Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dr. Richard Grossman on April 03, 2004, 11:43:42 AM
-
Three months ago, my beloved 14 ˝ year old Golden Retriever, W., died of kidney failure. W. was my first dog, and both my wife and daughter would complain, half-joking, that I loved him more than them. W. slept at the foot of the bed: every night I would give him a kiss on the snout, and depending upon how well he was feeling, he would either lick my hands or give me an air kiss or two. When he had had a particularly good day, he would tuck my fingers between his gums and the side of his mouth.
When W. died I felt both grief and panic. The grief was, relatively speaking, easy. I would cry a few times a day, share stories with my family and friends, talk to my patients who spent time with him on the porch before or after sessions—or wave to him if they felt too shy (voiceless?) to intrude. The hard part was the panic. To the readers of this forum, the panic is probably easy to explain and all too familiar. If W. is not there, he is no longer real, and if he is no longer real, what was the point of his existing in the first place, and thus, what was the point of my existence? I was reminded again what I have often experienced and what my patients tell me (what the Tom Hanks character discovers in the movie “Castaway”): if you are all alone, nothing is real. Although my rational brain counter argued, these feelings plagued me for weeks.
About a month ago, I had a dream W. was at the foot of the bed. I knew he was dead, but still he was there. I could get up, give him a kiss on the snout, feel his fur on my lips, receive some licks, experience his pleasure—all of which I did, still knowing he was dead. In the morning I woke up and felt, for the first time in months, relief and calm. W. wasn’t in his usual spot, but I had finally re-found him inside of myself.
I write this because I want to encourage people to keep posting. As you know not everyone on this board will agree or even hear. There will be arguments, fights--and panic when the person/people you want most to listen, can’t or won’t. But if you keep at it, honestly, genuinely, and vulnerably, you will find your way into, at least, some of the hearts on this board (mine included), and you will be a little less alone.
Richard
-
Dr. Grossman,
Thank you so much for the touching story. My father died two months ago and I find myself having the same feelings. I still cry a few times a week :cry: and the grief is lessening with each "good cry". You put exactly how I'm feeling into words that I could not express. You have helped me more than you will know.
Thanks so much for caring for all of us here on the board . . . finding people who have been in the same situations has helped me tremendously!
Survivor
-
I write this because I want to encourage people to keep posting. As you know not everyone on this board will agree or even hear. There will be arguments, fights--and panic when the person/people you want most to listen, can’t or won’t. But if you keep at it, honestly, genuinely, and vulnerably, you will find your way into, at least, some of the hearts on this board (mine included), and you will be a little less alone.
Richard
It was a beautiful story that you shared with us about your dog. Richard, this also does show me a compassionate side, your human face. That you have a heart, that you cry. A man crying is obviously compassionate and gentle. But I don't get how this relates to your locking the 4 threads.
Do you feel the need to remove any possible image you've created of a heavy handed, male authoritarian, chauvinist? Re- the type Alice Miller talks about. Is this your feifdom? Are you Lord? Do you rule with an iron fist? Or are you sloppy, allowing the situation to get to the point that it did? People's emotions getting stretched the limit.
Part of me thinks that you closing these threads was "Well done."
The thing had escalated to the point that I was beginning to worry about the spouses and children of those fighting. People off balance, you would know, often take it out on their nearest and dearest.
But why did you wait so long? Then your action was somewhat like 'coitus interruptus'. CHOP! No more. And I geet such an overwhelming feeling that you doing this has CREATED voicelessness.
PLUS, you gave no warning beforehand of what you were going to do. You only gave one warning. You warned guest that would delete guests post. So you do do this, warn I mean.
You didn't suggest they take it to PM, warn, or ask them to do anything, like tone it down, take time out. You decided unilaterally, for them, for everybody. This seems so male authoritarian to me. "Girl's, go to your room." "Yes Dad!"
Leading up to this, did you intervene and moderate at any time?
You just seemed to let these things go on, and on, and on.
