Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: write on April 05, 2004, 03:57:25 PM
-
Here's some info on Myers-Briggs mentioned below.
http://www.personalitypage.com/home.html
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp ( free online test )
-
write,
Thanks for the links. I LOVE this stuff! :)
Question to the group:
Have any of you had your MBTI change over time?
I evaluated as an INTP twice and was extreme on I, N, and T. However, I suspect I am actually an "F" but masked it (even to myself) because of my parents.
If you have a story about how your type evolved over time, I'd love to hear it!
-
So Christy you're a rational, I'm a guardian, ESTJ.
Years ago when I first got into this stuff I read a lot of Tim La Haye and he only did the 4 temperament thing. He didn't got into 12 or 16 with dominant and subordinate strengths.
Back then I was what he called sanguine, or penguin as friends used to joke. I was so sanguine, with strong choleric undertones. After many depressing times I've changed, now using the M-B tests I'm happily ESTJ. Still as extrovert as ever, but the thinking has definitely taken front seat and all those sub-categories of judging as well.
Where does that knowledge take me. No-where really, I'm me, ever-changing, ever-learning- ever-growing. I don't accept static-ability thinking. But where I find the temperaments are INVALUABLE is in understanding reasons for conflict and conflict resolution. Such an essential tool here.
Thanks for the post, it made me think of some of my old buddies and how we used to analyse each other mercilessly, each believing our particular personality mix was superior. We had such fun wasting hours pulling each others temperaments apart. I still have contact with a few. Your prompted me to catch up with them. Thanks again.
Guest
-
I was a borderline T/F and definitely a J when I was at work but I think it was the influence of school/Uni/legal training which created the T and maybe the J in me.
I was definitely an ENFJ at the time of taking the test as immediately prior to that I produced a PR package for my area of work which referred to the company as being 'responsive and responsible' - it was the tagline. Guess what the shortform description of an ENFJ is! You guessed it! 'Responsive and responsible' :shock: Scary just how much of myself I put into that work. No boundaries as usual - I was 'it'; 'it' was me. It was hard when I left.
Motherhood created another massive change. The image I have in my mind is of a sponge that had been tightly buckled with belts. Motherhood meant that I was 'unbound'!! Boing! It took some getting used to. In fact, I felt quite ashamed to be this P person (it means that you don't finish things and are messy!!) for quite some time. I'm still trying to get my head round how you can be a P AND organised.
But I'm sure part of the 'being bound' (J) was to do with my ACON background. I learnt to be methodical, really methodical about everything. Start at the beginning and watch every step of the way so as not to get anything 'wrong'. Silly girl - nothing was ever perfect enough anyway. Waste of time. But it was my means of survival. Hence the J.
But now I'm a happy ENFP - back where I started in life!! The only problem with E/NF is needing to be 'with' people and also being overwhelmed by them. One of the 'Super-sensitives'. I'm working on that. :)
R
ENFP - Enthusiastic, insightful, innovative, and tireless in pursuit of new possibilities!
-
Hi Everybody!
Well, this is fun! Next we'll be doing sun signs :D I'm an INFP, definitely an idealist, which means I feel like throwing up whenever I'm hit over the head with brutal reality. So I spit up or withdraw or both. Sometimes I get confused if I am the way I am because of my M-B profile, or being ACON. Perhaps one just magnifies the other.
I tried to morph into an E, can be very outgoing and friendly, but have to withdraw when overwhelmed.
OK, going to withdraw now! :D Cheers, Seeker
-
So Christy you're a rational, I'm a guardian, ESTJ.
Years ago when I first got into this stuff I read a lot of Tim La Haye and he only did the 4 temperament thing. He didn't got into 12 or 16 with dominant and subordinate strengths.
Back then I was what he called sanguine, or penguin as friends used to joke. I was so sanguine, with strong choleric undertones. After many depressing times I've changed, now using the M-B tests I'm happily ESTJ. Still as extrovert as ever, but the thinking has definitely taken front seat and all those sub-categories of judging as well.
Where does that knowledge take me. No-where really, I'm me, ever-changing, ever-learning- ever-growing. I don't accept static-ability thinking. But where I find the temperaments are INVALUABLE is in understanding reasons for conflict and conflict resolution. Such an essential tool here.
Thanks for the post, it made me think of some of my old buddies and how we used to analyse each other mercilessly, each believing our particular personality mix was superior. We had such fun wasting hours pulling each others temperaments apart. I still have contact with a few. Your prompted me to catch up with them. Thanks again.
Guest
Hey Seeker, you cracked me up with your intro, so I had to go back to my post and add.
Me - Guardian ESTJ
Element - earth
E Zodiac - year of the dog
W - Zodiac - Virgo
Tendencies - Pursuing knowledge truth and loyalty and being and all round pain in the arse most of the time.
Hmmh can't think of anything else? :D
Just having a bit of fun.
Guest.
