Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Bella_French on July 31, 2007, 10:00:09 PM
-
I've noticed that a lot of us have N mothers (hugs to all of you!)
I know this sounds so bad, but lately I am feeling more and more that I don't want to communicate with my mother on a regular basis. I could handle a chat on the phone maybe once every three to six months, to share news and a superficial chit-chat. But any more than that I can't handle, for a lot of reasons I'm sure those of you with N mothers understand too well. I just don't want the role she keeps forcing apon me as her daughter, and i don't want to deal with a major confrontation about it either. The only possible result of a confrontation with her would be estrangment (which i don't want), and yet if I don't do that, she will just keep putting me in a role I don't want.
My mother kind of senses these things, and she called last week to tell me (threaten me?) that she will move to my town to live. I just raved on about the high price of real estate, and the benefits of living in the town where my brothers live. But I'm a little worried. If she really does move here, I will feel the same way. I don't want much to do with her, and so I'm not going to have much to do with her.
I guess my question is: Do you think it is reasonable to have contact with your mother once every 3- 6 months? She has 6 children and a partner, so I don't really feel that I am the only one she needs to depend on. How much contact do you have with your mother?
-
Dear Bella,
Your question reminds me of an incident with a friend . Her mother moved across the street . I had not seen her for 2 months. I went to visit. I saw an old lady sitting on the porch. I wondered who it was.She was a beautiful, young ( forties) blonde. It was HER.. She had turned grey and wrinkled almost overnight. I said to my father,"After that, I will never let my mother move down ."
Bella, maybe this is a trite story ,but your question reminded me of it Love Ami
-
Oh Ami, I believe that! I feel so sorry for your friend.
With six siblings, I sometimes feel that my mother takes turns `grooming' us for the possibility of caring for her during her old age. I'm already rehearsing `no' speeches. I say my brothers can have her.
-
I believe it Bean; I think I have harder times-and harder decisons- ahead of me too. I can totally respect your decision to have no contact; I am just so sorry it came to that for you Bean. That must have been heart-breaking.
I think its so hard to relate to an N parent, once you totally see through their ruse. They can't behave reasonably, and my mother lies, lies and lies. She has totally reinvented her past (which includes my past). As she would have it, she was a perfect parent, lol. Each time we speak, I feel like she's trying to recruit me to her skewed perception of reality. It makes me feel crazy, having to put aside what is true and real just to have a non-confrontational conversation with her.
I think I forgive my mother for my childhood, but she has changed so little. With everything I know, I have no desire to let her into my life.
I keep saying to my partner, we're moving to Spain if my mother moves to my town. I wish we could afford it, lol.
-
Bella,
I can't offer you much on this, except to suggest that good preemptive planning between you and your sibs might have merit down the road. What I'm thinking is that since there are six of you, why not divvy up the year, two months each where the one who is on 'duty' would give your mother the kinds of attention that appeals to her. Cards, flowers, calls, visits, and so on. That way one of you will not feel required to give all the attention all the time.
Of course, when her health status chances, you'd need a plan to accommodate that too.
I think you have every right to galvanize yourself from being sucked into what feels like a looming black hole.
tt
-
Ooops Bella,
I didn't read that part where you told your brothers they could have her. :oops:
tt
-
Tear tracks that is an exceptionally nice idea, and it would probably work fine if my siblings were not so caught up in being part of my mother's games, and if my mother's needs were as simple as gifts and attention.
I probably didn't explain it very well; overall I would say that what my mother requires is for her children to perform certain `roles' that she assigned to us individually, which fullfill her emotional needs as a narcissist. If we deviate from those roles, we are punished. My feelings are that the roles she picked out for us come from a place of mental sickness, and that those of my siblings who satisfy my mother the most, are the ones who have paid for it dearly, at the cost of their mental health.
For example, my mother's `favourites' are my two brothers, who are both sociopaths (one criminally so), and my youngest sister, who satisfies my mother through her severe obesity and marrying a succession of sex-addicted men who either have affairs with my mother or flirt with her so much that they may as well have been.
