Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: isittoolate on April 18, 2007, 07:42:01 PM

Title: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 18, 2007, 07:42:01 PM: Hi all--are you keeping track of my Therapy days?-- 7 under my belt now

My father was a rageholic and I just climbed into my little hidey-hole, to become a nobody. I never liked my father. I never loved my father. I was glad when he died and I never grieved for him.

My daughter meets an N (before I know about N-ism) and I don’t like him. I ask her to please not marry him. He already had her under his thumb and then he had me by the short hairs. He was a rager too, as time would prove.

I could not stand up to raging. It made me shrivel and hide away inside.

When SIL kicked me out, and I drove away from my daughter and my 2 grandchildren, my spirit was broken. (Okay okay Poor me!!) 3rd grandchild would arrive the next year!

I never thought of this as abandoning my daughter. I thought I was leaving her with her husband and children and I was on the outside. Just because she never told me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I drove away and left her trapped with him, no sitter for the kids and she and I lost contact.

I abandoned her for the second time.

The first time was when she was 5 and I was in the car crash and gone for a year.

I can see it—my Therapist and I were working with this last week and again today.

My daughter resents me for abandoning her and the children to be left with an N.

NOW!! No negative words re my daughter, so be kind with responses, please! Would you have resented your mother’s leaving you, to never return, with an N husband and 2 little children while you were being emotionally abused, but you hadn’t told your mother?

Then said mother (Me-IzzY) moves 2000 miles away with an N--- and is now putting all the pieces together--after being in a rageful situation for the third time

May the Good Lord have Mercy on this wretched soul!!

Love and Hugs
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: teartracks on April 18, 2007, 09:05:26 PM: ((((((((((((((((((((Iz, Daughter, Grandchildren))))))))))))))))))))))),
tt
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: pennyplant on April 18, 2007, 09:08:35 PM: Izzy, I won't pretend to speak for you daughter but I can comment on my opinion from some of the stories you have shared about her.

It seems to me like she is in touch with her feelings better than I ever was growing up. She shows some spirit in my opinion.

I think to myself that I would never have thought my mother abandoned me if she suffered what you have suffered.

But..... my job as a child should have been to be kind of selfish. Even if it would have been factually wrong for me to blame my mother and feel abandoned when none of those events was her fault, it would have been better for my spirit to have felt abandoned and angry about it because it would then mean I thought I had some worth. So, I see your daughter as feeling as though she has value in this world.

And eventually she may come to see that she knows she has value because of the way you, her mother, raised her and loved her to the best of your ability.

I think you and she may be farther along in improving your relationship than it might seem. Or at least, there is more potential than it might seem, because she values herself. She sounds strong inside. Not mush like me. Seems to me you had something to do with that good stuff inside of her. Hopefully someday she will get to that particular knowledge.

Pennyplant
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 18, 2007, 09:32:55 PM: Thank you besee, tt and pp,

The next things I have to tell the Therapist will be…….maybe…………..brand new for her. I am just trying to not overwhelm her with everything at once. I am making a list by year, from 1991-1998.

I told her she could “beat me down” whenever because I really need to know where I went wrong.

No 1 was… My daughter resents me for abandoning her and the children to be left with an N.

I can see that clearly, true or not!!

And pp

she is in touch with her feelings better than I ever was growing up

That is so true and I know it, so I thought I was being a better mother than mine was. Today my therapist said that my mother didn’t deserve to be called a mother! Wow! What a statement!

Can you extrapolate on this comment, please, pp?
…….angry about it because it would then mean I thought I had some worth.

I feel full hope regarding your last paragraph, pp!

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Overcomer on April 18, 2007, 10:02:27 PM: Iz: Remember when I asked you If you might have done something and then the thread got locked? I was trying to get you to see if maybe you had done something to make your daughter resent you even if you didnt realize it? I know my mom does not really mean to make me feel bad or that she is an evil person-but now that she knows how she affects me and refuses to change She now is responsible for her behavior. You will not abandon her ifyou know it hurts.
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Hopalong on April 18, 2007, 10:38:01 PM: Huge BRAVOS to you Izzy. What amazing work.

And ditto every word PP said (except the "mush like me" part, PP...)

xxoo
Hops
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 18, 2007, 11:05:26 PM: Hi OC,

I remember that, but I was not able, without the guidance of my Therapist, as I related the story step by step to see what could have been a truth right in front of my eyes, that I couldn't see! I have asked her to not spare my feelings, to dump it all on me when she hears the story and there is another perspective.

