Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Overcomer on April 29, 2007, 10:23:35 AM
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Lately I have been talking to my mom via email but have never come right out and told her I think she has N P D. I am afraid to tell her. I know if I say she has it she will deny it. I have no problem telling others she has it. Has anyone else told the N they have N and what was the response?
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I suspected XN was an N for some time so I printed all of SAm V's information and hid it at my home. When I was at work one day XN was snooping and found the information. He picked me up from work and we went for a walk on the beach. He told me he had read all the info and that that was exactly how he was and how he felt. He said it was like finding out he had some kind of terminal illness. He also proceeded to tell me that he would never leave me and would ride me into the ground like a beach donkey!
Glad I left
axa
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Wow! He admitted it? I do not think she would EVER admit it-THAT would be admitting she was less than perfect and in control.
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A very wise counselor told me once that when you confront someone who is in denial, you can expect increased denial, plus rage.
She also said that the reaction is usually stronger when they are in denial about their own problem, than when they are in denial about someone else's.
If I were to tell someone I believe is an unrecovering alcoholic that I thought this of them, I'd be accused of defamation, undermining, who all knows what else. But the bottom line is - the person is mean, they get meaner when they drink, and they drink so they can have an excuse to be mean. What other conclusion can I draw?
A few years back I worked with a woman who was constantly advertising her goodness to the world. She coordinated the annual charity drive, ran the holiday party planning, etc. etc. etc. She was also the most incredibly vicious and manipulative backstabber I've ever seen in my life. Vindictive, sleeping with her boss, and so sensitive to narcissistic injury that if you got on the elevator before she did, she'd hold it against you forever. All the while smiling in your face and telling you how much she just loooooved puppies and small children [I never asked whether she preferred them baked or broiled, but I wanted to. Badly.] Ugh, makes me shudder just thinking about her.
The bottom line, I think, is that people have to learn for themselves; this requires that they experience the actual consequences of their narcissism, or other dysfunction; and that requires that we stop enabling them. It's much much harder to stop enabling someone than it is to tell them what we think is wrong with them - because telling them what's wrong with them is something you can do in a single sentence. To stop enabling them requires constant awareness and self-control.
Also, confronting someone in denial easily becomes a Karpman Triangle move, it can become Persecution getting ready to make them a Victim. I think this is why people invented interventions. One person doing it alone usually won't work. A group doing it is still dangerous if it becomes scapegoating. An intervention is a very serious and delicate operation. You need the equivalent of a surgeon to make sure it turns out 'right' and does no more damage than was already there.
Long winded, and my opinion, but I think you'd do better to concentrate on getting yourself out of the mess; not enabling mama any more than you have to; and letting her figure it out, if she can...
PS: Just saw Axa's response as I was previewing this. Yes, they will admit it. I walked my mother through an analysis of why her behavior and expectations were inappropriate a hundred times or more. She agreed with everything, and it changed nothing.
That's a tactic. Nod, agree, cry, promise to change, do nothing. Let us wear ourselves out, it saves them having to. When they apologize, take responsibility, and actually behave differently, then you're seeing progress. But not until then.
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Hi OC... I've never told an N they were an N. But when my parents were still living in the area my mother had my oldest daughters hair cut against her will and without my knowledge. I called livid and my Dad answered the phone and I told him that I thought my mother was an N. And I described what an N was and why I thought what I did and told him if anything like that ever happened again my mother would not see my children. It was strange, he agreed with me that my mother was like that but at the same time defended her. I know he told her because my mother quit making issues about my daughters hair and perfect hair is a huge issue for my mother. She didn't ever say a word to me about my conversation with my father.
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I like the analogy of N and alcoholism. I point blank tell my H that he is an A but he is always defensive but will admit to over doing it sometimes. Maybe by hinting to the things she does will help ease her into change?
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I like the analogy of N and alcoholism. I point blank tell my H that he is an A but he is always defensive but will admit to over doing it sometimes. Maybe by hinting to the things she does will help ease her into change?
