Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: James73 on July 07, 2007, 09:24:48 AM
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Hey guys as some of you may know Ive had a lot of rage at my past abusers, some of that rage is at myself for letting these people treat me so, some of the rage is at my family and friends for making me weak which is not a fair rage but a rage I feel sometimes and one that I must deal with as my weakness was entirely my own making and part of my learning process as a human being, but most of my rage is aimed at my abusers. Ive just found an article that addresses the subject of confronting an abuser from the perspective of a person who was subjected to massive amounts of abuse far beyond what I have ever endured and perhaps beyond what most people on this board have endured (although obviously everyone's pain is there own no matter how large or how small). Here's the link to the article:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/ritual_abuse/49485
I actually thought about writing this and researching confronting an abuser when I read a comment that Ami wrote about having to confront someone to regain her power thus enabling her to heal (as she felt should could not heal unless she confronted her abuser) as I am feeling the exact same feeling. The need or desire to confront my abusers to help me move on with my life to heal is very great, also I want to regain my power and to take the power away from the abuser who so cruelly took it from me n the first place, I want to punish them and to take away their sick pride in themselves and to generally make people see them as the cruel cowardly turd they really are rather than the powerful wonderful person they parade about. I will never have the extreme homicidal rage that the person speaks of in the above article however my rage does sometimes verge on the homicidal and I struggle to control it and harness it as motivation rather than retribution. But now I have read this article I can see that these feelings are perfectly normal, suppressing my rage and turning it inwards for years will obviously make this rage condensed when it is finally allowed to be released, this is what I am now experiencing. I now know I dont need to beat the living crap out of my abusers, I do not need to confront them, I do not need to take back my power as I have already taken back my power and am channelling it into being a better person and a more productive member of society. So I must move on, use my anger as motivation, eventually forgive my abusers and be at peace once more. Amen to that.
James
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ps I have also come up with a new word, Confrontating, if you wish to this word there will be a copyright applied so be aware that all royalties are to be made out to me, James73.
Thanks :wink:
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Hey James
One piece of advice: be prepared for intransigence if and when you confront.
Intransigence = stonewalling. The abuser doesn't merely deny the abuse, they ignore it, and everything you have to say about it, and if you push them far enough, they ignore you.
Edit you out. Poof! Oh my. You have ceased to exist ;-).
Now, if this happens to you, there are two ways to look at it. The abuser's perspective, and a better perspective. The abuser's perspective is that they have 'won'. They have made their universe afresh, without you and your annoying pesky little facts. Or feelings. Or whatever. Take that, so there, nyaaah nyaaah nyaaah, you can't make me.
This is true. Sort of.
The better perspective is that YOU have 'won'. If, indeed 'winning' is even a part of this. You know, once an abuser walls you out, they have proven what they are. There is no confusion. You have your answer.
A non-abuser will face someone in pain, and face even uncomfortable truths, and try to reach a place of healing. Not so an abuser. They expect all reconciliation to come from you, and come at your expense, always.
Now... when an intransigent abuser walls you out, you really have won the war. They have done you the favor of taking care of No Contact, immediately. You don't have to worry about whether it's right or not, you don't have to worry about whether you can manage to do it or not. They have saved you all the hassle. And done so while pasting a sign on their OWN foreheads, not yours.
Of course, not everyone can read that sign. But that's OK. You are the only one who really needs to!
And best of all, once they've 'edited you out' of their universe, you can begin to heal and forgive them quite quickly, because they really can't do anything more to you! They get what they 'want', after a fashion - but you get what you need. As their gift. A blessing from the curse. Amazing!
Good luck, James!!!!!
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Hey Storm, thanks for that, I will confront them if its their bad luck to meet me again, one N I know will get depressed as his false self will be shattered and he will feel guilty as he is not a total N, the other N will just ignore me, or try to, as he is a total N. I've already totally cut them out of my life however a few of my friends are still in contact with them and talk about them, even the mention of their names makes my blood boil but I am willing to put up with that feeling to stay in touch with my friends and this feeling too will pass in time as my life improves and I have better things to worry about than a few sad pathetic N's :D
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Hi James,
Boy, that's a tough question. I confronted my NMother in a hotel room in Rome,Italy.
She denied all responsibility, became enraged, cut the conversation off & even cried a few tears (for herself) for having a difficult childhood. No remorse. Nothing. I ended up apologizing to her for my gall to ask for a reason as to why she abused me! Unbelievable!
I had waited all my life for that moment. It was NOT what I was hoping for. It was what a should of expected. I don't expect it anymore.
