Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: poetprose on April 12, 2007, 07:45:39 AM
-
Hello all
I was wonderng if chronic complaining was a typical N trait, I know that both my hubby and his dad are chronic complainers, and sometimes it really gets to me...... it is like no matter what good thing happens they have to drag it down to the gutter, find fault with something......... it is to the point i dont even enjoy going to restraunts any more because he will find something to bitch and complain about.....
I also notice that both he and his dad "awfullize" - they exagerate something 100 times worse than what it is....... do you think it is a type of sabotage?
and if you are happy* it is like they wont let you???
-
Hi Poetprose,
I was just talking to a couple of people about this yesterday. I asked them what they thought the difference was with certain people, because we all need someone to hear our complaints sometimes. They said with certain people, it's because it's ALWAYS about them.
As far as chronic complaining, I think it depends on the person and what's going on in their life. Not long ago a minister had the idea for people in his congegation to not complain, wear a bracelet, and then start over when they complained. They then had a psychologist on that said sometimes certain people might need to complain because it helps them feel better. This was all in one of those tiny blurbs on the news, so they did not mention cognitive therapy, depression, etc.
I guess with your hubby and his dad, what purpose do you think it serves in their life, and what can you do to have that inner shield? I struggle with that with my mother, and it's usually because I feel guilt- and I think the guilt happens so automatically that I don't even catch it when it happens. I hope to do better with that, because I know no one can fix her life or prevent her from dying.
cats paw
-
It was as a young adult that my brother pointed out to me the culture of negativism that my father lived in. How could I have not noticed it? Perhaps it was the water in my fish tank. The criticism and judgement that pours out of him is extraordinary, the reasons something will fail are 100 to the 1 why it won't.
But I do so clearly see that this astonishing judgement and negativism comes directly from his parents and it so desparately destroyed his life. It is that very force that I am battling in my own life. That is clearly one of the things that left me friendless - too much negativity about everything. Now I have been able to turn it around about other people and about things in the world. My big job is to turn it around about myself. I am so very negative and judgemental about myself. The chronic complaining is a hallmark of true N behavior in my limited experience. - GS
-
I call this "bashing". My H listens to talk radio. They constantly bash people, make them out to be idiots. I can't stand listening to it. Often when I am in the car with H, I have to. I want to open the door and jump out. He justified this talk as I recently asked him how he can listen to that. Something about needing to know what is going on in the world and standing up for what's right...he went on and on and in his intelligent style, lost me. He always goes on and on about liberals. If he is talking to someone and they bring up an issue, my H will become an expert and go on and on bashing the issue. You can't do anything but agree he is so passionate. I usually exit the conversation/group of people. I cannot listen to it.
This complaining serves to elevate the complainer. No one knows as much as they do, how dare someone have a different opinion, they are Mr. Know-it-all. I have noticed my H's dad is really bad...The furnace guy came to fix the furnace and didn't get it right. So my FIL called him a nasty profane name. I couldn't believe it. The guy came at night, drove an hour to help them, and that's what the poor guy gets? Basically, my FIL told us all what an idiot the guy was. My MIL stood up for the furnace guy, made excuses. I told my therapist that I see myself falling into his parents trap...I am not going to go through life bailing out my H, jumping in a saving my boys from their dad's twisted thinking and lack of listening and understanding. I am sick of pointing out the good in people that he has bashed. I end up getting defensive for these poor people and I have no clue half the time if they are worth it. I just hate listening to them be unfairly bashed. So glad I learned the concept of defining people from the outside in. My H doesn't even give them a chance.
Does all this make sense? I know that complaining is an N trait.
MK
-
I was just talking to a couple of people about this yesterday. I asked them what they thought the difference was with certain people, because we all need someone to hear our complaints sometimes. They said with certain people, it's because it's ALWAYS about them.
As far as chronic complaining, I think it depends on the person and what's going on in their life. Not long ago a minister had the idea for people in his congegation to not complain, wear a bracelet, and then start over when they complained. They then had a psychologist on that said sometimes certain people might need to complain because it helps them feel better. This was all in one of those tiny blurbs on the news, so they did not mention cognitive therapy, depression, etc.
