Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on February 20, 2007, 05:53:44 PM
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I have 170 students. 160 give me a lot of satisfaction. There are ten that are a pain in the neck. Disruptive, lazy, disobedient, disrespectful. They are rich kids who have never had to sacrifice anything. On top of it, since I work in a private school, they need the kids, they don’t want the kids to take their money somewhere else. It is hard for me because they cause some good kids to follow their lied. The point is that, despite that I have many good students, these ten are enough to make me feel bad, sad, depressed, and incapable to motivate those 10 rotten 17, 18, years old, lazy, little pricks. The assistant principal does not help me. I have no parent support from those. I come home and feel lonely, abandoned, knowing that cannot retire until I am 65. I am 51 now and very tired. So, on top of my family problems I do not like my job, because I cant focus on the 160 good, but on the 10 bad that ruin my day. I do not want to believe a fantasy that tomorrow everything will be better. That is not true. I would like to know something real that can help me feel better. I feel so sad . How I would like to change careers. I hate teaching high school, they are smart asses, again, not all just 10 of the 170. Being disrespected everyday makes me feel so down. I wish these kids change schools, signe out of my class, go to another state. But that is not going to happen and I have to deal with them every day until the end of the year. I am counting. Please, God, help me survive. I feel very powerless. The worst is when the assistant principal who does not have to teach these kids every single day looks at you and gives you this look of how stupid you are. She never gives you any recognition, and sits at her office administrating who knows what. Having an ungrateful boss is very depressing, lowering self esteem, and provoking this feeling of abandonment.
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hi Lupita
I think I would ignore the 10 and look after the the 160, until the 10 complain of no attention.
What about the Principal of the school? What does he say?
Izzy
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Thank you ISI.
The principal says that I have to be more creative. I am creative, believe me. But there are students that are just impossible. Why does it make me feel so sad!!!!
He says that I am the adult, that they are the kids. But these kids are legal adults also. At that age I had to work. They dont. They know right and wrong. They drive wonderful cars. Their allowance is bigger than my salary. I even have to take the trash out in this school. And these ten leave trash for me to pick up. They know I need my job and they know their parents have moeny and control.
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After a bad day I have to go cry on my pillow since I do not have a shoulder. Good night. It seems like home. Just like home.
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Lupita, your situation is something I have some experience with but I have found it very hard to solve. When a problem is wrapped up in one's personal issues from childhood on, which sounds like what might be happening with you, then it takes a lot of digging. Even then it is not easy to detach. Which would be helpful in this case. Detachment on your part. Especially since it sounds like these kids have picked up on how they make you feel and are rubbing it in even more. This would drive me up the wall, frankly.
I wonder what other options you have for employment in your field. Would you need more schooling to move to a public school? Not that you wouldn't find troublesome kids there. But at least the wealth part of it would be less pervasive. Do you have other certifications that would allow you to change the grade level or subjects you teach?
Probably you have already wracked your brain on this issue. But I guess I would try one more time to see if there is a way for you to work somewhere else. I have always been one to quit when I was burned out. Now I have finally learned to have options that are more intermediate. I put myself on the transfer list recently and may have better options by the end of the year. I don't fool myself into thinking that a different office will have no problems. I do think I can find a healthier environment, though, and that is worth making a change if one is offered to me. For you, maybe it doesn't have to be a complete career change if you're afraid of that. Maybe younger kids would be more receptive. Maybe different administrators would be more supportive. That sure makes a difference! My current managers don't support me and that also makes me want to leave. The thing is that just knowing I can leave if I want takes off some the pressure. Not feeling so trapped now.
It's really sad that money can buy a cooperative set of educators. Those parents better be prepared to support their spoiled kids on into adulthood since they have taught their children to expect that mom and dad can buy them privileges.
It's really too bad, Lupita, that they are so disrespectful. You don't deserve that. (((((((((((((((Lupita))))))))))))))))
Pennyplant
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Hi Lupita,
I know exactly where you are coming from... and I bet the parents of those ten kids are assholes. I had a few like that and they do manage to get under your skin, no matter how well you do with the others, how much progress you are making.
I taught in Italy at a private school and you want to talk about mini-assholes and their parents. OH MY. Teaching is rough and you are a wonderful person for doing it as long as you have.
