wing, GS, but it's kind of like picking up a porcupine that just swallowed a landmine.
Time will ease it. She didn't leave angry but sad. And I felt the same. As the day went on things felt easier. It is a horrible thing to admit but it is so difficult that sometimes I realize I'm not looking forward to being with her. I know I'll be attacked and I am not always able to keep up the Plexiglass.
I do trust in time. And thank you, my friends. Your ears are a comfort.
I'll be letting it go again for now, recover my serenity...
love,
Hops
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I wish I COULD take her under wing, GS, but it's kind of like picking up a porcupine that just swallowed a landmine.
Yikes!! Oh I must be waxing philosophical! I have a porcupine too and he's only six. Last night he was lamenting that at lunch he can't sit with 4K children because he's in 5K. He want's to sit with a boy named Jeremiah. So I suggested that we invite Jeremiah to our valentine party. Then he argued that I didn't know Jeremiah's phone number. And each time I offered a solution he argued about why that wouldn't work. Finally - frustrated - I said irritatedly, "Well we just won't invite him them." To which he launch into a crying fit. I wasn't very sympathetic. (He is so much like his father. I didn't know little bitties could argue just for the sake of arguing.) But I still think if we could love our porcupines from a distance, in our heart, it would help them (and maybe us.)
I know it is difficult and painful AND so disappointing. She is railing about her own pain while she thinks she railing about you. Just hope she can figure that out before it takes to much out of you. - your friend - Gaining Strength
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Hi CB,
You guessed right that I was trying to be cheerful, hadn't dealt with it yet. It caught up with me last night and I cried until 4:30 a.m., emailed a long vent to my minister. It's in the dark of the night that the pain is greatest, when the thought "my only child hates me" gongs in my head, and then I think of how she is (now) and how my Nmother is (always), and how I feel smashed in between them. I even see how my D has many behaviors like my mother's, such as walking in the door talking about herself and what she needs and never, ever, asking me how I am. And, refusing 19 out of 20 requests I make to do anything with me, small or large. My friends are quite busy, so I really do need to get better at meeting my own needs. (I suppose my fantasy of sitting on a barstool waiting to be plucked off but some younger fella looking for an education isn't the right idea?).
I used to refer to my D as "evidence of the god of getting one thing right." To see what we are now, I guess, feels like "evidence that I really have not done anything right." Anything that matters, anyway.
It's just long and hard and lonely when she twists the knife. I know that in time there will be more contact. One tough thing was her pulling the "oversensitive" and "overreacting" labels out of her quiver. I don't think I became a poet by accident, that state of being is wired in. At times in my life I've been a human harp. It's probably taken all my skill to develop as much hide as I have, and compared to many's, it's a thin one with moth holes. And, in many ways, she reminds me more and more of her Dad. Love her? Unconditionally. I am just feeling like a punched-out teddy bear who could use some love herself and doesn't know where to find it. I think one of the worst times, dark of night etc., is when I extrapolate that this kind of loneliness is my permanent lot. I know the cures: help someone else, get out and walk, don't ruminate. I'll do 'em. Feel better this morning, too.
I can't thank every one of you who has eyeballs to read this enough for doing just that.
CB, you ask really good questions:
Do you see anywhere where you need to set a boundary with your daughter? Even non-N's can get to feeling entitled. I can get drawn into that if I already feel guilty--and I almost always feel guilty about something.
I give her money I truly can't afford. I do feel sorry for her poverty. Still, she did blow her whole inhertance from her Dad at 19 and 20, and ever since, seems to feel I need to make up for it.
Do you feel bad that you couldnt enforce a boundary with her (like when you said you didnt want to talk while you were negotiating the weather)?
Yes, I do. I think I let them fall because I am so fearful that she will abandon me forever. And that's a terrible reason to let her take advantage of me. But I do. It's a hard habit to stop and I should. I can't "buy" or "fix" or "pay for" her to become appreciative or loyal or kind. If it's not who she's decided to be, so be it. I just have a lot of trouble accepting it. I'd better, though. I want to do it while maintaining some faith in her...and I'm losing that. Maybe in myself, too. You know...just the usual incoherent despair people feel when they're badly hurt. I'm not making good sense.
Or are you just sad that you would have to?
Both. Sad that the old shared-laughing goofy domestic friendly togetherness seems permanently gone. And deeply hurt that she keeps making new declarations about it. Those are the things that hurt me most, her statements. She says it's simply honest and there is no need to ever censor herself, ever. So she says things to me like: I only want a superficial relationship with you. And last night on the phone: I think you are a person with whom I might occasionally blunder into something that we might possibly enjoy together, but that's all.
When she makes rejecting declarations like that, with details, it really, really, really, really kills me. (Well, hyperbole...but I guess the verbal truths hit home. That's where I live, word-land...statements like that linger a long time.)
Anyway, sun's out. I'm still breathing.
Thank you. All of you.
Hops
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she says things to me like: I only want a superficial relationship with you. And last night on the phone: I think you are a person with whom I might occasionally blunder into something that we might possibly enjoy together, but that's all.
Wow, that is so very hurtful. No wonder you cried all night. I would have been devastated.
I don't have an answer for things like that. We get what we get sometimes with our kids. They are individuals who came from us but are not necessarily like us. No guarantees just because we share DNA. It is especially hard for you since she is your only child.
