Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: reallyME on June 21, 2007, 01:54:29 PM
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I wanted to have a thread where I could tell some things about Narcissists, give examples, etc. It's sooooooo important for you all to understand what is behind all this stuff, how they react, why they are the way they are, etc.
So, here goes:
A child who is narcissistically abused, goes into a Never Never Land, Oz, fantasy sort of place in their mind. Here, they believe they will be safe. They may never come out again back into reality. This is also known as "magical thinking."
This child tends to do to others, what her abuser did to her. She sees herself as a false image, until who she really was and is, becomes UGLIER to her. When she begins seeing signs of the "real her" coming to the surface, she trains herself to push them down, because she cannot bear to face the terribleness of "self. Eventually, this damages her ability to have a conscience, so she is able to do whatever she chooses, get away with it, and not care.
She has enemies from a very early age, who would love to blow the whistle on her. She has so utterly betrayed and destroyed these people, that they want to get her BACK and expose the "real" person too.
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Narcissists are attention addicts. They play a "mirroring game" in order to get a certain response from you 100% of the time. They do this in order to prove they are powerful over you. They do NOT WANT TO CONNECT WITH YOU AS A FRIEND.
They give and withhold attention from you as a cruel "game" that they love to play. They will watch you beg for their time or approval and then mock you, ignore you or ridicicule you for needing them. If you dare to ask them for what you need from them (love, care, concern, a listening ear), they will become angry and full of rage at you. ("How DARE you presume upon ME to expect me to do what a mother, friend, sister, teacher, etc does!")
Being alone to narcissists, means being WITHOUT ATTENTION. they HATE this, because it means they will have to face their "self" too much. They will go into deep depression if left alone with no supply source of another person they can use or abuse. They may have suicidal thoughts, depression, mental breakdowns, or become violent until they are not alone anymore.
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Narcissists can become so successfully ABSORBED in something or someone, that they can block out all other things entirely and go into a "trancelike" state. This feels similar to when someone undergoes surgery without anesthesia.
Beware: When a Narcissist says "go ahead and tell me what you think of me. I don't care. It won't even affect me..." they MEAN THAT. they can LITERALLY block off ALL feelings of concern, interest, care, love, whatever. I know. I have seen this in person. They get a glazed look in their eyes and turn their eyes to the side or wherever and they just sort of stop "being there" with you. It feels so weird, like you no longer exist to them.
This is the deepest form of repression, which is their way of blocking out the things that truly motivate them. As if they are "flashing back," the feelings they have stuffed down and blocked out, will RESURFACE EVENTUALLY IN SOME FORM. This resurfacing is a narcissists biggest fear! They will keep doing all they know how, to shovel, bury, hide their feelings and who they "are" underneath all the hype, but those things WILL NOT STAY BURIED NO MATTER WHAT.
From a very early age, narcissists have trained themselves in their brains, to FILTER OUT everything EXCEPT what they want to see, hear and know. This way, they can keep "wearing" their "false self" effectively.
When the narcissist's supply source decides to leave or confront the narcissist, the narcissist feels like they too, do not exist anymore. (you CAN'T leave me, cause then WHO AM I? I DO NOT EXIST WITHOUT YOU TO REFLECT BACK TO ME WHAT I AM TO YOU") This is why a narcissist CANNOT be without one other supply person. They HAVE to have a mirror to watch their "act" in.
Because deep inside, the narcissist FEARS in TERROR, their real self coming to the surface, they constantly have to make their victims PROVE THEMSELVES as being faithful, by testing their attachment to them REPEATEDLY in many cruel ways:
- "hmm, if I mock her, will she put up with it and let me continue or will she leave and make me have to punish her?"
- "if I tell her what to wear, is she gonna comply or rebel and do her own thing? I can't have THAT...she MUST do only what I tell her, for HER OWN GOOD!"
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I can't wait for the next post!
This is great, Reallyme.
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No matter what you are discussing with the narcissist, the conversation will ALWAYS COME BACK TO THEM...what they are doing lately, how much money they have, who blessed them, who gave them gifts, who praised them, etc.
