Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: poetprose on March 28, 2007, 12:34:11 PM
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Here is something that I just don't get......I'm wondering if anyone here can relate
I was put on anti depressents a few years ago, these pills (Celexa) made me go completely manic , this in term along with other symptoms got me diagnosed with PTS and Bipolor disorder of the skitsoeffective type (see things and hear things that are not there)
So now I am "exposed" which is just fine, I admit i am ill, and if i ever have an episode i know my hubby will have me commited if i am a threat to self or family ( as it should be), so i am taking responsibility for my own illness..... I don't want to hurt my family, but i dont burn down houses, or deliberatly hurt people.... comit crimes or do drugs
But here is what i don't get with a few members of my family whom I really beleive has N' traits and sociopath traits..
it is like they can recognise and make coments about other people " his lights are on but nobodys home", or . "that guy is missing a brick in his foundation" etc.....etc
they don't believe in physciatry period............ or physcologists, yet they recognise the "symptoms" of mentall ill people
also in terms of criminal activity...... it is like "oh people make mistakes" blah blah..... to them it is just fine to comit crimes and justify it but mental illness ...........no way that is a real real bad thing
doesn't make sense to me at all ............ I thought well maybe these family members are speaking from denail*... but their arguments against physciatry , their beliefs have logic to it....
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Hi poet
I have bipolar .It is a mood disorder not a personality disorder,part of my family accepts and greatly supports me and there are the others that deny this fact or outright mock me for having this disorder.
I live with the rolllercoster ride of this disorder many people do.Moods get really intense .Any one let alone a family member that mocks you for living with this difficult disorder would be an unkind person.
I have experienced bipolar used against me, but my children and hubby do not they are kind and supportive.I would think someone mocking another for living with this kind of mood disorder may be in denial or their cruel actions would reflect on how they view people and the world.I have never had to be hospitalized but have experianced fear and panic mostly .The triggers that produced these feelings have been overcome greatly and understood by me now.
moon
p.s let me say any one that would mock another for their pain it would be their actions that were unkind not the person .Everyone has the oppuntunity to grow and understand .But dealing with ones pain does not depend on others people's reactions to the hurt.That is your own job to do so.I am working hard on this after being hit hard by other's .As long as I can say I am doing all I can for self and kids and hubby to work on this I am being true to self .What others do or say is for each person to
deal with or not.
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Thankyou for responding....Moonlight
When were you diagnosed? I've only been diagnosed now for 4 yrs, Although looking back now, I can see where symptoms appeared starting in grade 10, after the death of my sister and mother one year later, I sort of fell through the cracks, and my father was not well enough to even recognise my symptoms ,
you are blessed to have good support in regards to your illness, my best support comes from friends online, although my children do support me... they just have trouble accepting mental illness
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Hi Poet ,
I was diagnosed 4 years ago and this explained so much it is a mood disorder everyone has mood swings it is just the pendulum swings are wider with bipolar.
Anti depressants might not be the right choice and with some
bipolar's not be helpful you can check a website called "crazymeds .org" the guy is bipolar and funny and right up to date on meds for bipolar stuff.
Love the name crazy meds takes all the stigma away into laughter.
Bipolar is a mood disorder not a personality disorder.Another site is the"pendulum resources".
love to you
moonlight
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After going manic, my pdoc said I was one of those ones who can not take anti-depressants, so she took me off them, switched me to lithium and seroquel..
I have not taken any medication for 2 yrs now and am stable.... however i do my own self talk therapy , when the moods get bad
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Poet prose
I did not know you lost your mom and sister ????
I lost my twin brother (we were 27) and soon after my mom .
And along with childhood trauma my bi polar really was off and running.
I am so sorry to hear of your loss of loved ones...
love to you poet.
m
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Poetprose
My personal experience is I have never been a threat to anyone in a physical way and have no fear of that ever occurring.
With bi-polar 's what would most likely be to be un kind to self or take on the guilt of other family members as one's own .
Most bi-polar people feel they are worthless and only after a lot of therapy reach a point of seeing self worth even a glimmer.
