Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: elculbr on June 10, 2007, 05:11:22 PM
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Has anyone dealt with an NPD parent who physically and psychologically tortured them at a young age (1-12)? I can’t really relate to people here, because most were not physically abused, which makes it different…
I'm new here.
My story:
I'm an eighteen- year old female college student. This year was my first in college and my first taste of freedom. I have learned in the last two months that my father has NPD, and that my mother is/was a brainwashed pawn, too afraid to leave him.
He verbally, physically,emotionally abused all three of us (my sisters and I) when we were young. I was the oldest so I got it the worst. It started as far back as I can remember, probably around age six. I was constantly mocked and belittled and he would use homework to humiliate me. He would scream and yell and tear away at me until there was nothing left. I would start to cry-I would be mocked for it-then I would hate myself for crying and he would threaten to beat me (or burn me with an iron) if I cried and I would be too nervous to do the work right. Then i would get a beating with a belt. These sessions would go on for hours on end, at night when my mother was at work. I now realize that these were torture sessions. One time when I was eight, I was beaten until my leg split open. My sisters and I have had to stand in dark closets for hours on end, eat dog food, sleep outside half-naked ("like dogs") and live in fear. I had no self-esteem (still don't). I hated myself so much. By age ten I wished I would just die in my sleep. Good times.
I can not describe the terror. He would blow up over nothing. He wanted us to be afraid of him. He stopped being physically abusive in 1999 with an incident with the police (family dispute where he strangled my mother).
But my mother would invalidate our experience along with him. I guess it was to make herself feel better by what she ultimately condemned us to. We would be so afraid of him, and she would get mad at us, "Why do you act like he is some monster..other kids would love to have a father etc..or my favorite: “he loves you” (keep telling yourself that bitch) He would say: "It's all in your head...you are making it into a big deal..."
So I never really knew what to think. And I have so many problems. I might have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, I have no sense of self.. coming to college and living among others who have not had to deal with this has made me realize how dead I am, how utterly empty and hollow I am. I realize that I live in permanent depression. It feels like I am not even really living, or something. Until just recently, I learned to stop hitting myself. At fourteen yrs. old, I was starting fires at school and cutting words into my hands. I think I have dissociation episodes. I can’t even comprehend how messed-up I am. And I feel like I have become him. For instance, I can't understand love and why it is such a big deal. At the end of April I read a book titled, "People of the Lie". And it trigged so much rage, now I understand what is wrong with my sick, sick “family”. So I have gone NC with my father and mother too, since she is his pawn. I have cut them off, completely just, last week as a matter of fact.
Has anyone dealt with an NPD parent who physically and psychologically tortured them at a young age? (5-12) And last year he told me this: He told me that he is not crazy, that all that stuff he did on purpose to destroy what I was and to create what he wanted.
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Welcome!
You are not alone!
My Nmother would go into Narcississtic Rages, at the drop of a hat, over nothing. She treated her children like possessions to be used and abused at her whim. For myself, I'm not ready to go into all of the details due to PTSD.
Bones
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Welcome!
You are not alone here. My mother was never physically abusive, but psychologically, she was a master. I've only just now found some real self-esteem, and it's pretty fragile.
((((((hugs)))))))
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elculbr,
I am very very sorry. You DO have PTSD...you've been through hell.
GOOD for you for deciding no contact. They are not "parents".
I have an Rx for you, and it's totally my bias, I just believe it would help. You need to fight this war on mutliple fronts until you are free and at peace. (And you CAN be--you will be if you do these things, imo.)
1) get yourself to a women's shelter pronto and ask them where the best support groups for adult survivors of child abuse are
2) attend one faithfully, regularly, every single week.
3) get into therapy--with a psychiatrist, imo, for such severe depression--once or twice a week and plan to do it as part of your life for the next 5 years. Shop around and choose the best qualified person you have access to
4) go see an MD and get a complete physical and tell him or her what you just told us
Think about being 30 years old. It's going to be very different for you. Better.
Hops
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Elculbr,
You are so welcome here. I think there is a range of suffering that each of us has lived through--and I think there are people here who will understand much too clearly the life you have lived. Please keep coming back and I'm sure they will respond as best they can.
You sound as though you are deeply hurting. Is there anyone where you are that is keeping track of how you are? Do you have a therapist or support group? I think it's important for you to take advantage of every resource out there. You are worth it and we will tell you that over and over--but you know that there a lot of hurdles that you have to go through before you believe that it's true.
I am so sorry Elculbr, that you have had to go through this. You may have to tell your story over and over until you heal--and to give us a chance to tell you that your perception of what was going on is correct and that you don't have to believe the mind games that your parents have told you. Tell it as often as you need to tell it--and we will listen.
CB
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I can't afford therapy.
The university counseling is giving me the typical bureaucratic crap. I am through. I don't even want therapy. I was eager for it in May,but now I don't want it. I don't care. But I don't trust therapy anyway. I don't trust anything really. I despise institutions:government,god,any structured thing I hate. I see it all as a form of control. I was actually trusting therapy at the beginning, but then of course its a month later and I still haven't seen a proper therapist (not a graduate student in training). it figures. I don't even know why I bothered in the first place.
I just want to find a second job so I can work all the time. The weekends are so bleak. I need work for structure. I would like a weekend job, so I have been looking for one. The job I have now is only 20 hours and barely covers rent. I'm just very tired and want to be left alone. Now I will focus on making money and leaving everyone. I just want to be left alone. I don't want to deal with other people and their endless bullsh*t. But then sometimes I see other teenagers and I wonder what it is to be happy? I can't even imagine what that is like. Sometimes I have moments when I feel how empty I am inside. Its like I'm off balance, like I'm falling, or floating. I need to be held up from the outside because I will collapse on the inside. I think I'm collapsing in on myself like a blackhole. But if I focus on doing things, I don't have to think about it. That is why I need more work. I would like to work all waking hours.
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Dear Elcubar,
That was so beautiful what CB said -- that you can tell your story over and over again here and that will help you heal.
Welcome, I think that you will find your 'little group' of people here who will share your particular pains. You will find people who can say,"Yes, I understand and I am still living."I found that and I needed that desperately.
I am so very, very sorry that you were the child of two monsters. You did the right thing with NC.
I see how you blamed yourself for all THEIR sickness. We all do. I remember reading "People of the Lie".It took me a very long time to face that my parents were in it.
I have not had the physical abuse. My mother broke my mind and my father stood by and watched. I almost lost my mind until I found the board.
My "bent" would be to pray and ask God to lead you where you need to go and to whom.Ask Him to find you those people who will nurture you.
I really know that feeling of being in college and feeling "separate" from the other kids. You lived through a war zone and they seem like"regular kids" having regular college problems. i have felt separate from people for a long time. Very few people do have our reality(with NPD parents)
i think that you made a big first step by reaching out here.
I will share an incident that surprised me when I was in graduate school.I was at U Va. It was a preppy type of place with a feeling of "care free " students" just having a fun life in college.That was my impression. I was taking a Human Sexuality course and I had to go to a meeting of incest survivors as part of the course. When I went, I was so shocked to see so many of the "preppy' girls and other "carefree" looking kids sitting there.
I was so naive about what other's suffered and I still am. I have felt very alone with having a NPD mother. I stopped opening up to other's about my life because they would look at me with a blank stare. They would want to understand. But, they couldn't and I gave up on friends, slowly.
As I heal, there will come a time when I think that I will be O.K. with me. However, it is a step by v step process.
I felt like I wanted to share this because I bet that there are resources for you on a college campus. I would be sure that you are not alone. .
Please keep writing and sharing. This will be a first step for you Love and a big hug Ami
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Elculbr,
What kind of work are you doing? Are you looking for a second job in the same field, or a different one?
How are you doing in school?
I'm just asking the questions to get to know you better. Feel free to answer or not, whatever makes you comfortable.
CB
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Dear Elcubar,
I did not see your last post. I was a graduate student. IMO- I would talk to them if this is your option. You are in a life or death situation now and really need to have some human connections.
When you say that you don't like Government, God etc -that is pain talking. You don't want to go down. You are reaching out.
If graduate students are what is there- they are supervised by teachers and I bet that you will find a person who will help you.
I am reading Frederick Douglass's book on slavery. What really amazed me was how he was led out of tragedy by an "unseen 'hand.
I know that you don't like God and I respect your feelings. However, you need to just hang on ,now and let the Unseen Hand help you to find some support.
I will pray that you find a human being to give you some help tomorrow. I am praying for a miracle for you Love Ami
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Hi El,
Here is a link for you: http://www.twhj.org/cgi/discus/discus.cgi (http://www.twhj.org/cgi/discus/discus.cgi)
I emailed their moderator to ask what free or nearly-free support and resources they'd suggest for someone in your situation.
I feel strongly that you must not numb yourself for too long, even with work. I understand that though...work has been an anesthetic for me too at times. Even now.
But if you work yourself into exhaustion to avoid feeling the pain (which a skilled therapist CAN help you heal from) then the eventual reckoning when your whole inner self tries to fight its way out (which it will, deep inside you WANT to heal)...is far harder on you.
You know better than most, youth is no vaccine against breakdown. I don't want you to break down.
I'm glad you posted here, hon. Keep coming back, keep talking, keep typing. People here have lived through fire and come through to see the beauty in a scar.
