Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: WRITE on August 06, 2007, 05:51:53 PM
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I could also call this 'who am I?' or 'who are we?' I suppose, shifting focus a bit, but one of the things which is happening to me lately it's like passing through the transporter on Star Trek, you know, the figure is shadowy light then becomes solid.
I'm still beaming in and out so I guess it's still 'the engines cannae take it...' moments or something! But every day I do feel more strong and purposeful at least some of the time.
I'm a full-time musician.
I have an eleven year old son about to enter middle-school.
I have a good friend ex husband who despite his NPD is pretty kind to me these days.
I live in America and will be staying there for the forseeable future.
I write and paint and compose and sing. A lot.
I have an illness called Bipolar or Manic Depression which is under control mostly.
I have a dog and will get a kitten or two.
Less and less I am looking down on myself whilst doing and feeling all this stuff, and I go hours now without being melancholy or introspective.
I laugh a lot.
I write a thankfulness journal every day.
I love the changing seasons and nature.
I have many people in and out of my life.
I have made peace with everyone in my life except my mother who is dead.
I am loved.
***
My ex: I told him I will be going back to college in the spring. He didn't make one negative comment or grow critical or competetive. He said 'good idea' and nodded.
He offered to buy me a washer-dryer for my new place and has told me he will make up any shortfall in income I require over the next few months, whilst I 'get on my feet'.
A few days ago we were discussing one of my friends, I think her ex is NPD but he's never been 'diagnosed', anyway they're going back to court over their son and my ex said 'it's child abuse isn't it, the way they argue with that child.'
I asked him yesterday why he is being so kind to me.
'I love you. I always have.'
Me: 'like a wife?'
Him: 'no. I'm not ready for that.'
And we smiled and that was it, we're just two normal people getting on with our lives, a bit involved but no longer this enmeshed stuff we've been doing for 20-some years. We've both let go, and we're both going to parent together, and we're both going to be okay I think.
That's pretty big, isn't it?
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Dearr WRITE,
I am really happy for you. It shows me that our job is to find out who we are and then let it "shine'. Much Love to You Ami
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((((((((Write)))))))
That is all amazingly big, I'd say!
And amazingly real :)
Is your son excited about entering mid-school? Mine is... only 2 weeks!!
Love,
Hope
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Write,
It's just big enough.
:D :D :D
love
Hops
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Since I wrote all this had a huge row with my son. He keeps trashing my boundaries.
All sorted now, and ex totally supported me though he did point out calmly and with humour when we were alone that I too crossed a boundary and that I shouldn't have smashed a cup on the floor!
:oops:
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Write,
I think I am missing a plate myself. You are not alone with the ever so testing (11 or 12 year olds). I hear ya!
Love
Deb
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I think he's actually nervous about going back to school....yes 2 weeks, thank G_d!
Summer's are LONG here, 13 weeks this year.
Testing is the right word :)
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I think he's actually nervous about going back to school....yes 2 weeks, thank G_d!
Summer's are LONG here, 13 weeks this year.
Testing is the right word :)
Ahh.. middle-school is a big adjustment, going from classroom to classroom and so many different teachers.
I guess it's 13 weeks here, as well... but it's zoomed past, for the most part. Different having 2 still at home... they can bounce each other off the walls when they get bored :lol: His sister will be a junior in high school, so not much longer to bounce... lol.
So far, so good... everyone's still speaking to each other.
Peaceful night to you, Write... with love,
Hope
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Write:
I'm pretty sure my N..... isn't really really an N.
This makes me sad in some respects......
to read your post and feel this huge gap between me and my soon to be ex.
I always thought that all N's would cut off pieces of their children and eat them if they got hungry......but I was wrong?
I don't think yours would, in any case.
Not now, anyway.
I guess I had a tough evening and it's coming out now.
Sorry about that...... your post leaves me speechless..... short of the above thoughts.
I know I'm glad for you though.
::whispering::
Just be careful.
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NPD is just a label Lighter. It's the behaviours which are problems, whether a person has personality-disorder or not.
It all makes me content that eventually I am sort-of getting what I wanted in terms of a happy healthy family, though not in the way I wanted.
And if you want anything to put you off involving yourself with someone with severe problems - and G_d knows I don't intend to go this route again- it's been 25 years to get here.
And thousands of dollars in therapy.
Even if I had the health and stamina and money to go through it all again, I don't think I have the time do I!
Sorry you had a tough evening, here's a hug ((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Love
~W
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Thanks, Write.
I'll take that hug.....
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Hey Write,
That's definately big enough xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Wow!!!
Spyralle x
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NPD is just a label Lighter. It's the behaviours which are problems....
