Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Green on May 29, 2007, 01:24:01 PM
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Hi,
I just registered and am glad to be here. I have been reading for awhile and decided today's the day to jump in. Thanks to you all for posting here. it has been really helpful to me, even just to feel not alone.
In therapy a couple years ago I realized my mom is N (more of the neglectful type than the smothering type). At first I thought my dad was one, too, but then I realized that he is an enabeler/co-dependent and that he loved me as much as his broken puppet-self could manage. That realization was a huge gift. My Nmom dumped him and he remarried another N-ish woman. One of my biggest challenges is to sort out who in my life is N, and who just has N-ish traits (I think just about everyone does to a certain degree). Seeing things in shades of grey is a big challenge, as Nmom raised me to evaluate people and events in black and white.
These days my emotions are all over the place, but at least I know what emotions are now. That is real progress for me - being able to look internally. Some days I grieve my lost childhood and lost pretend family of origin. Other days I am so angry. On good days I feel sort of calm and on those day I do my hardest work- to look at what bad habits I picked up from my N.
Having been raised by an N, I know I learned some dysfunctional behaviors that I want to recognize and unlearn. Here are two examples:
1) The biggest one is recognizing that I sometimes act like a martyr or victim. Growing up, I was not allowed to have my own feelings, so i learned not to bother expressing them. So now as an adult, instead of setting boundaries, and saying what I want and don't want, I sometimes stomp around, huffing and resentful. My Nmom did that all the time and it is so manipulative. It's disgusting and I want to stop doing that.
2) My mom looks at people in very black and white terms. Her love is conditional. Either someone treats her like gold, serving as narcissistic supply and she thinks they are great. Or they treat her as less than royalty, and she dumps them and moves on. I learned that friendships are absolutely temporary. So now, feeling generally unlovable to begin with, do not invest enough time in maintaing friendships because I feel unworthy. My reasons for letting friendships go are very different from my Nmom's but the effect is similar - few or no friends.
Feeling very exposed here, but that's the best way to learn, I guess.
So my question is this: what other behaviors do we pick up from our Ns? Are there any other biggies to watch out for and work on?
with gratitude,
Green
(because I like the color)
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This is a terrific first post, Green! Welcome!
I think you've nailed two of the biggies.
The martyr-vampire act is a major N indicator -- but, it's a major temptation to people who've been N-damaged, too. It's just like malingering, except that malingering is in the body, and this is in the soul. If you learn in your family that the sick child - or parent!!! - receives the lion's share of care and is excused from responsibility, you grow up using sickness to avoid responsibility and manipulate people into giving you care. You learn to malinger. Same difference with martyrdom.
Both are unhealthy - martyrdom and malingering - and both can be hard addictions to break, but if we have them, we must break free. [Edit in: a lot of codependents are 'martyrs', and living with an N doth definitely a codependent make.]
The black and white stuff is 'splitting'.
This one is tricky, because it can be dangerous to see Ns and other toxic folks in shades of gray, although it's tempting and we're told it's healthy... emotionally healthy people are definitely full of grayscale and texture and tone, but in dealings with really toxic people, it can be protective to apply a more black-and-white standard. I think this for 3 reasons:
(1) most toxic people are geniuses at messing with your head, and will take advantage of any leverage you give them, so it's best not to give them any until you have at least a brown belt in ideNtifying and dealiNg with Ns.
(2) most Ns see the world as black and white because they have made themselves black and white; they try to take into themselves all the good qualities from anyone they contact, and push onto those others all their own negative qualities.
(3) toxicity itself is pretty black and white, in a lot of cases. Nobody sane is going to go around choosing to eat food that they know is contaminated with hopefully sub-lethal doses of botulinum toxin or E. Coli 0157:H merely because 'we shouldn't think of food poisoning in black and white terms - after all, there are some pathogenic bacteria in everyone's digestive tracts'. That's nuts. And we can tell it's nuts when we think that way about food poisoning, but we don't see it as nuts when we think that way about soul poisoning. We'll go back and back to people who abuse us, misuse us, treat us like things... because we shouldn't think in black and white terms; after all, there are flaws in everyone. Yes, there are; but some people are profoundly, incapacitatingly flawed, and others are not.
Now... I haven't answered your question yet, so I will.
This is going to be a bit iconoclastic.
