Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tayana on June 25, 2007, 03:37:24 PM

Title: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: tayana on June 25, 2007, 03:37:24 PM
It's a very slow day at work today, so I was doing a little research.  I found this article.  It's my mother to a tee.  I thought I would share.  If I had any doubts about her not being an N, this pretty much erased them.

http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm (http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm)
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Ami on June 25, 2007, 08:13:08 PM
THhs is so mind blowingly true that I am speechless. Thank you so much for posting it. It confirmed and validated me today and I needed it .
   I think that this article  added special little touches that Vaknin missed. I like the part about the physical abuse that might not be actual hitting,but not relieving. your pain. My M used to put me in my room when I was sick and just leave me there--- no comfort, attention etc.. I remember that my father would come in at night and turn my pillow over ( when I had a fever). He would say that he "put it on the 'cool" side." I would just love that little bit of attention. I just thought my father was "so wonderful" for those little tid bits of kindness.
   Today, I started "forgiving" my M .After reading that article, I would like to beat her to death with my bare hands                                                               Love   Ami
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Hopalong on June 25, 2007, 09:52:49 PM
I don't know who wrote the article of what the source of their opinion is, but if it's an objective portrait of a narcissist-mother, I have to say...my mother is not that.

She has many narcissistic traits, including some portrayed in the article, but she is not that. I want to revert to calling her "Nish". I count myself lucky.

I'm so sorry that many people here have endured the full list described from their full-tilt Nmothers, from manipulation to abuse...so many, many baffling cruelties.

Hops
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Ami on June 25, 2007, 10:49:49 PM
Dear Hops,
   Mine is totally that .                                                         Love   Ami
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: tayana on June 25, 2007, 11:06:21 PM
Ami,

Mine is so totally that list too.  My T even called her crazy. 

Tonight she said when she gets ready to die, she's going to take all of her jewelry and sell it so that my dad can use the money to pay for her cremation.  The jewelry was supposed to be mine.  I collect jewelry, and she had always promised me that I could have her diamonds.

I just wanted to say, "Why don't you go ahead and disown me, because it certainly seems like you want to."

I did not know that my aunt and uncle had commented on her craziness until I talked with my brother tonight.  I was amazed.
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Hopalong on June 26, 2007, 12:59:36 AM
I believe you all, and I admire
you for your determination
to heal from these "mothers"...

(((((((()))))))))

Hops
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: JanetLG on June 26, 2007, 04:58:17 AM
Tayana,

What a brilliant description of N mothers.

When did the writer get the chance to observe MY mother, though? :shock: He's got her to a T. Spooky. So may behaviours that, as he describes, can be so easily dismissed by others if you try to explain them later.

Janet
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Ami on June 26, 2007, 07:16:35 AM
Dear Hops,
   Just a thought and I could be totally wrong. It seems like a real NPD personality type could not have been a beloved teacher for all those years.
  I think that a full blown NPD could not function like that without "incidents.   I bring this up to foster a discussion.
                     Love  Ami
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Hopalong on June 26, 2007, 08:56:42 AM
That's right, Ami. My mother is damaged in ways that made it difficult for her to love, very narcissistic, has many of the N traits...but not with enough of an edge to qualify her for a full NPD diagnosis. She's close, but on the continuum, not at its outer limit.

She is simply very very N-ish. Totally self-absorbed, manipultive, entitled, lacking empathy, but without conscious cruelty. She was damaged by her daughter-abusing, entitled preacher father. But she has done good in her life, and has done the best she knew how. She has a religious and etiquette code that she cleaves to that prevent outright abuse and attack, as so many here have suffered.

The subtle stuff was very hard to identify, to suss out. It was decades of therapy before I was able to understand why I felt so damaged.

Hops

Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: tayana on June 26, 2007, 09:49:15 AM
Janet,

I know what you mean about no one believing you when you mention these traits.  So many people think I'm making things up because when they meet her, she's totally charming.  She puts on a regular little show.

It's a brilliant list.

Hops, it's the subtle stuff I think that hurts more than all the rest.  It's the stuff that leaks through your walls and eats at you for years and years until you finally start believing it.
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Hopalong on June 26, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
Quote
Hops, it's the subtle stuff I think that hurts more than all the rest.  It's the stuff that leaks through your walls and eats at you for years and years until you finally start believing it.


Thanks for understanding, Tayana...that was chillingly well put and very comforting to read.

xo
Hops
 
 
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Lupita on June 26, 2007, 10:39:22 AM
My mom has all those characteristics. All of them. I grew up very isolated all my life.
Thank you for the post Tayana.

You will survive and be successful. You can do it.

God is with you.
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Ami on June 26, 2007, 05:39:27 PM
I think that my H is like Hops mother.He is N  (ish)                     Love  Ami
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: gratitude28 on June 28, 2007, 08:35:36 PM
Hi Tayana,
I have read this one before, but reading it again was like a punch in the stomach. Yes, this is exactly it. It proves it for me, but I always wonder if there isn't someone besides me in my family that sees it.
Love, Beth
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Ami on June 28, 2007, 08:46:51 PM
Dear Beth,
    Her sister described her as "unsentimental".  NPD is so awful and demoralizing that none wants to face it unless they are forced to.
   I was forced to face how horrible she is. I face  it more and more, every day----- how awful she is.Who would want to face "the monster" if they could avoid it?
   In my family no one faces the truth.
   I would have died or gone crazy if I had not face the truth                           Love  Ami
Title: Re: Characteristics of N mothers
Post by: Stormchild on June 28, 2007, 08:51:40 PM
Believe it or not, the author of that piece actually visited this board awhile ago! But it was months back.

I'll see if I can find a link to her posts.

Meanwhile, this really jumped out at me:

Quote
... any time that you tell her you’ve done something good, she counters with something your sibling did that was better or she simply ignores you or she hears you out without saying anything, then in a short time does something cruel to you so you understand not to get above yourself. She will carefully separate cause (your joy in your accomplishment) from effect (refusing to let you borrow the car to go to the awards ceremony) by enough time that someone who didn’t live through her abuse would never believe the connection.

This is a standard game played by abusers. Once you know how to see it, it jumps out at you as if it had been outlined in thick, black crayon. But until you know how to see it, it shimmers and hides under the surface of things. Which is one of the maddening aspects of having an abusive N parent... so much of their stuff is so gaslighty, that very few people can really put it together well enough to see the pattern emerge. So we fight our battles alone.

edit in: here's one http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=3258.msg53834#msg53834

and another: http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=3261.msg53836#msg53836

and another: http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=3368.msg55509#msg55509

and I think this is the thread she popped in on first: http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=3153.msg52736#msg52736

Yeah, this was a while ago. September - October 06. Ten months back.