-
bye
-
Wow. Going through the online test was like taking a personal inventory on how much has changed! Very exciting stuff for me. When I first took one of these tests back in high school, I was whatever an extremely geeky introvert would be. Emphasis on extreme. Hmm. Or maybe emphasis on geek. :wink: Now I'm and ENFJ? Okay, a "slightly expressed E", but wow. Never thought I'd get this far. :D :D
One of the questions really struck me as I answered it, too.
You like giving instructions
You know what's weird? I just realized in answering this that don't actually like giving instructions :shock: - but I think a recent as a year ago I was always panicked at the idea of NOT giving instructions if I thought I had a handle on things while others were strugging. This year has been great, though, because not only is my boss helping me find better ways of delegating, but the project I'm on has somewhat lax deadlines, which has given me the luxury of watching people learn things in their own time - without the world coming to an end (what made me think it would?).
Thanks for this thread, Write.
Scorpio Wildflower
-
I took this test years ago and did it again just now. Surprise, surprise I'm exactly the same. An INFJ, same as you Jac!
I wondered whether it would come out the same because I feel like a different person but, no, it's the same old me.
-
I found learning about being INFJ a wonderful spring-board, I got to understand why I so often pile into situations like I'm on a crusade and why I continue with things long after they are right or healthy for me, out of duty.
There is a rigidity in me which I never recognised before reading the INFJ stuff.
I'm learning to tone that down now, and be gentler with myself and other people.
I don't believe in astrology, but if it gives insights into personal growth I'll try anything!
-
Hey, this is getting exciting!
How weird that three (four if you count me) of us have significant Scorpio leanings (we're secretive, or at least, very private a/k/a voiceless?) 8) I didn't believe in astrology either until I finally figured out what my rising sign was (the Scorpio part), because I act nothing like my sun sign. (And I credit the N in INFP for pushing me to figure this out! :D ) Turns out this is exactly right on the mark. So to find out your rising sign (which sign is on the horizon when you are born) you have to know what time you were born, as well as the date. Go to astro.com for more fun. (It's free). If it holds up for Jung, count me in! God made the stars and planets, too, so why not? :D
The personality types pages are really helpful. I hung out there a lot when figuring out and accepting my reticence. Ugly duckling describes my childhood to a "tee". Anyway, any reference like this is great in creating more self-awareness. The astrology stuff helped me to be more objective about "blind spots" I have (things I don't want to admit to).
May the force be with you! Seeker
-
I took the myers-briggs test many years ago and I was an INFJ and it has helped me to realize that I am not weird, I just have a different personality then other people. The feeling of other peoples pain and suffering always gets to me and is ususally my down fall. I have found in the the past year or so that being around my Ex-N for 8 years changed me some how, I am not sure if it was for the better or that I am just bitter but I still love to help people and I enjoy being the person everyone comes to for a listening ear. I like the world around us even if there are awful people in it and I like my world too, the one I go to when I need to recharge and get away from people, ususally the awful ones I like to get away from. This was fun! Have a great night!
Kelly
-
Hello all. I’m feeling a little confused today and a tad ..er.. unintelligent? There are some clever, perceptive people here and I feel – not up to scratch! Well, there you are, that’s me today.
Sorry write for flying at you about that quotation. I thought you were saying ‘stop’ to Rosencrantz. Then I realised today I was saying stop too (‘realised’ gives me too much credit, R told me, thanks R).
Anyway, given my answers today (and of course I don’t trust my answers) apparently I’m an INFJ too with Jacmac, Karin, Write and kelly8893.
INFJ
Introverted Intuitive Feeling Judging
Strength of the preferences %
89 56 11 1
I kid you not, as a child and teenager, I always thought I was an ‘extrovert’. I may have been told this, I was certainly encouraged to be one. 89% I? I think that’s just how I feel today isn’t it?
But I have trouble with these tests. I don’t understand some of the questions! Correction: I have a lot of trouble with these tests. Here are some of my reactions to questions. Anyone think/feel the same or similar?
You think that almost everything can be analyzed (well yes! Everything can be studied in some way or other can’t it? But what does ‘analysed’ mean here? Does it mean studied and then some conclusion come to? In which case no, you can study but without any result. Odd question?)
You consider the scientific approach to be the best (compared to what? Intuition? Magic? Faith? And ‘approach’ to what exactly? Approach to life? Approach to how to boil a kettle? So I said no, because science is just tool and it’s lacking, always will be, but I don’t know what a better alternative is.)
You are easily affected by strong emotions (well yes, if I feel a strong emotion, I am affected. Isn’t everyone? Does the question mean: you often feel strong emotions? I don’t know, compared to other people! And what are ‘strong’ emotions? Envy? Pride? Or love and hate? Is it the strength of any emotion, or the type of emotion?)
You feel involved when watching TV soaps (I don’t watch them so I said no. But I cry at films. But I do take questions very literally. Presumably there’s a reason why they ask soaps instead of films?)