My parents are exceptionally wealthy, so my mother's `weapon of choice' is withholding financial favours from those of us who not `behaving', whilst lavishing the ` well behaved' siblings with over the top sums of money (in the order of tens of thousands of dollars) and gifts such as homes, cars, and general hand-outs. She also uses emotional blackmail, but she has found that money is a lot more effective.
I'm one of the ones who never sees a cent of my parents money. Its because I don't perform the role my mother picked out for me, and its her way of expressing her anger.
The way I stop that from hurtng me is to keep my distance from her and to focus on my own life. I don't want anyting to do with her mental sickness, or being emotionally pushed and pulled based on her skewed expectations adn strange needs.. I'm too sensitive to be punished in sucha way, and it took so long to get over my enormous sense of worthlessness because of her mothering. I guess that althoug i have found some strength, and alittle happiness in life, I am protective of it and do not want to regress.
-
Bella,
I'm so sorry your mother is so awful and manipulative.
You are doing well to keep her at the distance that you do.
I remember my NMum saying to me 'I had you so that you would stay with me forever', and it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.
They PLAN these things.
Get away from her, even if that means NC. Even if she moved next door to you, you don't have to have anything to do with her, and if your other siblings take her blood money, then when she's old THEY can care for her. You've already had far too much taken from you.
Sorry, I just feel so angry about this! It's not fair on you!!
Janet
-
Oh, a 'PS' - I didn't actually answer your question! I've had NC for 13 years, with both my NMum and NSister. I live 300 miles from both of them. They live 2 minutes' drive from each other.
Janet
-
Hi Bella,
Not enough! :lol:
I went NC almost a year ago after many, many attempts to reach her. She lives about 10-15 minutes away, and periodically tries to contact me. I try to avoid reading or opening anything that she sends - but sometimes they slip through. Ironically, every single time - it is a demand or some sort of guilt trip - all she ends up doing is reinforcing the NC decision.
If your M is ok with contact every 3 to 6 monhts, then I say great - I think I could have handled that, but my mother would never have allowed it. She made many unreasonable demands on my time.
Peace
-
Bella,
For the past 6 1/2 years, there's been a 1,000 mile distance between us.
She writes a note each week to enclose with the letter my Dad writes and mails to us. Paper-clipped to her note is $1.00 each for my 2 children still living at home. She began this tradition when we moved away and has continued it steadfastly ever since. When we lived just a few miles from her, she rarely saw her grandchildren. Too much interference with her ways, her routine, her... whatever.
We were just there for a visit a month ago and barely saw her. She showed no interest in her grandchildren, didn't speak to them about much of anything, and made sure she was in bed by 7:30 pm, per her schedule. She gets up in the middle of the night to begin her kitchen routine, doing critical tasks like bagging up 6 bowls of cereal for my dad, lest he get into the cupboard himself and make a mess? I dunno.
I was able to do a couple of minor repairs while there... on her washer and on a cabinet which wouldn't close. The "at your service" me tried to come out strongly, but I appreciated having a couple of tasks to relieve the stress. I got the same reaction as always... more sullen agitation/anger? from her that I was able to see and fix this stuff than appreciation. It is so odd.
Her letters since we've arrived home go on and on about how she misses us.
ohhkayyy.... :?
We have spoken on the phone maybe 10 times in the past 6 1/2 years. She will not call - I think because she knows there's a good possibility she'll get voice mail. We are not phone people. I used to place calls... and then she'd put me on hold, long distance, while she finished up another critical kitchen task. The last time she tried to do that, I said - that's alright, I have to go anyway - and hung up.
I think I've called her once since... this past winter, when an ice storm brought a tree through our roof. She always writes that they watch the weather down where we live, so it occurred to me after the power had been out for several days to call and let her know that we were alright. It seemed like the honorable thing to do... :shock: I barely completed my little story of our adventure when she launched into this big spiel about my (very Nish) brother and his awful struggles to get his car back to the US from Europe (hissing... "he has a Jag-oo-wahr, you know") Yeah, uh huh, okay mother, well anyway, just wanted you to know we are alright.
She wants to hear about the honors my children receive and horror stories about trees through roofs are okay, too, but not nearly so exciting as jag-oo-wahrs :P Whatever... it's all a collection of tidbits for the next time somebody at church asks how we're doing.
