Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on June 21, 2007, 11:48:39 AM
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If any of you have read about the reason for which people gamble, it is becasue it is a variable response. If the response were fixed and you know that after certain amount of tokens you will get a price, it would not be addictive. But you are putting tokens and in 100,000 times you get one price, the solely idea of that one price keeps you going.
That is why we, children of N parents, are so confused, and propense to get addictions, games, drugs, or love, or victime role, etc, because we never knew what we were going to get from our caretakers, always a variable response.
And when one time they give us a little taste of that nurture that we desperately are looking for, we keep pressing on the lever until we are exhausted, until our emotions have no more tokens. Until we are nothing.
Variable response, that is why we cannot anticipate. I am sorry for my mom. She was the escape goat of her mother too. But I need to be sane. I will try to enjoy the last days that my mom is spending here with me, until next year she will be back if God allows, and I will be even healthier, she will be my little girl and I will give her a lolypop. I will never abandone her, anyway. Just keep her kind of a safe distance.
Like sharks, I admire sharks and I would help to protect them but will keep my distance from them. Just a safe distance, without abandoning her. She got what she wanted. But not all her way. Just in the middle. Hope that I am making sense.
My woulds got infected, I am taking antibiotics, but today my infected spot was much better, no draining, the doctor said I can go on the treadmill. I will go today to the gym and do treadmill. Walk will make me feel better.
Love to you all.
Thank you.
God bless you dear friends.
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Hey Lupita:
It sounds like you're on the fast track to gaining insite and strength about dealing with your mother, and your feelings.
What a thing to have to do while you're recovering from surgery, dealing with infection and all that stuff you had going on at work and church, too.
I like the shark analogy. Not sure how that's going to work for ya.
I couldn't take the relentless pounding from my N.
I had to choose NC.
You don't have to deal with your mother every day though.
I suspsect it's possible to keep her filed away safely and protect yourself.
I just don't think I can/could do that with my N so I fear for you on a couple of levels.
I will say that you sound like you've landed on your feet and you're "back in the saddle."
That's a really good place to be and I'm glad for you.
Keep healing and taking care of yourself, first and foremost. Even if you don't know how or don't want to or it leaves you cold.... keep practicing and pretending and DOING it.
(((Lupita))) I also liked your "little child with a lollipop" analogy.
Just remember that N's job is to insight confusion and knock you off balance.
They're not just good at it, it's WHAT THEY ARE.
So be mindful and protective of YOU for the duration of the visit.
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Darnit.... I started out to post ONE little thing and then forgot, lol.
I read that the most harmful thing you can do to a child.....
is treat them with kindness and cruelty without any reason.
Your post brought this to mind.
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Lupita,
I have never hear you sound so good. You are taking important steps to healing. I am really happy for you Love Ami
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hey Lup,
I'm glad you are feeling much better and getting back to doing the things you like.
Your post made so much sense. I agree with you it becomes an addiction a habit. Like gambling sometimes you win most of the time you lose. In the end you winding up losing more then you gained. It's never really a win situation only feels like it at the moment just to try to win more and lose everything you had to begin with. Better to not gamble. Your right that is exactly what it is like when you deal with an N. Your always pulling that lever to see if you can gain or break even. Get more or get back what you lost.
It's so good that you see what happened to your mom (her life before you) her childhood. It will help you understand why and who she is. You have broken the cycle Lup although you carry pain from your childhood. You did not pass it on to your child.
You make complete sense to me Lup and I think you are right on things. Pain takes quite sometime to get rid of but I see GREAT healing in you.
Your a good soul Lup,
I'm glad you are here on this board and I enjoy your post.
Deb
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WOW, Lupita!!!!
I am awed.
GOOD FOR YOU.
You're seeing more clearly so you're not so scared.
Bravoooooooooo!
Hops
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I knew that N have one child of gold and one child escape goat. My mother was the escape goat of my gandmother and I was the escape goat of my mother.
I did not know that it came from a hebrewa tradition. I do not enjoy reading the old testament. I always prefer to read the new testament. So I know very little of the old traditions. Thank you so much CB.
It sounds so much real for all of us. It is even painful.
Today, it is Friday. My mom is mad at me. I was almost about yo start suffering and thinking how unfair life is, when I read CB's post about escape goats. Suddenly I remember that she is not reasonable. Thank you CB. I will not feel that bad now.
