Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on August 04, 2007, 09:16:08 AM
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My mom wrote me an e mail in which she tells me that I am interchanging chewing gum with her worst enemy. (her daughter in low, my sister in low).
I wrote her back telling her that I am very sorry that she thinks that way. That my son is the pianist in the church where I was kicked out in a very cruel way for no reason, by a narcissistic pastor, and I am not mad at my son. Also, that I am the only connexion she has with this family as a whole. So she should be more positive about the small relationship that I have with my sister in low. My sister in low told me that she wanted to visit me before, but my mother told her that she should not, because that would be damaging to me. I do not know if she is just trying to cause problems between my mother and me. I do not know who to believe anymore.
My sister was trying to get a job at my brother's office and he said no because his wife did not want to. I asked him for a job in his office in the past, and he said that I had to talk to his wife, if she accepted, it wold be OK. I never asked her. I talked to her last night about the truth on that, (I do not need a job there, I prefer to work here in this wonderful country) and she said that my brother never let her interfere with his decisions in his office. My brother is a physician. I do not who to believe. It seems like my family is all lies and deceive.
My son told me he is having a wonderful time with his cousin and his aunt and he does not want to know about this B@@@T.
I know I have to detach from all this obscure matter that my poor mother has created. Just do not know how to stop thinking about her. Maybe hypnosis.
Thank you for your comments, thank you for your advises.
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This visit ends next Wednesday. I enjoy my niece company. Last night we went to my son's piano trio's concert and they really liked it. Usually the other kids have relatives, cousins, uncles, several memeber of the falily, there making noise for them after the performance, and I am the only one there for my son, always alone. Last night we were three people aplauding my son.
Why not enjoy this moments of the small time of companionship I rarely have. This is the first time these people visit me in ten years.
My brother is totally blind to my suffering.
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Hi Lupita
I thought the way you responded to your M was perfect: “I am sorry you feel that way.”
(The rest of your family aside) Do you like your SIL? If you do, then ignore your M. If you don’t, then still ignore your M, and make a decision based on what is right for you not anyone else. Does this make any sense?
I don’t know if this would help, but sometimes when I see a behavior or hear something that I am not quite sure how to take, I make a note of it in my head, no emotion attached – just a so and so said this about this. Overtime, the list in my head gets filled in and a pattern will emerge. Sometimes, it turns out that the odd comment was just someone having a bad day, or someone seeing something a little different (but not in a bad way) than I do. Other times, an uglier pattern emerges, and then I can decide whether or not I want to stay in a relationship with that person (all the while fully realizing what they are capable of) or deciding to walk away.
Don’t know if this helps, but I have found that watching and listening to patterns of behavior over time helps me to understand where the other is coming from, and whether or not it is healthy for me to be near that person.
Peace
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Dear Finding Peace, your advise sounds very logical. Very reasonable.
I still feel that I have to detach from my family. They are a mess. Just do not know how to detach. How to not care. It seems that I am afraid to lose something I do not really have. So, I do not need them. They do not even help me. My brother is totally indifferent o my suffering. Selfish. So, for the little smile he gives me once in a while, (variable response. the most addictive one) he constantly has me on the edge, for me just waiting for another smile to come. That has to end. I do not need anybody. Just my slef.
I have to be indifferent. I need anesthesia.
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Dear Lupita,
You answered your own question, I think. You want connections. To me, I think that family is different than friends. Maybe, I am wrong in this. I think that you can be more yourself with family
I think that you don't want to face that a 'bad" family is worse than no family.That is a direct way of saying it,but that is what I hear in your posts.
The big reason that I got so sick was b/c I believed this way. too. Well, an NPD mother IS worse than no mother. Now, I am facing the same thing with my H.
Anyway, the theme that I see in your posts is that you are taking poisoned scraps of food b/c you are willing to settle for it rather than nothing My NPD Mother is a poisoned scrap of food. You have your son-- that is very positive. Maybe, you might have your SIL. I think that you need to face that you do not have your M or B.That is how I see it.
You might find that the few good family that you have are more satisfying when you let go of the 'fake" family. Hope that I was not too "blunt". This is the underlying theme that I saw.
When I gave up the poison, I treasured the beauty more. I have a great relationship with my older son and Father .God sent me a wonderful friend.Maria. I can be gut level honest with her. That is as good as it gets in a friendship. So, I am treasuring what I have. Maybe, I will have a restoration with my H and then younger son. Time will tell,but I am not going to LIE that poison is NOT poison Love Ami
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I am sorry Lupita – too much logic eh?
I tend to do that because if I allow too much emotion in on the big decisions, I can’t think straight.
I believe you are right, you need to detach, although, I am not sure that it is possible to detach by trying to cut-off that you care.
The fact that you care is what sets you apart (in a good way) from those in your family who use you. They clearly don’t care. These Ns are really smart – they use our caring and compassion against us, they use it coldly, without a care, to manipulate us into doing what they want (and they don't give a second thought to how much we are hurt by this because they lack that caring and compassion).
That caring and compassionate soul is what enabled you to raise that tremendous son, and is a precious gift.