I have no interest in handing her grist for that mill or going through the motions just so she can feel like she's done her part and I've done mine. Ugh.. I have work to do on this. I can still feel the resentment. Thanks for the opportunity to blather, Bella.
Love,
Hope
-
Dear Bella,
I want to put a big red flag out. She WANTS to make you mentally ill. The ONLY way that you can interact with her on a consistent basis IS to become mentally ill. She is after your mind. Your mind is precious. Your mental health is precious. You will lose your life if you lose your mental health. .You can easily get a physical disease from losing your mental health.
You know that my M is a therapist. She will use ANY tool in her tool box to make me lose any semblance of good sense that I have . She wants me to be pliable so that I can espouse her distorted reality.
I DID this from 14 on. I almost died from taking in her poisoned reality.
It is pitiful that we have mother's like this. It is horrible. It is not fair. I want a loving, sweet mother. I have a monster in a psychological thriller. She has sucked out my brain and my guts. She has her foot on me-- scared to death that I will get strong. She will do whatever it takes to destroy me. Her twisted reality is at stake. My destruction is NOTHING compared to her holding on to her twisted reality. I am a blip on the radar screen.
I agree with Janet. NC is the way to heal. If not, they keep you off center b/c they are masters at getting you to question yourself. We are insecure anyway b/c of having them as mothers. They use any good qualities on our part to destroy us with.
This is my experience, Bella. You have been so kind to me. I want only the best for you
Love Ami
-
Hi Bella,
I like CB's idea. You said you don't want to completely break ties, so why not just try what CB says and see when it all feels right. I understand the lonliness of wanting a real mother but chances for that with the scenario you describe seem pretty dismal. So sorry...
tt
-
Dear Shunned,
You are my soul sister. One of the worst things in life is to know that I am living from the message that my N mother gave me. It is an awful abyss.
Also, it is so awful that even when we have NC, they are still in our head.How are you doing on the smoking? Maybe, the smoking could be part of the nurturing issue that we ,who have N mothers ,struggle with . It feels wrong to nurture yourself. It seems right to hurt yourself(smoke).Just a thought.It may not apply at all. Love Ami
-
Dear all,
I almost feel like crying, hearing about other N mothers and what led you to having no contact with them. Each one of your posts deserves a long reply; for now i just wanted to let you know that I read them all and I am so grateful that you wrote. I feel a sense of validation after reading your suggestions. Thankyou:)
-
Dear Bella,
When I found out that other people had N mothers, it was the most profound sense of relief. I know how you feel Love Ami
-
Dear Bella,
I know it helps to know....it would have been better if we hadn't had to have 'mothers' like them, though, wouldn't it? :(
Janet
-
My mother and I write e mail to each other every single day. She writes me at least twicw a day. She says in all her e mails what a bad daughter I am, how much I misstreat her, and how much she suffers, so, I get disgusted every single day. I am practicing to detach, so I try to concentrate in detachment before I read her e mials. Then I answer, hi mom, god bless you and spread all his blessings upon you. Then I tell her what I ate, what I did during the day and then I say god bless you again. I feel obligated to do it. For me, that is almost NC. I do not suffer for her anymore. The only thing I suffer is the upset taht she makes me feel, but I try to ignore her as much as I can. My brother is the same.
-
Lupita honey,
That is not NC.
NC is blocking her emails and having an entire day where you can think GOOD things about yourself without having to wade through her abuse.
No wonder you have days where you feel so down that you can't see up. No wonder it feels like everyone who snubs you is one more in a long line. If you have to read two bulletins from your mom every day on what a bad person you are, it's like having an IV of poison directly into your blood stream.
Don't say you can't block her, Lupita. You can. If you don't--start by saying that you don't want to. Then you can work on why you don't want to: what you need from those emails that keep you from giving them up.
Will you give them up, Lupita? Will you give yourself a couple of weeks of peace and quiet before you start back to school?
Love you, Lupita,
CB
-
Dear Lupita,
You are not obligated to take your mother's hateful messages into yourself through your eyes.
