Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: DivineSunshine on March 31, 2007, 08:11:56 PM
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I broke my leg a few weeks ago. I had surgery on it one week ago. I cannot walk and have been on crutches for three weeks. I do most everything for myself. Try to. Have to. I have 6 children. Most are pretty self sufficient; ages 8, 10, 11, 14, 15. And they help me mostly. My husband has done minimal stuff. Barely minimal. But I have a two and a half year old. I have needed some help with him. My husband, who is his own boss, claims he cannot help me, and when he tried for two hours one day after the children all went back to school after a two week break (year-round school) he ended up throwing a temper tantrum complete with throwing of dishes and yelling for the two year old drawing on himself after being left unattended by him for 20 minutes.
I am upset, shaking and scared. Because he is raging and scary. And stuck sitting on my couch watching the tantrum. Helpless. He finally comes to his senses and then comes over to "apologize" and make excuses and tell me how hard it has been on HIM! Of course he won't say it but.....it's all my fault. He is just so overwhelmed. Truth is he freaks out like that pretty regularly, is always 'stressed' out and losing control. I get upset (annoyed or teary or scared) and he blames ME for being upset for HIS tantrums. Like crying upset. He doesn't believe me when I tell him I am scared of him and he is always mad or raging when he is home I have a stomach ache. The kids are afraid and upset. He likes to tell me I am overly sensitive. (He only shocks me so bad by his behavior once in a while enough to bring me to tears anymore). Then he tells me I won't talk to him and I have this cold shell of armour that he can't break through. This stuff he tells me in the same conversation. Contradictions---I think. (overly sensitive & armoured and distant) Am I wrong here? He is contstantly acting horridly, then blaming ME for being upset with HIM. As if I was the one being unreasonable. He should just get let off the hook no matter WHAT he does!
So, on this day, he insists he needs his mothers help. His mother is 70, is way TOO involved in our life as it is, (by him), and getting ready for major surgery next week. I have written about their inappropriate relationship before and my opinion is that it is emotionally incestuous. (sp?) It is and I know it. I brought it to both of their attention a few months back during a fight in which he invited her to (under the guise of getting the kids out of the way for a while). I told them I felt they were married and I was the mother. Neither of them took that very well. She and I hadn't spoken since then until my accident, and he admitted that night after she left that he was way too involved with her but wasn't really willing to do anything about it. So.......the main question is what came up today------
He doesn't want to take our kids to get new jeans today (Saturday). Claims he is too busy since he has to get groceries, which he was also trying to squirm out of. I bought a couple of them the wrong size jeans at Christmas, and the boys have worn their knees out. The little ones. The size was too big by one so the way they are growing I just figured we would hang on to them. They could wear them, but they were a bit long. No biggie, it's almost short pant season anyway. And he has kept us broke enough since Christmas with his schemes that I didn't dare spend the extra money. He asks me if I wouldn't mind if he asks his mother and grown sister with two severely handicapped children to take my kids out to try on new jeans today. Something he has been promising them all week to do himself.
I am a bit astonished he is trying to push this onto her and his sister today like this. And force me to agree. He asks me this on the phone while he is out "running errands" (but really just trying to get out of the house so the kids can clean it. I try to say we can handle it as nicely as possible and they don't need to be bothered by that. My feeling is that is my territory (especially in this weird situation where I feel he is trying to replace me by her anyway) and it has gone so long by now what's another few days. He finds someone he can push around and he really crosses the line. Uses them. He uses her. Abuses her too and she abuses him right back. (It's lovely, really)
I know he won't explain WHY they have no jeans now and then I know I will be the one made to look like a neglectful mother. I don't say any of this trying not to tick him off, but he is ticked anyway because I didn't just say yes and he has to be a father and man today if he wants them to get pants so bad. And he started a huge fight with me calling me overly sensitive again. I can't even defend myself because then he would be really mad if I told him be a father and go get his kids pants even if he has to miss sitting on his butt in front of a movie in his home-theater tonight. He thinks he is being deprived because he hasn't been able to watch a movie all week. Like usual. He has been making excuses to stay away until midnight or later almost all week and forced his mother to tend my littlest during the day while he goes out and tries to shake down some income. By conning people into "investments" in his business. He finally has some real business--first thing in 6 months and he is making it sound like the hardest thing he ever had to do. A deal that would usually take 10 hours or so mysteriously has consumed his entire week until late into the evening.
So am I being overly sensitive? I did finally start to cry after he started getting angry at me for saying I preferred his mom didn't take our kids pants shopping. I already feel I am losing touch with them and judged by the mother-in-law. He starts in on me for an hour saying I have all these problems and I won't talk to him----he doesn't listen anyway. Or care. Uses what I say against me. Judges me. Tells me I am wrong. Whatever. I need counseling. He hasn't wanted to be married for over a year now, but he loves me more than anything. I am a mental wreck, but I am too shut down emotionally. BUT, then I am TOO sensitive! He loves me, he hates me. Basically. I can't seems to do anything right. But that is what he tells me. He can't seem to do anything right for me. BUT he doesn't know what he would do without me, I am his best friend. I am so sweet. Blah, blah blah.....He insists I will still be mad at him for freaking out and throwing dishes the other day and yelling at the two year old. Still trying to get out of that one. Trying to make me apologize for something HE did! So he can get excused. And do it again and get off free and clear. No consequences.
Bottom Line: Am I being unreasonable????? With the pants thing? I almost called his mom to fill her in on what a lovely boy her son REALLY is. Cause he has her "snowed". He makes her think I am the screwball. And he is the wonderful doting husband. Has his whole family thinking that.
Wonder how she would like to hear about his nonsense? Maybe I oughtta tell her about his sexual addiction to internet porn. This is why I think he has been staying late at work. This stuff I know he has been doing and we have had discussions about this over the last 4-5 years after I saw how involved he was and got a little creeped out by his bedroom talk. I wonder if she would like to know he has lied to his "investors" and spent all their money on living expenses. All the while sitting on his butt doing nothing to make the money himself. Using our last dimes to pay them their monthly payments and leaving his family without groceery money. Wonder if she'd like to hear how he rages at everyone at home all the time. Makes everything happens his way, and on his schedule. And all the other crap he has done, but this is already too long to go into. And then rakes me over the coals for having any problems with any of it. Blaming me for being unreasonable. Calling me whatever he needs to keep me in an emotional roller coaster and feeling guilty and afraid and obligated and alone -----so I will leave him alone to do as he pleases.
Claims he loves me, I am everything to him. He would be lost without me. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, right. Why don't I feel any of that? What an idiot. Me too, I just realized again. :shock: For putting up with any of this. He really had me believeing today I was being a bit**. And emotionally messed up and unreasonable. And guilty. And willing to give it a shot again. Must be the pain killers I have to take so I am not writhing from pain from the surgery.
But I am stuck here for now. Until my leg heals and I can walk. This has been a devasting blow to me having this happen and I don't know why. But like others have said, I will stay stoic, calm, and plan plan plan! I have to. I even called him up to apologize and offered to call his mom to do this "favor" just to buy more time to heal and keep the peace for now. He even "accidentally" hung up on me while I was telling him something personal about how I feel and then called back to yell at me for not picking the phone back up fast enough and then not really being enthused to open up to him again. Blamed me for his mistake and insensitivity again.
Wow.....Thanks for giving me the space to rant again! Trying to keep a lid on it. Sometimes he really messes with my mind though. I wonder if maybe I am being unreasonable and weird. He wants me to go to counseling. I nicely say---it hasn't been financially feasable honey. I'd LIKE to because heaven knows he doesn't want to hear about anything I have to say. Then he gets mad cause then I have insulted his pride to provide!
So I never nag or ask about money. I just hold my breath hoping he will bring it in as promised. Promises the world and then falls pathetically short. Barely providing necessities of life. He can't pay for our houses, but yet insists on living in the finest neighborhoods he can find. Driving the nicest cars he can get. Paying stupid amounts for stupid things. Paying for his toys before bills. Bringing the stress onto himself. Then complains and excuses his awful behavior saying he is like this and doing all this for me and the kids. But he is sure to tell me how bad he hates his life. And he really would reather die. Almost monthly now. I beg to move into a smaller house, but he won't. The kids tell him how unhappy they are, but he turns around and decides to have a pissing contest (sorry) with the wealthy people next door to try to keep up with the "Jones".