With love to you,
Hopalong
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Okay. I walked to the store for milk and stuff and I was overcome with rage, I wanted to ripe the leaves from the trees and watch everything burn. But I'm better at controlling it now. I didn't kill the plants or anything, or hurt myself like I used to. I haven't destroyed anything like electrical appliances like I did in April. Then I got home and played Soul Calibur on my gamecube and I won, which gave me confidence. I feel better now. I good..at least until the next episode, but this one was rather mild. The videogame was good for me and I decided to give this website a chance, that is why I'm replying again-I was planning not to.
CB:
I'm working at the university library in the "preservation department" I sew sheets of music into pamphlets 4 hrs a day 5 days a week. I looking for other work in any field, doesn't matter to me. I applied for other jobs in the library-they aren't hiring. I have tried the bookstore and a foodstore and I'm applying to a dog store. Maybe I should clean people's houses. I will look into that.
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Hi el,
Welcome. I hope you'll stay and allow us to stand by you, one on the right and one on the left during this time of deep need. I'm so sorry you were born into that living hell. Leaving and NC is a good thing.
Does your college have a telemarketing department? Just a thought about the job thing.
tt
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Hi El.
I'm glad your in college and I'm sorry that you had to go through that trip of hell with your *very sick parents*. My mom had abusive NPD father and a mother who was brain dead. Same crap as you. He blacked both her eyes destroyed everything she had and she had to take care of her siblings. He even starved them but they ate well (the parents). They hid food so my mom would sometimes make candy for the little ones out of sugar and water until he found out and beat her. She got out at the age of 18 and never went back. She suffered in silence for years. She felt she missed her childhood, she did, but was able to overcome her nightmare of being these peoples child. Don't give up hope. Things can and will change if you allow it in. Trust is a very hard thing after what you have been through but it can be gained and you will find out that not everyone is a monster.
They have agencies where you can go for therapy for free or sliding scale agencies. If you apply for assistance from your public assistance program you will be able to go for free, get medical and even most likely get grants to help with your college. Call your local congressman and tell them your story. Ask how they can help. They will.
Don't give up and work on your rage. Of course you are angry. I would be too. They were terrible abusers and you were just a kid. Everyone failed you. Where was the system. Didn't the school notice any thing in your behavior, appearance or bruises? You poor kid. I know your sick of the system and mad as hell. But don't give up try just a little bit longer or one more time. You will find someone you like and will be tremendous help to you.
Take your rage and turn it around. Be verbal. Use your voice to tell everyone and anyone that can help you. Don't feel you need to do this all on your own, right now. Call the courthouse where you are also and ask for what they call here,
victim/witness program and ask them what can be done for you.
Turn your life around now Hon, It's yours and you have the choice now. You can get happy. I promise you this.
Do not listen to you father that he is not crazy and he was destroying who you were to create what he wanted. That saying alone is crazy. You know what was done was WRONG, MEAN, AND ABUSIVE.
I can't imagine your abuse but I do know what my moms was. She learned how to live without rage and be a compassionate, loving, happy person. So can you!!
Work is good and can keep you busy make you stay focused but you also want to get rid of the crap that was forced upon you, so please think about therapy, if just one more time.
Keep coming here El.
Love
Deb
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I was very moved by your story. Thank god you have found your voice and are speaking your truth. I am so sorry that your perceptions were minimized and denied by your sick parents. That is one of the most powerful tools that abusers use. To deny what you say and then to accuse you of being insane.
You show an amazing ammount of insight into your past. Feeling alone in these powerful insights is very hard. You are so right when you say that there are few who could understand. I will not say that you are kidding yourself because it is hard to find help. But it is such a good step forward for you to come to this site. Many people here have suffered terrible abuse and they have worked through this hell and can offer a hand up. Taking one step at a time is good and it is safe. Keep yourself safe dear one.
Finding yourself in a safe place away from your family allowed you a new perspective and opened up the floodgates. You WILL SURVIVE. It can feel so overwhelming at times but something tells me that you are very, very strong to have survived what you have and to be able to write it all out here with such skill, insight and honesty. These qualities will gude you through. Try to keep writing here. You will find a lot of validation here. When you are ready, you can investigate other supports. Victim services, womens resource centres, that sort of place can offer support groups. There you will find people, probably women who will be honest and talk about their feelings. The path with heart and through feelings is avaiable there.
You are not alone. That is the main thing. Although what you feel inside is painful, finally there is hope that the road ahead will be so much healthier than the one you are leaving behind.
With love,
Sea storm
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El,
I was just now reading other post where some of us are concerned about having children with a spouse that is or may be an N living with or divorced and sharing concerns of what will happen to the children who have to deal with the N parent. How will they be affected? I saw your post also in response to others.
I just wanted to say that I hear you El as a child who was living and affected by the N parent telling us to get out or get them out.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Love
Deb
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dear elculbr
I am so sorry you've gone through such hell in your young life. You didn't deserve that, you're father is ill and so is your mother.
Your reaching out here has told me two things about you.
1) You're lost and in pain, you don't know how to free or find yourself.
2) Despite the trauma and PTSD, you're able to face your reality and look at it, no matter how awful and confusing it is.
So, you're brave and you're capable, even if you don't know those things about yourself. Yet.
I hope that you can find a good therapist. You need help navigating the path your parents left you on. There's no reasonable explanation for what your parents did to you. You'll have to take my word that they didn't do it bc of you. They did it in spite of you and they couldn't do any better, or they would have.
Welcome. There are many here who want to hear your story and share their knowedge. I hope you'll find some comfort here.
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El:
Your wanting to work and play games is your escape from the pain of examining your life.
Everyone tends to go from one distraction to another, in order to escape pain. It's human nature.
I want you to know that facing your pain is the way out. You must go through it in order to get past it.
So glad to hear you aren't hurting yourself. Please remember to be kind to yourself, however you can. This is a process and you'll have better and worse days. This isn't a dress rehearsal, this is your life and you can decide where to go with it from here.
Do you decide to heal and commit to that?
Do you keep spinning and hurting without end? I sincerely hope you begin healing and that doesn't mean the pain ends abrubptly. I would suggest you start reading with that spare time and filling yourself with knowledge about NPD and how it affects people. Knowledge is always the beginning of my feeling better. ((El))
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((((((((((((((((El))))))))))))))))))))))
I am so glad you are here. I was so angry as a young adult... but I never knew why. Since I had only the psychological abuse, I felt hatred towards my parents, and then felt I was the bad one for making a big deal out of "nothing."
I think you need to rage. And be angry. For a long time probably. But you must find a way that will not hurt you. I believe that you can work through this and come out on the other end - the real person that has been hidden since toddlerhood from fear. And remember that you will not know the person very well, maybe. There are no doubt parts of yourself you have yet to "meet."
El, please remember that no matter what that evil man did to you, none of it was your fault. And I would absolutely stick to NC. And I would search for help, if you truly want it. It seems to me that you are sitting on the edge of the fence. Do you fear the change?
((((((((((((((((((((((((((El)))))))))))))))))))))))
Please share what you can with us. There are so many wise and good people here. We all have been abused in different ways, but we can all find similartites to help each other.
Love, Beth
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dear elculbr--Hi--I'm not going to try and give you advice--I have a 20 year old son and I know how that sometimes goes!! We are very close and he began suffering at his fathers hand(and mouth) since about age 10--that ackward age--you know when he wasn't living up to the "Dad" image. He endured long "speeches" all the while being physically "poked" into a corner--the threat of REAL physical violence always present---forbidden to utter a word in defence--no matter what. In that manner we ALL were "trained".
I did step in--in sons defense for years--usually I got it much worse later--behind closed doors when I did. At 14 my son found his 1st "true love"--and his "Dad" began to IM her--as son--pretending--soon he was "chatting" as himself, calling her his soulmate--of course in a round-a-bout way that didn't exactly come right out and spell s-e-x but was perverted none-the-less
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But that single incident was the beginning of the end--and destroyed my boy. He went on to be a "cutter" in school --he wrote very dark poems--enough for the counselors to call me. I picked up a glass of wine all to often to medicate myself--and stopped stepping in so much as he got older.In essence it felt like we all gave up to his manipulative ways. Then like you he went off to school--and I got the courage to leave.I quit drinking any alcohol--opened my eyes--packed and left.
The kids and I moved and my son and I began having loooong conversations about feelings we had--validations really.His self esteem was in the gutter--he is a reader--so am I--and thats what we did. We talked and we educated ourselves--I suggested to him to "do esteemable deeds"--thats where you re-build--and re-think your life.As awful as it is--there's always someone worse and to connect selflessly to another human being repairs the soul.
I gave him the book-"Trapped in the Mirror"its geared to children of N's--but MY favorite -so far- has been"Stalking the Soul"--It allowed me to clearly see the dynamics of the beast so to speak--so I would NEVER be prey to them again.I wish I could get you together for a conversation with my son--it does help to talk to someone whos "been there".
Okay heres the high school teacher/mom coming out in me---beware of ANY self medication--beware the fix-it relationship--Embrace the Anger as long as need be--then let it go, it will eat you alive-like they did.Educate yourself--obviously you had the grades to get you where you are!!! If spiritualitys not your thing just now have you read the tao?Paint-Draw-Write-Sing-Run-Do ANYTHING that validates you!!! My heart goes out to you--breaks really-- but I promise it's uphill from here--and it DOES get better. Trust yourself.