Methinks she is playing you as far as the money and perhaps some other things too. Someday you will be ready to say enough is enough. Someday it will become crystal clear and you will be able to say what needs to be said. I think that day will come when you believe that you don't deserve to be treated this way. I think you don't deserve to be treated this way. But that is not enough. You have to believe it. And some day you will.
Love, Pennyplant
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Hops,
I'm so sorry to hear about your pain. I understand you are sandwiched between caring for your mother and trying to care for your daughter.
I'm probably going to get flack for this, but here goes: I do not have children, so I can't speak as a mother. But, I can speak as a daughter.
I don't get the impression that your daughter was a 'problem' child or a bad seed. Perhaps she was, but, I haven't gotten that impression. I also don't get the impression that she is an oppositional person and has always opposed you and fought you her whole life just for the sake of fighting and opposing. Again, pehaps she is/was, but, I haven't gotten that impression.
Question: Do you see some of your past behavior (your behavior when you were voiceless, prior to becoming aware of Nism) contributing to some of the behavior that your daughter currently exhibits?
Has she told you of specific incidents that she recalls from childhood which left a lasting impression of pain in her? If so, have you had a frank discussion about these incidents with her or do you think she feels voiceless about these past incidents?
So many people on this board post about the rejection they feel when they have tried to discuss with parents past incidents in which they felt their parents left them voiceless. Is that dynamic occuring with you and your daughter?
Do you think that if you had a talk with her and acknowledged how you participated in creating her voicelessness (assuming that you did participate and this may be an erroneous presumption), she would have a more open and warmer atittude towards you?
I make these assumptions (perhaps erroneously) because I have learned that voicelessness, N behavior and FOO dysfunction is transmitted generationally. So, I'm thinking that perhaps dysfunctional behavior and coping mechanisms were passed on to you by your mom and therefore perhaps you may have passed on them on to your daughter.
Love,
dazed
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each time I offered a solution he argued about why that wouldn't work. Finally - frustrated - I said irritatedly, "Well we just won't invite him them." To which he launch into a crying fit. I wasn't very sympathetic.
Good! Eric Berne calls this a game of 'yes, but...' and the only way not to play it is disengage. I guess it's sort-of appropriate in a 6 year old and not in an adult though!
I am so fearful that she will abandon me forever.
forever is an awfully long time. Feeling abandonned is horrible, but even if she does wander off as she has before, she comes back. You can love her from a distance and wait? This is where I usually pray when there's nothing else can be done...
she says things to me like: I only want a superficial relationship with you.
that's such an emotionally-charged thing to say especially to a parent. Not the kind of thing I'd say to someone who I thought of superficially.
You are so loving and kind it must be really hard for you to take this hurtful behaviour and especially as a parent, we always wonder if we should be doing anything and feel responsible...but she is old enough to start learning from her mistakes.
When we hurt people they are angry with us and withdraw from us and make it clear they will not hang around to hear such things...so do that. It doesn't even have to be emotional- just say 'oh I'll talk to you when you're in a better mood' or 'I don't like to be treated this way' or whatever feels right and let her walk away.
Whatever happened in the past is in the past and maybe it's time to draw a line under that. Don't tell her she's like her dad or even think that...she's not her dad and you're both adults. You don't have to be harshly attacked just because you're her mother, she doesn't have the right to attack you because of the past.
I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time, it's time for some self-care maybe right now.
What's happening with your work and your mum? ( sorry, so out of date with threads if you have posted about this elsewhere )
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Hi Dazed,
I have apologized to my daughter many times for the choices I made (especially my second marriage) that contributed to her stifling. I haven't figured out how to make the other apology, which is to express how sorry I am that I let her be exposed so much to my mother when she was a child...how I didn't know what Nism was, nor how to fight off the influence on her. I let her down terribly....
I am sure a lot of what I've done has helped mess her up. Lately, it feels just like a collision of personalities. She is drawn to the dark (serial killer stories) and brutal (boxing matches) and I am trying to go toward light. It's really hard for us to find a place to meet in the middle...
I have been a crappy, anxious listener...when she begins to rant her voice grates and I feel as though I'd rather jump through glass than listen. That's awful, but true. So my task now is to maximize my listening in every way I can. I have a lot of trouble figuring out the difference between being tolerant and being a doormat. If I don't accept everything she says as accurate, she goes ballistic. Sometimes I feel she's insisting that I interpret her in a certain way.
Well, it's complicated, and exhausting. I will rest now and let it settle and see what comes up. I do feel good about one exchange we had...when she was accusing me of being "over' sensitive and I told her to tell someone that is to invalidate them. And that I am made that way and am not ashamed of it.
I guess sometimes things are planted that don't ripen for a long time. I'll keep the faith.
Even if I'm responsible for all of it, I can't take on any more guilt or I'd sink.
Thanks,
Hops
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Thank you Write, so much.
I'm really touched by your kindness. (Especially after I just put you and the bf under my opinionated microscope! Thanks for tolerating that.)
One thing really hit me in your post, the simple assertions you suggested.
Those simple statements that declare I have a right to retreat and don't like being mistreated.
I realized just then that I'm STILL voiceless in a way, because I don't even risk saying that!!!!
I retreat but silently, without telling her how I'm feeling, until it's built up for a few days.
That's stoooooopid.