Knowing and understanding childhood trauma has led me to a kinder place within
and has replaced fear with much need calm.
moon ....................................my kids do not find me too scary tee hee and my hubby thinks I am funny good thing huh
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Poet prose
I did not know you lost your mom and sister ????
I lost my twin brother (we were 27) and soon after my mom .
And along with childhood trauma my bi polar really was off and running.
I am so sorry to hear of your loss of loved ones...
love to you poet.
m
Yeah it has been a rough journey in terms of losses for me, my sis was 16 when she commited suicide ( I barely remember her now)
My mom died one year later of pancriatic cancer she was 48 yrs old ( i think my mom died of a broken spirit, but can't prove it)
My dad died 14 yrs ago, he had just retired on his 65th birthday and he died within 3 weeks of his birthday...
I'm sorry your losses as well......... it is diffcult at times isnt it?
have you been able to come to terms with loss, and what tools helped you ?
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Poet ,
As far as my twin and mom we were all much a like..... I keep their love in my "heart pocket".
Their love is always with me they knew how dearly beloved they were to me .
For a long time I was so depressed (ten years)
Now I just remember our love for one another and smile and am grateful for the love we shared.
moonlight
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Smile :-0
"Heartpocket" .... There is a poem in that !
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Yeah, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. When my brother committed suicide, the funeral was packed. All these people, relatives and friends, who had not even thought about how much pain he might have been in, never lifted a hand to help him - rich folks, too - came to moon over his ashes. I spoke at the funeral and it was all I could do not to say, "Where the hell were you when he was suffering?" Family members came to console us, esp my mom, but not one person had ever offered any help.
Yet we hear all the time the "bad childhood" excuses, the abuse excuses, etc. for criminals. The only childhood I ever heard of that was worse than mine and my brother's was that of my friend whose father chained him in the backyard like a dog - around the neck - with a chain long enough for him to seek shelter from the weather in a run-down garage. For four years! And none of us ever committed any crimes.
What was your crime? None.
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Moon and Poet,
You know I have written about my n friend her behavior and I believe she is an N to the core. She lacks empathy and is horrible to her children emotionally. Very self entitled. The typical N things.
BUT, I'm confused now. She had told me years ago in her early 20's her mom had taken her to a psych where she was diagnosed with Bi Polar and put on meds. She had met her husband and he talked her off them. I had known her for the last 12 years up until recently we parted ways. She is a a hype with doctors, she has had everything (but not really) She self medicates with Perks and Vic. I have seen her go through really (low moods) to really (high moods). The odd thing is they are opposite. When there is really problems (where you can't see in front of you) she's fine. When she should be happy, she's depressed, functional but real low down. You know where you can hardly hear the person talking. I did notice that always, always in November to Jan she's on a very low point. But her moods switch from today low to 2 weeks like this. Then high for months, then low to high within the same day. She also is very compulsive *shopping* where she financially destroyed herself. Always has to have food to where it goes bad because you cannot eat that much.
Not one bottle of shampoo maybe 15.
Now the part that confuses me is can she be narcissist and bipolar?
Does this sound bipolar to you? When she fought with her mother for attention and validation she would cry to me and talk in a voice of a 5 year old.
So I dont' really know whats going on with her. I would like to be compassionate and support her but she has so much N in her I cut her off. She is either a very nice person or a very mean person. There is no inbetween.
So now I'm very confused
Love
Deb
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Hi ya guys
The answer is bi-polar people are all different!!!!!!Bi-polar is not a personality thingy it is intense mood swings my mood swings took the form of being afraid and fearful, scared sitting in a corner at times paralyzed by fear....
not angry .I have been married 33 years to a very kind person If I were violent scary He would not be around.The other pole for me was depression sad......
Sure I get upset Shopping yeah I have done that.Since being on meds I do not spend money.....On meds My fears have been calmed down...
ALL BI-POLAR PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT
I had my first fuss with my 14 year old raised my voice I was so upset I did that I went to my nearest church to talk to a priest he said I have never seen a mom so upset they raised their voice to their teenager.
I can not stand the idea of hurting anyone
I do have a situation now where a relationship looks like it can not be healed one I have given my life to try and heal.....The other person seems just not to want to have it.