I apologise if I'm wrong about you Richard, but I think you should have at least given warning about what you intended to do, well before you did it. Giving them the chance to settle down and take it in a different direction. Hard Call? Maybe, but it's got me wondering? Hey, maybe they did take to PM, maybe that's where everybody is. :D :D :D :D
I think I would hate to be one of those people now. I think I'd feel completely humiliated and silenced. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
You seem to adopt the approach in most cases of conflict of sitting back and watching it. And that these problems usually sort themselves out. If this is true, then there seems to me to be another side of this power that you hold. You have the power of intervention at any time. Why leave it go so long, when people are losing it, and well into hysteria to give it 'Then chop!'
I hope I haven't offended you Richard. I know what it's like to lose a beloved family pet. I'm glad you found him/her again in your heart. This post was not intended in any way to trivialise your story or your pain, I assure you.
I just wanted to express my confused thoughts about you at the moment, and let you know that I think I have developed some feelings of mistrust about you after this event.
I hope that's all it is, and I'm just confused at the moment about all this. So I open myself up here to you and all, criticise away. I wanted to open this up for discussion, and I just hope :lol: that if you or others want or feel the need to defend you Richard and your actions, please take note of the fact that although I post as guest I too am a fellow human being with feelings. Also I'm just asking questions and sharing with you all my concerns about what is happening.
Concerned Guest
-
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the board and for the message. I'm sorry about your friend/dog. Losing a devoted, trusted and loyal friend like W is so hard.
I agree with your comments about panic being one of the more difficult emotions to deal with. It feels so open ended. So over the edge. The out of control nature of panic is unfamiliar and unsettling. It feels like you might enter no-mans-land and never return. In another thread there was a discussion about feeling sad and being okay with it. It is more difficult to feel panic and be okay with it. The only thing I know to do is to slow down my mind (with reading, with lights on). To attempt to change the nature of my thoughts.
I don't know if that is the healthiest option, but sometimes it works. I have not had the courage to stay with the panic and let it happen.
Thanks again for the board and the encouragement to post. Even here I sometimes feel frightened to post my thoughts. Not yet enough self-confidence in my thoughts. But it is great to have a place to try to communicate my thoughts and to recieve thoughtful responses.
lynn
-
bye
-
HI Guest,
I just wanted to comment that I think you are making Rchard's decision to lock the threads he locked too complicated. When things are getting out of control and they certainly were here, I think its good sense to impose a time out. It has nothing to do with chauvenism or patriarchy; its the responsibility of the moderator of the board to keep things "safe "for all. Please if we could try to refrain from stirring up more discord and for now lets just enjoy the peace and regroup.
Surf
-
Dear Guest,
I think that you are making things unnecessarily complicated.
I will keep my comment simple and stop.
Relax!
-
I think those last two posts were far more inflammatory than that of Concerned Guest who raised a number of valid points. Some I agreed with and some I didn't. I was prepared to respond with thoughtfulness in return. But not while there are people so anxious to put a blanket on others to muffle them and to use put downs to do so. (Relax! indeed!!!)
The points Concerned Guest raised were about voicelessness and feelings.
I'm just confused at the moment about all this. So I open myself up here to you,
I want to encourage people to keep posting...if you keep at it, honestly, genuinely, and vulnerably...you will be a little less alone.
Seems to me that Concerned Guest did what RG wanted. The last two posters did a 'you are' job on concerned guest which is a put down and a distancer and makes a lot of assumptions about that person.
RG Your words affected me greatly - I've been sobbing on and off for the past 16 hours but I'm not posting to explore 'why' when I feel so vulnerable and only 'some' thoughts and feelings are acceptable. People who define which thoughts and feelings are acceptable make others voiceless.
Please if we could try to refrain from stirring up more discord and for now lets just enjoy the peace and regroup.
You have indicated what you want but, rather than expressing it in terms of your wants and feelings - and looking at the reasons why - (like CG appeared to do) - you have presented it as a requirement imposed on everyone else. You make it so that anyone who wishes to discuss feelings about this issue is defined as 'stirring up discord'. :shock: I'm not that shocked - it happens a lot.
1. For me, these two posts spoilt all the good, kind feelings that had been expressed hitherto in this thread.
2. Putting a blanket on things is what allows persecutors to have their insidious way. Maybe you feel it keeps you safe from the persecutor - but it doesn't deal with the pain or the problem.