You feel that the world is founded on compassion (whoah! I don’t get this one at all. I don’t understand. Is it asking if we manage not to blow ourselves off the earth because we have compassion? Or that there is some external compassionate force that keeps us here? I guess it’s the ‘founded on’ that I don’t understand. Like there’s a reason behind ‘the world’ and I strongly feel that there is no reason. Big emotional response to this question! I don’t feel the world is founded on anything at all and the question implies it might be?! Except maybe the world comes from – is founded on - chaos and chance – the Dice Man isn’t silly but I thought folk would think so R…..)
You think that everything in the world is relative (I was worn down by this time. So I said yes. Otherwise it’s absolute. But it probably is absolute! And just what does ‘everything in the world’ mean anyway? Rocks and stones? They are both relative and absolute!)
Strict observance of the established rules is likely to prevent attaining a good outcome (but this was easy and I wondered what everyone else thought of this question. My answer is yes, of course, isn’t it self-evident? Man makes rules, man is fallible therefore rules should be broken. However, if gravity decides to fail one day, there won’t be a good outcome for us will there? Isn’t this a black and white question? I felt like I was being laughed at by this question!) I’ve just read this question again and it’s driving me nuts. Take “Thou shalt not kill each other”. If we observed that, wouldn’t that be a good outcome? It’s another ‘it depends’ answer.
So – am I a nutcase or simply don’t know/understand enough? I wish I knew what I’m really like. I don’t even trust the notion of personality – not really, when I perceive my simple hormones turning me into an axe-wielding maniac from time to time. Or when I know that I do certain things precisely because of my past. I guess personality is who I am now? Thanks for reading and thanks write for the thread. P
-
You make me smile as always, Portia. And no - you realised, totally, you, yourself. I think I know what you are referring to but I was struggling in a totally different direction. I'd have liked to have kept the kudos ('making a difference' :wink:) but fair's fair! :-)
Just a partial answer for you about the Myers Briggs - there are lots of mini-tests available on the internet but Myers and Briggs would turn in their respective graves if they knew. It takes quite a bit of time and energy to train to administer these tests. I wouldn't get anywhere if I tried to 'do' it on myself. Plus you're advised to answer the questions very quickly ie don't think too much. It does work that way best, answering the multiple choice questions they give you - it's about preferences between alternatives rather than outright value judgements.
The bit I found most helpful was the Introvert/Extravert distinction. Dorothy Rowe presents the theory that in every marriage there is always one of each (tho could be anywhere on the scale) never ever two the same. Yet, we have such different and opposing views of 'Life' that we often end up in misunderstandings and conflict.
My H is off the scale for I; I'm off the scale for E. (Great for knowing who I am; discerning by contrast). He knows I need his company; I know he needs his quiet alone space. So I don't worry about him being 'isolated' AND I don't think he needs what I need - the company of people. It means I don't expect him to want to go socialising. Rats!
Just to really confuse things tho - he's a sociable introvert and I'm a shy extravert. Another reason for getting it done professionally if you want to use it as a serious tool for self-discovery or understanding others in relation to yourself.
We both read the Dorothy Rowe books not long after we got married - made a difference in terms of tolerance, recognition and understanding!!
When I want to explain it in a nutshell, I use her 'desert island' analogy (or Steve McQueen with his baseball in The Great Escape). Who, out of the two of you would be happy on a desert island? My H would be happy as Larry. Put me in isolation and I 'die'. That's the difference.
Fascinating stuff!!! Thanks for letting me share!!!
R
PS Re the concept of personality - the Community Psychiatric Nurse left me with my mouth hanging open (pre-NPD-awareness) when she said about my mother - you won't change someone's personality...(we were talking about my mother's negative way of reacting to the world and I was talking in NLP mode - change your mind, change your life). :shock: I still haven't quite moved forward from that point. It's what we come into the world with and what makes us 'who we are' - and the main reason why the same mother has kids who react in different ways to the same behaviour. Nurture has an impact but nature came first. 8)
PPS It really hurts not to know those intimate details of your life that really matter. Acknowledged and validated. R
-
Brilliant! Thanks R, I'm a sociable introvert - that's itIntrovert! This is going to take some getting used to. Even though it's obviously true, somehow I feel wildly happy to find a new label that fits me. Ain't that silly?
Thanks write for the thread and for getting me here! :D P
-
Hello again,
For another "take" on your MB profile, go to www.typelogic.com. It will give you another explanation or profile of your type, plus some fun stuff like famous people who share your type, as well as fictional characters! For some reason they go on and on about Moby Dick on the INFP page (yawn!) but the writeup and list are good.
Also, I had read that the difference between E and I wasn't necessary how many friends or how personable you are in a group, but how you recharge your batteries. This made tons of sense to me, since our culture (U.S. of A.) insists on glad-handing everyone and slamming our pals on the back. Hail-fellow-well-met! :roll: So I can yuck it up for a couple of hours (for an INFP that means smiling broadly while listening and sipping the chardonnay) and then head back to my cave to recover. That makes me an I, for sure.