Hinting will never ease an N or an A into change. They have to WANT to change after they get sick and tired of the consequences of their actions. Only when they hit bottom will the desire to change begin to develop. Groups like Al-Anon helps families and friends learn how to stop enabling and to detach with love.
Bones
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There was a pretty big discussion on this board a little while back about LABELING.
I really don't think that labeling people in itself has any real positive purpose to it other than to the person doing the labeling. And that's all in YOUR head anyway. You already KNOW the person is ...X. So what's the use in slapping that label on someone?
Better to take things piecemeal anyway. Get down to the particular BEHAVIOR (I know there's so many, but) that's bothering you and talk to them about that. Use the I feel...when you...X and I want you to do ....X instead. See what happens.
Then keep plodding along in this way until some behaviors change.
Just my thoughts...I've done both...breaking it down has been VERY effective. Labeling causes rage on the N's part.
Dandylife
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That makes perfect sense! I told my mom she needs counseling to figure out why she has the need to be the prettiest, most successful, young, well thought of person. I also said that something must have happened that made her have to be in control. Then in the next email I told her that I was not the problem and I was hoping after SHE went to counseling she may be more tolerant of people's differences, be more understanding, etc. Well maybe it was too much to the point but I want her to know.
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Kelly,
I think a big question to ask yourself is why do you want her to know? Break down in your own mind, or even on paper, what you want to accomplish by telling her. Do you want to tell her so her behavior changes?
I am beginning to think that narcissism is actually a deadly dance between the N and the non-N. The question becomes: do I want to stop dancing?
CB
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Hi Dandy,
Thanks for your wise question about labeling.
For me, after the first enormous relief of knowing there was a name for the syndrome I'd been enmeshed with in my early life and so many later relationships...and in fighting to be honest with myself about my own Nspots, now it's less interesting to me.
Labeling seems to evoke a kind of bloodlust. Aha! You're an ___! (Or, more accurately, I'm calling you an ____!)
I think the label helps most to serve as a Red light, as I encounter and get to know people. What's changed is I'm now more apt to spot the Yellow light. I remember why I have brakes. It saves collisions and ambulance calls.
CB,
I love the way you ask questions, and more, the clarity of your mind, your intention. I don't know how you have come through what you have come through with a mind so clear and intentions so clean. I admire you very much.
(And if you're in a mood to do a thread with more updates on Life in the City, I'd love to hear it.)
hugs both,
Hops
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Someone told me in another thread that I was in a dance with my mom and it would be better to be out of the situation. I agree with this. Why I want her to know that she is an N so that I have some verification that I am not the one with the problem. But I guess this is a futile attempt. I know that this N will never admit that she is the one with the problem....so maybe if I present it as her behavior makes me have a problem and if she could change her behavior I wouldn't have a problem anymore? Or I could just get a new job and be free from her!! No dance needed.
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No more dancing...smart thinking, OC.
You can't change her because she can't change herself.
You can only change your reactions.
You can only do that.
love
Hops
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Baked or broiled??? Love it, Storm!!!!!
A while back I got my mom to take the personality test as I told you all. She said she scored as an N and Schizophrenic. She said, "Please don't send me any more tests." I don't think she would ever believe it. She thinks she is smarter and better than others. It didn't help that the doc prescribed her an AD and told her he didn't think she needed therapy - that she was just suffering from lack of chemicals...
No, Kelly, I think you have to change your reaction, not your Mom's beliefs. She will never believe it... or if she did, she would think that "Smart people are all N's."
Love, Beth
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Yes I have talked at length to ex and he has seen a psychiatrist.
She said the same as someone else here- labels aren't helpful.
But they have been a bit because soemtimes now I just say 'that's lack of empathy' or 'that's a real narcissistic reaction' and ex gets it and son has picked up the vocabulary of emotions if not the details.
Ex says he doesn't want to change deep down though, so it's now his choice to live this limited life; I draw the line where it affects us as often as is possible.
He was pretty unpleasant when he first read about it all btw, like most people denial was first reaction to shocking news, then anger.