3. Expressing feelings about how one feels about something allows closure. It's not repeating the incident all over again.
Surf, I'm going to front up to you on this one - I experience you as consistently trying to smother/put a blanket over my feelings. You are in good company as my husband and my father have a preference for that kind of response, too. Lots of people do. I did signal this to you before but I hid it rather as I didn't want to be rejecting but I don't think you noticed. I would like you not to do it to me again. Personally, I would like you not to do that to other people either. Personally, I don't think it's healthy. Personally, I'd like you to recognise that you do that. But that's just me.
Tokyojim, you have a need for people to 'stop'. You like that word. Stop. Twice you put a stop AFTER a post of mine. The way you presented it was good for me - and totally inflammatory for the other party, making them feel so voiceless that they had to shout to be heard. Think about it. Think about the effect you had. That's only my opinion. But, personally, I'd like you to stop making people stop and look at what your need is instead.
Concerned Guest - I think I recognise your voice. If you are who I think you are - I have been astounded that you have such a calm measured and gentle voice after having suffered so much in your childhood.
Out of MY need, I want to say how genuine I thought your post was. You wre honest and kind. You said you felt confused and you demonstrated that confusion in your post. Expressing confusion means you express conflicting opinions or thoughts. People will pick on one side or the other to get their own feelings out and put you down. Please don't be hurt or shut up by them. You probably aren't - I'm expressing my own need here!!! :wink:
I also want to say 'Thank you, Concerned Guest - from one of those most affected by this. The confusion and conflicting thoughts and opinions you expressed helped me understand some of my feelings. You put words to feelings. That always helps me enormously. You expressed some things I hadn't thought of, some of which I don't agree with - but I support totally your right to express whatever comes from the heart. The things I don't necessarily agree with are still interesting and worth picking over to see how they might fit in and lead to a better understanding. Just now I wouldn't have had the courage to even attempt putting into writing the things you shared. I am very grateful."
I'm also aware that I'm coming in between two parties here - the last two posts and Concerned Guest - before CG gets too angry or hurt. So I'm doing it too!!! Coming from my own childhood habits, rescuing. Drawing fire. Inviting you to pick on me rather than CG.
Now that's the kind of thing to want to stop!!!!! We need to stop 'stopping' and stop putting blankets over things and stop getting in the line of fire!! :wink:
But I'm still mad that someone who opened themselves up to us all got put downs and shut up. (Now that IS about projection!!)
R
-
I probably should have articulated my thoughts better.
First, my comments are not directed toward any person with intention to badger, quiet, stifle or inhibit.
By "stop" I meant to cease the convoluted debates over specific meanings and intentions because that does not seem to lead anywhere except to more and more debates.
Maybe I was under a false impression (or just wish-fullfilling), but I thought that this forum was to support one another and get ideas. It does not seem fruitful to debate and attack among ourselves. Most people on this forum are struggling with some relation with NPD. They have enough of that in their lives already.
To explain "stop," I would hope to see our mutual support and encouragement and to cease attacks that become convoluted. Lastly, please do not accuse me of having some "issue." That is simply an attack in disguise, a form of a put-down. If I have an "issue" (I hate psychobabble), I will try to mention it. If others feel I have (or another has) an issue, I think it would be best to simply question the person without a spiteful or aggressive tone.
-
Sorry, I used the wrong word. I should not have written "issue." I should have written "need." (Same thing, anyway.......)
-
I can understand why you used the word aggressive but I think there's a better word (like assertive and upfront and telling it like I see it) but not the word spiteful.
I thought that this forum was to support one another and get ideas.
I gave you an idea. I notice you use the word 'stop' a lot and you seem to want to 'stop' discussion. I was wondering where it came from, what motivated you? If you want to share your feelings, I'll support you if you want me to.
We can't understand other people until we understand what motivates us. Why we do the things we do. Why we say the things we say.
my comments are not directed toward any person with intention to badger, quiet, stifle or inhibit
If that is true, please could you explain what you intended your original comments (relax, you are too complicated, in contrast to you I will keep my comments simple) to achieve, and who they were (not) directed at, so that I can better understand.