I guess with your hubby and his dad, what purpose do you think it serves in their life, and what can you do to have that inner shield? I struggle with that with my mother, and it's usually because I feel guilt- and I think the guilt happens so automatically that I don't even catch it when it happens. I hope to do better with that, because I know no one can fix her life or prevent her from dying.
Well the thing with both of them is that this negative chronic complaining is not a "situational thing", even when my hubby and I took a cruise on the Carribean, something new something exciting we both were looking forward to it........ HE STILL!! looked for things to complain about, to be miserable about...... after awhile it wears you down, and his dad has been this way for as long as I have known him
both my hubby and his dad can not have friends*... they don't have any because nobody can live up to them, and my father inlaw can not get along with any of his neighbors he fights with every one of them....
so i honestly think it goes beyong a situational thing more into a personality disorder type thing
-
Poetprose,
>>>>>>Yeah, I think their self-centeredness is behind the constant complaining. Narcissists are so wrapped up in themselves, that everything negative that happens is a personal affront. If you notice, they think that most drivers are on the road just to ruin their day and make them late! The exagerrating is probably just their perspective on how important the incident is in the grand scheme of the universe. <<<<<<
oh boy I could write a book on how angry my husband gets at drivers who do the exact same thing on the road that he himself does but denies it* lol
>>>>I think anybody can fall into the habit of chronic complaining. They don't necessarily have to be an N. I think it can be a habit, rather than a preoccupation with oneself. Some people just say whatever is going through their mind at the moment, and some people have a lot of negative stuff going through their mind. <<<<<<<
Good point I never considered it to be a bad habbit that they both have not come to realise.... they both will deny that they are chronic complainers and unhappy people
>>>>If you watch, an N will also exagerate good things too. Anything having to do with them is bigger than life. Their good ideas, their business plans. The universe is holding its breath, waiting for the next event in N's life--good or bad. <<<<
Oh yes!!!!! whatever my husband buys, and if he tells his dad...... it ALWAYS becomes a competition between them, I have never seen such competition going on between the sons for the dads appraisal...... and of course the dad (father inlaw), is too arrogant to allow any of his sons to have anything on the same level as him.........it really is sad to me... it is like 2 little boys fighting for daddys attention
CB
-
But I do so clearly see that this astonishing judgement and negativism comes directly from his parents and it so desparately destroyed his life. It is that very force that I am battling in my own life. That is clearly one of the things that left me friendless - too much negativity about everything. Now I have been able to turn it around about other people and about things in the world. My big job is to turn it around about myself. I am so very negative and judgemental about myself. The chronic complaining is a hallmark of true N behavior in my limited experience. - GS
I remember one day being so fed up, with the ongoing complaining about the neighbors , then the kids then this then that.... that i just threw my T-towel down and in a very convicted voice turned to my hubby and said....... .
"You can take away my rights you can takeaway my fight.......but you will NEVER take my poem"!!!!!! ( because it comes from within ) then i started singing lol have no idea why
-
This complaining serves to elevate the complainer. No one knows as much as they do, how dare someone have a different opinion, they are Mr. Know-it-all. I have noticed my H's dad is really bad...The furnace guy came to fix the furnace and didn't get it right. So my FIL called him a nasty profane name. I couldn't believe it. The guy came at night, drove an hour to help them, and that's what the poor guy gets? Basically, my FIL told us all what an idiot the guy was. My MIL stood up for the furnace guy, made excuses. I told my therapist that I see myself falling into his parents trap...I am not going to go through life bailing out my H, jumping in a saving my boys from their dad's twisted thinking and lack of listening and understanding. I am sick of pointing out the good in people that he has bashed. I end up getting defensive for these poor people and I have no clue half the time if they are worth it. I just hate listening to them be unfairly bashed. So glad I learned the concept of defining people from the outside in. My H doesn't even give them a chance.
Does all this make sense? I know that complaining is an N trait.