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Dear El, you are not alone. Promise you. Just the fact that you have decided to change your life is a positive fact on your favor. Read a book about positive thinking. It is very helpful to know what to do when bad or sad thoughts are coming into your head. Do not let sad toughts be the predominant thoughts. I am trying that. Not very successful yet, but on the way. The book that I am reading is "The Secret". Very good and helpful. Listen to Hopalong, read all the threads. You learn a lot fron al the posts.
Also, the action of writing here helps a lot. Knowing that somebody will listen.
Everybody welcomes you here.
God bless you.
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Hi, El...
Here's what I heard back from the Warm Room at the forum I posted the link to:
There might be community help she can seek, or she can get on touch with a therapist that will charge by what is called a sliding scale. They charge accordingly what she makes. If she is a student they might be able to send her to a free clinic. Any hospital can give you some information on it. It probably has to be her who makes the inquiry though, due to the privacy act.
Not the detail I was hoping for, but it confirms what I pretty much know about community resources. And that's not a negative, hon...keep in your mind the understanding that you can't predict you won't find good people to give you good therapy. Some of the best therapy I ever had was in a free group therapy program that a hospital referred me to.
So I'd advise: go to the best hospital in your community, or call a Dept. of Psychiatry--a very good option is at a hospital with a medical school, but many community hospitals have excellent departments even w/no med school. Ask for an "initial consultation" appointment with a psychiatrist who accepts private patients. When they ask if you have health insurance tell them you would prefer not to be charged for an initial short visit, but you plan to pay privately, not through insurance. If they ask what the issue is, you can just say depression and PTSD. Accept the appointment, and at the appointment--tell the doctor that you are here to find out where you can get ongoing free or low-cost psychiatric help--that the college's counseling services are not adequate. You could even hand him or her a printout of your first post on this thread. I can't imagine a better summary.
Hope you can trust me on this. I worked for two years recently in a psychiatric department...and I do have a sense that this is a place to go. If you show such determination to find help for yourself, what they might possibly do is refer you BACK to your college, if necessary, but they would help to cut through the nonsense there so you would see a proper doctor, or, if they say the regular appts need to be at your school (they might or might not--I image someone would see you themselves at the hospital's clinic) -- then you still could have an M.D. psychiatrist take an interest in supervising or directing your treatment.
That's what it is, hon. Treatment for a broken heart. You need to understand that your family broke your heart, and now it's time to heal it. New hearts don't pop up like toast, but noone, absolutely NOONE, can destroy the essential core of you which now is buried under layers and layers of hurt and disappointment and fear. This treatment, if you go and stick with it, will help you find that core and build a new life.
I am absolutely positive you can do it, dear.
with love to you,
Hops
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All this advice is GOLD, El.
Deb has suggested some great stuff, as have others.
You were also the victim of crime. Add to the list:
Congressperson
Victim's services
Perhaps an attorney (Legal Aid does not charge). Being beaten until your leg split open and tortured is a crime.
You have a major at school, right? You can have a double major...here is your other work. Be your own ally
and take that rage and keep demanding help and resources. Be like a hero door to door Fuller Brush
salesperson. You keep asking until you have the support you need. There is nothing that can stop you.
I think you are that strong.
You will find it. And there's no telling what life-changing richness this fight for yourself will bring into your life.
ta for now,
Hops
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Dear El,
I am thinking about you and praying for you. The essential you is still there,as someone said. The fact that your F said that he wanted to "re program " you shows that he was a classic NPD. Most of them don't say it,though. They just try to do it.My mother drove me to the brink of insanity trying to program me.
I am looking back on my life, as I am reading Frederick Douglass 'book, and see how I was directed all the way through. I went through tremendous pain and almost broke many times. However, Divine help came right when I needed it-every time.
Once, I was in college, I was in a school that was too close to home. I realized that if I didn;t get farther away from my mother that I would be destroyed. My aunt in another state said that I could come to stay with her and my cousin. I knew that I had to get away from my mother and this just "opened up". Then, through a series of circumstances, I met a famous actor,who you would know if I told you. He took a special interest in me and he helped me to get in to college in that state. He pulled strings for me(all this was unasked for by me). He had donated money to the school. I want in to see VIP for an interview and, got in to that school.If not, I would have had to go home to the school near my mother.
It was completely Divine. I have so many of these things happen to me like this.
I think that you will find people to care for you and to lead you if you don't give up. We are here.
You were made for a purpose. It was not to be abused. Your F and M are monsters. You will find your essential core if you don't give up. Love and Hugs Ami
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El,
All of the advice here is amazing. I hope you will come back here, at least for the support and having people validate your feelings.
Some other suggestions for your job search, try your city or county government offices. Often they have positions that are during the week doing filing or office work. If your city has a recreation center, you might try there too. These are usually good jobs and pay well, at least in my area. You could also try your public library, rather than the school library. They often have position for library pages to restock shelves and check out customers.
I hope you will follow up on Deb's suggestion about low cost therapy. You could also try a local domestic violence shelter or look for a support group for survivors of abuse. The hospital might know about support groups too. Our hospital here does, and often the meetings are listed in the newspaper.
((((((El))))))
I wish you the very best, and please keep talking.
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dear El.
I am learning so much from your posting. You opened out and shared the horror of what happened to you. There is such healing in that, especially because you were believed and understood. Your reality was validated. I think this is the most important thing in healing. j
I wonder at your ability to survive under such non nourishing and soul destroying conditions. I have seen this resource develop in abused children and can only assume that it is the grace of god that is leading you through. First year at university is a tremendous adjustment for any kid, trust me. I know that from my own experience and from my daughters as well. There is a vast ammount of research on this subject. Success in managing to keep attending university under such stress came down to something surprising was... that the person found one person to relate to who seemed to care. This could be anyone. That is ... the woman at the hamburger stand, a teacher, the janitor anyone. So the illusion of university being like the Waltons or some lovely, just ducky place is just that. An illusion. You are not a freak for finding it all a bit hellish. Try to hang in there. You are so smart and such a survivor.
Sharing your story helps you and it helps us all. Chit chat can degrade the meaning of this site and every once in awhile someone comes along to challenge and wake us up. Your honesty and bare emotions are an awakening to the need for honesty and sharing. If you feel vulnerable for opeining up remember that you are helping us as much as helping yourself. I hope I am putting this ok. There are people who have been through hell here. Intelligent people who are still standing. Who aren't abusers and have chosen the path of service instead. I try to be one of them.
Keep telling your story. We can take it. There is hope dear one.
Sea storm
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Well, thanks for all the advice. I don't know where to start. It makes me weak just reading these posts. I will go to the Women's studies department tomorrow for abuse resources.
Debkor- My F only stopped being physically abusive because of an episode (I call them episodes) where the police came, in 1999. Basically I was so scared that I got the phone and called my aunt in Miami who called the cops. (I grew up in South Florida). Now I'm at college in Atlanta, which is an 11 hour drive away. Two weeks ago (gauging time past is hard for me), I had my aunt get that police report from the city for documentation. I need to become financially independent-but the university has strict polices. I am bound federally to my parents until I am 23 (26 at my college) or until I get my first degree. My F payed for college this year, so that was another layer of control. But I told my financial aid adviser my story and I have given her the necessary documentation (the police report, a letter from my counselor, my own statement) and they will be factored into this year's financial aid, so hopefully I will get more aid. When filing a FAFSA the parent and student financial info is used, I need to be independent, that way I don't need their financial info. I think that I will be granted this-but it is very rare that this happens. My fin. adviser said only about 5 students at the school have this.
So, I was dealing with his mind games all year. When I would come home for winter and spring break I would have to still deal with the subtle “your trash” statements.. “There aren’t many people like you in the real world, you will have to grow up, you are unsure about what you want to do with your life, this is evidence of someone who doesn’t believe in a higher power, you have so much fear in you (I was always criticized for living in fear, living in a shell)…implying that this fear in me was from satan or something…”There are drugs you could take to make you not like you are, but this isn’t always best..” All things were said in a sort of father-bestowing-knowledge on daughter lessons, done outside on the porch in the darkness..to increase the effect. And I was sitting there thinking “what is so wrong with me”. It is so sick. That was spring break.
So anyway, I went back to school and worked very hard to find work and a place to live in Atlanta so I wouldn’t have to go back to home. This was before I read People of Lie (at the end of April). I fell apart then and this was during finals. I had to look for a place to stay and dealing with this stuff, finals were last priority to me. I failed two of them. I could not sleep, I could only eat sugar, thoughts were racing around in my head. I resigned myself from staying away from them and getting counseling this summer. The M and F were actually proud of me for being adult and whatever. I was dealing, until I got an email from my M that said the family was coming to see me for my birthday (July 23). I snapped. I kept telling myself that I would put up with them coming because he pays for college (that was the only reason that I answered the phone when they called, but the phone issue is another story anyway). I would just deal with it all until I graduated-that was the plan. But then it occurred to me that I would be expected to hug him or something when they came and that was more than I could stand.