I can't let anyone is my house for fear someone will come looking or calling for money while they are here. Or maybe my power will get shut off. I had to totally cut off contact with my FOO, based somewhat on their involvement in a cult which I no longer can be a part of and a lot because I am embarrassed about my life and he has forced me to borrow from them over the years but won't let me pay them back. And I know if I was speaking to them, he would send me to beg from them again. they don't have much to give and might not do it and that is too hard to bear any longer. He makes fun of them, always has, and then tells me I am wrong for going no contact with them. Somehow he always make it seems like I am the goofball who can't think straight or get along with anyone. I get friends and he tries to get sexual about them. If they are female, and men are out of the question of course. Or he insults them to me so much I just have to let them go cause he is cold to them and my life is too messy for anyone to see anyway. He has made me only depend on him and when I finally have to, he is nowhere to be found and being more emotionally draining than usual. Says I am overly sensitive to his rages! How does that make sense? Now I am back to square one. This is just ridiculous. Now he goes on today about how he wants only me forever. He isn't interested in anybody else. I feel like I am just spinning in circles, but in my case I guess that would be more like spinning on my bum-eh? Since me legs are out of commission! Ha ha, no really, it's my head that is spinning.
Oh my heavens, I just wrote a chapter when I really thought I just wanted to ask a question. Feels so much better to have it out of my head. I got a chance to because he actually went grocery shopping. Wonder! And he didn't make his mom go take my kids clothes shopping. Doesn't like it, but he didn't after all. My little stands are so small and turn into such big issues it makes me want to not ever stand for anything. I didn't even realize this would be such a big deal. Didn't know I was making a stand really, but it was so absurd on so many levels when all is taken into consideration for him to ask her that especially when he CAN do it himself. What a twit.
Whew! Done for now, I think. I don't even know if any of this makes sense any more. Hope so, my brain is a lot more clear. If you made it this far, thanks. :P
Namaste,
Sunny
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This reminds me very much about a very trying time between myself and NH (just before we separated for the 2nd time). We had a very big verbal confrontation and I attempted to get away from him by going downstairs in the basement to our workroom and as I was standing in the room (no back way out) he came storming into the doorway, intimidating as heck, coming at me. It sent me back to childhood when dad did the same thing and I wound up cowering on the floor, in a total regression state.
When I came around, I realized (when he had NO empathy for my state, no apology, no NOTHING except "ridiculous how you could feel that way") and I soon left. When someone can take your sanity away from you, you must do what you can to protect yourself.
Dandylife
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Sunny, honey...
You have spent a long time being married to a VERRRRRRRY manipulative man.
You're not crazy at all.
You're vulnerable right now because of your leg. You're getting a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry thorough last look at who he is and how he operates.
As that leg heals, you gather your inner strength, hear?
You're not in denial one bit. He's manipulative, dishonest, disloyal, addicted, reckless, irresponsible, and you have come awake.
Maybe this enforced recuperation is just the time you had to have to solidify your resolve.
Sending strong thoughts to you and your leg, which will heal stronger than it was in the first place.
As you will.
You're going to make it. You probably don't need one more horrible dialogue for motivation...maybe you need to rest and plan now, and don't exhaust yourself on the small stuff.
Hugs,
Hops
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Sunny,
There is nothing wrong with your thinking. Your H is not much unlike my H was with ALL his tactics. He is trying to keep you confused. I cringed when I was reading what he does. I know it all to well.
Yes you have to plan, plan, plan. If you are in danger at any moment then you must abandoned your plans and leave immediately. If you can pull it off long enough (detach from emotion) become the best actress in the Universe to get you and your children set, then do it. That is only if you feel safe! if not GO!
Sunny, I worry that you feel so much fear with his rage. This is your natural instincts warning you of danger. Do not ignore them. You are not being overly sensitive. You are not crazy! You and your children are being Abused.
Keep yourself safe hon, and keep posting.
Love
Deb
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Wow--thanks again you guys! Sometimes I just need some reenforcement andd encouragement. You are reaaally helping more than you know!
All of you!
........And he is still out running errands. He DID take the kids to get clothes and they had a good moment with their father. Why did I have to go through that to get him to spend a quality hour with his kids! (Rhetorical question) Sheesh!
I swear. Now he thinks he is father-of-the-year. But most importantly, the kids got to see their father and in a surprisingly decent mood for a bit toniight. Even if I did have to force him.
He has to hit one more store to get pet supplies....it's late and he is tired. And maybe for once has some self respect for being a man. Whoppee. Hope he enjoys it. I know it doesn't come around too often.
You guys are all awesommme. Love you! Take care everyone!
Namaste,
Sunny
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Sunny I am sorry for what you are not getting in the relationship, and for what you are getting that is not what you ask ..
My 23 yrs old son was an expert at talking a talk, never walking the walk..... and I kept calling him on it, When he was using crack, I could not believe a word that came from out of his mouth..... he would say he was sorry for this or sorry for that... then turn arround and do it again...
So I just started confronting the "double speak" exposing it to him, he is not using now and has not used crack in a year, but if it happens again, he is out of the house...
I realise this is a dfferent situation , I just wanted to say i identify with you , when the words don't match or reflect the actions
this does make us question our sanity......
I'm glad you posted here and can share you situation with us and gain support
Blessings Poet
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((((( Sunny )))))
Thinking of you
Leah xx
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Divine, your husband sounds like a borderline.
http://www.drirene.com/bpd_abuse.htm
http://www.emofree.com/articles/borderline-personality-disorder.htm
There's a mistaken perception that only women are borderlines, because the tantrums, the cutting, the suicide threats, all of the constant high drama that borderline women often generate, aren't the way men express the illness. Men with BPD have tantrums, but instead of acting in with violence at first, they usually begin by acting out.
Here is a Google search on 'borderline rage'.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=borderline+rage&btnG=Google+Search
here is another search on 'male borderline personality disorder'
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Male+borderline+personality+disorder&btnG=Search
I hope this helps, although it isn't going to be happy news if it turns out to be an accurate description of how your husband thinks and acts...
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Dandylife,
How'd you guess he has absolutely NO empathy for what I have gone through. Keeps saying not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Says the problem lies with me becuase I have issues now with all those close to me. Yes...of course i do because I have been preyed upon by sick, manipulative, mean people who got away with it until now because I was so nice!
He sees me standing up to my FOO for inflicting an emotionally and psychologically abusive "religious" indoctrination at their hands since birth and he knows he is next unless he can break me and force me to back down with them. I don't fight with them, that is not what I do best. I just said enough. But I know part of that is due to "Stockholm syndrome" symptoms as well. He works on me incessantly to pressure me, guilt me, and shame me for going n/c with them. He has used all tactics for almost two years now to no avail. I have had to stay strong and have no one to empathize with or talk to. He says why don't I just "let it go." I hardly bother him with it anyway, never did.
Besides, he doesn't realize if I just "let it go" he gets "let go" too. Because he is a huge part of the problem I am dealing with, by letting it go and healing, which is what I am trying to do, he is the big baby that will be thrown out with the bathwater!!! With or without his feigned empathy! Ya know?
Now I am starting to stand up for myself more with him and he is fighting me in every way he can think. I have recently had a discussion with him asking why he can't just have sympathy and compassion for me. He loves to claim to have it but as
Poetprose
says....he tries to talk the talk, but can't/won't walk the walk. So true. I also ask him recently as he tried to hurry and apologize so he could just be let off the hook for asking like a jerk, that sorry doesn't really mean anything to me anymore coming from him. He just continues to do the same crap over and over anyway. If I bother to call his game he makes me into the mean bit** for making him suffer and answer for being a jerk. And then comes the ever so sincere SOOORRRY! He's like the kid in the trunck of Uncle Buck's car that he forces to apologize for something who yells it sarcastically at the top of his lungs. (If you've ever seen the show Uncle Buck, ya know what I mean)
Oh, and I mention one thing that he has done that is hurtful or insensitive, and he makes it into complaining that I attack him about EVERYTHING and NOTHING he does is right. I know he does this just to play on my pity and guilt and confuse the issue at hand. Does your son do that?
