Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: DivineSunshine on February 09, 2007, 02:59:48 PM
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I try and I try and I try to fathom how they justify the treatment of others that they dish out. How they allow someone in their life to be their slave and their victim. Mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
I just keep thinking they will have a heart.
I would. You would. What are they missing? And they KNOW better because they can' turn it off and on very well for different people and situations.
So how do they live with themselves? HOW? That is probably the most maddening thing about it, for me. I just shake my head, geez, maybe WE are the ones who are not normal. We...who have a conscience and a moral code and decency. Sometimes I think kind, thoughtful, pleasant, selfless people are a minority.
Sometimes I wonder......
If I wasn't so bizarre, I wouldn't be affected by this behavior. I know this isn't right, but......
HOW do they think this is OK?????? I couldn't live with myself.
Yikes!
Namaste & Peace--------really!
Sunny 8)
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SUNNY
jac's thread
Healing with love helped me a lot in understanding others and how to get unhooked from n's.
IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND UNKINDNESS.
Taking care of you first can make it all fall into place. 8)
Blessings
moonlight
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The beginning of the recovery process is when you become conscious of the fact that you have been abused by a Narcissist and come to the realization that you do not deserve to be abused.
The next step is to let go of your compulsive endeavours to 'cure' the Narcissist, and give up your hope that your parent or partner will be miraculously changed into the loving, empathic and caring person that you want him or her to be. You have most likely been trying to bring about this dream for a long long time, and it is not easy to come to the point of letting it go. The golden rule is that if what you have been doing hasn't achieved your goal you need to stop doing it... that is logical and sensible.
Sunny,
Copied the above of 'Recovery' thread ......... Moon has given good advice, you really do need to start care of you first, give yourself compassion and love, because you are valuable, to yourself, and your children.
Thinking of you.
Love,
Leah xx
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Leah and Moonlight,
Well said, you two, well said. I am working on me. One step forward two back sometimes. It's like walking a tightrope and fighting battles on all sides here daily. And trying to give myself a manicure and hold my own hand. But I won't give up. It is a battle worth fighting. I can finally say that. Without wondering if I am an N.
I was just reading Jung and he said he first decided to get into psychiatric work when he heard someone call it a "personality disease". A good term, I think.
But it misses the mark because the modern interpretation of disease is something that one can do nothing about essentially. I still can't see how they have no control over this nonsense.
I read Sam V the other day, and he said something like...we hate them because they have a choice and they choose to hurt us. We can't hate a tornado, it is bad, but it was a mindless act of nature. But we can hate a villian because we know they had a choice and chose rotten stinking behavior.
Anyway, anyone ever try the display a picture of yourself as a child technique for finding love and compassion for yourself? Sounds like it may be a good idea since I know that is where my deficiency in those areas began.
Namaste,
Sunny
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Dearest Divine Sun,
You are saying the very things that I am going over and over in my head today. I can tell you all the right answers, but my heart is in very bad shape over this nonetheless. It is a terrible betrayal and the Ns set out to destroy us just as they were destroyed. I am convinced that they act out the drama of their soul murder on their partner in the devaluation phase.
I will NEVER understand these Ns!
« on: Today at 02:59:48 PM »
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I try and I try and I try to fathom how they justify the treatment of others that they dish out. How they allow someone in their life to be their slave and their victim. Mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
AWWWWWWWW ((((((((Divine Sun)))))))))
You were caught by a very big shark who had no place in their brain for mercy or compassion. The harder you tried, the LESS you got. If you distanced yourself the punishment was worse. There is no winning. There is NOTHING you could have done. I bet you tried heroically in every way. You gave everything and it was not enough. This is not good for our psyches and the helplessness and powerlessness is devastating. That means we start to disappear, to be less, to doubt ourselfves, to squash our blessed intuition. We are under a powerful delusion that is like a drug. The delusion is that the false self is the Good, wounded puppy, brilliant, loving partner who will love us till the day they die. Very powerful stuff. Ns will say ANYTHING to get you hooked. They circle and circle at your beck and call and cling and sing your praises until you are good and hooked. And then they systematically take control of you body, mind and spirit. There is no corner of your being that is not under attack in an insidious and very clever onslaught of power takeover. You are like an electrical plant to them. They need your power to liive. They will do whatever it takes to get all your power. Including giving you back your power sometimes.