I am searching for the truth, and if I tell my story to the Therapist, in chronological order, she can put a spin on it that I might never have seen, as just a mother--just as she did with my driving away that day.

I will not abandon my daughter, but if I, raised by my 'whatever' mother, have been/done something I did NOT recognize that hurt my daughter enough to have her leave me, in spite of, I will have to accept it.

She and have still to have an honest, no fighting, conversation, but I cannot see when!!

THanks for your visit Hops

Yes I believe there is hope for both of us, but there is much.............okay, I will use it....................... mush to go through!
0XXoXooooooxxXXXXOOOOO
Izzy

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Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: debkor on April 18, 2007, 11:52:16 PM: Izzy,

Do you think your daughter cannot put her finger on whats wrong, really wrong with yours and her relationship?
Maybe she has a lock box of her own?

Mothers and daughters sometimes lock horns they are so much alike. I see so much of me in my daughter. She's a better version but boy oh boy it is like arguing with myself at times.

Love
Deb
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 12:27:42 AM: Hi deb,
My daughter has her own set of brains and I can see that she met up with an N so young in life that she might not have had enough chance to analyze what was transpiring., when he scrambled her thoughts so quickly.

She might not know, just as much as I don't know for sure, after all my years of analyzing the situation.

Some thing s, I expect, will be difficult for us to admit, face to face, whatever they are!

xxoo
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: debkor on April 19, 2007, 02:30:37 AM: Izzy,

Ya, I hear ya. I think back when I met my N I was not as young as your daughter but young, 24. I would bitch and cry to my sister and defend him at the same time.
I am sorry for your daughter. We all know the pain of hooking up with an N. They can really screw with your mind as he did with hers. She saw love, he saw prey. Someone to control and mold the way he wanted. I think that is what I get from what you post.

You and your daughter has been through some very traumatic experiences. You survived and had a normal/loving relationship, am I right, up until she met this N who gave her a life of hell starting from a very young age.

I know you spoke of her having abandonment feelings when she was five and you were in the hospital for a year. So did you, didn't you? Didn't you say that they didn't bring your daughter often to see you. I'm sure that took a toll on you and her. What could you do? You had to recover. What could she do, she was five. Everyone controlled your well being at that time, both of you. You both depended on people. You had no choice at the time.

You both got your life back together until N came along and snatched up your baby again. You knew he was a shit and tried to get through to her knowing she was in Love and nothing you were going to say was going to change it. So you bit the bullet and swallowed your heart for the love of your daughter.
He told you to leave, get out, you did.
Do you think Izzy you felt abandoned . You had no choice? He was in control. It was his house, his wife, his children and she did not fight him on it.

She might of felt that she had no choice again like she was five when you had to stay away and other family members took care of her. They made her choices when she would see you, how she would live, where she would live.
This was her family now. Who does she choose? Does she say, you stay, he goes. He stays, you go? Maybe she felt she couldn't make a choice. Maybe she thought she' didn't have one. Maybe she didn't want a choice she wanted someone to make it for her.
Maybe part of her is still 5years old unconsciously. This conflict brought back some deep hidden issues (feelings) of abandoment for her? Issues she does not even know she has.

I don't know Izzy. I have just been thinking about it.

I do know you are a good person Izzy. You are searching to see where it went wrong. I really want for you and your daughter/grandchildren to get back together again.

Love
Deb
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Gaining Strength on April 19, 2007, 08:21:43 AM: Izzy - I suspect the abandonment your therapist suggests is not something ever "thought" but was processed on an unconscious level. We all give and take offense at things that were not necessarily intentional. But our wounds are not determined by intent. I am convinced that healing requires letting go of resentment and fear but that it is much more difficult than it sounds.

As I read your first post in this thread I find such joy in seeing the astonishing changes and healing and I think about your first post and your moniker - Is it too late? I remember the board's resounding response, "NO" and I hear that response echo in your own words today.

I so admire your willingness and your ability to see through your daughter's eyes. I give thanks for the amazing process you are sharing with us. Much joy to you - Gaining Strength
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 02:58:03 PM: Hiya Deb

You have summarized everything so well, and also see that we have both had abandonment issues with each other.