Can you look into writing curriculum or maybe teaching online? If you are a high school teacher, your knowledge is vast and you should be able to look into a subject matter you like. I think the field is tiring, and good people, like you, tend to tire of the drama and lack of support. The ones who are ingrained int he system and don't care are more than happy to coast along and have no impact.
((((((((((((((((Lupita)))))))))))))))
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wow, Lupita.
I just wrote you a long thing on the other thread and suggested you find out where you can give in the world...
and here you are having been a HERO (teachers are HEROES) all these years.
My dear, it wouldn't hurt those entitled privileged little twerps to get a reality check.
I wish I had the talent to think of a kind of lesson that could wake them up.
Better yet, a way to get you out of there. You're burned out, and it's a cruel system that traps people past that point.
I have a friend, a smart lovely funny woman, who worked in a high-stress social services job (I'm sure teaching in many places feels exactly that way), and with the help of her shrink, she was eventually able to retire early on SS disability with a diagnosis of depression.
She's not depressed now. She's aware of it, it can revisit, but she's built a good and peaceful life with friends and her mate and her interests. And she feels no shame at all that her illness made her work become impossible.
Hops
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Hi Lupita:
I am a burned out counselor and program planner for special needs kids. You sound like you have the symptoms of burnout. This is something to take very seriously before really serious health concerns arrive. I always soldiered on and thought that i could just keep rolling that boulder up the hill. No so.
When I was working and my life was eat, sleep, work, I could not see any options for getting out. This is part of depression. These are labels that do not do grat service to someone whose life work is being a teacher. The system is rotten. You vice princepal has bought into it so slavishily that like a true narcissist he/she expects you to single-handedly change all these kide and if you don't then you should try harder. This is a naricissist workplace. Someone recommended a book about that.
I finally snapped and came to my senses and went off on sick leave for several months. I don't know why I didn't allow myself to do this much sooner. No one cares a fig if you do this. Short term leave is pretty easily accomplished. Not sleeping, feelings of hopelessness, and crying are serious symptoms of burn-out and can escalate into a very deep depression that is not so easily treated. So dear Lupita, I know how you feel. My heart goes out to you. You need a long rest from all that. You don't say how long you have been teaching but it is long enough. Short term disability pays quite well.Tell you doctor your symptoms. If the doctor does not understand, then get another one.
Standing by,
Sea storm
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Thank you so much for the time you give to the support of people with problems. It is nice to know that I can come here and talk about my problems and hear opinions. Because I do not have anybody to talk to. So coming here is my OASIS of the day. Yes I am burnout. But My insurance , private school, does not have disability. So, I have to keep burning. The thread of Burnout that was opened before, has given me many ideas. I will follow some of those advises. Thank you for talking to me. It is very nice that I am not alone. That there are people who care.
Lupita
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((((((((((Lupita))))))))))
Keep posting, especially if things are really getting to you. You CAN come here and talk, and be heard.
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Here's a little tidbit. My mother has always said she hates the term "burnout" and that only losers use it. Maybe because she has never cared about doing anything for anyone else so it couldn't possible apply to her or matter?
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Here's a little tidbit. My mother has always said she hates the term "burnout" and that only losers use it. Maybe because she has never cared about doing anything for anyone else so it couldn't possible apply to her or matter?
OOOh, call on me, call on meeee! :-) :-) :-) [memories...]
Beth, someone she has harmed has probably used this term. It may trigger some awareness of guilt in her.
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Hi Lupita,
Have you talked to a doctor?
Social security disability doesn't depend on having insurance...
I know it's inadequate though.
I'd also urge you to find a women's center and start attending a support group once a week.
When I was most desperate about my D needing help, and having no insurance, I sent her a list (I included 12-steps because in some way, most of us can identify with at least one of the issues, and they'd be kind and supportive even if you weren't a perfect fit):
AA, Overeaters A, ACOA, CoDA, etc
church groups, including adult RE classes (those are often good places to build friendships)
counseling, and if it's unaffordable, find a mental health ctr, a school of social work, a temple, an anything
weight watchers (why not? a bunch of supportive cheering women trying to empower each other)
walking or hiking groups (exercise helps depression and nature heals)
etc
Never give up, never assume you have no choices, and never assume you can find no human contact
In fact, when you're this depressed, Lupita, nothing could be more important than not isolating
Volunteer. Just a bit, and in a low-stress environment. I help host the homeless every few months. Talk bout perspective...
