Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: teartracks on March 31, 2007, 04:25:37 PM
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Hello everyone,
Last night, I was invited to the home of an acquaintance (actually this is a case where I almost say friend rather than acquaintance) for dinner. I knew all but one of the four other people. One arrived after the meal to have wine and chit chat since they had been to a day long meeting a hundred or so miles away and had already eaten. The menu was roast lamb, some fussied up red potatoes with French herbs and wilted spinach, all served in a beautiful dining room on lovely china. By my guage, the stage was set for a fun evening with the special effects being the exquisite food served in beautiful surroundings.
Cast of characters:
Host: Successful decorator with an expansive client base in at least two states. A little reclusive in personal life. Prefers being the magnet that draws others. I wouldn't classify this person as magnanimous, however.
Person I'd never met: From what I gather, old south money (and let me tell you, there is a BIG difference in old south money and any other kind), classic education, used self-identifier "I have a math background" early on in conversation.
Most known to me of the four: Young, smart, sales, extrovert, high energy, narcissistic leanings of which she is aware, highly motivated to be all she can be physically (aerobics instructor for fun) mentally and spiritually.
Late arriver: Special Ed teacher. Gifted comic. Everything, even the most serious subjects are given a comical twist. Sucks up all the oxygen upon arrival. Won't shut up and got drunk.
Me: Introverted, overly intense and serious, dry humor occasionally, don't do much socially, but definitely not a social phobe. Very protective of those who can't protect themselves. That may translate to identifying with the underdog. Judicious with my twenty four hours a day.
I don't like leaving a social occasion feeling like my brain hurts the way my feet would if I wore four inch, pointy toed shoes walking on broken pavement for three hours (which I dont). And that's how I feel most of the time when I leave strictly social occasions. In a way, I think the evening would have made for good theatre, here today and gone tomorrow. Maybe the part that doesn't fit me is that I feel I must contribute something of substance to the mix, when in reality I would have more fun sitting back and viewing it as theatre where one of the actors might dip into the audience and use me as a prop in his act. I didn't think I had my panties in a wad over this, but it must have been pretty heavy on my mind for I woke up in the wee hours telling myself, You know teartracks, you only have to do two things right in this life. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Hence, my subject line, How does one go about finding the right social fit?
teartracks
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MMmm, interesting question, tt.
We are all different in what we're comfortable with. Me? I am an introvert. I get drained by being around people. So I have very selective dinner parties/ get togethers with a very select few, and then shoo them out the door before I get a headache. I usually have a lot of fun as long as it's short and sweet.
Others, get energized being around people. But I'm the opposite.
I read, get out the violin, get in a bubbly bath to get energy.
we all have our different needs in this regard!
I think the TV sitcom "Friends" puts forth a fairy tale existence of a group of people who like each other and spend alot of time together - I don't see that as real life.
Dandylife
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TT - I think you got it - I would have more fun sitting back and viewing it as theatre where one of the actors might dip into the audience and use me as a prop in his act. I think doing this is "being yourself" and that it not only would be more comfortable for you but also would work well for those around you. I think you would find that your humor would come out more easily, that is to say more flowing. For myself, when I have felt I had to contribute something of substance to the mix then what I offered never felt exactly right and left me with a sense of discomfit that might cause me to wake in the night and wonder and reach for calming purpose.
In spite of the dark side of some of the cast of characters it sounds like the dinner was fun - was it?
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Yummy..... I love Roast lamb, with a little mint jelly, shared on a diner plate with fussied red roasted potatoes, ....
I just don't like "fussied" up conversations that sometime accompany those types of diner parties....... but then again, sometimes these light pretentious chit chats, can lift me, elevate me to a lighter frame of mind...... so that is a good thing ( sorry Martha)
If I am comfortable mentally, spiritually, emotionally in my skin and most* times I am at home in my own skin, I can fit in anywhere... but there have been times when i am not standing on solid ground at all......... and nothing seems to make me feel like i fit in anywhere......
did you enjoy the conversation the company?
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Hey, I reckon the Freinds scenario can exist but probably not with that many people, Ive got 3 extremely close freinds I can joke about with as in friends and also trust implictly, its just a shame it took me 10 or so years to weed out the N's from the larger extended group. I have to say that fitting in socially is not for everyone and sometimes we all need to be alone and if you wake up in the night worrying about it then perhaps these people arent for you. You sound to nice to have an N and a self obsessed comic as your social group, or perhaps thats just me being too judgemental again as I do, doh! Friends are friends but sometimes they arent if that makes sense, you need to get out there and find some people you get on with better and when you do can you pass their number on to me too lol, you cant have enough good people in your life and whats saying? if you have 5 or more close friends then your are a very rich person.