I think that it is ok to care for them, but more importantly it is ok to care for yourself first.
Doesn't that sound odd?
I still struggle with this because I was trained to put everyone's needs before mine.
I often ask myself - do I expect my children to care for me more than they care for themselves - invariably, the answer is no. In a normal relationship the caring is give and take. In an N relationship the caring is take, take, take - and when this happens, I think it is essential to take that caring compassionate soul and direct it toward yourself rather than feed it to the Ns (as they will only gobble it up and demand more).
I think this is one of the first steps to detaching.
I know it easy to say, not so easy to do - it is against everything we are trained to do - eh?.
One step at a time - and many hugs (I know how hard this is).
Peace
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(((Lupita)))
It's sort of like a magic trick, isn't it?
Staying out of the orbit of negative mean people who aren't making sense to you.
Remember when you had that great night of dancing....?
You chose to ignore the arrogant guy's weird behavior..... and went on having a wonderful evening......?
And, of course, once you were busy and happy without him...... he wanted your attention back again.....?
Same thing, sort'a, with your family.
That's a real good real life illustration of what you're missing out on when you spend time agonizing over negative (read that as irrational)
behavior, other's try to perpetrate on you.
It doesn't make sense, Lupita.
Don't beat your head against the wall trying to figure it out.
You can't..... and not bc you're not smart enough.
::shrugging::.
It just doesn't make sense.
Simple as that.
Go back to enjoying your life.... you're free to do that, you know?
Maybe you didn't you, lol?
::clearing throat::
I hereby decree that Lupita is free to ignore the negative people around her and concentrate on her joy!
Figuring out how to limit damage and negativity is your new hobby.
NO0000ooooooooo!
Figuring out how to maximize joy and positive connections in your life.....
is your new hobby: )
Don't let other's steal your joy, Lupita.
It's your job to defend it.
Discover and live and embrace life: ) It's ok.... it's ok.... ::nodding::
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Dear Lighter,
Figuring out how to maximize joy and positive connections in your life.....
is your new hobby
I claim that declaration... for myself!
Thank you :)
((((((((((Lupita)))))))))) I hope that you will claim it, too!
Love to you both,
Hope
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Ami, you are right. I am settling for the crumbs under the table. Thinking that with out them I am going to starve.
I will not starve. I am getting conatgeioused of the negativity of my family. Too much family this summer. My mother tells so many lies, I do not know if they are lies or to her are honest twisted truths.
I have no idea how much my grad mother made her suffer. Probably a lot. That is why I do not want to abandone her. But she is so much poison to me, that she is not leaving me with any option. I used to answer her e mails one by one statement b statement trying to reason. She always answered me back, "you never answer my questions, talking with you is like talking to the wall", never good enough.
Now she things that I am getting along with her worst enemy. I wish I could do what my son does.
When I start my sermon, drive slowly, do not talk on the cell while driving, do not put your music so loud that you cannot hear firefighters or ambulance, etc, or the train, etc. Then he says, I love you mom, and with out telling me that I am wrong, he just leaves with a smile on his face.
I am going to try that. Today I was affected for the "interchanging chewing gum with the worst enemy" when I exactly promised that I was going to pray before opening her e mails.
I promise you, tonight I am going to open her e mail and I am not going to feel anything. I will not feel anything. I will not feel anything.
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Figuring out how to limit damage and negativity is your new hobby.
NO0000ooooooooo!
Figuring out how to maximize joy and positive connections in your life.....
Finding pece, lighter and CH are correct.
Wish it was easy. :(
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Figuring out how to limit damage and negativity is your new hobby.
NO0000ooooooooo!
Figuring out how to maximize joy and positive connections in your life.....
Finding pece, lighter and CH are correct.
Wish it was easy. :(
It's not easy.... I know.
It's tough and hard and hurts and stings and nags and keeps dragging us back until it doesn't anymore.
The point is...... it will stop tugging so hard and we can be free if we strive long enough.... hard enough.
The struggle makes us stronger, Lupita.
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I feel the same way I felt when my mother was here. I start losing energy, dont want to study for my exam, dont feel like going to the gym. I missed my salsa lesson last Sunday and I will miss it again this tomorrow Sunday, to go to the beach with them. I start feeling depressed and I am gaining weight. Why is this so draining? Why are they bothering me? Why am I getting tired of them?
I do not know what I would do if I did not have this board to express my feelings.
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I am behaving the same way many women behave with an abusive husband and they do not want to leave him. I have seen that children of N parents have more difficulty detaching from parents. Healthy people can detach more easily.
I see so much, " My N H here and my N H there" etc, and here I am my mother here and my brother there and cant change the subject.
I am obsessed with my family the same way some women are with their N husbands.
It is pathetic.
but with the hope that I will get better.
I hope that nobody comes to visit me for the rest of this year and the next, and the next. It puts me backwards, upside down, dizzy.
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I am behaving the same way many women behave with an abusive husband and they do not want to leave him. I have seen that children of N parents have more difficulty detaching from parents. Healthy people can detach more easily.
I see so much, " My N H here and my N H there" etc, and here I am my mother here and my brother there and cant change the subject.