Thanks, Write, for another "Write right insight."
xxoo,
Hops
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Hi Hops,
Maybe when you feel strong enough, you could have one more talk with her about how the influence of your mom played into your relationship with your daughter. At least then you'd know that you've done everything you can do. Whether or not she agrees with you is almost secondary; at least she will hear your words and she will know that you are trying to make the relationship right. Just a thought.
Hops, don't be so hard on yourself for letting her down. You did the best you could do. Letting others down and making mistakes is part of the human condition. Forgive yourself and maybe some of the guilt will be released. None of us are Superwoman, you're human and fallible, so please forgive yourself and try to dump the guilt. The guilt does neither you nor your daughter any good.
"I have a lot of trouble figuring out the difference between being tolerant and being a doormat. If I don't accept everything she says as accurate, she goes ballistic. Sometimes I feel she's insisting that I interpret her in a certain way." The mother-daughter relationship is a super charged relationship and can be very prickly.
As far as where tolerance starts and door mats begin, how about using some boundaries and listening to your inner voice? If she starts to rage, try telling her calmly (and I know this is sssooooo hard) that you are happy to speak with her, but you will no longer accept her screaming at you and that when she is calm and ready to talk (not yell), then you two can finish your discussion. If she persists in screaming, walk away. Either she will stop her ballistic ways or she won't, but you will feel more grounded for enforcing your boundaries.
I know that it is so hard to change the dynamics of a relationship which one has had for one's entire life and it's even harder when the relationship is mother and child, let alone mother and daughter.
Hang in there and best of luck.
Love,
dazed
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Dear Hops,
I am so sorry to hear about your troubles with your daughter and how hurt and helpless you feel in all this
I have a daughter too and she will be 30 in a few weeks. I love her to bits and she is very difficult. She gets angry at me at the drop of a hat. Things have been very bad for the last three years. Finally, I said that I was willing to listen to every resentment that she had toward me. I really had to hear a lot. Some of it I knew about and some was unexpected. What really hurt her the most was her feeling of being dispensible and pushed aside for other people. Two boy friends were the main problems. She was deeply hurt underneath the anger. She was angry, confused, hurt, disappointed by my passivity with bossy, mean spirited ExN.
I could hear her pain and I have to admit that I could barely stand it. I swore to myself that I would listen to her and not say one defensive thing. This was very difficult. I didn[t interupt her either. It took me years to do this. I was afraid of what I would hear.
I did not shelter her from life and I invited bad people into our little world. It broke her heart.
She was very grateful that I listened finally. I was grateful that she was willing to forgive me.
She is not stuck in the angry eight year old space now and it has been back to being friendly and laughing together. She told me she missed that too.
Hops, I know that you are one of the funniest, most decent, best people ever. Your daughter is really angry at you and punishing you big time. She told you grandma bugs her and she means it. I wonder what the whole story is there. Let her talk. Maybe you can compromise on the grandma thing.
Whatever happens I know how it hurts when your beloved daughter is angry at you. It is so hurtful. She also sounds like a naughty puppy. There is plenty going on there and she knows what to say to provoke you. Be gentle and loving with yourself. She is coming from a very young place and striking out. You are standing tall. You did the best you could.
Forgive yourself. And set a few guidelines.She is sort of kicking you around. I do this with my kids. We agree on no put downs, one person speaks at a time, everybody gets to have a say. This helps a lot.
All the best to you Hops
You are such a strong, beautiful and matriarchal voice here. I guess even eagles need help sometimes.
Sea storm
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PP,
Your empathy was pure balm. Just having you say "no wonder you cried" was very healing for me. As though you were saying, you're no emotional mutant, it's okay to feel hurt. Thank you, dear. and your suggestion that I'll come to the place where I draw the line, that it will come...thank you for that too.
CB,
Thanks for your compassion and for the challenge. That's a helluva a challenge. To set the boundaries as a parting parenting gift...and I thank you. You're right about the risks, of her anger or further withdrawal, but you're right about what is important to teach her, too. I don't like it that she came up here, flayed me good, and left with a fistful. Thank you for spelling out, basically, that "if you're mean to me you don't get rewarded for it." I don't want to manipulate her (mom's been a master teacher) but I do want to say something straightforward like that. I'll try to keep it simple. Pull away when she's ranting (she usually doesn't yell or scream, it's just a very intense voice...of course, to SensiHops, it's a siren). And be clear that in future, cash I don't have is cash she doesn't get. She was very sweet in an email when she got home and said "thank you for everything", so I think she may at least have heard that part.
Dazed, thank you. I think she and I will talk about her grandmother for a long time, and I DO need to say somehow that I truly regret not sheltering her more from her. The difficult part was, the healthiest piece of my mother loves my D, and my D also loves her (and hates her). As a little girl she spent a great deal of time with her grandmother, who paid for her private school, played piano with her, etc. She also had the love of her grandfather. He was sweet to her but not terribly strong in his influence, because my mother was so overinvolved. I was fairly worn out from single parenting and working fulltime, so I accepted too much of their help. It contributed to too much passivity in accepting my mother's vision of how my little girl should be raised. I know it, and I can admit it to my daughter. I don't blame her for being a little crazed by me living with her grandmother now, and I wrote her that after she left. I just told her I was very sorry it was so horrible for her here, and I really do understand her reasons. (That said, she doesn't need to start a flame war against her grandmother every time she comes.) I can tell she also hates my diminishment in my mother's home...D remembers me as more vital, more laughing, more free, when we lived on our own in a big city, had friends in, etc. (Hmm. That tells me she's also upset because she does love me. Wow. That helps.)