This whole thread makes me smile (and Portia, you crack me up by analysing the test that supposed to analyze us :D ). I can just imagine all of us at a cocktail party with a mixer of MB cards to find similar/compatible types and then reciting a string of recovery acronyms. That's me over there rearranging the cheese cubes into a bust of Freud. What are you guys doing at this party? Refilling the glasses, helping the hostess in the kitchen, starting a conga line?
8) 8) 8) :shock: :D Seeker
-
Hi Portia,
I'm not an E after all, I want to sing: I'm an introvert after all - great!
If you’re an introvert and you know it, clap your hands. :D
If you’re an extrovert and you know it, clap your hands. :D
(Do you guys know the “Happy and You Know It” kid’s tune over in the UK?)
I took my little 1% E last night and I used it like a flashlight on the rest of my life, and you know what? I’m an E. I really truly am. I feel like singing it out, too. :D :D I’m an E who was stuffed in a duffle bag and made to think that my E-ness was bad. I’m just so dumb-struck right now with how powerful labels are, and how damaging they can be when you’re vulnerable and they’re determined by people who just don’t know you.
I think you’re right, R, that a true M-B test would be more complicated and rigorous, but this little one has given me a little more confidence to re-define myself. Or maybe un-define myself. :wink: :)
I want to thank you so much for sharing your confusions about those questions, Portia. I was going through similar mental flip-flops answering them, and I may come back and talk more about that later, but work beckons. Rrrg. Anyway, I just wanted to say that this is reminding me of a conversation I had over and over and over growing up that went roughly like this:
Me [tugging on some adult’s coat tails] – I don’t get it. What’s wrong with me? This doesn’t make any sense. People tell me I’m smart, but I don’t get it. (Of course, what I actually said on these occasions was so much more stuck in the muck than that).
Adult – Don’t be too hard on yourself. You’ll figure it out. Everyone struggles with this. It’s hard.
Me [now completely baffled] – If everyone struggles with this, why does it look so easy for everyone else? They don’t LOOK like they’re struggling. They’re not bugging everyone they can find for answers.
Adult – Most people just don’t talk about it. They hide the fact that they’re struggling.
Me [frustrated and confused to the point of tears] – But...if everyone is struggling – with the same things – why is it so hard to talk about it? If we’re really ALL going through this, why can’t we work on it together? And what’s wrong with me that I’m the only weirdo talking about this? (Let the downward spiral begin).
I’m starting to understand more about how important it is to be able to keep the important parts of you private and safe, instead of dangling them out in harm’s way (like Jacmac’s post about knowing when to step out into the street), but man was that frustrating.
Thanks again for sharing that. :D
Wildflower
-
...
-
I'm not an E after all, I want to sing: I'm an introvert after all - great!
LOL That's exactly how I felt when I discovered I was an E!! Such freedom!!!
Try www.theintrovertzcoach.com for more fun!!
Oh and what we choose to be doing at that party will naturally lump us together in our 'types'!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: I'll either be hiding in a big chair with a drink being my 'shy' side or at the door welcoming everyone in!!! But if you're all introverts you'll probably all go and hide from me - any more extraverts out there, please??? I need someone to play with! :wink:
R
-
lots of INFJ/P here then!
I suspected as much!!!
We're attracted to narcissists I fear, sensing their enormous potential...
Recognising the introvert/ extrovert thing in oneself is very liberating isn't it.
S'ok Portia (((((())))))))))
Don't worry if you don't 'get' the whole MBTI thing- it's like everything else, just a tool, and as someone pointed out Myers & Briggs ( a mother and daughter if I remember correctly ) would not have reduced it to such a simple test.
( interesting- conversely others have complicated their typology with enneagram detailing )
-
I took the test - result did not tell me anything I didn't already know about myself _ INTJ. Hope you guys won't kick me off for not having the F! I am a scientist, which I guess is consistant with this type. I value feelings but I have to say that rational thought and understanding are very important to me.
You are:
slightly expressed introvert
moderately expressed intuitive personality
moderately expressed thinking personality
moderately expressed judging personality
I am sure that I am an introvert, however I have found that sometimes this is confused with being shy. I am not shy (I outgrew it) but it is true that sometimes I just prefer to be alone!
It is interesting that one of the reasons why I was attracted to my H (who I now know is N) is that he is very outgoing and charismatic and on the surface seemed very expressive. However, I think he might be a ENTJ. Definately not F.
Anyway, very interesting!
pandora
-
I took the test and found I am INFJ and I too could have sworn I was an extrovert, but passsioned by my scorpio birthsign. -- surprise ....
The link Seeker gave us
www.typelogic.com
says we are in good company -- some famous INFJ's are:
Aristophanes
Chaucer
Goethe
Robert Burns, Scottish poet
Martin Van Buren
James Earl "Jimmy" Carter
Nathaniel Hawthorne, author, poet
Fanny Crosby, (blind) hymnist
Mother Teresa of Calcutta
Martin Luther King, Jr., civil rights leader, martyr
James Reston, newspaper reporter
Shirley McClain, actor (Sweet Charity, ...)