I think the single biggest thing that we get infected with, by Ns, is the need to 'look perfect' regardless of reality.
An inability to admit to our flaws, especially when confronted about them.
A super-defensiveness.
There are plenty of reasons for this; we've spent our lives around people whose primary form of recreation involved tearing us down, so any form of critical input is likely to feel like a kick in the gut.
But - if we become so defensive and self-justifying that we can't hear or accept legitimate input when we're not on the right track, we're in danger of becoming indistinguishable from the Ns we so condemn, in some very important areas.
Denial of our own N-spots, I think, is how some others here have described it. It's really unfortunate, because in my opinion it's the single most significant obstacle to genuine healing.
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Thanks, Stormchild, for your thoughtful reply and for introducing me to the term "malingering". I had not heard it before and I imagine it might be related to hypochondria (my mom does this) and the syndrome (the name escapes me) where a parent makes her child sick just to get the doctors' attention (my mom didn't do this exactly, but close).
As for black/white (splitting) thinking, i had never thought of it as having potential to help us, as in categorizing something dangerous (like ecoli or Ns) and realizing in no uncertain terms we should avoid it. Good point. Ironic that it is actually a very grey way to interpret black/white! :) I guess it is a good exercise to look at what I think of as weaknesses and try to see the potential as strength - like learning that my nearly crippling empathy also gives me the ability to read people well sometimes.
As for self-defensiveness - my first reaction was "Hey! I'm not defensive!" :) Guess that's not true. I must be defensive on some level. But if someone tells me "you are crap. this is all your fault" usually, my first instinct is to agree, "yes I am crap, this must be all my fault". But I think my defensiveness must kick in later and takes the form of resentment. Thanks for the opportunity to think about this.
Green
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Green,
Welcome,
What I learned from my Nparents was that I must always try and please others at whatever cost to myself. I must be passive, try and appease angry people, love those who do not care for me and the more they abuse me the more I must love them UGH. Never trust my own instincts, always doubt the warning flags I could go on and on.
In my own healing a significant part for me is taking care of myself and I struggle with this all the time. I have a core desire to abandon myself and my dreams in the hope of being "loved" by the N. What a waste of time and energy. At some level I am trying to reparent myself in a loving way and KNOW that I am worth the respect and care that I deserve. Considering I am one of the best caretakers in the world caring for myself is the most difficult challenge in front of me.
Staying connected to this board reminds me daily of the need to self care. Also I am convinced it is the only way for me to get out of the cycle of abuse.
Axa
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Welcome, Green,
Thanks for putting this so well. It rings true for me...
One of my biggest challenges is to sort out who in my life is N, and who just has N-ish traits (I think just about everyone does to a certain degree). Seeing things in shades of grey is a big challenge, as Nmom raised me to evaluate people and events in black and white.
I'm looking forward to your posts, and learning from you.
best,
Hops
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Hi Green
>>>These days my emotions are all over the place, but at least I know what emotions are now. That is real progress for me - being able to look internally. Some days I grieve my lost childhood and lost pretend family of origin. Other days I am so angry. <<<
I can relate to that, somewhere I have a poem about this, I'll dig it up and share it :-)
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Thank you all for replying! As if I can predict the future (another bad habit picked up from Nmom) I predicted the worst, that I would drift off into the internet ether, unnoticed. I need to find a balance between wanting to be noticed/heard and needing too much outside validation. It is a tricky balance. Another one to add to the long list of stuff I need to work on.
Axa, I identify with all of what you said. I am at once comforted that you feel the same way, and sad that you have to endure this, too. The reparenting stuff is especially tricky. It is probably no coincidence that the best caretakers have a hard time caring for themselves. The best methods for reparenting myself lately have been 1) to tell myself "you're going to be OK" (something I never heard as a kid), and 2) Flossing my teeth :D. I have no idea why flossing makes me feel worthwhile, but hey- I'll take what I can get!
Hops, I suspect this black/white thinking stuff is pretty common in dysfunctional families. Such a hard mindset to break out of. The more I recognize it, the more progress I make in changing how I think about it.
Besee, Yes, I had a similar experience when I found out about N. I was terrified that I might be one or become one if I started trying to exist. I think that in watching my Nmom , I simultaneously learned that I should not exist and that if I did try to have a self, that it would be disgusting, that having a self is a terribly selfish thing to do. Ugh.