Thanks, all of you, very much.
Happy Sundays to each and every one, or at least peaceful ones.
love,
Hops
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Sea,
You've walked in my galoshes. Thanks so much for sharing your story of similar issues with your own D. My daughter also witnessed my hurt with several Nbfs. And your dialogues with her encourage me too.
Your kind words about me lifted me up. Your bravery in listening to every single resentment your D carried is awesome, and inspiring, and no wonder she respects you and has come closer to you now. Good for you, and thanks for the inspiration.
I find it awkward to agree with my D because in the very short term, at least, I can't leave a 96-year-old to fend for herself. So I am going to see it through. I told my D that as far as her grandmother goes, I'm fulfilling a promise. And I am...I was so horrifed by nursing homes that I promised both her and my dad that as long as it was physically and financially possible to keep them at home, I would. When/if that changes, we'll do what we have to do.
So I wrote D that I've made my peace with it and will see it through, and that although I've paid a price, I have also learned irreplaceable things. (She knows about the Nism discovery. I think though, that since she's so seldom here, she doesn't see the liberating side of my learning. She assumes I'm stuck because things still look the same on the surface.)
The other side of it is that my D has also paid a price. Losing the sense of our free, fun home as we used to share (after my divorce from the artist, who was a crappy husband and stepfather and really oppressed her). She and I did have a lot of fun when we were on our own together, and she missed coming home to JUST ME. Ever since I moved, she's had to come home to her grandmother too, and she has made clear that this was not a happy thing. I understand completely.
So, that's what happened. And now it's done, she's 26, and I'm not going to move house right now so that when she comes home every 3 or 4 months for a weekend she'll like it better. But one day soon, she'll find it is a different home she's coming to, with pyschological space for us both.
Wearing myself out here, but thank you again Sea. Your kind words really touched me. And I loved hearing about your healing changes with your daughter.
love
Hops
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For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.Ephesians 2:10
God is a very capable craftsman. God's workmanship is of the highest quality.
We are God's workmanship. We are the art of a competent Creator.
Notice in this text that our creation 'in Christ Jesus' means that we are competent as well. We are like our Creator in that we have been created 'to do good works'. God who is capable of good works made us to be capable of doing good works as well.
This is quite a contrast to 'you can't do anything right'.
In dysfunctional families and institutions people learn to doubt their competence. This doubt leads many people to work harder and harder to demonstrate their abilities.
In dysfunctional systems, however, no matter how hard we try, we can't try hard enough. We learn that our problem is not that we are human and occasionally make mistakes but that we are incompetent people. We learn that we are flawed in a most basic way. No matter how compulsively we try, we can't ever get it right.
This text is an affirmation of our competence, of our importance in God's plans. God affirms us by saying "there are good things for you to do, and I believe you can do them". Notice that the text does not say that we need to do good works to earn God's love or to win God's approval or that we have to do the work perfectly or compulsively. What is does say is that God sees each of us as capable of good works. God invites us to participate in the creative, redemptive work that God is doing in the world.
God sees us as capable.
You are competent, God.
Your works are good works.
It amazes me that you see me as competent.
Thank you for believing in me.
Help me to trust your words of affirmation.
Help me to find joy in doing good.
Amen
Copyright 1991 Dale and Juanita Ryan
That helped me forgive myself and 'let go' - stop looking back, wishing I had known then what I know now, and, the I could have done things better for my son, kept him away from under nmother's influence etc etc etc.
Love & Blessings to all.
Peaceful Sunday thoughts.
Leah xx
Thank you
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Thanks, Leah.
That was a lovely teaching...gentle, loving.
It is good to talk about how we feel when we realize we didn't protect a child adequately from an Ngrandparent. Much less ourselves.
Another thought I had this a.m. is how much I fear my D's behavior is a choice to be cruel. But I don't want to believe that about her. That's the real pain, I think. Fearing something and being even more afraid to name it. I read this in a Salon column about TV, of all things. Found it validating, amusing and horrifying, and well, that's irony for ya:
Concluding remarks
People who need to torture people are definitely the loneliest people in the world. But don't forget, even sadists like Jack Bauer and the producers of "Grease: You're the One That I Want" and masochists like G. Child and Jus Rhyme and even Lindsay Lohan were once innocent little babies, full of joy and wonder and faith in the parents and friends and society that would eventually teach them to be suspicious and pessimistic and angry, and turn them into fearful, self-doubting obsessive-compulsives who need to crush other people's hopes and dreams just to make themselves feel more alive. We could wish that they might feel love, enough love that they might once again be giddy and openhearted and vulnerable, that they might once again gaze at the branches of trees and feel the cold noses of dogs and pronounce it all exciting and delightful. But then there would be no one to torture the terrorists, and our towns and cities would be teeming with street mimes and ironic rockabilly bands and child psychologists. No thank you, sir!
Hops
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I am so sorry, Leah.
I understand.
