Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: mrt on April 27, 2004, 01:31:07 AM
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I was watching The Swan tonight on Fox. My wife and daughters love the show and I have to admit I have been drawn in.
In tonight's episode a woman was about to go under the knife for all kinds of plastic surgery, and I guess she called her mother for moral support. Instead of support her mother started telling her daughter how crappy their lives were and was basically unloading on her.
I thought and said it outloud. Wow her mom's an N! Instead of giving her daughter support - she was basically focused on herself! Her daughter needed her and she just sent her daughter on a guilt trip. The daughter ended up crying and wishing that her mother wouldn't have shared so much. I knew those tears were more than likely, tears of dissappointment, loneliness and grief that her mother wasn't getting it. How many times have we all felt that way. Mom just doesn't get it!! Her mother was basically jealous of her daughter and couldn't see that her daughter was trying to say "hey mom - I'm going to have major surgery - I could die! - I need your blankin' support! That show's therapist should definitely have a talk to her about her N mother!
I've noticed a lot of these women deal with N people. One poor gal's dad told her school teachers when she was a child "Not to expect much out of her" This gal's husband or boyfriend was quoted as saying something to the effect that she wasn't much to look at. No wonder these women want to carve themselves up!
This show is a forum itself to the effects that N people have others. These ladies have been beaten down and they think that they have to change themselves. What a shame for them to have to feel this way.
Have you guys seen the show? Anyone else seen so many N's in one place? Do you guys think carving yourself up is a solution? What do you think these ladies will do to themselves when all the N's attack them? (and you know they will) I don't feel very easy about these ladies' futures. I feel that they are on a road to bitter futures unless they can learn to deal with the Ns.
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Hiya mrtraced, I like talking about tv shows but I see very little US tv here. Is carving yourself up an option? No way! I think about my N mother every day, far too much, but I communicate with her very little and haven’t seen her since October last year. The less contact I have with her, the better.
I love HBO’s Six Feet Under. Do you see that? There’s a text-book N-mom in it. Just been reading again and maybe I’ve got ‘carved up’ wrong. You also said:
These ladies have been beaten down and they think that they have to change themselves.
Ah! Well, they do have to change themselves, because hell, the Ns are not ever going to change! But the ladies do not have to change to suit the N’s agenda – they have to change to recover and find what they’ve lost of themselves.
I heard a quote on the radio by WH Auden. I may have it slightly wrong but the essence is: “childhood is a trap and growing up is understanding the nature of the trap”.
Changing yourself is about healing the inner child and all that: becoming aware of your real vs. false self, how shame and guilt work, dealing with core issues and eventually….transforming (“it is a shift from living our life to get somewhere, to living our life as an expression of our being”).
Tough stuff. Basically becoming a centred, self-aware person on the road to spirituality. I guess some folks never consider how to do all this, they just do it. For the rest of us, there are books, therapy and other good people to help us – thank goodness.
See, if I don’t change myself, I’ll continue to allow other people to beat me up. The moment I realised my big ‘problem’ was in me and not outside me was my first awakening. And it happened about 3 years after I started thinking about what was wrong with my mother and me (mind you, I did it all my own, no books, no therapy, no idea of what I was doing other than thinking and ‘journaling’ as I now know it, so 3 years is probably too long).
I have to heal myself so that I can deal with Ns. Otherwise I’ll spend the rest of my life blaming my mother (and blaming just about everybody else too) and not taking responsibility for my own happiness. I would’ve ended up a bitter, angry old woman who still talked endlessly about how it’s all my mother’s fault. Can you believe that? It’s what made me take some frankly dangerous steps (like telling the truth to other family members) – I couldn’t stand the thought of ‘stuffing’ all that anger and letting it kill me. It’s tough! But there isn’t an alternative for me.