Poetprose,
i would love to see your poem if you find it. I really enjoy reading poetry because it can express so much powerful subtlety that other forms of communication seem to get bogged down in. I do not write it, but I like to read.
Here is one of my favorite poems (by Anna Akhamatova). It reminds me of Ns.
"He loved three things in life:
Evensong, white peacocks
And old maps of America.
He hated it when children cried,
He hated tea with raspberry jam
And women's hysterics.
...And I was his wife."
Green
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Great poem, Green. Thanks for sharing it.
another thought about B & W...I think it's everywhere in the culture. For example:
You're with us or with the terrorists.
You're good or you're evil.
You're left or right.
You're saved or damned.
You're pretty or not.
You're young or not.
etc
Hops
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Yes, Hops, it is everywhere, isn't it?! Ns must just love that. It just occurred to me that Ns have a way to simplify things even further:
With Ns, you're damned if you do and damned if don't! :?
(hope my "French" doesn't offend, but it just doesn't sound the same when you substitute with "darned")
Green
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Damn right, Mlle Verte.
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((((((((((((((((((((Green))))))))))))))))))))
You sound so wise!!!!!!!!!
I catch a ton of these behaviors in myself and I am working on purging them :) What a mess ourr heads can be!!!
I realized a new one lately... that when I meet a potential friend, I always place the person "above" or "below" me. Not even sure how my twisted head determines that... but I am working on getting rid of that one.
I could fill a book with things like that. Many of them I have changed already. My version of therapy has bee AA and I have been able to open my eyes to what I really acted like before...
I am often very superior about how I am at work (much of it is true... I am a good and efficient worker and often know best what to do in a situation)... but I also get an attitude that I am so much smarter than the other person.
I used to do things to "show" my parents how much better I was than them (I copied this from them) and now catch myself dropping info to people to let them know things about me... I am catching that before I do it now.
Like you. Green, my mom is the N and dad is a decent sort who is warped by her and his reactions to her. He loved me too and protected me from what she might have done to me, I fully believe.
So glad you are here. I will try to think up some more of these.
Love, Beth
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Wow, Green, just went back and read through the whole thread and see that we are truly related. My mother also used me to visit the doctor. Because of that, I dread any visit to the doctor. And, like Storm, I never want to bee seen as less than "perfect" and because of that I grew up hiding a lot of stuff I did. Also, my mother is a hypochondriac now... especially when it suits her.
Love, Beth
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Wow, ((((((Beth)))))).
There are a lot of similarities here, aren't there?!
I am afraid of hospital settings now. I get dizzy and almost pass out - maybe just forgetting to breath. I have just realized lately that there must be a connection to what my mom did to me as a kid.
I hear what you mean about evaluating coworkers in relation to yourself. It is wonderful to be able to recognize and pat your self on the back for being smart, efficient, capable, etc., but there is a fine line in there somewhere.
This was my first though when i read that part of your message. My mom instilled/tried to instill a sense of snobbery in my brother and me, particularly about intellectual, cultural, and career stuff. It really took with my brother. He and my mom cut down everyone they meet and evaluate them by what they think they are"good for". Are they smart enough to discuss politics with? are they cultured enough to discuss famous authors or philosophical ideas? My mom usually decides, no, they are not, and that spares her from actually having to come up with her own ideas.
In the past I think I viewed myself as generally worthless, and therefore "below" everybody on the planet, but I am working on changing my perspective. I wonder if somewhere along the way, I might discover that I have actually taken on my mom's snobbish, evaluating behaviors on some level. I think it is unlikely that I escaped it entirely. Something to watch out for. Thanks for bringing that up.
And thanks to everyone for sharing your vulnerable sides. I didn't think about it too much when I first started this thread, but I now realize that I was asking for a lot from total strangers. "Hi, my name is Green. Now, please tell me your weaknesses and your deepest, darkest N-Spots!" I hope I didn't freak anybody out or ask too much. I am amazed at everyone's bravery in allowing themselves to be so vulnerable.
Love, Green
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Ami,
Oh I hated the dentist when I was younger. I hated the drill the smell and the sounds. I would get hysterical and once a dentist kept my mother out and slapped my face when I started to cry. I jumped the chair knocked over something and went running with half my tooth in my mouth. I remember my mom going ape on him. Then I was taken to a dentist where they put me to sleep and completed all the work in one day. As I got older I braved it out and went back to the regular dentist. Now I love the dentist but hate the doctors. I guess because I am getting older I worry they are going to find something or look for something. Funny dentist when I was younger now doctors when I'm older. Jeez! I guess there is always something. Changes!