We only have words to communicate with here.
http://www.yalom.com/gifttow5.html
I'm writing in a hurry as I have to go but I'm trying to find a better way.
R
-
It borderlines on the unbelieveable and incredible - How you get lost in your psychobabble and rhetoric. Cannot see the forest for the trees and/or find multiple meanings at simple and direct statements.
-
You wrote:
I gave you an idea. I notice you use the word 'stop' a lot and you seem to want to 'stop' discussion. I was wondering where it came from, what motivated you? If you want to share your feelings, I'll support you if you want me to.
We can't understand other people until we understand what motivates us. Why we do the things we do. Why we say the things we say.
I believe that I responded to that twice already. My "feelings" are very simple, and probably do not have anything to do with some kinds of "issues" or "needs." I simply saw a pattern of bickering among the members. (I am afraid that you will find issue with the word "bickering" and maybe even "afraid.")
I used to be a counselor at a middle school. The 12-13 year olds would get upset at one another an say something like "Ann told Nancy that Bill said that I told John A, B and C, and when Nancy talked to Steve, he told Bill that I said D, E and F, but really it was Joe that said G, H and I." And on and on. That ALWAYS lead nowhere until the parties just spoke from the heart without trying to be right or wrong. I was not responding to particulars of each sentence or to particular people, but rather to the patterns as I saw them.
It is also like seeing someone who has been divorced 5 or 6 times. He will get into the details and circumstances of each situation. Stepping back, it is easy to see a pattern.
I WAS SAYING "STOP" TO THAT!
GET IT?
-
Oh, please don't say I have "anger" issues..... (I can see that coming....)
-
Good grief - you've come back every hour to post - have you been missing me? Are you trying to taunt me into giving you something else to vent about???
I wouldn't like to let you down. 'Issues'!!!????? You're the only one using psychobabble here.
And you have absolutely no idea what it does to your mind to be brought up by someone suffering with a personality disorder. Otherwise you'd understand what's going on here and YOU wouldn't be so spiteful.
Really, really stupid.
Listen and learn.
R
-
:shock:
I can't believe I said that!
R
-
After all the efforts you have made to show how "considerate" you are, Rosencratz, it is interesting that you are not above being personally insulting.
Calling someone stupid. - is that the forum equivalent of verbal abuse? Demeaning and belittling them too:-
(Good grief - you've come back every hour to post - have you been missing me? Are you trying to taunt me into giving you something else to vent about??? )
the last sentence of your quote above looks a little like projection to me.
Sarcasm too. Or will you deny that?
Very appropriate for a forum on voicelessness.
You are certainly being hoisted by your own petard in this case.
And now I'm being insulting :?
Round and round the garden we go. Who will apply for the job of teddy bear?
-
Rosencrantz;
Sorry but I disagree with most of what you wrote here and I don't connect all all with your perception that I had tried to smother you and put a blanket over you during pasts posts; I had felt I was very supportive. Its interesting to note how people can so cleanly miss in their communications and perceptions.
I still feel strongly that a time-out when things become too intense is a necessesity and that the 'safety ' of the board needs to be protected when things get out of hand.
Surf
-
Hi longtime lurker. Thanks for this.
Actually, I'm feeling quite cheerful.
Nobody said I had to be 'good' all the time. Lots of other people aren't being very adult. Why is it always OK for other people to attack and hurt me but never OK for me to defend myself??? I always had to be the adult for my mother - understanding, controlled - because she was always out of control. I was never the child. I'd be so much happier if I could be childish occasionally. Not venomous like some are being but just fun and childlike.
I think I already acknowledged I had been less than my usual reserved self in my last post ("I can't believe I said that")
Thank you for noticing that I try to be considerate. I wasn't aware that that's what I do. Actually, it's not my motivation at all. 'Considerate'. Hmm - no it's not my motivation. But it sounds a nice thing to be. I'm glad it comes across that way. Someone else said I was honest and compassionate. Several other people whose opinions I trust have said the same thing so I guess they are accurate. I'd say I was desperate for the truth and desperate for people to feel good about themselves but that the two were often in conflict and as a result I feel terrible most of the time.