Isn't it a label for certain pervasive and associated behaviors though?
I, apparently like lighter, have often had a hard time reconciling your description of your ex and the NPD diagnosis. He certainly seems to display an inordinate amount of non NPD humility, introspection and support along with his N type behaviors.
If whoever diagnosed him did so correctly I'd say you were fortunate to have one who barely clears the bar.
Many of us only know those to whom such relatively decent and reasonable conversations and behaviors like the ones you describe of your ex are not only unimaginable but utterly impossible.
mud
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If whoever diagnosed him did so correctly I'd say you were fortunate to have one who barely clears the bar.
Many of us only know those to whom such relatively decent and reasonable conversations and behaviors like the ones you describe of your ex are not only unimaginable but utterly impossible.
that's been the problem with me swimming against the tide for a long time dear Mud- remember when y'all used to tell me I was crazy ( I may be paraphrasing that ) and he'd never change?
And then sit with me through setback after setback.
You must have all thought I was the most naive and stupid person ever, but I always saw this glimmer in my ex, always knew he could change if he tried to.
I wouldn't advocate anyone doing what I have tried to do- and no doubt the next set of setbacks will have people tutting and wondering just what kind of an idiot I am- but nothing's impossible Mud, and especially not with G_d.
You know I have always felt it was my path as a Christian to help my ex as much as I can and allow him to see my vulnerability in that. And yes- he has hurt me.
But I have survived, and kept my family together, and possibly helped him and definitely helped me.
Some people with personality disorder may be out-and-out monsters, and I am not doubting that with most NPD people behaviour is frightening and confusing and maddening.
But I have to take some responsibility for our relationship dynamics too.
Ex stopped abusing me when I stopped allowing it.
He started listening to my truth when I got brave enough to speak it, then shout it, then speak it again.
And he started being kinder and learned humility after I did....
This is a problem with a support group- you only belong whilst you can share the same problems.
I noticed the exact same thing when I finally stopped drinking.
Comments of 'well your problem isn't as bad as mine' crept in as my abstinence months crept up, and it started to feel like gloating to celebrate victories and milestones.
Same with the bipolar- I have had the same levelled at me 'it would be impossible/unimaginable for me to live without medication' etc.
One of the reasons I have overcome all this stuff is undoubtedly I could afford to- financially I have had the best family input from psychiatrists and a wonderful therapist just for me for the past four or so years.
But the strongest is this- when people have said it's impossible I have still carried on, done it anyway if it felt like the right thing. You can't know how many times I've picked myself up, over and over, though I have often written about it and been encouraged here.
I'm sorry other people haven't had similar outcomes with their difficult situations but I've been through all this and I am going to savour every single triumph. Because I've worked for it. And earned it. And I'd do exactly the same thing again.
Je ne regrette rien! I tell you....
*
That's not to say anyone should undertake a relationship with NPD or alcoholism or mental illness or any other problem in it; now I am well I am trying to look for relationships with healthy people, or at least people who can manage their unhealthiness.
And that's another place where it was my responsibility too- breaking a pattern of looking for situations and relationships with severe problems so I could avoid myself.
*
There's one thing I especially do not regret in any of this.
When my bipolar was at its worst I vowed as I recovered never to do anything hurtful or hateful ever, and to raise the bar on my values and standards so that if and when I do get sick I am living the best life I can.
I don't have casual relationships/sex, flirt, hang around with people who are married, and especially don't allow myself to be dismissive or unkind any more.
Then when I do get manic I don't find myself embroiled in affairs or horrible arguments or vulnerable situations.
And you know- as I have changed my family has changed, ex has changed. If he goes for therapy he'll change more; I no longer feel that's any of my business so long as he takes care of our family and behaves acceptably.
But if he does change and grow and overcome his limitations I will be the first to cheer and encourage that; it would be churlish of me not to surely, and to keep going back and simply continue pointing out all the things he's done wrong etc?
I asked him to make recompense, to undertake acts of apology and compensation. And I know he feels better for doing them, now he 'gets' what it means.
But also- I would still be afraid of him, as I was for so long, even until recently when I had the courage to finalise the divorce, if I hadn't said all this and risked rejection or humiliation.
And I'm not afraid now, of anything. Of being left out, or criticised, of being sober, of loneliness, of my illness or my past....I can do this and build the life I want and my family needs.
As you said a few weeks ago, out of great difficulty and pain has come growth and strength. I'm wobbly but I'm going to be fine.