Love
Deb
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Ami,
I don't really know how. It just happened. Once I faced my fear I saw it was not as bad as I thought and I look forward to dental appointments. But i do I really enjoy the dentist now.
Deb
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One more Doctor note... My mother dragged me in all the time so that they would find unique things in me... She LOVED it if a doc or dentist said he had never seen whatever I "had" before...
My sister was also used, but seemed to enjoy the attention. According to her and my mother, she had Lyme's disease, Toxic Shock, and a few other amazingly rare diseases. Huh???? Isn't that like winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning at the same time?????
So I think my dread of the doctor is that I will be "singled out" and, especially, called on my "bad behaviors." I feel like they can see through me and know that I am "being bad." Not sure where that comes from.
Also, hops, I do believe our society has become very polarized. Everyone wants to prove the other wrong. It is very sad that we feel the need to be this way. I keep thinking about this and wondering if it was this way 20, 30, 40 years ago and I just didn't know it or don't see it. I am disgusted with how our country's visible upper eschalon behaves - on both sides (pun intended lol).
Kisses to all,
Beth
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Hi Beth,
I've heard the phrase "coarsening" of our culture. It fits for me, and makes me sad.
I think of ancient Rome's descent into debauchery, complete decadence, indifferent crowds cheering the suffering of gladiators and human prey thrown in with lions. (I don't believe homosexuality is a debauched state, though.) For me, corporate greed and plunder and governmental lying and trumped-up pretexts for wars are decadent..
Anyway, didn't mean to get political, was meaning to chime in about the sort of horror I feel at the way people treat each other these days, magnified and worsened by the media.
And...your Mom sounds vaguely Munchausen's by proxy-ish, in the way she used you for doctors' attention. Yuggh. Sorry that happened to you...
On a happier note, how is sweet Henry?????? How are you yourself since the Big Move?
hugs
Hops
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Hi All,
I woke up at 3am thinking about this thread, so I guess that means there is something big for me to learn here. Bring it on!
Bean, thanks for adding to the list. When you put it so succinctly, it becomes all the more obvious to me how similar my Nmom and I are in some of our emotions (anxiety, negativity, rage). this is scary. But unlike her, I am working on accepting those emotions and choosing different behaviors .
Debkor, that sounds like a horrific experience at the dentist, but brava to you for overcoming it! Is it possible that you like visiting the dentist now because it is a reminder of your accomplishment, like maybe you feel strong and proud? Maybe I am way off, but that was my first thought.
Beth, I agree with Hops that what your mom did to you sounds "Munchausen's by proxy-ish". I am sorry that you had to endure that. My mom did something similar to me, too. I had a minor heart condition when I was a kid (now cleared up for the most part), and boy did she love to drag me to all those appointments and play the part of the doting mother. But behind closed doors, when no one was looking, and I was sick with flu or something, she really didn't give a toot. your description of fearing they would single you out and call you on "bad behaviors" is familiar, too. I remember in high school, the dr. asking me if I was a virgin (so he could decide if i needed a gyn exam as part of my physical). I was, and he told my mom. She was gloating for some reason (not pride, but gloating). I was so ashamed, but I don't really understand why. My mom was promiscuous, and I was a virgin, why should I be ashamed?
Ami, I think a new thread on medical fears is a great idea. I bet there are a lot of relevant stories out there.You are certainly not alone or weird, but I know how strange and lonely this process can feel! What you describe in medical situations sound very similar to my experiences, which I think of as anxiety attacks. you say you think you might be compensating - for what? This sounds interesting. also, the phobias as both a wish and a fear is fascinating and makes total sense to me!!! thanks for sharing it. I am not sure how it ties into my experiences, except, that I had similar feelings, wanting my mom to genuinely show me love and nurturing, but knowing deep down that I would not get it. So painful.