Michael Landon, actor (Highway to Heaven, Little House on the Prairie)
Tom Selleck, actor (Magnum, P. I., Mr. Baseball)
Oprah Winfrey, talk show host
Paul Stookey, folk singer (Peter, Paul and Mary)
Angela Lansbury, actor (Murder, She Wrote)
Richard Gere, actor (Pretty Woman, Sommersby)
Billy Crystal, actor, comedian
Carrie Fisher, actor (Star Wars)
-
Hi Write,
interesting- conversely others have complicated their typology with enneagram detailing
What's "enneagram detailing"? I tried looking it up but I was having trouble finding anything.
Wildflower
-
http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/enneagram.htm
http://www.enneagramcentral.com/
I like these people, I've been reading their stuff for some time.
I guess there's always a chance people will use type to beat themselves up so read this first! :wink:
http://www.enneagramcentral.com/een_e3.htm
I must admit I don't see my friends through 'type' eyes. In fact, I find it impossible to remember their 'type' tho I have asked to be reminded if something has puzzled me. But if you really already know 'who' you are, type can be very useful. If you don't, then it can be very confusing. Caveat emptor. :)
R
-
Add another to the INFP count.
I am struck by how many people said that they thought they were an introvert/extrovert and the profile said the opposite.
Pretty much anyone meeting me would say that I am an extrovert. I have been described that way my whole life. Most of the jobs that I have held involve being with many people. And I have enjoyed them too.
Yet I wasn't surprised at all to find that MB said I was an introvert because for me it really has always been.....okay, that was fun, interesting, enjoyable .... but now it's time to get back to the cave. Got to have that alone time.
I am Sagittarius with Scorpio rising, Gemini moon.
-
The other thing about introvert/extravert which I found very, very interesting is that the introverts go inside for their awareness and understanding of the world whereas extraverts go to the outside world for affirmation and confirmation.
And that the way forward for each is to go in the opposite direction. So Is should start getting input from the outside world while Es should believe in their own inner world.
Certainly fits my experience - anything you tell me is true; not so sure about what my inner experience tells me. I'll search the internet for confirmation of something being true but I'm the last one I would think of consulting!!!
R
-
So no more message board for you R! :wink: :wink: :) :wink:
This explains why you are so helpful with giving information, posting web-links etc etc and why I chuck my thoughts down and have big conversations with myself.
You see when I see you (or anyone) post a link, I think that they are giving part of themselves, something they value and have a good opinion of…and if it’s inappropriate, I think, what are they thinking of….but it ain’t like that is it? You’re reaching out, mixing..I found this so helpful (from teamtechnology, already lost who posted that but thank you!)
Extroversion - Introversion
social - private
expressive - quiet :?:
many - few
broad - deep
interaction - concentration
outward - inward
action before thought :!: - thought before action
Does this mean that E’s have more difficulty with anything to do with psychology? I get your comment about it doesn’t matter with your friends, you don’t think of them in these terms….but I probably would, if I had any friends!! :lol: LOL! Enough. P (I think I have a friend :D )
-
Hi everybody...the introvert is here!!! :lol:
Count me in as an INFJ..fascinating stuff and thanks for the link. Write, you're so right! ( pun!) Are we really that attracted to Ns because we see their potential..to then be taken around the block by them and dumped? Maybe so..but you know, your analysis of this I feel is highly accurate.
I'm part of a very small 1% of the population! 8) I'm a rarety! :? I'm complex! :shock: No me?
I'm not sure I needed to know all of this at this time in my life..honestly though, when I look at the description of INFJs, I fit right in..especially the part about knowing intuitively what is going on without having a great deal of experience and or education on a given subject..at least now I know i'm not that weird either.
I will venture to not let my 89% score on Introverted iNtuitiveness dominate my entire way of life, as I think it has both in the past and recently!
Write, i'm still thinking about the attraction to Ns though..and it worries me some. There is a potential love interest in my life at the present time who is complex and troubled to a degree...i've had a lot of "feelings" and "knowing" related to him..green lights and yellow lights and stop lights all at once. Can you relate to that? I haven't quite figured out if it is at all a good thing for me and am being careful not to let my own hang-ups get in the way. I'm spiraling a bit..downward i'm afraid...
What i hate the most about being an INFJ, ( only known i'm that since 48 hours btw! :roll: ) is my ability to be instantly swept off my feet when I connect with that certain unseen energy that some people have...since i'm introverted and somewhat secretive, I pursue certain interests on an entirely other level and it's lonely. They say INFJs always want to pursue knowledge and information in the search for wisdom and that we/they don't really ever experience total peace with themselves....what a jolly life plan that is!!! :x
That being said..i'm happy to have come across this tid-bit of info and will rush away to force everyone I know to take the test! I need to know.. :lol: :lol:
Being INFJs, do you all feel like you get off one thing and on to another with incredible and incalculable automaticity? Should one just accept that and strive for the best in this respect too?