~W
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Dear Mud and WRITE,
I wanted to pop in with a thought, My M is a full blown NPD-- do doubt. However,my H can be like WRITE's H-- so I don't know. Just sharing my response to your posts. Hope that I did not butt in on the thread Love Ami
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Ami,
Hope that I did not butt in on the thread
If nobody butted in on threads we would all just be talking to ourselves. :P
mud
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remember when y'all used to tell me I was crazy ( I may be paraphrasing that ) and he'd never change
Yes I do and that's one reason I have tried to temper my remarks somewhat regarding borderline Ns, which I still beieve your ex is.
Nor do I ever believe (despite a little hyperbole earlier) that change is impossible in any case. Like you I believe with God all things are possible. But absent divine intervention, for those people who are not on the borderline, but pervasively display full scale NPD or psychopathic behaviors, the evidence is overwhelming that in nearly every case they simply do not change and are just not capable of the behavior your ex is. They may theoretically be capable of it (I believe myself that they are, as I believe that NPD still involves volitional behavior) but practically speaking it simply doesn't happen. And as you rightly caution, the risks of attempting to engage with one who is impervious to peaceful overtures, can lead to catastrophic consequences.
Ex stopped abusing me when I stopped allowing it.
He started listening to my truth when I got brave enough to speak it, then shout it, then speak it again.
And he started being kinder and learned humility after I did....
I would that these words applied to all of us, but for most people here;
Ex abused, assassinated the character of, financially harmed, threatened and generally did all he or she could to destroy the lives of those who try to stop allowing the abuse.
He or she listened to the truth and then countered it with an avalanche of the most venal and despicable lies imaginable to anyone who would listen.
And he or she responds to kindness and humility with a good stiff kick in the teeth as they perceive kindness and humilty as weaknesses to be pounced upon.
I asked him to make recompense, to undertake acts of apology and compensation. And I know he feels better for doing them, now he 'gets' what it means.
That is wonderful and I'm glad he chose to make amends, but most people's experience when asking those things is to suddenly find their head inside a distincly hungry and rude lion's mouth.
Don't get me wrong, I respect and admire your tenacity in sticking it out. And I admire your ex for the very difficult effort he has put in to change. i think that is a wonderful example for those who are struggling with the rare one who actually will put in that effort. My only point was that we all tend to extrapolate our own experiences into generalizations at times; me, you and others. But the cliinical evidence I have seen points to your ex being the rare exception who proves the rule, whereas someone like lighter or Brigid or mum or mia or CB or so many others are stuck with what an Old Testament writer might call a beast of the field; conscienceless predators to whom the kindness and humility of others lead them inexorably to their regular noonday snack. I'm not saying we shouldn't be kind and humble only that (sticking to the animal theme) we should also be wise as serpents while we're being as harmless as doves. And a wise serpent knows that a gimlet eyed galoot coming at him with a big stick probably isn't interested in a game of fetch.
mud
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I'm glad he chose to make amends, but most people's experience when asking those things is to suddenly find their head inside a distincly hungry and rude lion's mouth.
Yup.
And a wise serpent knows that a gimlet eyed galoot coming at him with a big stick probably isn't interested in a game of fetch.
Yup Yup. I had one of those gimlet eyed galoots. Had to nab that big stick and chase him off with it.
(((((((((((((((Write))))))))))))))
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Had to nab that big stick and chase him off with it.
Should have just bit his femoral artery. :twisted:
mud
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Mud I can't even remember all your story now about your involvement with NPD but I don't think comparing Ns is any more use than comparing any other behaviour traits really. There's no generalising. Especially with NPD- one of the biggest problems is the inconsistency and the charm then the switch-off....
People are individuals and though they get lumped together because of their similarities they are all different. Good and bad, right and wrong. It's impossible as you say to generalise and yet- people do.
Yes, there are some psycopaths in our world, but no they aren't everywhere. My ex has done some pretty inexplicable and mean things, some destructive things over the years. But I'd be demonising him if I said he was evil or all bad even at the worst of times.
He just doesn't get it often, he's just broken.
It was realising that which made me work on how to communicate and not expect him to think and behave like me.
And I'm not saying anyone else should do what I do/did.
I'm just really happy to see above the clouds with my family. It's been a long time coming.
And I still say- whatever someone else does: it's my personal integrity which counts, that's what I'd have to live with later. I can be pretty mean myself sometimes....
most people's experience when asking those things is to suddenly find their head inside a distincly hungry and rude lion's mouth.
doesn't mean they shouldn't ask though does it?
Or say 'this is what I expect'.
Even if we don't get it, why not assert ourselves anyway?
What's the worst that can happen when someone has already torn up our life and trashed our confidence?
