Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: towrite on August 09, 2007, 03:56:10 PM
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Ami - you asked about my mother treating my brothers normally and being an N only to me. I cannot explain it. I was the first born, so maybe I got the brunt of her need to live through someone else. Her whole being rested on her reputation and appearance in the community, which was mainly composed of women - I was a female, so maybe that was part of it. I was her father's favorite; she hated her father, so maybe that was part of it.
To tell the truth - and I am tearing up as I write this - I spent my entire childhood watching her attitude change from me to my brothers and deep down decided it was me - I was somehow bad, flawed, to blame - and I spent all my formative years wandering in a haze of confusion about what was so bad about me, what did I do wrong.
My middle brother committed suicide only a few years ago; my youngest brother has taken on an attitude of "you're beneath me" and has aligned himself with mother. He almost sneers at me. I raised him - more tears - I adored him; mother was never home, he slept in my room, I was the one (at 9 y.o.) who got up for his 4 am feeding, changed him and put him in the bed with me til time to wake up. I taught him to walk. I put a roof over his head and food in his mouth when he got divorced b/c he couldn't afford to rent a place or buy groceries due to alimony and child support.
I have no idea what the root is -- but I will tell you my feeling that it was me, my badness, my inherent flawedness has deep roots and they can grab my heart and spirit and grab til they almost suck the life out of me.
I've never heard of it either.
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I am so sorry, ToWrite.
That's devastatingly painful about your brother.
Hopefully he still has more growing up he'll do.
I wonder if he feels shame at having been dependent on you.
That can make people lash out...at those they love the most.
One day I hope he'll be able to see you as a hurt daughter and extrordinarily brave sister.
love, and comfort...
Hops
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Dear towrite
I can see that it was NOT you who was the problem when it is you or Lupita or someone else,but when it is ME, it feels like it is my fault.
I am dealing with the same deep down beliefs. I am "stuck" here. I am going to start a thread on it.
Your mother probably 'hated " you b/c you were a girl and you reminded her of herself. The N's project ALL the bad that they feel inside on to us--- Lucky us.So, she could do it easier b/c you were female.
I can "hear" who you are from your posts. I can tell that it was HER fault. I wish that it was so easy for us to believe that . I wish that there was a pill somewhere that we could take and see reality. Reality is that it had nothing to do with us, at all. It was ALL them.
Love Ami
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Ya know, Ami - I never felt anything - it took me many years to even be aware that I had any reaction. I never even knew I felt it was ME til I got a really good therapist. She's not around anymore, and I miss her. I lived til I was 28 in a state of shock, not feeling anything, including sexual feelings. Nada.
Like you, when it's someone else, I can see clearly. When it's me, it's like that old non-feeling comes back over me.
If my mother projected all her bad feelings onto me, why would she punish me for them?
Hops - I hope it's the living brother you hope has some gowing up to do :) The one who's dead never grew up.
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One other thing -
My middle brother (the one who's dead now) and I were taking naps, while mother did the same. He woke up and began making noise. I kept sleeping. The next thing I knew she ripped the covers off me and began beating my backside like a crazed woman. I jumped up and asked her why. I said I was sleeping and it was my brother (who slept in the same room) who was making the noise. She said she knew that, but I was the oldest, and, therefore, it was my responsibility, so she was whipping me.
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towrite,
I'm sorry you feel so bad over this. It sounds so familiar to me.
As to this bit:
"If my mother projected all her bad feelings onto me, why would she punish me for them?"
I think that's because although she projected them, she did it because she couldn't stand those feelings in herself, so the only way to deal with them as far as she was concerned was to 'offload' them onto you, because you could be punished - she had control over you. She had to appear perect, so any 'negative' attributes had to be dumped elsewhere. It's often the female children for N mothers, and male children for N fathers, because they can identify better with a child of the same sex as themselves.
I can also identify with what you call the 'non-feelings'. A counsellor once said to me that I often looked 'blank', expressionless. My face is hardly lined, in my mid-forties, because I don't show emotion - neither good nor bad, nothing.