I just keep thinking they will have a heart.
((((((((((((((((Divine Heart)))))))))))))))))))
This is the saddest things I can imagine for you. It is heartbreaking to hear you say this. Anyone else who was normal and not completely destroyed to the point where they became a Narcissist would have a heart. A heart is probably really called for in your situation.
All day today I have been fighting the impulse to phone N and beg him to have a heart. I know what he will say, " You force me to go. I was desperate so I reached out for the other woman." If I say to him that he did not pay rent or help with food or expenses for years he will have a big tantrum and just hang up.
But still nearly every molecule in my body wants to have acknowlegment and love from him. This did not work in the past and it won't work now. It is not enough to just think this. It is a conscious effort like climbing a mountain. I will not phone and beg him to have a heart. HE DOES NOT HAVE ONE.
I would. You would. What are they missing? And they KNOW better because they can' turn it off and on very well for different people and situations.
They are missing plenty. They had a series of traumas that finallly turned them into deperate predators. They are desperate. They cannot be alone and they have to have supply. And every supply will get it in the end. It sometimes takes years because people hand on.
So how do they live with themselves? HOW? That is probably the most maddening thing about it, for me.
They don't live with themselves because no one is in there. They are reflections of who they are with mostly. That is their problem. They can invent a wonderful character and play it to the hilt in order to win you over. Imagine if you would do ANYTHING to make someone fall in love with you. ANYTHING. Be anybody they wanted. You can get someone to be crazy, mad and panting after you too. Tell em anything they want to hear ( and inside if you are an N part of you is going teee heee heee I'm winning, now I can get what I want from this person )
I just shake my head, geez, maybe WE are the ones who are not normal. We...who have a conscience and a moral code and decency. Sometimes I think kind, thoughtful, pleasant, selfless people are a minority.
Yep, I feel abnormal too. All these messy, freaked out emotions. All this indignation and heartache and jealousy. All these sleepless nights, panic attacks, flashbacks, loss of trust, withdrawl from life. Meanwhile, he is looking good. Moving on, shaking his head and telling everyone that I am insane. The poor man, how he suffered. He does seem to be thriving with new supply lady. Trips to Mexico, new clothes,new life, new love, new big house and no rent again whoopeeedoooo.
However, in two years I will be so strong from this and will have lived through pain I never thought I could survive for one day. He will still be a shark. There will be others who are maimed for life.
Sometimes I wonder......
If I wasn't so bizarre, I wouldn't be affected by this behavior. I know this isn't right, but......
I believe that too. If I was strong and centred I would not get sucked in. You have hit the nail on the head there. There is tremendous shame and regret and helplessness. That is how people feel who are hit by tornadoes too. This is an emotional disaster.
HOW do they think this is OK?????? I couldn't live with myself.
Well they think it is better than ok. To them it is a success they can chalk up. That is the game.
I hope you can live with yourself now. I hear a lot of pain coming from you. In writing it out you are helping me name the horror of this experience. Thank you. We will help each other through it. It is no small potatoes.
Intellectually I can answer your questions, but that only helps a little. Knowing that I am not the only fool helps me more. Helping each other through the pain is one step further. I am starting to really love the fools here. They have heart and it is beautiful. The fact that you still have your heart and it hurts is beautiful.
The N couldn't see it or know it. But the rest of us can. What a miracle, eh?
Much love to you,
Sea storm
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Oh Boy!! I tried to reason with my nmom today. NO reasoning with her. Delusional is the only word I can find that describes her at all. No matter how many times I plead my case, rationally she tries to reason with me irrationally. After all the time I have put in to distance myself from her, set boundaries with her, etc. she still leads the conversation down her primrose path "suggesting" I do this or telling me I "should" do that. It has almost gotten comical. I mean, I could truly laugh in her face with her lunacy!
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I ssssoooooooooo agree with what everone has written here.
I know what it's like to try to fathom the N: WHY??? HOW??? I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THEM!!!!!!
So, at this point in my "recovery" I think there's 2 aspects to dealing with Ns:
The 1st is the "why" and "how". This is a frustrating aspect because we can NEVER (thank G-D) really be able to understand "why" and "how" the N behaves.
