Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on July 31, 2007, 11:12:07 AM
-
My sister in low and her daughter, my neasse, are spending twelve days here with me. I explain the her that I am having a difficult time right now. But they did not care. Anyhow., I told them that they have to pay for gasoline if they want to go around. She said that she would pay one tank. She has not offered it yet, I have to ask her. I told them I have two beds and we would take turns sleeping on the floor. They ignore that I have been sleeping on the floor everyday. They did not offer to sleep on the floor. I told them that I wanted them to go to the gym with me. They refused and they cried and called my brother. My brother has not said anything to me. They are spending a lot of money buying things to take home, but they say they do not have money for food. They bought bread ham and cheese. They are eating sandwiches morning and night. I have a very special diet but they do not want to go by my rules. I am about to die because I am disgusted all the time because I am only satisfying their needs and they do not want to do anything for me. I missed my salsa class on Sunday because if them, because the 15 year old girl did not want to go without taking a bath after the beach. She bought a video camera and filmed her mother throwing away two bags of trash, how much help, OMG. I am driving them to the mall everyday. That is he only thing they want to do and they do not care about my company or anything. That is my family, I come from a very selfish family. I feel I am among enemies all the time. I am sacrificing my valuable time for people who do not have a feeling for me. The little girls 15 YO, she asks permission to answer my questions, I only ask did you like this or the other and she looks at her mother and then she answers yes. I told her if she was a robot, and she started to cry. I am extremely sad and I do not know if I am being too sensitive or I am being used. I need to survive nine more days and I feel all my summer has been ruined by my family. I am thinking not to allow them to come back to my house, but just the thought makes me even more depressed. What do you think?
Your ideas are appreciated.
I guess I failed to enforce my boundaires this time.
-
Dear Lupita,
NO, NO, NO--- you are not being too sensitive...TRUST YOURSELF. You are smart. You have good sense. Trust how you feel. Love Ami
-
I don't think you are too sensitive. Too bad they couldn't stay at a hotel. Then you could maintain your boundaries and they could support themselves while they visit and you could enjoy them instead of being used by them. Be so much easier if they weren't family.
mof4
-
Hi Lupita,
I think that you know the answer here already it just feels like you are paralysed from applying it.. You do indeed need to set boundaries down and then work out what it is you need to do to allow yourself to recover from this. Lupita, these parasites know that whatever they do you are not going to complain. To leave you on the floor in your own house without a word is just appalling.... This is your house.. This is your life... Not theirs. Take charge and don't let them take advantage of your kindness and sensitivity. Ami is right when she says trust yourself and be true to yourself... If they don't pay for gas then drive them strainght home.. If they do not want to come to salsa then leave them at home.. Don't allow that. You are worth more.
Don't be disappointed by the fact they do not reciprocate.. and don't expect it any more. Send them home and walk away. You know at the moment I am desperately lonely because apart from my daughter I have cut my family off... But Lupita at least I am calm and grounded... I hate to think of you in that state..
You are worth so much more. It is never never to late to lay boundaries...
Spyralle x
-
Dear Lupita,
12 days is a long time to spend together in close quarters that way... even with people you like!
I do not think that you are being too sensitive at all.
In fact, I think you've been more than kind and generous enough and it would be perfectly fine for you to tell them it's time to go home.
Their visit is far too long, I think. If it were only a few days then you could maybe manage it, but they push so hard at every limit, I wouldn't ever want them to come back to visit again either.
Can they just go home now?
Love,
Hope
-
Hey Lup,
No I do not think you are being to sensitive at all. I think they are being insensitive and rude. I was always taught you respect other people and their homes. I would be the one sleeping on the floor and I would be taking you to dinner and would never let you drive me around at your expense.
They sound like the guest from Hell.
Deb
-
Ummmm, Lupita... I think you already answered your questions.
I'm going to talk about it here so you can internalize it and make peace with it, as much as you can today.
1- These people are selfish but.... if you pay attention, you will see that you are once again very very upset because you let someone step accross boundaries. You should be defending your boundaries, that's your job.
2- I know it's hard to defend boundaries. Partly bc it seems we need to LEARN to defend them over and over again with everyone we encounter. They all have their own style of manipulating us and taking advantage. Plus, it's just uncomfortable and something we're not used to doing.
