Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Tweety on July 24, 2007, 07:40:03 PM
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Hey Everyone :D,
As you know I'm new here. Bear with me this might not come out and make sense. :(... I have just come to the realization, or I should say have truly accepted the fact that I was raised by an emotionally barren, unavailable, feeling not allowed, never apologised her way or no way very loud Mother. Than I was married to a man very much like her accept i thought he was different because he was quiet, but he was also very sneaky I came to find out. Than i was just involved with a man more like my mother than My husband who was loud, he appeared to have feelings , but he was all over the place with them. The one thing that they all had in common was twisting everything and making it my fault. The deep shame that I had ( the reason i say had is because the light has Finaly come on) I was more than happy to be the peace Maker and apologise and try and sort everyones feelings out because that was my job , and THEY LET ME say I'm sorry even when they new it was them. Each one of them counted on me caving. Oh yea i had boundaries and spoke my mind and stood up for myself, all they had to do was manipulate me, usually with silence, slamming doors the cold shoulder, yup worked like a charm and there i was trying to make peace. Be the responsible one the healthy one talking about feelings. I have beat my head against a brick wall with these people, made every excuse for them all.....N's com in all shapes and sizes. I'm am so happy to finally see this all for the truth and the denial has been lifted. I could always intellectually tell you it was them and what they were doing, but my heart always sent me back trying harder every time to reach these people. So now here i am feeling partly great and partly like a fool for letting them all play me and counting on my heart to make me cave. I realise with each relationship i was trying to get through to these men as some sort of subconscious reenactment to reach my mother I get all that. But now here I sit, these people all have lives with partners and I'm just here realizing this at 43, my God I was so abused as a child and I feel manipulated and brainwashed or should I say trained to take on everyones feelings because they all had none.. It was second nature to me to just jump right in try to fix everything. i just reacted my way through life with these people , and they just sat back and What!!!!! were they laughing? do they realize what they are doing? Is it subconscious for them? I gave them my all, my heart and soul, each and everyone of them. i almost feel like they stole from me. I do realise i am an adult and I stayed until I couldn't stay anymore with them, but that feeling like i would never give up on them, were they ever really there for me? They projected so many of there unfelt feeling onto me . i did the job of two people.......... Now i almost feel stupid, and ashamed for not seeing any of this sooner.
Thanks for letting me vent
Tweety
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((((((Tweety))))))
Rearrange the "loud"s and "quiet"s... and that's the story of my previous life.
Welcome to a new day! 8)
I hope you'll post away and I'm sure you'll be amazed at the results.
With love,
Hope
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Thank you Ami & Hope,
Yes I guess you can say I stepped out of denial.......well at least I'm walking out of it instead of dancing my way around it :lol:
I guess it was God's time to take the security blanket off my eyes and heart so that I could finally see the truth........Hey I guess that means I'm getting stronger, more healthier. Next month will be 1 year since my breakup with the ex boyfriend and I have spent it single, working on myself , going to therapy, going to 12 step groups (Al-Anon). There wasn't a man who came into my life and I couldn't understand why, ( got very lonely at times) a friend of mine said to me "God wants you all to himself right now" and that really helped and comforted me, Because by the Grace of God I was in a relationship with myself for the first time in my life and I guess thats what it took to be able to see all this and start to heal. The restraining order will be over in Sept ( the ex boyfriend) and I hope I'm strong enough to deal with him if he tries to contact me.
Tweety
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Dear Tweety,
My intuition tells me that you will be strong enough, my Friend. I like the comment that "God wants you all to Himself. That is beautiful Love Ami
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Dear Ami,
I hope your right! Does your intuition tell you if I will meet a new healthy man anytime soon....... :lol: Well I'll tell you one thing If he does contact me ( Which of course part of me wants him to, you know, did he really love me, is he sorry etc) but of course I'm sure I'll get some kind of twisted answer, so hopfully that feeling will pass by Sept. I will be typing away so you all need to be on stand by.
Love Tweety
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Now i almost feel stupid, and ashamed for not seeing any of this sooner.