And then the solution came to me very quickly. I didn’t have to wait three more years. He actually had my university password, to pay for the tuition bills, but he would use it to look at my grades and classes. I changed the password. Then I emailed my M telling her I didn’t want to see her or him this summer and not for a long time. I told my youngest sister (13) that I would do this (I had sent both of them NPD resources.) So I new my M would be calling me that weekend so I talked to financial aid (or tried to warn them) and I told my counselor. And when my M called (Saturday)I told her I don’t want to see them for many years and that I need help. And she starts crying about how she “wanted things to be how she wished or something” and how she stood up for us, and she would get into so many fights with him over how he treated us (strangling incident) and that we wouldn’t tell her about what would happen until much latter. (My M works at night, leaving us home with him for hours at a time). It was sad. I told her to tell F to call me. I told her to tell him that I don’t want to see him. I told her I was getting rid of my cell phone (she begged me not to). So I waited for him to call me. He called at 3 pm. He goes “your mother told me about your pity party”. (He always mocks us for feeling sorry for ourselves). I said that I don’t want to see you. And that I changed the password, he says, “I know, you don’t want me to see your grades!” And I said, “If you want to know my grades you can ask me.” Silence. I said, “you don’t have to pay for my tuition any more, I’m doing that myself. He started to say something, then I said “goodbye.” “Why are you saying goodbye?” And I hung up. That was the end of May. So much can happen in a day. The rest of the day I talked to my M a couple more times, basically she told F more than I told her to tell him (she always tells him everything, so fucking weak). Next time she called she was actually mad that I would have to cut out my family to get help, when I told her that my so called family is the reason I need help in the first. She was like, “its like you’re cutting out cancer.” And I said that I am, I’m cutting out the cancer in my life. Then she was like your Daddy is very upset (that bitch never gets it). He wants to hear your voice, he s in here going crazy, he just wants to talk to you. And this really pisses me off, “He is always going crazy and I’m sick of him. And I hung up.
My youngest sister was my spy during all this. She would email me what was happening at home. She said that they were checking the cell phone records to see who I’ve been talking to and getting counseling from (she actually told him that I was getting counseling). I told her I was getting university counseling. I broke my cell phone into little pieces and threw it into a like. She said don’t get rid of the phone and here it is being used against me, like I knew it would be. My youngest sis says that F is saying that I’ve always been crazy that I talk to myself that I’m in a cult etc. etc. That was Sunday. My S said that my M was coming. I didn’t believe it, but she came Tuesday or Monday (I forget when) with my aunt. My aunt had the police report (that I requested). I didn’t want to see M. I asked her to leave and she did. She said she wanted to see if I was living okay and if I was with reliable people. On the phone Saturday she said that she wants me to be happy even if that means she will never she me again. Interesting.
Well..anyways the police report made me angry because, it didn't even mention the strangling. The incident happened in 1999, I thought it was 2000. I was eleven, my second sis was ten and the youngest was five. I didn't see much of him strangling my M-I saw it briefly before I ran to call my aunt. But it DID happen. My middle sister witnessed most of that. The police report said that there were "conflicting stories" and that my F pushed the chair from under my middle sister and her head hit the ground, but it doesn't mention the strangling. This means that both the F and M lied to protect him. It all could have ended there. So I guess the kids were telling one story and the adults were telling another, so the cops just said "conflicting stories". The report labels my M as the victim, but the write up only mentions my sis hitting her head, thus she lied to protect him.. He did spend some time in jail, a couple days, and he has never forgiven my aunt for her calling the cops. From what I hear, he has never liked her. Well, it was good she called because now there is actual proof of his violence. After this he refrained from actually hitting us. Although one time I swear he punched me n the stomach then he lied about it when I told my M, so I didn’t know what to think. I thought maybe I imagined it. Then the youngest one said that he put chemicals in her eyes, but then he said that she had fallen in the bucket or something. These things didn’t happen every night. They would happen every few months but there was always the fear. And when it was one of the others being targeting, you were relieved because it wasn’t you. Unfortunately it was usually me. I was attacked the most, perhaps because I’m the oldest.
(to be continued..)
It was very hard for me to write all this. I got a headache from it, trying to think about these things is physically exhausting.
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Dear El,
You are so brave. I am so sorry that you have been so betrayed. Your F is a total monster. Whatever comes out of his mouth( concerning how "bad" you are) is a total, sick disgusting lie. The fact that you are even in college and going forward is the epitome of courage. You will find someone to take you under their wing. I know it. You will not be alone in this. Keep going forward ,as you are.
You are so very strong to not have completely fallen apart by now. You are so strong just to be taking care of yourself. Also, you had the strength to separate yourself from EVIL.
What you are dealing with is "evil" -pure and simple.. It sounds as if there is not even a "person" left within your father. He is just a walking specimen of evil--- in human form.
El-don't give up Love Ami
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Bubble bath for you, El...and a nice cup of chamomile.
You don't have to relive every awful moment. Only write here what feels helpful to get out.
And at your own pace.
We're here to hold you in our hearts and help when you need support.
Don't worry about talking or writing when it's too draining.
It IS terribly hard, and you've done an absolutely magnificent job of reaching out here,
and trusting others with your story.
You take care of yourself, hon. Something nurturing every day.
We'll be here but you owe us nothing.
(I'm using the presumptuous "we" but I'll bet my fanny everyone feels that way.)
Okay? Peace. You deserve a piece of peace, and a gentle evening and a good long sleep.
Keep on breathing, don't fear the waves, you've got your eye on the shore now.
hugs
Hops
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El:
My eyes are stinging and I have cold chills reading your post. Your life has been so crazy making hard and I want you to know....
You are an amazing young woman and you've been through so much and come out more whole than you think.
They way you handled your parents and requesting that they not contact you. You didn't give in to your parent's request that you see or speak to your father. You didn't let them bully or guilt you into relinquishing your boundaries.
You set up financing and looked into options that removed you from your parent's control.
You stood your ground when your mother came to the school and enforced the boundary you set for yourself.
I must say, on some levels you're way ahead of where I was at twice your age.
You don't know it yet but, you're going to do amazing things and your going to continue healing.
I hope you stay in touch with your aunt. She sounds like someone who believes in you. That's so important and of course, you have us as well.
If you don't mind my asking what school your attending, no other identifying info please, we can do searches in the area. I also have a psychologist friend in Buckhead, GA and he may have some ideas for surrounding resources we haven't thought of. If you don't feel comfortable giving this information, that's OK too. You need to feel safe and I hope you do. (((((El)))))
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El,
Thank you for trustiing us with your story. I know it was hard to write--I imagine that you feel drained.
Hops is right--be very good to yourself tonight. We will all mirror back to you the truth about your situation--you did not imagine it. No matter what kind of justifying your parents are doing now, and no matter how that confuses you, you have not imagined this. This was abuse and you did not deserve that kind of treatment. That was the behavior of a sick, ugly person and you should not have had to put up with it. And the police should have dealt with it differently.
We will still be here whenever you feel like talking. You will be in my thoughts and prayers tonight, El.
CB
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Dear EL:
I was physically and emotionally abused as a child (for as long as I can remember until I left at 16).
I wouldn't say I know your pain but probably something like it. I'm so sorry that you've had to go through all of this. It isn't fair. It's not what childhood/young adulthood should be like. Your parents are a disgrace.
You have made a couragous and sensible decision to distance yourself from your toxic parents. I also admire your gentle spirit, which shines through your words. The rage in you is not you. It's a product of abuse.
I can tell you what helped me and hope that it might be of some use to you. I was afraid of therapy too. The whole idea of reliving what I lived through just seemed like it would take too much of my precious energy. I know what you mean when you say you're tired and you just want to be left alone. I felt like that too and so I started to take care of me, in a big way, once I left that house of horrors.
One thing that really helped me was a book I found on self-hynosis. I learned to relax my body, to clear my mind and imagine peaceful, beautiful images... and to make positive suggestions to myself. I learned that negative self-talk was a form of self-abuse (yes it was learned and yes it can be unlearned) and so I worked on paying attention and putting a stop to it (it's something, I think, everyone does, to a certain extent, no matter what happens but when it's a portion of most thoughts -- it has a seriously poisonous effect on a person. It needs to stop. I learned to see and feel my anger as a thing that I have a choice about what to do with and how to release it, in healthy ways that hurt no one. I learned, believe it or not...to forgive my abusers because not doing so was only hurting me (not that I expect you are anywhere near ready to do that). I learned to act normal even though I didn't feel normal because I believed I would be normal. Whatever normal is?
I stubbornly decided that I would not allow these "people" to destroy the rest of my life!! I took charge!!
I had to work really hard to pay my own way through college but I knew, as you do too I bet, that it would help me to get a decent job and thus finally be free to live life my way. I took account of my "healthy" coping mechanisms and worked on replacing the not so "healthy" ones (which I learned about by reading on the topic).
Writing and writing and writing really helped get it all out. A friend told me to "write whatever nasty stuff comes to your head for a full 3 minutes. Then, write for one minute about stuff you like, are thankful for, enjoy, want, anything good" and to gradually work on switching those times around so that the nasty stuff takes a minute while the good fills up 3. It helped.
One more thing for now. Fear simply cannot exist without thought (I don't mean you won't feel afraid if someone is holding a gun to your head. I'm talking about the fear that seems to creep in on it's own).
So if you do not think about it.....you won't be afraid. It sounds simple eh? Not really. You have to catch yourself thinking about it and then decide to think otherwise.