So, I guess victims of N abuse have to have very low expectations. If I would've found this board first, I never would've tried such a thing. I'm not sure I would've turned down a trip to Rome, (which I know would be the smart thing) but I would've just let her be.
That's my experience.
Good luck on whatever you decide!
Bigalspal
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Hey James and Storm,
Storm that is exactly what happens. The only confrontation I did with my N's were *see ya* by this time I was bored with telling them anything because they do not listen nor care. If there was an answer it was about something that had nothing to do with the conversation in the first place. Went something like this
You
How dare you blah, blah ,blah, I am hurt blah blah blah.
Them
ANYWAY I was going to wash my car and then rent a move, blah blah, blah. ( I cease to exist)
WHAT?
THEN
Them
You are the one who is abusive. Look how you are nagging me.
You.
What? I'm confronting you. Your actions. You have caused major harm.
Them
See all you want to do is argue.
You
Your the one who seems to be the one who wants to argue. I am simply making a true statement.
Them
All you do is live in the past. You dwell on things.
You
THE PAST? your past is your present and most likely your future.
Them
So did that a year ago, 9mths, 8,7.6,5, 4 3,2,1 month, 2 weeks and 5mins ago. It's the past.
You need to move on with things. Your the one who has the problem.
And so it goes!
Confrontation never did a damn thing for me. It just made it easier for them to be who they are. If I was to stop confrontation that made them crazy too. They did anything in their power to make me CONFRONT! Until I learned rules of their game. Which was not to play, it was two simple words and then making the move which was *see ya*. Then I won.
Deb
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James,
IME it is a complete waste of time confronting an abuser. I think when we confront there is a presumption that the person will hear/see you and your pain. Abusers see/hear neither. They just don't care. It is impossible to have an honest dialogue with an abuser. Someone once said to me there is nothing you can do when someone just does not care about you at all and this i think is true. So good idea to use your anger to motivate yourself to move on and claim your own life. This is the tack I am taking now
axa
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Small rant warning:
James,
My Therapist kept asking me if I was angry at myself...... yet.
He kept asking every time we met.... for months. He doesn't ask any more, however.
I always found the question puzzling, in any case.
I'm so focused on the unfairness of the abuse and the fact that N blew such a sweet set up..... it never occurred to me that I should/would be mad at myself for allowing the abuse.
I still haven't felt the urger to blame myself or be angry in my direction. ::shrug::
Maybe I'm missing an important point? Hard to say, really.
What I do feel.....
is responsibility for my part in everything that happened.
That breaks down in rational exploration and acceptance of the facts.....
all the red flags I ignored,
the excuses I made,
turning a blind eye and ignoring symptoms....etc.
I had the information I needed to avoid the dreaded N.
I just didn't have the cutthroat ability to cut him off at the knees and dismiss him OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Or with finality in the first place. Why? What happened, that I can fix? HOW TO ENFORCE BOUNDARIES?
I did dismiss him. More than once. I also made the mistake of explaining why.... so he could re formulate and come back after making adjustments that pushed my excuses to the side.
BIG MISTAKE on my part.
I allowed my boundaries to be breached after defending them like a mother tiger.
N circumvented, he cut wires and he covertly infiltrated my space, family and activities.
He entered my life in ways I couldn't extract him from easily.
ALL MY FAULT, but that doesn't mean I'm angry at me.
Now that I see what he did..... I'm still ticked off at HIM!
I'll try to do better next time.
That's all I can do.
Why would being angry at yourself be helpful?
I'd like you, and everyone, to be mindful of speaking to yourself with a kind voice, with care, with encouragement.
I did that last night, mindfully aware of the tone and words I chose while completing a project I''ve been procrastinating over for months.
Not only did I finish the project, it looks great and I feel good about it.
I didn't have to beat myself up and I still don't understand directing anger at ourselves as normal or functional.
I'm still so angry at N I could spit,
and sometimes do.
Most importantly, I've given up hope that my N will ever be acceptable to be around or capable of being anything but a sociopathic monster.
That's what he is and I don't have any illusions about that any more.
It took a while to reach this place.
No more yearning or longing..... just sadness or anger and that's better.
That's healing.
The next step, IMO, is thinking about him less and less, until one day I wake up and find myself surprised that I haven't thought about him in a long time.
I'll filled my life with other things and people.
I can only hope that I make better choices, mindfully, every day.
I'm aware of HOW to do that. I'm just not so great at withstanding a full bore assault from an N/sociopath who makes it their business to say and do what certain things in order to gain nice people's trust.