The 2nd aspect is "How do I deal with it?".
Having read oddles and doodles of books on Ns and FOO dysfunction, I am now more focased on the 2nd aspect of "How do I deal with it?". The 2nd aspect of "How do I deal with it?" is MUCH MORE FRUITFUL and REWARDING than the 1st aspect of "why" and "how".
"How do I deal with it?" is within our control and we can improve our lives by focasing on this. The aspect of "why" and "how" is interesting and can explain N behavior, but, we can't control anyone else's behavior, we can only control our own.
For me, at this point, I leave the "why" and "how" of the N to G-D.
I didn't make the "why" and "how" of the N,
I can't fix the "why" and "how" of the N,
so I leave the "why" and "how" of the N to G-D and to the shrinks & PHds.
Nonetheless, I totally understand that we need to go thru the "why" and "how" stage as we recover from the damage inflicted by the N.
I just have reached the stage where I don't give a damn about the "why" and "how". There's nothing I can do about the "why" and "how".
I think that there are 3 main keys to the "How do I deal with it?" stage and they are:
1. imposing healthy boundaries
2. listening to the voice within, our subconscious, and
3. Never ignoring Red Flags
Whatever stage you are at in your recovery, know that it's a journey with many lessons along the way.
love,
dazed
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I Think they are so detatched they dont let them selves feel .Most likely big trauma in past.I Have finally walked away from my abusive past Only learned to use pc lately. DOVE.
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Sun, hon.
Time you shine some like light on your poor sore self.
[on edit: well that was an interesting "Freudian sleep" as a friend of mine once said! :) Well, I meant them both!]
Your inner life force will respond.
You'll find your way free with the same force the little green shoot uses to crack through the concrete.
(((((Sunny))))
(Never mind namaste. Or...just namaste him from a nice strong legal distance?)
Hops
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Welcome, Dove.
What a huge step to learn the PC.
You've walked away from your abusive past.
That's huge.
Will be glad to hear more from you.
Plenty of room here for PC amateurs and blitz-typists too!
Hopalong
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I think when we're in the midst of recovery we try and understand the "how" and the "why" of Ns.
But later after we've put a few months and miles behind us, those aspects lose their importance.
Somebody once asked George Leigh Mallory why he wanted to climb Mount Everest. "Because its there" was his famous reply.
The thing our healing helps us come to terms with is Ns are just "there". Like a mountain, they're hard and cold and they don't change and they are devoid of feeling.
The how or why they are this way doesn't matter in the long run; that's between them and God. The trick is either going around or over them while still living our life. Going over them is not without risk, Mallory died on Everest after all, but sometimes we don't have a choice. Going around them is usually the better but longer path. Once they're shrinking in our rear view mirror the whys and hows seem to shrink and disappear with them. They are what they are and thank goodness we aren't. The only thing worse than being near one is being one.
mud
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Mud,
always a treat to hear your perspective.
Yes, sometimes we have to go over (as opposed to around) the N because we have no choice.
Eventually, as one progresses thru recovery, the N does shrink in the rear view mirror. I love that image, Mud. We drive away from the N , leaving them behind and they fade, disappear into the horizon.
An yes, two of the biggest revelations to learn about an N is to thank the Lord we are not an N and to stay far away from one.
dazed
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It's been 5 years, come June, since I left the N/P. I try to not talk much about him now, as he never really existed as a person. When I could relate to, that charming man who came into my life, IT as nothing more that a puff of smoke--no substance, no character, I was well on my way to healing from him. (Then I began my search into myself.)
What did exist was the evil creature behind the mask, and in retrospect, I see that IT had no conscience. IT was after my money. IT never got any. IT raged and raged with anger, whether drunk or sober. IT was destructive of it's and my personal property.
When I left, IT said, "This is rather sudden, isn't it?" --after 4½ years?--sudden?
IT tried to hang on as IT needed a bookkeeper. I dissolved our partnership business and left him to the Governmnet and bankruptcy!
Aren't I cruel?
Izzy
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Izzy, not cruel, strong.
Pennyplant
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HI SUN....
NOW NOW DONT BE SAYIN NEVER...