Maybe I answered your question? Sorry it was so long! P
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Portia,
This show is very unusual. These women hate their bodies because of what people have said about them. They are undergoing Face lifts, major nose jobs, lasik (so they won't have to wear glasses), tummy tucks, liposuction everywhere, brow lifts, eye lid lifts, breast augmentation, dermabrasion, teeth veneers, gum surgery, fat injected everywhere, you name it and they are probably getting it. I would say hundred of thousands of dollars worth of cosmetic surgery! Most of the surgery takes place in one sitting. They live seperated from their family for three months. They can never look in a mirror. They have to work out for those three months, they have to lose weight. The good thing is that they spend time with a therapist. It's a wild show.
The damage that N's do - can cost you a small fortune to try to repair or replace!
No, I haven't seen six feet under. The whole pretense grosses me out. I have an adversion to the whole mortuary thing. ; ) I need to check it out sometime though - It might not be as bad as I think.
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Oh! Are these real people? They're not actors? If so.....wow! No doubt we'll get the prog soon then! (We usually get everything that you do) Thanks...P
PS Yeah, Six feet under is great if you can ignore the gruesome bits. But then, the gruesome bits are very educational and help with coming to terms with the big D!
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Hello,
Yes, I've seen the swan. The whole show is kind of creepy. But you're right, one can be drawn to it, kind of like watching a fire burn a house.
What strikes me is the plastic surgeons. Those cocky, so-much-better-than-everyone-I-do-it-on-TV doctors are most certainly Ns.
Unfortunate that these poor women who have often been beaten down in life, end up in an intereaction surrounded by N doctors.
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Remember that book, Psycho-cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz or whatever the hell his name was. A plastic surgeon and later a positive thinking guru He said most of the people who came to him for nose jobs and boob jobs and stuff he'd try to talk them out of it, 'cause he'd try to get to the bottom of what was driving them to cosmetic surgery. He said when he got to the bottom of it (hahahaha imagining a much needed bum lift here) the women told him their husbands weren't happy with their boobs or nose or whatever, which was usually the reason they were there. He, the doctor would try to talk them out of it first, and tell them that the person who needed surgery was their husband. He'd recommend Brain surgery!!!! for the husband. He was right.
CG
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Portia,
You are so right about taking a look at yourself. It is so easy to blame others.
The problem that I have is I didn't understand why I got ill after spending time with my N family. Why I was a nervous wreck - cause I didn't know when the personal attacks or barbs would come. I didn't understand why I would rather not be around them. I didn't understand why I felt like I could bash my head into a wall from the frustration of having to deal with them. I always thought it was me. I thought something was wrong with me. I had people who said they loved me - but there was always something to teach me a lesson, to put me in my place, to get revenge for some infraction. I was beginning to question what love really was. I was beginning to think that it had to have strings attached. That it wasn't really what I wanted. I felt like if they were to die - I wouldn't even care. Then I realized that I just wanted some peace - as Mary J. Blige sings. NO MORE DRAMA!
I don't want to blame anyone. Hopefully in the future I can see more clearly. I do blame myself for being so clueless, so stubborn to identify the real problem. They are the way they are and are not willing to change. I can change for the better and I'm more than willing to change. I'm just angry right now at wasting so much time not figuring it out.
Now I have to deal with the consequences of wanting No More Drama. It is a lonely and weird place to be.
I want to be loved for the way I am - not for what someone else wants me to be.
I think that is what these women on the SWAN are missing. What are they going to do when the N's in their lives don't like the way they are - still?
I feel for them already.
Sorry for getting off on a tangent.
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Hi mrtraced.
Portia, I think you are one of the people who has realized the change has to come from within. And congratulations for taking that path. I like to think I am on that road but still at the beginning stages. No, I never had plastic surgery or desired to have it. I think my university education saved me in a way as it was there that I discovered my intellect (and not physical appearance) could flourish without my family's negative influence.
