Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: rosencrantz on March 22, 2004, 06:36:42 PM
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I've had over twenty years of one on one therapy, group therapy, treatment center for three months, just about every twelve step program for 15 years, and no where did the subject of narcissism come up. Ever!
And yet both my mother and the man who caused so much pain in my life obviously are narcissits and I have all of the characteristics of ACON.
I just don't understand how nobody even mentioned it to me. Do you have any ideas about that, since your discovery was your own as well?
Hi Sally - I wanted to answer your question but we got sidetracked a bit!! :wink: And I thought it was worth a separate thread as others might have some ideas and thoughts, too.
I was wondering how to answer your question but the answer arrived this morning in the guise of a little book by Alice Miller called 'Banished Knowledge'.
She was taken by surprise by discovering HER abuse too - so much so that she resigned from the International Psychoanalytical Association, revised her previous books and went on a crusade to make the world stop taking abuse for granted.
Her thesis is (my paraphrasing) that we talk ourselves into believing our parents love us 'because' they abuse us or in spite of the fact they abuse us - and this is perpetuated down the generations and reinforced by our culture. So everybody is basically taking it for granted that our parents (who we are expected to respect) do what's good for us. And that means all the helping services (cos it consists of people with the same drive) take it for granted, too.
The responsibility is put on us to be good and not speak ill. Even when we intellectually grasp it, it usually doesn't go far enough and we still end up in denial.
Nina Brown in her book 'Children of the Self-Absorbed' makes it clear that we need to check out whether we're being 'childish' in making a judgement of our parents or whether they are really Ns - but you're unlikely to get much help from the establishment in doing so, so it's difficult to judge which side of the bridge you should be on.
Here's the point where you have to take responsibility for what happened/what happens to you (which is part of growing up and maturing out of our own narcissism) and there's the point where you can 'name' the 'wrong' behaviour of the parent and start healing the damage (which is different to blaming them).
Like you, I've spent a great deal of time in therapy and personal development, some of which was actively harmful - I was ready to come out of my cocoon of 'unknowing' 20 years ago and I was consistently thrown back into it by people I trusted to get me out of it!! What a tragic waste, eh!! I took responsibility for myself like a good girl, like a 'good' patient or client or group participant. And never once blamed my mother. I didn't even have a vocabulary for what she did - and so everyone else could do it to me, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From now on I shall wear my ACON badge with pride! It's a badge of honour as it proves I've lived a life of self-sacrifice, braved painful self-knowledge and learned a whole new language - and that's the least of it! I'll just go and give it a little polish!! :wink:
BTW Sally, in answer to your other question, I learned about narcissism less than a year ago. Since then, I have spent an absolute fortune on Amazon and it was the best investment I ever made - and it wasn't an investment in books, it was an investment in MY SELF!!! :wink:
R
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I belive my mom is an N- I am curious to know what the ACON characteristics are?
Thanks all,
Renee
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Renee,
Check out the thread called "grrr"...there's a good list imbedded in there.
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Or, perhaps, if you are just starting out, consider more the N characteristics of the people you relate to. I was always too confused about who I was to find lists much use - and, anyway, I'd just use them to beat up on myself.
Try the book list or do a search on the internet for narcissism. There are good and bad sites out there so reserve judgement until you're on more certain ground.
Good luck
R
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Hi notalk,
You can also look in Children of the Self-Absorbed. In the beginning of this book, there are a series of questions that cover a lot of different aspects of the characteristics of a N. I found this helpful both in coming to terms with the ways in which my parents had or did not have N qualities, and to help myself think about how those qualities affected me.
Rosencrantz - thanks for the mention of the other Alice Miller book. :) I've only read The Drama of the Gifted Child so far, and this looks interesting.
Wildflower
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Thanks Rosencrantz, I think you nailed it. You and I have walked a similar path, and I am about to follow yours with respect to the books. Finances will allow me to go crazy at Amazon within a couple of weeks. I feel somewhat obsessed at wanting to know all I can about this.
Thanks too for the "badge of honor" thought. It's appropriate, perhaps the logo for the badge should be "I survived."
I have read all of Alice Miller's books, and have been a part of an online bulletin board group (like this one) that is devoted to her work and recovery from child abuse. I am not active with group just now but still read the emails that come from them. It's a very supportive group of people who have had worked really hard to overcome their childhoods.
So glad you moved this over to an individual thread, will be interesting to hear people's thoughts about it.
One thing I've also wondered about, how are all of you doing recognizing Narcissists now that you have come to understand so much about them? Hugs. Sally
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Sally - I know already that there's one beyond 'I survived' and that's 'I stood strong'.
And, although it's a subtle difference, I see on the horizon 'I stand strong'!!!
And beyond that, I don't know how many steps beyond, well, I guess, come to think of it, there's...
I'm freeee!! :wink:
I can't wait for THAT one!!!
R
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Rosencrantz: Wish there was a "thumbs up" smilie for "I am free"! I vote for that one!! Hugs. Sally