I have to remember that I have to look at it from the outside.
She is mad. In two hours she has not talked to me at all. I have asked twice what she wants to do and she does not answer. She must be thinking how ungrateful I am to not appreciate her efforts to come take care of me. We were watching a program on TV suring breakfast in wich a daughter was being very ungrateful to her mother. She got mad at me. On top of all she burned her bread in the oven. I did not run fast enough so her bread did not burn. She took that as if I was not grateful to her. I cannot analized anymore why she is mad today. She is a rollercoaster and I cannot let her affect me. I have to be sorry for her. On top, if I go and aske her what is the matter, I know she is going to get even worse, so I have to ignore her for maybe thirty minutes and then see if she wants to go out. Or just aske her again.
But I am not going to feel sad, I am not going to feel sad, it is not my fault that she is mad, I am not a bad daughter, I am not going to be sad, she will get better in half an hour and then if I let it affect me I will be sad for several days, I cannot be sad, I cannot feel bad.
She is leaving in two days, on Sunday. I cannot let her destroy my day, I have tones of money that I owe the hospital, I have to recover, I have to look for a summer job, I have to study for the exam I want to take before classes start.
I cannot let her ignorance affect my mood, I will not take me anywhere.
Now I am in the living roo, and she is in the bedroom. She does not want to tell me what she wants to do. If I go and ask her she is going to explode.
Somebody help me here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I am sure it is because she burned her sandwich because I was lazying around the living room instead of helping her in the kitchen. I am sure that is the reason.
I already called my son and I asked him to meet us because she wants some CDs that he has. So we are going to eat lunch tohether and that will help her to get happier. She never mistreats me in fron of my son. Only in private.
So the presence of my son is going to help.
I just have to survive from now to the moment that my son comes to the rescue, in two hours.
i am already extremely fueled in adreanline and fear.
I cannot have fear. This fear has to go right now.
Seh cant do anything to me. She is sick. She is ignorant. She did not even finish high school, she left school in the first year of high school, my grand mother put her to work and she took all her money. She was only fourteen when she started working and giving all her money to my grnd mother.
I cannot be sad.
Please, God help me, please, please.
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Lupita:
She'll be gone soon and your job is to "KEEP MOVING IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION"
Make the arrangements to take that summer course.
Get online and check on summer jobs you'd find interesting.
Busy yourself with taking care of YOU.
She'll either continue acting the way she is or she'll do something different.
Either way, you can't control her.
WHAT CAN YOU CONTROL?
Lupita and taking care of Lupita.
Now quit worrying about her and do something that will make you feel better.
Your're gonna be just fine and we're here rooting for ya!
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She is a poor elder, 70 years old, has no money.
She still provokes me so much fear. I cant believe that I fear her.
I am so disappointed of my self.
I thought that I did not fear her anymore.
I was wrong.
I dont want her to get mad at me.
I still want to be a good girl and that is not going to happen.
Is not going to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I dont feel, i dont feel, I dont feel,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will not be sad!!!!!!!!!! I will not be sad.
I did such a good job yesterday. She was trying so hard to cause a conflict and I turned the conversation around and I even made her laugh.
What happened today?
I lowered my guard.
I am exhausted.
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Lup.... it's just going to take some time and practice to internalize these lessons.
I want you to cry and cry and cry and cry...... I want your inner child to wail and rant about how unfair it is for a mother to not love her daughter and make her FEEL like a bad girl...
when whe's really a good little girl who loves and wants to be loved.
That's not fair.
It makes no sense.
Get through this.
You're learning and growing, the more pain, the stronger you're going to be.
That's the fact and your're in the void.
So scary, so dark, so helpless.
But you're not helpless.
DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF just one little thing and remember that she doesn't have any control over what she does, but you do.
If she could do better she would.
DO BETTER FOR YOURSELF Lupita.
((((LUPITA)))))) You really need a hug, sweetie.
This will be over soon.
Adjust that helmet and don't let her words in.
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Lupita,
Just read your last post--why can't you be sad? Why do you have to work so hard not to be sad? To not feel your feelings?
Is there some kind of unspoken contract that you have with your mom that you can never be sad? What if you broke the contract? What if you refused to try to make her happy with you? What if you just walk out of the room if she is being cranky and go spend some time in your room by yourself--read a book, take a nap, call a friend. What if you decide that you are going to be sad if you feel sad and quit expending all the energy that you are to try not to be?