My best advice to everyone is to trust your first gut instinct and don't question it, no matter how tempting the N is after they've made adjustments and started dazzling you with exquisite words and actions you would have killed for in the first place.
I'm even questioning the rule I have where I say.... "that is unacceptable behavior and if you do that again I will know that you don't want to have a relationship with me."
Screw that. ::Crossing it off list of communication skills::
You did something that crossed a boundarie, you're outtahere! No second chances and no more explaining what you did.... so you can fix it and fool me!
HMPH! Take that sociopathic N's of the world!
::practicing saying "No thank you, I'm not interested No thank you, I'm not interested No thank you, I'm not interested::
At this time, I'm moving into a place where I'm about normal (at times.)
I'm upset less.
I'm looking forward to my life more.
I'm opening doors and walking through..... I'm breathing different air than the air I breathed while with my N.
While under his control.
While fearing his moods and cruel words and yearning for kindness..... fairness..... to be valued, not overvalued then plunged into the cycle of the devaluation process. It was so confusing and painful and destructive.
I understand now.
I'm NEVER GOING BACK!
Yikes. Did I just jinx myself, lol?
Not sure but, in any case, I had to talk about the anger and write about the anger and think about the anger and beat it to death over and over again until I was DONE doing it then the nexp phase could begin.
That's how we heal, IMO.
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I'm breathing different air than the air I breathed while with my N.
another one, Lighter.
:) :) :)
Hops
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James,
It is likely you will be ignored if you confront many Ns.
However it is also possible that you may be on the receiving end of an aggressive and continuing whisper campaign of character assassination and harrassment, including attempts to harm you professionally and isolate you socially, especially if the confrontation becomes public knowledge and can lead to a public disgrace of the Ns facade.
Confronting an N can be akin to confronting a rattlesnake. If their belly is full and the weather is cold they'll often go crawl in a hole. If prey is in short supply and they're hot and bothered they'll turn their attention to you and keep it there. You should carry a big stick and be prepared to use it repeatedly.
mud
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WOW James-
One think that struck me was the abused person's need for validation of their reality. When I was in traditional therapy(,many times), the therapist,by the nature of the therapy does not say,"Me,too."
I think that my main problem was that I was beaten down so badly that I did not trust myself any more. If I can reestablish that mind gut route , I think that I can heal.
I think that my route to healing is simple-- but unearthing the layers is really hard Love Ami
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Hey guys thanks for all you insights! they are really helpful to me in understanding things, lighter your one about filling your life with people and things to do, positive things, thats the way to expunge an N your right, also Ami and others mentioned gut feelings which ive read on here before too, too many signs and warnings ignored can only lead to a crash much like driving a car really I suppose and id never ignore warning signs whilst driving so I shall transfer that skill or process into life :D
Love you guys
James
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HEy James,
I am so glad you brought this up. Confronting the abuser. Would that not be the be all and end all if you could just say in most perfect words and will your heart on fire what you so much want to say them and have them feel remorse? I think it would be very very healing. Except Ns don't have empathy and don't feel remorse. They rationalize their behaviour and their abuse of you. In thieir minds it never happened and you are psycho to think something happened. Everyone said this to you in their way and boy is it true. For your own sake, so you don't have to go through further character attack and blitzkreig from these bozos, resist confronting the abuser.
Really I think it is allll about you. The healing needs to take place in you. These guys are poison.
If you need to tell your story more tell it here. We listen and care.
These Ns will be rubbing their hands in glee to have Got ya one more time and then you might end up wanting to blow them up with dynamite or something. Stay with friends dear James. You are such a dear great guy.
Sea sorm
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I forgot to say that I have been fantacizing about confronting my X. This advice comes at a good time.
O fee; so amgru. Whoops that is not Gaelic. It says I FEEL SO ANGRY. What do I do with the rage I finally feel about being abused and slandered and swindled????? What was it in me that let me get into such a humilating and subjugated place?
O FEEEE SSSSSSSSO AMGRU. The curse of the Scots on narcissists.
I don't want to make this about me. James hang on there and don't contact N.
Love,
Sea storm
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The best confrontation for an N is ignoring them, forgetting them and living well without them.
Ignoring them is a violent act, in their opinion.
Simply delivering an honesty is an affront.
Whenever I told my N the truth, he asked me why I was being mean to him.
I wasn't trying to be mean... I just wasn't saying anything he'd approved or scripted for me to say, lol.
Those days are over.
I don't need any confrontations and I'm about over wanting everyone to know "the truth."
I tell everyone I come in contact with a short 15 minute version of the facts.
I may still tell some of his extended family members the truth, not sure about that yet.