When a narcissist stops liking their "reflection" (based on your reaction to them), dont' be surpised is they start BREAKING THE MIRROR! (you)
The only way the narcissist has of knowing how their "image" is appearing to others, is by carefully and calculatedly WATCHING AND LISTENING to what people are telling them about themselves, or how they are reacting to the narcissists little "digs" about their character, weight, ideas. Once you stop engrandizing and being impressed with the narcissist, you are as good as GONE if they can't flip you back into subservience with them. Then, they will find the next source for their glamorizing needs.
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WOW R.M
You are a "Vaknin" without the kick in the A##. GREAT insights. Love Ami
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Laura,
Yes exactly I have seen all these things and have had all those things done to me. It feels very odd still till this day to be around a Narcissist. I don't know how to explain the feeling. I would have to say not afraid feeling maybe an eerie feeling.
Especially this look:
Beware: When a Narcissist says "go ahead and tell me what you think of me. I don't care. It won't even affect me..." they MEAN THAT. they can LITERALLY block off ALL feelings of concern, interest, care, love, whatever. I know. I have seen this in person. They get a glazed look in their eyes and turn their eyes to the side or wherever and they just sort of stop "being there" with you. It feels so weird, like you no longer exist to them.[/color]
The eyes, it's the eyes that make me feel so creepy when I see that glaze and they really do do that. It must be some kind of chemical going on in their brains that make them get that look like if they were on LSD.
God that is so creepy when I saw that.
My friend got to see this in my H when he was confronted and lying. I remember her face looking at him yet I appreciated that she picked up on his Eyes. She turned and said he's not here with us is he. She also got that creepy feeling.
I'm so glad you said the glazed eyes. I never heard anyone acknowledge that before besides myself and my friend.
But they don't do this all the time. They sometimes turn thier eyes or look dead at you but not with the glazed look even when lying so I do wonder why that glaze comes in sometimes. That really creeps me out. It's like they are insane and can bring themselves in and out of it.
Deb
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Deb:
Are you talking about a "crazy insane glazed eye look" or a "distanced crazy insane eye glaze?"
I've seen my N zone out and be dismissive.
I've also seen him stark raving mad, twice, where he looked haggard and glazed and on drugs. He'd lost his mind bc he'd lost his abilty to be mirrored by me, his secondary source of NSupply.
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Light,
I have seen both. My ex did drugs and that was the drug part of the look but I have seen the distance part too. That is the creepy part.
My friend who was an N but not a druggie also would get the look of being removed from the world, not here, but be able to talk like she was. Like she was able to split her personality. Perfrom as a human talk without being in the same world and her other half was out there looking in at us. You could see it in her eyes.
Like she watching her fake self act it out. Being an observer of herself and her performance. Does this make any sense?
It's really hard to explain. They are so creepy.
Deb
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they can LITERALLY block off ALL feelings of concern, interest, care, love, whatever. I know. I have seen this in person. They get a glazed look in their eyes and turn their eyes to the side or wherever and they just sort of stop "being there" with you. It feels so weird, like you no longer exist to them.
I feel like I do this. I have a really hard time making eye contact, but I can make eye contact with some people better than others. I can't do it with my mom at all. I have to look off to the side of her a little bit. It makes her mad too.
I hope that doesn't mean I'm an N.
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Tayana...my opinion is that you are NOT likely to be a narcissist, just cause you lack ability to have eye contact. You probably don't look at your mother's eyes out of SELF PROTECTION. Abusers' eyes are used to control and intimidate those "under" them. You most likely learned to divert your attention, to keep yourself from feeling "melted" under your mother's firey gaze.
If you were a narcissist, you wouldn't even AGREE that you weren't showing eye contact to someone. You wouldn't care WHAT people thought of how you appeared, other than if they attacked your false image.
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they can LITERALLY block off ALL feelings of concern, interest, care, love, whatever. I know. I have seen this in person. They get a glazed look in their eyes and turn their eyes to the side or wherever and they just sort of stop "being there" with you. It feels so weird, like you no longer exist to them.
I feel like I do this. I have a really hard time making eye contact, but I can make eye contact with some people better than others. I can't do it with my mom at all. I have to look off to the side of her a little bit. It makes her mad too.
I hope that doesn't mean I'm an N.