Answers and comments please to help me get used to my new label!
And i'm not jesting here...fire away!
Love Nic! oi!
-
Write, i'm still thinking about the attraction to Ns though..and it worries me some. There is a potential love interest in my life at the present time who is complex and troubled to a degree...i've had a lot of "feelings" and "knowing" related to him..green lights and yellow lights and stop lights all at once. Can you relate to that? I haven't quite figured out if it is at all a good thing for me and am being careful not to let my own hang-ups get in the way. I'm spiraling a bit..downward i'm afraid...
Yup! I can relate...I can usually tell within a few minutes of meeting someone how well we'll get on; if it's a man and we connect...oh dear...major emotional fireworks.
But remember it comes from a lot of neural connections- replaying old scripts and relationships, not all good. When another person's DNA starts talking to yours take a deep breath & check out the gene pool around you!
I've always had a tendency to be overly self-reliant to the point of stubbornly believing what I want to believe in relationships, ignoring the rest. I've had to retrain myself as to what is healthy and what I want, and to take care of myself first. And to slow down and trust that things will happen without me needing to be constantly forcing them, afraid to just be.
What I once would have called love I now see as only the start of a relationship, the potential for love somewhere down the line.
Falling in love is a beautiful start but it's only a small bit of a relationship, and it's easy to fall in love with an ideal or image rather than the real person, especially when everyone's on their best behaviour.
Unfortunately we grow up thinking that games are a good way to initiate and undertake relationships, and that 'falling in love' is everything in life. A lot of the stuff we do in romantic relationships is gameplaying, and there are a number of people- players they can be reliably called- who are only in it for the game.
Narcissists are players and incapable of real intimacy, it would be too painful for them.
It would be too painful for us too if we're honest- would we really be open to knowing and supporting such an injured troubled person who is nothing we thought they were also abusive & destructive?
It's not just that we pick narcissistic people - they are attracted to strong talented individual thinking people, and they have learned what to project that hooks us into thinking their potential ( rather than their reality ) makes it worth it.
How many people have been in long-term relationships with a narcissist only to lose themselves in trying to fix ( or just trying to exist alongside ) the narcissist: we probably give off all the vibes early on that we are capable of doing this, this high level of self-sacrifice, and that we appreciate genius and sensitivity ( easy to fake early on ) and accept eccentricity and individuality...and then we don't challenge or call the narcissist on their behaviour or selfishness.
So that is what the narcissist tunes into: our idealism, pragmatism, ability and acceptance, coupled with us being damaged and having a fragile self-esteem.
In some ways we are like the narcissist, with high ideals and fragile sense of self...except we give to heal ourselves, where they take.
There's some of my ideas on it!
The answer is to take relationships slowly, to take care of yourself and be perfectly happy and capable of being alone first before taking a partner- being sure it's a choice not a need.
And to bail out at the first sign of deceit or abusiveness.
After all, if the person has enough potential you can always say 'I like you but I think you have some stuff to sort out before you're ready for a relationship' and pick it up later.
Someone recently said this to me, and mighty refreshing it was too!
I read last week: 'if someone is attracted to you while you are depressed or not functioning well be sure it is because they are looking for someone to feel superior to or control or abuse'.
It works the other way too- why choose to have a relationship with someone who is 'complex and troubled'. Let him go for therapy & work on himself first, while you work on you.
My experience is that once I was reasonably happy with myself I saw the folly of being desperate to be in a relationship at a price to my peace and wellbeing. Because I want a relationship to enhance mine and the other person's life- not to prove something to myself or the world.
And my latest experience as I am getting further into this state of mind is that more people- healthy people- are becoming involved in my life, not the loneliness I once feared ( yet ironically experienced in my underdeveloped relationships anyway )
I no longer want to 'lose myself' in another person; I want to find myself and take care of myself, and step into the life-flow knowing I can cope with what happens, not needing to control things by trying to make them what I want to be or happen too fast.
Good things will happen to you Nic, learn to believe it.
Take care.
-
Hi Portia - I missed your message here earlier. No more message boards - yikes! That's my 'reaching out into the world bit'. Can't give that up. But - whose opinions to value? Hmmm - yes, I take the point! :wink: You see, it's much more difficult for the E to trust what's going on inside. "I feel, think x - would someone confirm that for me, please." :D :D So that's the kind of problem an E would have with psychology things.
Sure you've got a friend - and why? Because you're absolutely delightful. So...how are lots of other people going to discover that you are absolutely delightful????? :wink: It's a toughie isn't it - as soon as we come up against other people we lose not only our voice but our personality, our confidence and all the rest of 'us' so nobody sees us and we reinforce all those voices in our head that say we're not only voiceless but invisible!!! Actually that's not entirely true!!!!!!! I've always found that people 'spot' me straight away and I've gone away thinking 'how could they possibly have responded to me 'as if' I'm a nice, sociable person when I was feeling so despressed (or whatever)'?????!!! I'd forgotten that. People may not 'know' you but they get a sense of your 'essence' and that 'essence' might be just what somebody else is looking for!!! (I'm just taking a moment to throttle that therapist for having taken away my voice, my personality AND my confidence - back in a minute!)