UNLESS IT BE TO VENT YOUR SPLEEN SO TO SPEAK :)
SPLEEN CONDITION IN CHINESE MEDICINE WHERE
one's mind gets stuck goin in circles tryin to figure somethin out...
lets see what might help get a grip on narcisisits
first perhaps a distinction or continuum between narciissits and malignant narcissist...
both desire to work the system for personal success
at the lower level of narcissist
they tend more to be unconscious of the nature of grandious self entitlement
as they need a sense of innocence by not recognizing their methods
but when it moves to malignant narcissism such as psychopath or sadist...
then they ......
well time and my mind figits tiempus whatever that latin phrase is..
so later more on malignant narcissism
and how it differs and yet both can be exasperating...
as methinks you feel exasperated at tiems trying to figure out narcissism...
hmm i think this paste from a site might help
NARCISSISM...It manifests aggressive, paranoid, and borderline characteristics, but more commonly appears in the form of envy, greed, power lust, an extensively rationalized sense of entitlement, and a pathological grandiose self. Unlike psychopaths, narcissists can experience loyalty and guilt; but like psychopaths, narcissists lack empathy or caring for others, viewing people as "playthings" to be used. Female narcissists tend to be the kind that "sleep" their way to the top; male narcissists tend to get ahead by becoming involved in massive power struggles. Psychologists suspect that the cause of narcissism is severe mental or physical pain in childhood at the hands of a powerful, idealized mother-father figure. Inconsistent parental attitudes on aggression and self-assertion as well as childhood experiences of being valued for specific, precocious talents seem to be the prime determinants. They never learned who to identify with -- the aggressor or victim, and they developed a pragmatic philosophy of siding with winners, regardless of who was in the right or wrong. In fact, they believe that the "good" is usually changeable and fickle while "bad" is stable and predictable. They live life by idealizing those who satisfy their narcissistic needs and systematically devaluing and denigrating those who do not. Underneath their superficial charm, they feel they have a right to control, manipulate, exploit, and be cruel to others.
THERE ALSO IS A TOPIC IN THIS FORUM ON GUILT VERSUS SHAME THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL...
BUT A KEY ASPECT I THINK
IS THE QUESTION OF INNOCENCE...
WELL AS SAID TEMPUS FUGUS? FIGITS :) GOOD LUCK THAR
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HI CB123 AND SUN
IN REGARDS TO MY LAST POST THAR...
AS YOU MIght be able to tell i like to mix what methinks
intense serious with a bit of levity and tongue in cheek...
first to mind be somethin bout where i had mentioned n's
as seeking success...
well sun, u all mighta heard how n's way to success has as an aspect that
methinks is one of the major markers of narcissists and maliignant narcissists[mainly psychopaths, methinks]
namely, being bold by blocking major issues of self doubt and finding clever ye, even ingenious ways of
doubting others and bringing others into doubt of themselves for having doubted the narcissist
who sees themselves and open and honest and sincere
which tho methinks be not the case with malignant narcissists
as they know full well they are hiding dirty tricks that they would mess their plans up ifn discovered.....
what i had pasted in my last email form a site on the narcissist-psychopathic spectrum by 0'connor
might me helpful here..namely:
Unlike psychopaths, narcissists can experience loyalty and guilt; but like psychopaths, narcissists lack empathy or caring for others, viewing people as "playthings" to be used.
NOW THE THING IS THAT A NARCISSIST MIGHT THINK OF THEMSELVES AD HAVING EMPATHY
WHICH IS SO ER DARN FRUSTRATIN AS TO HOW THEY DONT SEE THAT THEY OFTEN LACK IT...
WHERE THE PSYCHOPATH[MALIGNANT NARCISSIST] TAKES JOY IN HIS SKILL
IN HURTING OTHERS AND MAKE OTHERS DOUBT THEMSELVES..
WHEREAS THE NARCISSIST MIGHT ENJOY IT BUT ONLY WHEN
SOMEONE HAS NOT BOUGHT INTO THEIR WONDERFUL AS IF CARING IMAGE OF THEMSELVES
AND ARE A THREAT TO WHAT THE NARCISSIST THINGS IS THEIR REAL WONDERFUL SELF...
WHERE THE PSYCHOPATH IS NOT TRYING TO SELL A WONDERFUL SELF IMAGE
THAT THEY BELIEVE IN AS PRESENTED...