3- What can you do to take control of the next 12 days back? This doesn't have to keep going down this path with poor Lupita being taken advantage of and not getting her needs met.
4- Let them get around by bus?
5- Post a schedule of your activities and allow them to join or not?
6- Say yes to requests to ferry them around when it doesn't inconvenience you and they have given you money for gas.
7- Smile and act unafected when you have these discussions with them.
8- Take your bed back and let them know that they can settle the sleeping arrangements between themselves on the other bed.
9- This probably won't make you feel any better to DO these things staight away, Lupita.
10- You will begin to feel better later on, just like you did when you asserted yourself with the book club meanies. Feeling guilty then getting over the guilt is sotra a right of passage for us.
11- In the meantime, do nice things for these people when it makes you feel good to do so and enjoy it instead of feeling resentful.
12- Quit skipping the things that are important to you!
13- Make sure you stick to your self care program and eat right, drink plenty of water..... be kind to yourself Lupita.
Hmmm... what have I left out. Ahhhh... handling their aggression and discontent after you've asserted yourself and defended your boundaries.
That's tough bc you don't like conflict and it's hard not to overdo it after holding feelings in for so long then letting go when you've been pushed too far.
Try to have this discussion after you've gone to the gym or showered or danced and feel pretty good. Don't address these things when you're about to explode.
You can lay out the rules and let them know what you're willing to do and not do without raising your voice, blaming or accusing them of wrongdoing.
::Sigh:: (((Lupita))) It's soooo much easier to help you defend your boundaries than my own: /
For your own sake though.... you must put your needs at the top of your list. This is swell practice, even if it's uncomfortable and makes you a bit sick to do it. You can handle these guys.
Steady and calm Lupita. Write and write about it till you understand exactly how you feel and can discuss without being sidetracked by anything these guys are going to say, to throw you off.
If they act like manipulative children.... you act like a parent. (If they whine and try to make you feel guilty to get their way.... let them know that the point isn't negoiable, they will follow the rules and thats that)
If they act like a parent.... then you act like a manipulative child. (If they speak to you with authority then you can tell them how much you enjoy having them around and how much you look forward to hearing their wisdom but you simply must tear yourself away and do this darned thing over here that needs doing, instead of taking them to the mall :shock:)
It would be nice if you could just speak like 2 adults but, that's not likely to happen with your SIL.
Bob and weave my dear, keep working on taking care of your needs and don't let them know they've upset you so much.
DO something that changes your circumstances. What the heck? It can't get any ickier than they're making it; )
Sit down and write out a plan then execute it, my dear. I think you'll surprise yourself with the strength you find.
-
For your own sake though.... you must put your needs at the top of your list. This is swell practice, even if it's uncomfortable and makes you a bit sick to do it
THis ( above) is what is happening to me. YUCH Love Ami
-
hi lupita,
i'm new here, so i don't wish to be offering advice right away or anything.....but your post really strikes a chord with me.
have you had counseling in how to set boundaries and say "no"? it is really difficult to get started doing, but if you do start saying "no" and drawing the line, it can be such an empowering feeling...and you'll start feeling good about life, yourself, and your relationships again.
-
:D Bravoooooooo, Bean!
Take heart, Lupita.
((((()))))
Hops
-
Thank you friends. Thank you for all your advises and ideas. I decided not to ask for my bed back. I need the living roo, to get up early and du my things, coffee and news.
Also, starting tomorrow I am not going to sacrifice my time for them, I am going to take them to the mall and they are going to stay there and I will pick them up at night and that way my day is mine.
My sister in law and her daughter do not bother me as much as my brother. I wrote him an e mail explaining my situation. He wrote me back seyin that his wife and daughter have all his support. And that they did a huge sacrifice to put the money together to come here. He does not know how muhc money she is spending, he does acre about me. My mother never did. Mo brother either.
I hate my family, but it is the only family I have. They make me feel so lonely.
Now, it is going to be easy. besides they are trying, both of them took the belly dancing class just to pleace me. They are couch potatos, so, that was a huge sacrifice. So, I was happy when the child noticed that it would be nice to so some exercise. My sister in low is constantly complaining about my brother. I wrote back my borther. I said, if they have all your support, why are they constantly complaining about you? I suspect that my brother does to them the same that he does to me. No validation. NO moral support. I dont know if he really gives them support. He was always blind to the abuse that my mother did to me. He always said that my mother loved him more because he was a better son. He never said that he was taught to ride a bicycle with somebody hired just to help him learn. I was put in the bicycle and pushed, and let fall. Thousnad times.