I am obsessed with my family the same way some women are with their N husbands.
It is pathetic.
but with the hope that I will get better.
I hope that nobody comes to visit me for the rest of this year and the next, and the next. It puts me backwards, upside down, dizzy.
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I feel guilty for not feeling well now. Because they need my joy and entertaining. I have to impact their life. But I am so drained now.
I want to impact their lives in a positive way. It is hard. They are sucking up my soul. I HAVE TO BE STRONGER.
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Dear Lupita,
I wanted to say two things. One is that you ARE getting stronger and better. It is slow b/c you have been conditioned all your life to 'hate" yourself. Two, Your son CAN do that with you b/c you DID NOT BREAK him. Your mother broke you. You are dealing with apples and oranges here. My mother made a comment about ,"Why can't you just tell me 'no", the way that her sister's kids do?" The answer is that she broke and abused me. Her sister loved and respected her kids. That is the end of the story.
I heard that in you and wanted to address it b/c it will become another club that you beat yourself with.
Do you see that you have changed? I see it by how you are on the board. It IS very discouraging how slow change is when you have been brainwashed . You WERE brainwashed by your M to hate yourself and to see yourself as worthless trash.
Your job, as I see it, is to undo the brainwashing. Easier said than done ,of course.
I really wanted to say that I see growth in you.even though you may not . Love Ami
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I feel guilty for not feeling well now. Because they need my joy and entertaining. I have to impact their life. But I am so drained now.
I want to impact their lives in a positive way. It is hard. They are sucking up my soul. I HAVE TO BE STRONGER.
Oh fiddle dee dee, Lupita.
You have ever right to take a break and recharge.
They aren't your sole responsibility while they're there with you.
Make sure you get some down time and don't feel guilty about it.
Can't you drop them at the mall and go nap......
or......
something?
I'd be way over the edge by now with all the demands and rude behavior mixed in with fun, laughter and dancing, lol.
Sounds like an exhausting roller coaster ride to me: /
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How many more days to go, Lup?
I hope there's a break in the clouds and you find more happy moments with your SIL.
You get the Visiting Family Endurance Award, that's for sure.
(Honorable Mention to Izz...)
Keep your chin up, you'll make it through this time,
Hops
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Thank you friends. Thank you so much for taking the time, for reading, for writing, for thinking about my problems.
Thank you. We had a wonderful time today. We went to eat at a restaurant by the beach. Had beer and walked by the marina. Came home, and went to the jacuzzi and swimming pool. Cold, hot, cold hot, hydrotherapy. Bubbles and jets, just relaxing by the moonlight reflexed on the water. Not knowing if it was a dream or a hallucination.
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I'm pretty sure it was reality..... posing as a dream: )
So glad you had a good time, Lupita.
::sigh::
There'll be more of those to come.
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Thank you dear friends, for all your help. The visit is almost over. They leave on Wednesdya. I can say that we have had a very nice time. Beer, jokes, beach, dancing, laughing. Exactly what I like to do. When that happenes, I do not mind to sleep on the floor.
I still have something to discuss with you if you please want to help some more.
I have noticed that my mother, my sister in low, my aunt G, and I do not know who else in my family, like to talk about ugly things to me. Only to me. Only in private. If somebody else appears in the picture suddenly, they change subject and talk very nicely, funny, but when alone again, they go back to complains, negativity, etc. My sister in low complains about my brother, despite the fact that I have told her that he is my brother, that I have problems with him too, and that it hurts. My mother does about me, how bad I am, how I mistreat her, and my aunt goes about my grand mother, how she dares to bring me all the time when she came to visit her, instead of not bringing other children, so she can devote all her time to play with my aunt's children. It seemed like these people spotted me as the victim and they revictimized the victim by abusing me too. There I am, listenign to all their crap.
Last night, my son and my niece went to the movies, but after all day at the beach, my sister in low and I were very tired. So, here we are, alone again, there she starts, your brother here and your brother there. So I said, why is that you always choose me to talk about negative things, and if somebody comes you change to a nice conversation? What do you talk about with your sisters? with your mother? Then she said, I do not talk about this with my mother. She cries too much. So, then I am the lucky one. Why dont you go to the psychiatrists? Are you afraid he will tell you to separate? I have been alone ofr 17 years. I dont put up with those kind of things. Then she said, OK let us change the subject. Then she started talking nicely. I guess, my boundaries are easy with her. She did not put a fight. Is it flip flop? hypocresy? politeness? honest good person? I do not know, and I will never know. I only know that I had fun with her and she probably will not be able to come back in a long time.
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The other thing I needed to talk about with my dear friends of the board is that, ofr the first time in my life, I enforced a boundary with my brother, yesterday. I did.
My sister in low and niece have been shopping all week long. We planned this trip to the beach all week long too. My brother called yesterday and asked us to go shopping for him, and buy two computers for them to take home. That would mean to go for hours to Best Buy or Office Depot, and find prices, call him, then, find out of properties of the computer and call him, and they let him decide what to buy. That would have meant to cancel the trip to the beach. I said, they have been shopping all week, why you did not think about this all this time? We planned for this trip all week. They have been here for ten days. And now, do you think it is fair for us to cancel the trip because you changed your mind? He said thanks and said that the girls were going to suffer because the computers were for them. I turned to my sister in low, do you think this is fair? And she said no. And I have to deal with this all the time. She said.