Just wanting you to see solutions, even partial ones, and start grabbing on...
Hops
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Dear Hops,
Thank you so much. Please, do not think that I am crazy. Just confused. I do not want to think on any kind of disability because I have a dream. I want to own a house, I want to become a psychiatrist, I dream and dream about achievements, and disability would be in the way. Nobody can purchase a home with a small fixed income. How can I go back to school with out money? I want to fix my self. With your help and the nice people in this board I might probably be able to have almost the same as councelling. Am I right?
I rememeber when I was a child and took piano lessons and for the year recital I was shaking, in horrible fear, and friends told me why do you do it? You dont have to do it. Then I said, "I have to". Why? I dont know. I am sure you know. I almost know that you can tell me why I do what I do. It seems that you have a cristal ball. So help me out here. Thanks. Love to you.
Lupita
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Hi Lupita:
Sounds like you're really having a tough time. Not fun at all. Sure wish it could be easily fixed but like anything...I guess it will take plenty of ideas and effort to make a difference. Please don't give up.
One thing strikes me:
What about consequences for these kid's behaviour? Are there any?
Can you devise some? Would any of the following be useful?
How about keeping the 10 kids after school for awhile every day, to discuss the problems?
I doubt they would like that a whole lot eh? Could you tell them that you are concerned about
their behaviour in your class, not happy with the disruption it is causing other students, wondering how to make class more useful to them, hoping to enhance their education, determined to discuss their lack of respect and that you want to understand what they want to get out of your classes and ....
.....that you will persevere in finding these answers/ discussing these issues with them, day after day, until some answers/ resolutions can be found, but that you won't be wasting class time doing so?
Or how about giving them special assignments? "Why I think it is my right to disrupt the class" or
"How I see my behaviour" or "Why school is important" ??? Or even: "What I like about myself" ?? Are you not allowed to keep them in class, even a few minutes, as a consequence of their behaviour?
Is there another teacher in your school who would be willing to assist you? Come to your class every day for 5 or 10 minutes after school? To help sort this out?
Worst case scenario: Can you call a meeting with them and find out what they would like to be doing with the time? Maybe they want to read a novel of their choice or doodle or write about a topic of their choice? If that's what they want, you can explain that you cannot force them to learn or get an education. Wouldn't it be better for them to be reading/doodling/writing comic strips than disrupting your class? Can you not send them out, when they do disrupt things? Or give them some crayons and a colouring book and tell them to go to it, if that's what they prefer?
I guess what I'm getting at is.....these "kids" could have choices that could help them decide to alter their behaviour or at least, shut up and let you teach the rest of the kids.
If they are making rude or insulting remarks toward you, could you use all of your resolve to NOT REACT to their immaturity and instead.... document their exact words....again.....keep them after school to discuss their motivation, intention, reasons they feel obliged to speak in this manner? Kind of treat them like lab rats under your microscope? Try to figger out what makes them tick? Ask them if other people speak to them in this way and how it feels? Let them know that's what you want....to understand why they behave the way they do? (haha! this is starting to sound a bit silly but I'm serious. Who wants to be treated like a lab rat? Better to go to a little lower key and not be studied maybe?).
If the whole group is too much, could you meet with them individually? Always, always expressing concern for their welfare, as well as that of the rest of the class and not reacting to... but rather curious about....their behaviour and how they feel? Maybe, if they had to communicate one on one with you, as people, they would not feel so full of themselves? If you're worried about stories they might make about about being alone with you, during these discussions, again, is there another teacher who might assist you? Or can you call their parents in for the meeting?
Are the parents not available? It's a difficult situation to have kids who behave badly and parents who don't give a hoot. Makes me wonder if that's why the kids behave badly to begin with maybe? Do these kids need someone to care about them? Do they resent the others who might have that? Are they just evil beings who have come to taunt your classroom? Which thought is the most realistic and makes most sense to you Lupita? Are you taking it too personally? Do these kids behave like this elsewhere or just in your class? Do they connect with any adults? And fianally......will you keep in mind, first and foremost, the idea that these kids will soon be gone from your world....this won't last forever? Maybe there is a way to help them make better choices until then?
Hope some of this helps ((((((((Lupita)))))))) Sorry they are making things so difficult. The good news is:
160 give me a lot of satisfaction
I'm very glad that it's such a huge majority! That's encouraging eh?
