Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: teartracks on March 27, 2007, 12:29:16 AM
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Hi All,
Confrontation and conflict seem to be a fact of life. How do we know we've accomplished something positive by participating in confrontation or conflict? And what is the difference in the two?
teartracks
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Hi tt
I have learned so much from this board.I have learned from both .
There was only one time I was brave enough for a confrontation and I got all the right words.But the energy did not change.
Only years later did I see what the truth was about my situation.
But we can learn from both .But how much more wonderful to learn from joy.
This peace can only be found from within .
I struggle each day to reach and share this with my love ones.
somedays I do better than others.
Dropping baggage from the past has helped me .
I wish I knew more All I know for sure kindness is a good thing.
If resolution comes from conflict and a closer understanding this is growth and can be healing.
If a loving heart grows from conflict this is good.
so much love to you
m
p.s. The said baggage were my own misconceptions and old unhealthy patterns...
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There is no such thing as a relationship without conflict.
Conflict is a part of life. It exists as a reality of any relationship, and is not necessarily bad. In fact a relationship with no apparent conflict may be unhealthier than one with frequent conflict. Conflicts are critical events that can weaken or strengthen a relationship.
Conflicts can be productive, creating deeper understanding, closeness and respect, or they can be destructive, causing resentment, hostility and divorce.
How the conflicts get resolved, not how many occur, is the critical factor in determining whether a relationship will be healthy or unhealthy, mutually satisfying or unsatisfying, friendly or unfriendly, deep or shallow, intimate or cold.
Conflicts run all the way from minor unimportant differences to critical fights.
There are conflicts of needs, wants, preferences, interests, opinions, beliefs and values.
Styles of Conflict Resolution:
Avoiding or denying the existence of a conflict.
Many people prefer to give in rather than struggle through the conflict.
Some people get mad and blame the other person.
Others are competitive and have to win. They use their power and influence to control and get their way.
Some appear to compromise but are subtly manipulative in trying to win more ground.
A few people can control their anger, competitive, I-give-up feelings and self- serving tendencies, and genuinely seek a fair, optimal solution for both parties. This is a creative integrative approach.
Three Types of Healthy Solutions:
Win-win. Most conflicts are in areas that have more than two alternatives. If you do not like the choice your partner wants, and your partner does not like your choice, with a little more effort you might be able to find another alternative that you both like and want.
No lose. When you cannot find an alternative that you both want, look for an option that is acceptable to both of you, or negotiate an agreeable compromise. Neither gets everything he/she wanted, but each gets enough to be satisfied.
Win-lose equally. When the conflict is over an issue that has only two choices, one person will get what he/she wants and the other will not. There will be a winner and a loser. If you are fair with each other and generally half the time each gets your own way; it will be easier for each of you when you don’t. The loser will trust that next time or the time after that he/she will be the winner.
My thoughts and understanding ..... when there is a matter of conflict, within any form of relationship, professional or personal, confrontation is to bring the matter of conflict out in the open, for discussion.
It is by healthy confrontation that one can hope for a healthy resolution to an issue of conflict.
Of course, denial or avoidance, cannot cope with confrontation.
Leah xx
Edit: Listening, Evaluating and Negotiating skills, are exercised and strengthened, during healthy confrontation and resolution.
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The Gift of Conflict
"No man is an island" said John Donne in 1624, and while he may be guilty of sexism, he appears ahead of his time in other ways as he expresses a basic ecological and spiritual principle, going on to say, "...every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in all of mankind."
The great naturalist John Muir expressed a similar sentiment in this 1906 writing, "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." Indeed there is a seamless web to which we are all inextricably intertwined; a cosmic, universal web in which the pure essence of life flows through all creation. The electronic connections of the World Wide Web are just beginning to externalize in material form what has always existed in energetic form.
And yet, if we are all connected in this manner, this means that whether we like it or not, we are inevitably in relationship with all things and all peoples. What is the nature of this relationship? As discussed in Buddhist psychology, all relationships in the mind and in the world ultimately take on one of three forms: we're either neutral; we like; or we dislike the other that we’re in relationship with.