Peace to all
James
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Hi dandylife, GS, poet, & James,
Did I enjoy the dinner? Honestly, I don't think that I enjoyed it. GS helped me see that I gave my own answer without realizing it in my original post. Maybe the part that doesn't fit me is that I feel I must contribute something of substance to the mix, when in reality I would have more fun sitting back and viewing it as theatre where one of the actors might dip into the audience and use me as a prop in his act.
James, you are right, it is the 'core group' of friends where the give and take seems more balanced. I used to have that before I moved to a new town. I miss being able to get my best friends together spontaneously. Guess I have my work cut out for me...
Poet, the food was exquisite. Martha, eat your heart out.
dandylife, it's true, we're not one size fits all, are we?
Thanks all 8) 8) 8)
teartracks
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TT..
After my wonderful retreat with the women last night, it's hard to think a dinner party is a test of your "substance". Hell, if I had a party I'd invite everybody I like and if a few are introverts who want to sit back and soak it up that's fine with me because I invite them because I like them for who they ARE.
That said, I think a good way to find your social fit is to do things with other people that make you smile. Things you LIKE to do, where everyone is making the effort together to make something good or beautiful. So...whatever your joy or talent is, just follow that to people who enjoy the same thing.
Choirs form bonds, and celebrate after.
Habitat volunteers the same.
Artists paint murals.
Gardeners join ranks to make urban green spots in poor neighborhoods.
Animal lovers volunteer together and trade dog stories.
Theater buffs do all those great roles behind the scenes.
Etc etc.
What would be your pleasure...that others also do in company?
Hops
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Hops,
This one really, really appeals to me. :) 8) :) 8)
Gardeners join ranks to make urban green spots in poor neighborhoods.
tt
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I like to think that a gathering of people would have at least one thing in common.
I don't socialize, but when my phone rings, I know it is a telemarketer or someone with a computer. (exaggeration)
I spent 4 years going out to homes of senior women learning the computer and most have reached a point that they only need a quick answer, but we still chat about what they have learned.
I still like to think that a gathering of people would have at least one thing in common.
Izzy
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Iz,
One thing in common? I'm going to think about this and when I figure it out, I'll let you know. The answer will be new news to me too.
teartracks
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Hi TT,
Don't know what urban area you're in, but I bet this organization has links to others:
http://www.grist.org/comments/interactivist/2006/02/13/frillmann/ (http://www.grist.org/comments/interactivist/2006/02/13/frillmann/)
Rodale Press, which founded Organic Gardening magazine, also sponsors these efforts...there are many more organizations, some political, some just gaggles of altruistic gardeners...
luck!
Hops
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Hi CB
I am social because I go out, that is, went out, to work, instructing on computers? Is that what you meant? Well it could be taken that way, but has ceased: but we did have one common interest, the computer.
In day of yore, socializing was card games, Scrabble, dancing, eating and drinking, just talking as we were with family or friends.
Now I can do everything on the computer except eat and drink, can't dance anyway, and might or might not see a workmate in my hour at the office on Wednesdays. I go to therapy. My phone rings about work or computers.
No! I am not social. I saw a woman I know, at the Drugtore last week, who noticed me first and called out. I said quietly Damn! Now I'm going to be held up with a bunch of whining.--then I turned around, smiled, said "hi" brightly and brilliantly (she even said I looked good and that my eyes were sparkling) listened to her whine, then said "I really must get my prescriptions filled and back home to work", and off I went to free myself of a 'claustrophobic feeling'--as well as the feeling she might ask to borrow money!
:shock: :shock: :shock:
Izzy
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Hi Iz,
I have one. Don't like it. :shock:
Superficial Christians... for heaven's sake!
Maybe that's why I woke up in the wee hours speaking to myself that Bible directive. Interesting. :(
tt
PS I know there are more but I don't know if they are worth searching out.
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~ ditto ~ Izzy and TT
Superficial and Shallow anyone.
My message to them is this PLEASE have the courage to "Let your Yes be Yes" and "your No be No"
I thank you :)
Leah
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CB,
I like your comparison of rearranging life to adolescence.
Thanks for the links. I'll certainly check them out.