So, I did not feel sad because I decided to go to the beach, that was what I wanted. I thought I pleased them all week, now I wanted to go to the beach. Not shopping.
I enforced my boundaries and did not feel sad for it.
For the first time in my life, I thought about my self, and put my self before others.
What do you think? Thank you in advance for your comments.
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Dear Lupita,
I think that having them there was a "good" thing. You were forced to face yourself and forced to see your self destructive patterns. It really hurt,but you learned quite a bit.
This is what I am saying about the NC rule. Sometimes, you need to have contact to face the patterns that you would not see UNLESS you had contact.
Anyway,I am happy for you,Lupita. Do you feel stronger inside,now?
I think that it is HORRIBLE that you are the 'garbage pail" for your family. However, you saw it and changed the pattern in that one interaction with your SIL.
That is a BIG step. You are doing GREAT Love Ami
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Ami, Ami, Ami, thank you so much. It is like you are reading my mind and telling me exactly what I want to hear. And yes, I feel better. I feel stronger and I feel happy. Please, keep telling me this wonderful things.
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I remember two weeks ago, when setting boundaries ofr the first time with mi friend J the mother of O. She calls me many times and asks me where are you instead of how are you. So I said “why?”
Then yesterday twice, to my brother in the morning wanting to cancel my trip ten trying to make me feel guilty because those lap tops are for my sister in low and my niece and they are going to suffer for my “selfishness”, but I did what I wanted to do and did not feel bad at all. Then at night with my sister in low, telling her why she talks negative only with me and how she changes topic when somebody else comes. My aunt, my mother and my sister in low dump on my. I don’t know if dump is the correct word, but it is throwing away trash. On the same person all the time.
I dump on my son all the time. He is always helpful. I do not want to use him. I love him with all my heart. He is so good.
Yes, I am progressing. It is sad that it has to be with my family that I start instead of friends. But it is with my family where all started to begin with.
One day I am going to set it strait with my aunt. I will tell her and confront her about her BS. But, knowing her, she is going to cry and tell my cousins etc. That day is not here yet. I am not ready for that yet.
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My sister in low will have a lot of pressure from everybody to say bad things about me. Then My mother will tell me I told you she was the enemy.
If she talks bad about me I am going to feel very sad. I hope she does not. I hope she has the strenght to say nice things, the videos will talk on thier own. We have videos. Pictures.
It is going to be peinful if she says bad things about me.
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Lupta:
When you set your boundaries you seem to feel so much better.
I guess not being shoved over the line and getting so upset before we do it...... is the goal?
Not just with family...... but in all areas of our lives.
Do you think it gets to be ho hum same old same old, at some point?
I sure hope so.
Congrats on setting boundaries then enforcing them.
As for people getting you alone then dumping their anxiety and complaints on you......
I n n a p r o p r i a t e.
When you asked your SIL why she does that and if she does that with other people..... that was perfect, IMO.
(((Lupita))) You're learning, lol!
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I know I should not care. I know it does ot matter. But I am shaking in my socks, thinking, what is my sister in low is going to say about me when she gets back home. It is eating me alive. I know, I know. It should not. I am a good host. I tried my best to do the best for her. It should not matter to me what she is going to say about me. But, given the tendencies of my family, nobody is ever grateful, nobody says thanks, nobody is loyal. I think, she will probably say bad things about me. But I hope, secretely, I hope that she might have liked me as a person and say good things about me. God knows how much I would like for somebody to like me.
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Lupita.... I can identify with the fear that family members, I count on for support, will jump sideways and make trouble where there really shouldn't be any.
I can calm myself down by thinking about the worst case scenario.
What would happen if they went back and made stuff up, exagerated things that happened and pretty much got others upset and barking too?
I come up with a simple, short response to anyone who wants to be upset in my direction then I stop thinking about it.
Then, I think about what it would mean to ignore them while they run around in circles, chasing their tails.
Not my problem and I think they'll stop doing it to you if you hand the responsibility back to them, and refuse to participate.
Withdraw with love.......
A response to craziness might be....
'I'm sorry if SIL feels that I wasn't a good/polite/fun (insert the appropriate criticism) hostess. I'm sure she'll keep that in mind the next time she thinks about visiting again.'
Then leave it at that.
If people expect you to extend themselves...... they can stop being unfair, critical, pain in the a** trouble makers.
If they don't mind your withdrawing with love, then they can continue that innapropriate behavior you've chosen no to participate in.
Does that make sense?
I know I should not care. I know it does ot matter. But I am shaking in my socks, thinking, what is my sister in low is going to say about me when she gets back home. It is eating me alive. I know, I know. It should not. I am a good host. I tried my best to do the best for her. It should not matter to me what she is going to say about me. But, given the tendencies of my family, nobody is ever grateful, nobody says thanks, nobody is loyal. I think, she will probably say bad things about me. But I hope, secretely, I hope that she might have liked me as a person and say good things about me. God knows how much I would like for somebody to like me.