Sorry to hear about your son. Yeah, it's not the same problems or the same relationship as your son, but it's the same behavior it seems. My NH is addicted to something...mostly himself!
The "doublespeak" and contradiction and lies CAN drive one who doesn't operate that way up the wall and hurt so much!
Thanks for the support!
Namaste,
Sunny
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Hopalong and CB,
You have heard me out so many times and you have been so patient with me. I can feel how much you care for me and that is sooo touching. I know I am just a stranger writing words and complaints and feelings out, but you have been like the sisters I never had. Long distance and anonymous of course, but so real to me.
Hops,
I too have mused over the enforced down-time ( I know you worded it better) I have wondered if maybe whoever it is or whatever it is who looks out for us behind the scenes had to slow me down to make me take a good look and think, plan, and regroup for the fight and journey ahead. I know I haven't been listening for a long time, and I know this is probably a blessing in disguise for me if I use it wisely.
I don't see it as punishment (the leg), but as a gentle but inescapable help and reminder for me to get real NOW!
Watching this N idiot is like watching a really bad movie, and I try to very hard to be stoic, and fake. Which is hard for me. I hate to even hold a grudge. He has just spent the last few minutes before leavingto run errands trying to pull my heart strings to remember how it used to be when we first met and how fun that was. But once again, to his utter ignorance, it wasn't fun for me then either and it was only fun for him and nostalgic because that was when I was his total lap dog. Complete with smiles and batting eyelashes. Not really, but that is how he saw me. He has this unreal picture of who he thinks I am and what I think. I feel like his toy. Now he just complains I don't smile enough regardless of assessing how little he has ever given me to smile about. It IS SAD. And he tries to play that card with me constantly about our not making it and how much he cares and I don't. Gag!
But anyway, I do heed your advice woman--- and I appreciate your patience and support!
Be well.
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CB,
As always, we can relate all too well, it seems. Yucky, eh?
You hit that nail totally on the head about his dysfunctional family. His momma IS a piece of work indeed! She is one of those who is ultra phony happy and helpful and most people believe her, but I have seen through her and it's a disgusting view. To say the least. It's all about her. Guesss where my N learned it from??? I want to tell him he shouldn't be taking marriage advise from his 6 times married(twice to the same guy), now unhappily married, destitute and unhappy full of sh** mother.
But I keep my mouth shut. It was interesting entertaining the thought of calling her and exposing him for a minute and would feel so good, but in the end I know enough now to understand that would only come back to bite in the rear. She did help one of her daughters-in-law once hide from one of her sons long ago, but there is always a PRICE TAG! And she is keeping score. But this son was a blatant A** and everyone knew it, she didn't have a choice. Not my NH, he is her little angel or she lives in enough delusion it will always stay that way. Anything I say now will sound like sour grapes, especially since she knows she has no spell on me with her phoniness and lies anymore.
But like you said, I need to let more people see into my life. I have considered printing the stockholm syndrome piece you posted out and secretly sending it to one of my more understanding less offended, but least dense siblings. But I don't know about that. I had to be pretty awful to them to get them to stay away from me in true stockholm form, I don't know if I can ask for their help right now. I will never see eye-to-eye with any of them with the cult issue and so I feel I would be taking a step back. Sometimes I consider it though, just to get away from him in an emergency. Like now, since I have been laid up and left defenseless for the first time and it is surreal in every way, these feelings while I try to plan and build up my inner strength and courage. And weigh out my options. I will be up soon enough and it is scary, but I am so blessed that I WILL be able to get back up onto my own two feet.
Life coulda hit me a lot harder so I will consider this a wake-up call.
Always good advise for me though CB, about my interactions with my NH. Thanks! I need help thinking straight sometimes before I do stupid things!
Take care doll!
Sunny
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debkor,
I will have to go if the voilence sets in. Don't worry. Until then, I am planning and staying calm. Thanks for the voice of support!
Leah,
Done any good reading lately? (((((Leah))))))) Thanks babe!
Stormchild,
Oh YES! I have the SWOES books and he saw me reading them last year and now that is his favorite thing to tell me that is what he has to do around me to get me confused or quiet. Tell ME that he walks around on EGGSHELLS around ME. Whatever.
He's too stubborn and volatile and dense for me to explain the difference between giving someone you care about room and compassion on a few certain hot personal specific and known topics (LOVE)....... and never knowing when they are going to explode and what they are going to explode about. He's too lazy and doesn't care enough to actually read to book, he'd rather project his behavior on to me to keep me in confusion and disbelief and second-guessing myself. Besides, he'll never look within to take his own inventory anyway. HE is never wrong! Ha ha. :?
I have researched BPD very thoroughly and I feel I am dealing with that mainly but throw in all the selfishness and gradiosity and lies and I basically have two-in-one. As near as I can tell! It is a total blast! :?
Thanks for the sites though. I have seen one you linked me to a while back but will be checking out the others very soon. As much as I can read just gives me more solace and understanding and anchor.
Thanks for the links!
Love and peace TO ALL!
Namaste,
Sunny :)-----out for today! Have a beautiful day or evening everyone! XOXOXO
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For what it's worth and what you might glean from this year in the life of me~~~~
You know….my mom was 13 years in a wheelchair when I was injured in the car crash. I have no idea what her thoughts were, except that when my sister went there to tell them, at 7:00 a.m. she said only, “Oh the poor girl!”. She didn’t come to the hospital for 2 weeks even though I could have died in the first 6 days. Odd! (I would say that she could not face a daughter who would have to live this way, since she knew all about the intricacies.)
Now my dad came immediately, but had little, if anything, to say in the way of comfort. Only family was allowed, so the 2 older sisters came.
Immediately my boss came and said I had a job no matter how long it took to return. I would be paid for the Statutory Holidays and that would take care of the monthly payroll deductions—leaving me $.41 per month, which he delivered to my mother, by cheque.
Mom took over keeping track of my finances. She really enjoyed this and it gave her something to do. I had been renting a story and a ½ house for $100.00/mo. New tenants had just moved in downstairs, at $90.00/mo and I threw in $10.00 plus utilities. The family gathered and packed all my daughter’s and my things, furniture and all except my fridge and stove, and stored it at my brother’s. Some clothing went to mom’s.
For one year Mom kept track of paying the $100.00 rent to the owner, but receiving the $90.00 then the $60.00 for the upstairs and banking it, along with the $.41.
I could call her collect and she kept track of those calls so I could pay her back.
My boss had a direct line so I could call him for a dime.
So I had only $2.00 in the bank when I was injured but a collection was taken with Office and Plant people contributing. That was banked. Some people signed up for a certain amount to be taken from their pay cheques and to be given to me. That was a special account and my boss closed it out each month with a cheque that he took to Mom and it was deposited (Dad would have done all this running around) People were great! When I returned to work and wrote the first Plant payroll, I used a red pen in ‘my column” and wrote Thank you. You are done. I am back! (I wrote regular letters to the head of social committee and she posted them on the bulletin board. They were well received. My first I recall best, as I was upside down on the stryker frame, all kinds of abrasions on my hands and arms and a coouple of places stitched. I opened with "Well this was a hell of a way to give up smoking! (7 years later a piece of windshield was removed from my upper arn.)"
That first sister took my daughter for 2 days, but she worked so, daughter went to another sister who didn’t work and I paid her. She brought daughter only once in 2 months to see me. I hated her for that! After that daughter went to sister in Toronto who outfitted her for kindergarten. I wrote the cheques, but sis got some really good deals playing the pity card, poor kid’s mother was in the hospital with a broken back, etc. got some great deals in a leather coat and expensive shoes and dresses. We had a fashion show and sis brought me needle and thread to hem the ones needed, then she took her to daughter’s regular sitter back in my hometown. I paid her, 9 months, and between her and my parents I saw daughter every 2 weeks.
I trusted my mother with every cent.
When I was close to being released I asked them to look for an apt. for us, 2 br., and Mom was the best to check out accessibility. They did and then my brother brought all my furniture etc and set up everything for my return.
