Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: isittoolate on June 15, 2007, 03:00:31 PM

Title: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 15, 2007, 03:00:31 PM: Hi all

This next Therapy session I am to tell her what it is I want from her. You see, she has all my history now, all the past traumas and nothing from the past can be changed, so I need a new way of thinking?? Would that be it??

The Rational Emotive Behavioural Therapy appears to require training but--

(REBT differs from psychoanalysis in that it places little emphasis on exploring the past, but instead focuses on changing the current evaluations and philosophical thinking about our lives, others and ourselves.)

Without mentioning REBT, might I ask her to focus on me and my beliefs, without any mention of those who might have misled me in the past, and for her to specify where any of them have set me on the wrong path?

Would some of you, please, suggest some questions/statements that I can ask of her in her 'plain therapist' state?

Thanks
Love
Izzy

EDIT
Quote from: Ami on June 15, 2007, 08:36:43 AM
Dear Izzy,
You are so good with the computer. Hugs Ami

Thank you Ami-----Maybe this could be my mantra?
IZZY
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: WRITE on June 15, 2007, 04:45:25 PM: why can't you mention REBT?

Is that significant?
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: dandylife on June 15, 2007, 05:04:17 PM: Izzy,
I think that would be a great place to start. What ARE your beliefs - about others in your life and their position, what they mean to you, expectations you have of them, and that they have of you.

Your therapist can probably point out the limiting beliefs that she is aware of, but obviously there will be some that she hasn't encountered yet.

Maybe she has some kind of worksheet to give you to expose (bad word?) your limiting beliefs? Those beliefs that hold you back from achieving the goals in your life -whether it be to feel a little happier every day - or to get out there and meet some new people, whatever it may be for you.

Dandylife
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 15, 2007, 05:22:00 PM: Hi Write,

I was thinking that if she is not trained in REBT (there are only 2 in Cananda) that this might not work--be a criticism about her ability?-- yet) if I just see if my beliefs are rational or irrational it might help.

It is my understanding that our personality/character is a result of our beliefs.

hi dandy

Yes that is what I am looking for and I would also like to hear some beliefs from ther Board to see where "I might have gone wrong", or where we are in agreement.

One belief I have I know is wrong-- During WWII a British woman was coming to see my mother for some reason. My mother called her a DP, and she said it rather distainfully, so after the fact I believed all DPs were not really 'humans" like us. Any accent was a DP.

I would be about 4 and the lady was so pretty, blond hair, diamond earrings, a fur stole/coat and I just was in the room and forget all else.

It took me a long time and experience in meeting 'foreigners' to realize they are real too.

Love IZZY
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: dandylife on June 15, 2007, 05:45:58 PM: Izzy,
here is an excerpt from an article on limiting beliefs:

"Limiting Beliefs

Limiting beliefs....limit you.
This can be good or bad.

A positive limiting belief is one that limits you from doing bad or stupid things. "I don't steal because it's wrong". This is a limiting belief, in that it keeps you from doing something. In this case the limitation is good because it keeps you from doing something wrong.

Make sense?

A negative limiting belief is one that limits you from doing good things. "I never trust people because they eventually stab you in the back". This is also a limiting belief, the reason should be self-evident.

(I've had to work on this one for a long, long time... Trust with little things, then work your way up!)

The above two examples are somewhat shallow generalizations to make a few deeper points.

In both cases these self-imposed limitations act as a sort of survival mechanism. They keep us from harm in a physical or emotional sense.

So, how can someone change their limitations? Good question.

Before anyone can change their limitations, they will have to know what limitations are. Once these are identified they should be analyzed, and put into the two groups; positive and negative.

With the limitations recognized and grouped accordingly, the next step is to figure out what the limiting belief is. In the above two examples the belief comes right after the word 'because'. Sometimes the underlying belief is easy to find. Sometimes it takes asking the right questions. "Why do I think that way?" "Is this really the way I feel?" or "What is it about this limitation that makes me feel right or wrong?".

After you find the underlying beliefs of your negative limitations, you can start to change them. It becomes a relatively simple task once you understand what your limiting beliefs are, where they come from, and how the effect they have on you.

The good news is that you can change negative limitations into positive ones. For example: "I never trust people because they eventually stab you in the back" can be changed to, "The best way to get to know someone is to trust them (and if they stab me in the back they are the ones who lose"). " www.kevinhogan.com/choose-to-succeed.htm

Dandylife
From your posts, I could only guess at some beliefs:

"I have had so many bad things happen in life that it's no use to dream big anymore."

"My relationship with my daughter is burdened with such pain it will never recover."

I hate to put too much out there because I could be totally wrong and I don't want to lead you down a path you wouldn't go, but you get the idea!

D.
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 15, 2007, 05:58:22 PM: Oh my, Thank you Dandy

This is just like what I need , to get my thinking going in the right direction, toward me, and away from the past.

You could put anything you wanted. I know what to acccept and reject. I just needed a boot in the rear to get a handle on this, as it is all new.....