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Dear Lighter, Very dear Lighter, yes it makes sense. I hope I can apply it. Dont know if I can. Better say, I can, but I know it is going to be painful.
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Sit and write about it for a while.
Start with the screaming upset raging anger you have.
The heartbreaking pain of the worst case scenarios.
Re read it and write about it again.
Re read it and write about it again.
Re readi it.... if you still need to..... and write about it again.
Eventually, you have everything internalized and understood so that you can respond and remain calm to any craziness they throw at you.
It's the best feeling to face a person who causes guilt and confusion to keep you off balance.
Imagine their surprise when you stare them straight in the eye and stay on track.
People of the lie...... don't like to be nailed down with facts.
don't like to answer on target questions that expose them.
don't like to stick to the subject.
don't like it when you remain firm in your ideas and refuse to be sidetracked with emotional terrorism.
Lordy Loo..... the ones that ACCUSE you of DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY"RE DOING.....
really don't like it, lol; )
Maybe that's what becoming comfortable in our own skin is all about?
Just figuring out how we really feel about something.... then honoring it?
Not sure but I see you grow and apply lessons you've learned, ((Lupita))
It's so satisfying to read I get tingles: )
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Lighter, Thank you. I love this board.
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This is the most important. I believe this is called projecting. If I am right my mother is projecting all all all the time!!!!
It's the best feeling to face a person who causes guilt and confusion to keep you off balance.
Imagine their surprise when you stare them straight in the eye and stay on track.
People of the lie...... don't like to be nailed down with facts.
don't like to answer on target questions that expose them.
don't like to stick to the subject.
don't like it when you remain firm in your ideas and refuse to be sidetracked with emotional terrorism.
Lordy Loo..... the ones that ACCUSE you of DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY"RE DOING.....
really don't like it, lol; )
Moving on. I need to stop thinking of my mother. I guess that cant stop until my family goes away. Soon school will start. They will go home in two more days and I will be back to my routine. Gym, dance classes, study for my exam, work, etc.
I need to move on. But, believe it was not a step back, this visit of my family was not a steo back, it was a step forward, it taught me a lot.
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I need to move on. But, believe it was not a step back, this visit of my family was not a steo back, it was a step forward, it taught me a lot.
You don't need to stop thinking about her, Lupita.
It's more a matter of going through the process of giving up hope and admitting you'll never be treated well or loved by her.
That hurts a lot and there's a little girl inside you that needs to talk about it.
She needs to rant and mourn and wail and give up hope to.
If she doesn't get her say...... you'll never be able to stop thinking about your M.
It'll come out all over your life.... in ways you don't understand.
After you've done that....and it takes a little while.....
you can be done thinking about her.
You can turn towards new things without her following you.
Finish that business.... don't turn away from it.
Start new business and be very choosey, in the meantime.
Before you know it.... you won't fee so bad anymore.
You'll turn around and realize you feel good.... and you're glad to be alive again.
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Well, today is Wednesday, and they are almost gone. I have a mixture of sadness and happiness. Loneliness and relieve. I do not know how it will feel to come back home after the airport and find my lonely apartment, no suitcases all over, my bedroom all or my self, my bed back, my space. But my play companions are going to be gone. Like in my childhood. Nobody to play with. Always playing by my self. Despite having a brother and a sister. My apartment will sound like a cemetery.
I am just waiting for what she is going to say about me, there at home. My mother is going to use it against me. She will tell me, I told you, nobody loves you, she is a hypocrit.
I want to think that she is a good person and that she likes me. Or, weather she likes me or not, it does not matter. Nothing will change in my life if she likes me or not. It does not matter.
I had fun anyway. That counts.
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Dear Lupita,
I think that you are a DIFFERENT person now than when your mother came. I think that you are getting better and better. Love Ami
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Dear Lighter,
I just now read this:
"Eventually, you have everything internalized and understood so that you can respond and remain calm to any craziness they throw at you.
It's the best feeling to face a person who causes guilt and confusion to keep you off balance.
Imagine their surprise when you stare them straight in the eye and stay on track.
People of the lie...... don't like to be nailed down with facts.
don't like to answer on target questions that expose them.
don't like to stick to the subject.
don't like it when you remain firm in your ideas and refuse to be sidetracked with emotional terrorism.
Lordy Loo..... the ones that ACCUSE you of DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY"RE DOING.....
really don't like it, lol; )
Maybe that's what becoming comfortable in our own skin is all about?
Just figuring out how we really feel about something.... then honoring it?"
Yes!
That's it!!
Lupita repeated it.
Just thought it bore repeating... again! Thank you!
Dear Lupita,
I agree with Lighter about the need to finish this business.
When we try so hard NOT to think about something or someone, that's exactly when the haunting begins. This stuff needs to get out there into the open where the Light can chase away the shadows. You write and talk and let it all out there until it's purged.
And dear Lupita, I believe that your sister-in-law honestly likes you.
I cannot imagine someone not liking you, Lupita.