Please think - if she came to your door with a box of stolen stuff, would you be obligated to receive it and store it in your closet?
Would locking the closet keep her from bringing that box into your home? If she gets in through the door, there's her stuff... right there for you to trip over constantly.
Sometimes locking the closet isn't enough... we need to let the main door stay unopened. In that same way, you can guard your heart... it's the wellspring of your life, you know.
Love,
Hope
-
Dear Lupita,
I agree with the other ladies; that is way too much contact! You don't deserve to read those words (negative reinforcment is so damaging, hon) , and you don't have to answer to her (like explaining to her what you eat and do each day!).
But I know. Its hard to detach, once you are enmeshed with your mother. My little sister is in your position, and I ache for her. I sometimes think my mother lives to criticise her, flirt with her husband, and invade her life in every way. My sister is so beautiful and sweet natured; of all my siblings she was the one true, marvelous beauty amongst us-inside and out.
After all these years of never being away from mum, she seems to deal with it all through obesity. I don't know why; maybe its kind of like Shunned explained in her quitting smoking thread- maybe being the opposite of what Mum regards of beautiful is her sole means of holding onto her individuality?. Everything else about her life is controlled by our mother (as well my mother's money) . I wish I could wrap her up in a blanket of my love and take her away from it, but I know she has to find her own way. I love her so much.
One day my little sister will stop tolerating it; I can feel that there is is a strength to her in recent years. I can tell things are getting rockier, and that is why our mother is putting out the feelers for someone else to latch onto....partly as punishment for my sister, and partly because she thinks someone new to `mesh' with might be a better deal for her.
I haven't spoken to mother since our last discussion about her moving to my town. I hope if I ignore her long enough, she'll give up on me as her prospective new victim.
-
Bella,
I'm sorry that you have a mother like this.
I've only just recently broken with my mother, and I"m working on reducing the amount of time my son and I are exposed to her. Right now, I talk to her only when she calls me. I don't call her. She calls more often when my son has been at camp, and then I reduce the amount of time I actually see her to once every other week. I know it doesn't sound like much, but I was living with her, so this is a big improvement.
I like CB's idea also. Eventually I'd like to put a lot of distance between me and my parents so they have no excuse to visit, and I don't feel so obligated to visit.
T
-
Hugs to you Tayana; I am glad that seems like an improvement to you (and it must feel so much better after living with her!).
I like CB's idea too, and I think this is the approach I will attempt. I am afraid of my mother doing something extreme if I just cut her off completely (like moving in next door!). I think its one of the most extreme forms of punishment a mother could suffer, and the thought of doing that to someone makes me feel so uncomfortable. I could only do it if nothing else worked.
Its weird; I think I would miss her too. Shes still my mother, you know? I like our conversations when they are kept light and related to family news. I just don't want a toxic form of enmeshment with her (as is her instinct), and I don't know how to communicate that to her in any other way than gently easing away from her.
Ami, I've a got a feeling that I will have to practice the `no contact rule' with her some time down the track. I'm not looking forward to that conversation at all! But if I have to, I will do it. Thankyou for your kind words and for your care, sweet one:) I love your posts
-
Dear Bella,
I was kind of strong (lol) on that last post about no contact.
Bella, many people tell me to leave my H yesterday,but I am not prepared to ,yet. Everyone has their own timing in important things like this.
We can just take all the voices and then try to go in to our core and see what that "voice "says.
You sound like you are healing in a deeper way, lately. i am really glad for that. Thanks for your caring and warmth.. It means so very much Love Ami
-
Bella....
I am sad thinking about your sister, and you too...because you too have a very lovely nature, and a precious life...so easy to waste, fill up, clog and clutter with worries about placating the Nmother.
Hmm. I am definitely preaching to myself here...
But I think it would almost be worth it to make at least one direct statement: I think it would be disappointing for you to live here, because ... Oh geez, I don't know. Can you think of reasons?
Errggh. I hate the thought of her invading your turf.
