Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: spyralle on March 11, 2007, 08:48:25 AM
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Hello everyone... I just need a space to rant so please forgive me before I start.. I have just got off the phone to N mum in Spain. She has decided that at 76 she needs to come and live with me.... I explained to her very sensibly that I didn't think it would work as we were very different and she would hate my lifestyle. She just went into one and said that I was denying her a place to rest her bones.. That I was denying her somewhere to die. Apparently my brother (another N) has told her that she is welcome to come to him (no wonder she just gave him 1/4 of a million quid) and she is now heartbroken that I will not let her live with me. I said it would be lovely if she moved back to Engalnd and lived nearby but that I did not think it would work if we lived together... and I don't and I just can't do it to myself because she makes me feel so guilty all the time...
She was sobbing on the other end of the phone and saying all she would need is a room and a TV and would never go out. It was awful. I always end up hating myself for being a crap daughter. She said that in her whole life she had never done or said anything to hurt me or my daughter and it was all us.. She also said she had to live on practically nothing so that all her money could go to us... I have never asked her to do that. I would love to see her enjoying herself but she has now decided that she has come to the end of her life and that I am wicked for not giving her a place to "rest her bones"..
Anyway she has just put the phone down on me in tears...
Am I a crap daughter???
Spyralle x
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Spyralle,
In short, NO you are not a "crap" daughter.
An honest daughter who has explained the reasons why.
Both my parents never wanted me till now, then suddenly last year, I was declared their "lifeline" as no other adult child will have them.
So I am presently working on the situation with my very needy father whom had no contact with me after leaving home and divorcing with my mother. Amazing!
I only joined here mid Jan 2007 so I am not aware of your story. Nonetheless, I very much doubt that you a "crap" daughter, why else would you be here?
I consider that you are, like me, a genuine kind person, whom our parent(s) know would take care of them, they can trust us, but not their other children!
Which means we cannot be "crap" !!
Others will be able to post shortly who know you and are more able to give you support and validation etc.
Take care,
Leah xx
PS ... they never seem to lose their skill of pressing "people who have a genuine kind heart" .... buttons!! in the hope of a responsive "guilt trip" for their own personal advantage and gain.
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(((((spyralle)))))
There is no way on this earth that you are a crap daughter.
Your mother is just trying to make you feel guilty with the tears as you wont give into what she wants from you.
Let her go and live with your brother i am sure that would not last for long!!
Be strong and don't give into her N behavior, she just wants to take control of your life, and you can't do that to yourself you have come to far to go back to that again......
You are the most wonderful and caring person on this earth so please dint let those crocodile tears fool you into letting her come and live with you.......
I could never live with my mother but that does not mean that you dint care about her....
Take care Spyralle and stop feeling bad ...it not you its your mothers problem.
Big hugs
Sandra xxxxx
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My heart goes out to you. I have experienced the same thing, my n mother who was abusive and controlling in my childhood suddenly wanting to come and visit once I was married and gave birth to her only two grandsons.
Visitting I would allow. When I refused to let her do overnights she rained on me. Tearful phone calls, guilt tripping letters, having family members intercede.
Stand your ground.
If your mother was homeless and destitute you might have to do some soul searching about your responsibility. As it is from your post, she has money to give and another sibling who she is much closer to than you.
Your question should not be, "Am I a Crap Daughter?"
It should be, "Did I Have a Crap Mother?"
Please keep posting.
We are all here for you.
KATE
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Hey Bean xxx good to see you..
You have all posed a question now in my head... I mean I know I asked the question am I a crap daughter in the first place but now I am actually condiering what it means..
I have always been a bad daughter according to my mother... for the following reasons:
I love to be casual I alwaysd have jeans on... Now this is where it gets confusing.. If I try to dress up for her she always without exception tells me that she doesn't like what I am wearing... says I should stick to wearing jeans......?????????
I am not a mirror image of her...