Whether she is strong enough to stand on that truth and walk by it in front of the rest of the family doesn't change that fact. You are likeable and loveable, Lupita.
If your sis-in-law is too weak to let the rest of the family know how wonderful you are and how much fun she had with you, then that is her weakness showing, not anything about you. Her weakness does not reflect on you at all, okay?
Yes, it counts that you had fun. In your heart, I think you know that she had fun, too. I hope that you will be able to stop feeling like there is some weight hanging over your head about what she may say to the others. She may not be strong enough to speak her truth before them. But you are!
Hugs and love,
Hope
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:::Beep beep beeeeep ba beep beeeep beeep beep:::
Orders coming through for Lupita, the lovable.
Put some music on.... whatever makes ya happy..... when you get back to your apartment.
IT MUST SOUND HAPPY, Lupita!
THAT's an ORDER!
And..... smell good would be nice too; )
But only a suggestion.
ps... if your SIL says mean things about you, she does it bc she feels it makes her look better.... when she criticizes you.
She wouldn't say mean things if she was threatened about how she looks to others, ya know?
As for your mother..... you'll never make sense of why she does what she does.
It's nonsensical and we all LIKE YOU VERY MUCH, so there!
::sticking tongue at at Lupita's mum:: NA Nuh NA Nuh Boo Poo!
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Family, a pain in the neck, but when they are gone they leave a vacum heart. I wish I had somebody to hug right now. I used to feel this pain when my mother left after vacation here with me. I do not miss her anymore. So, this indifference and fidgust I feel for my mother will come too with the rest of the family. Until I do not feel anything for anybody.
I know I will feel better. It lasts ofr a day or two. I am very familiar with this.
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My son knew. He just came. He knows I need company. How can he be so mature and so giving? He misses his cousin and I miss my play mates. Nobody to play with, like in my childhood. I feel sorry for my self, not for her, I guess. She is going to naricissistic husband and an invalid 18 yo son, in an underdeveoped country. I am in the US of A, nice malls, nice theme parks, my son in a nice University, healthy, great musician. I am so confused. My mother programed me to hate this woman, and I like her. I enjoy her company. I do not want to feel guilty because I am "intercahnging chewing gum wih my mother's worst ebemy". I feel sorry for her. It most be very hard to be married to my brother. God knows I wish I was her friend with out betraying my "family". She was abused too. Her mother is a parasite.
God, I am so confused. Then she said she wanted to buy a shirt for my son. We went to the mall. She bought the shirt that my son wanted. I was very surprised when I saw the recit, $78.00. He deserved it. He is the one that was driving around to get the computers they wanted, to consult different prices, to call my brother for aproval to spend the money.
I told her that she needed professional help. She said that she was going to the T with my brother but he spoke all the time. I told her that she needed to go by her self so she can express her self with no witnesses. She promised me to do it. I hope in the Lord that I did not do anything wrong. God knows that if this woman does not get help, something is going to happen in that home. I asked to come back here whenever she wanted.
God knows I am acting out of love. God knows.
I am so confused.
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Two things come to mind....
"No good deed goes unpunished...."
and....
You told your SIL your truth.
You tried to help her.
Now sit back and wait for the fallout you expect to come of it.
WHat the heck!?
You're an awsome person who extends herself in all ways to people she loves, you don't deserve to live in this kind of fear!
You are a terrific family member and you've done NOTHING wrong.... please try to curb the guilt and dread of waiting for their innapropriate response, for surely it will be innapropriate.
You're job is to act towards them in a way that encourages more of what you want. Short of that.... you can't encourage or control better behavior from them.
They are marching you towards No Contact bc they can't be decent or kind.... never mind loving or non toxic.
::shrug::
Lupita.... dear..... they can't do any better.
You've been trying to show them and model better behavior.
I don't think it's working.
What you can do, in that case, is reach out mindfully to new people and activities.
This you've already started to do!
Tell me about the last dance class and what you wore and who you danced with?!!?!?
How many people showed up and where do the really good dancers go for fun to enjoy themselves outside of class.... where do they dance?!
You can go too and you can dance too and you can meet new people and practice observing yourself and them and enforcing those shiney new boundaries.
Time for Lupita to LIVE!
Lighter quote for the day....
"Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starvin"
Wasn't that Auntie Mame?
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Why yeah it was Auntie Mame! Who are we to question an expert like her?
Lupita just reading your posts about your visit, you are so hospitable and considerate and thoughtful - a wonderful, kind hostess!
You know my grandmother hated and always criticized her 2 daughters-in-law. I always thought she would hate anyone who married her sons. Maybe your mom is just the same and she just gives her daughter-in-law a hell of a time, just like she gives you a hell of a time. I don't think you have a solitary thing to feel guilty over. That was very sweet of you to support your sister in law.
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How can he be so mature and so giving?
Because of you.
((((((((((((Lupita)))))))))))))))
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Dear Lupita,
I wanted to echo what Peace said. He is the way that he is b/c you were,probably, a very loving and supportive mother Love Ami
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Hi Lup...
It was such a rough start to the visit and it ended so well!
With genuine affection and bonding between you and your SIL.