Hops
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Hi hops,
Well here is my two cents worth. When your D starts blaming and being angry with you could you try some active listening. The hard bit is to be present but try to be the observer also. Mirror back to her what she is saying e.g. so what you are saying is..... what I hear you saying is.... all the time you are clarifying her issues back to her. Let her sit with what she is saying to you. Stay out of the dialogue yourself, just mirror and listen and see what happens. I have found this very effective at times. Also acknowledging what is underneath the statement e.g. you are very angry, you are hurt/sad whatever........... try and keep your counsel and your opinions out of it. Maybe this will change the dynamic to some degree.
About the abandonment I understand this. The fear of abandonment keeps us all locked into dysfunctional communication. Seems like D has raised a big issue for you here. I often think if I was not afraid what would I do.......... and the answer is sooo much more than now, so much more freedom.
On another note, it sounds to me when someone spends so much time being angry with you and negative they are looking for something. I wonder are you the only person in the world she feels able to express her anger towards? I just feel something about feeling safe enough to let it all out with you. I could be totally wrong but it is just a thought. Her behaviour is not ok but my guess is that it is about something much more than her words.
On your mothering..........like the rest of us, you did the best you could
Sending you hugs, love, and snuggles,
axa
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Hops
I am so sorry your daughter is not in a place where she can see you for who you are, she will come around I just know it.
I too have been thru problems with my 2 girls especially with the oldest one.
She blamed me for every painful experience she ever had.And it took a lot of time for her to be out of blaming.
My oldest girl would say things that were hurtful.
I know as a parent I have made mistakes we are human and also as a parent I know my daughter has blamed me for things I even warned her not to do.
It is a sad feeling.But your her Mom and I know she will in time turn to you with love AND her love is there under all her fear and anger......
My oldest girl has said I should have disciplined her more .I was so afraid I would hurt her like I was as a child I went the other way.
Number 2 d is easier and more gentle. My 2 d's are 14 years apart .
Oh Hops to think of you hurting when all you want to do is share your love must be difficult time right now.
Your daughter lost her dad and maybe she just directs that on to you .
You are so compassionate to be taking care of your mom and all the care you give to her as well.
I do hope your daughter will be open to you explaining the care you give to her grandmother and see how incredibly strong you are and really see the wealth
of love you give.Setting boundaries is something I am just learning .
My oldest girl is 28 now and it has been in the last few years her anger is gone.
When my daughter was behaving in this way all I could think was she sees kindness as a weakness and it's so hard when you just want to love them.
Hops your d will learn from her mistakes and learn to love and let go of her anger.
so many others have such good advice
love to you hops and for all you do and give here
MOON xoxo
P.S. OMG axa that is so right
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I fear my D's behavior is a choice to be cruel. But I don't want to believe that about her.
that's true of any adult, though it's usually more complex with unresolved issues and emotions I guess.
Why don't you want to believe it? Is it because she may have unresolved issues and emotions or because you feel responsible?
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Thank you, Axa.
When my D was about 10 I first learned the "active listening skills " model from a therapy group. I was so excited about it (really, it was revelatory) that I explained the whole thing to her. Darn it. She's too smart for me. One time she was trying to tell me about something and I kept "mirroring" "You feel _____, etc" and she gave me a look and said, Mom, don't use your "skills" on me. Heist on me own petard! :?
You're right about another facet of the anger...another T said to me once when I was worried about her anger, a child shows their anger to the parent they feel safest with. Her Dad was intimidating and sometimes mean, so she wouldln't challenge him until late high school. Even so, you're also right that meanness in her isn't okay, and I want to make that clear by calmly stepping back if she hurts me. I don't think I need to analyse her behavior so much, either...just feel better about myself so I feel entitled to say No. I won't go there with you.
Moon, thank you for your kindness and your ever-present faith. It helps me to hear your daughter is turning a corner now, at an older age than mine. I'm very sorry you had to wait for it! And I hope there are many sweet times between you to come.
About your 2nd D being so different...well, there's the gene thing. (One thing a bit scary to me is asking myself if her Dad's personality is now coming out in her...but if it is, I can't control that either.) A better position for me to be in is hopeful but not expectant, and focus on my own growth. I'll always love her regardless.
love,
Hops
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(((((((((((((((Hopsy))))))))))))
Close your eyes if you are not ready to read this... I'm going to be a bit harsh...
Hops, I know my mother does not love me. I know my mother is a mean N. But I have NEVER treated her the way your daughter treats you.
I agree with Penny, a time will come when you are ready to deal with this (and I hope it's sooner...). Your daughter is being rude and selfish and rotten. I am not saying that that is what she IS, but that is how she is behaving. And rather than apologizing or trying to figure out what's wrong, you should be telling her you will not accept that behavior from her.
Hops, I really believe that you are far more likely to lose her overall continuing the way you are going now. She feels she can be rude to you and still tap you for money, even when she is taking what you need. She obviously has no respect for her... and you are letting her do that in fear of losing her. My opinion is that if you were to distance yourself and start usinmg that great two-letter word - NO, she might start treating you like an individual.
Hops, it doesn't matter what she is mad or upset about. Now is now and she is an adult, though she sure doesn't act like one.
As for you, I think you need to find some love and happiness in your life from someone else right now... a friend or acquaintance nearby. Is there someone you can go for walks with or get coffee with and get to know better? Of course, we are always here, but a 3D person would be nicer. You won't get the love that you want from your daughter. Not now at least. Keeping that hope burning is hurting you even more.
((((((((Hops))))))))
I am so sorry you are going through this.