I do not put housework above all else in this world
I believe that my friends will still love me even when my house is a mess.... How deluded am I... How could that be?????
I do not let her into the innermost workings of my mind...
I do not find it OK that she wants to know how much my duaghters boyfriend earned this month
I do not eat at the same time every day and love having my daughters friends in and out of my house...
I do not want to live with her.. and my daughter if she had her way... That is incomprehensible...
I was a skinny kid with greasy hair who was bullied at school instead of being sports captain
I have had lots of failed relationships....... Told me one day it was because of the PJ's I was wearing!!!!
I am flat chested... God forgive me!!!
I do not want breast implants
THEREFORE i MUST BE RUBBISH... i'LL BE BACK WITH MORE OF THIS.. IT IS VERY CATHARTIC
Spyralle x
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Spyralle
Sounds to me as though she dislikes you for being a person in your own right, with your own ideas and needs, your own body and mind, your own likes and dislikes.
Good for you.
Too bad for her.
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"I do not let her into the innermost workings of my mind."
I learned at a very early age when I was essentially powerlessness that nothing angered my mother more than feeling that I might have an independent thought that she knew nothing of.
I can remember counselling sessions when she would say, "I think Karen did this because of that." I used to sit there at nine or 10 years of age and think, "I wonder why you didn't just ask me."
Once in my teens I was sent to the local grocery store to buy milk. As I walked by the gas station I saw the owner holding a classmate of mine by his collar against the wall. There was, obviously, a problem.
The next day, as we sat down to dinner, Saint Mom began what she always did, holding court with local gossip, true or untrue. She said that my classmate, Steve, had been caught stealing at the gas station.
I said, "Yes, I saw that."
Mother: "YOU DID NOT!!!"
Me: "Yes, that happened when you sent me to the store for milk."
Mother: "If you ever saw anything like that, you would have run home and told us."
I look up, and my father, sister, and brother are looking at me scornfuly. I upset Saint Mom with the truth.
I understand the appearance thing also. I have always said that I could be an Oscar Nominee, perfectly dressed and coiffed, and my mother would come and pick a piece of lint off my shoulder.
One day I was in a store with my back to the door when my "mother" walked up and said, "Why do you walk on the insides of your feet?"
She made a big issue about her perceived need for me to have surgery (my father had flat feet) when I hsd no pain or problem at all.
Sorry if I hijacked your thread.
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Hey no worries... Feel free to hijack anytime GentleKate, I hijacked yours earlier...
your mum sounds like the twin of mine. My mother will say something and then swear she never said it or alternatively she will twist something I say to sound really evil and then swear I said exactly that. It is so frustrating..
Lol what with you and your feet and me and my boob job we could spend a fortune just to be perfect and of course then there would be something else
Your situation with the therapist reminds me of when I go out with my mum and am around her friends. If they ask me a question she mouths the words with me....
My mum lives in Spain so I went to great pains to learn Spanish. I did really well and became pretty fluent.. When I went over there and started talking she would burst into peals of laughter, or just talk over me... so I stoppped..
One day though I went with her down into the local village. I was talking to the lady that ran the bar and I had this grammatical sentence in my head that I had been practising for ages. In sapnish I said to her. If I had the money I would buy a house in your village because it is so lovely... My mother said to me..
Mum..... what did you say
Me... If I had the money I would buy a house in your village because it is so lovely
Mum.... How dare you...right we are going home..
She then marched me back up to the villa and went mad at me.. she said words to the effect of ..."what will they think of me now... My daughter wants to buy a house in that village when they are all desperate to get out..." I mean to say.. What is that all about???????
I know that full on scornful familiy thing... I cried a lot and sometimes when I would cry they would laugh and all howl...
You are so right Stormy she does not want me to be sperate and she does not understand how I could possibly want to. Whyever would I not want to be a clone of her.. That makes me an alien..