Iz is clever isn't she. I don't think I would have ever thought to analyze along those lines. But I WILL in the future. Thanks Iz. With one recent exception (*an Oscar party), Edit in: Now I'm thinking what a contrast between the two evenings. One would expect the Oscar party to be blatantly superficial and the Friday evening dinner party to have substance. I think I'm all mixed up! I almost always leave social events with the same feeling I had Friday evening. It simply was a waste of time. Don't know if that is a fault of mine, that I have unreasonable expectations or what. I figure that while I'm trying to straighten out my thinking in other areas, I might as well work on this one along the way. I knew I'd get good input here on the ole board. :)
Thanks
tt
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ok TT and Leah
What are you talking about that was about Christians?
What did I say that led you there?
I feel 'stupid'!
--then I see you post about clever, and analyzing along lines.............
What did I do?
See why I failed life?
Izzy
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Hi Iz,
I still like to think that a gathering of people would have at least one thing in common.
Iz,
One thing in common? I'm going to think about this and when I figure it out, I'll let you know. The answer will be new news to me too.
Hi Iz,
I have one. Don't like it.
Superficial Christians... for heaven's sake!
Maybe that's why I woke up in the wee hours speaking to myself that Bible directive. Interesting.
tt
PS I know there are more but I don't know if they are worth searching out.
--then I see you post about clever, and analyzing along lines.............
I would never have thought to analyze the group at the dinner party along the lines you suggested of having at least one thing in common.
Don't know exactly wht leah was saying. Say it another way leah, OK?
teartracks
PS Iz, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that you failed life!
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Hey Iz,
I got totally lost too.
No worries...
Hops
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PS Iz, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that you failed life!
TT
Well TT, I love the fact we are in the same age group, cause anyone in their early 40s is another generation. Did you ever live with no electricity, no phone, a two-holer outhouse, complete with Sears catalogue, and a battery radio?
Them were the days--the days of anal parents and lies! Then in '47, I was 8 and we moved to another farm with all the amenities.
I was afraid of the telephone and hydro (all the switches and outlets)
I think I was the super-sensitive kid of the bunch who took everything to heart, and too seriously, and believed that I still knew nothing.
I had to ask you to explain something that I took for granted and "having at least one thing in common" seems so simple, but then I seem to have a different point of view although not dangerous............I hope!
Hey Hops
I was writing as you posted. You were lost too? Well I feel better except that would mean you failed life too!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OMG Why wasn't life easy??????????????????????????????????
love
Iz
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~ ditto ~ Izzy and TT
Superficial and Shallow anyone.
My message to them is this PLEASE have the courage to "Let your Yes be Yes" and "your No be No"
I thank you :)
Leah
Hi Izzy and Hops
By way of explanation, mine was anyone who may be superficial or shallow, just a generalism.
I don't perceive any of us to have 'failed in life' - look at us, here we are, working hard, making sense and moving forward.
No failures here my dears :)
I need to go on a retreat, like Hops did.
And I can snore too !! :)
Leah xx
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How Does One Go About Finding The Right Social Fit?
Seems a pretty simple question to me. Perhaps it isn't and I'm just a simpleton. :oops: :roll:
If when you are being yourself you are comfortable and enjoying yourself, you have found your fit.
If when you are being yourself you are not comfortable or you have to alter yourself to feel as though you fit then you have not.
Some people are most comfortable being the center of attention, others may be most comfortable at home alone with a good book. In either case that is the social milieu that fits their personality.
Just beware the chameleons who change their personalities from one group to another to fit in. They are lacking something elemental and can rarely be trusted, in my experience.
mud
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I sometimes feel insecure because so many of the women in my church my age do not work and have lots of money. I sometimes feel and do awkward things because it's like talking about your money issues is part of being real...but it's also a taboo.
I feel rejected if I bring it up so I seldom do.
Hops
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OK, Iz and Hops,
Did we get it straightened out?
ok TT and Leah
What are you talking about that was about Christians?
What did I say that led you there?
I feel 'stupid'!
--then I see you post about clever, and analyzing along lines.............
What did I do?
See why I failed life?
Izzy
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Hey Iz,
I got totally lost too.
No worries...
Hops
By way of explanation, mine was anyone who may be superficial or shallow, just a generalism.That's what I thought you meant Leah, but it didn't hurt to ask again, right?
Love to all,
tt
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Well enough...
I don't mind being confused now and then!