No wonder you are exhausted. And it sounds like she wants you to be.
Lupita, see if you can take a look at what is happening--is it what always happens? Try to do something a little different. If you normally follow her around asking what's wrong, try taking a walk alone instead. Just make some small change that will make you feel that you arent stuck--even if it doesnt change her at all.
Love
CB
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I was thinking "take a walk" too, Lup, like CB.
I think sometimes being inside a room inside a building when emotions feel like they're pressing in like walls...it's good to go outdoors.
Just a gentle walk, looking at trees and plants and dogs and sun if it's sunny, or the bright mystery of raindrops if it's not. Breathe while you walk, cry if you like.
Let nature soak in.
YOU BELONG HERE. You are part of it all, a welcome, beloved part.
(((((Lupita)))))))
Hops
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Lup
Your initial post here was wonderful. It makes such sense to me about the whole addiction process. I know I ended up addicted to getting the crumbs from XN. Which of course was what I got from N mother. I think children of Ns live in a heightened state of stress, always waiting and always hoping against hope. I have always had that feeling of waiting and I just hate it. I wriggle in the waiting, try and be the good one, the rebel, anything to get a few crumbs. Since I have taken control of my life I have lost that feeling and it is so good.
I thought it was very interesting your post about the golden child and the scape goat. XN has two kids, his son, who he bullied mercilessly and his D who is the golden one. It was disgusting to watch that game. Needless to say I would defend the son which did not go down well, telling the truth was not allowed.
take care of yourself,
axa
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How ya doin, Lupe?
I was in the car a good deal of yesterday but I thought about you and hoped you were up and out of the house keeping yourself occupied.
Learning to tune out the learned responses your mother trained into you will take time.
Changing habits is always hard.
Never an easy process.
Changing the habits you have with your mother will lead to better emotional health for you.
Changing your expectations of her and finding new support systems is where you're headed.
It just takes time and I hope you start a journal and write write write all these feelings down.
It helps to go back and re read them. Then write again.
It helps bring clarity and that's what you're looking for.
To get rid of the confusion you've been living in.
((Lupita))
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Thank you dear friends. Thank you so much for your time.
Indeed is very comfusing cruelty + kindness = Confusion.
My mom was here for two weeks this time. She is leaving tomorrow early in the morning. She has no idea how bad she makes me feel.
She spent her savings + Her money is all devaluated + she tells me how much effort she did + she hurts me with her behavior +
she says things that hurt + she does not want to do the things I want + I have to please her all the time = I am exhausted +
confused.
I hate when she calls her husband and my sister "her family" as if I was not her family.
I hate when she says how nice is my sister and how good gaughter she is.
She cooked, she cleaned, for me, because I could not do it my self. I am fine now. She leaves tomorrow.
I used to tell her many years ago, "mom, your soup is so good, but you attack me during the time I am eating it, I cant eati ti as it is posined"
So, the soup did not serve. It is like making a cake and put a cacaroch . Cant eat it.
She spent her savings, she cleaned my house, she cooked, helped with half of the supermarket expenses.
N mom is doing a favor but she cannot control that she has to say something ugly, she does not know that that is poisoning the soup and you wont be able to eat it.
She has no idea.
I have no idea how bad my mother feels. I must remember her bad feelings. I am so sorry for my mom.
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Best to ask yourself why you're mother is acting the way she is.... because it truly has nothing to do with you.
Nothing at all.
She's ill and she can't help herself, or God knows she would.
Go ahead and feel empathy for her.
Just don't let it cloud your judgement about defending and protecting yourself.
She deserves empathy, yes, but only to the extent that it doesn't get in the way of you taking care of yourself.
TAKING CARE OF LUPITA IS YOUR JOB NOW. Priority #1.
She mustn't be allowed to hurt you any longer.
I don't know how you'll manage that and also keep her in your life, Lupita.
I don't think I could manage that myself, with an XN husband, much less a mother.
The things you wrote about the good soup she makes but you can't eat it bc you feel it's been poisoned while you eat it. Her cruelty. I felt so badly for you just reading about it.
I don't think they make an imaginary helmet that can keep out that kind of crazy making, irrational inexplicable cruel behavior.
Nothing to do with you, Lupita, but it's AIMED at your head and your heart and your very soul.