Tally:
· Eventually Mom and Dad made the trip with my daughter very regularly.
· First sis and her husband came every week---she is the N who wrote that filthy email to me.—the new Christian.
· Second sis who had daughter for 2 months never came back after that one visit for the whole year I was in hospital.
· Sis who did the shopping never came back after the original “death watch” when she came and read my mail for me.
· Brother came only once.
I had a lawyer on this for a civil suit and owed my mother a little over $700.00 in telephone calls. How do you compare that to a possible $1,000,000.00 coming in?
No! I was back home, and one month later back at work. She wanted her money. To finally shut her up I settled out of Court! No million here!
Then Maw began to instruct me how to live as a disabled person. I resented that. We learn our own ways. That’s it.!!
BTW mom and I were in the very same Rehab hospital 13 years apart and some of the same staff was there at my time. –see 1956 (when I was 17) and me in ’69 at 30 with d’ter at 5.
(http://www.copwt.ca/lyndhurstmom.jpg) (http://www.copwt.ca/LHurst69.jpg)
I think my mother needed to feel needed and went about it the wrong way--
I hit Post instead of Preview Mom is outside in summer '56. I am inside at Xmas. '69
Love Izzy
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(((((((((((((((((((Izzy)))))))))))))))))))))))
I can't imagine what it was like to be paralysed in the hospital and feel abandoned and betrayed by your family. I'm so sorry.
I'm really glad you are talking about it here.
love
Hops
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Thanks Hops,
Yes weird, but a lot of work ( physical therapy) to do, then go into denial that this is happening so you do what you can and never show anyone that you feel sorry for yourself. Don't show it, then you don't feel it!
Then you get stoooopid!--like the gal , Jackie, across the room never received any mail (broken leg in a car crash) and the old lady, Daisy, beside her (broke her hip in the nursing home) so....
I wrote them both a letter and mailed it with the rest of mine. Next day......Jackie received hers and laughed like hell at my telling her to quit bit**ing, then
Daisy says, "Who the hell is M___?"
Jackies says, "The gal across the room".
Daisy says, "That's a hell of a waste of a 5 cent stamp!"
Ah well Ya gotta laff!
x
izzy
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You are so funny Izzy!!! I love the letter story.
I didn't know your mom had also been in a wheelchair. Did you say how your mom came to be in a one?
It must have been awful in the hospital alone and scared.
((((((Iz)))))))))))
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Thanks Beth,
everyone has always liked that story. i was doing nothing but healong, so I did strange things!
My mother?
This is from another post:
Take my mother who was a disabled person from birth, operated on as a baby, didn’t walk until age 2, and with scoliosis and spina bifida, a crooked body, might not have felt worthy of love, and was known to have said she married my dad as he might be her only chance. She became subservient to an N and was the dutiful wife who never talked back.
I have to wonder if she had ever known Love, or felt she was unworthy of it.
Finally hit the wheelchisr at age 47 when I was 17 and on the verge of leaving home for the big city to work and be on my own.
xx
Izzy
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Thanks Iz, I missed that post. It must be hard to know what their relationship was based on. Maybe she really did worry that you would somehow become dependent like her when you had the accident.
Love, Beth
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Poetprose
says....he tries to talk the talk, but can't/won't walk the walk. So true. I also ask him recently as he tried to hurry and apologize so he could just be let off the hook for asking like a jerk, that sorry doesn't really mean anything to me anymore coming from him. He just continues to do the same crap over and over anyway. If I bother to call his game he makes me into the mean bit** for making him suffer and answer for being a jerk. And then comes the ever so sincere SOOORRRY! He's like the kid in the trunck of Uncle Buck's car that he forces to apologize for something who yells it sarcastically at the top of his lungs. (If you've ever seen the show Uncle Buck, ya know what I mean)
Oh, and I mention one thing that he has done that is hurtful or insensitive, and he makes it into complaining that I attack him about EVERYTHING and NOTHING he does is right. I know he does this just to play on my pity and guilt and confuse the issue at hand. Does your son do that?
Sorry to hear about your son. Yeah, it's not the same problems or the same relationship as your son, but it's the same behavior it seems. My NH is addicted to something...mostly himself!
The "doublespeak" and contradiction and lies CAN drive one who doesn't operate that way up the wall and hurt so much!
Thanks for the support!
Namaste,
Sunny
Oh yes my son is an expert at game playing....
With him , however I made it clear to him, that I will not "invest" in any of his politics , He knows exactly what I mean when I use the word "politics" too, - what politics means is , BSing, himself and me, making excuses for behavior., rationalising, woe is me pitty party's,
So I confront the deviant behavior and call it what it is, I wouldn't even address what he called his friends* as friends, I called them his "enablers" right to his face....
self pitty was his main weapon.... and again , I just stood up to it, exposed it , and called it to the table, my 25 yr old daughter was my helper to, as she has taken alot of physcology for her law and corrections courses at the university, so between her and I, we were able to be that "one unified voice" that he kept bouncing off of......
over a course of years I have written poems to him, to try and reach him.... as long as he is livng under this roof, he will not be a passive participant, I told him that he has to pull his weight just like everyone else in this family.....
Just the other day we were sitting outside on the deck, and he said , thanks for being on my ass mom.... I said, your welcome, now go and make some real friends, friends who will call you to the table when need be, friends who will invest in your growth, instead of your weaknesses....
he is in sobriety now, he is off the chemicals, and has been working steady, and has paid his car loans off.... but the truth is,
his personality will never change, all i can do is work with it, as long as he is living under this roof..... I know i sound like a drill sargent
but what else can I do........
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You sound like a drill sargent whose orders are going to save this young man, Poetprose.
Bless you for your courage in setting boundaries for him when he was too weak to set them for himself. You and your daughter too.
He is a lucky young man, to have a chance to start again.
You are a wonderful mother.
Hops
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Hi ladies...
I am new here. Not sure what all your abbreviations are. Hope to get to know you all. I am currently in counseling for "my" problems. Hope I can share my counseling with you all so as to help you(whatever I mean by that). Sunny, I emailed you. I will be hiding this from dh as he gets really jealous when I am on forums..can only do it when he is gone.
MaryKay
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Sunny,
My sense is that things are continuing as they have been for a long time. Being incapicated, watching, seeing makes it all the more real. This is an opportunity for you to SEE what is going on and gather your strength. With your kids you must be so busy, take your time now to see the "love and care" you are getting or should I say not. Maybe there are no accidents.
axa
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You sound like a drill sargent whose orders are going to save this young man, Poetprose.
Bless you for your courage in setting boundaries for him when he was too weak to set them for himself. You and your daughter too.
He is a lucky young man, to have a chance to start again.
You are a wonderful mother.
Hops
Thankyou !!! and it is so nice to have someone understand where I am coming
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Poet,
I too think you are doing a tremendous job. It is far more important to guide and set guidelines than to be a friend. And you have to call kids on their selfish behaviors. You are right, your son will always be who he is. But he has a better chance of being happy this way.
Welcome MaryKay. Please come on when you can. I wish you strength and courage in breaking away.
Love, Beth
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Izzy,
I feel like such a baby for complaining. I hope I didn't offend in any way. I really don't know what to say. Thanks so much for your story. It really puts mine into perspective. You must be so strong. And you must be such a wonderful person for those who worked with you to care soooo much! I am impressed by their kindness. And entertained by your fun stories of the mail drop.
That must have been so hard! I need to figure out how to put photos in so I can brag on my kids!
Speaking of moms......
As far as my mother goes. She lives 15 miles away and I didn't tell her about any of it. We are currently n/c from her abusive Nism I finally had to tell her to get lost last year for good. Wouldn't matter anyway, she wouldn't help or have any empathy....she doesn't know how. It is terribly sad really. She asked once when I went into an emergency C-section "if it was necessary for her to be there" and she was at work only 3 miles away! She had a perfect attendance record at work and didn't want to mess it up! Even my NH was shocked by that. My father has never hardly given me the time of day so he is not really someone to go to either--even for a hug. Neither are. Going n/c hasn't seemed too different,as far as being ignored by them, I just have to listen to my NH tell me how wrong I am for it constantly and hear how upset HE is by it. Whatever.