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I must say: there is worse which can happen when you declare to NPD that you require peace and no further disruption of that peace. I had to flee my home and get an order of protection. He made it quite clear that he would rule or I would not live.
Hope
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He made it quite clear that he would rule or I would not live.
it's always a difficult one where there's violence CH, because standing up to a violent person often escalates the violence at least in the short term.
But also staying with the violent person means suffering violence or the risk of violence too.
And for a tiny minority, whether they stay or go, they will be murdered, even where there are support services and law enforcement intervention.
I used to think ex would kill me not with violence, which was always an anger outburst and quickly over, but by driving me over the edge with stress. Sometimes I thought my head would explode, or that I was literally losing my ability to think and function. One year that was true too.
I still think it all came to a head the point I said 'do your worst- I don't care any more'.
And I meant it, things couldn't be any worse for me.
He doesn't rule your life now CH? I hope not.
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No, he doesn't rule my life anymore, Write... except for a fleeting moment, occasionally, when I wonder whether that's him in a passing vehicle. Very fleeting.
But he did for 2 years after he was gone... through fear.
Maybe he just wanted me to say, do your worst; I don't care anymore.
Yes, actually, I think that's just exactly what he wanted.
Love,
Hope
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(((((Hope)))))
You must have gone through real terror.
I am so sorry.
He lives in the same town/city? :(
Hops
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Dear Hops,
Thank you... ((((((((Hops)))))))
...sometimes I think that it didn't take a whole lot to bring me to feel like I was in hell. I was very sensitive.
And sometimes I wonder whether it was foolish of me to be so frightened. But he stalked and dragged me through court for a year following my remarriage, and my husband now - who began as a "pshaw, he's just an old con-artist" kinda guy - experienced enough of his acid eyes and antics to purchase and install a motion detector light in our yard. And a shotgun. My shotgun. For well over a year, I'd go to the door and cock that gun into the darkness, just to hear the sound echo. That was one of my little steps to curing ptsd.
Husband still locks his vehicle in the driveway, too.
Yes, he still lives in the area, far as we know. Occasionally I check the local county court records online, to see what he's been up to.
There was a ticket this past spring, failure to wear a seatbelt. Showed he's still got my address on his driver's license. Figures.
Anyhow, I'd been through alot with my kids' dad, but never before experienced such a severe threat of immediate physical harm. And I hated knives... which N loved... and he'd used them before to leave me little signs of his dominion over me. (Leaving them at the very edge of the countertop, just as I'd asked him not to do, lest there be an accident, after just such a thing happened to my mother.) He let me know that he'd be thrilled to see just such an accident occur, by deliberately placing them there forever-afterwards, on every occasion when he was displeased with me.
I was in his head, Hops. [SOOOPH - Stay out of other peoples' heads!]
But I was there in that twisted mind, for better or for worse, because that was a matter of survival to me and my kids, and I knew - once he went so far as to let it out that he had the will and power to put a knife into me, not just let it happen by accident, the follow-through may not be far behind. I knew exactly what he wanted me to know - he had my life and my childrens' lives in his hands.
If it weren't for my children, maybe I would have said, "Do your worst, I don't care anymore." And maybe he would have calmed down and straightened up a bit and we would have been able to have the occasional, reasonable meeting of the minds. ::deep shudder:: and BLECH!!
The man is the walking dead and he wanted me to join him in zombie-land.
That's a fact.
That is what NPD does, imo.
I do not believe that NPD is just a label because I do not believe that NPD is a mental illness. It's a choice of will to submit to the death of one's soul, imo.
It's a deliberate decision to become a set of behaviors, not merely be influenced by them. I do not say that ex suffers from NPD like I would say he suffers from diabetes or depression or high cholesterol or anxiety.
He is NPD. That is his identity, not some condition which waxes and wanes.
Dear Write,
You have bi-polar, it does not have you.
I believe that true NPD has its hosts because they welcome it, entirely, inviting it to consume them and willingly choosing to let it be one with them.
Maybe you have been with your ex for so long, and from such a young age, that he does not feel so threatened by you... you don't tug at his mask, unintentionally even, with every breath.
Maybe your ex has mellowed with age and is able now to view you as the one person in his life with whom he can relate without obliterating them.
Maybe.
I do not know.
Ex is able to do that with his mother for the most part, in between the occasional rage and act of sabatoge.
But if your ex is npd, I do believe that you'll see a different aspect, if and when you become seriously involved in another relationship.
Ex would have been perfectly happy to live in my storage shed in the backyard, as long as he had access to regular feeding times... and I mean feeding on my soul, not at the table.
And here I am writing about npd again, not pretty blue fountains.