That's probably enough for now. I hope you will keep posting. I hope you will end up finding a therapist you feel comfortable with and can afford but until that happens, maybe some ideas above will give you some action to take so you can keep going foreward. You've already taken the most important action and that is cutting off the destructive, life-sucking relationships. Now you can begin to heal.
((((((((((EL)))))))))))
Sela
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Hey El,
You impress the hell out of me you know that. So young and yet so wise. Your some tuff kid.
I know it's hard to relive the pain you have been put through and the mind games/brain washing they tried to do but did not succeed. Look at you El you went all the way to college going to get a career. That is amazing how strong you really are. I'm not just saying that either. The hell you been put through and you just keep moving ahead.
I’m so sorry that you will have to move through the pain to start to heal. It really sucks.
I’ve been there done that only I was a little older then you and it was not my parents it was my husband. He was abusive mentally and physically. I was 24 at the time. I remember the rage I use to feel. I had been through the same deal with police and not quite the true story was in the report. I looked like a nagging hysterical housewife, which was not the case at all.
Very, very frustrating when you want to SCREAM at the top of your lungs and no one takes you that serious. Then more rage and disgust comes. You get fed up with the system and feel you are all alone. No one listens. No one understands.
But they Will, they do, you just have to yell loud enough and long enough. Take it from me it does happen. I see one for you already. You went to college, you now moved and I see you wanting/starting to heal. This is your life and welcome to your beginning of freeing yourself of the BS you had to live in for years. As scary as it can be is as exciting as it can be. It is not your M and F choice anymore. You belong to you. You will make your life what you want it to be not what they want you to be. No more dark nights on the porch filling your head with garbage trying to scare you into what they want you to think. No more, your F does it because he loves you. No more contradicting stories. NO MORE.
Now you work on your anger and the pain they have caused you. Don’t hurt yourself anymore hon we are here now to listen and talk. You take that anger/rage and you slap it out on this computer as pissed off as you want to be. You curse, rant, rage and let it all out. We can take it. We know. We understand. We validate. We support you.
I’m really sorry El it about ripped out my heart when I heard your story. There are plenty of people on here who can relate to your story as kids. Some of us are grown up now but it still was real and still did happen. Things can work out and life can be very fulfilling and I know you are going to be one of the people who will heal, grow, and be happy even if that seems so far away at the moment. It will happen and I hope you can hold on to that. Look what you are making happen already at such a young age. I believe in you.
Let us know whats going on with the fall semester. What services are available to you. Are you taking any summer classes?
Now rest and take a breather. Talking about it is exhausting but feels like you have some weight taken off your shoulders too. Thanks for sharing Kiddo. Hope you don't mind me saying kiddo, habit, I call my kids that too.
Love Deb
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El,
I think you are so brave to be doing what you are doing at such a young age. You have worked out so much on your own already, and it's not at all surprising that you are so angry. Of course you're angry! Your 'parents' don't deserve to have the title applied to them- they wouldn't know how to 'parent' if it came up and hit them in the face!
There are many, many people on here who weren't aware of what they'd suffered being dysfunctional until they were in their thirties, forties, or even later. You have such a headstart by having realised, and, more importantly, started doing something about it, so young. (OK, to you it might not seem 'so young', but to us it does !).
What you've done already , by starting NC, is one of the best, but hardest, things to do to get your life back. No more crazy-making from them, because you refuse to give them the opportunity.
You are NOT making it up, everyone on this board believes what you say. The fact that it is horrendous just makes it sad, not lies. WE know you are telling the truth.
Anger is just one of several stages of healing. You need to acknowledge what happened, then get angry, then grieve, then come to terms, and eventually you can learn to move on in peace. Sounds unattainable when youre in the middle of the anger bit, but it is really possible, honestly it is.
One other thing that is on your side - by realising so early what's been happening and starting to tackle it now, you can avoid what many of us have gone through, and that's becoming a victim to a 'romantic partner' who just continues the abuse, because you don't know that you derseve better than the treatment you got at the hands of your parents. You have got a bright future ahead of you, you just need to do some work on it now.
Janet
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I don't want to overwhelm you, El.
I do worry about your younger sibs, still in the home.
You said you caught the brunt of the abuse and you still keep in contact with them.
In your opinion, are they still suffering from your father's abuse?
If so, could you ask your Aunt to lead that charge for them? Perhaps file a complaint with Child Protective Services and follow up? Perhaps they could stay with her for a while? I'm not sure what the best scenario is but those girls need some therapy and release from living in fear too.
I hope your Aunt is receptive and proactive. I do worry for them.
Hope you're having a productive day and find help and support within your local school community on campus.
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Excal,
When I read of your past, there were so many things I wanted to say to you. I realized though, that no matter what I said, because of what you've gone through, your response would most likely be "yeah riiiiiiiiiiiight! you have NO IDEA," so, I"m going to say what I wanted to, in a poem.
I want to say I love you
but life has ruined that
words of care and mercy
just always leave ya flat
I want to say I hurt too
but no-one feels your pain
you lived it all alone then
and you feel alone again
I want to say I'll help you
but no-one ever did
they only opened doors again
that left you fully hid
Since I cannot convince you
that hope is really there
let me just invite you
to risk that we might care
Let me say there is love
but it's not like what you've seen
Love is safe and comforting
Not cruel, hurt-filled and mean
Parents do not wound you
and they pretend a lie
That's not what truth is all about
A life that leaves you dry
The times you cried in darkness
and felt no hope in sight
you didn't earn those beatings
that went on throughout the night
You didn't earn deception
and lies that held you bound
did not deserve the pain received
and blankness all around
You didn't cause the torture
did not provoke the whip
did not deserve the broken heart
nor warrant torn-up lip
There's someone with an answer
someone who wants to aid
who wants to clean up all the mess
that evil creatures made
He's not someone who hurts you
Not a man who tells a lie
He's a friend who stays forever true
until your time to fly
Mended wings are now your promise
Healed mind your true reward
There's hope and help awaiting
and goals to move on toward
Your past is not your present
and a future does not form
With Deity and friends here
you've found a place that's warm
Please don't discount these words now
as what you've heard before
It takes a risk that's worth it
to find there's so much more
Our tears and prayers will guide you
We'll stand with arms linked tight
You're really gonna make it
Through another struggling night
On the other side of torment
lies a life you've never met
If you let us walk beside you
not a day will you regret
So please just risk some trust now
Let us be your wings to soar
We promise that we've been there
but we know there is much more
We know it won't be easy
but we will be here to stay
Just trust us now to carry you
till the nightmares go away
Just go by tiny steps here
and try to find at last
who you are truly deep down
and freedom from your past.
Blessya, Excal. I do believe I can say for us as a whole on this board...we ARE HERE for you!
~Laura
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I can't follow that, Laura, that was beautiful.
Thank you.
Janet
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Was that your poem Laura? Very nice message for El!
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Thanks for the poem. I don't think that my sisters are getting abused (F is just being himself). They just ignore him, which is what I did for years.
I go to Emory university.
I had a headache yesterday from writing about this stuff. i woke up this morning with that same headache and I have had it all day. I went to the hospital this morning, to the ER. I waited and talked to a psychiatrist and she said to continue going to counseling until they switch me to the out-patient program. I didn't feel helped. She doesn't know what disorders I have without evaluation. I haven't had anyone evaluate me. I went to the women's center and was referred to Karuna Counseling center, so i emailed a therapist there. I am tired of waiting. I missed work because i was at the hospital. My head still hurts. here is a pressure in my brain. I took a nap and when I woke up it was still there.
I'm upset because I still haven't been evaulated, so I don't know what's wrong with me. I feel like I don't have a core. I can't process emotion. Emotion becomes pain or lethargy. I float around.Concentration is hard. I shouldn't have spent so much time at the counseling center.
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El,
Coincidentally I have a dear friend at Emory. I've written him to describe your situation in brief, and asked him what resources he could suggest. I didn't (and wouldn't) go into any detail and will just pass along to you whatever he responds. He's a bit of a stiff but knows that system and all its parts extremely well. May take a while...
love
Hops
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hi El,
Please keep talking about this as much as you want to. Remember that there is always someone here to listen to you.
If it makes your head hurt, you don't have to.
I too, was abused by my father and mother who are both Ns. I have also cut off contact with them.
Remembering is the first step and it is the hardest. Also, cutting off contact is very difficult but it is necessary. You can survive on your own, and much better.
love,
bean
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El:
Sorry you're having physical symptoms from the stress and pressure.
I'm not sure what your going to be evaluated for. Your headache or your emotional state. I think one is connected with the other.
I'll e mail my psych friend and ask for more resources now that I know what area your in. I know that feeling of frustration when you try and try and things seem to go against you. Gotta keep plugging away though.
I think the pain is trying to tell you something.
If you sink down into your sadness and cry and cry and cry without stopping yourself or holding your breath, just let it out, you might find that helps. You could probably cry for days and days and not get it all out but I think you need to do that. It helps to talk pretend your talking to someone. Your mother for instance and you could tell her how vulnerable she left you and how you needed to be protected... where was she? That sort of thing. And talking to your father as well, you probably have lots to tell him and get out.