I think some women do "carve themselves up" in an effort to change themselves to be more appropriate-looking to an N, perhaps. Or maybe it is just the endless msgs women get from the media which, in many ways, can be used as a medium to highlight one's already existant Nism. Based on what I know, the N is unhappy with him/herself so plastic surgery is an effort to present a more perfect appearance.
mrtraced, I can see how you see the mother on the show as an N - no empathy or concern with her daughter's intentions. I wonder what the program would have been like if the daughter had suggested that the mother get "carved up" :?:
Here is a reversal: my mother had plastic surgery when I was 12. She pulled the car over on the highway one summer and looked at me with a perverse grin (she still has that grin so it is easy to remember.) Why? I wondered. Then, she took a bunch of medical papers out of her purse and put them in my lap. She explained that she was going to have plastic surgery and just continued smiling. I felt like she needed me to say something and I recall not knowing what she needed me to say but I do remember looking down at the waves crashing against the rocks before she suddenly pulled over. But I did feel like she wanted me to say something. I can't recall if I said anything. I couldn't support her at the time because I couldn't understand why she would want to have plastic surgery. It just seemed another episode of her talking about herself which I was already pretty used to. But the indirect effect may have helped me to accept myself just the way I am as I get older now and deal with aging process.
Last year, she told me about these *botox* parties they have in her neighborhood. Apparently, she can get her botox jobs at a discount. She was really happy about that. I told her, "great, you`re happy."
Oh well...
~Dawning.
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Ah mrtraced. I’ve been clueless for 42 years. Give up blaming yourself too, get angry with yourself maybe but then start to feel better, knowing yourself a bit better – I’m just starting!
Is it No More Drama or perhaps no more drama of the wrong kind, the kind that hurts and doesn’t feel good? Drama can feel good I think! Like a thunderstorm? Calm follows? The drama/strength of really connecting with another person?
It doesn’t have to lonely: be here, at least?
I want to be loved for the way I am - not for what someone else wants me to be.
Three cheers! Exactly!
Those women? I don’t know. Maybe they’ll wake up too, maybe they won’t. But you don’t want to be around them if they don’t wake up – they’ll just flip out or become very bitter and twisted. And no-one can help them wake up! Only they can do it for themselves and that’s very difficult to deal with, if you have a natural instinct to help people. Otherwise you get caught in their internal cross-fire, if you see what I mean. Anyway, there you go, just my opinion.
Oh, you said “It is a lonely and weird place to be.” How so, weird?
And all tangents are allowed! No apologies needed.
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mrtraced, you must have posted this as I was replying.
as Mary J. Blige sings. NO MORE DRAMA!
Yeah-ya. I love that album and every single song on it. Thanks for mentioning it. :D
Now I have to deal with the consequences of wanting No More Drama. It is a lonely and weird place to be.
Me too, mrtraced. I think I know what you mean when you use the word "consequences" and I sure know what you mean about lonely and weird. But, somehow, someway, I visualize that *consequences* will be replaced by empowerment. Maybe it is just hard now cause the realizations are coming out like...hmmm....gangbusters. Do you feel exhausted during the day sometimes? I sure do.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, there are people in this group who, by sharing their experiences and thoughts/reflections, etc. have helped me - for one thing - to dig out all my self-help books and focus on them more deeply. Boy, it takes alot of work but it is work so worth doing.
Please don't be too hard on yourself.
Hugs,
Dawning
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Dawning, I posted and didn't see you up there. Hey, I only 'got' this last October, that it was 'me' that needed to change. So I still revert to: how did I get here? in my mind - and have to drag up all the mother stuff and re-examine it to make sure I'm right...it's a circular process, so the books say. 'Healing the child within' can't recommend it too much.