No, I don't think that last quote is projection. I haven't posted three times in a row to the same person making personal and mean comments.
I don't mind you being insulting. Thank you for putting words to what you are attempting to do. It saves me feeling confused.
I'm not quite sure what petard you think I've been hoisted on. I think you might be revealing something you think about me rather than something I think about myself.
But thanks for the bait. I enjoyed replying. :D
TTFN
R
-
P.S. Rosencrantz;
Once again in regards to your perception that I wanted to quiet your voice; actually your words were the ones on the board I turned to the most as I found some assist and help from you in how to deal with my impossible mother. Seemed like you understood the best. And I appreciated that. Whatever your perceptions are I wanted to commuicate that. Have a good one and take it easy on yourself and others, OK?
Surf
-
Hi,
I'm new here, and don't really know what's going on, but the feeling I get straightaway from reading this thread is that sometimes I think one can read too much into something that really isn't there. Heck, I do that a lot myself. I think that comes from being a sensitive soul, which is not a bad thing necessarily, but sometimes I think one can overanalyse things too much and see intent when there is none. I've only been reading this board a short while and I feel that everyone here has a good heart, but I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on from all directions. Sometimes I think it's best to give one another breathing space, which is why I think it was probably sensible that Mr Grossman locked the threads when he did, and I don't believe there was any hidden agenda in that. What I seem to see quite a bit of on this board is a lot of analysing of others sometimes, but not enough supporting. Just my 2 cents.
-
To Rosencrantz,
Thankyou for recognising my motivation for posting and expressing your support of my right to post my concerns.
I'm sorry that you doing this has put you under attack. I hope you can walk away from his thread in tact. It's not worth it. RG can respond or not. That's fine I had my say.
If others here feel I don't have these rights, that's okay. I wasn't really interested in their opinions one way or the other. My post was directed to Richard Grossman anyway. I didn't really take too much notice or offence at the others who felt the need to defend his moves. I figure if he felt threatened or the ned to defend himself against little old me, he's big enough to do it himself.
I like this place, and will continue to pot and I'm trying very hard not to get into arguments with people or defend myself uselessly. Thanks everybody for your repsonses. Now back to what ails me.
Bye
Guest.
-
Good lord "concerned guest"... you try running the board & let's see how you'd do! Choices have to be made. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't is how it goes.
I think Richard did the best thing in trying to bring back harmony to the group, and let me tell you, from what I've seen around here whenever I check-in, that is no small feat!
There is always discord & it seems to be the same few people at the center of it. I don't know if Richard can track IP numbers as part of the tech. setup of the board, but if it is possible, I'd be all for me banning the IP's of consistent trouble makers.
He did not create voicelessness by locking the post. You are free as a bird to address any issues that this board was intended for. As other's have said, that is, support & sharing regarding voicelessness and dealing with N's in our everyday lives.
Yes, disagreements occcur & it is sometimes best to let them be sorted through to the end, but the arguing that goes on here, & with the same people, is relentless, and that is the difference, and why it seems necessary to lock threads.
May I *gently* say, that it seems you have do have strong feelings regarding what you might deem an "authority figure". Your language directed at Richard seemed really harsh & defensive. This is not a criticism of you, only something you might want to consider. Though, what will probably happen are scathing words directed back at me.
Richard is right, sometimes people are just not at a place where they can truly hear you, even if you are being kind, and have a reasonable point.
And R, you do often over-analyze and pick apart threads, to the detriment of the interaction. I won't go back into a discussion of a thread that has been locked, but will say that you do *sometimes* (not always) over-complicate issues by nit picking them.
You once asked me to take re-read my messages and try to imagine how they might make others feel. You thought I might sound a little condescending. Well, I kindly conceded to you (I am not interested in creating negativity here) & did so. It made a difference.
Might I suggest you do the same in terms of the over-analyzing & picking apart of other's messages? When you do this, all perspective regarding the essential point of the person's message gets lost to you...
[/b][/i]
-
This is the same guest (I'll call myself topaz) as above.