So basically, I wanted to say thanks for the reality check even though I realize that was not your intent. You are a brave and strong woman and I have thought of you many times since I did this, believe it or not. I was hoping to hear from you!!! I didn't know about your mom though. Wow.
Thanks. Thanks. Thanks!
Bless YOU!
Sunny
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Hi Sunny, (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)
It was not meant to be a reality check.......just an outline of how thing s can happen and who responds with help and who is just too afraid to get close in case , if they are friendly enough, might have to take me in, in my old age.
There are all kinds of people.
I am still on my own looking after myself, driving a car. Will be 38 years in June.
Can you hire a helper to come in? Can you rent a wheelchair to get around? From my experience ya can't do a damn*d thing on crutches, like carry a cuppa coffe, or a laundry basket. I went back to work and hired a cleaning lady for about 3 years.
Can you bear weight on your leg? Walking cast? Straight leg cast?
Many people tell me how strong I am. That comes, I think, from feeling so much on my own from the time I was very little, so I tried to be as independant as possible in many respects. It was scary, but I faked it til I 'maked' it! I also worked on my sense of humour as it has carried me through many times when I thought people were pitying me, and I couldn't stand that.
Know my grandson's favourite vegetable?
"ME!"
Only I can tell that one! This would set people at ease--self-depracating humour, I think it is called.
Yesterday I was a the Library, approaching it, and saw a young woman leaning against the building in tears. I hesitated , then asked if she were okay, could I do anything, talk? She said no and thanked me, but later I was looking for my books and she was searching the Library for me, came up introducced herself and we had a longish chat. She thanked me for stopping----it happens too seldom these days.
So my story has a weird FOO, an alcoholic relationship which I left, with my daughter, then he killed himself 7 years later, then in 1998 a relationship wiith an N, whereby I moved 2000 miles away from 'everyone' and then that I got out almost 5 years ago, June 2002.
In everything, although I never heard it said to me, the phrase, "You made your bed, lie in it!" came to mind, so I bumbled forward by the seat of my pants and here I am @ 68. By striking out on my own and doing for myself, I might just have sent out the vibes that I wanted to be left alone, i could do it myself.
I still have people ask if I need any help (and sometimes I do) but mainly I hear, "I see you've done that before!"---like putting the chair in the car (one lady tried to help once, dropped the chair on my foot and broke 3 toes) and packing up my groceries (I know better how to do it so I can get them from the store to the car and the from the car up to the apartment and my secret is brown bags, no plastic----it flops and slides all over.
Everybody at work loved me, as I was the Payroll Clerk. I wrote their pay cheques!!!!!!!
I have Photosuite in which I resize pictures, then they have to be on the Internet to be linked to here.
I build websites, so I can slip files into their server and link. After a while I remove them.
I also do bookkeeping at home, so I didn't have to re-train after the accident, being I always did office work.
I feel for you and the Ns in your life. Detaching is difficult, in my opinion, when you are still sharing a home. It is far easier when you are not. but You just remember to think of yourself first, and get into a good place or you will not be able to deal with the children. If you put them first and self last, you won't be in the right frame of mind.
It sounds selfish but it is the order I heard and understood.
Take good care now
love Izzy
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Sunny and Izzy ,
Your words of courage and strength are awe inspiring .
Thank you and Blessings
moonlight
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Sunny, my guess is your children love you dearly! Get them to help with things...make it a game. Let your NH see them helping you. Hey, it would teach them to care for others...something your NH can't do.
I was thinking here :shock: and my NH is always overly concerned about me. But that is because when he isn't OK, he gets really upset if I don't come running and attend to him. I will tell you this funny story...He got stung by a bunch of bees once. He is allergic. I was with my grandson (2-3 at the time) and I couldn't leave him. His SIL was there and she is a nurse so she went with him. Now I could not help him so I thought he was better with her administering his epi-pen. Boy did I catch heck from him for not attending to his needs. Of course, it didn't help explaining why I didn't. I should have been there for him! He laid it on thick and at the time I felt really guilty. Sure glad I have open eyes!!!!
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Welcome MaryKay. Please come on when you can. I wish you strength and courage in breaking away.
Love, Beth
I'm new so excuse me for being so ignorant...what do you mean "in breaking away"? I really can't. I don't want to. I probably don't need to. Are the people on this board all broken away:?: Please help me! :oops:
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(((((Moonlight)))))
Thanks!
CB,
I know you are out there and somehow that makes me feel better! I know you care! Hope all is going good for you and your are finding the gifts of life on your horizon!
Much Love........
Izzy,
I have wondered about a wheelchair, luckily my kitchen and laundry and bedroom are all on my main floor. I did just move from a house full of stairs not too long ago so I am glad that isn't still the case. I have an ottoman that rolls around on my wood floors that I can use to get from room to room and make my way around the kitchen but that was before surgery when I was a bit more mobile and less in pain.
No, I can't put ANY weight on the leg. It did tend to have a nasty habit of bending to the outside when I did since technically what I did was not only fracture the larger of the two lower bones (tibia?), but I crushed it as well. At the same time I tore all but one ligament around my knee and the ACL had to be completely replaced. They had to use some of my own hamstring muscle to replace that in surgery so I am re-growing that as well as healing the repaired 3 or more knee ligaments and they fixed my knee-cap from earlier sports related injuries. Lots of teenage kamakazee volleyball with and without knee pads and a fearless go-for-it attitude. Wonder where that went?
Casts are out too, but I have hoped for a wheelchair at times. Rots to not be able to carry anything when going from place to place. So my hands are useless too most of the time when moving around. Luckily I got my hands and other leg and armpits from being sore before the surgery or I woulda had to deal with all that at the same time as the pain of the surgery. It has only been 11 days since surgery, but each day the pain is better. 3-4 weeks till I walk, I think. though. No weight until then.
I see about the being strong comments, and the help-but-no-help attempts. Because, believe it or not, I don't complain anywhere but here, so people don't realize how much pain I am in. I didn't even wince when I didn it and didn't ask for help until the next morning when I thought I might pass out due to pain in the night. I still laid there and waited until my NH got enough sleep so he wouldn't be ornry and tired to next day so he sould go to his meetings. He didn't realize how bad it was either since I didn't show it. I just didn't want to be a pain and make him mad and rage all the way to the ER. Which he has done before with child injuries. He had till morning to cool off and deal with it. I let him know very gently I was in bad shape or he woulda freaked about the inconvience and cost and whatnot. I do stuff myself a lot becaue I am used to it and I don't know how to respond to someone giving a sh** about me. It actually makes me uncomfortable to accept help for that reason. Don't know why anyone should care. That's from mom and dad/ Thanks so very much!
As far as helpers, I had his sister forced (by her mother) to bring dinner to us the other night, and she brought her whole extended family, made it there and stayed until midnight to "chat". I had to entertain and deal with a houseful of 12 people all evening. 4 days out of surgery. Some people are so dense and selfish, but more of what I expect from his dysfunctional siblings and mom. They pretend to help, but really it is all about them. Sad, but true. And on top of that my Nh decided he would schedule some work that night knowing she was coming and leave me home alone to deal with his sister who hates me now thanks to him telling her lies about me. All SO MUCH FUN! And sooo--NOT helpful! Rather be on my own thanks! Then I wasn't even allowed to complain to him in the middle of the night when she left because then I was the rotten one who wouldn't let anyone help me and then judge them for it! He gets me coming and going. I swear!
Wanna know what he did the very night of my surgery? Since I am thinking about it? They sent me home with a cooling system to keep wrapped up inside my bandages to keep the swelling and pain down. It was a cooler that pumped ice cold water into the bandage that we needed to keep filled with ice and then plug into the wall to operate. He put me to bed alone that very night and then came in and turned OFF the cooler pump so HE could get some sleep. I suggested earlier he might have to sleep somewhere else, but he insisted on sleeping with me cause he wanted to. I never dreamed he would turn off my medical supplies! My relief!! It was too loud for him to sleep! I laid for 8 hours in pain and finally asked him to turn it on when he had had enough sleep and it was morning. Otherwise I risk ticking him off and being helpless and getting a tantrum while I worry about the kids seeing the whole affair and blah, blah, blah.....
