Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on March 23, 2007, 06:47:29 AM
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Mom will be here when I come home tonight.
At least we can sleep in tomorrow...
I know it'll be okay. I just have two new boundaries I want her to respect (there will be passivve aggressive incursions, but I will keep redrawing thise two):
--please leave me alone for 15 minutes when I walk in the door. I'm in pain, need to feed the dog, hang up my coat, and lie down for a few minutes. Then I will come fix your dinner.
--please keep yoour candy dish in your own room, don't display it where I see it every time i walk to the kitchen. It will help me not binge.
That's it. If she'd do those 2 things it would help. I need to prepare to remind her over and over.
Hops
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Good luck Hops.. I hope she respects your boundaries.. I am thinking of you and sending you loads of love
Spy xxxxx
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Ditto what Deb said and another hug:
(((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))
Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, crushed down, full and running over, they will give to you. For in the same measure as you give, it will be given to you again.
Luke 6:38
You give so much and you will be rewarded for it Hops.
:D Sela
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((((( Hops )))))
Ditto what both Spyralle and Sela have expressed.
With warm wishes,
Leah xx
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So how did it go Hops? You ok?
Spyralle x
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Hey Hops my thoughts and prayers are with you and I'm sure you will get the peace and relaxation you undoubtedly deserve.
James
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Hops, I'm quite concerned. You know what the issues are, you have explained them cogently and well many times here.
I'm the last person who will tell you or anyone that you have no right to negative feelings about someone who drains and abuses you. But it's not at all good for your health to stay in such prolonged forced proximity to that person.
Here is something you wrote recently on the subject, where you were coming from a very centered and compassionate place...
I may have gotten off easy in N-land compared to others.
I am sure I have.
But still, I can't deny them their humanity.
When I think that way it twists me into a direction that feels wrong.
It's not the same as condoning their behavior or making myself vulnerable to them.
Not at all.
Just philosophically, I refuse to separate myself from them as another human being.
They are broken in ways that make them dangerous for me to be around them, so I won't be.
And I know some should be locked up and have the key tossed into the moat.
Don't mean to belabor the point but somehow I feel if I reach the point where I declare that anyone, at all, is not a human being, then I am less human myself.
Hops
and here is something that expressed a very different outlook.
In 8 years of living with Ma, I have had a few friends over a few times. We hustle up to my room like escaping teenagers to chat. It's very uncomfortable. Ma was and is always jealous of my relationships with friends, and it became easier to just stop trying to have any friends in.
One day, I will be having dinner guests too. I always loved doing that.
That has been one of the big sacrifices, and I will eventually be free to enjoy feeling I have a home.
But not yet.
(My friend who has a very narcissistic mother as well as a sense of humor came by and met her and emailed me afterward: "Damn, she looks healthy.")
:shock:
Hops
That post above actually implies that you are looking forward to your mother dying, so that you can have her house all to yourself for good... and this new thread is definitely closer to the second attitude than to the first.
I thought a long time about putting the actual words here. Realized, though, that if I just described what I'd read elsewhere and interpreted it, that's subjective... you need to see the actual words, to understand my concern.
Come on, Hops. If your emotions and thoughts towards your mother spend more time in the second place than in the first, maybe you need to think about you first, for a while. Make some arrangements for respite care, adult day care, an assisted living center.
You're going to tear yourself in two trying to maintain the first attitude you express above so eloquently, while the second attitude is burning away in your gut whenever your mother is in the same room with you.
You're setting yourself up for depression and somatization, migraine or other kinds of chronic pain, trying to literally force yourself into an emotional position that you just won't be able to sustain unless you get more space, more time, more freedom, the opportunity to recharge your batteries.
Please think about checking with your county or state Department of Aging or Senior Services or whatever it is. Check with your church. We're not a very civilized country with regard to the 'social contract', so eldercare is not consistently available, it's a patchwork of city/county/state and faith-based services, but there may be more options accessible to you than you think, depending on where you live.
Just having a day sitter come in a couple of times a week...