Offering info etc is just my way of bringing people together. It just got a bit lonely when I realised I was bringing other people together all the time, getting a great sense of satisfaction, but I wasn't bringing anyone in for myself!! But (as usual) it seems I missed the point. I was reading some stuff about networking the other day and that's what you're supposed to do. I guess more of my childhood stuff just got in the way of believing in myself and believing good things would come from what I do naturally.
Soooo - your mother's an extravert!!!!! :idea: A-ha!!! Well, we're not all bad. :wink: :wink: Actually, we're all as bad as one another - we need to connect with other people like 'life itself'!!!
Nic - new LOVE interest - what are you saying??! LOVE??? :shock: Or is this just a glitch in the translation??
I think Introverts will be particularly susceptible to the Extraversion of the N (especially in the States where E is so highly valued) - they appeal to my shy, hesitant side as they exhibit supreme confidence and never experience confusion!
But I think Ns target NFs as we are so easy to manipulate. No thinking caps!! Intuition might tell us this is 'not a good thing' but our feelings lead us to feel sorry for people, be tender-hearted and all the rest of it. Guilt trip heaven!!! And if you are also a P - well think of all the possibilities that this N might be 'cured'!!! So I'd guess that an INFP is probably the most likely to get targetted by an N - then an INFJ, an ENFP and an ENFJ in that order! Pure speculation, but an educated guess!!!
BTW if you're getting conflicting signals, I'd run fast. Forget hang ups!!! Confusion is the key to 'here be dragons', it seems to me!!!
Hi write - just read your 'take' on it all, too. I don't disagree, just coming at it from a different angle.
BTW Portia - Just had another thought about your mother and THE FACTS. We E/Ps are just not into precision of that nature. Ask my H (an I/J) what the time is and he'll tell you 10.24 and 15 seconds. I'll tell you it's around half past ten!!! :shock: :wink:
R
-
I thank you very much for your comments and views on my post..I value your input tremendously. What a good place to return to for sharing and caring and feedback! :)
No error in the translation Rosencrantz, you read right!
I agree with your perspective that Introverts would be more inclined to be attracted to the extravertedness of the N...I'm not dealing with an N however..but like me the son of an N...regardless, he was forced to take the test today and I will know the results soon enough!
I know it's just a tool, but I have always enjoyed reading Jung...If I recall correctly, he and Freud were on a ship coming to America at one point ( or something like that I remember reading!) and Freud was wrong about something, a key element to his theory..Freud knew he was wrong but he was unwilling to admit it. Jung knew this and could not accept that such a brilliant man and influence to him and psychiatry would be so stubborn and immature as to admit to being wrong..or at least the possibility that he could be. Their relationship ended there and then...Jung therefore had more ethics I conclude, more maturity..less ego driven..
I've been thinking all day about the recommendations given to INFJs with the trouble areas..i have much the same problem areas as you Write..I must not lose sight of the BIG PICTURE as suggested, and not become totally Intuition driven...nor too introverted..
Being intuitive to the degree that I am necessitates an out...it can't all stay in there..and the shame and guilt I grew up with stopped the possibility of the out which would have been my voice. As a result of having such an active introverted life, I did become Fortress Nic...i've taken down many walls since coming here but I didn't realize they were terrassed and therefore multiple.
I appreciate the taking care of myself first comments write, yes but whilst looking and taking into account the big picture...not just my needs..
I'm about ready to flourish I think..massive renovations..i'm thinking and feeling things through, no more catastrophizing..and I think it's really good and caring of you to encourage me with your comment " Good things will happen to you Nic, learn to believe it."
That is just such a bloody nice thing to say :D I am learning to believe it..little by little.
More later and thanks to both of you.
love Nic
-
always enjoyed reading Jung...If I recall correctly, he and Freud were on a ship coming to America at one point ( or something like that I remember reading!) and Freud was wrong about something, a key element to his theory..Freud knew he was wrong but he was unwilling to admit it. Jung knew this and could not accept that such a brilliant man and influence to him and psychiatry would be so stubborn and immature as to admit to being wrong..or at least the possibility that he could be. Their relationship ended there and then...Jung therefore had more ethics I conclude, more maturity..less ego driven..
That is just such a bloody nice thing to say :D I am learning to believe it..little by little.
More later and thanks to both of you.
love Nic
Hi Nic, Guest here. I enjoy Jung immensely too. My memory goes like this, Freud and Jung were on a ship, enjoying each other. They spent most of their time together, not playing shipboard games, but interpreting and analysing each other's dreams. Freud put a stop to it eventually, because he said if he didn't he was afraid Jung might replace him as the authority. Sounds like my mother. She never let me or wanted to let me blossom. The blacker circle of life.