I don't dread how this will affect my life any more. I simply observe what does happen so I can compare it to the dread I've had over the last 9 months.
I'm interested in how my fear stacks up to the reality.
I'm going to live well, damnit, lol.
THAT's my CONFRONTATION with my N.
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Light,
You make me smile with happiness.
Love,
Sea storm
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I now know I dont need to beat the living crap out of my abusers, I do not need to confront them, I do not need to take back my power as I have already taken back my power and am channelling it into being a better person and a more productive member of society. So I must move on, use my anger as motivation, eventually forgive my abusers and be at peace once more. Amen to that.
Definitely Amen to that!
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James,
Are you there?
What got you going on confronting your abusers? Maybe we can help.
Best to you,
Sea storm
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Ignoring them is a violent act, in their opinion.
Yep! You've got that pegged, Lighter! It makes doing violence against them so easy. :D
I agree with your philosophy 100%...It just isnt worth it to me anymore to confront. I just do not want to be bothered. When you have done it over and over again with miserable results, it's not worth doing any more.
CB
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James,
I confronted my abuser, several times. It never did anything except make me feel terrible. Right now my mother has done the very thing I wanted to do. She won't speak to me. She wants nothing to do with me over something I never even said. I can't say that I'm sorry. she never has a kind word to say, not about my new house, or my kid or anything else. When I've confronted her about how much she's hurt me, she turns it around and makes it so that I'm the one at fault. She will never take the blame or credit for anything she's done to me. My father is just as bad. He's not an N, but he sides with my mom unfailingly. Even when he knows she's wrong.
I'm done with confrontations. I'm just going to fill my life with positive people and things, and if my parents don't like that, so be it.
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I'm glad you're smiling with happiness, Seastorm. That makes me smile too.
CB..... I've always believed that withholding communication is the most violent thing we can do in a relationship.
With N's... it's taken to another level because it's their drug. It's something they depend on. It doesn't even matter what we're saying, they just want to keep doing what they do and see us jump around like little puppets on a string.
Their behavior and control over us is the string.
I'm pretty sure I'm done bouncing for N's benefit.
The fact that it actually causes him discfomort, like my truth and confrontation never could, is enough to keep diriving me ahead with NC rule.
That's the only thing I have to make him feel pain? That's what I'll do and the grandest side affect may be that he replaces me quickly and leaves me alone for good.
What a world I've found myself in. ::shaking head::
I will say this..... I spoke to him over a week ago and I shouldn't have. I knew I shouldn't have. I did.
I forgive myself. I broke the NC rule and understand more fully WHY I must have it in place. What I did get to say, I wish I could take back. It was honest so he found it cruel but damnit... I got to say my truth and he cried and I play it back in my head sometimes.
I needed to say those things and I did. James, you may need to say some things FOR YOURSELF, to your N. Just don't get the idea they'll hear a word or process it or it will get in and make sense to them.
It won't.
They already have their version of reality and you're just a little puppet jumping about on as string... a prop in their play that stars them as the only REAL PEOPLE.
They won't get it. They won't register the awful things they've done. They don't want to get it and they won't. If you speak to them, SAY THE THINGS THAT YOU MUST GET OFF YOUR CHEST and say them FOR YOURSELF. Just to send them out into the universe.
You're N won't hear it and if they do it's only to turn it around and accuse you of the things they do and cause confusion and doubt where you should have only clarity and resolution for yourself.
It's never ever a satisfying conversation with an N.
I got satisfaction out of speaking my truth but I don't for one second think that my N understood a word I said. It's like he speaks another language, it's like speaking with an emotionally retarted child when I talk about my feelings. He's very bright physically and in business. In personal, he's an idiot and I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean..... really and truly..... he can't do any better and it's not personl.
HE CAN'T DO ANY BETTER bc he's broken and can't be fixed. I get that now. I don't get satisfaction out of driving my head into that brick wall, never did.
Well..... maybe just a little that last conversation because of one point in particular. It's done now. I hope I can stay strong and keep to the (NC) code. ARRRRGH!
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Hey guys thanks for all your advice and support it helps me greatly. Sea Storm sometimes I just feel the desire to **** these guys up from time to time as old rage surfaces and dissipates into the ether, i understand it and control it but that doesnt stop the need/desire for it so I thought talking about it and taking on other viewpoints would be a good idea for me and anyone else who may be experiencing similar issues.
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CB,
Yes yes yes I recognize that!
I can't imagine how stuck and trapped you felt. Your bravery amazes me.
What a long road you've walked. I know those "rules", those parlysing rules.
My mother's talking AT me was absolutely incessant. It nearly drove me mad.