Richard,
I found your story spiritual, beautiful, and also inspiring, as you intended it to be.
I am only sorry for the thoughtless and cold tone of remarks you received, mixed in with such a sacred topic to you...
Anyway, it didn't ruin the impact of the story for me...
Very sorry about your dog, but glad for the wonderful experience that you had, and how it helped you...
-
Round and round the garden we go. Who will apply for the job of teddy bear?
I thought this line was so funny Longtimelurker. Whether you meant it to be funny or not, it was. Thanks for the laugh.
Now to everybody else, can I also say please, that I accept responsibility for where this thread is going. I feel very very uncomfortable that Rosencrnatz seems to have become the focus of a lot of, what reads to me, to be misdirected hostility.
I addressed a concern I had with RG. Some chose to ignore my comment, which I felt was mature and perfectly acceptable to me. Others posted their support for Dr G, and it was mature and acceptable. And some said I was wrong. That's fine, even the added criticisms don't bother me. I didn't and won't challenge any of you on your right to express your opinion about what me or what I posted.
But Rosencrantz defended me, and that was her right to express her opinion. That's okay isn't it, for her to defend me if she wants to feels she needs to? She said we shared some of the same opinions, and she was affirming that.
It seems to me that her style has come under attack here. And style is a very personal thing. I doesn't get much more personal than that. We really can cause tremendous damage when we mishandle people on this level.
If anyone uses this thread as an opportunity to bring out 'Old Axes' to grind against Rosencrantz or anyone else, does that really advance us at all here? This is a support board, isn't it? Rosencrantz supported me, so now I'm supporting her.
Some of you have strongly supported Dr G. And I'll say now, I am sorry for offending you and I also apologise to Dr G. if my post offended him.
The old voicelessness issues that we are all here dealing with here, do not license any of us to say hurtful things to each other or conduct callous in-depth post-mortoms on each other. If that's what I was doing with DR G, and I still can't se it, I apologise in advance of my seeing it.
Questioning each other is fine if it honestl and mixed with compassion. I try always to bear in mind that each of us found our way here because life has dealt us some pretty severe blows. It's so easy to be insensitive, I know. I can be extremely insensitive, usually with the wrong people. Was that you this time Dr G. I'm sorry. The people who I'm afraid of I find I'm automatically extremely sensitive with. I'm trying to grow and develop a compassionate listening voice here and at home and in the big wide world.
My aim here on this forum, besides learning from you all, is to be ever mindful that each and every one of you that I relate to and share with here, I have a duty of care to. I musn't, I can't, I won't abuse this intimate privilige that you have all given me. Especially when you're sharing here some of the deepest pains and secrets in your lives. And as a result of that I'm growing and healing. I owe you whatever amount of gentleness and compassion and I can manage. Life has already been way to hard for for you and me. I don't want to make it any harder for you.
Love to each an every one of you, and love and thanks to you Rosencrantz.
Guest.
-
Hi, All
Dr. Grossman, your story about your dog really touched me. I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. I am a major animal lover and my dogs, cat, birds, fish and all the other critters around me are some of the most important and dearest aspects of my life.
Why are they so important? For me, it's because they give me more love than I ever thought I deserved. My pets have taught me more about love than any other being, book or experience in that they've shown me with absolute clarity what the unconditionality of love really looks like. I never knew such a thing existed until I started coming home to bounding doggie kisses, helicopter tail wagging and howls of pure joy (plus the cat screaming and the birds screeching like quintessential banshees!)...all for me, no matter what mood I was in, no matter what I'd said five minutes before opening the door, or what good deeds I had or had not done that day. My pets changed everything. My pets are who I aspire to be - absolutely good, joyful, strong, courageous, ever-giving and loyal to the end, no matter what the circumstances - passed or present.
So, when the day comes, again, to loose one of my four-legged/feathered/scaled loves, I will be heartbroken and face the acute, searing devastation that is grief. I will also smile and think of a phrase of Buzz Lightyear's in the movie Toy Story..."To infinity and beyond!!!" For, the type of love my pets have shown me is truly infinite in quality and quantity and in such love is held, I believe, the answers to all our questions about space, time and the purpose of our existence.