Then, she took a bunch of medical papers out of her purse and put them in my lap. She explained that she was going to have plastic surgery and just continued smiling. I felt like she needed me to say something
Oh I can see mine doing exactly that! Can I interpret? "Aren't I wonderful darling, aren't you proud of me? Isn't this brave of me? Won't you be so pleased to have a younger-looking mother? Shower me with praise right now!" - coz she must have been feeling a bit down on the ego-feed to even consider plastic surgery. It's the smiling that gets me. They just keep smiling that stupid smile all the time, like their smile will make the world a wonderful place all on it's own. And I guess it does, to them!! I've started spotting The Smile on tv now....and you can see it, if you look. I'd carry on twirling instead of watching tv if I was you, it sounds much more fun. (I liked that image by the way.) P
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previous 2 Guest posts from me, managed to kick myself out...time I gave it a rest! P
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aha! yes! i saw the show last night and i thought the same thing!! sounds like something my mother would do. i know you're about to have surgery, dear, and you're scared to death, but let's talk about ME. so strange that you posted this...i was going to do the same! did you notice that she had that whole fear of abandonment thing with her husband? i hate him because he cheated on me, but i hope he doesn't leave me? ick. felt sorry for her. hope she dumps his ass. sheesh...i'm taking it a bit personally aren't i? i guess i just related to her.
avery
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P, (Portia?) I have Healing the Child Within and that was just the book I was imagining pulling out again as I wrote my reply. :D
Can I interpret?
Isn't this brave of me?
Thanks for getting me going here. My interpretation: "Isn't this brave of me? It is something I have thought alot about and I need your approval to go ahead and do it. If you say no, then I won't but I will be very disappointed in you because I need your approval."
She got the figure she wanted. She lost the (married) man she wanted to please. Still now, I feel bad that she went through all of that for someone like him - who brought her home from the hospital and insisted that I give her lots of TLC because she was still under anasthesia. I was playing Barbie's with a friend (who, later, proudly proclaimed to me in front of my friends....."at least my mom doesn't need to get plastic surgery so she can go out and get men." ) Boy, was I embarassed at the time.
Thanks for letting me share this. Anyway, she was into that botox thing last year so maybe she is just one of those people who likes to have that kind of thing done. I am not. Remnants of unhealthy boundaries come up now. Another book: Boundaries:Where You End And I Begin (Anne Katherine.)
Ah....
~Dawning
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Can’t keep away today.
Dawning you said:
Portia, I think you are one of the people who has realized the change has to come from within. And congratulations for taking that path. I like to think I am on that road but still at the beginning stages.
I’m cringing a bit! Please don’t congratulate me yet – I’m at the beginning too. I was forced to confront it. I got to a breaking point last year of ‘it’s all my mother’ and I wanted to ‘fix her’. I actually had pages printed off about sexual addiction to send her!!!! Then I talked to my uncle (I wasn’t quite that honest about my theories) who said basically, leave her alone, she’s tough, she’s happy, having a great time and how are you? He’s in denial about her seriously weird life (and I guess his too) but he threw it back to me, not unkindly and not intentionally.
But I sat and did the Big Cry and realised it was all in my head, no-one else’s and I had to get me better. I didn’t know about narcissism or any other disorders really, but I found this board by chance and then became an Amazon best customer. Understanding mother has helped me detach even more, but it’s not easy. But there’s no way I’m trying to ‘fix her’ any more. I have to get me better and find out what to do with my life. I’m not working, I want to move away (emigrate?! Maybe) but I have another half and he’s part of my picture too. And I know I have to deal with my stuff kind of before I can decide, because my previous decisions have been based on – all the past. I’m stuck here until I can move to what I really want. I guess I want to circle back now to how I’ve made decisions, what I really want and how to do the things I’ll love (esp.re. work). That may include re-visiting mother again, but only to get to me, not to get to her.
I’ve said this above because I’ve banged on a bit recently about this whole topic and am at risk of becoming the Board Bore about it! So, enough, I’m no more than a beginner and if you can point me in any directions, please do. It’s easy to see other people’s paths but my own is definitely in fog – ain’t that the way?
I need your approval to go ahead and do it. If you say no, then I won't but I will be very disappointed in you because I need your approval
Would she have not done it if you’d have said no? Did she ever not do something because you said no? I’m interested. Mine would pretend to listen but take no notice of what I said.
insisted that I give her lots of TLC
oh so that was your job, not his?! Oh really. Yeah boundaries abounding. Is that a good book re parents? P
And didn’t you have a nice friend?! :roll:
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mrtraced,
I haven't seen The Swan but I think it's disturbing to see women going to such extremes to please critical, narcissistic people. It's tragic. They can't understand that it's their internal world that needs some therapeutic surgery, and not their appearance.
bunny
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Thanks again guys (gals) - sorry I'm from the Midwest.