It seems self-evident that we would want to collect as many in the "like" column as possible: we naturally move towards those people, experiences and places which resonate harmoniously within us. But this betrays an important truth: some of our best teachers and most profound lessons come from those experiences and people we dislike, from those who "push our buttons", from those we cannot stand to be around. And why is that? It’s because these experiences and people force us to see life from a different perspective, to get out of our self-created, self-limiting cocoons and filters of reality and consider alternative possibilities. They force us to grow, to learn, and to expand our beliefs about ourselves and the nature of life. Conflict energizes any system and when approached with a positive, constructive attitude, leads to creative solutions and ideas. For conflict prods and encourages us to stretch further, dig deeper and learn to be better people. It’s easy to be compassionate and loving with those that treat us well, but the real growth comes when we can treat everyone we interact with in a loving manner, and in so doing honor that universal essence which flows through us all.
Well, you might say, that sounds good in theory, but how do I deal with my resistance to such people and experiences? Here are some helpful tips:
-seek out those that have a different belief system or world view than you do. Really try to understand how and why they think and believe the way they do. None other than Sigmund Freud once claimed that it was "intellectual suicide" to only talk to people who believe what you do (though he was also famous for surrounding himself with "true believers" and not speaking with others who dared to opposed his ideas!)
-if someone you meet elicits a very strong negative feeling in you, examine that feeling in detail. What is it about their ideas or personality that grates you so much? Do you, as Shakespeare said, "...doth protest too much?" That is, is there something in YOU that is similar to this person that makes you want to run the other way? In his wonderful book "A Path With Heart", Jack Kornfield relates the tale of his returning to New York City after living in an ashram for years and leading the life of a renunciate. He felt completely at peace and that he had mastered the art of feeling serene in any situation. However, while waiting for a family member in the waiting room of a salon, several women looked critically at him and the way he was dressed, and suddenly he was flooded with enormous anger welling up inside of him. He realized that his spiritual training had not touched an entire other dimension of life, the interpersonal, and this experience led to his entering psychotherapy to understand why he reacted so strongly.
-learn to see each person you meet as your teacher. What does the person next to you right now have to teach? Your spouse? Your boss? Your neighbor?
Everyone truly does have something to teach you about life if you are open to it. Remember Hermann Hesse’s Siddhartha, who, upon meeting up with the beautiful Kamala, remarked, "Such women will always have much to teach." Yes, and so will people you perceive of as materialistic, selfish and greedy business owners; unpleasant and unhelpful service workers; and loud and arrogant personalities, to name just a few.
Look into your past and ask this question: who does this person remind me of? Have I been holding onto a grudge, a hurt or a resentment for many years that this person has come into my life now to remind me of? If so, explore ways of resolving your own issue that’s getting projected onto this person. This person may be a signpost of something in you that may need attention.
So don’t be afraid of conflict. Rather than avoid it, embrace and invite conflict into your life!
Conflict is an opportunity to learn, to grow, to stretch and become a healthier, more creative and evolved person. Let each conflict help to transform you into the healthiest, most loving person you can become.
http://www.relationship-institute.com/freearticles_detail.cfm?article_ID=522 (http://www.relationship-institute.com/freearticles_detail.cfm?article_ID=522)
Oddly enough, I read the above article a few weeks ago, was unsure about posting it here on the board.
Personally, most thought provoking and indeed, insightful.
The Bible contains historical, personal accounts, of conflict and resolution.
Love to you all.
Leah xx
Edit: No idea who quoted this, but it makes sense to me .... " Conflict is inevitable ~ Resentment is optional ~ Resolution is up to you "
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How do we know we've accomplished something positive by participating in confrontation or conflict?
Well, let's say as a metaphor, an aggressive, malicious creature jumps on our back and intends to stay there and torment us. If we repeatedly and forcefully back ourselves into a brick wall and as a result the creature falls off and slinks away we know we have accomplished something very positive because our burden is gone.
And we have accomplished something positive for the creature itself, as it now knows there can be a cost to attaching itself to others, a lesson many people are unwilling to teach. At the very least it will have learned to choose its intended victims more judiciously in the future.
mud
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I think that conflict and confrontation are a means to an end. And we always hope that the end will turn out good! If we don't confront and have a conflict (I guess I look at them as almost the same - it depends on how the other person reacts "oh, didn't know you felt that way" is a positive - whereas "what the *&ck are you talking about?" is a negative that leads to conflict) then we have NO chance of using our voice, stating our boundaries, telling what our needs and desires are.