This stuff is making me sick to type. Of all the utter crap stuff to do! I never said anything. Just let him know I was in a lot of pain ,but then had to arrange for a different cooling system by nightfall because i knew I couldn't have that any more. The doctor got after me for not using it any more and he just sat there mad at me listening innocently to the doctor tell me I had to use that and extremely bent outta shape for me not being his little kitten since I got injured, resenting having to have to drive me to the doctor and hospital for tests to see if I had blood clots in my leg. I can't even drive! It's my right leg! Yeowww.
Soo...my teen and tween kids help a lot. but he is always mad cause things aren't perfect enough when he comes home, but I told him that was how it was going to have to be. I have kept a few home from school this week while he goes and shops for himself, pretends to go to work until late and washes the car.
debkor,
I think it was YOU who said be the best actress in the UNIVERSE and that goes through my head whenever I have to deal with him and I kicked it in on Sunday. I have become his little kitten again. And he is not mad at me any more and threatening to leave and acting aloof. But he threatened me during sex after finally whining enough about not getting any sex since I got hurt that I didn't see I had a choice, that I had to stop torturing HIM, and stop pushing him away, stop breaking HIS heart! Yadda yadda yadda!
"Best actress in the UNIVERSE, best actress in the universe, best actress in the universe!" I keep telling myself.
I wasn't too bad at putting my feelings aside before, but I have to be pretty proud now, I think. Other than using me to be his little yes-girl wind-up doll, he basically ignores me and lets me do what ever. Still leaves me to fend for myself all day and most of the night under false excuses to work but then again, I would hate it if he were here worse, so whatever. Never seen him so intereseted in working, so maybe he will get something done! What a toad!!!
As far as he is concerned, I am an angel from now until I walk out and leave him alone. With all the right stuff in place. Don't even care any more about having to be two-faced. But I know it is the only way to operate now. Wish me luck ya'll.
Ciao!
Blessings to ALL!
Sunny
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Camper,
I didn't used to want to "break away" either. Time changes and feeling change when things get worse or people refuse to listen, I guess.
Welcome. I used to get scared when people told me to leave because of how bad he was. But that was based on how bad he was. I know yours isn't that bad--- just frustrating, either way it is nice to vent and be heard here. It's all something. What you do about it is up to you, IMO.
Post more here and others will understand and support you in any situation or frustration you have, I am sure of it.
Namaste,
Sunny
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Camper (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)
Am I to read in your posts that you want to stay with your DH (what is that?) and
I am currently in counseling for "my" problems.
Does that mean you think ALL the problems are yours? and that is why you are here?
Just trying to get it straight/
Please tell us more about your problems
Love
Izzy
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Hi Sunny 8) 8) 8)
What a mess! Yes two arms are used for getting around when the legs won’t do it.
So don’t put any weight on it as it will heal crooked. My ankle did, 3 years ago when the Robo-boot swiveled a bit out of place.
What is the ACL?
Yes, well I was a track and field champion, a top bowler and the best dancer on the floor. Now I am oldddddddddddddddddd.
No cast? What on earth is covering this up? Oh just bandages? Eeeeeek! 3-4 weeks is good. From what you described sounded like 3-4 months!!!!!
About not complaining for you: Don’t complain, just ask for……………………???? It is beyond belief what “he” is doing!
I suggest (although it would be difficult for me) that you tell him that this is physical pain (no whining now!) and as your husband he must help you with no complaints. “Through sickness and in health?
If he needs his sleep then insist he go to another room. If doesn’t then you move but then………..(I did that with the N. When he spent too long downstairs viewing porn, I would go to sleep in the other room. He said, “If you’re going to sleep in here, then I will too, and crawled in…… Ya can’t win!)
When he becomes mad and rages, just quietly comment that raising 6 kids is enough, but when he becomes the 7th, the job is impossible!!!!
Did I write this or did you??
I do stuff myself a lot because I am used to it and I don't know how to respond to someone giving a sh** about me. It actually makes me uncomfortable to accept help for that reason. Don't know why anyone should care. That's from mom and dad. Thanks so very much!
That sister bit is detestable! The dinner is great , but then after you tell her sweetly how nice it was, say you and the children have chores to do and you are sorry you have to ask her to leave. Then you don’t complain to him.
I know I am wearing rose-coloured glasses right now but I leave them on until I am finished.
The part about the cooling system is abhorrent. And I can believe it makes you sick to type, but at least you can still feel something. I cannot, I’m sorry to say. I was broken very early in life and then broken more and more and –well see my post about 4th Therapy.
Tell him you cannot be his little kitten right now, but soon it will be over, and then you will be an angry Lioness and “THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE AROUND HERE!”
OMG ! We all have our trials, and every single one must be solved in its own way depending upon the “players on the stage”
Best of Luck and Take Good Care (http://www.copwt.ca/shiningcross.gif)
Love
Izzy
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Hey Iz,
I really do believe that healing and change happen to people throughout their lifespans.
I'd really like to know you, and what you think and feel, in 5 years.
You might try a different message you say to yourself.
Instead of "I was broken, am broken, and will always be broken..."
maybe you could try new thoughts about yourself:
"I was hurt, I went numb to protect myself, and I am very slowly thawing and healing." Eh?
hugs
Hops
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Camper (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)
Am I to read in your posts that you want to stay with your DH (what is that?) and
I am currently in counseling for "my" problems.
Does that mean you think ALL the problems are yours? and that is why you are here?
Just trying to get it straight/
Please tell us more about your problems
Love
Izzy
DH is dear husb. In another forum I am in (a homeschooling forum), all the ladies refer to their husbands as such....I never liked it, because he is not dear IYKWIM.
The part about being in counseling for MY problems.....that was a sarcastic joke...he projects everything on me so that it looks like everything is MY problem. I am actually in counseling to deal with him. This is the 4th counselor in 13 years. My H has had me believing that I am the one with the problem so I was searching for a counselor that would tell me I have problems...I know...sad! This counselor is really good and saw right through him (as did the last one). I have never heard the term N though. I had read the book "Why Does He Do That" and that opened my eyes. It sure helps to understand him. I can deal with it much better. My H doesn't have an anger issue. Quite the opposite, he doesn't allow me to get angry. I am actually having fun pointing out his crap to him. I am playing around with it. If he starts going on about what idiots people are, I just agree. You should see him then...quite comical...he isn't sure how to react.
My H is a typical N and in searching the internet to find out more about it, I came across this board. So glad I did. It helped me to see that he isn't sooo bad. Not nearly like Sunny's H. I have to tell you that we are Christians. Because I have my faith, anything is possible. I have a whole church family behind me if I should need to go to them. My H works really hard at being a follower of Jesus. Because of his N, he just can't grasp it. He twists it all to his advantage. He is humbly self-centered(oxymoron). He has a group of men he meets with (bible study & accountibility) every Friday that I could go to. I am not saying he will ever change as I think all this is way too ingrained. But I do know I won't have to put up with what Sunny does. (sorry Sunny)
That's it (a short version).
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Hey Izzy,
I did read your post before. I feel like such a hypocrite to answer any one, that I don't answer posts too much. But I did read it. I didn't know about your estranged daughter. I was the same way when I told my T about my n/c with my mother and father. Pretty matter-of-fact about it. Sounds like the SIL is a piece of work! Sometimes I think you know what you know and talking doesn't seem like it is gonna help. I know part of my n/c with my mom is to protect her from my NH. I dunno if they means anything to you, but I thought I'd share. didn't even realize it for a while. But it is true. And he keeps me so busy reeling and coping I don't have the appropriate time to devote to our past or our present relationship. It's sad but true.
And what fun to hear about the track and field. I could say the same. Although as i got older I focused on and won the field events so I guess I could still do those if I wanted. Since my arms are not hurt. But, I love the bond and the new insight.
You made me laugh about the sister strategy! I have to tell you---SHE is actually worse than my NH, if you can believe that. Even he is scared of her. She was badly burned in a fire when she was young and has become a mean, ornry, self-centered woman through the years. Everyone is afraid of her bitterness and vile. My H lets her walk all over him. Her husband has actually tried to kill himself and is an alcoholic and I don't blame him a bit. She really is awful. All but ONE of his siblings are. One saint sister and 4 monster brothers who too are worse than him. Crazy, crazy, people. Believe it or not. It is pretty scary and sickening really.