Oh boy Can I relate..... i have felt the exact same way "sick of defending the innocent from them", you and i will be defending for the rest of our lives............
what bugs me too is that my hubby does see his dad for who he is.......... he is embarresed to take him to restraunts, or the bank or grocery shopping because he flips out and starts screaming at the workers........... YET!! my hubby cant see he is that he has become the very thing that he hates in his dad " a miserably spirited man"
I think they need to be visisted by 3 ghosts :-)))
-
Complaining drives me nuts, even in myself...that's why I'm on Antidepressants. N's ARE chronic complainers for sure.
Everything you say or do is taken as a personal assault and it's very aggravating, cause you know you didn't intend it against anyone, but the N assumes like a trigger reflex reaction, that you are "out to get them" just like "everyone else."
Personally, it drives me nuts to a point that I just would rather steer clear entirely and usually, I'm able to, thank God.
~Laura
-
Complaining drives me nuts, even in myself...that's why I'm on Antidepressants. N's ARE chronic complainers for sure.
Everything you say or do is taken as a personal assault and it's very aggravating, cause you know you didn't intend it against anyone, but the N assumes like a trigger reflex reaction, that you are "out to get them" just like "everyone else."
Personally, it drives me nuts to a point that I just would rather steer clear entirely and usually, I'm able to, thank God.
~Laura
It is deffently hard to cope with at times, it tugs on your spirit and your mind.........i dont think it is natural for anyone to be so miserable inside.........
-
My husband has watched, over the years, as many of my friends would launch into complaining sessions or saying they just want to die...his reply, "If they are that unhappy, hand them a gun!"
I used to think "HOW EVIL!" and well, there is still THAT, about his attitude toward these people, but, honestly, if the point is, "if you are so miserable, why not just not be here" I can understand the logic of that feeling.
What IS the point of constantly being depressed, unhappy, angry, jealous, resentful in your life (barring a severe, painful thing like Cancer or something like that) I have come to realize at 40 years old, and through all the crud I've endured in my days, just how much of a "vapor" life actually is on this planet. THrough that realization, I have also begun to respect it more and get more from it.
IF whatever you are doing is not bringing you happiness, and you are able to, STOP DOING IT! Change and do something different. Now, this will take something that many people are not comfortable with...it's called RISK, STEPPING OUT OF THE BOX. If you never do anything new or different though, how will you know what's out there?
I'm an adventurer and I love the adventure called love and life! Live it to the FULLEST!
~Laura
-
Yeah, I understand, coming from a place where I have lost so much, my mother my sister and my father, i guess it has given me a deeper appreciation of life and just how tangable it really is
maybe that is why I get so frustrated with those who have "much" to be greatful for, yet complain and whine it all away....
but on the flip side of the coin, how can i expect them to have my appreciation for life when they have not had that "awakening" to the fact that life is so temporal that you can be here one day and gone the next....
-
This is soooo much "on the money" as far as my N is concerned. He never stops complaining! If he isn't doing it out loud it is in his mood and gestures and look. He is unhappy with everyone and everything. How dare they ask him to act like a human being???
I heard recently because these people think they are ENTITLED to have everything go their way, and when it does not, of course, as any normal person knows it can't/won't, they can't handle it. And want everyone's sympathy. And pity. More supply for them right?
My NH also makes fun of everyone, even his closest friends and family. Anyone is fair game. Except for his dear mommy as long as she is still feeding his Nisms. I never could believe how mean he was when I first started dating him and he would point people out and make fun of them while we drove in the car. And of course be angry at the way THEY drive. He can find fault with ANYTHING and ANYONE! And does so regularly.
I have had the furnace type experience mentioned above too many times. I have been so embarrassed by his behavior this way over the years. Nothing is done right, because only HE can do things right! He actually gets mad when people ask to be paid for work they have done---he throws a fit---how DARE they ask him for fair payment for work done or services provided and if he decides he can't pay he will make something up to be mad about to refuse to pay. But how dare they???? "Can't anyone just HELP HIM out for once???? " "Why won't anyone just give HIM a break???" Heard this just yesterday---we went on and on for 30 minutes about it.
I hate to go out with him anywhere too because he always complains about anything and everything and if by some miracle, the service is good and the food is good, then he seems to end up with a stomach ache to complain about all night---or that he ate too much and now is soooo uncomfortable!
It's misery to be around him.