So, I guess:
confrontation = + positive with a positive potential for a good result
conlict = - negative result of a confrontation
The other day a good friend of mine showed me a real estate listing online for a house in the 3.6 million dollar range. Neither he nor I are in the market for a house like that, so it became a really fun, short entertainment looking at this house with a "gentleman's room" (billiards and office), observatory, grand foyer, indoor pool and whatnot.
Well, I went on a walk the next day with N and I told him about the house, just describing it and saying wow it was cool! Can't believe there's a house like that within a couple miles of us, etc. He was really quiet and said NOTHING. So I took that as a cue that he found that topic boring or had no interest. I said " so what are YOU thinking about?" In an attempt to change the subject.
Wow.....................he went into one of those weird convoluted N discussions. You know the ones.....expressing his annoyance and irritation that "people" ( he wouldn't deign to accuse ME of being one of those people directly) will WASTE their time doing stuff that doesn't motivate them to achieve. HOW DARE THEY? ETC, etc.
So we have this weird conversation. We get home and I'm trying to process it all. He goes and lays on the couch and turns on the MISS USA pageant which he has taped.
I explode inside, going, okay....what's the difference between looking at beautiful homes with no chance of owning one and looking at beautiful 20 year old beauty queens with no chance of having one?????????
I have a couple choices:
1. Confront
2. Let it go and have no resolution, understanding or peace.
I chose to confront!
And it was fun, actually!
Dandylife
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My first instinct when reading this was to say that Confrontation is used to resolve Conflict.
When itr comes to defining them, though, I am reading through the answers here and wondering if there aren't a zillion different definitions for each word.
How about this instead?
What emotional response does each word provoke in you???
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Confrontation is used to resolve Conflict.
Which in itself, surely, is a postive?
To confront an issue, is to have the courage to face it, deal with it, with integrity and honesty.
Fear or anxiety of confronting, dealing with, facing a problem or an issue, brings about denial or avoidance, sadly.
Great topic Teartracks.
Leah xx
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My former definitions???
Confrontation = Not in a million years
Conflict = RUN
:lol: :lol:
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Verrrrrrrrrry helpful and wonderfully timed post.
Great article, Leah. Thank you.
And what you said, Bean, about reserving confrontation for people you truly love...also helped me.
(Reminds me about better ways of thinking about my boss.)
The article saying look for what in yourself is triggered by the other peron...
yup.
Uggh, but helpful.
thanks all,
Hops
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Hey Y'all,
Thanks for all the posts. There's lots to think about, absorb and apply to my life.
I love the way the board is perking along without conflict now.
teartracks
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I think there are many situations where people want or are only capable at that time of different things...that no amount of confrontation will resolve.
I try not to confront people very often, and never in anger any more. I can be a formidable person when I act angry and I don't think it has ever acheived anything for me personally long-term.
For me being kind is more effective, and letting go the outcome I desire and letting the other person do what they need to do whilst makign them aware if necessary that my thoughts on the matter may be different!
I've been meaning to read more about non-dualism but I haven't had time. We are too dependent on models of right/ wrong, good/evil. People and behaviour is more complicated than that.
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WRITE,
What you say makes a lot of sense.
Neither have I accomplished much being angry except when I went into recovery from childhood abuse. It was necessary to purge myself of that built up anger. As conflicted as I felt with my Nabuser, the purging was for me. I mean, what is there to gain from trying to get a narcissist to understand that they've done great harm to you? I'm glad that part is behind me. Purging myself of that anger left me with a laundry list of things/acts that I will never willingly allow to be done to or against me. I have a voice and I have some power now. Didn't have that as a baby. What I consider to be my normal or healthy anger (not the anger I experienced on coming out of denial and going into recovery) has been expressed on behalf of others who were being mistreated.
Anyway, I think I've rambled and gotten off the subject of conflict, but I feel better! :D
teartracks
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I think there are many situations where people want or are only capable at that time of different things...that no amount of confrontation will resolve.