She at age 5 and, yes, other people were running her life, as I was a "bit outta whack" for decision-making, for about 3 months, but then i chose forr her to go back to her before-sitter to live and begin kindergarten in out home town.

The part I missed was that I abandoned her when I drove away that day, but she was with her husband and children and I was now on my own so, yes, I took it as she had abandoned me, but I missed the fact that I abandoned her, because she was trapped with an N. Why not come to me before? Because I had asked her to not marry him. It's tough for anyone to admit being wrong in certain life-altering situations.

Quote
Maybe part of her is still 5years old unconsciously. This conflict brought back some deep hidden issues (feelings) of abandoment for her? Issues she does not even know she has.

Very interesting concept.

Thank you for thinking about it and seeing the detail to this
love
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 03:12:24 PM: Thank you CB

Yes this has transpired over an number of years, and I even mentioned to the Therapist that she might have abandonment issues regarding her father, as I left him when she was 2½. She mentioned him on occasion, one being at age 14, when she was receiving 4 awards upon graduation from Grade 8 and wanted him to attend. It was quite the conversation in trying to explain that he had no car and no money to attend....."oh but you have money. Send him some"...............and to try to explain that a downright alcoholic who had never been around, would likely buy booze with the money............."just send a ticket then".................and could sell at ticket for money.

Quote
You may be reading her right, or you may not.
and this is why I want as much info on myself and my actions/thoughts before I even open the topic with my daughter.

Thanks again as I keep on keeping on
love
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 03:25:49 PM: Quote from: Gaining Strength on April 19, 2007, 08:21:43 AM
Izzy - I suspect the abandonment your therapist suggests is not something ever "thought" but was processed on an unconscious level.
Hi GS

That is all too true as well as who would have thought that between mother and daughter???? of course we were not into examining the generational inheritances we had lurking somewhere within.

Quote
As I read your first post in this thread I find such joy in seeing the astonishing changes and healing and I think about your first post and your moniker - Is it too late? I remember the board's resounding response, "NO" and I hear that response echo in your own words today.

And then after that was the post when I said, "This is the point I usually leave!"--as once people knew my history I felt I wouldn't be liked. .............................and this is the first time I stayed.

Quote
I give thanks for the amazing process you are sharing with us. Much joy to you - Gaining Strength

I really need to share as I require as much input as possible, along with the therapist, to put my ducks in a row. I am gaining perspective week by week and as I mentioned in another post, I now must tell the therapist what transpired between 1991-1998 when I left Ontario for good.

Love
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Overcomer on April 19, 2007, 05:14:39 PM: Iz: I applaud you for going through this long, hard process..............having an objective therapist point out our weaknesses and mistakes is a painful thing to experience. I went through that process and have been in the process of trying to better myself for some time......years. I hope you and your daughter can get back to where you were long ago. Children probably don't understand the feelings they have and for many they do not come out for years. My friend once told me that rebellion and anxiety look better on a teenager than a 30 year old and we hate to see teens stuff their anger and disappointment only to have it rear it's ugly head in adulthood. That's what happened to me. I didn't see the light until I was 42 and that is a long time to stuff frustration and anger and hatred!!!!!

You go, girl!! Prayers to you!! Kelly
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 05:42:32 PM: Thank you OC

My daughter is just 42, but will be 43 on May 13---maybe this is her time

My life has been a long hard process since I knew, from mid-teens, that I had problems.

I tried very hard to not allow my dysfunction from my FOO affect my daughter's growth.

What I told my therapist, she did applaud me for recognizing what I had, and also the things I did for my daughter, that I never had, but, naturally, I wasn't perfect, so daughter inherited some of my vibes and unspoken things. Even though I messed up I was happy to have the therapist say that.

Now you see, as a teen I knew I was deficient, and maybe my daughter felt the same but her leaving home implied for good, but my leaving home, at 17, was to get a job, support myself, take the burden from the parents and go home and visit every weekend or two.

I also felt that my mother required help with the cleaning and the upstairs, so I did these things for her. I dusted her china cabinet top first of all, then crocheted her a runner to put on top, as it was right by the entrance door and now no one could see the dust when I was not there.

Daughter met an N, so her leaving and seldom returning, was very very hurtful to me. I am sure she knows now how she was controlled adn dominated by an N.

Hugs
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: pennyplant on April 19, 2007, 06:01:00 PM: It would have been better for my spirit to have felt abandoned and angry about it because it would then mean I thought I had some worth.