Gotta run quickly now, but more later,
Green
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Beth, I agree with Hops that what your mom did to you sounds "Munchausen's by proxy-ish". I am sorry that you had to endure that. My mom did something similar to me, too. I had a minor heart condition when I was a kid (now cleared up for the most part), and boy did she love to drag me to all those appointments and play the part of the doting mother. But behind closed doors, when no one was looking, and I was sick with flu or something, she really didn't give a toot. your description of fearing they would single you out and call you on "bad behaviors" is familiar, too. I remember in high school, the dr. asking me if I was a virgin (so he could decide if i needed a gyn exam as part of my physical). I was, and he told my mom. She was gloating for some reason (not pride, but gloating). I was so ashamed, but I don't really understand why. My mom was promiscuous, and I was a virgin, why should I be ashamed?
Oh, sweetie, she was gloating because she thought, in her sad warped little mind, that she'd won the Attractiveness Contest, because she had 'scored' at that age, and you hadn't.
Yes, they really are that sick. The notion that you would prize your virginity would never even have occurred to her. It was about a contest, about her 'beating' you at some competition that only existed in her own head.
I'm sorry you went through this...
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Green,
Loved your piece about flossing your teeth. My taking care of myself is getting into the bath rather than taking a quick shower. I moved house recently and bought myself a big old antique bath with claw legs. It looks beautiful but I struggle with getting into it, like it is too good for me. When I do manage to fill the tub and get in the longest time I have managed to spend in there is 10 mins which seemed like an eternity........ practising staying in the bath is one of my big struggles.
As for the dentist. When I grew up the only time you went to the dentist was when you were beside yourself with pain. I loved going to the dentist. I felt as if someone acknowledged my pain and tried to help me. Funny how I always have a soft spot for dentists! The irony was that he would give me a lecture on cleaning my teeth regularily but the problem was that my parents never bought us toothbrushes.......... they were an extravagance but they could afford to socialise, go for drinks, etc. Our teeth were just about as important as we kids were!
axa
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Oops, Beth.
I want to apologize...just realized that I did some political venting in my post to you that really was not tactful as all because your dear H is in the military.
Please forgive me, I completely forgot that for the moment. Good grief (thwacks head...)
I hope he and you and Henry and well and happy and adjusting to a new base and new life...
How is it going?
love
Hops
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Hi Green,
So my question is this: what other behaviors do we pick up from our Ns? Are there any other biggies to watch out for and work on?
There's lots to be aware of and prepare for when in 'relationship' with an N. It will unfold for you as you go through the process of recovery. In the meantime, stay faithful to rebuilding, re-mothering yourself. The re-mothering is very important. Complex, but important.
tt
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Loved your piece about flossing your teeth. My taking care of myself is getting into the bath rather than taking a quick shower. I moved house recently and bought myself a big old antique bath with claw legs. It looks beautiful but I struggle with getting into it, like it is too good for me. When I do manage to fill the tub and get in the longest time I have managed to spend in there is 10 mins which seemed like an eternity........ practising staying in the bath is one of my big struggles.
I had to respond to this,Axa, because I always feel like I have to punish myself or somehow take away joy from myself. I have so many things to enjoy that are like your bath tub. I feel like I am violating something"primal" by enjoying myself.
I got this GREAT insight in Vaknin's book . We were"infected" with N'ism and other mental illness.We were hollowed out inside and filled up with all these mentally "crazy" ideas. They are not ours at all. The problem for us is separating them from our essential self.
I have starting digging. I,personally, love this concept. It makes me realize that although I may "feel" like I have these things, they are not a part of the 'real" me. Now, digging out the real me is the trick. Love-"the digger" Ami
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Oooo yes, both Chocolat and Babette's Feast!!
Such wonderful, anti-Puritanical visions.
bliss...(coming from someone who "beeps" rather than cooks, tho :?)
Hops
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[Do you know what drop-kicked me out of that mindset?
CB,
Could you describe specifically what mind set you meant(above) ?
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I learned that I don't really matter. My wants, dreams and desires are nothing but pipedreams. I learned that I shouldn't dream big because that's a fantasy world, and I need to live in reality.
I learned that I should always try to please other people, even when what they want doesn't feel right to me.
I learned that I should never talk about how I feel because my feelings mean nothing.
I learned that the only appropriate feelings I can have are guilt, shame and negativity.
I learned that my happiness means absolutely nothing, because my Nmom doesn't want me to be happy.
And most importantly, I learned that people aren't to be trusted, that the only person I can rely on is myself, because I'm the only one who cares about me.