I try not to confront people very often, and never in anger any more. I can be a formidable person when I act angry and I don't think it has ever acheived anything for me personally long-term.
For me being kind is more effective, and letting go the outcome I desire and letting the other person do what they need to do whilst makign them aware if necessary that my thoughts on the matter may be different!
I've been meaning to read more about non-dualism but I haven't had time. We are too dependent on models of right/ wrong, good/evil. People and behaviour is more complicated than that.
Welllll......
a funny thing happened to me at work recently.
I've been working for this particular organization far longer than I've ever worked anywhere else, and I've been on this particular job within the organization longer than I've ever stayed with any previous employer.
I'm talking close to a decade, OK?
I have about as solid gold a track record as anyone ever has had. You give me something to do and it gets done right, and it gets done on time, and there aren't any loose ends flapping around, either.
So: about two weeks ago, I get involved in something that has to be assessed by various members of my task team. I send them the information, and they send me the assessment. One of them asks me to obtain an electronic copy of the information for him.
There's just a couple little hitches. First, I only have it on paper. Second, I have to ask an outside organization for the e-copy. Third, we're prohibited from doing that, and complaints do get made, vociferously, when we do it. Fourth, the guy could just as easily have Xeroxed it for himself, it's only about ten pages.
So I email the guy that I'll see what I can do, but he needs to know it's 'against official policy' for me to ask. Nudge nudge, wink wink. I figure he's bright enough to understand this means I'll make a tactful attempt to bend the rules but I can't promise nuthin'.
Not five minutes later, this fellow shows up at my office and tells me in no uncertain terms that he called the external contact himself, because he's tired of my ... bullshit.
Verbatim quote, my dears.
After I get my jaw back up off the floor, I decide that I have bloody well had enough abuse to last me a lifetime, so I start working on an email to this guy's boss... and his boss.. and my bosses.
I'm about a third of the way in when the poor guy decides he wants to come back for more, but this time, it didn't quite work out to his expectations. Basically, I flayed him alive.
I raised my voice, and it remained raised for a full five minutes. I used language that I was certain the gentleman would understand; I explained in no uncertain terms that I work nights, weekends, and holidays, that I handle a full one third of the work for the entire department although I am one sixth of the nominal manpower, that I have had multiple complaints lodged against me for violating organizational policies in order to get information for ungrateful jerks like himself in the format in which they request it, and that I am sick and tired of receiving nothing in exchange but verbal and emotional abuse.
I waxed eloquent about our relative salaries, the ease of promotion for him and nonexistence of any parallel path for me; I spoke at length and candidly about the extent to which I have gone to get him and his peers the things they need to do their job, and the delight I take in having my teeth kicked down my f---ing throat by ungrateful b----rds like himself by way of thanks.
When I had finished speaking my piece, I threw him out of my office, the door of which I had insisted should remain open so that no passerby would have ANY doubt as to what was occurring, or why.
Immediately following which, I went to his boss, and HIS boss, and HIS boss, and told on myself, with the full backstory included.
And would you believe, it was universally agreed that the gentleman was no gentleman, and that I had shown great restraint and decorum in speaking as I did.
Now. To complete the picture.
I have been working since July 1983. I've been with this organization since July 1995, and in my present job since Easter 1998. This episode related above is the first time in my entire quarter century working life that I have EVER raised my voice to ANYONE, no matter how egregious their behavior, no matter how abusive their language, no matter how unprofessional their actions.
I also made this quite clear to everyone with whom I spoke, and since most of them have seen me on this job for the better part of the decade plus that I have been here, they know it perfectly well.
A funny thing has happened.
People no longer seem quite as inclined to try to take advantage of me.
People who previously seemed to regard me as some kind of cross between a patsy and a doormat seem to have stopped doing that.
People have relaxed around me. I've been invited to lunch, and people have asked to join me when they see me in the lunchroom. Not to gossip about this, either. Simply to eat with me.
Oh - and - coincidentally - the gentleman who started it all has admitted to everyone involved that indeed he did, and that every word I spoke to him was more than deserved.
He'd done this to me once before, you see, a few years ago. But then, I chose the high road, and turned the other cheek. I guess he felt that it was perfectly safe to go on doing it.
