Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: gratitude28 on March 06, 2007, 06:18:25 AM
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I was reading the paper... one of the advice columns... and a man had written that his girlfriend was stealing money from him in the house. He made lots of excuses for her and then asked the columnist what to do.
She asked him if he was the kind of guy who gets mad when someone picks his pocket, or if he figures, well, the guy must have needed it...
I have to say that I work hard not to be the kind of person who thinks the pickpocket needed the money more than me. I think I am so used to being taken advantage of that it is still hard for me to take my own side in an issue... even one where I am definitely not to blame.
Where would you fall? Indignant? Or quasi-understanding?
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Oh Grats, that happens so often!!! I know several people who would react the same exact way. I guess we start understanding a little about people who were abused, grow up and continue being abused. They do not know what to do. They do not know. We need to help people who ignore what to do. I do not know how, but I wish we could. I imagine for example, if they ask as a question in arabic language, we would not know what to answer.
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Hi Beth,
Well lets say I drive a convertible. I park on a busy street and leave the top down. I also leave my wallet in plain sight and walk away. Someone takes the wallet and skedaddles. Two things. That makes me a fool and it makes the person who took my wallet a thief.
tt
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Yes, tt, that is a great example that relates to the one I gave.
In my own life, I was robbed in my home and still felt bad for the robbers (yet angry and scared and crazy for a long while too).
But you are right. I do "leave my wallet" when it comes to many situations. And that is good to keep in mind.
Love,Beth
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Well this is the guys g/f so I wonder why she feels the need to steal it. A. I would think she had some kind of problem drugs/Alcohol keeping it hidden. B. She was getting ready to leave and stocking up (some kind of hidden agenda) or C she was just a thief. Either way you go I would feel robbed and angry.
Love Deb
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** Firstly, "how would I react?"
I really do go for the "leave my wallet" analogy - brilliant, will remember that.
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** Secondly, for me, whilst pondering on the situation, I considered that it illustrated "Enabling Behavior"
The b/f's g/f stole money from him - firstly, how must he have felt regarding Trust in their relationship?
What of open Communication? If she was genuinely in need of money.
Enabling - If the b/f dismisses and makes excuses for the g/f about her taking money from him and does nothing, by that I mean, talk with her, as Deb says, has she got a problem??
But the reality is this, that he is doing her no kindness at all, especially with regard to long term, choosing to make excuses over and above, working this through with his g/f, in addressing whatever her problem may be - the reason for her motivation to steal the money from him.
In making excuses for her, he is in effect, enabling her behavior, of theft, and, the real danger is at this early stage, she has no opportunity to confront and deal with her problem.
And the g/f's problem with grow.
Hope is okay to share this - if not, please ignore.
Leah xx
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That is all true Leah. Actually, I had no question about the original issue... if someone were stealing from me (or if someone cheated on me, say) I would have no problem ejecting the person from my life.
On the flip side, I would feel sorry for the person. I always do. I feel like if a person is that dumb and that desperate, they can't be very happy.
But sometimes I feel bad for them when I should be feeling bad for ME. You know what I mean???
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Hi Beth,
Sorry, I answered, replied, in a two parts, firstly " how would I react", and then secondly, I was merely just working through, pondering, on the actual situation, as for me, it perfectly illustrated "Enabling behavior"
Certainly is heart wrenching regarding the dynamics of Victim and Perpetrator.
Perpetrator's may well have had situations in their lives that brought them to the edge as it were.
But thats just own feelings and thoughts.
Leah xx
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Yes, it is a PRIME example of enabling.
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Good morning Grat.How are you today? I did not know that you had to take meds. Sorry about that. I will be praying for you.
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It's OK, Lupita. I have a family history of depression and also thyroid disease. The thyroid really threw me out of whack for a while. It's amazing that you don't even know which end is up with that disease!!! So I am thrilled to be healthy and alsot o have my mond in a really good place. After finding this board and realizing what was bogging me down all these years, I just feel like a real person at last.
Love, Beth
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Dear Grat, I am so sorry to hear about your pain. I understand you. It must be a pain in the neck to have to be carefully taking medicines every singel day. Thyroid is very delicate. The dosis has to be so exact. What do you have? Hypo or Hyper? I imaginen since you have depression that you have Hypo. The arms feel heavy, the legs feel heavy, no energy, hard to move, get up in the morning is a major accomplishement. Gaining waight. But it is so nice that you found the right medication.