He will even call me up on the phone, not say "hi" and immediately go into a tirade about someone who made him mad during the day. The bank teller who ask him to give her the account number before she does a transaction, they grocery store clerk who is "rude"---anything. Will go on and on and on, like I am some trash can for his emotions he can't control. I have answered his phone calls to him swearing and yelling, but of course, it's NOT supposed to affect ME, he is only venting and I am too over sensitive and don't care about HIM if I say that it bothers me to be his whipping post. He is nice to everyone, even the person who made him mad, (usually justified behavior on their part) and then lets loose on me. Lucky me
Good grief, it is so exhausting! I could go on, but considering this is on a thread about complaining too much......... :)
I put my ipod on on with my earphones just to shut him out a lot lately! HA! Thanks for the thread!
Take care,
Sunny
-
I heard recently because these people think they are ENTITLED to have everything go their way, and when it does not, of course, as any normal person knows it can't/won't, they can't handle it. And want everyone's sympathy. And pity. More supply for them right?
Yep...They do feel Entitled.
The other thing is, they see people as their extentions or creations. If you think about it, if someone created a robot and programmed it a certain way, they'd expect it to only do what they programmed into it, right? Well, the N programs a child in that way, so when, as an adult, their offspring catches on and decides to actually do something other than what was programmed, the N gets FURIOUS and CONFUSED! How is this ROBOT thinking for itself, it must ONLY do what I TELL it to. Such is the mind of the typical pathological narcissist.
One more thing on the topic of what love is, and I will start a new thread to elaborate more on this: Love usually involves some sort of SACRIFICE.
To those of you with "parents" who were and are self-seeking, conceited, "all about me" that is NOT any form of LOVE. I'm sorry to let you know, but it's just not. Love is not self-seeking. It involves meeting the needs of the other person. Now, that's in balance...not to always put the other above self, but to be sure and pay attention to the needs, especially of a child.
~Laura
-
IN his new book, "A New Earth", Ekhart Tolle talks about this. He explains it in terms of a "pain body" that needs to feed on more pain to sustain itself. Everyone has a pain body, but in some it is very strong and almost insatiable. The desire to see violence in entertainment, the search for bad news to read, the need to feel pain and extole it, the finding fault in everything, all of these behavoirs are driven by our pain bodies (sometimes collectively). Expressing pain, finding out what to do about it (if anything) and then moving on is one thing (healthy and human)....but focusing and seeking out the "bad" simply feeds it. He says that what passes for "normal" is actually quite insane (I agree with him on that one.)
The antidote? Awareness. If we step outside or the "egoic self" and really see what is going on....we can choose another way.
Anyway, it's a interesting book that I highly recommend.
-
mum,
I really really love Eckhart Tolle! I have his Power of Now book and have read it and reread it several times. It brings me peace. I have it and several otherso f his on audio as well! I was not aware he had this new one out! I'll be checking that out for sure, as I am intersted in just about anything he says and the way he says it!
Thanks for the reminder, I haven't read him for a while. You must be the reminder angel I needed to hear today to find some peace, which is always the result from his work.
Namaste,
Sunny
-
Mum,
Enjoyed your info and explanation about the "pain body" and that everyone has one. I think it speaks to what I was wondering about- the differences in the complainers.
My best friend complains a lot, but she's not N.
I've toyed with the idea of reading Ekhart Tolle, but now, I'll make it a point. Would you recommend "A New Earth" as a stand alone read, or would it be better after reding his previous writings?
-
I had an experience yesterday that really has caused me pause - just because it was such a strong example of the title. Yesterday I went to my Garden Club meeting. It is a large group of ladies that my mother and my father's mother belonged to and many of their social friends. Most everyone in it has many millions of dollars. I am certain that I am the lone poor person. Next year our club is hosting a regional meeting and we will be spending upwards of $70,000 to $80,000 to do so for 250 -300 people.
The program yesterday was someone I grew up with. her mother and my mother were lifelong friends. Her mother was very wealthy and died many years ago making this person very wealthy. They are from the family that owns the local Coca-Cola bottling company. This person has started a magazine about flowers. Only one issue has come out. She hopes it will be a national magazine and they have 1100 subscriptions in 37 states so far.