I have to keep reminding myself that I must go through the pain in order to get to the other side of it. I'll remind you too. It isn't always going to hurt this bad or feel so empty. You're stronger than you could know. ((El)) \
My brain burns when I'm really upset. I thought it was sinus pain but it's from stress. It doesn't stay as long as yours has though. I hope you can cry and get some of relief. It helps me a lot sometimes.
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story continued:
Last year, the last year of high school, was very difficult for me. That summer I spent a week away from home in a gov'ment program. Getting away, let me see how oppressive my home environment was. I could not stand being there last year. For the last few years i focused on school and ignored everything. Then last year I became bothered by everything. F doesn't talk to us unless it is to tell us to clean something (and everyone prefers it that way). But when he would tell me to do something I would collapse, I was a nervous wreck last year. So there two big "events" last year of high school.
One was in the fall I had to drive to a college info. session. I didn't know I had to drive, I would have gotten directions but..anyway, I didn't know where to go and I was too scared to ask. I am trained to go automatically into fear when I am forced to perform around him. I was getting nervous and shaking involuntarily. I tried not to cry but the tears came. And the mocking came. And i was being goaded and it ended with me speeding on the road and yelling "that I hate you" (and i apolgized for that when i shoudn't have). And on the way back he said that he had tested me and i acted the way he expected, "you guys think I'm crazy, but all this stuff I do on purpose." after that event my body was ruined. I would get weakened at the slighest provocation for months after that. This event was like the past. basically, I would have solve to math problems and when I would get them wrong I would get scarred at what would happen to me and the threats (burn you with an iron, or beat you) would come. I couldn't cry because then I would be mocked and laughed at and screamed at even more. But the tears always came and I would hate myself for it. I would hate myself because I was being weak like he said. i remember in 5th grade F saying that I could be a prostitute because I'm so stupid, but then I would be stupid to count the money. I remember him putting me in front of the mirror and telling me to look how pathetic I am (I was crying there was snot on my face). I now remember having to repeat that ("I'm sorry and pathetic). He would have certain words to use (you're sorry... others words meaning worthless. F had a dark closet phase where we had to stand in dark closets with our noses touching the wall.
I would say that second grade to fifth grade were exceptional bad. In the third grade I was mocked/harrassed/threathned/tortured/belittled ALL day over spelling words. And the M was there for most of it. I think she told him to stop. (It's like she lets him a little fun, but not too much). Then he stopped and I remember playing at the dollhouse with middle sister and a friend. then M leaves for work at 5pm (she works from 5pm-11pm). And then the torture started again. except this time I got the worst beating of my life. I was threatened all day with a beating with the belt buckle. And that beating went on forever, and I was screaming, but eventually i stopped, the belt didn't sting anymore, it was just a dull pain. (I don't know if he used the belt buckle.) I saw my leg split open, it just opened up. I still have the scar. Then F stops beating me and carries me to the bathroom and puts me in the tub. I think he bandaged the wound that night. the next morning I had flowers and candy. And my M drops me at school and tells me not to tell anyone. I told her that he beat me with the buckle and she says "he didn't beat you with the buckle. So to this day, i don't know what to believe or what happened. I thought that the flowers were a gesture of sympathy, but as my sister says, it was so i wouldn't tell anyone about what happened. he probably did bandaged the leg that night so M wouldn't see how bad it was. I remember being mad at M for just leaving to go to work. I remember feeling betrayed, like what made you think this was over? Why would you trust me with him? The next day at school I was shaking.
Okay, back to last year.
The second "event" I like to call the computer incident. it was January 2006. F was telling other siblings to stop IM and chatting with friends online. Middle sister ignored this for weeks. One night (midnight) I heard a crash from the den. I go look and F has pulled the computer out of the wall and S is holding her wrist in pain. M is there. I say that f pulling the computer out of the wall was stupid. F hears and come out saying "what, stupid like you?" And I was on edge the whole year, so I started to walk away. Then F starts with the jeering/mocking etc. ANd I snapped. And i screamed at him to shut up, just shut up. And here memory gets fuzzy. I think S and i ganged up on him and M was standing behind us. I think S was asking why M always agrees with F. then there was verbal fight between F and S and I. Then f says to M that "you have turned them against me!' And I saw that you have done that yourself. I think he might have hit M. Then S and I jump on him and start fighting. i remember getting up in his face. F calls us "harpies". Then f says that "i have made you what you are, everything you are today is because of me?" I was like "So you made me?" F says: "yes, I made you."
Then S and I were in bed (we shared a room) later on that night. And then M comes in and asks "how could we just go to sleep after something like that". S gets mad at M and says we have been dealing with this our whole lives (something to the effect of where the f*ck have you been?). then M turns to me and says I am to never talk to my father that way again (saying Shut up). i'm like, whatever...M and S continue to yell, F comes to the door and stands behind M (like M is protecting his honor or something). Then youngest S comes out of her room.
What I remember next: me standing across from F, F trying to stare me down, me staring right back. F pokes me in the chest in a demeaning way. And I say "Don't touch me. Don't touch me". F says "what, I can't touch you???" Are proceeds to wrap his hand around my throat (to prove he can). and I flip out I start attacking him. I fell back and broke the dresser, and I was kicking and hitting and stuff. M was screaming, Little S was crying. And apparently S was in the fray too because when I was recalling this in an email she said she chipped her tooth. then the phone rings. M says its the neighbors telling us to simmer down now. Ha. F gets up and is determined to put me in my place says: "I know what you're capable of and tells everyone about how I fell apart in the driving event in October. this shamed me and made me quit, which was good for F. Then F proceeds to tell everyone what their faults are. He always labels people's faults (just projection) and criticizes them for it. So M lies a lot (again projection, who lies more than a person to lies to himself? of course she deceives herself also). Little S is a slob, S cares too much for popular culture and I need to "learn to live in the present." I wanted ask him what HIS fault was and why he has the right to label anyone, but I didn't I was scared.
Then the next morning the family went furniture shopping. HHAAAAHHAhah. I laugh every time I say that! Its funny. I was told by M to humble myself for my behavior. And I did. I was actually ashamed by my behvior. An i was subservient and and careful around F. Now I hate that I did that. I actually felt sorry for my behavior, but I thought he felt sorry for his behaivor. Now i know that he never felt sorry for his behavior. Me being subservient was only mending his bruised ego. S on the other hand, didn't act like she felt sorry at all. M got mad at her for this. I respect S for that. I think S has understood the family dynamic better than I have. S was always mad at M for staying. I was never mad at M until recently. I liked M because M was the only one who would tell me that I was worth something. But now I am mad at M. For days after this "episode" I was shaking and on edge. I broke down and started crying around M asking why he had to put his hands around me neck? i said don't touch me, which had to be violated. then M says (while crying) "what you don't want people to touch you?" I can't even process how demented that comment is.
The pet dog runs and hides when F walks in the room. The dog used to run away people yelled at each other. Then the dog would run away when people merely talked to one another. Now the dog runs when f enters the room and others are in it. She used to hide under the computer area at my feet (because I was the safe one, I stayed out of the fray) but ever since the computer incident she runs in my room and cowers under the bed. That poor dog. Anyway the ttension builds in the house then it explodes in an "incident" of the type explained above. But the computer incident was the only time we attacked (physically and verbally) F. Its like tension grows until it can't be ignored. I feel that I'm the one who is forced to bring it out. I think I get experimented on, the other siblings get to sit back and take the easy route.
I wonder this: I wonder what M anf f think the future holds. What do they think 5 years will be like from now. By then little S will be 18 and leaving, S would be in college. Do they think any of us will come and see them or talk to them? M acts like I'm just some bad person for cutting out the whole family, but does she really think 'm alone in that? Does she the other two won't do the same thing? I resent that ai am the first born nd get blamed for every action I take if I was in the middle it would be easier. S graduates next year, then she will be gone. The last one is 13, will have to spend 5 years in that house.
And through it all M still stays (I even sent her NPD resources, which she says she read). She will stay long after kids are gone. The perfect punishment for F would be for everyone to go NC on him. But M will never do that. They feed on one another. and they deserve each other. M said on the phone the day I went NC, "I would get in so many fights with F over the way he talked to you kids." And I asked her why it had to be that way anyway. Why do have to be spoken to like we are trash in the first place? Why did you put up with any of it? Why did we have to put up with it? Why didn't you just leave? Oh I was a different person back then trying to get my life together, i was different back then. I couldn't remember how she was back then. She was like "you guys don't remember all the fights I had with him over you kids." I don't. I asked her when he started treating us like we were trash/ No answer.
She said on the phone to someone that he never held us when we were young, that he never wanted kids anyway. My first memory of him was probably preschool (age 4) and it involves fear. I distinctly recall probably at age 7 wondering who this person was screaming in my face, and why doesn't he just go away? And were always told that you're F loves you. "he loves you why can't you see it?" More mind games from M, who has to convince yourself that F really does love the offspring. m would get mad at me when I was sad last year.. and this year when I went home I got, "remember how you used to be, you're not like that anymore. You're okay now.
I had no self esteem back then. I would walk with my head down, kids at school would bully me. One girl slapped me in the face with her friend watching to prove that she could. I waned to tell her to stop but I figured I deserved it anyway. I couldn't muster up the self respect to keep her from hitting me. M took me to see psychiatrist in 5th grade, i went for 2 days. And only talked about how S made fun of me (she did). I think M implied ( or I understood that I couldn't mention F). I hated myself so much. Looking back I realize that I never lived I realize that I was floating or disassociating the whole time, or living in books. In fifth grade the old male teacher also hated me and attacked me. I don't know why. He didn't like me. And I wished him dead so long, he eventually did die and we had a substitute teacher for half the year. Good times. Good times.