Who knows? Maybe one day she can move to the states.
Even if you never see her again (I don't mean that literally) this experience was real.
Try to take good evidence of good events into yourself, along with the farewell...
Good evidence of good things can be cumulative, and change the way you look at life.
One other thought: can you NOT OPEN your mother's emails for two weeks?
Since you are smart and can predict she'll be spiteful, why let her spoil the happy times you've just had????????
hugs
Hops
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OH OH OHhhhhhhhHHHH! Hops... that was brilliant!
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I agree with Lighter. Hops, that was brilliant. You all guys are wonderful. Just to come to the board and read your responses makes me feel better. That is all about. You are doing something nice, good, helpful. For the first time I feel grateful about something. I do not take for granted all your smiles. When we have suffered like we have, we come to appreciate the smiles of others. We know we did not get too many smiles in the past.
I went to my salsa class and dancing after the class. I danced with this guy. Usually I go around talking to everybody, dancing wit everybody. Everybody wants to be with me. But today, I was turned off by the departure or my relatives. So, I was not bubbling, and all the people that usually come around me, were little by little getting away. At the end, I was totally alone in a table. That means, to have company. I have to work, I have to do an effort. I want to have company, no matter what. NO matter if I am not being friecking Jay Leno, just to have company, just for my self.
Guess those have to be real friendships. I do not have those. They see me kind of sad and they go away.
I guy asked me for a date. On Friday. Even him, he decided to leave when he saw I was kind of sad. He said we would practice dancing going to a night club, but if we do not find a nice place, we would end up going to a book store and have a coffee. I said no, I want to dance, and not go read books. He said it was not important what we do but to enjoy each other's company.
Now I com to think he was hypocrit because he left because I was sad. So, he did not do what he was priching, about no matter what, just the company. I do not know if I should bring that up during our date on Friday, or just enjoy, have fun and forget about him in the future.
You know something? I am forgetting about my family just by thinking about this date and talking to you guys about it.
The dance was failure for me because I had inappropriate shoes, hurting my neas when turning around, too much friction with the floor. So, I could not dance anymore.
I know I will feel better tomorrow morning.
Dear everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. God bless you.
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Thank you lighter. Thank you for your thoughts. What do you mean by it is getting to cozy?
Do you think it is dangerous?
Of course dating can always hurt. If it is only one date it hurst. Or if there are more dates and later ends, it hurts. No matter what, it hurst.
My las date was five years ago. I thought it was a good idea, just to kind of remember the stress of a date. It is a mixture of pleasure and fear of the outcome. My son says I should enjoy the date no matter what the outcome is. Enjoy the journey and not the destination.
I have been alone for almost seventeen years. I have spider webbs in the area of dating. It is like and old basment full of mold and spiders. Rusty, rusty.
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What I meant to get accross to you, Lupita is...
1) You are on a date, enjoy yourself doing appropriate things and DANCE!
2) Do not find yourself answering innapropirate questions for this man.
3) If he asks you things he shouldn't.... about your history etc..... just cock your head, ask him 'Why do you want to know"' then jump up and say you're ready to dance again..... he isn't too tired to entertain you, now is he? Then laugh and dance some more.
4) You aren't an apple on a tree, there for this man to 'pick' you, if he so desires.
5) Pay attention, from observer mode, and watch what this guy does...... listen to what he say, yes yes yes.... but watch what he does harder. In observer mode it's interesteting to do, not upsetting and worry making.
6) If he keeps asking innapropriate questions.... 'tell me about your divorce' etc..... turn it around on him and ask him to tell you his entire life's story first.... then laugh and say you want to dance some more.
(hint) If your shoes start bothering you... take them off and dance some more.
Another rule of engagement.... MEET him at the location the date is supposed to take place. That way.... you don't have that icky OH YUCK he just stuck his tongue in my mouth parting moment at your house.
If you really like him..... saying goodnight at the date location and taking yourself home just makes the parting sweeter, IMO.
One warning..... dating like this can make a man really really like you too too quickly, prolong the best part of dating and make the guy seem better than he is: /
BTW.... I want you to go out and dance dance dance, date and dance some more. 17 years is long enough to wait. Go have fun and keep it fun.
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Dear Lighter, since you are being so nice, and it seems like you are on line now, please, I hope you can see this an answer. Or anybody who wish to give an opinion.
What if it is me the one that desires physical contact. I know that never the first date. Maybe a kiss. No more. I feel like a 15 year old and that I have no idea what to do. I do not know how to detect what his intentions are. Probably just get his basic insticts satisfied and ignore me later. I do not know. Dangerous for my poor little heart to be thinking about that before our first date.
At our dance shool last night, he asked me if it was OK for him to dance with a certain lady. I said no problem. I never thought he would asked me. Does that mean I have to ask not permission to dance with somebody else? Is it OK if I ask him directly what the heck is he thinking?
Well, about the advise to meet him at the place, I regret not to ask to friends before. I already accepted to be picked up at my house. In 17 years I only had three dates. The three dates were a total failure, and hurtful. So, no practice here.
