Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: teartracks on April 11, 2007, 11:28:53 PM
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Hello,
You will be angry to the same degree you are voiceless...Is that right? And is the opposite true, that to the degree you gain voice, anger will be dispelled?
teartracks
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CB,
Interesting implications, huh?
For sure and complex.
You will be angry to the same degree you ____________________________________(fill in the blank).
Now I'm wondering how many issues could be inserted instead of voiceless.
tt
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Dr. Grossman defined Voice as a sense of agency, mattering, making a difference. I think literal voicelessness can be a symptom of this lack of agency, lack of mattering. In my women's studies classes we learned about the difference between power over and power from within. I think it's all related.
Pennyplant
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Hey All,
I just recently got to wondering if lack of voice was at the root of most or maybe all anger. It doesn't seem it could be that way, but in my world it sure is/was. That's why I posed filling in the blank, to see if others here had a different name or source for their anger than voicelessness or it's sister powerlessness. Dr. G's interpretation exploded in my head when I read it because it so clearly named how and where I was emotionally at the time. Thanks PP.
tt
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TT,
What an interesting thought. This has really got me thinking. I spoke to a friend tonight about my passisivity and inability to speak up for myself. She said that she felt my pattern was to withdraw and keep the hurt within myself and eventually get angry when I am telling her what is bothering me and not address the issue with the appropriate person. I found this feedback very interesting and true in many ways.
I have two situations with people which have behaved badly to me in the past months. I was discussing these with her. I feel unable to tell these individuals how hurt I was by their behaviour and I feel angry with them. When we explored why I did not confront these people what emerged is that I am not afraid of loosing their friendship but that if I allow myself to show my vulnerability and say how hurt I am they may discount it and not HEAR me. Its the same old stuff. I know if I can find my voice in an assertive and true way it will be my path to freedom. But I am lurking in the shadows, feeling angry and doing nothing other than complaining about it.
I do think my anger is an expression of my voicelessness. I am searching for the courage to honour myself and name my hurt to the people who have hurt me. It is such a struggle. Thank you for pointing out this..... a huge light bulb moment for me.
Axa
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Hey Teartracks
You will be angry to the same degree you are voiceless...Is that right? And is the opposite true, that to the degree you gain voice, anger will be dispelled?
That is a blooming amazing sumation of not speaking up for yourself!! I definately used to feel very angry with everyone and everything when I never spoke up for myself and let people walk over me like the fool I was, this made me bitter about the people I let walk over me and I used to be a complainer/whiner/moaner/muppet mainly because I wasnt in control of my life rather the people who walked over me were. I was like a leaf in the wind being blown about but now I speak up for myself and kick a small amount of booty I am now a tree rather than a leaf and I take my pwn path rather than be maneuvered around by others - perhaps a sapling at present but eventually a tree! :)
Also I believe when we become more relaxed and assured of our own boundaries the less angry we will become when standing up for ouselves as I am finding, initially I blew my top when standing up for myself now I find I am calmer than people I believed were super calm and instead they blow up before I do, granted that maybe becuase im defending by boundaries too far and stray into the land of the wrong but sometimes im right too, yey! :P
Power to the people!!
James
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Lots of superb pointers here on this thread, thanks Teartracks for starting this. Lightbulbs flashing and bells ringing here.
With reagrd to experiences during the last week, I was not angry inside, more frustration, angst and despair.
Because I felt powerless, so powerless, with no voice.
That has to be the most soul flattening feeling surely - well for me it was and is. It's all due to never having been heard, never been listened to - what I am ACTUALLY saying, throughout my entire life.
Frustration and despair, at the powerlessness of not being heard. That's it.
Leah xx
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True, true...but I get angry when I find my voice, decide to use it, and then get beat down emotionally! Told to shut back up. That is when I got really angry and decided to let it show!
THAT is infuriating!
Sunny
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Hi tt,
A few endings to your idea (a great one by the way)
You will be angry to the same degree you ____________________________________(fill in the blank).