Sela
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I found the same kind of thing in my management career. Out of 150 or so employees, there were about 10-20 that really got on my nerves with insubordination, constant complaining, disrespect .e.tc... The trouble is, this small group was also very good at making 10 times more noise than anybody else, so their "message" drowned out the positive from the majority. I reached the stage where it seemed I could not pay attention to anything else. The "bad seeds" were coloring my perception of the whole situation.
I eventually reached extreme burnout and quit. I tend to think I am just not cut out for this type of work. But it could be I just didn't have the experience/ skills to deal with the inevitable bad apples. I also have come to believe those of us with N influences in the background are very susceptible, because we have learned to accomodate rather than really manage a situation.
So possibly one answer is a job where you are not in charge of people. I can see where trying to manage 170 high school age kids in the modern school environment would be an extreme challenge. I remember how some of the teachers were treated when I was in high school, and somehow the vulnerable got detected out and targeted for abuse. Looking back on it now, it seems like the majority of my high school teachers probably were in some stage of "burnout".
If you can't get out of the situation fairly soon, is it possible to transfer to a different level of the education system?
Figuring out how to manage is critical, because the burnout just keeps getting worse.
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Lupita,
Hmm, sounds like they are challenging you? I would take on the challenge. I would ask them to be quiet if they did not respond then I would stop the class and ask if they think they could do a better job. That you were open to options. I would call them to the front and give them the floor. I would tell them that is obvious with all the disruptions they have something to say. I would call them all up and say go for it. Say what you need to say. Tell everyone, we are listening.
I'm sure they will say something like real smart asses but you will have to hold strong. I would then address the rest of the class and ask them if they agree with them. Some will, Some won't. I would tell them all I have heard everything they have said and understand that it is their true feelings but tuff, that you are here to teach and if they have an creative ideas that you can fit in to make it more enjoyable for them then you are open to it. I would challenge the one's giving you the hard time to come up with creative ideas? If they have none then I would bypass them and listen to the other students.
Maybe if they leave them selves out they will find it's really lonely not getting the attention of the others anymore and join the group who is creating instead of disrupting. Ask them what could make it more interesting?
Just an idea, Does your school allow you to do this?
Love Deb
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Lupita,
Also, do you think that these kids have some kind of learning disability? Maybe that is why they are not motivated.
Just wondering?
Deb
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Great minds think alike Deb, were you thinking on the lines of ADHD perhaps?
Leah
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Leah,
Ya I was. I was also thinking on the terms of dyslexia which my son suffered from. ADD and Dyslexia have almost the same traits in the classroom and they can be confused for each other. My son was much younger so he did not disrupt the class with disrespect (plus I would kill him) but he did tend to wander off the subject. He would look out the window. He just didn't get it so he gave up and got bored. He was not motivated. He couldn't be. Why try when you don't get it.
I eventually tried tricks and he was able to learn some on his own. With his reading they would send home sheets of paper with a short story on it. He hated it. We together figured out what may help him. I started to draw pictures above the word so he could look at the word and look above to see the picture. Like Butterfly I would draw one on the top. It started to click for him. He would remember through mental pictures.He then motivated himself to at least try. It paid off. When I went to see his teacher she told me that all the kids in the class would ask if they could read off of my sons page. She let them and adopted it into the class.
He's 12 now and does really well but I'm sure the harder it gets we will have to come up with new st rageties.
So it made me wonder about Lupita's students.
Love Deb
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(((Deb)))
You truly are a wonderful mother
and your son is so blessed to have you for his mother.
Leah x
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I have tried all what you have mentioned. These are not special aid kids. This are adults. 18 years old. And they are very smart. Like the employee of CB. Today We went to the media center to work a beautiful assignment on the internet. They are seven in this class only. The seven said "I am not going to do it" i asked why and they said "I have something better to do".
Then I said that this is my time and they have to do my work. Then the media center specialist was so mad that she cold the principal. When they saw that she called the principal four of them started to work. Three still did not do anything. When the principal arrived he said J, to my office. The other said I have not done anything wrong. Then the principal said S, "my office". He took them to his office and I did not see them the rest of the day. The others complained that I have never explained the work to them. I did, many times. Then one started to sing. Then I said, do not sing and do not talk, we are in the library. Then they finished and I told them to read. I do not know what is going to happen on Monday. I expect that if they saw the principal taking these two to the office, they are going to be better. Before I left school today I went to the office and asked the principal if he wanted to talk to me and he said that we could talk next week and that I have a good weekend. I thought if he was mad at me he would want to talk to me immediately. I do not know. Please help. I need a teacher to give me ideas. Tricks. How can I turn around this class. First period. Please. Help. Do we have a teacher here? Education specialist? I cannot transfer. I have to survive the rest of the year. I will think what to do then but for now, I will not find a job until the end of the year. And I need for this principal to give a good recommendation. He has to be happy with me or I will never get t another job.