:)
Hops
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tt,
I haven't read through the responses yet, so forgive me if I am repeating or missed a lot of discussion. This jumped out at me from your original note:
[And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. /quote]
Yes, TT, you should love your neighbor. But you don't have to necessarily LIKE your neighbor. Would you be there if they needed help? Are you polite and kind? That is being a good neighbor. But liking someone doesn't have to be part of it... They are different from you and you are not in a comfortable relationship with them. They enjoy certain things and you don't or vice versa. Doesn't mean anything bad about you.
I also relate with not being able to enjoy the circus and freak show :) LOL I always feel I have to entertain everyone present and make them feel good in some way or another. Makes for a stressful encounter every time. I think that is something we would need to work on to change.
(((((((((((tt)))))))))))) Hope this helps in some way.
Love, Beth
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I see I did the quote thing wrong again. Was supposed to purpleize only your words. Ooops. Sorry.
Love, Beth
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Seems a pretty simple question to me.
Hey Mud,
It is a simple question. I know how to ask those. Answers I'm not good at! :lol: :P :lol: :P
Kidding aside, this part of what you say is my fit.
others may be most comfortable at home alone with a good book.
But there is a kind of unspoken pressure for loners to be more social. As Annali Rufus says, Nonloners call loners crazy. Cold. Stuck-up. Standoffish. Selfish. Sad. Bad. Secretive. But we know being a loner isn't about hating people. It's about essence, about necessity. We need what others dread. We dread what others need.
Then occasionally, I actually have a desire to be social. But it is bothersome when I go away asking myself, What was that? It is then that I think maybe I'm wierd and get on the board to get feedback.
Mud, you're no simpleton!
tt
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Hi Beth,
Yes, TT, you should love your neighbor. But you don't have to necessarily LIKE your neighbor. Would you be there if they needed help? Yes. Are you polite and kind? Yes. That is being a good neighbor. But liking someone doesn't have to be part of it... They are different from you and you are not in a comfortable relationship with them. They enjoy certain things and you don't or vice versa. Doesn't mean anything bad about you or them, right?
What you say helps, Beth. Thank you.
tt
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I sometimes feel insecure because so many of the women in my church my age do not work and have lots of money. I sometimes feel and do awkward things because it's like talking about your money issues is part of being real...but it's also a taboo.
I feel rejected if I bring it up so I seldom do.
OMG Hops - that's exactly where I am in life. Surrounded by people with money some of whom I grew up with but not a fit there and yet not a fit with those exactly without either.
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Leah,
In spite of being a loner, a retreat sounds good to me too, but I'd find a way to cloister, I'm sure.
tt
Hops,
I sometimes feel insecure because so many of the women in my church my age do not work and have lots of money. I sometimes feel and do awkward things because it's like talking about your money issues is part of being real...but it's also a taboo.
I feel rejected if I bring it up so I seldom do.
You can talk to us about it ((((((((((Hops)))))))))))).
tt
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Just beware the chameleons who change their personalities from one group to another to fit in. They are lacking something elemental and can rarely be trusted, in my experience.
mud
Hi Mud,
You have expressed the meaning of my waffle! :)
Thank you
Honestly, "chameleon" came to mind, in respect of my waffle!
Leah
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One would expect the Oscar party to be blatantly superficial and the Friday evening dinner party to have substance. I think I'm all mixed up! I almost always leave social events with the same feeling I had Friday evening. It simply was a waste of time. Don't know if that is a fault of mine, that I have unreasonable expectations or what.
I would like it if dinner parties had substance. A few people gathered around good food seems to me a likely setting for an interesting exchange. I might attend with that expectation, but be ready for my expectation not to be met.
Perhaps the people at the party you attended weren’t a good mix for a ‘substance’ event. The group wasn’t right, at that moment, for that type of exchange. Maybe another time with different approaches it might have worked? Maybe not.
I wonder what your host thinks of the event? I wonder how she expected it to go?
I don’t think it’s any fault of yours TT. I do think sometimes things don’t work out as expected and we can let them go as, well, it just didn’t happen tonight. But it’s the group that didn’t work. I wonder what expectations the other people took to the party, and if their expectations weren’t met.
How does one find the right social fit? Keep trying I guess. I don’t think there is a ‘right’ social fit as such. Sometimes I can have an interesting time with people, sometimes not. Sometimes I can ask the most oxygen-grabbing people probing questions which makes them interesting to me (and so I have an interesting time, mostly within my head, mostly after the event).
