Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Overcomer on May 28, 2007, 05:06:24 PM
-
Well my mom and I need to have a conversation and I have been putting it off. I told her I wanted my dad to be there to protect me. She can not understand why I think I need protection. When I talked to my dad he said we were acting like children and need to get over this-so I called her and we went round and round. She said that things are not so until I speak it into existence-I told her to do that would make me God. She blamed me for her problem with the bookkeeper because I told her so
-
I said I thought she had a problem with her and she does but it was not until I spoke it! She also has a rationale for everything and tells me it is my perspective that is wrong. I told her that I would not be the scapegoat and that she needed to take her part of the responsibility in our dysfunction-she wants me to get help! I guess I should not be suprised by her take on things and I on longer care if she owns her part because I know she will not!
-
Overcomer,
Are you SURE your mother isn't MY mother?
Janet
-
yes so many of our moms are the same and I think the hardest part is not being able to talk sense into them-I cried during the conversation but it has not ruined my day. I am ok with her outside of work because I set boundaries long ago. She is a crazy maker plain and simple. I called my dad and said to him WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO MOM - and he said recognition. When I told my mom that it shut her up for a minute-then said just because my dad and I thought the same
-
thing Does not make it true.
-
Oh and the part about enabling? My poor dad was emasculated long ago and simply has given up on trying to be her equal-she wins.
-
ami or anyone
-
What are you asking, Kelly Ami
-
Oh I just need input-lately I feel like I have been posting and I get a couple responses but what I need is some dialogue. I have talked about a new job and a dream and now this and no one seems to be there and I just need some support! Help!
-
Kel,
I was thinking of how joyful a plus-size store job could be, especially if you approach it as a way to help women really love and feel good about themselves including their bodies just as they are.
I was also thinking it might be an amazing experience. And glad for you and hoping you hear good news soon.
I think you're going to heal in many ways when you step out of the battle for your mother's recognition.
hugs
Hops
-
OC
Are you wanting to change your N mother? It won't happen.
The best way for you to survive is to have no contact with her.
She will drain your soul and heave the rest of you to the dogs.
(I want contact with my daughter and I am getting some, but I am not happy about this particular topic when a child is "desping his/her mother--it hits so close to home for me that I begin to think I am an N and I know I'm not, but have been reading about N-ism again re me!!!! and now I don't care if she contacts me!!!!)
Are you working iin the business or away from it now?
Are you living separately and far enopugh away from her?
You will just have to "fiind that you are busy" a lot and cannot talk.
No contact!
and then the healing begins!
Love
Izzy
EDIT!! oh yes I remember the new job now!
-
Her approval-which I will never get. I am weird about the new job-somehow I am feeling obligated because we just signed to be a franchise store-and she says she wants to back off but I cannot trust her-so the saga continues..
-
OC
You will never have her approval-- all you require is to approve of yourself, then treat her as a stranger, polite but indifferent.
Izzy
-
Ami
There are a number of posts from women who hate their N mothers and want to cut loose.
I am a mother from whom my daughter cut loose 23 years ago when she met an N and married him while too young.
I am looking for answers as to how we can heel the gap of his keeping her in isolation etc and away from me.
She has admitted that she felt terrible, but felt she must support her husband, as she chose to marry him. She feels shame. She telephoned to ask for forgiveness but there is still a wall between us.
I think it might be shame--but I moved 2000 miles away from her
If she wants nothing to do with me, I am sensitive enough that all these other "daughters" who want to end it with their mothers is my life except for the N-ism for me, but the stories are difficult to read.
I feel when I say dump the N=mother, that I am saying my daughter was right and it was all wrong because of her N, but I wonder if she took on N qualities after 10 years with him--
I hope you understand. I've said all this before!
love
Izzy
-
I am sensitive enough that all these other "daughters" who want to end it with their mothers is my life except for the N-ism for me, but the stories are difficult to read.