HERE IN THIS FORUM I FIND THAT OFTEN THIS DISTINCTION IS NOT MADE
AND CAN LEAD TO SOME CONFUSION IN UNDERSTANDING NARCISSISTS...
NOW AS TO
SINCE TIME IS FIDGETING TEMPUS FUGIT
AS MUCH AS IN MY LAST POST :)
NOW AS TO WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO...
HOW BOTH ARE RELATED AND YET DIFFER
IN WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO....
HMMM
METHINKS AS ALL NEUROSIS AND PSYCHOSIS IT COMES FROM A KIND OF SURVIVAL MODE
NOW THE SCHIZOID TYPE OF SURVIVAL MODE IS A TENDENCY TO ESCAPE INTO IDEALISTIC OTHER WORLDLY SENSE OF SECURITY
BUT THE PSYCHOPATH IS THE OPPOSITE METHINKS
NAMELY
TO HAVE POWER AND SUCCESS IN TERMS OF THE REAL RIGHT NOW WORLD...
AND THEY CAN BECOME VERY GOOD AT READING THE PRESENT WORLD
WHERE POWER IS AND WHERE WEAKNESSES ARE
IN TERMS OF OTHERS
BUT NOT IN TERMS OF THEIR OWN HIDDEN INNER THOUGHTS AND DOUBTS...
THAT MIGHT WEAKEN HANDLING THE IMMEDIATE ENVIRONMENT SUCCESSFULLY
WITH A FAIR AMOUNT OF SHOW AND BRAVADO...
CRUSHING ANYONE WHO DOUBTS THEM
AND THEY CAN HAVE CLEVER LONG TERM PLANS
HOW TO DO IT
AND WHAT IS FRUSTRATING ABOUT THE NARCISSIST
IS HOW GOOD THEY ARE AT DOING IT BUT MUCH OF THIS MANIPULATION
IS DONE ON THE SUBCONSCIOUS LEVEL SO THAT THEY CAN KEEP THEIR WONDERFUL SELF IMAGE
THEY REALLY BELIEVE IN THEMSELVES AND WOULD LIKE TO HAVE OTHERS ACCEPT...
WHERE THE MALIGNANT NARCISSIST KNOWS THE PROBLEMS IF OTHERS KNEW THEIR METHODS..
ONCE AGAIN WHAT CAN MAKE IT FRUSTRATING TO GET A GRIP ON NARCISSISM
IS NOT TO RECOGNIZE THE ABOVE DISTINCTION....
UHOH METHINKS THAT OLE MIND AND TIME FIDGITS OR FUGITS .... IS HERE
SO LATER GATOR:)
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Oh the How and the Why
I too have struggled with this and still do.
Bottom line. You are nothing other than supply and a thing to project their hatred onto.
You are not a person, you do not have feelings, you do not have a heart. You are like a chair/table/object.
They do NOT care. It is very hard to understand this but I believe this is the truth. What you suffer is irrevelant. How their children suffer means nothing. They are insatiable, they want and want and want and if you stop giving or a better supply appears they move on.
We were part of their drug and when we stopped being the drug they have gone elsewhere to find more drugs.
They have an ability to start each day new with no introspection about what damage they have caused.
They are cold empty vessels looking to be filled up.
Sometimes with XN I used to think he was not human. I feel that still. He lacks humanity. To know you are nothing to them is hard but also may be the way out.
axa
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Axa,
I actually noticed my NH try to make himself show empathy yesterday, when he realized I was watching something on the news that was incredibly sad, and tears came to my eyes, he had no reaction really. But he saw me, so when he changed to another news channel and saw the exact same report, he made sure he put in all the correct emotions---for show, of course.
When he watched an earlier version of the same tragic story the other night, he was only concerned and mad because they broke into his TV show to tell about it. I didn't used to notice this stuff. I do now and I get frustrated because I want to call out him on it, but I know he will not get it--- or rage.
I want to call him out because he denies being un-empathetic and self-involved and has asked me to prove it! No thanks, I don't need the extra drama you pour on to defend yourself. Just keep thinking you are perfect, dear.
The way his mind works is amazing really. Sad, but amazing. Now he is just like my 7th child. He is worse then my two-year old.