What a priviledge it is to share our lives with these marvellous gifts. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
God bless,
Rojo
-
Many thanks for all of your compassionate comments about W.—I very much appreciated them. W. was truly a dog with “voice.” Even in the last few months of his life, he made it very clear where he wanted to go in the neighborhood, and if I tried to lead him somewhere else, he would sit down on the sidewalk and refuse to budge.
Concerned Guest: I understand you disagreed with how I handled the board situation, and that it has led to a degree of mistrust. I hope over time the trust will return, and I truly appreciate the hard work/self reflection you are doing on this board.
Once again--thanks to all,
Richard
-
bye
-
well there's a thread that turned around.
thank you rosencratz and thank you guest.
my teddy bear remark was meant to be funny! :D
-
Dr. G -- your post on W prompted me to comment. I have always had a dog throughout most of my life, but when I lost my best little friend in 1996, I have never been the same. I am aware of it and so are others who know of the situation. Remember the "Mr. Bojangles" song -- that dog up and died ... after 20 years he still grieves. That's me ... and I think what it is is the loss of true, non-conditional love, so sweet, tender and kind. It is truly a loss and leaves a big void if you have not received much love in your life. As to reality, I am quite certain I will see him again when I transcend into whatever other state we move to after death. Reality is only our own personal perception and I like to think he will be part of my reality. Thanks for bringing up the subject :)
-
Great message concerned guest.
I really respect what you wrote...
-
Dear Richard,
you can't believe how much your story had an impact on my heart.
When I was a little boy, my N parents thought a dog was the only "thing" missing in our household..the only accessory left out of THEIR perceived perfect effort at making our family look the part. And so they purchased a beautiful black Labrador for my brother and I.
He did not have a very long life..although during it M learned to watch Tarzan ( in french!) with my brother and I every saturday evening..we were both fascinated with him for that. He was hugable, squeezable..licky and friendly..but most especially he was loving toward us...unlike my parents.
Having this dog seemed to be a last ditch effort on their part to " make us happy" or else...That very summer, my brother and I were taken to visit a boarding school and enrolled for the coming year. We left home..having been ill prepared for such a departure, thinking we would come back soon to our home and our dog.
When we returned, a full month later, N mother had had the dog put down. Just like that..when we, in shock attempted a protest, we were faced with a barrage of her excuses and an order to remain reasonable and understanding. There are of course many other episodes of being put before a fait accompli ..including the story of another dog M2, a beautiful golden Labrador who spent more time with my family, much to the disdain and displeasure of my drug addicted and alcoholic N mother. She hated the dog, and was to my astonishment and bewilderment, bitterly jealous of him!
Both my brother and I were of age to go to University and strangely had not even considered escaping with M2 just in case she did it again. We probably considered this happening again individually, silently..as we were perfectly Voiceless then. And, the inevitable happened..we came home to a drunken/sedated N mother who swore the dog had escaped and hadn't been seen in days...We knew it was a lie and we voicelessly, silently hated N mother..indeed N parents more than ever before but could not express it.
In 1989, I, Nic, had an episode of cancer. I had treatments every day of the week for six weeks. A few years earlier I kept a promise I had made to myself after my mom had my dogs murdered. I had chosen a beautiful German shepherd dog ( they had always been my favourites) and called him B.
B was there with me throughout my illness. He slept with me, ate with me, listened to me..we had a life! When the community nurse came to my home to give me treatments, he eyeballed her until she left. He saw to it that she was nice to daddy! Some days I was so tired he would actually sense it and forego one walk to let me rest a while longer..he really cared, he really understood.
When he died..kidney cancer gone metastatic..he was a sight for sore eyes. From day to day I could see him fading away..I couldn't face it..and when I did it was stoically. You gotta go when you gotta go..blah blah blah!
He died. I didn't feel anything. One morning, a very dear friend at work asked me what was new. I started to tell her about B..her eyes were filling with tears as I spoke..and I completely lost it. A full three days after his passing! Having as a reflex the capacity to auto-criticize myself, I launched into all out war against myself. I loathed the fact that I had had a delayed reaction to my best friend's death! How could I? Maybe I was heartless and self serving after all! Maybe I was all that my N parents said I was...