......also would the word "values" be relevant to what I'm looking to identify???
XXoo
Izzy
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 15, 2007, 06:38:03 PM: Hi
If you're here, would you please leave a word or two about my "attitude" to give me an idea as to how I am seen----re my therapy?

Much appreciated! Thank you

Love
Izzy
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: dandylife on June 15, 2007, 06:45:51 PM: Izzy,
I'll try and answer your two questions.

#1 Values. It can be very motivating to know your values hierarchy. Enlightening and gives you a sort of "root system".

Here's how you elicit your values hierarchy:

Think of a value (such as honesty)

Think of another value (such as spiritually strong)

Then think which to me is more important? If I could only have 1. That becomes the #1.

Keep going and you will have a list, in order of importance.

your question #2: Your attitude towards therapy? You seem dedicated. Devoted to bringing about a positive change. Fearless and willing to hear and deal with whatever comes up. Your attitude to me is, "Next!" As in what's next, I'm ready for it.

Dandylife
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 15, 2007, 06:51:51 PM: dandylife

You are a sweetheart---I just found a page re values and posted the Link on Write's page. I have printed it off and will work on oit. It is just like you said re values.

Thank you re the attitude ideas, as I have no idea how i come across to others, and likely strnagers would be the best ones to ask. THEN I will ask my therapist!

Thank you Thank you Thank you.

Izzy
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: WRITE on June 15, 2007, 07:12:23 PM: I have foudn therapy to be a process Is, my therapist I have been with over four years, she is very well-qualified and I would guess any posychologist would know RBT basics or go and find things out they aren't sure of.

By process I mean one where you trust gradually.

Now I trust mine implicitly, but i rememebr a time when I would control carefully things that were said and what direction they went in.

Now I can go to a session and know any points I want to make but if we go off in a direction and it seems meaningful we seem to have a rhythmn of what to pursue, and actually i teased her yesterday about always throwing something out at the end of the session. She said she doesn't always think that is helpful, but I pointed out, I wouldn't 'hear' it if it weren't!

I guess what I am rambling about is as the emoitons become less raw and life becomes happier it's not so difficult to face things and i don't have to consciously avoid things, I can be more open and more experimental.

You seem very anxious about what you are portraying re your attitude etc, as though there is some right or wrong way to be.

There's nothing to prove or be proven about therapy, it's merely exploring happiness and peace and what to do with pain really.

Like that poem:

We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
~T. S. Eliot

Take care, hang in there. You're okay (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: Hopalong on June 15, 2007, 11:48:22 PM: Izz, I'm not much philosophical help about therapy but I can tell you this:

It's a Pass-Fail course and you've already Passed.

And ditto your honesty and courage.

I believe you can't do your therapy wrong because you're doing it so wholeheartedly.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 16, 2007, 12:00:42 AM: Thank you Hops

I appreciate your remarks.

I posted that question incorrectly. I ought to have left off the "re therapy".

I was rather looking for any remarks on my attitude/character here on the board, whether shy, naive, intolerable, pushing to the front, incoherent, coherent, useful, useless, angry, quiet, ..................

you know--

different answers I can mull over and see if I am consistent in life, for real, or have different attitudes depending on who or what? I would like to be consistent.

The therapist says I have an edge to my voice, and I think it is the nervousness, embarrassment and anger coming out with different revelations.

Lovve
Izzy

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Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: Hopalong on June 16, 2007, 12:42:24 AM: 'Kay, Izz:

Quote
remarks on my attitude/character here on the board
:

feisty
funny
edgy w/o combativeness
sweet
generous
helpful
determined
self-deprecating
charming
sharing
smart
full of life
sparkly
gutsy
open
honest

...fer starters.

Hops
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 16, 2007, 01:18:44 AM: Thank you Hops,

Oh so many-- that's good.

I feel armed now with my beliefs material, my Value list and some ideas of how 3-4 people see my attitude from posting.

Wonder if therapist will agree? Well I'll let her dispute me if necessary, because I realize in my gut what is wrong or right for me----right now and she might prove some beliefs wrong--------ones that have affected me unknowingly.

Love and Hugs
Izzy
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 16, 2007, 02:47:34 PM: Hi CB
Thank you so much for taking the time to express your thoughts. It means a lot to me.

It has been important to me that people recognize that I am different, as that is (was) my belief. I wanted to change that belief and see myself as one of all the rest, just with different problem areas solved or to be solved.

I will be asking the therapist what my irrational beliefs might be, and the one above fits that category. I want to hear from people like you that I am wrong and that I am not different.

I began life without a script and I only recently learned that our belief system makes us who we are. Then I had to find out what my belief system was/is! My naiveté in my older age, as well as younger, has held me back from changing by not realizing I must change my beliefs.

I have learned much on this Board from other people’s words: affirmation for one and its use.

Yes it was important to me that people see me as different, because then people could help me with that difference. In my quest to have an answer for this difference, I landed on AvPD, as some of the symptoms fit, then a psychiatrist validated that, but even they can be wrong. My therapist does not use labels, so I’ve rather dropped that but still refer to it.