I guess he knows now that this is no longer true, and I suspect that a few other people have begun to realize that self-restraint is not, after all, the same thing as weakness.
Will I ultimately be penalized for this? Only time will tell. But for now, paradoxically enough, it appears that what I did was somehow something that many people felt was long overdue.
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I should add that I have immediately reverted to my usual quiet and mannerly self, on the job, and took pains to reassure everyone that at my present rate, I'd likely be having another wing-ding at about age 75.
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WTG Storm,
I applaud you.
I evny your ability to assert yourself i.e. grab all the proper words to make yourself heard and understood, all the steps you took.
That was a great accomplishment and a good example of using your voice.
Love
Izzy
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Oh, Iz, I used my voice so hard that it was husky for a full day afterward... I have never in my life done that. But you know what? I felt myself make the decision to do it. It really was a split second decision: and I was never anywhere near losing control of myself. I just... decided it was high time I... yelled.
I've been quiet here lately, as folks may have noticed, partly because I've been busy as all getout with real work [not fallout from this episode, there has been none so far, the guy apologized and I am forgiving him - it's a work in progress, though] and partly because I've been processing this, and still don't entirely know what happened.
I stood up for myself - but I've done that before, and because I've been polite and kept my affect in check, it's been brushed aside.
Not sure exactly what the moral is, except that it apparently took a willingness to express my anger, and to confront, in order to resolve - or at least, get acknowledgement of - the issue.
This is the exact opposite of what we are taught and told.
That's where the paradox lies.
Edit in: (((((Iz))))) - thanks so much for being here just now. Here I am, revealing something about work and feeling all alone with it here... again... I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you posted.
((((((((((Iz))))))))))
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You are welcome Storm
I hope you have a little smile of happiness on your face for having been successful at expressing yourself--loud voice or not--and having it work in your favour. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Again I applaud you
love
Iz
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The only way out is through!
Storm, I bet that guy felt like he'd chewed a box of feenamint! :D :D :D :D
teartracks
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Everyone,
Thanks for all the good posts.
((((((((moon))))))))
((((((((bean)))))))))
((((((((CB123))))))))
((((((((leah)))))))))
((((((((mud)))))))))
((((((((dandylife))))))))
((((((((beth))))))))
((((((((WRITE))))))))
((((((((Storm))))))))
((((((((Iz))))))))
I feel guilty for hanging a thread and then not commenting back on all the things you say that speak to my heart and soul. I have to do computer time in spells because of the old backache. Cyber hugs and thank you's just never seem adequate , but I do thank you from the bottom of my heart.
teartracks
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Hi bean,
That is indeed a good site.
Good to see you posting. :) I miss you when you don't.
tt
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Thanks, all ... again. I'm hijacking the thread, but I did want to add a couple things that I only saw clearly this morning;
The first was that it did me no good whatsoever to treat this fellow as though there was no such thing as right and wrong, when he first abused me. All that did was teach him that he could abuse me with impunity. Which is no longer true, obviously. And to me, anyway, what he did was absolutely, unquestionably, totally wrong.
The second thing is that I've been forced to stand my ground on a couple of occasions in, of all places, this forum. Although I didn't like having to do it at all, going through the experience seems to have taught me something about standing up for myself, and the lesson appears to have been solidly incorporated somewhere inside.
Kind of strange, because the occasions here that taught me whatever they taught me weren't times when I 'lost it' and yelled. They were times when I stood my ground and stayed calm and stuck to the facts, or disengaged when I could see some kind of emotional turmoil under the surface issues and could tell that there was no possibility of constructive interaction, because the thing that was really broken was nothing I could fix. So I'm not entirely sure how the lessons learned here led to my being able to 'dress someone down' effectively and credibly in realspace, but I know there is a solid connection.
Weird. I was just sitting here just now, and a line from a song I love came to mind. I'm going to go get all of it and put it here. I think the 'lesson' is summed up by it very clearly!
The Gambler
On a warm summers evenin' on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a-starin' out the window at the darkness
'til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.
He said, "Son, I've made a life out of readin' people's faces,
And knowin' what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you don't mind my sayin, I can see you're out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice."
So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta play it right.