You need a break, something that is reliable and that you can count on, something that doesn't require your mother to collapse or have a health crisis / hospitalization in order for you to be able to catch your breath. You can't afford to become dependent on her misfortune to give you respite, it's not good for your soul!
I'm really worried that the tensions in this situation are going to break you, otherwise.
Please take care of yourself!!!!!
[Edit in: I have never been more serious. My father predeceased my mother because the constant strain of coping and caregiving and damage control simply consumed him. She was overweight, had asthma, emphysema, high blood pressure, constant hospitalizations for pneumonia and UTIs, and he had NONE of those problems, yet he died first. Please think about this, it's so important!]
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Boy this is a nightmare I can see happening down the road with me, but she has her mom in assisted living and my grandpa was in a home so maybe I am off the hook. My love and Concern to ya!
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That post above actually implies that you are looking forward to your mother dying, so that you can have her house all to yourself for good
Gee, Stormy, I really don't see this. I have never gotten this impression from Hops.
I'm sure Hops can explain more fully (if she wants to).
CB
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That post above actually implies that you are looking forward to your mother dying, so that you can have her house all to yourself for good
Gee, Leah, I really don't see this. I have never gotten this impression from Hops.
I'm sure Hops can explain more fully (if she wants to).
CB
Er CB,
I did NOT write that ....... Stormchild did, and, would suggest that taking part of the sentence out of context of the post, is somewhat precarious.
With regard to my two posts to this thread, firstly, I have offered kind support, then, secondly, expressed my Voice, by sharing my very real life experience, with my mother.
Leah xx
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Oops! Leah, I'm sorry.
I'm getting old.... I went back and edited it.
Love
CB
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That's ok CB
you're not old - just a little tired, just like me :)
Leah xx
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Hi CB
I posted those quotes, not Leah - Leah is just affirming that somatization is a very real effect of forcing ourselves to stay in toxic situations. In Leah's case it was killing her and she got away in time.
Now... read the second quote again, slowly and carefully.
What is it that is preventing dinner guests from coming over to see Hops where she lives?
What has to happen in order for Hops to be free to enjoy feeling she has a home?
Why would one of Hops' friends say 'damn' about Hops' mother being healthy?
And why is that seen as amusing?
Put the pieces together.
Hops has been squeezed into a tiny little corner of the house by all of the adjustments she has had to make, in order to accomodate someone who will never be satisfied no matter how much she gives.
She knows that narcissism is incurable and that it gets worse, not better with age.
She knows that there is only one likely escape from this situation available to her, which is for her mother to be gone, permanently.
And that means either death or relocation to a nursing home or assisted living center. Or relocation on Hops' part, but there's some circumstance that prevents that - I don't remember what, but it's not an option for Hops to move out, for some reason.
I focused on the death angle because of the 'joke' that 'friend' of hers made. The next line practically writes itself, doesn't it? "Damn, she looks healthy. She might last another twenty years!"
CB, nobody should have this kind of internal tension to contend with if there's anything at all they can do about it. Nobody should have to live in that toxic an atmosphere if they have any possible alternative.
Hops is trying to accept the unacceptable, just like my father did, just like Leah did, and it's going to take a toll on her, it is already taking a toll on her. Her friend is joking about her mother being healthy as if this is an inconvenience?
Not good. Not good. These are the things we hate ourselves for thinking... but when we are trapped and have no peace, no privacy, no possible way to escape, they are things we cannot help but think about. That creates a huge amount of internal tension.
And that kind of stress literally tears people apart. It killed my father.
I don't want to see Hops' health fail, I don't want to see her end up in the hospital with back problems, I hate to think of her trying to have some kind of life in one upstairs room as though she had no rights of any kind in her own home. I hate to think of her agonizing in years to come because she felt more relief than grief when her mother passed away.
Good grief, am I being a codependent about this, or what? Hops isn't my father. Her mother isn't my mother. I'm putting my nose in something that is really none of my business. The siren song of the Karpman Rescue.
Thanks, CB, for prompting me to think some more about this. It really is none of my business.
[Edit in: and that business about feeling more relief than grief when someone passes away? And feeling awful about it? That would be me, with regard to my own mother. Which belongs on a different thread, because I think most of us are likely to face the same dilemma when the Ns in our lives pass, sooner or later.]