Re: Lonely and weird. It's a bit lonely because before I posted on this board - hardly anybody could relate to what I was going through or understand why I just didn't go kiss and make up with my family. Let by- gones be by-gones. It's hard to tell people "Oh my psychiatrist told me to stay away from them!" Then you get off on the "You went to a psychiatrist?""Why, Are you crazy?"
No stupid I just went two times and he told me I was fine, but the N's in my life were rage-a- holics and had some very deep issues just by reading a few little emails they sent to me!
It's weird because I don't know how to feel about all this. A few years ago everything was hunky-dorey because I in ignorance is bliss - thought it really was. I didn't see the seething coming to the surface.
Then all of a sudden one day, I opened a can of - your wife is sh** your in-laws can go to hell, you're mean and stupid - this is a direct quote from my dad's email - "I've wondered through the years when you were conceived if part of your brain didn't run down my leg, and just left you stupid, and that's the reason you continue to do the things you do to your family. It's not!!! Your just plain MEAN TO THE BONE, and that's not the way you were raised, but neither was Samson. " (What did I do to the family - I don't even know to this day - He's a minister and I love the Biblical comparisions - not - I suppose that is a barb against my wife - a Deliliah?? - What did my wife do to you? - Nothing that I could think of - neither can she.)
He also stated "However your biggest problem right now is ME. C"**** is my wife, and was before you came along. If I EVER hear of you insulting her again, or your wife doing it, or your children doing it I'm coming after YOU, so you better pass the word around. You've drove me to this point, and I personally don't give a rip any more WHAT you think of me. I love you, but enough is enough. I'll hurt you."
My youngest daughter 7 years old at the time, who is very strong and we salute her now especially - had called my mother a Witch because my mom was in actuality probably acting like one! My daughter calls it like she sees it! Then they got it their heads that we were teaching our kids to talk bad about them. My Mother brought it up last time I suffered through talking to her.- We have never taught our kids to be disrespectful -
See I'm trying to defend myself again. They don't care and they won't listen to my side and they believe what they want to believe. And this whole situation is just WEIRD to me. I'm majorly perplexed at all this and where it has gone and the threats and the having to keep my kids away from the hostility - all over a lot of weird thinking on their part. It's just weird, weird, weird. Who would of guessed my parents would have fallen off the deep end so quickly. I had no idea they were so insane! I feel I must have been living in La La Land and boy did this wake me up. Now what is weird too is that my brother and his wife got a divorce around this time and they were treated badly by her and her parents. - why this rage got transferred it to us is beyond my comprehension. Should I feel sorry for them? If they didn't mean it - then why haven't they contacted me in a couple of years or tried to make amends - why do I have to go to them? I did something wrong? I don't think so. Weird weird weird. I've heard my father can't use his arms anymore (via grandma) due to liver damage caused by cholestorol medicine. It's weird weird weird that I'm talking about him dying and what's going to happen to my crazy mother. I have no feelings. Weird so Weird. I always thought I was very empathetic and sympathetic to a fault. But why don't I give a sh**? Weird.
(okay enough about that - GEEZ - )
Okay, I'm venting again. When you guys get sick of this let me know. I'm starting to irrate myself! ; )
Yeah I agree that Beth on the SWAN should probably kick that loser of a so called husband to the curb. But she's empowered now and says she loves herself and she can let go of the resentment and love him too. BUT If I were her - ONE MORE TIME BUSTER AND (a quote from my WIFE - a Legal assistant) I'LL TAKE YOU FOR EVERY DIME YOU HAVE AND YOU WON'T HAVE A POT TO PEE IN WHEN I GET THROUGH WITH YOU! ( Needless to say my wife keeps me in check ; )
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Bunny,
Exactly!