I understand, Izzy. I have been partially estranged with my D, off and on, in the last year, and things are still not normal and connected yet. It has been agonizing.
So I know how it feels to be the parent, having the child withdraw.
When we share our stories as children of Ns, I identify. When we share stories of divorcing N parents, even though I understand that in all these cases, it's so necessary and right...I occasionally think, is my D divorcing me?
Just as a mother who's getting chewed up a bit. My D's distancing is nowhere near yours, so I can imagine it's even more of a challenge for you.
It's good that you said so. And I'm glad everyone's doing what they need to do to take care of themselves, including distancing from mothers when they must. And boy do I believe they must. There are defective mother animals described here...
Sometimes the loathing-of-Nmothers stories, touch on my sore places. And...there's a part of me that wrestles with my D's own Ntendencies. A tough one.
It's like, the inner child is always innocent, most of us here have been harmed by Nparents. But then, children of Ns or grandchildren of Ns can grow up with a lot of N entitlement and ruthlessness themselves. And they can mete it out with the best (worst) of 'em.
love
Hops
-
Well Hops
Thank you
I am glad you understand ansd I have just come to the realization that my daughter, too, had N tendencies.
She is controlling and manipulating my life. I must do as she says or there will be no contact.
There is a touch of criticism and anger in her emails, and it haas been sinking in slowly.
She lived wthl an N for 10 years and still has contact because of the children
She told me she has become someoone else from her younger life and moved on. ?????????
Some people adopt the role of a professional victim. In doing so, they become self-centred, devoid of empathy and, abusive and exploitative. In other words, they become narcissists.
from my making of a Narcissist post.
and I assumed more mentally healthy than I--
I see the therapist this afternoon and will run this by her.
Love
Izzy
-
Hi Iz,
I think it's easy to read the stories here and start to internalize them. Actually, I don't think that N's do that much, but co-N's do it a lot! So, I can see why you read the mother/daughter stories, connect that your daughter is withdrawing from you, and then start connecting dots that you are, therefore, an N. We are just so sensitive and hard on ourselves.
People disconnect for a lot of reasons--not just because of N parents. N's disconnect when they don't get the supply they want. Teens disconnect as a normal part of their development--some disconnect quite a bit.
I just hope that you arent connecting dots that arent really there. You have so much else you are processing right now--beating yourself up over someone else's mother/daughter story seems like more than you should have to deal with. Be gentle with yourself and let your D do what she needs to do right now. You are making incredible progress with your T--let her help you get to the bottom of your feelings before you draw any bigger conclusions that necessary.
Love ya, Iz,
CB
-
OC – I haven’t posted because you seem to have it so together where your momster is concerned, where, although I am doing better, I am still in a bit of denial with mine.
I don’t know that I have any good advice regarding the job. Recently you seemed to be in a really good place with respect to your NM – it sounded as though you found a pretty impressive balance where you could stop the cascade of negative emotions that occurred when she acted up.
Ten or 20 years from now, do you have any idea where you would like to be? If she is 70 now, it seems likely your NM won’t be actively involved in the business then. Will you be in charge after she is no longer working there? I ask, because it seems to me that you know that business inside out and may be able to turn it into what you want and run with it – once you are handed the reins. If you go to another store, will you be able to take it as far as you might at your NM's company? I don’t know enough of the details – but, if it were me, I would think about where I wanted to be in 10 or 20 years.
That being said, I would also have to take into consideration the wear and tear of dealing with an Nmom. Can you put up with her nonsense a little while longer – or has it become too much? If you can put up with the antics, I would think staying where you are might put you in a better position in 20 years. However, if the stress would take too much of a toll, I say take the other job and run.
Not much help – huh?
From a business perspective, can you get an offer on the table from the other job, and use that to maneuver to where you want to be in your mother’s business? This is done all the time in corporate world that I work in – you get another job offer and your current employer counters with a similar or better offer.