Then, we watch a sad movie that made him comment (for show) that he is worried about our middle daughter, because she is so worried about him trying to move out again when he rages. Which he has done a lot lately. She is very nervous nowdays. I realize soon he just brought it up to keep me in check to I make sure I won't upset him again. I am stupid enough for a moment to think he really wants to discuss our daughter and I agree she is very troubled and she has been for quite a while due to pressures in our life since she was born which have made both of us tense and is finally taking its toll on our marriage.
In his true-to-form Nism, his "concern" for her and the heart-to-heart discussion I am foolish enough to try to foster with him is turned immediately into a pit party for him. He becomes sullen and pouty at 1 AM and begins to moan about what a failure HE is and how bad that makes him feel. Waaa waaa waa. I, as usually console him, now I just want to get to sleep since the conversation is pointless. So I feed his stupid little N ego enough ...well, lies.......and while I am talking----HE FALLS ASLEEP! Like a baby with a bottle!
I wanted to kick him right out from his slumber just for being such an idiot. And putting me through this and pretending to care! And I wanted to shake my self back into reality for actually thinking he CARED about her! He gets me with that one frequently. He actually tried to get me to fall apart on him earlier in the evening and I wouldn't, so I guess he used the kids for bait, so he could draw me in to give him compliments. Unbelievable!
But as you said, we are just tables, chairs, etc. They will use us to fill up their empty selves. His family who tries to love and adore him are his drug. Lovely. :? And he claims he isn't addicted to anything.
It is all for show! :evil:
Good luck to all who are dealing with these people----you MUST be incredibly strong!
Sunny
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Oh, oh , I forgot to tell you all.
I don't know how I forgot this.
Anyway, you all know my exN was in jail for a long time. I have not heard or spoke to him oh in about 14 years.
A few months ago I got a call from a New York area code.
I answered it and they asked for my ex. I thought this is really odd and got paranoid.
I told them he didn't live here ever. They said OK and hung up before I could ask anything else.
I got another call about 2 weeks later. Same thing asking for him.
This time I said why are you calling my house he does not live here he never did.
What is it you want? They said they could not tell me it is personal business.
I demanded that they identify themselves since they were calling my home.
They would not. They did say although. You are on the contact list that you can be contacted.
I said who put me on a contact list. They said he did. I said when? they said a year ago.
Almost fainted. This is how I found out he was out of jail
They did not tell me who they were but I got the feeling they were bill collectors. You know how you have to list friends and family if you get a loan in case the loan company is looking for you. He put me down.
OMG, after all these years how nuts is that!!!
I wonder why though? Gives me the hebe gebies.
What was he up to now?
Love Deb
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My mom told me once that she wished I was dead. She said that if I died her pain would stop. I will never understand. That is only one of the thousand things that she has told me. I felt abandoned all my life. Despite that my mom was always a good provider, and I never lacked food or roof. Until now she always tells me ugly things. I will never understand why.
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Welcome to Dove and Desire!!!!!! Looking forward to hearing more about and from you!!
I always think I get past the question why... but then it returns to me. You know, she justiufies everything (as if she knows what she does is wrong). I remember growing up and hearing "A parent always loves one child more than another." I think she read it or heard it somewhere. You know, having my own children, I just don't believe that is true.
And, I think it was Deb or Sunny that mentioned copying emotions. Isn't that creepy? They see how others react and copy it... and sometimes it isn't quite right. Or they go overboard... or use it in the wrong context. It is like a child trying out vocabulary...
I am having a rough few days of "why...."
Love to all of you,
Beth
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Dear Lupita:
I am so very sad to read this. I don't understand it either:
My mom told me once that she wished I was dead. She said that if I died her pain would stop. I will never understand. That is only one of the thousand things that she has told me. I felt abandoned all my life.
It occurs to me that you are wise to say this: I will never understand.
I don't think you owe this tragic husk of a mother any more of your precious life, trying to hard to understand something that is really just like a cruel accident of nature: sometimes there just is never, not ever, a satisfactory explanation for something savage and empty. But we know that savage and empty things do exist in nature.
Sometimes I think we try desperately to see all human beings as something different than nature. Always redeemable, always changeable. As though somehow, some way, every deepest question CAN find an answer.