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mrtraced,
Unfortunately, your parents appear to be mentally ill. I don't know if this was always the case, but it is now. Your father sounds seriously disturbed. So you can feel sorry for him. But keep your distance. He is untreated and dangerous. The loss of your family and your dream of a family is also tragic. The upside is that you're safe and keeping your kids safe.
bunny
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Wow, what a thread! Mind if I join?
Are UK folks familiar with the Texas ex-beauty queen dentist who ran her SUV over her dentist husband while he was talking to his mistress in the hotel garage of where the two dentists were married on Valentine's Day? :shock: :shock: :shock: It came out in the trial that hubby was cheating and wifey wanted to know what she had to do to keep him. So he wrote a list on a cocktail napkin that included all kinds of plastic surgery. ick ick ick. The poor teenage daughter was in the wife's car when mom ran over dad. Check it out on Court TV.
Mrtraced, that email from your dad sounds like a case of your mom saying "sic 'em, boy!" when she was offended by your daughter's comment. They sound scarier than a pair of pitbulls. I, too, have taken refuge in a cocoon of idealism and obliviousness. As long as I was "good/obedient/subservient" then no worries. But now that we're older and wiser :cry: we can't shut our eyes anymore. Once we are adults we want to be treated like adults. And once the grandkids come along the stakes are higher. I really relate to your story in many ways. I know it's painful, but you are on the way. Rage away. You'll be feeling better soon.
Take care, Seeker
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Hi everyone,
I watched The Swan last night too...but felt kinda weird watching it too...like I'm supporting something I don't believe in.
The part of the show I like the best is when they show the "before" pictures. Thats what normal women look like. I like them better before they're all "perfect." I like them better looking real because their bodies reflect their personalities, not some "ideal" image of what a woman is supposed to look like. It also bothers me that its not structured so that the woman comes to the doctor asking for a particular procedure...it bothers me that they are being submissive to the will of the "program" and the "professionals" about what is best for them.
I like the idea of people getting help...looking the best they can and getting therapy for their "issues." The usual things...a hair cut, clothes that suit their body type, diet and exercise seem like expressions of a healthy self-esteem. But I think all the cosmetic surgery is ridiculous. They even cut up a woman's calves/ankles. What in the world is wrong with having "thick" ankles? And what will happen to these women when they get old...will that affect their self-worth?
It makes me sad that our society is so focused on outward appearances.
Ishana
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P, I'm going to reply to your questions later tonight. Just a bit of time now but wanted to ask why is this show called The Swan? Is it only about woman having plastic surgery? Also, gather that it is *reality* tv. scary.
~Dawning
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Thanks Seeker, You are always encouraging. I appreciate it more than you know.
Ishana, You brought up a point that I hadn't thought about. These women are being submissive to these egomaniacs. Who are these doctors to define beauty? They did a nose job on one lady that's nose looked just fine to me. Some of their so-called improvements like fake breasts are ludicrous for sure.
Dawning - I guess the show is called the Swan because of the story of the ugly duckling who turned into a beautiful swan.
What this show misses about the story, is that the Swan was a "swan" to begin with. She survived the toxicity of her "family" to grow up and become a beautiful Swan despite them.
The swan was just hanging around a bunch of "N" toxic ducks!
The story isn't about taking an ugly duck and carving her up until she looked like the N ducks' IDEAL of a perfect duck, Which is the real premise of this (as you said) *reality* show.
Hey, we could use this analogy on ourselves. Everyone here is a swan learning to be a swan, and not a nasty self possessed duck trying to fit into a mold we don't belong in.
Dawning, re: Is it only about woman having plastic surgery? No, they also get "therapy" and they have to lose weight, and exercise.
They took 16 women. 2 each week. Had them prostitute their bodies - in other words Carved 'em up according to what the doctors felt they needed done - to comform to the doctors own sense of asthetics. The two get judged on how successful the doctors work took, also how well the 2 behaved and how much they adhered to the program. They pick a winner and send the other back home into the family that made them so miserable to begin with.