He wanted dinner and dance. I said I am not huge fun fo eating at night. It makes me sick. So, I would have just something light, maybe half portion of a salda, or a cheescake, dessert. He does not drink and he was alcoholic, sober for 15 years. So I would not dare to rink beer with him. I would never hurt him intentionally.
I am not amking any sense. The good thing is that I am not thinking about my family.
What am I doing? Can somebody help?
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Hi Lupita,
I think having a date sounds nice! If he seems like a good person and treats you kindly, why not?
Just three suggestions:
1) stay in the present (don't speculate about the future)
2) trust your instincts and don't reveal too much too fast
3) don't "fall in love" quickly--just make friends
One more...enjoy!
hugs
Hops
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Thank you hops. Nobody has said anything about physical contact. I know definitively, no sex. I know that. But how about holding hands, or kissing. I am not talking about comfortable ness. I am talking about correctness. Something that is not goint to be misinterpterted. Easy woman, or something. What if I am dieing for an arm around my back? He is going to sense it immediately and probably secretely laugh. What if he tells my other class mates? Nobody will dance with me again in the class. What if they dance with me and start laughing? I will not know if something happened?
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry. I am going back to all patterns. High school pattenrs.
Just enjoy, and not speculate about the future. That is basic.
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My first DUOH was.... she/you/Lupita won't be drinking she could have driven herself easily!
My second was......Duoh... she didn't remember about guys being interested in women who are busy!
If you are busy and happy and doing your own thing.... they iinvariably want to get in on it and that usually includes physical contact with men. :shock:
If you follow the rules of engagement.... people will willbe drawn to you.
Remember.....making out like teenagers is prolly the very best part of physical contact. Making it last saaayyy.... for a year or two is a good place to start. JK.... sort'a.
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Dear Lupita,
It sounds to me like you are going in to a "shame cycle' which is really EASY to go in to---at any stressful event or moment.
I 'hear" you,internally"freaking out". I hear the little kid in you wanting to be liked and accepted.
I think that you have 'slipped "in to your "little kid".
The problem with 'our" little kid is that it was abused. So,'normal" people can cope with things that send us in to orbit. A date would not be a huge life "threatening" event to someone who had developed 'adult" internal resources.
I think that you made the first really big step toward growth by telling the "truth" about how your M treated you. You exposed the ugliness and horror of your M. Also, you found other people who could relate. -You are not alone. You have been through a terrible horror ,but there are other people who understand.
Then ,you will take the next steps toward healing. For me, they were simply to keep facing the truth.The truth has the power to heal.
As far as the date, I think that you are "expecting" yourself to act like a "grown woman" when you are just a little "abused" child inside.
Inside, you are that little kid who was used so terribly by your M. My "advice" is to just concentrate ,first ,on your healing. The date will come and go. It really does not mean that much,one way or another.What really means something is your healing.(IMO)
That will take time. It will take time to "grow up" to the point where "small" things like a date do not make you unglued. This is simply my take on it. Love Ami
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WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is that the Amy I have been reading about?
My god, you sound so wonderful. I love your opinions, I love your advises, you are a wise woman!!!!!!!
Absolutly. I will think deeply in what you said. Totally agree with you.
I hope I do not grab this man and tell him how much I need him to love me. I will not, I will control my self. I will, I will, I will. I hope I do not become a kissing spider, and he has to tie my hands.
I will do my best not to embarrasse my self.
:oops: I will try.
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Can somebody come here tomorrow night and restrain me?
LOL
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You should have a check list ready for tomorrow night, lol.
Really comfy dancing shoes. CHECK
Great dress that flairs out and makes you fee pretty when you twirl. CHECK
An idea of what you'll eat..... that little salad and some protein are good. I don't like to eat much when I know I'm to dance either.
I have one small problem with dating a guy who's involved in something you love, Lupita.
He'll still be there if things go south or his head starts spinning, ya know?
If you really want to meet people to date, or muff up a bit...... whatever, then why not practice on some NON DANCE CLASS folkes a bit first?
Personally, I think you'll have a great time out dancing, sober with this guy but......
I can just picture the posts that you'll be agonizing over if he doesn't turn out to be a gentleman or a decent fellow or anything you've already brought up.
Keep it fun and casual (don't give him information about your past.... NOW is OK) Don't get physical with him till you've known, and trusted him, for at least 6 months.
If you must get physical you can always tell him up front that you intend to make out like teenagers, clothes on, and if he's not square with that he can find something else to do.
((((Lupita)))) You're going to have a great time. Listen to him when he speaks, he'll probably tell you everythiing you need to know about him. Whatever he's doing NOW, is what he'll be doing in any relationship he has with you.
Sidebar.... I don't like it that he's asking you permission to dance with someone.
I would really dislike you're feeling pressured to ask him for his permission (read that as ACT MARRIED) to dance with someone else.
I don't like it and red flags are flying all over the field for me Lup: / Casual. Have fun. Let him see you have fun. You don't owe him ANYTHING and he owes you nothing. You are single and beginning to get out and date. Enjoy that and don't tell anyone about your personal life, hon.
EXCEPT US, OF COURSE,lol; )