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.
Now ev'ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away and knowin' what to keep.
cause ev'ry hands' a winner and ev'ry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is dyin' in your sleep."
So when he'd finished speakin, he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness, the gambler he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.
~~~~~
That just about sums it up, I think... and I also think I'm going to go work out an accompaniment for this on my gee-tar, and add it to the repertoire. 'Bout time.
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Stormy,
That's one of my favorites, too!
CB
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Hi, good things can always come from conflict as without it people bottle it up and then a persons life becomes a misery a little like my own did. I am now confrontational when before I woudlnt say boo to a goose, I stand up for myself when I deem it necessary and fight my corner when I think I am right. The problem comes when you fight your corner and win and then realise afterwards that you were wrong or perhaps just like the feeling of beating someone down. Now luckily I dont ever have a feeling of liking beating someone down, which is obviously what an N does and enjoys, anger leads to hate, hate leads to fear, fear leads to suffering, wow I never knew that a little green fella could be so inciteful but then he was a master of the force wasnt he (actually I think I got Yodas words mixed up but Im sure you get the gist :lol: ) I digress however, I do stand up for myself and then feel that I am in the wrong in which case I instantly feel guilty and make my apologies so therefore everyones feelings are out in the open which is I feel healthy and lets nothing simmer on under the surface. A cofrontational yet apologetic approach leads to happiness and a sense of equality for all.
I have to say though that I look at confrontation as being conflict, as confrontation is a result of a conflict of interests so therefore a confrontation occurs. So good things can come from both conflict and confrontation if both parties are willing and able to look at both sides of the story and are also willing and able to apologise and to accept an apology. If a person is unable or unwilling to to do these things then divisions, anger and discontent could insue resulting in the answer that in this instance nothing good would come from confrontation/conflict although thats for both parties, in this instance one of the people would come out of the conflict feeling powerful and the other would come out feeling weak. So you could say for a nasty person something good would happen for them but for a nice person something bad would happen to them or vice versa as nice people can do over nasty people too. If both parties are nice then one person would be made worse although that dependds on what th earguement was about and who was write and wrong and now Im all mixed and Ive got to bid on something on ebay so Ill stop here... DOH!!
And I hereby rest my case sitting proudly on the fence! :D
Peace be with you my fellow Jedis and im off to do be some bidding!!
James
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I always love a real life solid example to demonstrate.
Here's my latest conflict:
NH decided last June-ish to get a tax benefit and also put some money aside for college for daughter by "giving" her about 10K in income from the business as a W-2 (in actuality, it was 4 gold coins plus $4000 into a Roth IRA). Daughter was only vaguely informed of this action ("cool - you got some gold coins and money in your Roth IRA"!) Nothing was discussed at the time about how taxes would come up in the future.
Well, I did daughter's taxes yesterday (she's 17) and figured out that because of this W2, she ended up owing $977 in Federal taxes plus $511 in state. NH says well, hahahaha she'll have to find a way to pay it, knowing full well she has about $500 to her name of her own money.
I said it would not be fair to make her pay it, for several reasons, but mostly because he got a tax break AND he didn't involve her in the decision making process and he didn't inform her in a timely manner that the taxes would need to be paid.
He at first refused to pay it, saying something like, "I'm always the one to get screwed."
Wha?
So I said okay then I guess I will pay the taxes. And that pisses me off.
We went through a little bit of confrontation, with me explaining precisely why this would not be fair.
He agreed to pay.
But then something interesting happened.
We avoided each other all night and most of today.
I went to him earlier today and said, hey I think I know what's missing from our earlier discussion - why we both feel so distant from each other.
It's what we learned in therapy - everyone needs validation.
I didn't give it to him ("I can see how you might feel that way.")
He didn't give it to me ("I see your point and even though I disagree, I'm willing to do this for our family.")
It is REALLY important, to SAY these things.
If you feel them, yet don't say them you will feel shortchanged and so will they.
So, please remember when you have a conflict, part of the resolution to make it a win/win and not a win/lose, you must give the other person validation.
Even if you disagree totally, you can say, "IF I was in your position, perhaps I'd feel the same."