1. are not honest with yourself.
2. forget to inventory your behavior and ensure you are living in a healthful and helpful manner.
3. allow other's behavior to influence your feelings.
4. try to influence the way others live.
5. do not stop to count the ways in which you are grateful for what you have.
6. do not take steps to change what is unproductive and cumbersome in your life.
7. allow fears to remain unexamined.
These are a few I can think of. Very very good topic.
Love, Beth
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Hello all,
axa,
But I am lurking in the shadows, feeling angry and doing nothing other than complaining about it.
I've more skill at maintaining my boundaries than a few years ago. Still, sometimes, I allow things to slide for much longer than I should, waiting for what 'feels' like the right moment to bring it up. I think there are several reasons I do that. I just don't want to face off at the time it happens (lack of backbone). I want to think about it and not take a chance of being wrong (probably veiled perfectionism). I'm your fellow lurker, at least part of the time. :oops: :roll:
james I speak up for myself and kick a small amount of booty I am now a tree rather than a leaf and I take my pwn path rather than be maneuvered around by others - perhaps a sapling at present but eventually a tree! .
I think I want to be Sequoia instead of a pumpkin. :!:
stray into the land of the wrong
It's tough having to maintain boundaries and keep a check on our Wrong-ality facter too! I can handle it, can you! (Isn't there a commercial on TV that says that now?) :D
Leah .
Lightbulbs flashing and bells ringing here
Happy for the lightbulbs :idea: and bell ringing!
Glad your BP is OK. I'm all for lowering the stress. Love your gentle spirit, Leah.
DivineSunshine True, true...but I get angry when I find my voice, decide to use it, and then get beat down emotionally! Told to shut back up. That is when I got really angry and decided to let it show!
Sounds like someone was trying to stomp on your good nature and you let them have it! Felt good, eh?
Beth,
1. are not honest with yourself.
2. forget to inventory your behavior and ensure you are living in a healthful and helpful manner.
3. allow other's behavior to influence your feelings.
4. try to influence the way others live.
5. do not stop to count the ways in which you are grateful for what you have.
6. do not take steps to change what is unproductive and cumbersome in your life.
7. allow fears to remain unexamined.
All good. I've rubbed shoulders with every one of them. I can tell by the content that you have too. Wow, all of us here have made good progress. It feels soooooo goooooood!
tt
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Hey TT, yes a Sequoia would do the job - a worthy goal indeed and one to strive for me thinks! :P and yes I can handle that wrong factor now so im right there with you TT shoulder to shoulder we'll mow the path! :D
Love ya
James
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Hi James,
Sequoia it will be! Sequoia to Sequoia/shoulder to shoulder!
Thanks,
tt
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Hi all,
I have experienced a lot of fear but I believe fear and anger are close emotions .
My fear-anger was turned inward.
moon
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Hi bean,
Here's a hug for you!
Because she could not face a day being pleasant, and life was living hell with her and my father.
I had every right to be angry, to feel angry and to express it. She tried to take my soul.
Here is a post that summarizes the NUniverse me and my siblings were born into. # 25 http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=4368.msg67522#msg67522
It was a very dull, expressionless, emotionally flatlined existence. My soul was confiscated so early that I never had a chance to develop a sense of anger or knowing me or self, not the way you express.
When I dropped out of denial, I was very angry at N. That anger morphed into rage that lasted a few weeks. The rage abated, but the anger lingered for almost seven years. The thing that seems irregular about me and anger is that aside from the anger toward N, I can count on one hand the times I've felt real anger toward others. I attend a twelve step program. I hear others talk about how angry they are. I can't relate to that kind of anger. After examining that feature of my personality, I've decided that I am not an angry person by nature. I dealt with the anger toward N and now with that neutralized, I figure that where anger is concerned, God gave me a little extra grace. For that I am grateful. However, I am very familiar with several of the many sisters of anger to a greater degree.
