Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: dandylife on March 06, 2007, 02:37:05 PM
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I was in a conversation with my mom's boyfriend the other day (seems like a nice enough guy). But we were talking about coffee (they got me a French press for Christmas) and I was saying how much I like a great cup of coffee.
Here's where our conversation went weird.
He says to me (and I remember his exact wording because it was so jarring): "Are you ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO RUINS their coffee by putting cream and sugar in it?"
I was so taken aback I was actually speechless.
I am ashamed to say I was so flustered I said something like "No of course not" and didn't address it further. I think I changed the subject. Fact is, I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!
I'm just wondering if anyone else experiences this kind of communication - and what do you do? Laugh about it and say YES I AM! I spose would have worked fine.
But I just felt so I don't know - accused? exposed? whatever. And then being a "nice" person I didn't want to "expose" his not-niceness, especially in front of my mom. (is that co-dependence - enabling?)
Anyway - anyone have thoughts?
Thanks,
Dandylife
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Mother's BF: Are you one of those people who ruins their coffeee, etc...
Dandylife: You mean, you drink naked coffee? :shock:
I think that sort of stupidity is best responded to with laughter.
It is laughable.
It's not worth words.
We so often think we have to SAY something. But sometimes the best response is facial expression or body language...
A chuckle or nod or anything that wouldn't get one into self-defense mode.
I think your instinct to agree with him is the place to work...
love,
Hops
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Hi DL
I would have said, "Oh no, I cannot STAND coffee without cream and sugar. it's the only way to go!" I could say this because that is a firm belief of mine so I wouldn't waver, as I might with a less definite topic for me.
I am going to guess that perhaps you ought to have been honest instead of trying to please him (people-pleasing?)
So, what I a saying, from the way I am, I have to firmly believe in what I say to respond in any way so that the conversation can continue--- if it is a political remark I just say" I don't follow politics" (truth) and get out of the mess to not appear too clueless.
Love
Izzy
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Your mother's boyfriend reminds me of my father. I think he may have said that very think even. I worked feverishly to try to adapt to his way of thinking lest I be ONE OF THOSE. But boy was that a waste of time.
I really connect with your shock and your response. I would have responded similarly out or two places: a longing to connect and a triggered response out of shame or a combination of both. None of which feels good. I love the suggestions from Hops and Izzy. Imagine yourself saying one of those or something along those lines and see how it feels. - Gaining Strength
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Another thought I had DL
....do you drink "naked coffee" in front him only? Or what if he catches you "ruining your coffee"?
Izzy
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two things to say about this:
first, I'm one who people do not like very much because I tell them they are using a drug if they use caffeine, and especially if they HAVE to have a cup of coffee in order to function. To me, it's odd to purposely teach your body to become dependent on a drug of any kind, unless you need that drug by no fault of your own...for instance, diabetics NEED insulin, hypothyroid people need Synthroid, Cancer Patients need pills...humans do not require caffeine until they started drinking it as a habit, thus forming an addiction. Just makes no sense to me, and when I say this to coffee drinkers, they vow to pretty much almost tar and feather me and run me out of town on a rail. I do speak something that is medically and scientifically truth, however. Further, I do not like being CONTROLLED by anything or anyone, so to drink coffee and NEED it, to me is an unneeded control.
Secondly, when anyone says "you are not one of those people who..." my answer is a quick "heck yeah!" and that usually ends it, unless the person is in lecture mode. In that case, they will have a very equal sparring person, as I'm not too easily intimidated most of the time. That is one discussion that could last a good while. :)
~Laura
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Again, to each his own on the coffee issue. I merely state my view and people are going to do what they do. I know I don't rule the world nor do I try to anymore.
Some of my closest friends, even in my spiritual circle, drink coffee. No condemnation, just my view :)
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oh Wow , reallyME,
Do you really approach people, on purpose, who drink coffee and express those feelings? I love my coffee and I would see that as an uncalled for lecture. However, I didn't see the necessity of that first paragraph.
I do speak something that is medically and scientifically truth This reads a little funny. Should it not be
I do speak regarding something that is medically and scientifically a truth
or
I do speak regarding something that is medically and scientifically true
xx
Izzy
Just wondering, as I never did attend College, and my grammar was learned many, many years ago.
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Thanks all you guys for your thoughts!
Another thing that came to mind after writing this out - my father was the original abuser in my life (I married someone much like him) but anyway my dad is now dead and I think in the context of that (mom's boyfriend stepping in his place sort of - unconsciously for me anyway). Perhaps in that context (dad's opinion always mattered more than mine - he made me feel 'voiceless') so perhaps in that context I subconsciously made Dave a stand in for my dad?
Maybe too much analysis!
Laura- it's interesting what you say about caffiene- actually it's turning out that it does have health benefits in moderation. But- you know what it made me think of? When I was pregnant, I didn't drink caffeine, pop, all I would drink is water. All good foods, etc. treating my body like a temple. But as soon as I had my babies, I was back to drinking carbonated drinks and coffee. Funny, huh?
I think humor is a great way to handle this in the future if I can keep my wits about me while being "triggered".
Thanks again all!
Dandylife
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Hi, I love coffie. I could sleep one more hour in the morning, instead, I get up at 5:00 AM just to enjoy a cup of coffie, watching the news and reading the boards. Love it.
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Dandy,
Not knowing more than what you wrote here in the original post (and I also didn't read down to the end of the responses), my first thought is that he was trying to be funny and further the conversation. I think usually I would save that remark until I had noticed something of that sort (I have freinds who like to char their steaks and I eat mine mooing, so I joke about it). I don't know that I would mention it unless I saw the lump of burned meat on their plate or they ordered it that way...