No shame or stupidity – brilliance for seeing it for what it really was!!!!!
Many never see it and live their entire lives following a pattern of beliefs that are not their own, and end up miserably unhappy, and never understanding why. It is an extremely hard veil of lies and deceit to see, let alone break through, as you have been brainwashed from day 1 to believe that this was your role in life.
Congratulations for seeing it and breaking through!!!
(((((Tweety)))))
Peace
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Dear Tweety,
I can see that you still feel connected to him. It will pass the longer you are away from him. Also,as you heal, you will find him more repulsive than attractive, I think. He might be attractive in the 'bad boy" way, but your" regard and love for yourself part "will not think that it is worth it(IMO) . Keep writing and reaching out and you will get through it Love Ami
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Besee, Peace and Ami
yes, I am very hard on myself . It is very hard to forgive myself for not seeing this stuff. especially since I'd like to think I'm an intelligent woman. Thank you for the compliments. It does make me angry now ( Not good at anger) as I'm sure you all figured out, I turn it on myself, I start out being angry at them , but then doubt myself and turn it on me. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, kind of like going to the hardware store expecting to buy bread. ( looking for love and compassion from them) But its hard to see the truth when there were parts of them that almost seemed human. And yes Ami , I believe you are right about him, my self worth will outway any feeling I had for him and I will be able to put him behind me. Its almost like I am standing here alone for the first time in my life , and just emotionally maturing now and trusting myself and my instincts.they have always been right on the money, but I was taught to not listen to myself,
well thank you all for the quick responses.
Hopefully I will be a savvy shopper now.
Love tweety
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Hi Tweety,
I'm sorry, sweetie. It is tough to be surounded by N's. Being ganged up on! I hate that!
I think the crucial difference between you & your mother & husband is -you have a HEART.
They don't. You always want to believe they'll change, everything will be different. Because you are not an N.
That was MY mistake, too.
They are out for THEM.
I hope you feel better soon.
Love,
Bigalspal
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Dear Tweety,
What you have realised, although it's a shock, is something that many people shy away from for the whole of their lives. Facing up to the N's that have been in your life DOES make you feel an idiot at first, especially as most of us here like to think of ourselves as intelligent, sensible human beings (Most of the time, anyway :) ).
But that's what the N's go for - the way we feel bad about ourselves, and the way we always take on what they won't. We spend all our time apologising, trying to change because they tell us to (or hint at it).
I'm 45, and you're 43. Loads of us are in our 40's or 50's on here. It seems it takes half our lives to notice what's happening. But you've still got what's in front of you, and it'll be better than what's behind you.
As to whether you'll find a good man, eventually...I never believed I would. I lived on my own for nearly 2 years after splitting up with a violent Nboyfriend. Couldn't risk trying again. Then I happened to see a 'lonely hearts' ad in the paper, and I thought, well, it's worth a try.
We celebrate our 14th wedding anniversary next month.
Janet
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Dear Janet,
It is beautiful that amidst our pain we do get beautiful things --- like your marriage. It is so nice to imagine you being loved and supported after your hell with your mother . Love Ami
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:D
Janet, that brings me joy. I'm so glad you found each other.
If you don't mind telling, can you remember anything about how you first "read" this good man?
How you saw Green Flags instead of red ones?
Was there something different about him on the first date?
Vicariously, affectionately,
Hops
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I started to say "self-forgiveness" and then I got mad, isn't it ridiculous that one has to practice self-forgiveness for not seeing and understanding N when one isn't an N, but I got the feeling you are judging yourself, I'm glad there are sweet beings in the world
Hey, Tweety and everyone,
Find myself sometimes beating myself up for "not seeing" or knowing what was happening.... I wonder if we could reframe it to a place of gratitude rather than a" mistake that needs forgiveness' sort of thing. Maybe, "I am grateful that today was the day I finally saw that thing." Feel the blessing of today without punishing ourselves for not doing it sooner or better. Maybe today was the perfect timing. The right circumstances for you to feel safe enough to face things. Perfect timing for the denial to slip gently away.