Please help. Any teacher here?
Lupita
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Dear Lupita,
Before I left school today I went to the office and asked the principal if he wanted to talk to me and he said that we could talk next week and that I have a good weekend. I thought if he was mad at me he would want to talk to me immediately. I do not know. Please help.
The principal does not have a problem with your work Lupita.
Your confidence has been undermined by this small minority, group of 7 pupils aged 18 years old ..... and they know it ..... believe me.
Once they get a whiff of that ....... then they assume to take control.
You need to remove that false sense of power and control from them .... it does not belong to them, it belongs to you - the teacher.
You need to demonstrate unwavering confidence in your decisions, from the front of the class (regardless of how you really feel inside)
Be firm in your speech and speak directly and clearly ..... your directions, and don't take no prisoners!!
Is there a rule for sending a pupil out to the principal for inappropriate behavior in the classroom?? If yes, do it ...... no matter how many times ..... the message will come over loud and clear.
As it did when the media center specialist called the Principal.
Did you get an opportunity to speak to the media center specialist afterwards?? Seems a likely ally and source of helpful input.
Teaching 18 years old today .......... you deserve a medal.
(((( Leah ))))
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Leah, leah, Thank you. Thank you for telling me that the principal does not have any problem with my work. Thank you. I wanted so much to hear something like that. The media center specialist said that she will not tolerate any disrespect in her sanctuary. I praised the Lord for that. Your idea of sending those little pricks in formation to the office is very good. I will tell you what happened on Monday. That is the only class that gives me problems. And it makes me feel so bad, so depressed, so useless, and they know it. It is their way to manipulate the situation to get them selves out of work. I later discovered that those two that were in the office, missed an important test in their second period, and they intentionally missed it. Also, the girl that was singing and I told her that she sould not be singing when we are working in the library, also gives a lot of disrespect to the music teacher. This is a private school, these kids are rich, they come with very expensive cars, etc. So, I know that the principal has to be very diplomatic.
Thank you.
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Dear Lupita,
Believe me, 18 years olds can be very manipulative and crafty.
This is a private school, these kids are rich, they come with very expensive cars, etc. So, I know that the principal has to be very diplomatic.
Yes, private school, rich kids ............ and the parents pay a high price for their kids education ..... and they want results!! And the principal knows that ......and he knows that he has overall responsibility to ensure good behaviour and good results ..... or he'll have angry parents beating at his door.
Sending the disruptive group members out to see the principal will bring results.
They will see that you are clearly in charge.
And also, you are allowing the principal to take action with the parents, should the need arise. Better to have everything in the open.
Look forward to hearing how you get on re: Monday's class.
Will remember you in my prayers.
(((Leah)))
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Hey Lupita,
There is only so much you can do. Your right they are young adults. I wouldn't feel bad about myself. How much more can you do. You are not their therapist. These kids obviously have issues. If you were to call me on my kid he would have, no car, no money and pretty much no life.
I would remind little Johnnie or Richie Rich that they still have to pass the class and it is entirely up to them. If they want to walk with their class on graduation day then they better get with the program and pull their head out of their ass. I on the other hand would be doing the touchdown dance to get them the hell out!!
You can lead the horse to water but you can't make him drink.
I thought I would pull my hair out when my kids turned 18 and they were nothing like the 10 you have.
I don't know how you do it. P.S. My daughter is going to be a teacher, OY!
Aw who knows maybe little Richie Rich's wife/gf may get to talk to US on here one day when she finds out that Richie Rich always thought the world revolved around him.
Try not to get to stressed. JUNE IS COMING!!!!
Love Deb
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Thank you Deb. My Sympathy to your daughter. God bless her. 54 school days are left to the end of the year. May 23. :P :mrgreen: :twisted:
I will tell everybody about Monday morning first period class.
God bless you all for listening and giving your thoughts.