-
Hey Lupita: Glad you feel OK about sleeping in the LR. That would have chapped my you know what to have them ignore me like that. Is the sofa better than the floor?
Good plan to offer ride to mall then leave them on their own. They can nap in the ladies lounge and watch tv in electronics.
I think I would just back off from the brother thing..... with his wife and daughter. They probably have bigger problems than you know and you certainly don't want to be in the middle of that.
You have Lupita and son to worry about. Don't waste your energy on them. Your brother can't admit that your mother was cruel to you.... he wants to believe he's special. ::shrug:: He lives in denial with most of the world.
I don't blame him for not wanting to admit that maybe his mother isn't capable of loving anyone and that she was kind to him just to jerk you around.
Ouch, Lupita.
Maybe he lives in fear that he'll lose your mother's love if he doesn't act a certain way towards you or her or..... it's really sad: ( How much damage N's do to their families. He was a victim too...... just not the scapegoat victim you were. He's paying a heavy price, it just may not be apparent now.
I don't like it that he can't support you but..... you won't change him and you can find people who do understand and you don't have to convince anyone. Like here.... but in real life.
Glad you feel better. You certainly sound like you're doing better. Remember to eat right and don't let them keep you from the things you love to do.
-
Well, I still think they oughtta go home, Lupita... :|... but Bean makes good sense. Thank you Miss Bean... I have trouble sayin, "not my job", too. Need to do that more.
And you make good sense, too, Lupita.
I'd rather sleep in the living room with access to coffee and news than have to tiptoe around them every morning.
And Lighter makes good sense... well, mostly... (napping in the ladies' lounge? lol)
Y'all are cool. I'm all for unwasted energy! Let brother's family sort through their own baggage.
Keep smiling, dear Lupita :)
Love,
Hope
-
It is that hunger for love and aproval wnat screwed me up this time. I fell in the trap again. It was one step back. I am disgusted right now, but I am not mad at them. I am mad at me. I do not recognize the boundaries until I am hurt. Then I have to wait till next time to fix it. I mean, I fix it. This visit is not going to be repeated. They want, I know, the child to spend six months here to leanr English, that is not going to happen. If they want that, they have to pay dormitories in the school wherever they put her and I will gladly help her if she gets sick or has a problem. The worst is that they are not bad people, it is my brother the bad people. That hurts. My sister in low has become an N. But she was not that before. 20 years ago when they married she was a nice person. My borther is an N. The worst is that my brother is not a bad person. Just a blind person. I hate him and love him at the same time. As much as I love him I have to stay away from him. He constantly hurts me. His son, my nephew is invalid, cerebral palsy, very intelligent young 18 YO, but cant walk. They feel that I owe them because their child is handycap.
I feel very mad right now. I hate mt brother, and I love my brother, and I cant do anything for him, other than sleep on the floor, I prefer the floor dear friend, thank you for asking. My back hurts and floor is excellent for my back.
I have to stay away from my brother.
-
I feel so lonely and so numbed.
So lonely!!!!!!
-
Dear Lupita,
You've reminded me of a psalm, Psalm 27...
Here is verse 10: Even if my father and mother (and brother and sister and all my family) abandon me, the Lord will hold me close.
Much love to you, Lupita
Hope
-
I feel so lonely and so numbed.
So lonely!!!!!!
Ther's always someone home here, Lupita.
::pouring Lupita hot cup of whatever she wants to drink::
You can come here and tell us about the loniless, the hurt, the confusion and the pain.
I watch you grow stronger and become more centered... such a hard journey.
A very lonely journey.... I know,
but I wish I'd had this board the first couple time I had to travel it.
You're not all alone..... and this pain is a symptom....
of healinng.
Darnit.
Why does it have to be so uncomfortable?
because we'd stay stuck where we are if it wasn't.
That's why.
Soon, Lupita will be giving advice about this on the board and growing through the next stage of learning.
Sharing her lessons with those who come after.