The only way I'd force myself to be around that woman, if I was you, is to have a third party around so she'd be decent in front of them. I wouldn't subject YOU/MYSELF to any more of her "behind the scenes" insanity.
From an outsiders point of view, that's how I see it. <shrug>
So glad you're healing and she's going home. Whew!
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I think children of Ns live in a heightened state of stress, always waiting and always hoping against hope. I have always had that feeling of waiting and I just hate it. I wriggle in the waiting, try and be the good one, the rebel, anything to get a few crumbs. Since I have taken control of my life I have lost that feeling and it is so good.
Dear Lupita,
I am so sorry that I did not respond to your pain. I was going through so much of myown that I did not see your posts.
I am going through similar feelings,but you have her there, so you are going through so much more.
I am so sorry that you are going through so much pain. I hear growth in your posts, though. I hear a strength that was not there, before.
Once she leaves, you can begin to pick yourself up again.
Axa, I want so badly to be where you are(above post) . How did you get there? Love Ami
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Dear Friends:
Today is Sunday 24th. It is 1:27 PM. My mother is gone, for onr year. Why do I feel guilty? I tried ny best, took her to the places she wanted. The only bad thing I did was to respond to things that she says that trigger me.
For example she constantly wakes me up for no reason, even when I was in the hospital agonizing on pain just after surgery. Last niht we agreed that we would have breakfast together today in the morning before we went to the airport. We decided that we would eat eggs and coffee and tost. It would be our last breakfast together until another year. She did not wake me up. She said that she wanted me to sleep more. She did not want to have breakfast with me. I reacted badly to that. I told her how come she was constantly waking me up every single day and today that we particularly last night agreed in to have breakfast before the airport, how come she decided to let me sleep? She deprived me from that, probable unconcsiously. I yelled at her.
Later in the airport, she started complaining about the devaluation of the money there where we come from and how miserable she is and how lucky I am to be in USA. Again I felt atacked. I told her yelling, I have tremendous amount of debt. I owe my car, I owe several thousands of dollars to the hospital and several doctors, I make very little money as a teacher in a private school, that she has a very nice piece of proprety in our country, and even in the USA we have economy problems too. I have to recover, to look for a summer job, I need to feel well but it might be that se wants me to be sad.
I was very mad at her for not seeing that I need her cheer up, not her complains.
Now that she is gone I regret. Did I mistreat my mother? Was I a bad person? Was I a bad daughter?
I feel so guilty and sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that what she wanted?
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Dear Lupita,
Do I see myself in you.!! I think that the "flip" side of the N mother is the guilt ridden daughter .She will do ANYTHING for love and affirmation. I did anything for love--- even be willing to stop eating and die(subconsciously).
Lupita, I think that these two roles must just go together. The N mother is the one who is unacceptable and hurtful,but we ,as the N daughters take the blame on ourselves.That is our "hook" in to the "couple"We are a "couple" just as the spousal relationship. If someone had good self esteem, the abusive relationship would die. It only 'works" when both people play their parts. One abuses and the other "agrees"In order for me to be abused, I have to believe what the abuser tells me.( down deep)I have to have a mental program where I see myself as worthless or I would not "resonate" with the other person's agenda . It is subconscious
I am seeing that 'my role" is a result of my thinking. The problem is inside me. I do not value myself. I "believe" what my mother told me about myself .I have to change my 'hook-in's" so that they do not fit an abusive persons"hook in's".Whether I am with My H or another man or anyone, I am programmed to blame myself.Then, I find someone who will blame me. We fit together like a lock and key.
Lupita, I am aghast that you would blame yourself. It is pitiful. I do exactly the same thing. I am not judging one single bit.
When I hear you describe the situation, I shudder that you would conclude that it is YOUR fault. It is so obviously an abusive, disrespectful relationship on your mother's part.
You are being "thrown" the curve ball. Then, you are blamed that you don't throw it back exactly right. .
We are simply used to this type of behavior from them and also used to blaming ourselves.So,it is 'normal" for us. However, we know ,down deep, that it is not normal. You know down deep how bad it is. However ,it hurts so badly to face it. It is easier(much easier), in a way ,to blame ourselves than to face how awful they are..
Lupita, you can't make her in to a loving person-- no matter how much money, time ,love or care that you give her.
I am learning this lesson of loss. Then. after I face the loss, I have to build myself up brick by brick.
