Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on July 25, 2007, 10:20:25 PM
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I am having a wonderful visit with my F. It is beyond any expectations that I could EVER have had. He "gets it" as well as the dearest friend on the board does. That is a miracle.
This is what I am upset about. I feel so badly inside about myself. I feel like I always have to be "on". It is a down deep type of thing. I am on hyper alert. My body and mind are on hyper alert for pain, anger or rejection. I was just starting to get rid of this yeast infection and I could feel it coming back tonight b/c I feel so stressed just being "me". I am SO TIRED of being hyper alert and afraid. I am so tired of hating myself. I am so tired of being uncomfortable in my own skin.
I just need to say these things. I have been making incredible progress, really. I feel much more "real" I don't feel like I have to hold on to myself so I don't go "crazy".
I guess that as I face myself and life, this stress and hyper vigilance will go away. Then, I will not get sick over everyday things.I feel like I cannot cope with the smallest thing without getting so,so stressed.
I just want to be whole and at peace. I guess that I am getting there,but there seem to be so many little baby steps. Maybe, this is how it is when you are coming out of N brainwashing.
I hope so. I wish that I could go faster,but I can't. It is that simple. I am going inch by inch
I feel discouraged with myself b/c I have a mythical 'person" in my mind(given me by my N mother) who does things well. She feels comfortable with herself. She does not get sick over small stresses. She can cope well. She is centered and can stay centered in life. I am not that person and I feel badly about myself-- all the time b/c I don't measure up. I am a little discouraged. Love Ami
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Hi Ami,
Looks like you are feeling just like me.
I feel like a fraud. It's getting better, as I get a chance to be on this board.
I always try to say & do the right things, but I'm never quite sure what that is.
I'm always "on".
Sucks, too. Takes a LOT of energy to keep that script going.
I guess I have to learn who I am.
You are having a major breakthrough. :D
Hang in there!
Love,
Bigalspal
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Hello Ami and Bigalspal!
I can relate to the energy drain that maintaining a facade requires. Sometimes it is less the perpetration of a fraud, and more a survival mechanism. One also wants to support others in a positive way, and not dwell constantly upon one's own battles. That being said, the mask can become less of a protective device and morph into a false identity ( I don't know if you have read Nathaniel Hawthorne's short story about the veil but it is illustrative, somehow, of the traps inherent in going too far in holding one's self and one's true feelings back).
Your honesty and brave self-examination shine through on your posts, and are valuable as a result. I am trying to follow in your footsteps.
Hugs,
Changing
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I know. Its so hard overcoming all that Ami.
I think its a great acheivement, just being able to sit back and observe what you are feeling, and really understanding why. I think its normal to do this for a long while before taking any significant action. No need to feel guilty about that. Its just the `perfectionist' talking.
Ami, from the `outside', I think you are doing well. If you keep striving for honesty, and insight, the actions you take based on these things will eventually become natural. Right now, i think you you have your hands full with the emotional impact of discovering truth.
Take one day at a time, Hon. I promise you, it will become easier:)
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Thanks so much Pal, Changing and Bella,
I just needed exactly the kind of encouragement that you so graciously gave me.