I want to say 'chin up' but you may need to sob a bit in the shower first. It's ok to be sad, imperative that you feel that too.
Listen to the pain and try to be still with it.
There's a message and once you learn it..... you figure how to counter it and put coping mechanisms in place.
Self care.... self care.... self care.
Pretend until you believe you're worth all that time and trouble.
You are, you know?
When do you go to that dance class again?
What are you going to wear?
Scruff your face and body and condition your hair. Pluck those stray eyebrows.
Stretch and pay attention to the next meal you prepare yourself.
Make it a little special and let me know what book we're going to read for our new club; )
-
I am where CB is,in my life. I am standing up for "my space" in the world. I don't want to hurt 'your" space,but I don't want you to violate mine. This is my current lesson. It HURTS. I am sick,right now. It is really hard to be learning a lesson that I should have learned in my teens or twenties. My two sons are learning this lesson,now.. We are learning it together. We talk about how you have to have your own dignity and integrity. There are times when you HAVE to die on that hill.
I had two incidents yesterday where I trusted myself when other people were telling me that my perception was wrong. i went down deep inside and asked myself about how I felt. I felt that I was seeing things right.In the final decision I had to honor myself.Before, I did not do this. This is the single reason that I was sick--- mentally and physically.
It is so, so so hard to heal from it. CB is right-- it is yucky to heal from this ,but you have to. Your life will mean nothing if you don't.
My next person is my H. I am sick inside trying to figure out HOW i can have my dignity with him or IF I can.I know that many people think that I cannot have my dignity and still live with him. You may be right. I just need to walk through the steps to see it. Love Ami
-
I am where CB is,in my life. I am standing up for "my space" in the world. I don't want to hurt 'your" space,but I don't want you to violate mine. This is my current lesson. It HURTS. I am sick,right now. It is really hard to be learning a lesson that I should have learned in my teens or twenties. My two sons are learning this lesson,now.. We are learning it together. We talk about how you have to have your own dignity and integrity. There are times when you HAVE to die on that hill.
I had two incidents yesterday where I trusted myself when other people were telling me that my perception was wrong. i went down deep inside and asked myself about how I felt. I felt that I was seeing things right.In the final decision I had to honor myself.Before, I did not do this. This is the single reason that I was sick--- mentally and physically.
It is so, so so hard to heal from it. CB is right-- it is yucky to heal from this ,but you have to. Your life will mean nothing if you don't.
My next person is my H. I am sick inside trying to figure out HOW i can have my dignity with him or IF I can.I know that many people think that I cannot have my dignity and still live with him. You may be right. I just need to walk through the steps to see it. Love Ami
I can't imagine you teaching these lessons to your sons..... considering you're cowering in the face of violent outbursts from you NH, who's been allowed to frighten all 3 of you for nearly 20 years.
You can't stand up to him because he'll hurt your or someone else.
How the heck are you teaching them these lessons?
-
Lighter,
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Ami
-
My son came to the recue. My son is going to take them out. They will pick me up later to go dancing together. They will have to sit and watch while I have my salsa class.
My borther is the bad one. That makes me feel very very sad. Very sick. I know I have to stay away from him. Survive this visit is going to be less difficult. They are not bad people. My brother is the zomby. Vaknim somby. Totally blind and sour bc of the child discapacity. Deaf. I know that I have to stay away from him. That hurts. I do not have a family. Twilight zone family. My family does not exist.
I imagine that you guys all, also, have families that do not exist. I feel I am among enemies.
My sister in low just got up and gave me a hug. It seems like she has a heart. I wish I did not have to feel this sympathy for the in low relative. I hate to think that my brother is the rotten apple.
I feel very disoriented. So confused!!!!
-
Small edit in:
Dear Lupita,
You've reminded me of a psalm, Psalm 27...
Here is verse 10: Even if my father and mother (and brother and sister and all my family) abandon me, the Board/Lord will hold me close.
Much love to you, Lupita
Hope
-
What makes me mad is that I did not enforced my boundaries. I feel bad to do it. Now I understand many things. But my sister in low is selfish and unconsiderate, but not a bad person. My brother enforces his boundaries with me. He really does. I do not.
That is why I am mad today. My brother is selfish.
-
Lighter,
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Ami
Shouldn't eating an elephant involve cutting and chewing? :shock:
-
What makes me mad is that I did not enforced my boundaries.