Also, I was fearful all of my early life. Moon makes a good point on that one.
bean, take care. Stay in touch.
tt
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Hi Moon,
You sound so on top of everything. We've come a long way, baby! :lol:
I have experienced a lot of fear but I believe fear and anger are close emotions .
My fear-anger was turned inward.
Anyway, I agree with you on this, at lease it has been my experience. I was so fearful for the first thirty three years of my life. I feared everyone then. Fear with N was justified. With most others, it wasn't, but I didn't know the difference. I didn't know how to identify safe people.
Hugs,
tt
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TT,
Not sure if I still know how to identify safe people but what I have learned is that my safety is my responsibility. I think I have given up the hope of only finding nice people out there which seems like progress to me. I think I have become more realistic and stopped projecting my desire for everyone to be "nice". The clearer my boundaries are the less likely I am going to end up as N bait again. Its hard work but I think I am getting it AT LAST>
axa
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Hi axa,
Not sure if I still know how to identify safe people but what I have learned is that my safety is my responsibility. I think I have given up the hope of only finding nice people out there which seems like progress to me. I think I have become more realistic and stopped projecting my desire for everyone to be "nice". The clearer my boundaries are the less likely I am going to end up as N bait again. Its hard work but I think I am getting it AT LAST>
It amazes me how little instinct I used to have for making those, Oh so necessary boundaries. Things are much better now. A voiceless one will most likely be a boundaryless one. That was me for sure. I read a book titled, Safe People a few years ago. It helped a lot. Written by two of my faves. Cloud and Townsend. It talks you through the process of understanding who is safe vs. who is toxic, the hows and whys of making sure the core people in your life are safe. I agree, nice doesn't necessarily mean they are core quality people. :(
tt
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You will be angry to the same degree you are voiceless...Is that right? And is the opposite true, that to the degree you gain voice, anger will be dispelled?
You will be angry to the same degree you are living in denial, not being real with yourself or others, accepting abuse, you feel frozen, you feel weak, you feel powerless, you feel fear, you lose control over your own life, you lose yourself, you are unhappy, you feel trapped, you don't feel important enough to yourself, you refuse to take care of your needs, your emotions, you look for others to make you feel safe and secure, you look for others to make you feel whole.
The opposite true, that to the degree you gain coming out of denial, being real with yourself and others, not accepting abuse, you become unfrozen, you feel strong, you feel powerful, you face fears, you gain control over your life, you find yourself, you are happy, you are free, you are important, you take care of your needs, your emotions, you feel safe and secure within yourself, you are whole, anger will be dispelled. .
Love
Deb
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debkor,
You will be angry to the same degree you are living in denial, not being real with yourself or others, accepting abuse, you feel frozen, you feel weak, you feel powerless, you feel fear, you lose control over your own life, you lose yourself, you are unhappy, you feel trapped, you don't feel important enough to yourself, you refuse to take care of your needs, your emotions, you look for others to make you feel safe and secure, you look for others to make you feel whole.
The scales don't fall from everyone's eyes the same. But you know, I'm so grateful that they fell off mine. Each of the things you mention blinded me most of my life. Ahhhh blessed relief!
Thanks,
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I truly have been trying to pray for my mom and to give up the anger. Today on Joyce Meyer she talked about forgiveness and how important it is to you. I truly feel like I have been trying VERY hard to deal with my anger. But today my brother brought in a friend to our business and they ate lunch. First, they didn't tell me they were there and I happened upon them. My mom had told me earlier in the day that they were coming but neglected to inform me they were here. So I came out when they had finished eating. Then we talked and chatted and were, you know, being nice to each other and the man looked at my mom and said, "So, do you run this business?" She pointed at me and I immediately said, "DO NOT POINT AT ME, I DO NOT RUN THIS BUSINESS - SHE DOES!!!!" Then under my breath (but everyone could hear me....it was directed at my brother......I whispered.....) "BUT I COULD DO A GREAT JOB OF RUNNING IT IF I WERE GIVEN THE CHANCE......." And then I continued to rant and ravde about don't say I run it when you clearly run the show and make all the decisions..............and my brother said, "Get off your soap box, girl....." And I realized that I popped off. I totally made an ass of myself. It was like I was screaming to the top of my lungs....................................NO, I DON'T RUN THE SHOW BECAUSE MY FREAKIN MOTHER IS A COMPLETE NARCISSISTIC CONTROL FREAK!!!!!!!!!!!