I think that's because the notion that a person can peacefully co-exist, with such a close connection to pathological npd, is... mind boggling and... rather abhorrent, and... here is the real clincher - it produces guilt. In me, it does.
I felt terrible for him. Tried to get adult protective services to look after him.
That only infuriated him. He hated it that I might consider him unable to help himself and proceded to show me, through the courts, just how adept he was. I didn't even try to get him to pay half the debt... carried it myself, rather than let him think that this was in any way about money issues.
I'm sorry, Write... it simply does not compute to my brain that a person can make a peaceful resolution with NPD. Maybe I need to believe that it's impossible in order to justify my own actions. Because I did love him and want to help him. I couldn't.
((((((((((Write)))))))) thanks for hearing.
Love,
Hope
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I hear you both.... CH and Write.
I can't reconcile what I know about my N with your N, Write.
All N's are not equal.
Some feel they are far far superior to other N's.
::clearing throat::
I would wax on about how he must have tendencies and not be completely NPD but.....
you're right.... it is just a label for behaviors.... and I'm no professional, in any case.
That you got through to your N is marvelous for your entire family.
I'm happy for you.
I just don't think it could happen for a lot of us and I know the next steps for me in trying with my N......
may be finding myself sleeping with the fishes.....
or worse.
I'd have to go into what the most cost effective way to dispose of me would be....hmmmm...
::shaking head::
But I digress...
I duck when cars ride alongside me too, CH.
If my N were to offer me something reasonable I'd run for cover.
I assume anything he says is a lie and maybe a lie wrapped in an enigma..... ::sigh:: you know the drill.
I lock doors compulsively and my children know what the signs on them mean.
Yes... I have signage on my doors for the children's benefit.
And mine.
It's just a normal way of life now and I suppose I'll be doing it for the rest of my life and trying to feel normal about it.
Sometimes I do.
I've not been robbed of happiness and a life, just bc I'm living under threat from my N.
Terrorizing me into submission is his game though......
He admits it, lol!
Ruling through fear is something my N wants to do, is DRIVEN to do.......
he can bs me for a day or 2 but......
when I'm really aware and paying attention to him....
it takes him about 2 days of not getting his anticipated payoff before he turns into Mr. Hyde.
Again.
What that means is.....he drops the facade rather quickly and begins trying to rule through fear.
Again.
It turned into a macabre good N/BadNn routine that would have been funny had I not been fearing for my life at the time.
At a distance, it's still not funny.... come to think of it,
bc ruling by fear makes sense to him and he doesn't understand that being kind and honoring a promise wou;dn't kill him, lol.
Lord help him..... I think he, on some level, beleives it would.
Isn't that what all addicts have a hard time reconciling?
Their fear of loss with the reality?
The reality of what it would really cost them....
and the impact on their lives. Hmmmm....
Maybe your N was broken down to the point of seeing beyond his own control needs, Write?
My N only go stronger and committed more crimes and made up more lies and reached his tentacles out farther to control more people or hurt them in order to MAKE me do what he was DEMANDING I do.
He talked about it honestly..... they really do tell on themselves Mud.
Like any self assured tyrant does......
Expanding his campagn to hurt people I barely know...... etc etc etc
That's really quite something.
All that responsibility on my shoulders..... eh?
I did finally just say..... 'do your worst, I don't care.' (Of course, I had a TPO BEFORE I said it)
'Let me know how that works out for ya' is what I would say to him now.
If he's going to hurt those people..... I can only warn them and hope for the best, try not to look unstable while doing it.
It's no my fault..... it's his and I'm curiouse to see the accountability chart, at the end of all this.
I'm curiouse to see if I'll be the only one held accountable.... for allowing myself to be victimized.
That could happen, I know it could.
I've taped recorded so many hours of conversations I'm dizzy.
I've documented everything to the point of feeling.....
feeling.......
odd about it.
But no one is going to say to me again..... 'why didn't you do __________ if he was doing __________' EVER EVER EVER AGAIN!
Never.
I'll let everyone know how all this works out for me.
The only thing I can say for sure, up to this point is,
I couldn't be Ok at playing his game.
He salted me up and had me for lunch, laughing and shooting me sly looks of giddy glee when the attorney's and court reporter weren't looking.
Sick sick sick little lion and I put my head in his mouth, yes..... that I did. The only reason he sucked on it and didn't chomp it off is bc the court system is involved and he'd go away for a long long time.
He still waiting.... biding his time, hunting and doing what he always has..... I gess hoping it's not being documented too. :shock:
He still might do some jail time.... be quite surprised if he could help himself, quite frankly.