Love you,
beth
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Thanks, Beth. More starch for my spine.
Everybody/anybody:
What's your opinion on whether I should write her now and say more about how this visit went, and make some statements about boundaries and how I regret not having set them more consistently? Or is that stupid, and I should just do it moving forward...the next time she asks for money, for example. What do you think?
thanks,
Hops
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I think I would just let it go until the next input from her.
But you could have guessed that!
Thanks for not being upset with my advice.
Love, Beth
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Hops,
I am a great letter writer but I usually dont send them, which in retrospect I am glad of. I find them great to get it all out of my system. I dont think she could hear you now. She needs someone to blame for whatever is making her unhappy and I think would turn it round to mean that you are just being mean and selfish. How about write it and sit with it and see what happens.
I think that the whole boundary issue is so deep with so many of us here. I wonder if loving her means listening and keeping yourself safe. There seems to be so much negative energy between you right now that adding to the energy may make things more difficult.
What would you get from sending the letter
Do you think it would make things clearer for you/her
Axa
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Hops,
I’m going to give you my opinion from being a mom myself to a daughter who has not acted any different then your daughter. I could bring on my sister about her daughter, my friends and probably any one walking in the street that will say the same thing.
Does my daughter act and feel she is entitled to things some times, yes she does. She can be a know it all. My daughter is 22 years old so there is a four-year difference with your daughter, not much.
She doesn’t have a lot of money. She works F/T and goes to college F/T. She gets crabby and bitchy and lashes out at me. My opinion is you have to lay the cards on the table. I have no problem telling mine. I’m sorry if you’re in a bad mood but you will not take it out on me and you can take it back where ever it came from. You need to remember whom you are talking to. If you are so miserable then go home come and see me when you are in a better mood or tell me what is really bothering you. If I’m the one who is bothering you then lets do it. I’m here and I’m listening.
I think hop that my daughter is having hard time cutting the apron strings and visa-versa. She is really not quite sure of herself even though she is off and flying she is not soaring yet.
Hops, I enforce my boundaries but I still would have given my daughter a blank check for her doctor and I would of given her food just like you.
I am not going to stop being her mom (no matter what).
Love Deb
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Thanks, Deb. It's good to hear from someone who's got a daughter at a similar age. Thanks for absolving me for paying for her doctor, too. Turns out she has slightly abnormal liver tests and now needs an abdominal ultrasound... I am pretty sure it's nothing but we'll find out in a few weeks.
Y'all, thank you. I think the advice to find some silence and let things breathe is exactly what I need to do.
love,
Hops
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Hiya Hops:
Finally got a chance to read this whole thread and first, I want to acknowledge your feelings and say that when people close to us say or act insensitively, selfishly even, it seems normal to feel sad and hurt and not cared about. So your feelings seem pretty normal to me. So sorry for that pain, Hops.
A couple things struck me though, reading back on page 2, I think:
I used to refer to my D as "evidence of the god of getting one thing right." To see what we are now, I guess, feels like "evidence that I really have not done anything right." Anything that matters, anyway.
I do this to myself too Hoppy. Ha! When everything's perfect.....it's out of my hands but when stuff goes wrong.....it's gotta be my fault....right?
:shock: :shock:
People make choices. Your daughter makes them just like the rest of us. Much of what she chooses has nothing to do with you. She's an adult who is capable of behaving well because I bet my bottom dollar you taught her how to behave well...??? Therefore, when she gets grouchy and inconsiderate, is it God's doing or your doing or her doing??????
I think maybe she chooses and because she's human and fallible.....she doesn't always choose wisely. Not your fault. Not God's fault either eh?
So lift that weight off your shoulders and give you a break Hops.
Also, what you said about your D enjoying it so much when it was just the two of you struck a nerve in me too because I remember a similar time and know my kids want me to themselves and will do anything to get that. Maybe it's a normal longing they have after having that experience. AFter all, can we blame them?
And now that they're grown up.......we are still mothers. You will always be a mother (and a wonderful mother at that Hops!) no matter how old your D gets. Maybe children are always children, in a way too, and will always act out where they feel most safe?? Maybe they will always be less mature around the one parent they feel will love them regardless? I don't know. I was just thinking out loud there.
Also, you taking care of your mother might be something she doesn't think she'll be able to do? Maybe she resents you doing it because she doesn't think she will want to or be able to? Ofcourse, she really doesn't know how she will feel or what she is capable of until the time comes and things could be much different by then eh? But now, at this young age, maybe all she can see is you.....wasting your life.....being some kind of martyr......as her grandmother acts thankless and even nasty (in her view)? Maybe she criticizes because she cares and wants you to be free from all of that? And maybe a little selfish wanting you to herself to boot? 'Cause around you...she's still a kid?
Last thing Hops: Please don't allow yourself to feel responsible for so much. You aren't. You did all you can do (back on page one, you said something to that effect.......yep! I agree!!) and you are longing for an adult relationship, which is reasonable. The thing is....maybe she's just not mature enough yet for that? It may still happen Hops. Maybe for awhile yet, you just have to be the grown up, until she grows up a little bit more? She's an adult but not a fully mature one yet maybe?
(((((Hops)))))
Sela
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THANK YOU, Sela.
Yes to every one of your questions!
(And thanks especially for reminding me not to be responsible for everything.)