Last night I was telling my mother about it and she was very critical. "Was it interesting?" "What did she talk about? What is there to say about a magazine?" "Well I'm just not interested." It was just amazing - suddenly I was thrown back into some kind of malstrom - one that sucked the lifeblood out of hope and joy, one that would not allow for dreams pursued that waited for every good thing that came along so it could be shredded.
The forces that have worked against me are popping up at me in every direction. It is helpful to begin to see them and less fearful and powerful than I would have expected. I have so much more to explore here but have to get son to school. I really have so much more to put together. - gs
-
Oh g s I relate to this. Why is it whenever we think something is cool our moms can turn it into nothing? My daughter dropped not of college and wants to go to beauty school. She told my mom and immediately got the wind knocked out of her sail. I Knew my mom could ruin it for her. Now she has to try to convince her grandma that it is ok to be a hair stylist.
-
You know overcomer I am so close to getting something. Between the original post, what Mum wrote about Ekhart Tolle's concept of "pain people", your post and something going on in my mind I am getting it about the negativism. It's sort of like, "If it's not mine then I'm not for it."
I am keeping my focus on the fact that N's have experienced severe emotional trauma and comparing that to my own experiences of growing up in N family that seemed normal and appeared to live the good life (even to me.) I am getting why I have been feeling so powerless for the past several years. Part of my power came out of the role of critic. And then it rolled into a sense of utter helplessness to be critical of everything. But my mother's response yesterday was what I lived in my entire life. It comes out of a need to put down that which is big and newsy that is not mine. While others may glom onto such exciting things - those just outside become critical and put it down. I have participated in that same culture enough to understand it.
Now I see that part of my powerlessness has been in growing up with parents who held ALL the money. Never shared except drips and drabs and yet if I went out to do something they were never there for support or encouragement but rather to detract and put down. It is only in understanding Narcissism that I am able to make any sense out of the non-sense of my parents working against me psychologically.
I can tell that I am getting closer to breaking through. The pain of it is indescribable.
I'm going to try to put it in writing. If there was something that I wanted to do that was part of my development growing up my parents might support it if it did not interfere with their life or their image in any way. My father was a big tennis player so I took up tennis. But when I wanted to play tennis tournaments (which entailed traveling) my parents put their foot down even though their freinds and relatives chidren went to the tournaments. After a while they relented. As I became more competitive my father would raise the bar. If I developed a killer serve he would begin demanding that I be able to hit a specific square a specific % of time. In other words the perfection demanded was too great to meet and the criticism that followed was unreal. This happened over and over in many, many areas until eventually I shut down and no longer coped. When I struggled and needed help I could not ask them because that would be fodder for punishing humiliation rather than constructive assistance or advice. This aspect has never changed.
Here I sit today, struggling financially in indescribable ways and yet my parents, both of whom have enormous amounts of money are not willing to help. Consequently, I feel not only powerless but a sickening unworthiness. Which translates on a deep psychological way to feeling helpless - that no matter what I do I will still be criticized and I will fall short in a humiliating way. I have written here before about being set up to do things without being given the resources to accomplish this and then being punished for failing.
I am beginning to understand why I have had such a difficult time getting on my feet. It feels impossible and I finally understand why. I am still trapped in a psychological prison and it is excrusiatingly painful. I truly believe that I must completely rid myself of critisizing others and truly holding my parents in some sort of place of compassion without letting them destroy me.
I am so close to getting this gordian knot untangled and finding my way out. I am so close.
-
GS,
I know what your talking about concerning your parents not helping and then criticising you if you can't measure up. Withholding help. My parents don't have a lot financially, but won't help either emotionally (which would be all I need really) or financially and only sit back and laugh if I fall on my face. They laugh at and misjudge everyone, it's bizarre becaue they really have nothing to boast about themselves except for their own self-righteousness (really religious people). I guess that is their narcissism---everyone else is so stupid except THEM, you know.
Heavens, wonder why I don't want to have anything to do with them. I won't tell them anything about my life--never have--- because I didn't want to be made fun of and judged and gossiped about behind my back. They really set me up to fail in life with no guidance, no self-esteem, no financial support, nothing. Nothing at all. Only critcising behind my back. Basically ignored but expected to be perfect at the same time. Trying to be perfect to get noticed, or at least not condemned.