And that's just the thing...... I DON'T THINK HE CAN HELP HIMSELF.... or he would.
Broken?
Yes
Beyond repair?
I believe he thinks he's the superior being to all the little people ......
there's no reason for him to change/fix himself if he views change as a lowering of himself.....
becoming a chump....
nice guys finish last and all that.
Healthy red blooded American men PREY on women, in his twisted world.
And that;'s how he sees it.
S U P E R I O R I T Y
It's his right, neigh.... it's his destiny and his obligation to share himself with the world and take what he is entitled to....
RISK IS LIVING!
RISKING OTHER PEOPLE IS BIGGER LIVING FOR MORE SUPERIOR BEINGS!
His right to take what he wants.... and what he wants are things he has no right to.
He wants to take things
and people
and things from people.......
and people are posessions too....
yup yup yup.....
I used to say..... 'no victims, only volunteers'
I think I can now wrap my mind around this adaptation...
'victims as volunteers'
that made my stomach flip to read and I don't have time to ponder it proper now.
Just bc someone abused me......
doesn't mean they get to get away with it and continue doing it just so everyone can avert their eyes....
without guilt?
It doesn't mean I have no rights, does it?
Well, maybe it does.
For the courts that are in over their heads and tired of sitting over property disputes in divorce cases, so jaded and unhappy are they....
maybe?
I don't think so.
We'll.....
just......
have......
to see,
I guess.......
Some day I'll tell you all a story.....
It's comforting to look back over the fates of tyrants,
historicallly speaking......
::nodding::
to see how it worked out for them.
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here I am writing about npd again, not pretty blue fountains.
well you must need to say it or you would just bypass my ramblings!
And no blue water, I thought I told you that, it's just too 'Toilet Duck' :)
I'm sorry, Write... it simply does not compute to my brain that a person can make a peaceful resolution with NPD. Maybe I need to believe that it's impossible in order to justify my own actions. Because I did love him and want to help him. I couldn't.
((((((((((Write)))))))) thanks for hearing.
you know the one thing that I know for certain with no doubt is that no one can help someone who isn't ready to be helped. Helping someone has to be a two-way process except for those short-term band-aid ropes of friendship we throw out or catch now and then.
You tried to help and he wasn't ready to be helped.
There's no guilt in that, no shame. He responded in a way which made you fearful for your safety and which compromised your finances.
I said about someone ( church guy ) being inexplicably mean to me recently 'he was pushing me away'. And your ex was pushing you away.
My ex pushed me away until there was a big enough space so he felt okay with us having a relationship again. If he had continued to threaten my safety and security and not knuckled down to make a good family environment for our son I would have had to do what you did.
So don't feel guilty, and thanks, despite your mixed feelings on this, for loving me enough to be glad things have worked out okay for me and for not judging my bipolar.
You've always been very strongly supportive CH and many times helped me see the big picture on something. Thank you.
He still might do some jail time.... be quite surprised if he could help himself, quite frankly.
back in england years ago this was the traditional measure of NPD, the person would be unable to stop themselves getting on the wrong side of the law, usually by adolescence that side would be showing, coupled with violence tendencies, and a person was already being identified as a psycopath.
Now the boundaries of these personality disorders seem to be re-drawn and they call that 'anti-social personality disorder' more and more.
NPD has become more the respectable side of the condition, businessmen being corrupt, people with OCD and sex addictions, people whose grandiosity outstrips their real capabilities.
That's what I mean by 'labels' really, they are quite slippery when trying to define people and individual psychology.
I believe he thinks he's the superior being to all the little people ......
there's no reason for him to change/fix himself if he views change as a lowering of himself.....
becoming a chump....
nice guys finish last and all that.
Healthy red blooded American men PREY on women, in his twisted world.
And that;'s how he sees it.
S U P E R I O R I T Y
It's his right, neigh.... it's his destiny and his obligation to share himself with the world and take what he is entitled to....
RISK IS LIVING!
RISKING OTHER PEOPLE IS BIGGER LIVING FOR MORE SUPERIOR BEINGS!
His right to take what he wants.... and what he wants are things he has no right to.
He wants to take things
and people
and things from people.......
and people are posessions too....
unfortunately Lighter this is a big part of the American Dream and US culture, no that's even too narrow a definition- 'the culture of SUCCESS'.
Success being measured in scalps and money and feeling better than everyone else and feeling good the whole time....
But the US is 'kissup-kickdown' in a way the UK wasn't; I haven't lived in other countries yet.
The difference in my story and yours is two-fold though Lighter.
First, my ex wanted my son and I said take him.