I am close and protective of my hubby and kids.Simple answer bi-polar is a mood disorder and not personality disorder like nism is..An N is manipulative cold etc none of these things are apart of who I am.
I hope this gives more insight another thing I have been going to shrinks for 20 years I am also am able to say sorry and admit to mistakes n's are always right even when they are wrong.
moonlight
......the meds I take are for bi-polar not like Valium also I am in a support group and individual therapy and working hard I dearly love my friends and girls and hubby and think of their feeling deeply
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Moon,
Thank you for explaining everything. She does have mood swings but now I think it is all Narcissism. She has every last trait of one and then some. I never heard her say she was sorry unless she said she was sorry for herself.
I was hoping that maybe there was a little light shining through that she could be treated if she was bipolar.
I just think about her kids life with her and wish they could find a miracle drug for N's. And she did have therapy but never stayed for long.
CB
No I don't feel guilty about breaking the friendship. She was too much to handle when her true colors were showing with the emotional abuse against her children. I could put up with her for years (blow her off when she got on my last nerve) but it got to involved when she was attacking her kids. My temper was going to get uncontrollable and I wanted to kick her ass. I had to back right out and save my self.
I was hoping that I had mistaken her for an N for a moment and if she were bipolar there was some hope for her kids with medication. But no CB she N to the core. God help her kids.
Love
Deb
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You know I have written about my n friend her behavior and I believe she is an N to the core. She lacks empathy and is horrible to her children emotionally. Very self entitled. The typical N things.
BUT, I'm confused now. She had told me years ago in her early 20's her mom had taken her to a psych where she was diagnosed with Bi Polar and put on meds. She had met her husband and he talked her off them. I had known her for the last 12 years up until recently we parted ways. She is a a hype with doctors, she has had everything (but not really) She self medicates with Perks and Vic. I have seen her go through really (low moods) to really (high moods). The odd thing is they are opposite. When there is really problems (where you can't see in front of you) she's fine. When she should be happy, she's depressed, functional but real low down. You know where you can hardly hear the person talking. I did notice that always, always in November to Jan she's on a very low point. But her moods switch from today low to 2 weeks like this. Then high for months, then low to high within the same day. She also is very compulsive *shopping* where she financially destroyed herself. Always has to have food to where it goes bad because you cannot eat that much.
Not one bottle of shampoo maybe 15.
Now the part that confuses me is can she be narcissist and bipolar?
Does this sound bipolar to you? When she fought with her mother for attention and validation she would cry to me and talk in a voice of a 5 year old.
So I dont' really know whats going on with her. I would like to be compassionate and support her but she has so much N in her I cut her off. She is either a very nice person or a very mean person. There is no inbetween.
So now I'm very confused
Love
Deb
Hi Deb here is a link for you to read on the various types of Bipolor disorder
http://www.mixednuts.net/bipolar.html
It can be confusing, and i do believe there are misdiagnoses ,
Your friend does exhibit bipolor symptoms ... and I also think she exhibts some Borderline personality Disorder symptoms also kknown as BPD , the way you describe the self medicating, the abuse to her children,,,,, ( I don't do those and I have Bipolor 1 )
The shopping sprees are classic with Bipolor disorder type 1, but with me Instead of shopping "manically" buying everything I see, I would play every cd in the house to get my high...... because with mania music sounds better, colors are brighter, food tastes better, olfactual senses are heightened..... everything is sharper , your mind is clearer... and thoughts come and go through your mind so fast you cant keep up "Mania"......... you get poetry comeing to you, your eggo is flying.... you think you are invincible, but this is only temporary , once the mania is medicated you are stable.... again and the ego is normal ... where as with some personality disorders your eggo doesnt go back to stable..... (I'm just now trying to understand it all myself)*
And it is true that mania is the high "euphoric" stage and the depressive side of bipolor disorder/ aka manic depression is the complete opposite very low.....mine did not last for weeks and weeks because i was medicated and the medication makes you stable again, so mine only lasted about 2 weeks, also the weather can attribute slightly to this mood disorder
As for the talking like a child .. i think this is more like NPD or BPD
The manic phase of Bipolar I Disorder is often misdiagnosed as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
read here by Sam Vaknin
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal71.html
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But here is what i don't get with a few members of my family whom I really beleive has N' traits and sociopath traits..
they don't believe in physciatry period............ or physcologists.......