Sometimes, it is unbearably sad. Now, I am feeling a little peaceful b/c I have made some progress. I am going to enjoy this moment of peace(two dogs asleep in the same room and no one home)
Lupita, you are growing and changing. I can hear it. Just keep facing the truth, as you are. Just keep walking forward. You will face it and grieve. Then you will begin to 'feed yourself". This is what I am trying to learn Love Ami
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Lupita:
I always feel like that with one of my siblings.
It's always the same.
Just like you say. My loved one does crazy, hurtful psycho stuff and I explode then feel guilty and I KNOW THAT MY SIB IS LIVING IN FEAR OF BEING DESERTED. It's a spiral and I can't make it better.
The saying I like, at this time in my life is, "ONE PERSON CAN'T MAKE 2 PEOPLE HAPPY, but they can sure make 2 people miserable."
After every visit, I always commit to "doing better next time" then can't, lol.
Jeez, I guess we just need to stop doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different outcome, lol?
Currently, my plan is to put my hand up between our faces whenever she does or says anything insane, and telling her I have no more room for craziness right now, try me again next year.
That may not be a good plan. It may not even work but, it's NOT GOING DOWN this year the way it always has gone in the past.
I just don't have the energy to commit to her insanity AND I choose not to engage in it.
Uh hem
I'll let'ya know how that works out for me.
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Lupita,
I wanted to add something. I realize how much I blame myself, down deep, for not being able to 'make' a good relationship with my M.
. I don't want to face how untrue her lies were. I think that if I hate myself, I can still embrace her ideas(b/c she hated me).
I think that I am afraid to let it all go. Somehow, I am afraid of living without my whole history (which tells me that i am worthless) than facing how it was ALL a lie.I think that I am afraid of the annihilation of my whole life
I know that someone will understand this Love Ami
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Hi Lupita,
I wonder if your grandmother said to her daughter (your mother): ohhhhh, how you hurt me, what you have done to me, how I have sacrificed for you, why can't you be like that other child, if you don't do what I want I will turn my back on how, how terrible my wounds are from my children, how badly you treat me...
If she did, is it possible your mother thinks this is what mothers do? How they talk? Could she be acting out just what her own mother did to her?
Hops
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Hi Hops, I do believe that my mom has NPD. She has no contact with reality. She really believes that with just denying something that something did not happen.
She says, i did not do it. That never happened. You are imagining things.
I am her escape goat and she was her mother's.
My grand mother was very nice to all of us. She was nice to my aunts.
My mom is very nice to my borther and sister. She really loves them. It is just me. She is totally different with me. And she alienates her husband and my sister and brother against me.
Today I feel sorry for my mom. Yesterday I was all nocked out.
She is there with her husband, and my sister and my sister's daughter.
I am here totally alone.
She know that I owe a lot of money, that I have to look for a summer job after I recover completely, that I dont hve any money. She gave $50.00 to my son to go have fun. My son has his rent paid and food paid. That money is to have fun. I would have used that money. But she gave it to my son.
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Dear friends, thank you for your words.
Thank you so much.
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Lupita, I'm so sorry, it's just so unfair and makes no sense whatsoever!
Your mother's behavior is what it is though. She's not going to change and she's picked you out as her scape goat.
It's improbable that she would try to crush you to make herself feel better, yet, there it is.
On the money thing, she goes on and on about how poor she is and how good Americans have it then GIVES 50.oo to your son for FUN!?!?!
That doesn't even make sense when you have so much need and she seems to as well.
It was like she slapped you in the face on purpose with it and I very much understand how hurt and confused that must make you feel.
She'll never stop doing that to you, ((Lupita)) Cause she's broken.
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That is the point, she will never stop. She will never stop. She will never stop.
Today I am numbed. I do not feel.
Lighter, Axa, Ami, everybody, thanks.
She will never stop doing the same.
Next year I will be more prepared.
I will read her e mails after I do my meditation. Never before. And I will answer with only positive things.
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From CB
When you are raised by someone who is fearful about everyday, normal things, it makes you think that the stakes in everyday life are much higher than they are. You think that there are more life and death issues than really exist. If you give the dog a bath the "wrong way", it doesnt matter. But because your mother taught you that life is a fearful thing, the danger seems to be around every corner. You have picked up her fearfulness without knowing why.
From me
I live in constant fear. But I do not want it anymore. I want to move on and be happy. Need to feel well. :(