Spyralle x
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Spyr,
Thank you. Love it. You could get your breasts fixed, and I could get my feet fixed, and it would never be enough.
How true.
And the fact that my sister and brother get along with Saint Mom while I do not is in no way a reflection on me. But that sure has taken a long time to figure out.
Stand your ground and keep posting.
KATE
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Thanks bean.
My mother has told me since forever that my problem was that I couldn't let go of the past.
The last time we had a family get-together was probably a year ago.
She kept bringing up things I don't even remember doing as a child -- might be true, might not.
I told her that I had taken her advice to let go of the past and that she should also.
Pissed the whole family off and have had a very peaceful year. Wiithout them.
KATE
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Dear Spy,
Is it okay for me to call your mother a shallow vindinctive twit?
Hops
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Hi Spyralle,
Girl, you're getting a lot of 'smother pressure'! (((((((((Hugs))))))))))
No, what you're doing doesn't make you a crap daughter.
teartracks
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Yes, you're a crap daughter- there now, I've said it, it's all out in the open, you're never going to take care of her forever and she'll have to find somewhere else to 'rest her bones'. I cannot think what is wrong with you that such a delightful proposition of someone descending to change your life by taking it over as a kind of waiting-for-death experience is not appealing. Now she'll have to take responsibility for herself, fortunately all she requires is a room and a tv which she will find easy to provide, and I think you'll find your guilt and sadness will more than compensate her for such a dull life though.
Sorry Spyralle, hope you could smile at that through your tears and thank goodness one of you has some common sense and maturity to think things through.
Don't expect to feel good immediately about all your decisions.
But make them anyway ((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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No you are not a crap daughter.
I am in the mother place and I live alone, planning where I will go (retirement home) when it becomes necessary i.e requiring assistance when I fall out of the wheelchair, which I did 3 times yesterday) and then contact a funeral home about cremating me when I die. Pay in advance!)
Daughter just needs a death cerificate to follow the requests in my Will, and I sent her all necessary documents, about 2 years ago.
Izzy
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Mine is subtle in her ways, and has always managed to make me feel 'never quite as good' as other women's daughters.
Depression has followed and difficulty with relationships as I always feel that I'm being placed in the wrong if I don't agree with him, her, whoever.
Nursie, I am with you there... My mother has always compared me to everyome elses beautiful and capable children. When I was young there was this girl who was my age and used to live across the world. My mother would say.."why can't you be more like C.... C is so good.....C can cook......C always looks lovely blah blah blah"... I am now 44 and she is still telling me about C.... and her accountant husband and their beautiful home and their von trapp children.... Yep I have always felt like I am rubbish... Dear God who would ever love me..????
Oh by the way my mum is not ill or disabled she goes to keep fit three times a week and line dancing etc...
Thanks everyone for your support... Write you made me laugh.....
Do you think she knows what she is doing.. Do you think she thinks.. I will say this cos that will make her feel guilty or do you think she just thinks I am crap and she is perfect. She told me that if I do not let her live with me then that is it our relationship is over!!!
Spyralle x
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To Spy:
Tell your N-mom, in response to her threat of "If you don't do what I DEMAND, then our relationship is over!" --- "N-mom, that is the BEST thing you can do for me! It has NOT been nice knowing you!" :P
Bones
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No, Spyralle, you are NOT a crap daughter...though I recognise a lot of the stuff on your list of why she likes to make you think you are - I've heard many of those! (Actually all of your mothers sound so familiar. Are we all sisters on the quiet? :lol:)
Re the 'our relationship is over if I can't come live with you' thing...I'm afraid I would be sorely tempted to say 'OK then. Your loss. 'Bye.'