Oh sure they do, they just pretend they don't. They probably believe in it more than psychiatrists and psychologists do.
The reason they believe in it is because they know there is something terribly wrong inside their heads. The reason they pretend they don't is because they think that by doing so they can make it harder for others to know just how unbalanced and disturbed they really are.
mud
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Hi
Hard to say and diagnose others I know what my shrink has told me It all comes down to love
I can not diagnose another only tell of my experience as an example.
I do know we can only heal ourselves not others and our real responsibility is to be true to self and grow ......
love
m
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Mud has explained it perfectly.
When my exNh visited my home he recoiled in horror, literally, never before had I seen such an expression of fear on his face,
as he viewed my recently acquired books on NPD and co.
I will never forget that look on his face, as he stood staring at my books, then looked at me, afterward, I did feel genuine compassion, and sadness, for him, from a distance.
Sadly, to this day, he has not entered into any counselling or therapy, despite encouagement from both myself, and, our son.
Leah xx
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Oh sure they do, they just pretend they don't. They probably believe in it more than psychiatrists and psychologists do.
The reason they believe in it is because they know there is something terribly wrong inside their heads. The reason they pretend they don't is because they think that by doing so they can make it harder for others to know just how unbalanced and disturbed they really are.
mud
that makes sense too..... I just find the logic i hear from my suspect N, and sociopath thinking so full of holes..... and contradictory
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poet,
I will bet that if reflect on their comments, you will see that for one person, they will excuse behavior, while with another they will say that the person is stupid or insane. And it will be entirely dependent upon their whims. That is how my parents are. And they think psychology is bunk too. Which is silly, because many of our relatives have needed help. And my parents also surely need help, although they will never, I am sure, stoop "low enough" to get it.
I am an alcoholic. I stopped drinking over three years ago. I live by the principles of AA, although I haven't been as active as I would like to be lately. Like you, I have made that choice for my life because the alternative is to kill myself and live in an insane manner. My mother was so gleeful about that. I heard her whispering to my aunt about how "she just had NOOOO idea...". Etc. Which is not true. I had so many problems while with them and she just said, "Oh well" and turned her back on me with every one.
I am also on Celexa, although for me it works well. I took Paxil for a while and it made funny tings happen in my brain... sort of painful glitches. I am glad to not be taking it as those scared me.
Poet, you are doing what is tright and being a mature and wonderful adult about it. We can only work with what we are given :)
Lots of love,
Beth
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Deb,
I would say my mother has NPD and OCD. She also needs to shop continuously and buys food constantly, allowing it to just rot in the fridge. I think, because they have no spiritula outlet, or any other healthful way of expressing themselves, they "shop and collect" to fill the void. I think they get so bored with their "bubble existence" (they live in such a tiny and false world) that they tend to get a bit stir crazy.
((((((((((poet))))) (((towrite)))))))))))
I am sory to hear about the suicides in your families. I think that is why it is so imprtant that we get treated. I can't tell you how hopeless I felt at various times. We need to help ourselves and show our children it is OK to ask for help.
Love, Beth
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I am awed by the strength, wisdom, courage and clarity I hear from all of you.
thank you for sharing it.
Hops
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Great discussion. Thanks everyone.
We need to help ourselves and show our children it is OK to ask for help.
This is soooooooo true, Beth. We need to learn how to express our neediness to our 'safe' people so that their warmth and constancy can minister to us.
tt
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((((tt))))))))
Thanks for putting my thoughts into even nicer words and furthering the idea.
((((((hops)))))))
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poet,
I will bet that if reflect on their comments, you will see that for one person, they will excuse behavior, while with another they will say that the person is stupid or insane. And it will be entirely dependent upon their whims. That is how my parents are. And they think psychology is bunk too. Which is silly, because many of our relatives have needed help. And my parents also surely need help, although they will never, I am sure, stoop "low enough" to get it.