My family (FOO) is harmless but misguided and very emotionally disconnected to the point of coldness. But not physical harm. Luckily. I guess.
And yes, the knee and stitches are hanging out bare. I guess they do things pretty different with this injury. Most people are surprised. And as far as my recovery time. I am being optimistic. The doc says 2 months, but I am determined to beat that. I know I might need the extra time to mentally build strength, but I am hoping for 3-4 weeksto be able to limp or maybe a cane or brace or something. And the ACL is the Anterior Cruciate Ligament which is a ligament which runs inside the bones to connect them underneath the kneecap, I think, and it had to be replaced because inside the bones it won't heal on it's own. The had to drill new holes in my bones to thread it through and hold it in place with screws. Shiver. Bleck, glad I was out for that!
Thanks sooooo much for 'talking' to me about this. It has been therapeutic. I don't tell too many people really any details because I figure....why do THEY give a dang. Don't mean to be that way, it is habit though. And thanks for the kind words and understanding and advice. Especially advice! I do admire your courage since I have had a mere taste of things.
BTW, I have 4 daughters and I hope like crazy they don't turn their backs on me one day, but part of me will understand if they do. They have to make their own pathways in life, just as any of us do.
You have a beautiful soul.
Namaste,
Sunny
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Hi sunny
Thank you for your response. I enjoyed it.
If you have metal things inserted in your knee you can set off airport alarms--have a lot of fun with it--then tell them you forgot and pull out your x-rays
I have stainless steel rods in my back but they don't ring any alarms.
Yes talking helps and on here we have an assortment of problems come to light. Some are difficult to relate to, but if one has been through it, then we know what it's about. but what a place to share our lives!!!!
When adversity strikes, we just have to deal with it because we cannot go back in time to change it. Aren't we lucky that we don't know the future? We might kill ourselves immediately. :D
I did ask my daughter how she would feel if one of her children turned on her and she said it would never happen. It did!! When her N brainwashed the eldest, at 14 to come live with him. After these 6 years, as he is now 20, he has N traits--me, me, me but I don't think he has 'harmed anyone yet' . He might just be annoying and that is the little boy I had to leave when he was 4½.
I would never tell my daughter "I told you so" re marrying the N and re losing one of her children. Her pain is her paiin and we all know how much these thiings hurt.
Take Care
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif)
Love Izzy
Edit in: I forgot to tell you I was pretty good a pool and snooker as well. Dated a guy who was friends with the Ontario pool champion and learned a lot of tricks. So I moved and there was a pool hall in the commissary. I was in there beating the guys and suddenly there was a sign posted "No Woman Allowed". (That was 1961) The end of my career.
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Camper,
I understand where you are coming from. I come from the same kind of background--homeschooler, church, etc. Many counselors that helped me work on me. None could make a dent in him. He went to Promise Keepers, Tres Dias, men's support groups, retreats, accountability groups, etc, etc, etc.
I do hope things work out for you. And I'm glad you have church support. Sounds like your NH is mostly into control and, hopefully, you can work around that with minimal pain.
Keep posting, Camper. We are good listeners!
CB
So, did you ever go to anyone in his "circle"? I would think my H's accountability group would help me out! Unless they are N's themselves :? I know our pastor isn't an N. Are you no longer with your N? Did he throw scripture at you to shut you up and put you in your place?
Big ?: HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR CHILDREN FROM TURNING OUT WITH HUGE ISSUES?????
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Hilarious Izzy! The NO WOMAN ALLOWED! Good for you! And brave for that time. I think.
I will have to re-invent myself for hobbies like that maybe, doc says I won't ever have the same knee again. Just trying to keep calories down while sitting so much so I don't gain weight. I am getting lots less exercise. Any good ideas for that stuff?
Getting sick o me yet? heheee!
Sunny
Have a lovely day/evening!
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Hi sunny
No I am not sick of you
I have been sitting for almost 38 years. I am 5'10", even when I am sitting I still think of it that way, but if I get into a department store amongst the clothing racks and can't find a way out, I know what a little kid feels like, who has lost sight of his mother. I can take , healthwise, 150#. I was 130# at the time of the accident, dropped to 127# in that years.(most people dropped about 50#) The lightest I have been was 118# when I had a thyroid problem. What a bone rack!
At 130# the maintenance man at work said I looked like an ironing board with 2 peas glued on it. so I said when he turned sideways and stuck out his tongue he looked like a zipper!
That was off topic. i am a little heavier now but have no way to know what I weigh. I cannot stand on scales. When in hospital we had a large scale, and were put in in our chairs. Whatever, minus 30#----40#----50# for the chair was deducted and that was our weight.
I am still wearing clothes I wore 20 years ago-----------------what????????? I better go shopping,---------------------- so I must be in my
proper range!
Hey camper
HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR CHILDREN FROM TURNING OUT WITH HUGE ISSUES?????
What ages are your children? As one must begin at the beginning, so I have discovered----too late! Love, touching, boundaries, insight, trust, comfort, feeling safe, admiration (but not too much to make them egotistical) anything to make them love themselves and feel they are a worthwhile individual!!
Make sense?
Good
and I failed!
love
Izzy
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CB and Camper.
Your right you don't know about the issues your children will have. I can tell you something though. My son who is 20 now has the same friends he has had since he was little. Maybe 7th grade.
There is issues in all their families. From divorce, to death of parents. There is also another friend of his who I suspect that his dad was a Giant N. These kids are working out their issues with each other. There are no more secrets amongst them.
They all share with each other and don't feel so Odd ball out. When one is feeling down their is another holding them up. They formed a brotherhood. They don't judge. They listen and what amazes me is they validate. They give the others voice's. They have no clue what they are doing! This is all coming natural to them. They love each other as family.
They have no guilt. They have no fault. They know they could not change things. They are healing through each other. They know they are not different then anyone else. They know some of the other friends families are still in denial and the friends are out of control (due to the denial). I see boys growing into men. I see them taking responsibility.
CB you have given your children this gift. You have freed them to have a life. They will find their own way of healing just like the kids I speak of above.
It takes a little time till they find their comfort spot. It will come.
Try not to worry.
Love
Deb
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Thanks to Sunny, I am reading "Controlling People". Sunny, I drove 40 miles north and picked it up at Barnes & Noble, used my debit card and put a book cover one it, "Believing God" by Beth Moore.
anyway, I read some profound stuff this morning, so profound I had to write it down. Here it is:
We can best see our inner reality when it is reflected back to us without distortion.
children who are nurtured, supoprted, and clearly mirrored by their caretakers can see themselves clearly. If not, they let others define who they are.
It is senseless to tell someone that what they are experiencing isn't what they are experiencing.
We learn to describe and accept our personal experiences when it is accurately named my another (with empathy). We give it a conscious thought. If not, we may experience mistreatment as normal.
How's that for answering my own question. I know if I point this out to my H he will listen because he loves his boys and doesn't want them to grow up with issues like he has. I will tell him I got it out of Christianity Today magazine. Excerpts from a book "I forgot to write down" :). All these things will help my boys,12 & 9, grow up with a healthy self image. When kids aren't validated, they get disconnected from who they are and in turn, let others define them. I can see this is why my H is sucking the life out of me. He is using me to define him and needs my validation. He demands my positive validation. He has used manipulation and control to get it.
CB: I wish you wouldn't have edited. I really want to know those thoughts. I don't like pretty pictures painted, leaving out what I think could be important. It is ok with me to hear your experiences. It's ok to disagree. My boys were at a Christian school and it closed. I had pulled my 9yo out of school mid-year, 1st grade, because he wasn't reading. We started 1st gr. over with A Beka. It left a bad taste in his mouth for school and he just doesn't want to go back to a school. He is only in 3rd grade now, so I am not too concerned. My 12 yo begged me to homeschool when the school closed. This is my second year with him. He is going to a school next year. At the age of 12, I understand that he needs to get away from under mom, and find who he is as he grows into a man. We have a huge circle of homeschool friends...mostly boys, as in, everything the homeschoolers do, it is always a huge group of boys. We all camp together too. I don't think I am hurting him by not exposing him to more friends. He is also involved in sports where he has lots of friends.