God bless you. Praying for you.
Dobri biecher.
Lupita
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Hey Lupe,
I actually had Grave's disease, so a good mix of all the bad stuff. They got rid of my thyroid with nuclear medicine... I guess I glowed for a few days or weeks. I had weight loss, weight gain, manic periods, depression, anxiety... can't even remember most of it unless someone reminds me of something specific from that time. Also had two little kids, was in Italy and my husband was gone. And I had a basically negligent Doctor.
But all is good now and I am happy to have it behind me and so thankful to feel level at last.
Did you have thyroid issues?
Love, Beth
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hi you two
I had Euthyroid (spelling is right?) not Hyper-- or Hypo-
Had a nodule on the right side, removed and no medication needed.
Lost weight, trembling hands, heart palpitations that felt like anxiety attacks--1998
Had my throat slit and went home the next day!
Oh Lordy!
Izzy
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Hi Grat, no, no problems. My problems are in my back. But the worst problems I have are in my head. How are you today?
Izzi, how are you today?
God bless you.
Lupita
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LOL Iz. I had the palpitations and all that too. Didn't know I was so sick, so I worked out a lot and it made me worse.
Lupita, I had the back stuff too. I must say, since the thyroid and the back (I had surgery for a ruptured disc... spent a month and a half unable to get out of bed... and not even comfortable in bed... truly thought life was worthless... chronic pain is AWFUL), I can say that I have had 5 years with little difficulty health-wise. I wish you freedon from pain!!!! It amazes me every day the aches and pains we get as we get older!!!! No fair!!! I want THIS brain in my 18-year-old body!!!
Love, Beth
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Beth, you did back surgery? Was it the fusion thing or a laparoscopic thing?
If you don't mind sharing a bit more, I'd love to know.
I hope to avoid back surgery but it might be on horizon one day.
thanks,
Hops
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Oh Hops,
I hate to think of anyone going through that pain. My mother is actually having some problems with it now too. And the Doctor I had, a tiny thing, had had surgery when she was 26 due to the same pain.
OK... story... One day, my back started hurting. And then it got worse. And then I got bad sciatica. I wouldn't go to the doctor b/c everyone told me that happens and it passes in a few weeks. Would go to work in the morning and struggle to make it out to my car in the afternoon. Soon I could no longer go to work. Had an MRI, they said it was a slipped disc. I could no longer get out of bed. Laid in bed popping pills (ended up on Oxycontin... and the pain was so bad by that time that it had minimal effect). I was so depressed with the pain! I did the surgery, because it was either that or take a whole bottle of pills and end it all. I couldn't take it anymore (and I have a great threshhold for pain).
Went in for surgery and came out the next day and was 85% better. Psychologically, I was still a bit messed up... the pain was gone, but my body was still trying to protect and correct the areas where the pain had been. They actually cut my back open, but I hear they don't do that anymore. It was amazing. I was so grateful, even though I had been scared. But there was no other choice.
Have you had them try injecting the spot as well? They did that for me but it didn't work. However, it worked well for my mother.
What kind of pain are you having?
Love, Beth
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hi Lupita,
I think I was fine. I forgot that I posted on this thread.
In short:
1.) tonsils
2.) tumour
3.) baby
4.) broken back
5.) D&C
6.) thyroidectomy
7.) all the broken bones: back L1, 9 toes, right ankle twice, right shin bone, right foot, left ankle and leg, left big toe
8.) spirit
yadda yadda
Izzy
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So, Izzy, if you have a car and you replace all the parts... is it still the same car???
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Yoicks, Izzy. I'm sorry. Feel stupid complaining about my back after reading your list, but since Beth asked, I'll do my "backstory":
Beth, I have a ruptured L5 and L4, mild scoliosis, and their catchall: degnerative disk disease.
I've had about 5 epidural steroid injections and they definitely help...for a few weeks.
I'm hoping that when I start up my gym routine again (starting this Saturday) I can very very very gradually build core strength and restore my back.
It's better than it was in my previous job, which tells me stress makes it worse. But still, I can simply turn in my chair the wrong way and let out a yell. I took oxycontin too at times, but now have Tramadol that I take several times a week during the day, and one almost every night.