I probably don't have self esteem now, I don't now. I don't know. I see how I am becoming Narcisstic myself. i am becoming Narcisstic. I have a lot of traits. I have to compare myself and be better than people. I have to have things perfect. I'm a shell. But I never noticed all these years,. Coming to college made me see how empty I am. I knew something was wrong with me. I don't what whats wrong with me. I used to know I had low self esteem. Now I don't know there's nothing. I don't "fel" myself or something. I'm not really here at all. When people are in conversation around me or even when I am in conservation, its like I'm floating on the outside. I realized in April that I don't think of people as multifaceted, complex beings. I can't because I see myself as a multifaceted being. This is a Narcissitic trait. I don't even feel fractured. I feel nothing at all, when it comes to "me". I don't even know what "feeling self means". F has turned me into him. I have become what f is. I don't understand love, or what the big deal is. I don't see why it matters. I don't see how its important.This is another N trait. I am just as empty as he is. This makes me so sad. I have no soul.There is nothing there.
My life is full of so many cruel ironies, especially my name. F named me. There was difficulty in me being born almost killed M (foreshadowing) there was a twin but the other one died. SO F named me Estee, which is esteem, without the m-for "someone who thinks highly of themselves".Which is just too much irony for me.
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El,
Your post is so emotional, you are NOT empty.
You definitely are not a narcissist. Narcissists think they are so perfect, that they would never even consider that they are 'imperfect' enough to have an illness! It sounds like you are depressed, and not bloody surprising.
It sounds, to me, as others have said, that you are getting stress migraines. I have treated them with homeopathy, which is great, side-effect free, and permanent. You might want to look into that, I don't know.
You say that you got picked on by your F because you're the eldest... it might have been because you're the most sensitive, most intelligent? N's hate that. They see that as a threat. Sibling order might not be so important, IMO.
Keep writing, please.
Janet
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El,
You are just now beginning to try to get a sense of who you are. I do not see you as narcissistic at all. You do have a soul and you do have a core. You can find yourself and we will help you. You have been in survival mode. You shut out but did not shut down. Your self is in hiding.
You say you don't understand love? Love does not hurt like that El. That is not love it is abuse from both your mother and father. You mom appears to be a co-victim. When I worked for a counseling agency way back when and the children came in the parent (which was most always the mother) was named co-victim. They knew what was going on in the home and the children were being abused but they went into a mode of trying to make every thing for a reason. They were flat out in denial of what was really going on. Your mom lives in denial.
So yes where was your mom when all this was going on? Why didn't she stop it? Because she is in a MAJOR denial and has become as sick as he is. She may have had her own issues when she came into the marriage before you were even born. No excuse but this may be the case. Were you betrayed? Oh hell ya! over and over again.
I remember him putting me in front of the mirror and telling me to look how pathetic I am (I was crying there was snot on my face). I now remember having to repeat that ("I'm sorry and pathetic). He would have certain words to use (you're sorry... others words meaning worthless. F had a dark closet phase where we had to stand in dark closets with our noses touching the wall.
This tactic one of many is why you may feel you have empty emotions and you feel nothing. Holy shit! feeling emotions meant torture, punishment for you. But I disagree with you El. I think you have plenty of emotions, feelings you just got use to hiding them. When they start to sneak out even in the form of Anger you get a headache. Having emotions means pain for you? I don't know really, but you think that maybe?
Your not your father El and your not your mother. You are telling. No secrets anymore. Now your freeing yourself of all those horrible memories that you had to keep all to yourself. This is a part of healing even though it does not seem like it right now. Lots of ups and downs in the process. Hang in there. Keep talking.
Love
Deb
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Hi El,
What CB says is right on. I read your post last night. I have a granddaughter your age. So my grandmotherly instincts were pouring out all over the place and I wished I could give you a big hug in real space and sit with you and cry and laugh, and cry and laugh the way I do with her sometimes. Cyberically (is there such a word???) I'm sending gentle grandma hugs and saying you are awesome, totally awesome.
tt
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I'm finding a counseling center in town today. Univeristy resources are inadequate.
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El, everything you did was to survive. This is really, really hard stuff to have lived through and to talk about now. I am so glad you are talking about it. That is such an important step. Even though it feels awful. Keep going even if it doesn't feel like anything will help you right now. You have already started the healing process. It may not feel good yet. But you have started and can keep going. It took a long time to get this chance. It will take some time to heal and become YOU. It will be worth whatever effort it takes to get the therapy and support you need now.
Thank you for sharing with us here.
Love, Pennyplant
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CB,
What do you think my F is besides narcissistic?
I've been getting this weird pain in my ear today, maybe its sinus problems.
I have a question for the board:
In industrialized nations, like US, why do women continue to get married? It's not like other societies where women don't have a choice in the matter (and even they do, they could kill themselves). It is obvious why a man would want to marry, but I don't see what could be in it for a female. I would never do that to myself-chain myself legally to another human being, and a man at that. I have seen the fruits of that labor
It was brought to my attention this year that I don't like men. I'm extra cold to them. I don't even do it on purpose. I've JUST noticed this. I get mad at my friends for talking about boys or having boyfriends, I roll my eyes when people talk about marriage. I try to avoid classes with male professors; I judge male professors more harshly. (Their courses better be amazing...). A lot of small thins like that. I think its a hatred.
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El,
Who could blame you? A lot of girls severely abused by father figures grow up to hate men.
What's more likely to happen to you, imo, as strong and intelligent as you are, is that years into the future you'll look back at yourself at age 19, and at human beings in general, with compassion. That will be from the perspective of one who has healed her wounds and is wise beyond imagining now.
You can hate 'em.
Just don't hit 'em.
hugs
Hops
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Marriage is an economic institution, as well as whatever else we believe in. It is hard to get past economics even in such a wealthy culture as we have here in the US.
Maybe some women's studies courses would be interesting to you as well as empowering, since you're in college now. I minored in
Women's Studies and it was amazing just what those eight or so courses could teach me. Often the courses echoed what I was learning in my traditional classes and made the lessons have even more of an impact. Resonance I guess is the word I'm looking for here. That was about 15 years ago and I still think of what I learned then and am able to apply it in my life today.
Something to think about.
Pennyplant
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Good News!
I found a good therapist, a psychologist with abuse experience, that I trust. I told her my story and the first session is Monday.
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That's FANTASTIC news, El!
Keep us posted! (Pun intended...)
yay for you, girl.
Hops
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El,
That is great news.. Happy for you!!!
Deb
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I want to thank everyone on this board for giving me advice. If it weren't for your advice I would still be without a therapist.
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very very very very glad for you el
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
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WOW EL. You give me strength and inspiration when I want to give up. You are going forward - so brave - and I think of you,often.
Keep writing. I think that we all feel such a kinship with you
Love Ami
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Yay Yay! El such good news. I really needed some good new about now: ) So glad for you! How did you find her and what did she say?
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Wonderful news, El. I'm really pleased for you. I'm sure it will help a lot - just take it slowly. It doesn't have to all come out in the first session!
Janet
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lighter,
I went to the Women's Studies department and asked for off-campus abuse resources. They told me to go to the Women's Center and talk to the director. She wasn't there, I left a copy of my first post with my email on it. She emailed me with a few counseling centers. i picked the one that looked the most interesting. And its close to campus-I can walk there. Here is the website:
http://www.karunacounseling.com/
It is female-only, I believe. And the environment is very personal and relaxed. It is run in a house and there is a code to get in the door that each therapist gives to her patient. It has a very private atmosphere. I walked there yesterday, and sat outside on the steps until someone came in ( I didn't have the code). I went in with her and talked to her therapist, who agreed to talk with me after her appointment. So I talked to her an hour later, and she is a good match for me. She seemed shocked by my story and thinks I have post traumatic stress. She is willing to work around my financial difficulties until I get university insurance.
It is weird to me that so many people are shocked by my upbringing. I don't really know how atypical it is. I know it was not normal, but I don't really know how others grew up to compare. How did others grow up. Sometimes I want to spy on people to see what it looks like. Then maybe I will see truly how weird and sick that house is.
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Hi El,
I'm so happy for you, and glad you found someone to work with. I'm sure this will help you so much.
T
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El,
FULL of joy for you.
You did it, girl. You walked yourself right out of numbness and fought for your own healing.
This is going to be work, hon. But you can do it, and it is going to take you to a future that's a thousand times better.
:)
Hops
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El,
It sounds like you have found yourself a good therapist - well done. It will be easier now you have someone to talk to face to face. It'll be hard work, but it'll be well worth it.
Janet
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Great news El! Glad to hear it!
You're on your way now!