By me excusing everyone else's treatment of me (the ignoring, dismissing, picking on, coming in second place to my younger sister, etc.) I wasn't necessarily understanding what they were going through and why it was too hard for them to "give". I was in fact understanding these kinds of things: "Well, of course, I'm in the way, I'm not important, I'm worthless, I'm not lovable, etc."

The anger that I did have, I tried to repress. I actually felt sorry for my parents that they got stuck with me for a daughter. Wow, I was so brainwashed.

My own son fought me as a little child, and I have to wonder, how did he know I was wrong? How did he know he deserved better? I did not know such things when I was a child. I wanted better. But I didn't think I could have better.

It's all well and good to be very understanding of someone's real obstacles such as physical disability and things like that. But a child's first task is to understand their own world not the world of the adult. So, I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing for a child to let herself feel abandoned by an ill mom even though the mom didn't do it on purpose. The child has a very real need in this situation and if she can be allowed to feel the hurt, abandonment, anger, whatever, then she can eventually move on.

I got stuck for a long time because I didn't get to feel those things. I was meeting the adults' needs first. Rarely got around to mine.

So, I hope this makes sense in explaining that particular comment, Izzy.

PP
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 06:25:35 PM: Oh pennyplant. Life should be easy but it isn't

I understand all you said and it sounds so similar to me and my siblings!

As I tell my Therapist, I am still naive, at 68 (on April 28th). I disconnected very early in life and I never even knew that anger was anger etc. I never knew what to do! I was lost from away back then.

Very interesting about your son fightiing/knowing.

and NO. I am sorry. I don't get the quote! I am naive!

Now I am feeling less than adequate! but that is not new for me.

I never knew I had a spirit or a soul or a heart. I am disconnected from life/self. I am a logical "report it as I saw it happen" without any emotion.

Even when my Therapist tells me where I was 'wrong', I take it without falliing apart! I accept it as a truth.

BOY I AM IN DEEP!

LOVE
IZZY.
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Gaining Strength on April 19, 2007, 06:36:03 PM: And then after that was the post when I said, "This is the point I usually leave!"--as once people knew my history I felt I wouldn't be liked. .............................and this is the first time I stayed.

That's what I'm talking about!!! It would have been easy to post and run but you DIDN'T. You stuck around and posted and asked questions and help some of us luddites and became "community" with us and most of all you have made astonishing changes in the few months you have been here. You give me so much encouragement. I admire you very much Izzy. - your friend - Gaining Strength

and Pennyplant - I find your words on this tread so powerful, so clear and so helpful to read.
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 07:05:40 PM: OH GS
You make me feel so special

I am so glad I didn't post and run because I have realized that I am not the only one who has experienced many of the things that I have experienced, and are still here to write about it!

I learn from them too!

--AND I know I am welcome here!

Love
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Hopalong on April 19, 2007, 07:32:22 PM: Oh Iz.
This made me tear up:

Quote
And then after that was the post when I said, "This is the point I usually leave!"--as once people knew my history I felt I wouldn't be liked. .............................and this is the first time I stayed.

"Deficient" as a teen. My butt.

Such love your way,
Hops
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 19, 2007, 09:30:47 PM: oh Hops

You're a doll!............................................and I made your eyes wet

You are good for me!

Love
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Margo on April 20, 2007, 01:30:26 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on April 18, 2007, 07:42:01 PM
Hi all--are you keeping track of my Therapy days?-- 7 under my belt now

My father was a rageholic and I just climbed into my little hidey-hole, to become a nobody. I never liked my father. I never loved my father. I was glad when he died and I never grieved for him.

My daughter meets an N (before I know about N-ism) and I don’t like him. I ask her to please not marry him. He already had her under his thumb and then he had me by the short hairs. He was a rager too, as time would prove.

I could not stand up to raging. It made me shrivel and hide away inside.

When SIL kicked me out, and I drove away from my daughter and my 2 grandchildren, my spirit was broken. (Okay okay Poor me!!) 3rd grandchild would arrive the next year!

I never thought of this as abandoning my daughter. I thought I was leaving her with her husband and children and I was on the outside. Just because she never told me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I drove away and left her trapped with him, no sitter for the kids and she and I lost contact.

I abandoned her for the second time.

The first time was when she was 5 and I was in the car crash and gone for a year.

I can see it—my Therapist and I were working with this last week and again today.