I have made that choice for my life because the alternative is to kill myself and live in an insane manner. My mother was so gleeful about that. I heard her whispering to my aunt about how "she just had NOOOO idea...". Etc. Which is not true. I had so many problems while with them and she just said, "Oh well" and turned her back on me with every one.
I am also on Celexa, although for me it works well. I took Paxil for a while and it made funny tings happen in my brain... sort of painful glitches. I am glad to not be taking it as those scared me.
Poet, you are doing what is tright and being a mature and wonderful adult about it. We can only work with what we are given :)
Lots of love,
Beth
Beth congratulatons with your sobriety!!!!! Good for you...... I use to go to Alonon and ACOA, I really found the adult children of alcohilic meetings quite helpful for me a rough time in my life
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Thanks poet!!! Life is much nicer this way and the principles of the program are good for anyone whether they have issues or not. It is always good to try to be a kind person, I think! :)
((((((((((((((poet))))))
Love, Beth
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The manic phase of Bipolar I Disorder is often misdiagnosed as Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
read here by Sam Vaknin
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal71.html
hi Poetprose, I wouldn't take 'Pathological Narcissism' as a gospel on mental illness or personality disorder, it's a collection of interesting ideas that's all.
Neither condition should be 'diagnosed' as a result of one episode, it's a pattern over time. And as someone else points out- every person is in any case individual in their manifestation of either condition.
Labels aren't always helpful I don't think, and it's stereotypes which mean people assume all bipolars must be grandiose and violent for example.
I have been thinking and writing more and more about this, and especially violence. Very little violence is due to short-term chemical imbalance outbursts-it's much more about faulty thinking and attitude.
Violence happens in a pattern too- and the precursor is what the violent person believes about how they are entitled to behave.
As a bipolar if I were ever violent ( which I never have been ) I would see it as unreasonable and my responsibility to fix and prevent it recurring; in some ways the stereotypes give people a 'let-off' by assuming that person's self-control is impaired or norms of expectations on behaviour should not be applied to them. That's simply not true.
Anyone who is so out of control that violence is a norm for them needs to be taking that behaviour to a psychiatrist or psychologist and if it truly cannot be controlled then they are the small minority of people who are unsafe to be out of hospital.
Unfortunately so many social norms exist around violence that many kinds of violence are tolerated, encouraged and excused.
If abuse is the systematic use of a behaviour to manipulate or control someone else then any person who is violent more than once and is aware they have been violent- they need to take responsibility for that and recognise their element of choice and abusiveness in what they are doing.
Being drunk/ drugged/ mentally ill or impaired is no longer a 'get out clause' for bad behaviour, in the same way that other disabilities or inequalities aren't.
:oops:Here endeth the lesson...sorry, obviously I have been feeling more strongly about this than I realise!
When that guy said to me a few weeks ago 'I wouldn't want someone ( ie me ) calling drunk late at night and making demands' it's made me feel like I should be more proactive about bipolar and what it really means, it's not adequately represented by the handful of out-of-control people who seem to have created the public image.
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I just find the logic i hear from my suspect N, and sociopath thinking so full of holes..... and contradictory
How can it be otherwise.
They are trying to reconcile the real world and their facade, which are irreconcilable.
They have the task of not only hiding their disorder at all costs and pretending they're normal, they are compelled to coerce normal sensible people into pretending the same thing.
No doubt it's pretty tough to sound logical when they're perpetually pushing the rock of convincing the entire world that lies are truth and evil is good, up a hill, only to have it roll back down to the bottom every time the world gets a peak at their true self.
mud
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I just find the logic i hear from my suspect N, and sociopath thinking so full of holes..... and contradictory
How can it be otherwise.
They are trying to reconcile the real world and their facade, which are irreconcilable.
They have the task of not only hiding their disorder at all costs and pretending they're normal, they are compelled to coerce normal sensible people into pretending the same thing.
No doubt it's pretty tough to sound logical when they're perpetually pushing the rock of convincing the entire world that lies are truth and evil is good, up a hill, only to have it roll back down to the bottom every time the world gets a peak at their true self.
mud
Actually they don't even need to sound logical, just "convincing" and that to me is the M.O of a con...." lie and deny" the pharisee creed