I am feeling more at peace now.
Partly because I'm at work, which is a happy and positive environment.
I do feel better.
I am enormously grateful to everyone here. I know that the biggest thing is that y'all have simply helped me handle my emotions. I needed a safe place, a soft shoulder (or a dozen), and you gave me this.
Your attention and your time and your effort to write are enormous gifts, acts of compassion and grace.
I am so very grateful.
love,
Hops
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Glad you're feeling better Hops.
Your courage in expressing your deep feelings and asking for support humbles me.
I missed about your job (must have missed reading about it). Yay!! A job where you feel at peace....a happy and positive environment!! Fabulous!! I'm sooo happy for you Hops!! Exactly what you deserve and what's gotta make life easier!! That's wonderful news!!
:D Sela
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Hops, Sela's post was so wonderful (and validating even to those of us not exactly in your predicament).
I know my kids are a lot younger, but I have to agree with Sela on one thing...while mine behave perfectly in school and around others... they do all their "testing" at home. I am glad that they save that for us... I think, like Sela said, that means they trust us to try out the behaviors and see hat the reaction will be.
(((((((hops))))))))))
Love, Beth
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Spent a lot of time in my car today doing various things and I was thinking about you, Hops. This is so good that you started this thread. There are many layers to what you are going through now with your daughter. One of the layers I was thinking about is what she brings to your relationship by virtue of the unique human being she is. And how it really isn't possible to keep blaming yourself for things from the past. Our children come to us complete. Sure, events and environment have an impact. But children have all the ingredients of a personality in them to start with. They are not a blank piece of paper.
Last fall we went to see our son in NYC. I don't know if I mentioned here something I learned during that visit. It was something that gave me a sense of relief. We spent about three days together. During that time I saw him do about six things that were pure Grampa Bill. My father who died a couple years ago. Who diagnosed himself as Asperger's Syndrome. When I saw my son doing things that my father did in life, mannerisms, speech patterns, reactions, it occurred to me that it might explain a lot about my son and about our very difficult relationship through most of his childhood.
Even when he was a baby, I noticed he did certain things that surprised me and were different from the other children his age. Troublesome things. And I thought it was because I was a bad mother. And actually I was a bad mother. I was a good teenage mother. But a very immature mother.
Anyway, he had/has a different way of looking at life, seeing things, behaving. And to see him 26 years later being just like my father--something clicked for me about it possibly being hard-wired. He spent very little actual time with my father over the years, yet they did have a connection.
What was good about seeing my father coming out of my son was that it occurred to me he is getting comfortable about who his is with all his quirks. He isn't keeping it under wraps like my father learned to do. My father didn't start being his real self until he was actively dying. I understand why he kept himself under wraps all his life. It is not safe or smart to be "weird". But what he missed by keeping his real self inside. What we all missed.
Okay, now I'm getting to the point.
You have mentioned that you fear your daughter has inherited her father's N-traits. I suppose that is possible. But maybe that doesn't matter so much what specific characteristics she has or has not inherited. Because she is who she is. Who she is is not your fault. Fault doesn't even enter into it. She has value in this world no matter what. You have value in this world no matter what. So does your mother and your ex-husband. This is a given. Navigating these relationships is the thing that needs solving.
When I saw this fall that my son is who he is, and always has been, I realized that I screwed up big time by thinking I had to assess and correct and assign blame. Didn't we talk about assigning blame on another thread? That is where I screwed up. Oh the unhappiness that attitude caused. Yes, I learned it in childhood from my parents, peers, neighborhood, school. Yes, yes, yes. But time to cut it out. Time to stop being tied to the past.
Assigning blame, taking on too much responsibility, this is harmful. This adds an extra burden to the relationship. Honesty is always good. But martyrdom is not good. And it is not necessary.
When I finally saw the light with my son this past fall, it was tempting to beat myself up about the wasted years of obsessing about my blame. But the insight I gained also showed me it would be wrong to worry and obsess about that. He doesn't dwell on blame. He is ready to go forward. Me too.
My suggestion is to look at who your daughter is with a new perspective and value what you see. She is herself. You are yourself. The relationship needs work. But who she is and who you are need no work at all. Only the work of acceptance.
It also occurs to me that this is easy for me to say. I'm seeing Aspergers in my son, not N. But I know your heart is big enough to value all the human beings in your life, N or not. And perhaps it will turn out that your daughter is just immature and hurting. I'd bet on that as a matter of fact. But with your generous spirit, I think you are open to whoever she turns out to be. It is just so very important to stop taking on blame and worry.
This is a great thread, Hops. I hope it continues to help you feel better.
Love, Pennyplant
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Wow, Penny,
What a wonderful post.
Love, Beth
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No kiddin', Beth.
Thank you, PP.
That was typed grace.
I agree and I'm encouraged!
Yes. I think my D and I can do it.
I just need better boundaries and that will help us both.
thanks for the amazing insights (yep, those genes are in there, I'm sure--and probably more than we have any idea about) ...
Sometimes I wish we could all interview all our ancestors. (Some at a safe distance.) :)
thank you again PP for such profound thought and grace and such clear expression,
you sent light.
love,
Hops
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Aw, you guys. You know, sometimes I think I'm out to lunch. I can't say stuff like that to just anybody!!! One of the many things I love about this place......
And now a round of hugs, my treat:
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Pennyplant
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((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))
You are loved.