I'm not sure when I should investigate surgery, but there might be a laparoscopic procedure.
So I imagine you had the ruptured vertebrae fused?
Thanks for telling the tale...
Hops
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I think this is a very interesting thread and want to bring it back if thats ok. I am such an enabler. I can forgive anything, I hope that is past tense. I can justify the thief doing what he did. I know this is crazy.
After one trip with XN he had some grass after we came back I asked him if he had brought it back from abroad. He said No you did. He had put it in my bag. Now any functioning person with a healthy sense of herself would have walked then but I did not. I was angry and told him but I did nothing. I do that, mouth off, and then slide into compliance. It is linked with other things I have posted here about passivity. If someone did it to my kid I would kill them, or at least report them to the police but I let that pig get away with it.
I did this because I was hooked into some crazy fantasy. I trusted him more than I trusted myself and I thought a relationship with him was more important than respect for me. He was always disrespectful to me but so was I. This is where I need to so much work. I can talk the talk but not so good at walking the walk, but I am working on it.
Sea, I understand,
axa
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Sorry to hear about all the med troubles for you guys - hope it gets better!
Axa, I know what you mean about enabling and allowing things to slide. Looking back at my long N relationship, I didn't let things slide so much as I feel like my voice was not loud enough. I brought issues up but the N was like an emotional tornado who would rage and torment if I ever brought up that I was uncomfortable with something. So I'd give up. I actually remember him saying to me one time "How can you possibly bring this up (fingers an inch apart signifying small) when MY troubles are like this (arms wide open)?" He always minimized me/mine and I accepted myself as not as important. How sad.
Until I finally learned! Now I have a voice just loud enough.
Dandylife
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Axa,
You sound so angry with yourself.
Can you forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know?
For not seeing your part at that time?
You deserve complete love, deep kindness, no blame or self-loathing.
That's not fair to you...
hugs,
Hops
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Hops,
not so much angry with myself as acknowledging that I did not take responsiblity for my well being. This is the root of my problems. Putting someone else before myself especially in dysfunctional abusive relationships. I guess one of the big lessons from this last relationship is that I colluded with the abuser and I was aware at times of this.
I want to take responsibility for my life. I could not be abused if I had not allowed it. I may have postted this before but it often comes to mind. I recall lying beside him one morning as he was being particularly nasty. I thought if he is saying these things to me he has no respect for me and as I continue to lie here an listen and justify the unjustifiable then I have no respect for me also. I am giving him the message that it is ok to treat me like this. I am saying to him by my actions continue, it is ok. This has been a big step for me Hops in shifting from blame to responsibility.
Does it make sense to ya
axa
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Yes, that does, Axa.
A very painful thing to own and be accountable for.
Good for you for naming it so fiercely.
hugs,
Hops
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(((((((((((((((((axa)))))))))))))
And now you NEVER have to be there again.
Love, Beth
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Hops
I lost track of this thread.
How is your back? What was done? How are you feeling?
I had a fracured L1. It was pushed inward and crushed my spinal cord, not severed, so I am/was a partial paraplegic. I forget the words now for what was done, likely a fusion, a laminectomy, then Harrington Rods were placed next to my spinal column, clamped in the middle, nuts and bolts at top and bottom
If your body doesn't reject them in the first 10 years, you keep the Rods for life.
I have seen them in an x-ray scan when having another test and the nuts and bolts are loose. The bolts are hanging and the nuts have worked their way into my shoulder blade area, and my kidney area. They don't hurt.
What hurts s is the top of the Rods that are poking out a bit ....just skin over stainless steel.
I cannot go into one of those cat scan machines or I will blow to kingdom come. Right?
love
Izzy
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hi axa
This has been a big step for me Hops in shifting from blame to responsibility.
Does it make sense to ya
When we realize something, as you did, it was the time. There is a time for everything, and I believe each person will know that time when it comes. No one else can set that time for you, tell you what to do, or when to do it! You just know.
xxoo
Izzy
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izzy,
Yes, that was a big step for me. I feel very sad right now but I know that is linking into the fantasy need remember that is all it was..... a fantasy. Struggling with taking responsibility for my own well being but I know where I am now is better.
axa