Really enjoy your spirit, Tweety. Hope to get to know you better.
--mof4
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Hops,
I'm very aware that so many people on this board are in bad realationships, so I don't want to come across as smug when I talk about my husband. I lived for 6 years (off and on - he kept going back to this mother) with a violent N first. When I got shot of him, I was *determined* that I'd NEVER have a relationship with a man again, as I just thought I couldn't pick a good 'un! (The fact that my NMum and NSister had picked the violent one is another story).
Anyway, after living on my own for a couple of years, I really felt I wanted to share my life with someone (other than my 2 cats, that is), but I was so wary. I saw this advert in the local paper on the 'Lonely hearts' page, as I was peeling the potatoes onto it! I wasn't that determined to find someone, you see :?
Anyway, I got the courage to respond to his ad, because it sounded so 'normal' - none of this 'sporty/active' type stuff or 'no obligation relationship' kind of code-words in the ad for something I didn't want at all...I just wanted a normal person!
When he got my letter, he rang me up, and we talked for about an hour. He had a very soft, gentle voice which put me at my ease immediately. One of the first things he told me was 'I've just got divorced, and I've got two lovely children, and I love them a lot'. I thought that was so sweet! It transpired that he was a teacher at the school that I used to attend, and that helped, because I could 'test' him on a few facts, to see if he knew about the building, the staff, etc. Just basic stuff, but it made me feel safer. We agreed to go out to the pub on the Saturday night. I remember telling my Nsister that I was going to meet him, and she was immediately negative (she hates teachers, as she's thick).
When he called at my flat, I hid in the room that looks out onto the porch from the side, so that I could sneak a look at him before opening the door. We went to the pub, and got there early (about 7pm). We started talking, and the next thing we realised, was that the place was completetly filled up, and we han't noticed at all. A few months later, we both admitted that it had taken about half an hour before each of us separately thought 'I want to marry this person'.
How can that happen so FAST? When we BOTH were going to be sooo careful?
I've never regretted it. He's my best friend. I love him to bits. He's done so much to help me heal from the N's in my life.
Sorry if this is sloppy. :D
Janet
PS After I'd known him about 18 months, and we were preparing for our wedding, my NMum caught us snogging at her house, and said 'You should have calmed down by now!' Hmmm. Just before our wedding? We still say we should have calmed down by now, each time we snog!
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Janet, (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/rose2.gif)
I love this story. I really do and from a 'lonely hearts ad' covered with potato skins!
I love it!
Izzy
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Dear, Mo4, BigAlsPal and Janet,
Thank you all sooooo much for your support. Janet it is so great to hear "success" stories, I'm loving the potato peeling that's great, gush away if you would about it, I need to know that there is hope and a light at the end of this tunnel.
Love Tweety
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Dear Janet,
It is so precious that you and your H have each other. It is a true love story. I have heard several famous people talk about similar love stories with their spouse..
You are so loved by the Man above that He gave you a best friend and a husband, It is beautiful that you have someone to take care of you. It is the way that it "should" be ,but for many people is not.
I love to thing of you taken care of by your Hubby Love Ami
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That's a joyful story, Janet, I'm so glad to hear it.
Warms my heart.
Thank you!
hugs,
Hops
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Tweety-
Ns are like vampires- they feed upon feeling, giving people. They can also be masters of disguise (but eventually must reveal their true natures). You are freeing yourself and the best is yet to come (look at Janet!). By the way , Janet's sweet love story would make a lovely movie in the hands of the right screenplay writer! Tweety, keep posting!