Maybe a question would be: what would be an enjoyable social event for you and how could you try and help that to happen?
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Maybe an event that combined sociableness with meaning?
My church (happens to be Unitarian Universalist, but others do this too) has Covenant Groups. We meet in small groups 2x a month...same group, so you get to know people more deeply. We have wine and a lovely potluck to start, that's sort of the "just social" part, then we move to a circle where we have a small ritual with opening words, and a topic that has depth, and an opportunity for each person to speak from the heart about it (you can pass if you don't want to talk), and then time to dialogue about it with deep listening, then a closing reading, and we go home. It's really a wonderful experience. I've gotten closer to these 8-10 people, ranging from 30s to a man in his 90s.
Wonder how that would be for you, TT?
hugs
Hops
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Hi Iz,
Well TT, I love the fact we are in the same age group,
Huh? I'm thirty nine!
no electricity, no phone, a two-holer outhouse, complete with Sears catalogue, and a battery radio?
Oh yes! Bless TVA's little old dams! :)
Honest expression tempered with understanding and love are good things. I like the way you think. The way you see and express doesn't ruffle my feathers in the least. But then I'm a bit quirky and may not be the best judge, except others are telling you the same thing. So maybe we're operating on all cylinders for the present!
tt
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OMG TT
I'm sorry
I thought you said you were 70--must be someone else, if you're 39.
Hey out there!!! Who is 70?????????
I thought there was someone close to my age. You KNOW anyone 70, tt??
Love
Izzy
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Dearest Izzy,
Sometimes I am one hundred, sometimes 7, sometimes 30. Most important is heart, brain, soul, still breathing. I don't care how old you are and I hope you don't give a fig how old I am. For intstance, Miss Marpole ( one of my heroines) is god knows how old but she is with it, still thinking and solving mysteries of life, refuses to be muzzled. Sister Theresa was a good egg too.
Women over 70 be proud, defiant, and willing to share your wisdom.
Love,
Sea storm
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I find that when I in back to my home town I can get together with old friends and have a good time. But they all want to party so at age 47 I cannot really do that! I was lucky enough to find two other couples that really clicked with my h and I. I am not really comfortable in a group of people I do not know and have to work the crowd. It reminds me of Nick Nolte in the Prince of Tides. Lowensteins Husband was an ass!
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Indeed it is an interesting question, tt. You sound like me in a number of ways. And I don't have the answer. I don't have many friends, tho' I'm an extrovert. I do not say this to brag - really - but my high i.q. makes lots of people shun me. The turmoil and trauma of the past 10 years have dampened my "party" instinct quite a bit - as a result I am more serious than I'd like to be. But when I force it, it's embarrassing. I spend most of my time alone and have decided to let it be what it is - let ME be what I is. The few people who don't care if I'm serious or not will get my attention b/c I know I can trust them with my real self, whatever that is at the moment. In the several cities I have lived in, I always found it hard to find compadres of like mind, etc. I cannot do small talk - the children's goings-on, recipes, balancing my checkbook, etc. I want and need to talk about things that matter, topics that have heart and soul. I tried for years to be light and fluffy and it just exhausted me. I get lonely, sure. But after all this time I've learned to like being with myself, doing what I like to do. When it gets too much, I call one of those friends I trust.
Here's another poem I like very much:
"A shady friend - for Torrid days -
Is easier to find -
Than one of higher temperature
For Frigid hour of mind-
The Vane a little to the East -
Scares Muslin souls - away -
If Broadcloth Hearts are firmer -
Than those of Organdy -
Who is to blame? The Weaver?
Ah, the bewildering thread!
The Tapestries of Paradise
So notelessly - are made!"
E. Dickinson
Please let me know if you find the answer.
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Izzy,
I thought you said you were 70--must be someone else, if you're 39.
I think tt is 39 in the same way that Jack Benny was.
mud
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I think tt is 39 in the same way that Jack Benny was.[/color
:wink:
tt
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mud and tear
Don't think I didn't think of that, then I wondered if y'aLL WERE OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW ABOUT HIM.........
FROM GRANNEEEEEEEEEEEEE
iZZY
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I haven't read but your post here TT but I want to say- go ahead, write it as a play, it'll be brilliant and I am sure cathartic to make something positive out of a potentially wasted evening ( you know I believe nothing is ever wasted...)
I have these social times too sometimes, with high-maintenance people who can't relax enough to have fun, I also can be rather intense myself which I've learned I have to tone down!