Yes, Cb, it was a gift, in some ways, and such awful things to do in many other ways that I wrestle with it a lot. I have tried NOT to judge and be bitter and it has been a struggle for sure. Do I "forgive" them?-----yes, basically and thank them for my self reliance, but I don't respect them for the neglect and I don't wish for the torture to continue any longer which I know it will if I go around them again.
I am expected to be a certain way, with certain ideals, and no opinion of anything. Carbon copies of them. I even got a full scholarship to college and my mother just told me shame on me for not getting a job in high school to pay for college (????) instead of playing my sports (which is what I got the scholarship for). She is really impossible. Since I didn't have a job (except for summers) she refused to help me with any needs or expenses I had during the year. Nothing, sometimes I begged for entrance fees to play sports or to get personal hygiene neccessities.
Mom would not even go with me to sign my scholarship" intent" papers, I had to beg my dad to go with me since I needed an adult present. Weird cause he never watched me play any sport or do any event ever in 10 years of sporting accomplishments and constant events and practices to which I found my own way there. Washed my uniforms, paid my dues, daily practice---none of it. Neither was my mother at any of them. I walked everywhere. I basically took care of my self in every way, brought home good grades, trophies, awards, certificates, anything I could win, but.......nothing. Nothing. At least they didn't force me to do it, I guess.
I guess what I am saying and I don't want to make it sound like bragging, is that I get the parent thing you wrote about is definitely something I can relate to, and I guess it triggered me this morning. Think I will have to write in my journal about it a it more soon. Thought I had put it behind me....
But hey, my NH's mother has just given my husband everything he ever ask for money-wise since we have been married that he thinks she is the bank. She married money on purpose her sixth marriage for security and has bilked her poor elderly husband out of hundreds of thousands giving money to her lazy, whining screw-up kids. My husband seems to think she is the bank. She is just enabling him. And controlling him. I am grateful for the help because he has been so lazy and made so many finanicial mistakes and blunders over the years we have had no choice to accept help from her--it was that or starve and freeze. But my point is here, that besides her keeping score and holding it over his head for the last 17 years......she has created a monster 40 year-old who does not know how to stand on his own two feet and be self-sufficient, therefore having done him NO FAVORS at all. I just curse her now because she has set him up to be her puppet and to control him for a lifetime. I think, maybe, if I had my choice, I would rather be forced to stand on my own two feet even and have a backbone to handle life----even if it makes me mad and hurts, than be crippled by "help" and the payback expected from the helpers" who really turn out to be wolves in sheeps clothing, IMO.
And finally, your desription of your father is exactly what my NH is doing to our teen daughters, even down to the tennis which he forces them to play since that is what he is interested in. He would do the same thing. In fact, he has pushed them into music since they were young and they are now having solos and special performances because he has forced them to "be the best" (like he thinks he is) and when they need special rides to their solos and concerts he is mad (complains) and a nuisance about taking them or makes them late or upsets them before they perform enough that they sometimes mess up, and then he is angry and embarrssed by them. And lets them know it. He makes such a jerk of himself "helping" them with their upcoming solos, that they are so nervous to mess up in front of him that they can hardly get through it. My 13 y/o actually started crying at a performance she had to do last month right after I broke my leg and could not attend to run interference for her and comfort her in spite of his nonsense. Which is what I usually do--calm them down enough they can perform. She cried through the entire performance, he taped it, I watched it after and it broke my heart. She was just too nervous with him there expecting her to be perfect. G-d, I hate him for that---and the dumbest thing ever is that if I were to bring it to his attention, he would not even GET IT! He would blame all of us for being overly-sensitive and ridiculous and PMSing or whatever, but he never sees the damage he is inflicting and how much he hurts everyone around him. Denies it--calls us all crazy and stupid basically. They crap of it is, that when I divorce him, I won't be able to save them from it when he is havin his "time" with them. He will bully them and I won't be able to comfort them and help them cope in any way, and the thought of that has kept me here for waaaaay too long.