Hugs,
Changing
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Dear Changing,
Yes, Vampires. That just resinates with me so much. I always felt like I was doing all the N's feelings for them, because they had none. Explain this to me. "They are feeding on my feelings" so they don't have to feel? Also what is going NC? Do you tell them or you just do it?. I just read that web page on the characteristics of N mothers and just got blown away. Once I had children I always felt like I had been replaced ,as far as she was concerned, which really was OK with me. I wanted my children to have a great relationship with their grandparents and I don't begrudge them anything. But lately as they have gotten older, she really seems to have relegated me to a nobody. She has caused problems between my daughter and I and I couldn't figure it out, until just now, I'm so upset and angry My daughter is my Nmothers "Golden" one that I just read about. I'm sooooo angry that she has manipulated my daughter against me at times. My daughter and I have a solid healthy relationship thank God but after reading that last night it all makes sense. I'm soooooooo angry and betrayed, how does one manipulate your own grandchild against your own child. It hurts us both( My daughter and I) . I have come to terms over the last few months about my nmother that I have distanced myself emotionally from her and not gone to her for any emotional support etc. But now after realising these manipulations of hers I don't even want to see her again. I'm feeling betrayed, she uses my own children for her benefit to hurt me by making them important and me unimportant. This is so hard for me because of course I want my children to have things from her , but now I realise she is doing it just to put me down. She has given them both (My children) money for their cars, while I am struggling with a 10 year old one, never once did she ask if I needed help. In my mind I always said my children come first, and they do to me, but now this puts a total spin on everything and she is doing this to hurt me. She actually came right out and said to me , grandchildren are more important than children... I am really starting to feel hate for her... God forgive me.
Tweety
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Dear Tweety,
NPD plays its target's feelings like a violin. Stroke this way and bask in the high notes, that way and revel in the low tones, hammer the bow on the instrument... and then smash the violin into the wall, because it didn't play right.
No Contact is something I had to just do, without talking about it. Talking about it only issues a challenge to N. He may soften his approach in an attempt to woo you back (and woe to you if his wooing works) or he may opt to lash out in an attempt to punish you and - as you may have learned - that can be very dangerous. If he woos and that doesn't work, then punishment is sure to follow. Because of the predictability of this whole scenario, I vote for immediate no contact with no discussion.
I'm so sorry about the situation with your mother. That's also quite predictable, as I've come to learn, but it's no easier when you discover all this after the fact, because... what in the world can we do with it now?
I try to banish regrets, but... oh, if only I'd known then, what I know now.
((((((Tweety))))))) the hatred will pass and I think then it will only just seem so sad... very sad, but bearably sad... and hopefully less sad as it all fades into the distance and your life (and mine) goes on, disillusioned... yes - free of illusions - and that is freedom indeed.
As you continue talking this through and posting, so much will come together for you. I wish it wasn't so hard... but we're all here for you.
With love,
Hope
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Dear Hope,
Thank you. All these realizations are comming fast and furiously...wow it's so painful the betrayel...all my life I lived with this...but to be aware that she has used my own children to hurt me and make me insignificate is just toooooooo much for me now. I mentioned in anther post that I am adopted. She adopted me to cover up her shame that she couldnt have children, I was just a cover for her to "Be a mother". I was just a ......... I don't know what to her but certainly not a daughter that she loved and nutured. She hated me when I found out the truth..... I never understood that until now, because I "outed" her, her cover ,lies secrets were exposed. Why did God put me with this women? Hope , once you know the truth to something there is no going back. The only way out is through it , and now I really don't know what to do with all this. THat was my question about the NC... I think you misunderstood because you kept saying him ...I was refering to her. I have just been very superficial ,detached emotionaly ( with the help of therapy and AL-ANON) with her for months now and it has been ok, but NOW That I am fully nderstanding all this, how can I have a relationship with her? Jeeze no wounder why denial is so much better lol.... I always wanted to walk away from her and never look back , but what message is that sending my children about family and they do love her, she certainly isnt the same Grandmother that she was a mother( well in some ways she is).........what do you suggest.