I don’t know your momster. How would she respond if you were to say to her, I have a job offer from xxx. They have offered me more money and more responsibility. I really want to stay here as I know the job and everyone here. For me to stay, this is what it would require – and then outline it and get it in writing (such as a guarantee that when she retires that you will take over in charge of the company – not someone else, she can’t liquidate without giving you a percentage of the proceeds, autonomy on certain decisions, and so on). I do have to add a caveat; it might be very difficult to get an N to stick to the agreement. Getting it in writing might help, but if she is anything like my genetic donors, she might try to slip through that as well.
And BTW – my father was really, really toxic – when he was alive, I ALWAYS wanted a third party there (absolutely dreaded it when a third party wasn’t there). With my mother, before I went NC, I decided that either a third party would be present during all conversations or the conversation would be recorded.
Not much help, sorry.
Peace
-
No that is great help. I can continue to act as if what she says is true and assume she will let go-but if she does not I can call her on it with another offer. But you arm so right-to get her to do what she agrees to is iffy. I THINK I WILL START RECORDING CONVERSATIONS.
-
As far as recording conversations (I am not sure where you are located), you might need to check the laws. In some states, it is illegal to record a conversation unless the other person is aware that you are recording - or it may be that it is inadmissible from a legal perspective - not sure.
In my case, I was intending to tell her point blank that I was recording and why (Note that if she had been a more violent N - I would NOT have done this. Ultimately, it wasn't for a legal reason - it was because of the lies, the gaslighting, etc., and the nastiness (I wanted proof if I needed it, and at the least, a sanity check for me :roll:).
-
That is so right-I even told her that I wanted to take notes or record it so when she tries to change reality. She is impossible but I do not take her stuff like I used to-but she is a frustrating women!
-
Need to have proof so I do not have the rug pulled out from under me!
-
I taped my daughter and me once just brcasue I knew I wouldn't remember everything she said.
She didn't want me to sue her N.
-
Hey Iz,
You are doing such hard work to process the feelings you have about the past with your D.
I just want to pipe up to say not to totally leave the present...the present gift, of communicating now, this miracle.
Enjoy loving her in the present, just remember you're both also in the present, and in some way, together...
love
Hops
-
Oh wyou are SO right! She will simply say she did not mean it-or that that was not her intent-with that in mind it makes me want to run as fast as I can!
-
Wait...wait...Ami....Izz....
are we so sure?
Izz? Are you racing forward to label her an N so you don't risk the pain of it not working?
I don't understand.
I think you need to hold the space for what's happening between you...
hold it with courage and patience, and don't panic, and don't leap to the label.
I wouldn't encourage that unless it's completely necessary and you don't really know that yet, do you?
love
Hops
-
hi hops
Today with Therapist she agreed that my daughter is contolling and manipulating the email situation.
So many things came to me on the weekend or whenever. I had to write them down for the Therpaist.
Daughter and I have differnt memories of incidents, so I will allow her to keep hers and I will keep mine.
She accused me of being jealous of a person. No way! is my stance.
So I asked her why she thought that----- answer to come.
My email said only about my feelings, in statements, and I didn't assume as she did!
Don't know until I have a reply=---but she will have to run it past her friend first for Insight on my statements.
I hate this! She has set up a Double-standard, and an invisible line that I cannot cross
Iz
-
Iz,
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
If you and your daughter haven't taken this test, it might shed some light on your personalities. In it there are no good or bad personalities, just different ones. I'm something of an odd bird, but studying the personalities has given me an extra layer of understanding about my family, friends and myself. Now, I can just about peg (I mean that nicely) their personality type whether they take the test or not. Our family did this test one holiday gathering for fun. It was a nice activity where each one got involved, and we learned something about the other.
tt
-
Thanks TT
I just took the test, made a copy of it and sent it and the Link to daughter.
We shall see what we shall see!!
The pegging (I understand) is great! sure would be fun in a group!
xx
Izzzy