They will then take the 8 winners and I'm not clear yet, but have some sort of beauty contest and the winner will take home cash and prizes?
As Ishana said "what will happen to these women when they get old...will that affect their self-worth?" Really, what is their self-worth based upon? A house of cards for sure. I would like to add - what happens when the surgery needs a touch up? We are talking major bucks here. Will they be able to afford it - how will they feel if they become ugly again or have an aspect of the surgery that doesn't look quite right after time has passed?
Go to http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/ and see the effects of aging on plastic surgery and some people that don't know how to stop the carving.
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What this show misses about the story, is that the Swan was a "swan" to begin with. She survived the toxicity of her "family" to grow up and become a beautiful Swan despite them.
The swan was just hanging around a bunch of "N" toxic ducks!
Yeah, that is what was circling around in my mind too. Pretty ironic title, eh?
Hey, we could use this analogy on ourselves. Everyone here is a swan learning to be a swan
Amen to that!
:D Dawning
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Everyone here is a swan learning to be a swan, and not a nasty self possessed duck trying to fit into a mold we don't belong in.
Wow, mrtraced. What a beautiful (and dead-on) thing to say!!
They will then take the 8 winners and I'm not clear yet, but have some sort of beauty contest and the winner will take home cash and prizes?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!! When are these "reality" shows going to STOP!?!?! Beauty contest? As if they don't feel inadequate enough already?
Thanks for sharing your stuff about your family, by the way. And vent away. I can't get over the fact that your dad is a minister - who says all that crap. How does he treat the members of his congregation??!? Outrageous :evil: .
Wildflower
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Greetings All,
I have not seen "The Swan" nor reading your posts do I want to. I did see "White Narcissis" and cringed. I have dealt and am still dealing with Ns in my life as we will all have to do whether we like it or not. As my "N" mother said "you deal with what is" and she had a tough life I would not wish on my worst enemy. Thankfully I escaped it. One thing I found by accident I want to share because it brings peace and I found this on the Internet one day. I find it beautiful each time I read it.
THE RELAXED STATE OF INNER PEACE
A tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than from fears based on past experiences
Unmistakable ability to enjoy every moment.
Loss of interest in judging others.
Loss of interest in judging self.
Loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others.
Loss of interest in conflict.
Loss of ability to worry (a very serious symptom).
Frequent episodes of appreciation.
Contented feelings of connectedness with others and nature.
Frequent attacks of smiling
Increased tendency to let things happen rather than make them happen.
Increased susceptibility to the love extended by others as well as the uncontrollable urge to extend it.
Warning: If you are exposed to some of the above or if you have some of these traits, your Inner Peace may be so far advanced as to not be curable. If you are exposed to these symptoms, remain so at your own risk.
P.S. I hope this says something to all of you (us) trying to grow within ourselves. I know we can do it.
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Old native swaying: O watta gusiam.
I saw that episode too. Sickening - i thought the same thing when that girl was on the phone with her mom. Ugh. I think these shows also expose something in people who are looking for a "thing" to make them happy - they believe that physical appearance will somehow transform them into different people - like the "antidote" to their unhappiness. Saw one show recently (maybe the same one) where a wife was making it seem as if her "extreme makeover" would make her dheating husband "love her" at last. They are trying to fill a empty void in their chests - that no physical change or any other thing for that matter will ever fill. Even filling that void with "self" will never fill that void - as modern theology would have it.
Another thing that we dont discuss too much out here that these shows feed - is the other side of narcissism - the physical narcissist (the correct term please?). My mom's brother walked away from his childhood with an obsession with his body. he is 40, still constantly working out - a hairstylist bent on good looks, the perfect tan, and physical health, now married to someone just the same. These shows are like a playground for those types as well if they can get into the contests.
-Rob
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Oh that was me - Rob -
The native saying means: Oh what a goose I am.
maybe we can say: O wattas wan i ham