I have found some peace in painful areas of my life letting go of craving an answer. It is almost the only way to release yourself from emotional torture.
I hope very much for you that you will find the kindest, gentlest human beings you can, even if it's an old gentle nun...to be with, to tak to, and to share this pain.
There really does come a point, if you share it enough to exhaust the telling, when the pain will lift from you.
And then, one day, you will be an older but very wise woman, who gives love...a lot of it, because you know better than most human beings what it is like to live as a child without it.
Your sad and desperate childhood with a mother who was not a mother does not close you out of the possibility of human happiness. You have hope. You have a good mind. You have a persistence, even in sadness...
Maybe at some point the question could change for you, from Why could my mother not love me? To...how do I learn to love myself? I am allowed to learn this!
And then, who around me needs love? What will I do in the world that is real, that welcomes all the love and work I have to contribute?
Just thoughts, but I hope they help you, Lupita.
Sleep well and cozy,
Hops
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Lupita,
Hops is right. Some things you just can't understand.
When you are a kid, you feel as though your mom must have some good reason for saying that. You're just a little girl, and you are supposed to depend on your mother to tell you who you are and how the world works. But your mom didnt do that. What she said didnt tell you about who you are. It did give you a glimpse into the darkness in her soul.
I see you fighting your way to the light, Lupita--kinda shaking off all that clingy, sticky darkness as you go. Even in the last couple of days, I see you fighting your way loose from some of it. Keep fighting.
Your mom lied to you, Lupita--her pain has nothing to do with you. It is just one more sticky, dark thing that you will shake off.
We're glad you are here. We are grateful that you live!
CB
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Sunny,
The think that helped me understand the N's was by looking into their childhood and realizing one simple thing: the receptors (wires, if you will) that would have caused N, as a child, to learn empathy, sympathy, caring, responsibility acceptance, ability to delay their gratification, etc, just NEVER GOT CONNECTED. N's are like machines, robots, that can only mimic what they see, and spit out what has been programmed into them. If you learn about them, you will note that they respond with ROTE RESPONSES. They are very predictable in many cases, always responding with some cruel, manipulative comment or another, and always seeming to shock others who are not prepared for their TACTLESSNESS.
An N is the only person I know who, when you wake them up in the middle of the night, by a phone call, saying "oh, I'm sorry I disturbed you..." will say "yeah you DID, but what do you want?" (Most people with tact would say "oh that's ok, is everything all right?")
or how about:
me: "how do you like this dress on me?"
N: "great if you are auditioning for the part of porky pig"
Tactful: "that dress is nice, but maybe you could try one that enhances your features a bit more"
N's tend to "say what everyone else is really thinking" and they do it A LOT! Most people were taught to be TACTFUL and SAVE FACE in how they talk with others...the N MISSED THAT LESSON OBVIOUSLY.
You most likely wouldn't say to a child: "I'm busy and your ugly face is making me sick while I'm putting my makeup on. Can't you just go play or something?"
You might say: "honey, Mommy's busy now. As soon as I get my makeup on, we'll go do something together, ok?"
You most likely wouldn't say: "Sit up straight and tuck your shirt in...their are big NAMES here at this conference and you are making me look bad. You don't want to make Mommy lose this account, now do you?"
You might say: "Honey, let's tuck your shirt in and hope Mommy can nail this account, hehe, right?"
You most likely wouldn't say: "Don't mess with those vases. YOU DON'T WANT TO GET HURT NOW, DO YOU?"
You might say: "Don't mess with those vases. I don't want you to get hurt, dear."
N's tend to make your decisions for you, right in front of you ESPECIALLY THEIR CHILDREN:
I've heard at my restaurant, an N parent TELLING THEIR CHILD WHAT THAT CHILD WANTS TO EAT, EVEN AFTER THE CHILD ASKED FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
child: "I want the burger." "Oh, you DON"T WANT THAT. (to me) "He'll have the hot dog" (to child) "they don't have anymore burgers, honey."
what a TRIP! Makes me want to scream at that parent out of my own "need to control" at times. LET THE POOR CHILDREN HAVE A MIND OF THEIR OWN. ALLOW THEM TO INDIVIDUATE, dang it!
~Laura