I think it makes everyone mad when they realize the let themselves down.
That's worse than someone else letting us down.
No sense beating yourself up about it.
This is a big opportunity to learn and begin doing better.
Shrug it off..... figure out what boundaries you're going to enforce and mindfully go about asserting yourself like an adult who believes she has a right to have her needs met.
You never really showed them this side of you before so..... it'll take a bit of adjustment on their part too.
You're brother protects his boundaries?
Fine.
That should make it even easier to enforce yours.
No guilt.
Blech... guilt sucks, lol.
::picturing Lupita whirling the salsa accross the floor in a fabulouse red dress and matching red cha cha heels!::
Have fun!
-
[q
Shouldn't eating an elephant involve cutting and chewing? :
More to come-- My Friend
-
Something stroke me right now. How come my brother knew about boundaries????????? We come from the same family. My sister has a distroyed marriage, and she is the golden child, I have a failed marriage too. My brother has been married for more than 20 years. He has constantly enforced his boundaires. How he knew something that I had no idea it existed???????????
How????????? Tell me how??????????
My sister is an extremity of my mother, like a foot or a big toe.
But my brother knew a secret inexistent for me. He never gave me credit for nothing. He ganged up with my mother against me.
Why God did this to me? Why my cousin died? Why my borther's son is invalid? Why do I have to be so lonely!!!!!!
-
Something stroke me right now. How come my brother knew about boundaries????????? We come from the same family. My sister has a distroyed marriage, and she is the golden child, I have a failed marriage too. My brother has been married for more than 20 years. He has constantly enforced his boundaires. How he knew something that I had no idea it existed???????????
How????????? Tell me how??????????
My sister is an extremity of my mother, like a foot or a big toe.
But my brother knew a secret inexistent for me. He never gave me credit for nothing. He ganged up with my mother against me.
Why God did this to me? Why my cousin died? Why my borther's son is invalid? Why do I have to be so lonely!!!!!!
Dear Lupita,
If your brother is NPD, then it is not boundaries he is using - it is control and dominance. There is a big difference, you know?
N's manipulate by intimidation, by bribery, by many methods - whatever works best on the person they're trying to control.
Healthy boundaries do not control others.
When I look at my lown ife and the things that have happened, I know that God did not to these things to me, Lupita.
People do these things. Sometimes I do these things myself when I make bad choices, but I always know it's not God doing it.
And when I have gotten so lonely, those are the times God has been there, if I will turn my eyes to Him.
We each choose where to look.
Love,
Hope
-
My brother is different because he was treated differently.
-
Lupita:
It sounds like your boundaries were crushed by your mother and brother. They crushed yours in the name of enforcing theirs?
That's not boundarie enforcement..... that's bullying masquerading as boundary enforcement.
Your SIL used to be nice and now she's exhibiting N traits? That's bc she's been lving with an N all these years.
He didn't get off light.
He didn't get through his childhood unscathed. Maybe he's just exhibiting N traits too?
That doesn't mean he's appropriately enforcing boundaries, IMO.
He's just selfish and feels entitled and makes sure everyone gives him what he wants... he doesn't DO much of anything he doesn't want to.
You're expected to sacrafice, that's not right either.
Work on your own balance and don't try to figure out your brother now, if you can help it.
You're plenty busy with you right now: )
-
Dear Lupita,
My brother is very, very N'ish.
He was treated differently, also - partly because he is the first child, the oldest, and partly because he IS different in personality, and partly because he is male. Of all those factors, I feel that his being male was the biggest difference. Some of this may be cultural, Lupita. My father never believed that women should wear pants, cut their hair, or have any leadership role in the church... those are just a few things, but they all combine to make for some major differences.
My brother's "power" does not come from an inner sense of self, or peace, or anything good. It comes from being an overgrown selfish brat who thinks nothing of having other people wait on him hand and foot, He always put his own wants first.... not needs, but wants. His preferences. Those are not boundaries. He just plain does whatever he wants to do.
Love,
Hope
P.S. Lighter is right. Trying to figure him out will only keep you from the real work to be done.
-
(((((((((((((((((Lupita))))))))))))))))
I can't imagine anything more triggering than family underfoot for an extended time.
Hops