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Hi Tayana,
Glad you're posting...that's a painful list to read, but good you're writing it.
I hope some of those false beliefs are starting to shift...
Hops
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Thanks Hops,
Some of them maybe. Not all, especially that last one.
T
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So my question is this: what other behaviors do we pick up from our Ns? Are there any other biggies to watch out for and work on?
Finding it easier and more meaningful to nurture others than self nurture is a biggie for me, as well as:
Setting goals that are too difficult to accomplish, or expecting them to be accomplished sooner than is reasonable.
Procrastinating and under-performing to avoid criticism
Not asking for help when I need it.
I have a lot of difficulty with putting up protective boundaries and defending myself from bullies.
(theres probably a lot more, but that will do for now:)
Some GOOD behaviours I've learned from being around N's include:
Being tuned into `under the radar' type of aggression. Sometimes that can really help with self=protection, or can result in helping another person.
I think I am sensitive, understanding, and compassionate because of my experiences.
(there are probably more but i am a bit uncomfortable with this:)
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CB
Babettes Feast has to be one my all time favourite films. When things got really bad with XN and |I I watched Dogville and boy did I associate with the Nicole Kidman character.
I have great difficulty seperating myself from those negative messages which were beat into me. In my head I am clear about what I deserve and my good points but the child in me struggles all the time. When there were "good"times with xn I would not allow myself enjoy them as I have such a strong message around do not get complacent because it will all end in disaster anyway. I feel like I have withdrawn from the world these days. The only place that feels safe to me is alone at home. I know this is my pattern of isolation but feel quite stuck at the moment. I get so tired and bored with the struggle.
axa
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Axa,
I havent seen Dogville. I'll have to put it on my list.
I always loved hearing about you in your house, Axa, puttering around with paints and such and sounding so peaceful and whole. It's okay to be alone--to want to be alone--to replenish and recreate.
I think that part of taking care of ourselves is coming to grips with our personality types. The world really values extrovert-ish, life of the party types. But we stay-at-homers are a valuable part of society too. We need to not buy into the mindset that we are doing something negative.
Can you let yourself be safe in your home for a bit, Axa? I can feel a need for that looming on the horizon. I don't enjoy spending 8 hours a day at work being "on". I would much rather be tucked into a corner of some research library, doing something "boring"!
Love
CB
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Hello fellow travelers.
I am quite behind on my reading. Been busy arguing and making up with H who is not N but has some dysfunctional behaviors like me). Also been dealing with some health issues that I might start a thread on - Ami suggested a thread on medical fears earlier and I like her idea a lot.
Anyway, thanks to you all for writing more about this topic. Since I am so behind, I will just respond with a few quick thoughts.:
Stormchild, thanks for your insight on my moms's reaction to my high school virginity. The competition in her head idea is spot on - I had never though of it that way before.
Axa- no toothbrushes for you!?! that's horribly neglectful (((Axa))) My mom had plenty of time to sunbathe herself but she never brushed my hair or trimmed my nails. I was pretty ratty looking. Baths are lovely but I never take the time. sounds good though.
Axa and CB123, I agree - alone time is safe, not having to be on all the time. I find being around other people very draining. I am most relaxed (but not necessarily happiest) when I am alone. I wonder if there is a relationship between ACONs and introversion?
CB123 and Hops - I love those movies, too. CB, I am also a foodie and find food and food preparation very self-healing, independently creative, and sensual - puts me in touch with the outside word somehow. I love cooking with my little girl.
Teartracks, Re-mothering is huge for me, but something I forget to do. I find myself drawn to child-like things sometimes, like fairs, zoos, playgrounds. I find myself cuddling with my daughter's stuffed animals - when I was a kid, I think my stuffed animals were the only things that loved me. they were the only things that I could love back.
Tayana, I think trust is at the very core of many of my fears and I find it very hard, too. If my Nmom lost trust in her N supply, she always abandoned them, and I think I learned some of that from her. I did not learn who I can trust and not trust, and I did not learn that some people can be generally trusted even if they don't appear 100% trustworthy at them moment (like trusting a non-N loved-one to treat you well in the long run, even if you are fighting with them at the moment).
Bella_French, Thanks for adding to the list, especially for pointing out the silver lining to the craziness we learned. Even though my "education" in feelings came from a terrible place, being compassionate and empathic can really have its benefits sometimes and can be a really powerful tool for understanding people.