I am so sorry you guys, everyone, I didn't mean to hijack and go on and on, but this triggered me I guess. And I needed to vent a bit on this this morning apparently....shoulda started a new thread!
Good luck with dealing with this, I am rooting for ya since you are just about to untangle the knot, so to speak. I hope so. You are way ahead of me! I usually just try to ignore the crap (with the folks anyway). NH keeps me too busy trying to deal with his antics! :shock:
Well, thanks for listening.
Namaste,
Sunny
-
OH G S And all...I think you and I lived parallel lives. My mom uses the word entitled all the time, "we would not want you to think you are entitled to anything." No we prefer to watch you struggle while we wittle Away at your self esteem. We will watch you try and fail and then we will not trust you because you have never proved yourself worthy. Yes I neglected to raise you worthy of a bright beautiful child and now woman but I could never tell you that because it might give you a big head
-
And besides I could never tell you you were good and honorable and a great parent and a nice person and worthy-no you are not worthy of me because only I get the limelight. Only I get to be the one so sorry I have to step on you on my way to glory-you are not like me so do not think I am going to reward you for having a brain or thinking differently than I. After all, dont you know who I am?
-
HI.
A couple of thoughts:
GS: it's really brave of you share your untangling...and as my niece (former severely addicted drug addict) told me: Pain seems to be the portal to great awakening...I'm sorry the pain is so intense. Hang in there.
Sunny (et all):
re: your parents: What the H$#L???? I am amazed at your resiliency. I am always appalled by the Nparents some people have had here. Maybe my children will look back some day and notice that about thier dad as well. You say your NH, are you still married?
Cat's Paw: I would read "The Power of Now", without a doubt. If you can get it on cd or tape, even better, as he has this great, softspoken German accent! Actually that book helped me soooo much when I was desperately unhappy and "stuck". "A New Earth" does not need so much to follow that book, I think you could read them any which way, but since the Power of Now is so out of the box, it might be a better introduction to start with.
love,
Mum
-
Wow Divine Sunshine - I am so glad you had the courge to write about your parents. It is such an incredible experience that very few people understand at all - understand or believe. Unless you have experienced life with narcissistic people it is impossible to understand.
I am so glad you shared you experience as painful as it sounds. It helps so much to know that other people have experienced something similar to what I have experienced.
CB - It is so funny to read your encouragement. I was thinking about you eariler tonight, thinking about what a wonderful employee you will make and how fortunate someone will be to have you, how I wished I could find someone like you to work with. Infact i wish several of us could team up and work together. I may be a little idealistic but I think we could build a great business and provide a nurturing work environment.
I am beginning to move from being resentful for my mother and her behavior to a positiion of teaching her. My mother and my son and my 15 year old nephew went to Meet the Robinson. My mother would be in this hyper mode where she was harsh and critical and over reactive to everything my nephew did. When i called her on it she backed down into a pitiful mode. I just stopped her right there and said, "Look, you are not going to be mean and you are not going to be pitiful." And lo and behold she agreed. Later, we were all at her house and I was upstair when my little boy came up to tell me that Grandmother is being mean to my nephew. I went downstairs and away from the children and asked her not to be mean to my nephew and her answer was, "But HE was being mean." "Well" I said, "you can still correct him nicely. " She thought for a moment and said, "I guess I could try."
I almost felt sorry for her for a moment.
I need someone to be nice to me. i have this place. I find that if I am nice then it changes me. So I am trying. It's harder than it should be but it is worth it.
-
sleepless night last night - leads to slight depression and darkness today. So much resentment came to light. So very painful. Hope to release it. Glad to get some clarity on it. I believe that help resentment is dangerous and destructive. But it hides so carefully behind things.
Resentful of the very things written about on another post - the giving by choice but not giving by request or what is needed. It is a whole issue of power and powerlessness. Ns need power. I want to claim my power back but am too tired today. Ready to release resentment - hope it all will come to the surface to be released.
Thought about what Margo said - I am thankful for the friendships here and for the dialogue here. This helps me feel not so terribly alone in this pursuit.
I am sad today. I am lonely today and I am fearful today. And I am thankful that I can be honest and open about that and not have everyone around me distance themselves. Seesaw up tomorrow.