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What's wrong about feeling more relief than grief when someone passes away?
Especially if one had a troubling or worse relationship with the person who passes?
Seems sane to me. Not saintly. Just sane and somewhat "normal".
nn
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((((((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))))
Love,
teartracks
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What's wrong about feeling more relief than grief when someone passes away?
Especially if one had a troubling or worse relationship with the person who passes?
Seems sane to me. Not saintly. Just sane and somewhat "normal".
nn
Absolutely agree, in fact I put up a separate thread about just this point.
There is a huge taboo about this issue, though.
A person has to be awfully strong and solid to be able to deal with this kind of situation at close range for a long time.
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Busted.
I have a compassionate core that expands when I'm at peace, and then I don't feel awful things about my mother.
But at other times I feel exactly what you said, Stormy. I look forward to her passing so I can have this house my dad built all to myself. It's true.
I had a sense of space (I played loud music! I put out a different tablecloth! I MOVED a silver tray!)
during the weeks she was in PT that was intoxicating.
The adjustment back since Friday has been trying, but I feel okay.
I feel guilty not about neglecting her, because I don't....but the greedy and wicked thought about the house--yup. I haven't unpacked my own belongings in so long...imagining being able t do that...
But. Once that day comes, I will find out. And I'll either be staying or going and if I have to go, that will be hard ... but I will make myself happy and cozy somewhere else.
So meanwhile, I need to stay in the present and enjoy my days. My small room is a pleasant place, really. And I do have my dog! (Whom Mom calls her dog, which began right after hers died.)
Hops
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Wishing you peace, Hops, starting at the center, solid as a rock, and enduring as the stars.
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Thanks, Stormy.
It's a beautiful day here, and that helps.
Mom had and rough night so we were both up and down.
Hops
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Oh ((((((Hops))))))))
I don't know how you can live with your mom. I would go nuts. I go crazy after an hour of being with mine.
All of this thread is true... and awful... and... true. Honestly, I wonder how I will feel when I don't have to deal with being treated with disprespect and like an object. I just don't know. I feel like I should feel guilty... but I am not sure I will.
Storm, it took great courage to point out these difficult truths. Hopes, you are so brave to face all of this.
Love, Beth
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Hey CB,
What it was, was, I was backsliding there.
I really am okay.
I had just had 3 weeks to feel some space, and she came back, peeing on the fireplugs, so to speak. I had to adapt to her presence again and she was acting out her resentment at having been stuck in PT when she thought she didn't need it. She's calmed down and so have I.
She not only doesn't want to move into assisted living, but we can't afford it. Only way she goes into such care would be nursing care, following some future incident. We'll just keep taking it day by day. I'm normally pretty good at distracting myself!
Thanks for caring, hon.
Hops
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This won't last forever Hops.
Sending you patience and earplugs and a good book and vitamin pills and prayers and a big
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hug))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Sela
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Hops,
You're amazing!
You inspire me.
teartracks
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I had a T say to me once, it doesn't matter what a fantasy is.
You're a good person because you don't act on them.
After I asserted the new boundaries and saw her respect them I felt an unexpected wave of love for her last night, went down to give her a hug and tell her I was glad she is home safe, and she was snoring.
It really is true that when you stand up to an N, they often fizzle. (She even had issued her usual threat to "call my brother" the first evening, so I went to the phone a short while later, called him myself, and put her on the phone. I think she realized even that gambit won't work any more. He's got his hands full with his own family and I had kept him well in the loop while she was ill.)
Hops
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CB, Hops, All,
Isn't it funny that in a way it's OK to wish your husband dead, but no matter how evil your parents are that seems a horrid thought? It just struck me when I was reading CB's answer here...
Love, Beth
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CB and Hops,
Don't feel bad I often looked at Social Security to see if my ex was deceased and when I found nothing. I would *sigh*.
I never got a dime of child support and never enforced it. Out of sight/Out of mind. My kids got to grow up with out that crazy. If I enfoced support he would of enforced visitation. So we both won.
Love
Deb