A sad point in some ways. And a fair bit of EGO, :D :D :D wouldn't you say.
Guest
-
Hi Guest!
Yes yes that's it...at least i remembered the part about the ship! :)
I'm thinking of pulling out the Jung literature again...
Just a suggestion, if you read French there is a great book by a famous french psychoanalyst whose name is Tony Anatrella, and it's called " Non a la societe depressive", has a lot of things on boundaries, permissiveness and lack of direction..i found it quite fascinating..it's not a "how to" book but rather a discourse on the causes of depression as they relate to tolerance etc..a good read I thought..perhaps there is an english translation. Perhaps you speak and read french too? :lol:
Anyways, thanks for the correct version re: Freud and Jung!
I don't recall you mentionning what your personality type is..did you take the test?
Kind regards, Nic :)
-
Oh Guest, if that's you..I just saw that you are ESTJ..is this accurate?
so you did mention your type after all..
later,
Nic 8)
-
Yep that's me, Nic. I'm ESTJ on a paid for professional test I took, and on some other freebie sites. And so I recently redid it on the keirsey site I have in my saved in my favorites. I test all my poor unsuspecting friends, "Here' I'll make the coffee, can you just do this test fro me, pleeeease, It won't take long? Pretty please?." And they usually love it, and then we have something cool to talk about for hours.
But I'm not ESTJ on this one that write recommended, I came up as something completely different. Strange indeed. So anyway, I'm stickin' with ESTJ. The keirsey test has 'That question!' about how do you like putting things away after doing a job. I read about that one that has been analysed by so amny outsiders. How the mother and daughter team tried to make all thier questions seem to not a have a right or wrong answer that would be particularly favoured, or make someone feel better.
And no, I don't read, speak or eat french, but I absolutely love french sub-titled movies. Ahhh, bliss. :lol: I saw 'Children of the Marshlands' again on TV the other night. I melt into that movie. My favourite characters are Mr Amadee and Garris for anyone who knows it, but I love them all, it's such good stuff. It must be a book! I'll have to surf and see. It's a new 'I simply must have it darling' if it is. And thanks for the author and book recommendation, sounds right up my alley, unfortunately :!: :D :D
I'm going surfing, bye
Guest
-
Just catching up here and impelled to chat with a few of you, ideas sparked etc…
Nic
They say INFJs always want to pursue knowledge and information in the search for wisdom and that we/they don't really ever experience total peace with themselves....what a jolly life plan that is
Good quote I hadn’t read! From another INFJ, I used to have this quote from advertising top man David Ogilvy stuck above my desk (when I had a desk and all that weird stuff):
“Develop the habit of divine discontent. Set your sights high, blaze new trails, compete with the immortals."
Maybe in a less corporate drum-banging way he meant: always strive to do better than what you are doing currently? That seems ok with me! – learning, growing…and anyway does anyone experience total peace? I’ll settle for more wisdom, occasional contentment. How about you?
Hey you told us about your sexual preference – thanks! :) Now it doesn’t matter :D (why does it always matter anyway? Basic labelling I guess. :roll: ) Just reading your second post here and you said ‘bloody’. Now that did shock me! I like this new Nic a lot; hope to hear more over time. Can I say welcome back? It’s great to HEAR you!!
The keirsey test has 'That question!' about how do you like putting things away after doing a job.
Thinking maybe I should invest in the full test? And as for putting things away: very neatly, tidily, so I can find everything next time, or if I have a problem or question in future.
-
One of those 'I didn't mean that' moments. I just wondered what happened to the marriage. None of my business - just took me by surprise!!! Now it's one of those 'oh look, here's a hole and a nice spade - time to stop digging' moments. :oops:
And, re nitpicking. Nit-picking is in the eye of the beholder! Like beauty. :wink: What's nit-picking to one person is the key to the golden gate of powerful and life-changing insight for another. (Who said that?!?)
R
-
You said it R!
However, big spade at the ready here, think I may have mis-judged or misinterpreted you Nic above. Having an 'oh cripes' moment. But what the heck, it's posted now. I can see how I could take your comments very, very differently....sorry if I've got you wrong! Disappearing in a pool of question marks and 'it's none of my business' too...sigh. Whatever 'love' means...over and out..P
-
First off, I want to say hello to everyone here. I am new here, and I thought I would jump right in, hope you all do not mind…
I took the test and it concluded that I was an INTJ:
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
44 22 89 33
I am:
-moderately expressed introvert
-slightly expressed intuitive personality
-very expressed thinking personality
-moderately expressed judging personality
I apparently make up 1% of the population. Therefore, I would have to enter a room filled with one-hundred people in order to find one person like myself.
I was enormously shocked to the extent of accuracy of this test. It was mind-boggling in every aspect, especially the way it described me to the very last detail. I think that it has helped me understand myself on a whole other level.
Thank you very much for sharing these wonderful links, Write. :D