What did you edit??? I want to know the bad thoughts. I want to know if my pie-in-the-sky ideals are just that. You have walked the same path....help me see clearly! I won't be offended and hate you!
I thought you had good advice and I didn't detect anything nasty. I know we are all in this together, a bond, and we don't wish to hurt one another, heck, haven't we already been hurt enough? I know you mean well or are "good-willed". The super-mom thing...I realize I can't do it all. Only one big problem her, my H expects it all. I feel like I have to send my boys to school so I can: keep the house clean enough for him; be welcoming when he gets home from work rather than stressed trying to get dinner ready; not be tired at night so I have energy for him; have time to sit with him and adore him; and it goes on and on, all for HIM. Homeschooling is taking important time and energy away from him...it is all about him. Even Iif I tried, I could never give him all the attention he needs and I have told him so. He looks to me for his happiness, as I've told him, and he did discover that I alone can't make him happy, only Jesus can do that.
Last night we had this conversation about public speaking. A girl in my youth group is validictorian of her class and has to make a speech at graduation. she is very nervous about it and wants to bring her faith into it. I was telling my H about this and he went on and on about exactly what she should do and how she should do it. I said, "wow, sounds like you would be a great public speaker(he's not). When ever you get up to speak your voice gets all shakey." First he got defensive and said, " that's just my thoughts". He agreed and said he gets physically sick to his stomach when he has to make a speech. then he told me about in high school he had to give a speech at the annual sports banquet and how hard it was. I asked what his dad said...he couldn't remember him being there. (his dad is the source of his issues so I wanted to probe). Where am I going with this!!! :? Maybe I will remember and continue later...
My H always talks as if he knows evrything. Lays it all out for me what I should say, word for word. And however I respond (something as to, boy you know, or how do you know) he always comes back with, "that's just my opinion". He did this with my youth group girl. He conjured up a plan for her. Imparted his wisdom.
I need to get going here....CB tell me, talk to me, lay it on thick...if I am naive here...tell me! anyone else??? You have all been in my shoes. Help me out here. Get me thinking about things.
MaryKay with big shoulders and an open mind
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Hey Camper!
Good for you! Glad you picked up that book. I just started reading it again and forgot just how good it WAS! I knew I liked it, but yes. I find myself hi-lighting EVERYTHING! Practically.
Read on...you'll probably love the "Teddy" scenario! Let me know.
Izzy,
What's happenin' hot stuff! Geez, I am 5' 11" and haven't seen below 150# since 9th grade! Big bones er somethin. Still size 12/14 though and i'd like to keep it around there although 10 is nice for me. I know, I know---all useless info.
And as far as kids go......hell, no one gets it right! There is no pass or fail. Chin up sweetie! :)
Hope everyone has a great weekend! Love reading this thread! You guys are always so much fun sharing with! And listening to as things develop.
Namaste,
Sunny
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::gulp:: You must be a tower of strength to make it through all you live with.
I was going to impart a couple suggestions but.... I'm not in a very good position to do so just now. Just know that you aren't insane..... you're confused. When we're confused..... we don't want to know what's going on around us. Get de-mystified and begin documenting documenting documenting. If for no other reason than to help you feel better and more in control. I'm talking about financial papers all the way to how he speaks to you and rages at the family. You'll have more power if you have knowledge and can produce examples of his abusive behavior.
Good luck and please.... quit doubting your sanity. Get your friends involved in your life and share your situation with them. It's hard..... I know... but, secrecy is your husbands best friend: / Margo
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MaryKay,
I want to write a good answer to your questions and I have no brain today! You know how when you are in high gear for a long time and then the pressure lets up and there's nothing left? That's me today!
I am just trying to keep enough brain cells to get my house cleaned up for company. But I havent forgotten your last post and I'll be back.
Many blessings, to you, MK,
CB
I am waiting...you are keeping me in suspense. I had an appointment with my therapist yesterday and I felt it was useless. Talked about things I already knew. Therapists is still trying to get to know me. He suggested i read the Peter Pan Syndrom. Have another appointment in two weeks. In reading the controlling book, I feel I can wait.
I feel so much better because I am understanding how my H operates, and why he does. I actually do a really great job handling him. I really feel good.
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He was a seminary graduate that spent hours every day poring over the Scriptures. We shared the same interests and faith. It never crossed my mind that I would be where I am now. That I would ever see what I have seen.
This just boggles my mind! How can this be??? Our church has a children's pastor(who was the youth pastor) who has a counselor's (masters)degree from seminary. I had worked with him in youth ministries for 5 years so I know him very well. I am debating going to him to pick his brain. You know the whole "submissive" "respecting" wife thing, turning it all over to the Lord? I can't figure out how that works in this situation. Is this a sin issue that others need to come to him? My H never got affirmation from his dad and that is the big issue. My H is so caught up in doing what's right. I think that that is what is going to save us. I am not sure I can keep this NPR a secret from our church. I think it may help to start with our pastor. There is another couple at our church who is in counseling with him and this H is a N. (we are in the Wives parent's small group). The strange thing is, this pastor recently asked my H how he could pray for us as the Lord was nudging him over us. He asked my H if there was something going on. My H said he didn't think so but he would ask me. I came really close to talking to him at that time but just couldn't. I had to say that everything was fine. Why is it that I want to protect my H from all the church people that look up to him and think so highly of him? Our small group host gets so excited when my H is coming for bible study. I cringe! My H comes across as being so intelligent and biblically knowledgeagble. The bible knowledge is all in his head and the intellegence is a cover-up. He talks about himself all the time. I have pointed out to him that whenever we go anywhere together, I disappear next to him because the conversations are always about him. I have started to not stand next to him anymore because I can't stand listening to his stuff and all the sympathy they pour on him. I can't talk to others in his presence and seem too interested because my H gets jealous....why aren't I that interested in him. I have to be careful. When he is not around, I love to socialize.
It triggers powerful grief in me to see it--but the reason I deleted my post is because you are on your own journey and you deserve your own timetable and your own story. Not mine. I'm not pulling my punch because I don't think you can "take" my answer, but because I don't know that I have the answer. You still believe everything that I once believed, and the grief over losing it is too great to say anything to discourage you. It's about me, not you.
I am so sorry for your grief here! I am so sorry you ended up where you are. We all have our own journey and it really does help to hear how others handled it. sometimes the Lord puts people in our lives for a reason. Like I said, my H is so caught up in doing the right thing that I honestly think he would do whatever necessary to save his marriage. My H can't be alone...whenever I and the boys go somewhere(camping without him) he goes crazy. He will drive for 2 hrs one way just to spend the night. He would die if he were to be left alone without his boys. It would totally crush him. I can hold that over him. If things did get bad and I walked out...he would change fast.
Are you still in a church? Where did your H go? How did the church handle that? How old are your kiddos? How are you handling the processing? About homeschooling...Your children are better for it. You did a good thing for them. Kids adapt pretty well. I love my boys being home. It is time though to ship one off to school. I recognize I can't smother him and make him give up basketball just to keep him here. I have a friend who is like that(although her H is demanding their boys go to school next year and she is sick about it). Boys, especially, at age 12, need to get out from under their mother. They are at a critical stage in their development. Other mothers are kind enough to explain that to me.
I am starting to escape to my bedroom to write things down that I see are dysfunctional, specific things. I am going to hang on to hope. For my boys sake, I have to do that. I appreciate all your input, even the cynical pessimistic input. If I can help you in your journey, I want to. Sounds like you could use some encouragement. Also sounds like you are well on your way! You sound like you have things under control and are very wise. Try not to beat yourself up for how things turned out! You did your best and you have no control over what your H did! You can only make the best out of your life now. Don't let him have that hold over you anymore. When it comes to a N....life deals you chaos and there is no making sense of it so don't try to! You are wiser than that!!!
I look forward to running things by you in the future. Bless your heart for opening up. I can see how painful it is!!
MaryKay