Green
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Ooops! Forgot to mention, AMI, that I like your analogy about digging out our real selves and sorting out all the Ncraziness from what is our "essential self". There have been many times when I have felt hollowed out, like an empty shell, but that never takes me to good places. Seeing my true self as buried, just waiting for discovery seems more positive and gives me hope.
Green
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There was a time in my life when I hated being alone. It was just too scary for me. Part of that may have been because I come from a large family where there was always tension and negative excitement. The emptyness of aloneness was too much to bear. I am quite content in many ways when alone but know that I have a pattern of isolation which many people here have spoken about. Its all about balance I guess and I am working on finding that.
CB
Still pottering around the cottage, lots of planting and gardening, have bad soil though so working on improving that. Drawing tonight, busy at work today and have a lot of prep for work tomorrow so that is keeping me focused.
You know what guys, I'm doing ok today
hugs and love to all,
axa
CB would love if you saw Dogville and let me know what you think x
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Green,
I love to be alone. I'm around people all the time, and I find them very draining and tiring. I like it when it's quiet, and when I can concentrate on me, think about things, be creative. I would love to have a day at home alone, just to do some work or just make jewelry or knit or write or read a book.
My Nmom never understood this, never understood that I needed time to myself, and so she would intrude, and still does, on my privacy.
I also loved your comment about stuffed animals and being drawn to childlike things. I do that too. When I was a kid, I had lots of "things" but I wasn't really allowed to play with them. They had to be kept nice just in case they were worth something later on. Now, I find myself trying out things, or buying myself action figures or things like that. Or one day, I took my son to the park and played on all of the swings and slides and things. It was so much fun. I have a hard time just having fun.
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Thanks for your comments, CB123, Tayana, and Axa. I have a few action figures, too - females! Something empowering about that. I also have really gotten a lot out of kids books, especially ones about emotions and loving relationships.
Sorry I am not contributing much to others' posts. I feel depleted in mental energy lately - insomnia due to Nmom's upcoming visit. I feel like I am preparing for a disaster. I give too much energy to it, but find it hard to stop. Like an addiction to drama and fear. But I am still reading and hanging in there. Just wanted to say thanks to you all.
Green
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Hi Green,
Can you ask yourself "What's the worst that could happen?" a la Victor Frankl?
Maybe you could rehearse a little.
Practice her saying inflammatory things that USED to hurt you...but prepare by meditating/visualizing...peaceful, mature Green, simply saying an internal la-la-la-la, and responding with non sequiturs.
Non sequiturs are great Nammo.
Good luck with it. She doesn't own your thoughts...you're free as a bird.
Hops
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Dear Green, When is she coming? Does she live near yo u I can understand how you would feel drained. . I will keep you in my prayers. Love and Big Hugs Ami
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Thank you Hops and Ami,
Today I feel like I am in quicksand, trying not to struggle so much that I sink. Trying not to be too hard on myself for returning to this familiar, miserable place. My NMom will visit at teh end of this month, but we have just exchanged a couple of falsely rosy emails planning when we can get together when she's in town. She lives far enough away that she will fly. I have not seen her in about one year. I am relieved that she did not ask to stay with us, as my H and I decided that we will never stay under the same roof with her again.
She is bringing her new boyfriend, her biggest source of N supply, so I think her visit is intended to impress him and convince him that she is a fabulous mom and grandmother. Never mind that she never calls, not even on my birthday, and does not bother to establish a relationship with her own granddaughter. That is for the best, as I don't really want them to interact much anyway. At least my mom will be on "good behavior", trying to play the role for her boyfriend. Her abuse will be more subtle - is that a silver lining? :?
thanks for the ideas - non sequitur - looked it up in the dictionary: "a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said". Yes, that makes sense - must remember that technique. I want to see this as an opportunity to practice what I have learned over the past year, with our minimal phone and email contact, and from reading about Ns.
I am just afraid that I will allow my buttons to get pushed and my rage will get the better of me, and that I will tell her off. Maybe that's "the worst that could happen". if I did, the visit would be over and we would most likely go NC for a while - she would give me the silent treatment. I have stood up to her a couple times in the past couple years (by email) and that is what happens. Then again, that actually sounds pretty good on some level! :?
Thanks for everything,
Green