How voiceless does that make me?????
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((((((((((((((((((((((((Overcomer))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Don't lose faith in yourself because forgiving isn't coming as easy as you'd like or as easy as Joyce makes it seem it should. I think my motto on the board is, Give yourself permission to take as much time as you need to heal
Hugs,
tt
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Thanks tt: I just cannot redoum get over my anger when it stares me in the face each and every day! It is like a wound that is almost healed and someone rips the scab off too soon! I went to career builder and applied for a new job!
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If this is true, then that kid in Virginia was horribly voiceless... and I strongly believe that he was. I'm not justifying or defending him. Just saying: if anger comes from voicelessness, and voicelessness comes from emotional / psychological / physical abuse, this kid must have been through seven kinds of hell.
God have mercy on us all.
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Dear tt,
I have learned a lot and have found some inner peace .
Does it have to take 30 thirty years ? maybe takes as long as it takes to work on issues...
love to you
Stormy ,
The kid must have been though Hell whatever happened to him and the engine of his inner pain...
God does have mercy on us
moon
"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule ,nor scorn human actions but to understand them" - Spinoza
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Dear tt,
I have learned a lot and have found some inner peace .
Does it have to take 30 thirty years ? maybe takes as long as it takes to work on issues...
love to you
Moon, it has been a joy to have witnessed via the board, your growth, and to have the privilege of walking with you along the way. So encouraging.
tt
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Storm,
Examining the question in light of what happened in Virginia is a sad and disturbing challenge for us all.
:( My heart hurts.
tt
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Hi OC,
Give yourself permission to take as much time as you need to heal
I know you are paddling as hard as you can on the path of recovery. I WAS enmeshed with my mother. I'm not now. It took years to get from there to here. SIGH of RELIEF AND THANK THE LORD! I wish I could give you a workable outline of how I did it, but truth is that each of us has to find our own path to our authentic self. I read one of your original posts where you said you'd worked with your Mom for 10 1/2 years. Honey, if you can do that, you can do anything! There is light at the end of the tunnel. In the meantime, all you can do is all you can do.
Loved the photo of you and your daughter.
tt
Edit In: OC, I read Joyce's biography a few years ago. As I remember, she recovered from her abuse over a period of years, not in one fell swope of forgiveness. If you're talking in ideals, purposed spot on forgiveness is realistic. If you're talking recovery from repeated abuse, then a process must play itself out unless an instantaneous, supernatural miracle takes place. MHO
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Boy that is what I want-a supernatural healing from this Chinese Water Torture type abuse I have endured for so many years. Yes my original post said I had been working with her for over 10-Now it has been over 13-And I am still dealing with it! But thanks for the words of encouragement-I need it!
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You got it CB! People tell me I can endure the angst for the flexibility I have in my job-but my self esteem has eroded over the years and I would rather work more hours and feel good about myself. I love the work I do but having her there is like a mill stone around my neck. I got to that point with my ex too-keeping the family together was less important than my sanity.
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OC,
Okay, so what you need now is a new job. You may not be able to look for the perfect job to replace the one you have now. You may need an interim job to get you out of this environment and rebuild your sense of competence.
I think you should look in the classifieds for jobs that will get you out of the business and out of the Karpman triangle you have going with your mom. Don't worry about getting the perfect job. Just get out of this no win situation and give yourself some mental peace while you plan the next step.
I think you are going to feel really good when you can get that clarity.
CB
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Thanks for your support but my financial obligations are such that I have to make a certain amount-that is part of the trapped feeling. So I am praying for God to intervene either by providing the perfect job or make something happen to make my situation bearable.