Those feelings continued for a long time..until I came here and put my finger on my real problem. That I was raised voiceless. I think it is possible to love a pet more than one's own family..if only in appearance. There is a special silent love between beings who can't speak and children/people who don't have a voice. There is an understanding from both of how silence works. Voicelessness is the bad side of silence..but there is beauty in silence..there is sometimes deeper meaning to what is not expressed by words because words can't cover it all. Silence, appropriate, graceful and peaceful silence is the language of the heart. It seems that both you and I have spoken this language to our pets. Perhaps we can find refuge, solace in this silence, comfort in the unspoken yet understood during the difficult times.
I have three dogs now..since B's death..how 'bout you?
Love Nic.
-
HI Nic;
this post brought tears to my eyes. I am an animal lover as well and have lost several very special animals that were like children to me. I hope you are recovering from your unspeakable childhood and wish you the best with your animal family. Surf
-
Dear Surf 14
I didn't want to miss the opportunity to thank you for your kind words in response to my post.
Yes I am recovering from my horrible childhood. It is at times a very lonely experience..i'm working hard to tame that loneliness with which I have lived a very long time.
I know logically that we all get lonely..i know we are all ultimately alone. I deal better with aloneness than loneliness however. The latter is a product of,whereas the first is a state of mind, or a condition over which we have no control.
Loneliness..yes well..one more thing to solve right? It's an emotion, a feeling that is unpleasant. I've learned that I don't have to feel this way or that way. Living is not about emotions..emotions are much like the atmosphere or the weather, they come and go. My Nparents are weather-like and once they've dumped whatever it is they're going to on me, they go away.
I've severed links to them and so i don't experience their projections and conditions directly. We speak mainly through barristers and sollicitors. Isn't that typical of the N though..no matter what contact you have with them they make sure you somehow have to pay! So be it..
Thanks again for your support and kind words,
the doggies are fine thank you! :)
love Nic :)
-
Finally come back to respond to the original post. Couldn't connect with the dog thing. The PrissyPants family shiver slightly at getting so 'involved' with an animal. :wink: And I was in a WHAT are you talking about mood. I am NOT going to connect with THAT. Hmmph.
In the morning I woke up and felt, for the first time in months, relief and calm. W. wasn’t in his usual spot, but I had finally re-found him inside of myself.
Finally 'got it' today. I didn't realise that my father was the buffer between me and my mother until he died. The buffer had gone. I was open for major punishment with no shield beside me or in front of me. No-one to stand for logic, no-one to say 'give over', no-one to stop 'her' ripping me apart. And it opened up all sorts of wounds.
Especially the one about my sanity. What's real? What she believes or what I think? What she says she does or what I feel she does? I can cry out for as many 'reality checks' as I like and it don't make a bit of difference to the uncertainty underneath - and the guilt for thinking 'differently'.
And, finally, today, I 'got' it. The buffer now comes inside me! I'm not sure how much my father was a buffer anyway - but he 'stood for' the concept of a 'buffer' 'out there'. Maybe it was always 'in here' anyway and I just 'thought' it was 'out there'.
Anyway, if the buffer is now inside me, my sense of my 'self' and what's real becomes stronger. I can determine what's real without guilt and without uncertainty.
I've always had a rational question mark about everything - THAT stays. It's important to question our presumptions and assumptions. But the uncertainty, the guilt, that's derived from my relationship with my BARMY mother - goes!!! As someone said to me recently 'Black IS white'. And she didn't even know my mother!!! :wink: I'll have my own rainbows - double rainbows in fact - and I'll enjoy them without wondering if they are real or if I'm real or if I'm BARMY, too!!!
Work in progress.
R
-
Nic--
Were you ever well trained not to feel! And now look at you! You give hope to us all, and
rosencrantz--
thanks for coming back to the story. I'm glad you found some meaning in it.
Best wishes,
Richard
p.s. no new dog yet, Nic. For now, I prefer living with my memories of W.