Because of my problem, of shoving friends away, when I was younger ‘because I was different' I mentioned that I just might suddenly disappear because after everyone heard about me, I would be shunned. These are just my own thoughts, an irrational belief that guided me, that is now out the window.

I know the feelings in my head but cannot feel them. I am hoping that with a good list of positive beliefs in place, I will change for the better. I have one already from the last 2 emails between my daughter and me. “A____ and I will exchange only pleasant emails.” With that one in place since just yesterday, I have a much more positive feeling about us. That puts Gus out of the picture, as there was nothing but anger toward him. I will (try to) keep all negative thoughts out of my mind.

I needed the Board to see that I don’t FEEL my feelings in hopes that ideas would be forthcoming—and there have been, like a hard shell inside holding them, yet in my mind I know what is a happy thing and what is a sad thing. I suppose I, very young, put feelings into an intellectual position instead of otherwise.

Quote
I think that you are sometimes scared of interaction here on the board--scared that you have nothing to contribute and that everyone else does.

That is dead on, CB, as I've never thought of myself as 'wise'.

Quote
. But you are also a lot like everyone else and, when you ask what attitudes I see, one that I see is that you don't want to see yourself that way.
More like: One is that I can’t/couldn’t see myself that way, but this Board and all you wise people are slowly chopping at the block of cement and I have a peep-hole now.

It was just yesterday or the day before when I read that in a certain psychological stance ”one can have no feelings at all”. There! I read it some place and now that I have seen that, I don’t feel as different because someone else knows about it. I don’t quite understand the theory yet but it just tells me I am normal and not different. I expect everyone did my thinking for me when I was young: i.e. I did everythng I was told and likely never spoke a word of whining or complaining, so their words filled my head not my own and I have been "voiceless".

I expect what I have said will show that I have needed an answer for quite a number of questions. The more normal I feel, the better beliefs I will have and the happier I will be, I expect? I hope?

Thank you for your insight CB (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)
Love
Izzy
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 16, 2007, 03:27:43 PM: Hi Ami
Your opinion is welcomed as well, Ami.

Yes I set myself apart from people (the box) believing I was different. If you have read my response to CB, you might understand better. If not, please do read it, so I don’t have to be redundant in my replies. Thank you.

The Bible is not my way, as it is worse than reading Shakespeare. I don’t understand the convoluted wording. I believe in God and the Golden Rule.

I think I have just reached the point of understanding my own reality, thanks to this Board and my Therapist.
It is great to find a place where one can feel that one belongs there. I felt that at the beginning. You weren’t here. As I finished telling “all my dirty little secrets” I then said to the board, “This generally the point where I would leave a relationship, because I would feel not liked anymore” (something like that.) The board responded with stay, stay! And it was wonderful but it took me a bit to know what to say next, as I had never gone beyond that point before, but I trusted this group.

And yes I trust the Therapist before myself, as well as I trust responses to me, before myself. Well I have learned a lot, as my CB post will say.
Dandylife posted about “limiting beliefs” and I learned more. I see, just now, that if the post is directed right at me, and I learn something, then it is awesome!

Quote
I believe that you trust the T more than you trust you. I think that you can learn to trust yourself by first divesting yourself of the belief that you are different.

That is just where I am at right now. I have a new belief regarding my daughter and it has made me feel more positive.

On this Board, no one is alone, as we have had similar experiences, although with some I cannot relate if I haven’t “walked in that person’s shoes”.

It’s true that I was the black sheep of the family, the scapegoat etc. but I didn’t have enough sense to overcome that reality when it was no longer so.

When my Therapist appeared to wonder what to do with me, she put the onus on me to tell her what I expected out of our visits. Now that all the “crap” is behind us, I will ask her to help me with my beliefs (rational or irrational) values, attitudes etc regarding different issues. One thing I value is my privacy. Imagine! (I don’t know why I thought of ‘beliefs’. Maybe God put the word into my head! And maybe I believe more than I realize!)

I am not angry at all, Ami. (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose.gif) We each have our stories, and our way of dealing with the wrongs that have been done, “in the name of love”.

Thanks you for you response.
Love
Izzy
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 16, 2007, 04:15:43 PM: Hi Ami

Thanks.

I must use my mind more.

I was just getting dressed to go out (It's 1:09 Pacific time) and was thinking about how my belief became "I am different" It was my siblings and their taunts about my body not being right, my hair was the wrong colour, and then, not changing that belief, I was the first to have an illegimate child, then the first to be cracked up in a car crash etc, so the belief hung on. I was different.

Now my belief will be that "I am a human being with my own issues, just like everyone else"

Am I thinking okay?

Lovve Izzy--on her way out for a bit!
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 16, 2007, 06:08:02 PM: Thanks Ami

When I was out, I thought and realized that when I put all the issues first, I was putting me last. That is another thing I will change.
I come first and my problems next.

xx
Izzy

(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/course1.gif)
Title: Re: Question--New approach
Post by: isittoolate on June 17, 2007, 12:48:38 AM: Maybe I'll write a book

"And I thought I was Dfiferent" or "I was Different" or "What it's like to feel 'Different" or some such...............................