I saw a painting a few weeks later called Solomon's Judgement, two women haggling over a dead ( in this case ) baby, and it seemed like a sign to continue, though my sister said I was 'weak'.
Second, I have had no involvement with courts or solicitors.
I find the whole court system deeply disturbing, my concept of justice is shaken by examining court procedures and the people who work in courts.
Now you and others here are getting some good people and service in this department and so I won't over-generalise, but I do believe that some situations, like courtrooms, give birth to narcissistic behaviour. By which I mean: your truth versus my truth and never the two shall meet reasonably. There's a vested interest in each person totally believing their version and acting their part which to me defies reasonable-ness.
So I have been lucky not to have extra problem-people thrust upon me as so often happens; I have heard people say they felt doubly violated, first the original offence, then the court procedures.
And I could have lost my son, if ex had taken him overseas or out of state. But he stopped fighting me once he had what he wanted, and now I see my son all the time.
I think he thought I was trying to take son from him, in his warped perception. I wasn't, though I was concerned.
The biggest luck for me has been all this illness in many ways, though. If I hadn't completely fallen apart I wouldn't have stuck with the therapy, and wouldn't have said and done a lot of the things which lead to me being here, and wouldn't have come to a place where it was just me and G_d.
You'll get through this Lighter. CH has, and I have. Loads of people here have.
Love to everyone.
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Write... I have to believe I'll get through it but.....
the court system is everything you said and more.
My N says it's a game and he who tells the best story wins.
I admit it..... I'm envious of your short trip around the court system.
I wish it didn't have to be this hard: /
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(((((((Write))))))) No more toilet duck :) Thank you.
(((((((Lighter))))))) It is worth it.
Love,
Hope
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I'm envious of your short trip around the court system.
well I was told over and over that I was being a fool and I should 'take him for every penny' and 'make him pay' whilst simultaneously watching several people who were doing this get shafted by the court system as well....
I don't much care about money and power when it comes down to it though, I've been reduced to a place where all we have is ourself and belief. After that anything's possible.
Hang in there, your stuff is going as well as it could and will soon be over L ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Lighter stick to your guns...
I think he will get snarled up in his own shoelaces.
I'm so very sorry for the climate of fear. It also makes me coldly angry.
But I think you are so much stronger than your fear.
xo
Hops
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I think you are so much stronger than your fear.
exactly.
Maybe fear's like alcoholism and you have to hit rock-bottom to realise it's all better from then?
***
Once thing I am going to talk to my T about tomorrow which was a big source of my fear and is suddenly gone, for years being around ex felt like iNvasion of the psyche-snatchers. I used to swear he was borrowing my personality or something similar, it felt like only one of us could survive.
And that's gone, that's how I know something big has changed.
We're surviving and living independently of each other now, I don't feel like he's inside my head any more.
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Oh that last post made my stomach flip, Write.
Not even sure why but being so close to an N is....... scary for me.
I think dd's ear problems and just feeling out of routine and sorts has me living with a bit of anxiety today that colors my views.
My stomach would flip every time if I pictured my X at all today :shock:
Just not something I ever ever ever want to do again, quite frankly: /
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Dear Lighter,
That's not something I ever, ever, ever want to do again either.
I used to think that in order to be completely "okay" with all this, that I needed to overcome that particular sense of never-ever.
Now I don't think so.
Never-ever works just fine.
Love,
Hope
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I think for me the never-ever is about where I'm going not where I've been: I really don't want to spend the next X years of my life trying to fix anyone, not even me!
Went to therapy today and she commented as I left 'you are really taking care of yourself'.
That was nice to hear, even people around me are noticing.
Unward and upward....
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last night we found a little Yorkie dog exhausted from the heat, my son and I took care of it and just took it to the pound.
It's not really the right pet for me and the smell of it suggests a problem somewhere, it was lovely though and I shed a tear when we left it!
My son is SO moody though, I guess these teen years are upon us.
I need some extra resilience to cope with that, he's so upsetting.
He was so kind to that little dog last night and so mean to me this morning!
:(
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Glad to hear you're taking care of yourself Write.
Sorry to hear your son's going through teenaged angst in your direction.
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last night we found a little Yorkie dog exhausted from the heat, my son and I took care of it and just took it to the pound.
It's not really the right pet for me and the smell of it suggests a problem somewhere, it was lovely though and I shed a tear when we left it!
My son is SO moody though, I guess these teen years are upon us.
I need some extra resilience to cope with that, he's so upsetting.
He was so kind to that little dog last night and so mean to me this morning!
:(
((((((((Write)))))))))
I really hope that your son's behaviour calms once he begins school and his own fears are eased. My son said today that he's both excited and nervous... it's a big adjustment and can sure set a household on edge.