Was he trying to prove that he is a coffee connoisseur??? Did he want to impress you???
I don't know... these are all the ideas that come to mind.
Love, Beth
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Oh no...
I just finished reading the responses and now I realize I am a drug addict...
Man, I THOUGHT I was doing better...
I don't NEED the coffee to survive, but I sure am a nicer person with it :) And I only read the reports that say positive things about my coffee :)
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gratitude,
wow. never never in a million years would I think that - that he wanted to impress me or further the conversation. Is that my low self esteem or what?
thanks for pointing that out.
I feel a bit stupid.
Dandylife
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Dandy,
I am atleast as dumb... I see everyone as looking down at me. It is so weird. I assumed the same thing about something this week... Ahhh Live and Learn.
Alanis Morrisette...
I... recommend walking around naked in your living room... (OMG NEVER)
I... recommend putting your foot in your mouth at any time... (Good at this one...)
Kisses,
Beth
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Dear Grat, you have such a nice personality that I cannot imagine anybody looking down at you. You are a lovable person, and helpful.
Love
Lupita
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Yes, very much, Bean. It does help explain.
I think one of my troubles is not being able to fully accept that ALL people do exhibit certain N traits or behaviors, but that doesn't nec. make them an N. Maybe I have a highly senstive N behavior detector. Yes I see that he was judging black white/ good bad when it was absolutely not nec. Or his way was better than everyone else's who didn't do it his way. !
And the challenge in his statement! Maybe he does like to spice up convos just to see what happens. I guess I don't know him well enough yet to say.
Thanks very much for your thoughts!
Dandylife
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Many people, especially many men, are not raised to learn subtle verbal communication radar.
I don't know about this man, but I know some men I've known would say something mock-aggressive like that in an attempt to be friendly.
Hops
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Hi dandy,
Don't you just hate triggers? Once triggered our ability to respond calmly, clearly, charmingly or candidly pretty much goes up in vapors. The flustered feeling of having given a compromised answer makes us feel untrue to ourselves. Ugghhh! I remember reading something recently by C.S. Lewis where he said, A fabricated emotion is a miserable thing. I won't armchair quarterback the exchange you had with your mom's friend. But I think it is safe to say that the only way to get past the triggers is to become comfortable with our choices. I mean, what earthly reason is there for you not to drink your coffee with cream and sugar if you like it that way? IMO, the man simply demonstrated his bent for the superficial.
tt
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Storm,
Invalidation from a person in whom I'm emotionally vested and vice versa would be annoying and might get my dander up. Addressing invalidation from a person or organization where my integrity were at stake would be necessary for me to stay true to myself.
Giving it back - amusingly - [the 'naked coffee' quip is a good one] is one of the better 'counters' for this, because you don't have to know for sure what is going on.
I don't know about this. I know what you said might not have been the end of the conversation, but countering with ambiguities where neither side knows any more about the person than they did when they started doesn't seem like progress, or integrity or validation to me. I think we all do it, but in its true light, I think it is a waste of time.
tt
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I think this man would deserve a comment using verbal self-defense techniques, as he was being abusive, but hiding it behind so-called 'humour'. Suzette Haden Elgin, in her books, says that the way to respond to this kind of question is to not answer the ACTUAL question at all, but to recognise the ASSUMPTION behind it, and question that.
So, here, it might be,
'And when did you start to think that you had the right to demand that other people conform to what YOU think is OK as regards food intake?'
Or,
'When did you start to think you could demand that I tell you anything at alll about my preferences?'
Asking a question back to them, instead of just answering their question, also shows that you're not going to comply so easily.
Janet
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Ask him.....
"why do you want to know?"
In a very intimate tone and see what he says to that kind of question next time.
If he's still stuttering and asking for an answer.......
It's a good time to ask him something along the line of Hop's thinking.... why he's so interested in talking about something 'naked' with you?
Then laugh like you have no intention of going there with him.
He probably does drink his coffee black..... and think it's the only way to go.
Blech and my 3 favorite coffee drinking buds do too.
They don't call me a *ussy over it, lol... but I'm sure they're tolerating me, lol.
Having watched them seemingly enjoy it that way.... I tried the stuff black. Ick ick ick.
Give me a Venti 2 splenda Latte, mitt schlag, every time.
I'll even wave a Pumkin Spice Latte under their noses when the season strikes me; )
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Glad this topic was revived.
I saw this great comic and cut it out - it's been on my fridge for a while. Hope it attaches properly.
If not, a poll taker knocks on a woman's door. When she answers, he asks, "Do you agree that national polls are fair and unbiased, or are you some kind of moron?"
Hah!
Love,
Dandylife
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HA! HA! HA! That's so funny!
I love cartoons. Got any more?
Janet
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This is an interesting topic. I find that when I meet a person that sends out those little "digs" it is usually got nothing to do with me. Maybe this guy had a really bad experience with cream and sugar once. :shock: :lol:
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:shock: RUINS??? I love it that way too!!! I think Hops' answer was hilarious. LOL.
I also agree with folks that the point to begin is at the point when you feel you must accommodate. I used to feel much more "exposed" by comments like that than I do now. I used to freeze. Now I feel like I am beginning to think of my "likes" and "dislikes" as parts of me that I want to express! I think I understand how you felt and that it was difficult to respond. Your question is a very interesting and helpful one.
Hannah