I sometimes think it would be easier, horrible though this sounds, if my mother had once and for all decided she couldn't stand me and fully disowned me. The reason she hasn't, is that it would be admitting defeat in her thirty-odd-year campaign to make me over in her image. She can't accept that that will never happen, so she has to keep me around just in case one day her words sink in and I suddenly turn into 1940s Prude. Shudder. (Trouble is, cutting myself off from her would mean also cutting myself off from the rest of my family, most of whom I actually like and get on with. Tricky. At least they're on my side, if you know what I mean.)
(Is it any measure of my guilt that I feel bad saying this when she's at the moment, in a 'good' phase, i.e. not causing trouble? I'm holding my breath.)
Your mother is the one with the unacceptable behavior. It's not 'good' for daughters to have to jump through burning hoops for mothers who don't appreciate them, much as they would like us to. She will never accept that your life is your life - not hers to do with as she will - so it's up to you to do what's right for you. You deserve happiness, and you know you're not going to be happy with her breathing down your neck.
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Hi Spyralle.....
No no no no no no no no no, you are so not a crap daughter.....
You are someone who had a crap mother! Her responsibility, not yours and when you have a crap mother, you have to look after yourself, to look after your own sanity. That does not make you a crap daughter, however I can understand why you feel like you are.
If your relationship is over if she doesn't come to live with you, then that is her choice.....
I have a similiar situation with my bio dad.... He will go around saying to anyone who will listen how I have disowned him!!! What a terrible daughter I am..... And you know what the truth is:-
I asked him when he was willing to apologise and give, I would be prepared to listen - no response from him
I asked him what he was prepared to do to rectify the situation between us - no response from him
So how is that me disowning him? To me, this is just him not giving a flying f**k about me, and if that's the way he wants it, then so be it! Does that make me a crap daughter? Or someone who won't be manipulated into having a father/daughter relationship that is totally one sided and suits him?
You take care hon.... you know in your heart you're doing the right thing.....
Love H&H xxx
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Spyralle:
I haven't read the rest of this thread, only your initial post, so please pardon me if I'm repeating a lot of what other people have said.
My mother and I had exactly this argument for years. It was very difficult. I knew that she would never get along with my husband, and that the stress of having her in my home, day in and day out, would drive me over the edge. I offered again and again to help her find an apartment, but she always turned me down.
After a great deal of thought (and therapy, too), I came to the conclusion that while I had a responsibility to make sure that my mother was OK--in terms of money, medical care, etc.--I did not have a responsibility to make sure that she was happy. Her happiness was her own problem, just as everyone's is. And though she saw it differently, I knew that I had to stick by that conclusion, because it was right.
When it looked like she could recover from her brain injury, I did decide that she should come and live with us. She could not live by herself, even in an apartment, and I wanted her to have the security of living with her family. I deeply regret that I never got to do that; her condition deteriorated and she died last June. But I know that I made the decision to take her in out of love and from a place of freedom, not out of her having strong-armed me into it. All the difference in the world.
You are NOT a "crap daughter." Your mother is trying to give you a burden that is not yours to carry. Whether she ever realizes it or not--and of course the odds are against it--you have a duty to yourself to realize it and live it. She cannot take your freedom from you in the name of her own security. Life doesn't work that way.
You're willing to have her nearby, which wouldn't be easy, I imagine. That's a lot. The fact that she can't see that and choose to be happy is her problem, not yours. Please, please keep reminding yourself of that. You have offered to make room in your life for her. If the opening isn't exactly wide enough to suit her, she has only herself to blame.
Again, please forgive what is probably a very repetitive post. Time doesn't allow me to read through the thread right now, but I wanted to reply to your initial post. I've been there, and it's not easy. You're a very good daughter, Spyralle, and I hope you will allow yourself to feel that.
All my best,
daylily
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Thanks so much guys.. xxx
I really struggle with this. I didn't ring her on mothers day and now I am feeling guilty about that, but I just couldn't go through that conversation again. Instead I have written her a letter explaining that for the first time in my life I want my own space.. Interestingly enough I haven't posted it yet... Sometimes the silence and the not knowing is easier...
Spyralle x