Take good care.
Love and more hugs,
Hope
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teenaged angst in your direction.
it's HORRIBLE isn't it! I'm sure I wasn't that bad....
My son said today that he's both excited and nervous... it's a big adjustment and can sure set a household on edge.
Hope he's doing okay CH. My son tends to have his melt-downs in advance, a sort-of prep phase for things, which i suppose is ( slightly ) better than an attack of nerves on the day.
He's going to ride the school bus for the first time too. I hate that they don't have any safety belts though.
There's always something to worry about isn't there...
*
One of my patients just fell asleep on my shoulder after I fed her lunch; I sat there still and quiet and thought about all the changes in life. I feel like i haven't caught up from things which happened years back never mind the present.
Life seems so imperfect in some ways...
This lady who was a teacher and very beautiful and very clever now can't talk or do much for herself, yet she remembers when I am going to be there and fetches me to give her lunch. I was lost in thought when she opened her eyes and kissed my cheek, then went back to sleep.
It's those moments we miss so easily, I just felt such a sense of joy and privilege and 'eveything is okay'.
Love
~Write
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This lady who was a teacher and very beautiful and very clever now can't talk or do much for herself, yet she remembers when I am going to be there and fetches me to give her lunch. I was lost in thought when she opened her eyes and kissed my cheek, then went back to sleep.
It's those moments we miss so easily, I just felt such a sense of joy and privilege and 'eveything is okay'.
Love
~Write
::sniff::
Poignant and touching, Write.
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Thank you, Dear Write :) Yes, son is doing well. He's keeping occupied with critters and games, and that helps... plus he's content with some new school-apparel and supplies we've gathered (munchies - granola bars, doritos... comfort food - lol). I think that I was on edge about that, because we waited longer than usual to shop for those things this year.
Feeling prepared seems to calm his nerves about such things (and mine!)... Scout training, you know :) Whenever we have to travel a distance, he likes to have his kit-bag with pencils, papers, a few toys... preparedness seems to be key for him. Thursday afternoon we go to the mid-school open house to get his class schedule, locker assignment, etc. He's familiar with the school from his sisters' past attendance there, plus it's located directly across from his old elementary.
The schoolbus is the least favorite part... they both hate it - so loud and long and dusty. Living rural, they have anywhere from 1-2 hours ride each way, depending on the driver's route. I don't know how they get away without seatbelts, but at least the seat-backs are fairly high.
I drive them in every so often, just to give them a break from it, but with gas prices as they are and all the extra running for band and other activities, can't do that too often. All I can do is to regularly put worry aside (one of those "get thee behind me" deals) and trust that all will work together for good. Always has!
How beautiful that you were present when that lady opened her eyes... to receive the best that she has to give you.
The past is so elusive... just as it should be, I think.
Love,
Hope
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Feeling prepared seems to calm his nerves about such things (and mine!)...
yes, it's a big thing isn't it, feeling prepared and ready to face something.
It's something I remember from my childhood we always seemed to do everything as an after-thought ( I suspect we were an afterthought ) and nothing was ever thought through properly.
they have anywhere from 1-2 hours ride each way
poor things, that's a long day.
The past is so elusive... just as it should be, I think.
The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there....
L P Hartley
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[
Once thing I am going to talk to my T about tomorrow which was a big source of my fear and is suddenly gone, for years being around ex felt like iNvasion of the psyche-snatchers. I used to swear he was borrowing my personality or something similar, it felt like only one of us could survive.
And that's gone, that's how I know something big has changed.
We're surviving and living independently of each other now, I don't feel like he's inside my head any more.
THANK you, WRITE.. This is exactly, exactly what happened with my M and me. Love Ami
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yes, it's a big thing isn't it, feeling prepared and ready to face something.
It's something I remember from my childhood we always seemed to do everything as an after-thought ( I suspect we were an afterthought ) and nothing was ever thought through properly.
It's funny, Write... my mother was always so organized and well prepared for everything. Mistress of lists. There was no lack... but there was a sense of being just another item on one of her lists.
Being thought through is not so satisfying or fulfilling. Being loved through is :)
The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there....
I will remember this!
Hugs to you, dear Write
Hope
L P Hartley
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Being thought through is not so satisfying or fulfilling. Being loved through is
my friend today wrote and said she and her husband of thirty years were going back to bed in all this rain, having a lazy day. It's the first time thinking of that intimacy hasn't made me sad, I just thought 'one day I'll find someone to do that with'.
I think I'm starting to accept my mother couldn't love me but I can love me.
"Mistress of Lists'. I like that!