My daughter resents me for abandoning her and the children to be left with an N.

NOW!! No negative words re my daughter, so be kind with responses, please! Would you have resented your mother’s leaving you, to never return, with an N husband and 2 little children while you were being emotionally abused, but you hadn’t told your mother?

Then said mother (Me-IzzY) moves 2000 miles away with an N--- and is now putting all the pieces together--after being in a rageful situation for the third time

May the Good Lord have Mercy on this wretched soul!!

Love and Hugs
Izzy

You know where I stand. I think both mother and daughter can come together, in understanding, to heal. She's not allowed to harm you in the process, though. I think laying down some rules for communication.... i.e. No name calling, no raising voices, no bringing up more than one problem at a time, no saying "You always...."

I can understand that she may very well feel like a child abandoned by her mother..... given her age at the time she became involved with the N. She was just a child, by my reckoning anyway. It doesn't mean she didn't make big girl decisions she's absolved of because she was "young."

You must also remember.... she's probably picked up on lot's of her N's blaming guilt inducing habits. She needs therapy too.

She's allowed to "feel" any way she's feeling. Feelings aren't wrong.... they just are. Maybe she needs to vent and feel understood before she can make higher connections to do with her part in her life. That's going to be hard on you.... I think.

On the other hand.... there's a saying..... "We often judge, and seldom forgive, our parentst." I believe that involvment with an N leads to confusion beyond any kind of regular confusion. She may still be reeling from that and just needs a bit of time to come out of the fog.... before she can see clearly again? Margo
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 20, 2007, 03:08:01 PM: Thanks Margo,

I hear you.

She has been in therapy since 1992, the year after "I drove away on demand" and she had a baby I didn't know about. She went into a depression.

Both the children with her are in therpay as well. I thiink she is doing well to get them in therapy early, The granddaughter does not even speak to her father (daughter's ex.)

This thing is generational. I can see it from my grandmother to my father (and mother) to me, to my daughter---it MUST stop somewhere.

Anthing I know about her after 1991 is piecemeal but I do know she worked and attended University for 5 years and has her degree, while her ex brainwashed her eldest child to go live with him, so she lost a child too.

This is not a simple misunderstanding. This does involve mental disorders brought on my emotionally retarded, or dysfunctional people from 4 generations.

Izzy

Edit in: They married in 1984--- this is 23 years later--her children are 20, 18, 15 this is not new. I expect her reeling time is over and the fog lifted when she left him in 1994
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: teartracks on April 20, 2007, 03:16:57 PM: Iz,

This thing is generational. I can see it from my grandmother to my father (and mother) to me, to my daughter---it MUST stop somewhere.

It is generational.

My regret is that I didn't know sooner. But now that I do, I won't stop trying to stop it in my family.

tt
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: Hops guest on April 20, 2007, 05:11:19 PM: The fog takes soooo long to lift in some lives.

Izzy, it is so good that you're beginning to see through your own, and that is a triumph of the spirit whether your D's foggy view ever changes or not.

Hops
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: axa on April 21, 2007, 05:56:57 AM: Izzy,

I want to tell you I admire your courage and determination. I hear how sad you are about the pain you have experienced in the past. I am sorry your daughter is in pain.

you are a brave woman who tried the best she could to protect your daughter from the pain of her alcoholic father. She must have anger towards his abandonment of her but you STAYED. Often it is the one who is accessable is the one who gets the rage. This may seem silly but her rage is HER rage. I see you trying to peel back the layers, grow and understand. This is the best you or any of us can do.

I salute you Izzy,

axa
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: isittoolate on April 21, 2007, 01:03:46 PM: Thank you tt, Hops and axa,

I was thinking just last night that the day would never be seen that MY mother would have gone to therapy, let alone think anything was 'out of whack' about her.

I think Daughter's fog has lifted but she might have thought the same of me as I just mentioned about my mother----however I told her differently so she knows my fog has lifted.

Now it is to piece together the things that fell apart.

Considering this "Edit in: They married in 1984--- this is 23 years later"--the length of time since she met the N, I can no longer think of her as the 19 yr old who went off to work in the city. Everything has changed, and it changed without my being around enough to see the cause--although I suspected her N.

Stopping to think of it, "I don't know her anymore" . Whatever words I read in an email, I picture the 19 yr old, but this is the 43 yr old saying them. So much time for us both to think our different thoughts and be apart doing are own thing!