Bella, I have had the feeling like I was going to pass out for a month. It left for one day and now it is back. I always think of you and try not to get upset. I have been missing you, Bella. Thanks for giving me this encouragement
Changing--- That was the sweetest thing that you said . It really helps to know that I really am going on a path to healing. I can lose the forest for the trees. I know that it is worth it--- but going through it, you can lose your bearings
Pal, Thanks for the constant words of love and support. You are a good buddy
Today, I woke up really woozy. I am really, really seeing that there is no one to take care of me ,but me. This is my core lesson. I gave myself up to my mother to do what she wanted ( or she took me).All I wanted was her love and approval., her vote that I really see that she is probably just some "old" woman" like my father is just some "old man'. This fantasy was all in my thinking. I was frantically running on the gerbil wheel for nothing. I am in the place that I was very afraid to be--- alone. I am what I was MOST afraid of--- "abandoned"..All the "magical" thinking was not real.My magical thinking was that if I am sick enough ,my mother will magically appear to take care of me.. If other people like me I will have value. I can find some soft place to fall if I am weak enough. Someone else will take care of me and define me.I can be an appendage of someone else and not be "me".,My value is determined by the outside. My worth depends on others opinions . How I look determines my value. All my running and running on the gerbil wheel was just part of craziness
This HAS to be a huge step. However, I feel the worst I have ever felt. I feel terrible physically.I am woozy, can't sleep, and sick to my stomach I guess that it must be a sort of shock coming out of denial. It has to be. You store all these"unacceptable" feelings somewhere in your body, I would think. You thought that they were so dangerous that you had to hide them. I guess what I am going through is probably normal for the degree of truth and pain that I am facing. I hope so. . The fact that people understand and are willing to walk beside me enables me to go on Love Ami
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Ami,
I just put a couple of things that I know about you together. I have been doing some reading about the raw food diet that you suggested and trying to implement some of what I read. I did notice that there are vitamin deficiencies that you have to watch for--most notably b-vitamins, and several of the sites give strategies for dealing with that and other problems--anemia, etc. I think I even asked you about ideas in the other thread.
Today, when you wrote again about being woozy for the last month, I had a lightbulb moment. Have you been checked recently for things like anemia, b-vitamin deficiency? Those can cause the symptoms you are struggling with, plus others you may not have related together.
Love
CB
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Am-I remember the grief and sorrow associated with breaking out of the fascade and finally acknowledging that I had allowed my mom to run my life. Crying and crying and anger! I am feeling better about my life now but it takes some time. FEEL the grief. Mourn the years between 14 and now. Resolve to get better but do it in your time. Do something out of the ordinary like if you always have to have your make up on, go out without it. Break your mold! You are loved. Pray for perfect peace
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Ami,
You are doing really well - honestly!
You've faced up to so much, it's bound to affect you physically for a while.
Do you use Bach flower remedies? I can't remember which one it is, but there is one that is ideal for dealing with past griefs and family hurt. Does the trick for me when I'm feeling down.
As to the relationship with your Dad - you're at a good point, really. You have the opportunity to start again with him, and build up an *adult* relationship, now, with him. He'll have to treat you as an adult, as two equals. That can make you feel a whole lot better.
You're not alone, even if it feels like it just now. There's us! (Mixed blessing, perhaps, that :o )
Janet
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Thanks CB and Kelly,
CB I will make sure that I check more carefully in to nutritional deficiencies-. -- Thank you for that.
Dear Kelly. thanks for those wise words
Last night , I had this HUGE insight . I was sitting at the kitchen table with my F, two sons and H. All of a sudden , I realized that I do not see life with my own eyes. I have a template that screens life for me. I remembered a time when I was about 14 ,on a trip. I felt real and whole. I looked at life--- as it was. I saw people, their faces, their expressions, etc as they were. I could receive the data as it was. At that moment at the table, I saw life as "real.".. I thought,"I can see life as it is. I don't need any "theory". For me. studying Psychology got me more away from my own reality. I "took" their theories as "my truth" , and abandoned my truth. I had probably already abandoned it before with my mother,but studying Psychology added to it.Also, for me, therapy gave me an "outside truth"Therapy ,for me, took me more away from my gut.( This is just my voice-)
I think that these physical symptoms,such as dizziness, is my body readjusting after all these years of denial. I am starting to be able to see without glasses. My recurrent dream was that I could not see.
My other recurrent dream was that I was abandoned at different places. I am facing that I am alone.