Ummm... no it just means that you're probably a bit on the introverted scale. A bit shy and perhaps feel depleated by the big energy of those soul sucking entities that demand your attention? Ya think, lol?
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Great thread ReallyMe!
Tayana, I agree with ReallyMe's and Lighter's assessments, and I can totally sympathize (empathize?) with what you said about eyes. I rarely made eye contact with anyone for years and wasn't even aware of it, until my H gently pointed it out to me one day several years ago. Now I work really hard to meet people's eyes and it gets easier, though I'm not sure I do it correctly. I am pretty introverted. Talking to people (even ones that seem nice) is very scary and draining. Growing up with an Nmom trained me to be fearful of eyes - hers were always full of rage waiting to erupt. When she looked at me it was like her eyes were laser beams trying to melt me. When she wasn't looking at me it was like I didn't exist to her. Not sure which was worse.
Green
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Tay,
Oh God no you are not an N. Don't worry yourself about that because of the eye contact we are talking about. It's way different.
Sorry you got alarmed.
Deb
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My mother's eyes are really light blue, and they are the coldest eyes I've ever seen. I don't like looking at them, and when she's angry they're like little blue ice cubes. I am an introvert. I once got a dressing down at my job because I wasn't outgoing enough. I have a really hard time being outgoing. I'm just not.
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I figure, in order to keep discussion limited and focused somewhat on the topic of particular threads, it's best for me to post a few chunks at a time, so I'll do that. More to come...thanks for comments. Nice to know we aren't alone in this stuff :)
~Laura
and God bless, keep and restore X wherever you are. I do still and have always loved you and wanted you to live long and healthy. God's love to you.
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I call this her dissociation face-she looks down with a grimace on her face-and the eyes-mean-but she only does it when we are alone and that is why I only want to talk to her with an audience.
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I don't like to talk to my mother alone. That's when she says something really nasty that make me feel like dirt.
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(((Green)))
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I know that look so well. Used to tell him I hated his "dead eye look" and that was just what it was. It was so scary would unnerve me. I think I was looking at pure hatred when he had that look.
Laura,
Think your words about when you rebel against the N they break the mirror. That just sums it all up for me. Once the mirror is reflecting the "wonder" of the N it is tolerated but show some truth and the game is to break you. I remember having a row with XN and pointed out that I am only telling the truth, which he hated, his response was you are holding up a mirror to me and I do not want to see what you are showing me............. ahhhhhhhhh the real truth.
axa
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Laura,
Think your words about when you rebel against the N they break the mirror. That just sums it all up for me. Once the mirror is reflecting the "wonder" of the N it is tolerated but show some truth and the game is to break you. I remember having a row with XN and pointed out that I am only telling the truth, which he hated, his response was you are holding up a mirror to me and I do not want to see what you are showing me............. ahhhhhhhhh the real truth.
axa
During the divorce and struggles leading up to it, my N always said that he was just a reflection of me.
I never understood it.
I always took it to be one of those "I have become you, and you have become I" statements.
Not really sure, it was just confusing.
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Lighter,
Ns seek out others who hold traits etc that they do not possess. By attaching to such an individual they "claim" these traits as their own. So if you are generous, they are generous, if you are smart, they are smart but beware when you stop being the idealised one because you then reflect negative emotions and they are perfect and so the war begins.
axa
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Two things caught my eyes in the posts that you all shared: extensions and talents
X used to say "people are just enhancements" that's all they are."
As far as latching onto you because you have something they don't have, and then ditching you when you dare to point out any negative or appear negative toward them...been there too. In my case, it involved my musical ability and preaching. X wanted me to use both in front of her, but when I did, nothing but criticism came forth. I even taught X to play an instrument, which was VERY SHORT LIVED. X didn't seem to stick with anything for long.
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Axa:
I don't know whether I'm just too simple a creature or what but..... it made me dizzy to read your post and my mind popped before I could make sense of what you said.
I can't make sense of N's. I can't do it.
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ligher,
Maybe that is just it, there is no sense .... they live in a parrallel universe as far as I can see with its own set of rules which change with the wind.
I studied psychology at college and had an understanding of NPD but having lived with it - well the experience was something else. My rule is never believe them, never trust them, never allow them in. I think having read Storms post about the sociopath it confirms my own truth and experience.
axa