I will not come out of this any worse than when I went in, I expect!

Thanks all
Izzy
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: teartracks on April 21, 2007, 05:16:53 PM: Iz,

I will not come out of this any worse than when I went in, I expect!

All of us here whack our way through the jungle armed with a plastic picnic knife at our own speed and with different results, BUT, I am proud to say that I am a better person today than seven years ago. I'm no longer Velcroed to the wall accepting whatever is thrown my way as if that's all there is. I mourn the losses, and there are many, but I celebrate when I successfully cast aside yet another dysfunctional fragment of what was handed to me from the cradle.

What you said is true. But from my experience, what seemed incredibly dismal and hopeless in the beginning, has, even with all the pain, become priceless. I found me. I think you will too.

tt
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: CB123 on April 21, 2007, 05:59:48 PM: All of us here whack our way through the jungle armed with a plastic picnic knife at our own speed

TT,

You have such a way with words! :D I want to put that line on a T-shirt!

CB
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: teartracks on April 21, 2007, 06:08:54 PM: CB,

Thanks. I appreciate those kind words. Print me one of those T shirts! Now isn't that a pregnant idea. Shouldn't we have a VESMB gift shop?

tt
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: axa on April 22, 2007, 04:42:55 AM: Izzy,

Just thinking here.......... your daughter is 43 years in age but what age do you think she is emotionally when she responds/does not respond to you. I often find it useful to think this way.... don't know if its any help.

I have no doubt that you are growing, it is painful but my experience is that you never go back to the same place, those steps we take add up to something

xxx

axa
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: OR on April 22, 2007, 11:23:55 AM: Hi, old friends and new posters.

I heard about the AB, recording and ran to the site to see if anyone was posting on this subject. So thank you for posting and just to comment on those that don't find intrest in certain post.
This board is for you to get help part of that is to expect what you have to say may appeal to others more strongly than others and just move on if you don't hit a nerve. Getting hurt or being offended is a waste your time and does not benefit anyone. This hit a nerve for me so thank you for posting.

I recently kept a letter from N, from my 14yo D regarding the frustration N-dad was having with her because she does not call or wright him like he expects her to.

To bring those up to speed I was given full custody of our D almost 2 yrs ago and the courts found her N-Dad, was not to send her letters about his health or adult things as a 12 yo at the time she would not have the emotional maturity to be involved in knowing these things. So I check his letters and sometimes I let her read them and sometimes I don't.

When I heard the tape it hit a nerve for me , how my own D, if she had read this last letter would have understood just how much SHE had insulted him etc. She somehow was not cabable of picking up a pin to write him or call him.

As I hear the news people, talk about AB, that he did go WAY over the line in calling his young daughter names.However, he was upset and this was a simple anger problem because of the divorce process.
I'm horrified wishing others were more aware of the deep rooted N problem he has.
How HE was so insulted and how SHE was less than human. I would hope this gets blown into more awareness as a mental N-illness and not resolved with a temporary anger management class. I understand the fear the mother Kim, must have and wanted others to understand.
So she was scream for othe to hear and know this may have been a mild outburst.

I felt this way when I was struggling for custody, I wanted the courts to understand the emotional abuse (never physical ) until the last days when he said he would stop me from moving to TX with a gun! You want others to understand how UN-beliveable the N can be.
Only if you have lived through life with an N can you image !

What she did was a cry for help to protect her daughter and herself.
Could you image what she was thinking the fear of his wrath and how to keep him from playing out his threats when he arrived for his young Ds, BIRTHDAY!

Along with deaths in the Virginia Tech College, mental illness in this country needs to addressed.
I think if AB, is going to have a Physic testing, he may play it different next time. He may be more passive aggressive or find away to get his anger across in time get his N out

My Ex even with the courts instructions to him not to write harmful thoughts to my D, he behaves for awhile but his N behavior is so deep rooted he finds away to get his sick thoughts out to her.

My Ex can not see my D without first having a Physic Test done , that has not happened and I don't expect he will ever have it. He often tells D, he will see her when she is 18 yo.

I'm so sad for the VT families and pray there will be emotional healing soon.

My Dad is coming into town today for a 1st time visit busy and must go !

take care OR
Title: Re: Facing the Rage~~~3 times~~~and still 'lost'~~
Post by: OR on April 22, 2007, 11:37:08 AM: Sorry I wrote on the wrong post