The other thing that I am seeing is that I was trying to navigate life without loving myself. This made me need other people as a "fuel" for life. When, we say "supply" for the N, I realized that I needed supply, too. My life used to consist of me trying to look good, on the outside, so I would get compliments. Then I would feel 'real". Then , I would feel that I had value. I needed those reassurances that I was 'real".Other than when people defined me,I did not feel "real". I have so many clothes, shoes, makeup, pocket books,jewelry etc so that I can look "good" and then I could get compliments and feel 'real" for a short time, at least That is putting my sense of self completely in other people's hands. It is a burden for them and an unworkable solution for me.This reminds me of Lupita's and Steves' threads. Steve is owning his own space -- mind and body. He is living out of his core. Life works when you do it that way
I started a thread when I first got here about 'Rules for Life-- NPD style. It did not resonate with too many people. However, I am answering my own question,now. I am relearning the rules for life. I am slowly going back and reclaiming what my M stole from me .I think that I am realizing that she could not help it,.. I want to put her in a box where I can keep her and go forward. I really don't think that she could help her thinking process. Vakinin says that the NPD has a punitive Superego and an Id ,but little Ego. The ego is the sense of self.. The Ego allows us to love ourselves and value ourselves. I am re-living times when I was whole and taking back the parts of me that I abandoned.
I just have to go through these uncomfortable sensations, I think. Love Ami
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Dear Janet,
Thanks for being such a dear friend. I will get Rescue remedy out of the drawer. I feel certain that these physical symptoms are emotional. However,taking more B vitamins and homeopathics will help.What I am going through now--- deep. deep healing-- is what people are supposed to go through in therapy.(IMO) However, I,personally,have not experienced this from any other source ,but the board. I think that one of the key factors is that people understand NPD, here. Many people have healed from it's effects and can help newer people to keep on going.This to me, is true therapy. How could a therapist who never went through this journey help someone else.. I,personally, think that the therapist would be threatened and try to take away the healing from the patient.This is why therapy is not for me(my voice,only)
I thought of you ,on the board when my F told me this. My mother works for an M.D -who does therapy. He is autistic, I had to shake my head.A shrink who is autistic-- trying to help people deal with their emotions.People are paying thousands of dollars to a person who has completely shut down his emotions.I do not want to start a controversy on therapy. Each person has to find their own way. I am just explaining My own "voice" . . Love Ami
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Ami-My daughter is autistic and see doesnt shut down her emotions. She cannot express herself verbally-she thinks in pictures. She is emotional. However I could never see her as a therapist.
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Dear Kelly.
I am sorry for any offense. I do not know too much about Autism. I think that there are many forms. For example, in" Rainman"-- with Dustin Hoffman -- he could not deal with emotions., I think.. This shrink is Autistic-. I am not sure what type of Autism. However, I would think that any type of autism would make him ineffective in therapy--. Do you agree? Love Ami.
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Hi Ami! I am so sorry to hear how woozy and anxious you've been feeling lately, hon. I do agree with you, in that what you are experiencing is very likely related to growth and facing truths, such as the fact that you, Ami, are an important, valuable & wonderful woman who deserves to have her needs met. (though I totally agree with the advice about taking your B vitamins, from first hand experience)
Ami, selfish people make you feel that you are doing something deeply wrong when you are not totally catering to them. Perhaps some of what you are feeling is `forboding'?
What do you think?
X Bella
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Ami,
I don't want to be offensive, so please set me straight if my question is unfounded... It may be painful to be asked this, and if it is, I'm truly sorry.
You mentioned that you have had an eating disorder and since your emotional stress affects you with stomach issues as well as the classic panic symptoms (that I know so well)...I wonder if you're eating enough calories, and a healthful diet?
Dehydration and inadequate protein will make a person feel very woozy and weak, as well as missing vitamins. (I know anxiety does it too, that's why I thought it would be worth trying to rule out inadequate nutrition, so you can be sure about what's the most likely cause.)