Hops
-
Hugs to you Hops..that was such a lovely thing to hear, and so lovely of you to say...Thankyou:)
I know; it would be so nice to be able to just say what you want from someone and have them hear that, and respect it, wouldn't it? . But I never feel comfortable telling N's what I really want or really think, or anything that is dear to my heart. They are not respectful people, and they will only use that sort of information as a weapon. Like if Mum knew exactly how uncomfortable I am about her moving to my town, I think it would be registered as `important' information, to be used at a later date to harm me. It wouldn't register as something important to me, that if respected would improve our relationship. Thats the difference with N's.
X Bella
-
But I never feel comfortable telling N's what I really want or really think, or anything that is dear to my heart. They are not respectful people, and they will only use that sort of information as a weapon. Like if Mum knew exactly how uncomfortable I am about her moving to my town, I think it would be registered as `important' information, to be used at a later date to harm me. It wouldn't register as something important to me, that if respected would improve our relationship. Thats the difference with N's.
This really reasonated with me - it is an awful way to live as a child, isn't it? I had to be so careful of what I said and how I said it.
I am sorry you had this as well.
Peace
-
I am in the process of implementing NC with my Nmother. I use the word process because I believe the best way to get your head out of the lion's mouth is to back out very slowly. My mother has done so much emotional/financial/psychological sabotage to me and mine, it's starting to become humerous. I used to be ambivalent feeling that she, too was the victim of an Nmom and is only a product of a horrible environment. I have a lot of love in my heart and despite the mountain of pain she brought to my life, I still had pity and concern for her well-being. I still have all those things for her, but I have to make a decision of NC for me. She like others have said, groomed me to be her emotional compass and to relied on my love to keep me attached to her forever. But when I think of the fact that in her ideal world, she could place me on a shelf or in her pocket available to her whenever she needs inspiration or encouragement, or a proverbial punching bag, I become livid. She has reduced me to a faithful servant and not the accomplished person I've become. Never mind that I have a husband and a daughter who need and love me. She barely asks about her grand-daughter and recently implied that I didn't need to bring the whole family on my next visit to her as she seems like she can't stand the sight or smell of my husband, a truly wonderful and kind man.
Bella, I understand the cross-roads at which you now stand. If you must maintain some contact with your mother, you should practice some N-hygiene and put up what I now call the "shield." I picked this up in a reading that I've now forgotten, I believe it's "Children of the Self-Absorbed." There is a description there of an imaginary emotionally protective device that you surround yourself with when going into the presence of your neighborhood N. I have to remind myself to use this tool because often I'm already in a happy mood when Nmom catches me off-guard with her nosy, probing, life-sucking weekly calls. When I forget to throw up the "shield" of flat affect and no emotion, I pay dearly for it. Good moods, chipper spirits, not allowed. I've learned to adapt my own personality into one that cow-tows and gives a crap when it comes to her in order to keep her vindictive, mean-ness from sending a N-bullet my way. Frankly, I'm exhausted with her. I don't think it's fair that I have to stifle who I am with her. No contact, sweet no contact, here I come. Thanks for the posting, Bella.
Best
Tiffany
-
My mother kind of senses these things, and she called last week to tell me (threaten me?) that she will move to my town to live. I just raved on about the high price of real estate, and the benefits of living in the town where my brothers live. But I'm a little worried. If she really does move here, I will feel the same way. I don't want much to do with her, and so I'm not going to have much to do with her.
I guess my question is: Do you think it is reasonable to have contact with your mother once every 3- 6 months? She has 6 children and a partner, so I don't really feel that I am the only one she needs to depend on. How much contact do you have with your mother?
I think they sense when a member of the network wants out of the game, because it threatens their whole program, even if there are 7 others to fall back on. If one figures it out, what if the others wake up?
Seems to me you have the right to choose the level of contact that works for you. In my case, I am at 1 "stayover" visit with my parents a year and a telephone monversation (I call it a monversation because it consists of me listening to them babble about themselves) about once every 6 weeks or so. They don't like this level of contact and are always pushing for MORE. But I have come to realize I just don't get anything out of it. I got tired of playing the parentified role. I'd kind of like to reduce the stayover visits to an annual lunch at the airport :D
And its good to remember they have other sources. N-ish people are good at overdramatizing any little slight. They learn to survive with less contact.