Dandylife
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Hi dandylife,
Ouch for your daughter. A good example of how the unsuspecting can be pulled into a scheme completely not of their making.
tt
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Storm, your post #16.
I stood up for myself - but I've done that before, and because I've been polite and kept my affect in check, it's been brushed aside.
Not sure exactly what the moral is, except that it apparently took a willingness to express my anger, and to confront, in order to resolve - or at least, get acknowledgement of - the issue.
A funny thing has happened.
People no longer seem quite as inclined to try to take advantage of me.
People who previously seemed to regard me as some kind of cross between a patsy and a doormat seem to have stopped doing that.
People have relaxed around me. I've been invited to lunch, and people have asked to join me when they see me in the lunchroom. Not to gossip about this, either. Simply to eat with me.
The first was that it did me no good whatsoever to treat this fellow as though there was no such thing as right and wrong, when he first abused me. All that did was teach him that he could abuse me with impunity. Which is no longer true, obviously. And to me, anyway, what he did was absolutely, unquestionably, totally wrong.
The second thing is that I've been forced to stand my ground on a couple of occasions in, of all places, this forum. Although I didn't like having to do it at all, going through the experience seems to have taught me something about standing up for myself, and the lesson appears to have been solidly incorporated somewhere inside.
I think your subconscious has led you to the epicenter of your personal integrity sometime in the recent past. It just happened to manifest in the confrontation with the 'gentleman'. It's been there all along. You just hadn't given it expression. I think that is why your coworkers are treating you differently and I think it is why the effect was different. They all sense and respect the integrity with which you handled the conflict. I purpled in some of your comments that make me think this.
teartracks
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Hi Storm,
On rereading my preceding post, I wondered if I said what I wanted to say in a confusing way. Sometimes, what I write doesn't say what I want it to say. That's because I'm not a good enough writer. :x :o
First, I wasn't inferring that you had no integrity before the fray with the 'gentleman'. Indeed, I admire you for the integrity you've shown consistently here on the board.
I'll use something from my own experience to try and communicate what went through my mind as I read your account of the confrontation with him.
As you know the N is my life is my mother. It all hit me like a ton of bricks seven years ago when I came out of denial. I dragged my guts around in the gravel most of those seven years. I was very, very angry at her.
Until fairly recently I was not able to express what I felt inside except in an angry, in your face way. It seemed never to get me anywhere and even made me feel worse because I didn't feel in control of my emotions. But eventually a day rolled around where apparently I had studied enough, experienced enough, detached enough so that I could confront, respond, say what I needed to say because it was my truth, my right to stand up for myself and take care of myself. I knew that it was not only my right, but it was the right thing to do. I wasn't conscious of the change that was occurring in my heart and soul. It just happened, one day she overstepped my boundary, spur of the moment. I said what I needed to say to her and that was that. I didn't feel 'bad' about standing up for me. I knew I'd found a new part of me that had been there all along, but I'd not given it voice. Starting then I began saying what needed to be said, what was right and I didn't feel 'bad' for it. The difference was that I was standing up for what I believed was right. From then on, I have felt a greater respect for myself. When I began to speak on behalf of myself, it felt to me like I had found the center of my own personal integrity. Before, when I reacted in anger, I didn't have the same respect for myself that I do now Lord, I hope I'm making sense!
Unlike the positive gestures you received from your coworkers, my Mom holds to her old attitude regardless of how I express myself or how right what I express is. That will never change. But I am way more in touch with me now than before and it feels awfully good. Being able to express what is right for me comes from a different place and it settles well with my soul.
Did I do any better this time?
tt
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Hi tracks
Thanks for the extra explanation! I was trying to figure it out, and this helps. I thought maybe you meant 'integrity' in the sense of 'wholeness' as in, healing, which is certainly true; not to worry, I didn't think you were saying I was a no-good fibber mcgee until the day I told this fellow off...
And yes, I see what you mean. I was angry, definitely, but more important, I was CERTAIN that I had a right to be angry, and more important still, it truly didn't matter to me, any longer, whether or not I also had PERMISSION to be angry, from anyone else.
I had my own permission, which was all I needed.
Thanks Tracks!
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Exactly!
:) 8) :) 8)
tt
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The difference is in how it makes you feel.
towrite