If you have both issues going on...anxiety plus malnutrition...that would make it tougher to sort out-- but it can be done. You can have radiant health at all levels. (I think that's inevitable, the rate you're growing.)
hugs
Hops
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Dear Hops,
Thanks for caring. I don't have an eating disorder .. I have a hard time eating . I wish that I could eat more. I am trying to make sure that my nutrition is good during this time with extra B vitamins etc. Thanks so much for your concern. What I am having is that I think I am in a type of shock-- facing all these things that I could and would not face. I feel like a person who experienced a trauma. I look like that ,too. When I look in the mirror, I have that blank look.
Today, it started getting better. I think that I went in to an actual numb state at 14.Now,I am learning lessons that I should have learned then.It is a shock for me to face real life when I have been in a fantasy life --- since 14. It literally is a shock.
Bella-- You have been there and walked through these feelings--- right? You said that it took about a month to process the truth? Do I have this right?
The really big thing that I am seeing is that even if you have a good mother-- you still have to find your voice. I thought that if you had a good mother, then you would sail through life lessons easily. I see that you still have to find your individuality. I just stopped growing and maturing at 14. So, I am a stunted person. I have to do what "normal' people do at an older age. I have to do it ,now ..I am hoping and praying that I can catch up to "normal " people.It is really scary to face life. I guess that everyone must feel this way at some stage. I am probably just delayed. Love Ami.
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Hi Ami!
I am so happy that today has been a good day for you. It is so good to hear it, sweet one:)
To answer your question, yes I did experience so many of those symptoms, for around a year of my life (when I was 28-29). The doctors called it an anxiety disorder; it was so scarey because I hadn't felt physical symptoms like those before, and I didn't have an explanation. I just wanted to feel like myself again, and instead I felt like I was losing my mind. It was just so scarey, and I am so sorry to know you're going through it Ami, love.
Oddly, I think the most notable aspect of having an `anxiety' disorder was the lack of anxiety, or any real feelings that I could identify beyond being afraid and upset about what I was going through. I think I was basically numb emotionally (maybe you are right about it being a form of shock, in response to cracking through our defenses and denial?)
I guess its true that strong emotions, when repressed , have a way of finding an outlet in the form of physical symptoms, such as an anxiety disorder, skin problems, or more serious illness. Perhaps the key is to get back in touch with your feelings, Ami? I think this is something you have wisely identified already, and that you are instinctively moving in the right direction.
X Bella
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Dear Bella,
I feel, intuitively, that I am going through what you did. My physical eyes are healing ,as well as I am "seeing" old patterns and distortions. I am feeling more and more "real".This tells me that it is an emotional process.
I think that I am learning life truths that a person would learn in adolesence. One that was really giving me 'dizziness" was that I am alone and separate from my parents. .I did not learn the lesson that I am alone as a separate person.. With My M, she had a big issue woth dependence. She used to ridicule me for being 'too dependent",but I see ,now, that she was sabataging any independence.
The worst thing with N's is that they distort your reality so much . They are sabataging and destroying you in a subtle way. HOWEVER, they are blaming you for the thing.This one quality of NPD was what destroyed me( almost)
I guess that they call it gaslighting. I learned not to trust my gut ,ears or eyes-- only she could tell me what I was seeing and hearing. It was so, so insidious. When ,I was away physically, she was in my head so much that she might as well have been there,physically.
We ,as children, of N's get a huge, huge brainwashing process. After being brainwashed, we carry all the lies and distortions inside us
Bill wrote that beautiful thread to me. The reason that I got so hard on myself was that I took all the N ideas and made them my own. I had her in my head-- directing 'traffic".
The anxiety disorder that I am having( and I don't feel actual anxiety either) is what is happeneing as I face the truth about her, what I took inside me and life in general. I am getting my own eyes and ears back.
Bella, you will never know what your posts mean to me. It is a validation and affirmation of what I am going through. Thanks so, so much. You have given me a great deal of comfort Love Ami
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Thanks so much for saying that Ami; you are such a gem:) I was thinking about this a lot last night... I was wondering what repressed emotions manifest themselves as the symptoms you described, and the symptoms I experienced? I wonder if its highly individual, or if there can be commonalities?