Love Tweety
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Dear Hope,
Thank you. All these realizations are comming fast and furiously...wow it's so painful the betrayel...all my life I lived with this...but to be aware that she has used my own children to hurt me and make me insignificate is just toooooooo much for me now. I mentioned in anther post that I am adopted. She adopted me to cover up her shame that she couldnt have children, I was just a cover for her to "Be a mother". I was just a ......... I don't know what to her but certainly not a daughter that she loved and nutured. She hated me when I found out the truth..... I never understood that until now, because I "outed" her, her cover ,lies secrets were exposed. Why did God put me with this women? Hope , once you know the truth to something there is no going back. The only way out is through it , and now I really don't know what to do with all this. THat was my question about the NC... I think you misunderstood because you kept saying him ...I was refering to her. I have just been very superficial ,detached emotionaly ( with the help of therapy and AL-ANON) with her for months now and it has been ok, but NOW That I am fully nderstanding all this, how can I have a relationship with her? Jeeze no wounder why denial is so much better lol.... I always wanted to walk away from her and never look back , but what message is that sending my children about family and they do love her, she certainly isnt the same Grandmother that she was a mother( well in some ways she is).........what do you suggest.
Love Tweety
Dear Tweety,
I'm sorry... NPD is still so engrained in my head as a "him" because of ex... it's just habit.
I understand what you've said about your adoption... and I am sorry; I know it's so difficult... sometimes I've wished that I'd been adopted, although I have no idea what that'd be like, so please forgive my ignorance. And I've wondered whether my mother had me, 10 years after my brother, in order to cover her shame that she'd been unable to "mold" her first child to her satisfaction... to her image. He was too strong-willed and non-compliant for that.
She's not some horrible raging NPD monster, but I can certainly relate to feeling like... an accessory - an object which was intended to decorate her image of perfection... like a silk scarf or a piece of jewelry... or that ceramic rabbit she has on her deck :shock: (That rabbit taught me alot)
You wrote: "I have just been very superficial ,detached emotionaly ( with the help of therapy and AL-ANON) with her for months now and it has been ok, but NOW That I am fully nderstanding all this, how can I have a relationship with her?"
I wish I knew, Tweety. Keeping it superficial and emotionally detached has been my approach since my experience with NPD-ex began to unveil all of this to me. My parents and I are geographically removed by 1,000 miles, so it's not been a pressing question... until our recent visit with them on a trip to their home state caused it to begin to press in on me :?. But we've not had any major blow-ups to this point, so I have the option of leaving the whole mess at the status quo. Except there are a few things I'd like to clear up while both of my parents are still living... I think...
Anyhow, my own children have seen much of my mother's eccentricity and recognize it as such... and maybe yours do, too... but of course they are going to appreciate Grandma's help with purchases of cars, etc. I know that presents a dilemma for you, but I'd be cautious not to involve your kids in stuff that's water under the bridge. I'm sorry, Tweety... wish I could tell you a simple solution, but there is none. It'd be very tempting to try to "out" her totally to your children, but I think that'd do far more harm than good. What I'm noticing is that these people do mellow with age... they shrivel and dry up and become like a bit of chaff in the breeze. Honestly, I'd let her help the kids as much as she's willing and just work on building your own level of knowledge about her...ermm... "condition". I think that in time you'll come to the conclusion that she's really a pathetic creature.
In the meanwhile, do what you need to do to process all these swirling emotions. I wrote A TON... just reams and volumes... none of which I've ever mailed or delivered. Getting it out there (and here) is amazingly liberating. How much of it - if any - you ultimately choose to get "out" to her... well, it's okay to play that by ear. One step at a time is the only way I know.
With much love,
Hope
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Dear Hope,
Great advice, made me laugh as well "ermm" "condition" :Lil:
I think I will keep the status quo of how I have been handling things, it's seems to be working. Everytime she has a "N" moment I will remember "ermm condition" and laugh now and know she is truly sad and just trying to manipulate. I never wanted to get my kids that involved with all the info of her, but just recently stuff came up and it was hard for my daughter to deal with it and me too, so they say knowledge is power. IM not good with my anger, so this is a big step for me to just sit with it and let it run its coarse and it will dissipate, don't have to act on it and do something ...Like walk away like I said. Just sitting with my feelings no matter what they are is a big breakthrough for me, not running around trying to fix everything. So this board is great for me to be able to express and then be herd and validated , so as not to run off half cocked and think I can change the situation. I know now I don't have that power, only God does and in his time not mine.
Love to you and blessings
Tweety