-
GS,
I can tell you that lack of sleep really skews your perception. Be kind to yourself today. Don't expect yourself to be "up". Try to get a nap--or if not that, something really relaxing.
Resentment and anger are like a really strong drug. Given in small doses it can be good for what ails you. Too big of a dose and you are done for the day. Chronic overdosing will kill you.
Thinking of you today, GS...
CB
-
SORRY ABOUT MY SARCASM EARLIER! I just get so exasperated at all our parents. I am going to try what you did, GS, But I do not know he my mom would allow me to tell her she is not going to be mean or pitiful. She would give me her how dare look. I am sleepy too but not despairing-only thankful my busy schedule is over and I have a day to veg!
-
CB - I am so glad that this resentment made itself clear. It doesn't surprise me but I wasn't aware of how deep it was concerning my father. Just old stuff surpressed for years. Because I was not sleeping well last night I would awaken and feel a tension. In attempts to go back to sleep I would try to get at what was bothering me and in that hazy, exhaustion where my filters were low I would realize there was a bucket full of resentment. This process repeated itself several different times through out the wee hours. The sense of resentment and the memories and dreams all intermingled until it was 7:00am and no hope of more sleep.
Now I get to let go of that dark matter and hope that what more there is will find its way to the surface to be dispatched of as well.
Overcomer - one big difference between your relationship with your mother and my relationship with mine is that my mother thinks she needs me and is very clear that I will walk away if she is too unpleasant. I did a year ago when she refused to make an effort to address her passive aggressive behavior. I quit being around her for 4 or 5 months until she went to see a psychologist and then make specific changes.
Your mother hasn't gotten to a point where she "needs" you and so she thinks she can treat you unkindly. Part of the reason I did it was that I still react so strongly to her behavior. When she is unkind and judgemental my nerves go bonkers - I become anxious and the tension gets high. I have recently come to see that she gets this way when the situation is such that she feels out of control and has zero coping skills to help correct things - no humor, no gentle, kind redirection and teaching - just harsh, loud demands. It's like fingernails on the chalk board for me - so I told her to stop and she got all pitiful - that gross passive aggressive stuff like I had just beaten her - so I told her to stop that too. It worked for an hour or two. She just has zero coping skills and I have decided to have compassion on her for my sake, because it will help release my resentment towards her for a lifetime of mistreatment.
-
I seriously cannot see her ever needing me but someone once said "be nice to your children, they get to choose what nursing home you will go to."
-
Hi
I just don't know why people 'complain'. What good does it do?
It drags them down and drags down all their listeners.
I usually don't know what to do with a complainer!
xx
Izzy
-
I never heard my N complain. He calculated his every response to elicit exactly whatever emotion he desired. He saw complainers as weak. He was in control, and he did not EVER contemplate the things that he did not control as it was outside the arena of usefulness to him. He demanded, and instructed, and forced people to do his bidding, but never did he complain, it would have appeared that he was not in control if he complained. He would put people down, and attack their self worth and looks and intelligence to their face, but when they were out of site, they were out of mind usually, unless he was devising a plan of revenge or plot of some sort to benefit himself. How can an N invest his energy into someone who will not benefit his false ego? To complain is to admit that you are not the center of the universe and you are not in control.
-
My nmom doesn't complain about her life or anything to do with "her." Her complaints are that people do not comply with her every whim. She uses phrases like "I hate this computer" (because it is slow - how dare it?) "These people who think they can hold me over a barrel, I'll show them....." (about employees.....)
I find myself complaining because I feel like I am in a prison that I cannot escape from. I hate this about me. It is the negative energy my doc talked to me about. I try to replace it with positive talk, etc. but sometimes I just feel so beaten down - like I am in a nightmare that I cannot wake up from. So it is either anger, or complaining......
I want to get out of it and sometimes I feel like I am just about to get away and then my plans are dashed. I don't get my coveted job. I get sick and am bed ridden for two weeks. So not only am I not proactive, but I have to go back two weeks and try to catch up with life (laundry, cleaning, etc.......)
-
X complained a lot, but I think that was due to more borderline issues than to N ones.