Sela
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lighter,
I went to the Women's Studies department and asked for off-campus abuse resources. They told me to go to the Women's Center and talk to the director. She wasn't there, I left a copy of my first post with my email on it. She emailed me with a few counseling centers. i picked the one that looked the most interesting. And its close to campus-I can walk there. Here is the website:
http://www.karunacounseling.com/
It is female-only, I believe. And the environment is very personal and relaxed. It is run in a house and there is a code to get in the door that each therapist gives to her patient. It has a very private atmosphere. I walked there yesterday, and sat outside on the steps until someone came in ( I didn't have the code). I went in with her and talked to her therapist, who agreed to talk with me after her appointment. So I talked to her an hour later, and she is a good match for me. She seemed shocked by my story and thinks I have post traumatic stress. She is willing to work around my financial difficulties until I get university insurance.
It is weird to me that so many people are shocked by my upbringing. I don't really know how atypical it is. I know it was not normal, but I don't really know how others grew up to compare. How did others grow up. Sometimes I want to spy on people to see what it looks like. Then maybe I will see truly how weird and sick that house is.
I think it's more typical than you think, for children to be raised with abuse. I also think you can see how this would go unreported and/or disregarded. Look how hard it's been for you to get help and you've been working very hard at telling your story. Had you been in a weaker place you wouldn't have gotten to that therapist. You'd be curled up on the bathroom floor still and no one would know.
I think there are lots of people out there who haven't been diligent enough to make themselves heard.
I don't think anyone wants to know or deal with this, in the first place. DENIAL. It's easier to ask, "what's wrong with the victim?" What did they do? Why would they have stayed or put up with or not called the police or told a family member. WHY would the mother allow that? No one wants to believe PARENTS, in general, can't be trusted not to eat their young bc then society is obligated to step in and that's uncomfortable for society. Everyone has their own dragons to sleigh and all that.
It's just plain IMPROBABLE, right? People tend to dismiss the improbables outright. And that's just unfortunate. I'm dealing with it right now and society has some very warped ideas of women. Esp abused women.
Thanks for sharing your journey and resources. I think it may help others who come to this board. Don't you? In the meantime, count your blessings and expect ups and downs. It's "normal" and if anyone has PTSD it's going to be you.
Be kind to yourself. We're here for you and there's usually someone on the board to respond quickly. Lot's of wise maternal women here who know about your struggles. You'll get through. You'll be stronger for all the pain and difficulties that come. I promise.
((El)) Stay strong. I'm amazed at your strength so far.
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el: The one thing you have over so many of us is the realization of your abuse. So many of us have lived with our Dysfunction well into our 40s And 50s. The fact that you see your life for what it is at such a young age means you can deal with your issues and live a much better long term life!
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This is wonderful, El. Karuna Counseling sounds like just the right place for you. I would probably like it too!
I agree that your upbringing is probably not so singular as people would have you believe, or would have themselves believe. This is just really hard stuff to face. It gets to what your soul is worth. Most people can't face it. We here, on this board, are people who can't NOT face it.
I'm happy for you!
Pennyplant
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bean,
Today, I'm really good, actually. I like and trust my therapist (so far). But I haven't started therapy yet.
I don't "fear a relationship with a man" I just don't want it. I never understood why all the girls would talk about boys . I don't understand it at all. In fact, I'm repulsed by them at a very deep level. I think it's cognitive thing involving neuron paths, neurotransmitters and synapses. This is speculation, but I just might hate them all at a chemical level. (I prefer the cognitive branch of psychology). I became aware of this in the last few months. For example: one day I was walking across the university lawn and I saw two people laying on the grass, their bodies parallel to the ground, and they were leaning on each other. I didn't see their sexes but I think they were male and female. The sight of them made me sick to my stomach, I felt the bile creeping up my esophagus. I had to look away or I might have vomited (which would have been embarrassing). I was shocked at the intensity of my reaction. Normally when I see things like this or hear people talk about dates or kissing or sex or anything like that, I can't relate. I normally just roll my eyes and wonder what would possess them into these activities. But mostly I ignore such conversation.
It is no big deal really. The issue is this: I am only just now aware of this dislike. But I can't control it, my body and mind do it instinctively, and even when I try to be nice to them, I can't. I know in theory that all men aren't bad, I reckon alot are actually quite nice. I know it is wrong to have a huge and all-encompassing prejudice like this. But my body reacts that way. And I truly have no desire to change this. BUT I do have male acquiescences since I like to play videogames. They are good for that.
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El: I can relate to that urge to vomit. I think you've been in a survival mode so long you can't begin to contemplate the complexities of a normal man woman relationships. The incongruity of what you know about men (your father) and what you see in the world making you vomit makes complete sense to me.
You're aware of it and you seem very rational about it. Just waiting with it and not making assumptions about it seems very logical. At some point I think knowledge and healing will help you unravel that mystery. I'm glad you're aware and able to examine it without letting yourself become defeated or overwhelmed by the feelings.
I think you're better off alone and focused on YOU anyway. Adding romantic involvments, esp the ones where we invite abusive men, can be a catalyst for healing, however painful.
For my part, I think you have catalyst enough in your horror show father. You're focusing on you right now. I'm glad that you can, quite frankly.
Figuring out your FOO will help you make good decisions with regard to inviting ANYONE into your life in the future. Don't fret just be aware of your feelings and keep learning and growing. I have a lot of confidence in your ability to overcome and build yourself up.
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lighter,
What is FOO?
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FOO is family of origin,El.
The fact that you like video games cracks me up. I have two boys who looove video games and I always hear that 'video game noise" upstairs.
El, I had such a strong reaction when you said about seeing that couple made you want to vomit.In fact, I am dizzy right now.I have been getting dizzy as these emotions come up. My father was the co dependent. he was not actively abusive,but would not stand up.
I started having a phobia of throwing up when I was in the second or third grade. I was panicky about this all the time. I started having panic attacks in seventh grade where I would sit in my chair and just tremble. I never told anyone because I thought that I was crazy and I was ashamed .
I think that it was my mother who so repulsed me and I did not know what to do with it.My mother ,to me, was the most disgusting , revolting person. I felt to her like you would feel when you see a snake.There is something that is sickening about a snake(I think) and it gives you a repulsive type of sensation..
I have not gotten to the bottom of my feelings. It is slow,but every breakthrough is so wonderful that it is like a trip to Hawaii. I always felt really numb and unreal. Now,I feel more real and I so appreciate it.Also, I got my love of reading back and I just am so happy to read a big,fat book and forget about everything else. There are a lot of things that I want to reclaim and they will come, I think.
There are many joys out there for you. You are doing great. You have a whole board of people rooting for you Love Ami
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el,
Glad you're hanging around with us on the board :)
Is substance abuse or alcoholism at play in your FOO? I've read a little on physical abuse and it appears that there may be a link between physical abuse and substance abuse. As always, I don't want to be invasive about anything you aren't ready to talk about. Take your time.
tt
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I had my first therapy session today. My therapist wants me to get depression medication. I did some reading on my own last night, and the book mentioned Dissociative identity Disorder. And I could possibly have that. The therapist says that I could possibly have it, but she doesn't know yet. I just want to be diagnosed.
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teartracks,
My father's mother was an alcoholic. His sister is a drug addict with one delinquent son and another with mental retardation and cerebral palsy. He does not drink.
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Dear El,
Do you feel better after seeing the therapist? I am not telling you what to do about medication. I would just like to pose that I could have been diagnosed "dissociative disorder" because I always felt 'numb" and unreal. However, after healing a little bit, I feel much more real. Things are not written in stone.
The way that I look at it, anyone would "dissociate" with your F. I guess what I am saying is don't think that you are in a stagnant box where you will have that "disorder" forever. You can heal of whatever "name" you are called. This is my opinion. Others see things differently as biological etc. I see that you went a "little nuts' from trying to survive a "major wacko". So I just did not want you to think that you are stuck with a mental health "title" on you forever.(IMO)
I am waiting to hear about what is happening with the therapy .as well as your school etc.
You are doing so well- step by step . As the "Stooges said,"Step by step. inch by inch,mile by mile"
Love and a Hug Ami
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I had my first therapy session today. My therapist wants me to get depression medication. I did some reading on my own last night, and the book mentioned Dissociative identity Disorder. And I could possibly have that. The therapist says that I could possibly have it, but she doesn't know yet. I just want to be diagnosed.
Hey, El. What meds is she thinkin you should take? And, how did you feel about that first session?
It sounds like you're anxiouse to get dx'd but, it'll take a little time to sort things out.
I'm glad the T didn't try to slap a lable on you and have done with. She sounds like she wants to help you figure it out and get it right when it happens. What was your feeling about it?
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Hi El,
I remember when I first entered therapy it was almost sacred, to discover that kind of wise and deep and non-punitive listening. I have no ideas what labels were first applied, other than anxiety, which I knew. But I know I must've talked for 100 hours before I knew her last name... (kidding).
I remember too that it felt private. To build my sense of trust with the therapist, I needed to truly respect and have a boundary around that hour. I think that sense of Mine All Mine, in the sense that it was about my healing first and last (and to entertain others' curiosity not at all) was important. With a couple close friends I did share insights from certain sessions--sometimes a ton of it--but it was understood between all of us that it was up to the therapee (as opposed to the manatist) to bring it up.
All I'm saying is that I hope you won't feel obligated to report on therapy sessions here or anywhere if you need some time to let it become your own private healing relationship.
Hope you keep on posting and keep sharing or asking whatever you want to, though.
Hope that made sense!
Hops
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Man's Search for Meaning
by Victor Frankl
PERFECT suggestion, imo, Bean...
love to youse both,
Hops