James,
Wise James. Of course.
You're doing healthy stuff, boyo.
So proud of you!
love you both,
Hops
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My N isn't an ignorer.... he just keeps turning things on their heads till you can't see straight.
He accuses me of doing EXACTLY what he's doing and won't shut up until I pass out. He goes on and on and on and on about things he's lying about. Bald faced, tear stained scary assed believable lie after lie after lie after lie.
It's nauseating, truly.
I don't want to hear them any more.
I also wanted him to know that I know he's still lyinh.
I wanted him to know that he'll never ever everevereverever.....
ever ever.......
ever........
cheat......
on.....
me......
again.
Now all I have to do is stay away from him and be happy with out children. ::nodding::
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Hi James,
I understand that anger and the desire to extract vengence. Those scum sucking, bottom feeding, potlickers. As a matter of fact they are simpering, disgusting, hateful putrid soul sucking morons who should have their asses kicked and have three flat tires per week.
Also, I would enjoy imagining a fire hose attached to their mailbox and making soggy toilet paper of their laminated floor. I would like to put fibre glass in their underwear so that they are always in itchy underwear. Talking does no good to these friggin right lobe challenged psychos with no capacity for empathy or conscience.
James can you think of further punishment for these dog breathed (sorry dogs)
inadequate abusive violators of everything that is good and decent?
I am soooo enjoying this. It is safe here to do this venting. I am laughing.
We can't change those ...... but maybe helping people who have been abused is some kind of rediemption.
Love,
Sea storm
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Ah, now, here ye go... some nice Irish curses to round off the tune!
http://web.ncf.ca/bj333/HomePage.curses.html
http://www.corsinet.com/trivia/irish_curses.html
Edit in: actually, sea storm, yours are better. Even more inventive and amusing.
;-).
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Hey guys thanks for your support, love the cursing too :P Cursing someone isnt really being forgiving but hey it feels darn good! :lol:
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When its time to forgive then it happens. Give it over to God. I think it comes in a way that we could never have forseen. Until then some of those Irish Curses are quite satisfying. May your teapot leak etc.
Who cares about THEM dear James. You are the lovely guy who is worth so much more than them.
As for the anger. I don't know what to do with it either.Sometimes I notice that an hour goes by without thinking about the abuse and that is progress.
Love,
Sea storm
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Lighter,
I had a cry baby as well. Did yours carry a toilet roll to mop up his crocodile tears.
BEWARE OF MEN CARRYING TOILET ROLLS.
axa
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CB
Just remembered one time we had guests, his inlaws, a most unusual occurence and he complained about the fact that they used so much toilet paper.... I definetly need Freud to figure this one out. Maybe the toilet roll represented me... he did not want anyone else to have the use of me so that he had all the opportunities in the world to wipe his snotty nose on me. UGH!
Whatyatink of my theory?????????? Oh and he always bought cheap toilet paper El Cheapo Creepo
Axa
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Mine didn't get confronted much, Axa. He didn't need to cry very often: (
He did act very wounded and hurt whenever he was faced with something very big that he couldn't cover up easily. He'd pull out the croc tears and say how devastated it was to be unjustly accused.... blah blah blah.... hard to keep the pressure on a pathetic sniveling cry baby who asks for pity, outright.
Whatever in the world did yours do with a roll of toilet paper in his hand all the time? Did he really carry it about, like a nasty little doll..... or..... something?
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Used it to mop up his fake tears!!!!! Oh that snivelling baby will I ever forget it! This is the guy who told me he NEVER does anything he does not want to do and then would plead his disgusting behaviour - obsessivly watching porn, was not his fault it was a demon who had possessed him!!! Of course he was not responsible.
axa
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Mine said he had devils inside him too... .referring to sexual addiction.
I think he's truly the devil himself. I think he doesn't have one little connection to anyone in his life. We're all just people to be dominated and stone from. He steals sympathy and that makes him feel good. Being viewed as a victim makes him feel good.
Subjugating people makes him feel good.
WInning and stealing things he's not entitled to feels good to him.
At some point he'll get too old to prey on women the way he does. He'll probably put a gun in his mouth from boredom in the end.
I just read THE SOCIOPATH NEXT DOOR. Got quite a bit out of it, actually. It really does suck to be a sociopath. We're much better off than they are and our lives have a rich texture and depth that they'll never know, much less understand.
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I wouldn't say "great" book but it's quick and if you get a copy that's not missing too many pages..... it's a good read; )
ps whatever happened to the lady who had the baby with the lazy N who quit working and wouldn't even look at the child? My copy was missing that part: /