In my case, I don't think it was anger or rage, as repressed rage tends to express itself differently with me, such as bad skin problems, drinking, or eating too much. It must have been something else, but you know Ami, I am having trouble, even now, identifying what it was? I sense it was connected to a mix of painful feelings I couldn't change and didn't want to face, like loneliness, my poor sense of worth, feeling dependent, not liking who I am, and maybe intense dread of being alone too ? Whatever those feelings were., I buried them because even now I can't truly identify them as well as I probably should. But they still affected me, i feel, through my anxiety disorder.
At the time, what was going on for me was I was in pretty hopeless long term relationship with a `party-boy (read: irresponsible drug addict), and it was also the year when I started to speak about my relationship on forums and receive feedback from others for the first time. I didn't like what i was hearing one bit, but I nonetheless embraced the wisdom of the advice i was receiving.
So when my anxiety disorder started, I guess I was feeling a little `cornered' by my knowledge; like, I knew with certainty that my relationship was going to either end , ruin my life, or drag me down very low, and I think I probably buried my enormous fears surrounding that. I buried them through excercise mostly (which was both numbing, and a form of warding off my fears of being undesirable and alone). And for a while I started to drink more regularly, and took antidepressants too...the ultimate emotional suppressant.
The relationship did end, shortly after I started to assert some basic boundaries surrounding our finances and him dealing drugs to people from our home late at night (LOL. I didn't even know what a boundary was before i was 28). He agreed with these boundaries, and then left me for another woman who was also addicted to drugs.
I then I discovered NPD, which was a new form of hell.
But its been 4 years now since I've been away from toxic boyfriends, and the truth is Ami, I still suppress emotions more readily than is probably good for me. Sometimes I think its not altogether negative. I mean we all have to suppress emotions somewhat to get by in society and survive. We can't always operate as emotional creatures. But I think we have to let stuff out too, examine it, work out if its controlling our thinking, or harming us physically. But most of us need a safe place to this. Emotions are the key to our vulnerability and some people will use them to harm us. Thats what I learned about narcissists, and one of the reasons I love my fiance so much. He gives me that safe place, and I am starting to feel again. Its because I am safe now, when before I wasn't safe, and i wasn't valued.
Anyway Its so nice to have someone to discuss this with, my friend. Thankyou for being there for me too. It helps to talk about these things.
I hope that you have a great day:)
X love bella
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Dear Bella,
I think that the things that are making us 'dizzy" are old ideas and beliefs that we accepted about ourselves b/c we had to survive. We threw away our own core and our own true perceptions and accepted 'lies' and distortions. We, probably, did this b/c we would have gone 'insane" to realize that we were with monsters. So, we accepted their reality so that we did not have to face the truth when we were helpless and alone.It was easier to accept that they were right and we were worthless., than to face the truth about them This is my 'theory"
I think that I accepted many basic beliefs about myself and life that became a big brick wall . This big brick wall was made up of lies. They were beliefs like "You have to be perfect or you are worthless. . You are EITHER good OR bad. I think that a really big concept that we do not want to accept is that we were betrayed by the people who were supposed to love us Also, that we are alone and all the pain of trying to please them was totally futile. These are the types of issues that were making me dizzy, I think.
Also, I accepted that I could not trust my own eyes and ears,.Now, I am seeing what is. I see that I cannot stand my H. I see the pain in people's eyes. I see beauty and innocence,also. I am seeing-- myself and others. I am becoming real.The dizziness was the 'birth" in to becoming real(IMO)
Bella, you really,really helped me through this. I was telling my father about you . Thanks so, so much Love Ami
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Bella, your voice is so gracious, and graceful.
Ami, I feel very happy when I think of your father looking at you with kind eyes, and listening.
:D
Hops