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Wow! Penny! That brought peace to my soul.
Thankyou from me too. What a wonderful post!
:D Sela
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Hops,
I feel honoured to be able to respond to your posts.......at whatever level. I find you so solid and generous with your thoughts and wisdom and just want to acknowledge that.
On kids.
I have a son, 22. He is a lovely young man. He went through a hard time when his sisster died. Smoked a lot of pot, stayed up all night watching tv and slept all day. I was patient and as kind as I could be but I saw that it was going nowhere. I was also aware that he did not get the time and attention he deserved in his life from me. For that I am truly regretful. I feel he was at the receiving end of some harsh parenting from me and he was only a little boy. I have talked to him about this. I have apologised and tried to show him I love and respect him. His response is usually, get over it Mum, I have!
About boundaries. One day when he was in his bad phase, I told him he needed to get a job since he had dropped out of college. he agreed. I said he had to let me know if he needed money a day before he asked for it so that I could organise it and discuss it etc. He and I both broke this boundary many mnay times. And one day I thought I have to change something here we are going around in circiles.
I took him to the city early one morning so that he could look for a job. As he was getting out of the car he asked for money. I told him I had none. He pointed out that he had no breakfast, I said, I know but I did call you in time for breakfast but you choose not to get up. He got out of the car, slammed the door with rage and set off. I had arranged to pick him up at four in the afternoon. I knew he had no money. I knew he was hungry. I went to work and felt terrible all day. I was in bits. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done.
I picked him up at four and bought him food. He was angry with me for days but it changed things. He never forgot to give me notice and discussed with me any need for money he had. He learned about respect because I had painfully enforced a boundary. From then on he took me seriously, something huge changed for us. He realised that I loved him, was happy to help him but I deserved some respect from him and I deserved to be heard.
Three years on, we are ok. He has asked me for help with things and I have been happy to help. He is very independant but is open to listening to me as he knows I have his best interest at heart. This does not mean that he takes advice from me..... remember I am his Mom.
I too have learned that it is his life. He has choosen not to go to college I must respect this. I feel he is underachieving in his work but that is my feeling, he enjoys what he does. I have learned a lot from him and feel blessed that he has taught me much about love, myself and the universe
axa
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Axa,
I have a 20-year-old son. He has been expressing is feelings about college and how he is thinking of quitting.
I just about had a heart attack. He is in his 2nd year right now. He really never liked it.
He does really well in school so it’s not his grades. I asked him what the problem was. Is it the college he goes to?
He spoke about joining the service. He had always spoken about it all through his high school years. He spoke about the coast guard. I on the other hand kept redirecting him back to college.
I sat one day and really listened to him. I told him that he needs to do what he wants to do. If he feels that college is not his thing then maybe he has to follow his heart. I want him to be happy and college is not for everyone. He said mom, Im only 20. I can finish college. I will finish college cause it is something I want to do but maybe not just now.
I don’t want to smother him and make him feel guilty if he decides to leave. . It is not my life it is his. I want him to be happy with what he does. I don’t want him to ever feel later on that he missed out on his hopes, his dreams or his adventures just so he could make me happy and out of guilt. I told him I would never be disappointed with whatever decision he was to make. I just want the best for him. He has a really good head on his shoulders and does things with a lot of thought put into it.
Hee! My baby has become a man yet my little boy still comes back sometimes. He called me last night. Mommy, I cut my leg snowboarding. Are you ok, I don’t know? It’s bleeding. How big is the cut? It’s pretty big. Do you think you need stitches? I don’t know, do you? Would you like me to look at it? I guess. He didn’t get stitches, he got staples and whined and made ew noises all through it. The doctors couldn’t stop laughing.
The college thing has not been spoken of lately. When he makes his decision he will come to me to tell me what it is. I will wait and respect his struggle over what he wants to do and where he wants to be then I will support him with whatever it is.
Love Deb
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Sorry
debizzle is me debkor. I use debizzle as an email and sometimes I mix up my name here.
Sorry,
You know I'm 50 now so I forget alot. heh,
Forgive me.
Deb
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dEb,
I think this is real loving. Listening, hearing, advising but not controlling. They are little boys in mens shoes sometimes. My son called lately he and his gf broike up. He just wanted me to know he was really sad. I loved that he did this. Told him I know it hurts like hell and it feels horrible. He wanted me to hear his pain and loss. They were together a short time but it still hurt. I am so proud that he called me.
I think there is something about respect and trusting that the work and love we have put into our children will support them in their lives. I know my son is a loving, respectful, kind young man and for that I am sooooooooooo proud of him. I have seen him help people XN's son for instant when he did not have to . He is a softie, not too much of one I hope but he does seem to have a good sense of himself. People always say to me that they love to meet with him because he always seems so pleased to see them. He is a big hugger, age does not matter to him, old ladies, men, gfs, kids......... I love how tactile he is.
Boy do I feel proud
axa
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Wow, you should be proud Axa.
How lovely lovely lovely that your boy is who he is.
He sounds just wonderful.
I love warmhearted people with open arms.
Bless ya both.
Hops
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Hops,
You are a very smart person. You are witty, funny, kind, to the point, teacher, I could go on an on.
Your post make me smile, laugh, think, feel, remember, your just an all around great person. There is so much to you. It is never ending you always have something to give.
Love Deb