The dreadful legacy of all this stuff is that you feel you were at fault, when you weren't.
Janet
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Oh towrite, I'm so sorry about both of your brothers, but what you write about the living one is so painfully sad.
I 'knew' it was me, also. I believed I was innately evil and repellent and I couldn't manage to be 'right.' The right way - the right person - right inside. A person who could inspire love and positive responses.
And I too saw them react differently to others, to my sister, my cousins. So it was me. And as far as they are concerned, it still is me.
But they can't keep me in the bubble and I'm not buying it anymore. =:-P
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Bravo, Iphi!
I'm not buying it anymore.
::clap clap clap::
Hops
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Hi towrite, you described the dynamic in my family exactly, however I had other sisters so I was in a position to see that my mother had a gender bias, and it wasn't just about me. Its just so awful thinking of you going through all those years alone, being singled out by your mother like that.I am so glad to hear that you can finally see that N mothers have issues with daughters now.
I think my mother's relationship with her sons is psycho- sexual and a sick. On the surface of things, my brothers, appeared to be spoiled, but there was an unspoken bargain they had to enter into in order to receive that favoritism. Their job was to make our mother feel sexually validated, which is something only a male can do for a woman. Mum is so desparate for adult male validation, that even a little boy-even her own son-will do. So even though my brothers grew up so arrogant that I can hardly bare to be around them, I still see them as being damaged by my mothers sick needs.
As for daughters, we are sexual competition. I think this is totally sick, because children are not `sexual competition' or `someone to make mother feel sexy'. They are only kids, and need a parent.
I remember about 5 years ago, I dropped in on my mother when I was in her town. My very good looking little brother was still living with her (in his thirties!).
We'd been driving a long way, and I mentioned that my shoulders hurt, and my little brother came up behind me, and started massaging my shoulders (I guess he's not all bad, lol). My mother's face went ashen, and she started to fume! Then she absolutely exploded and screamed to him` get away from her! get away, I'll do it).
Shortly after that she asked me to leave. Luckily, he finally moved out from her and now has a fiance. To this day she still says thins like `don't worry, he'll cheat on her and come back to me''.
I love my mother, but thats sick to me.
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Oh, Bella.
This is very sick!
You are reading it very clearly.
And you have broken out of the trance, I think.
Uggh. I hear you.
Hops
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Hello to each one on this thread,
I have experienced so much of what y'all speak of. Thankfully I've grown past most of the triggers that the gender bias (favoring males) that was fostered in my FOO and including the grandparents. For years the favoritism shown my brother (this was mostly done in verbal barbs aimed at me and my sister when our brother wasn't around) would trigger me. The next step for Nmom was to retell the story to my brother and others (always skewed) and my reaction (always skewed, though I certainly did react). In her version, I was played off as jealous of my brother, resenting him, not loving him, causing trouble in the family and on and on. My brother is a very nice man. I have never been jealous of him, resented him or any of the other things I was accused of where he is concerned. I only came out of denial and became cognizant of the lies seven years ago. My brother hasn't had to go to the pits the way I have. The good part of this short account is that I love my brother. I've never thought he did anything to foster, take advantage of, or promote the favoritism shown him. When it started, he was just a kid like me. He is a decent human.
My only caution here would be to say, look at your brothers knowing that when the favoritism began, they most probably very young children/toddlers. They have suffered a grevious violation of their own personhood by way of their Nparent. I feel blessed that my brother grew up and out and that being favored didn't turn him into a monster.
tt
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In hindsight, one of the saddest and frustrating things for me with my mother's man-bias,
which showed in many ways, was that it is internalized sexism. Which to me is as destructive
to humanity as racism.
I would rejoice if my D were able to grow up in a world without it. But an Nmother can't
celebrate a girl's or woman's liberation from the most pernicious, repressive traditions.
Feminist and feminine forever,
Hops
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Janet,
Excellent description of projection. N's put their bad feelings about the "real them" onto other people. In my case, Kay turned me into "little Kay" and became her non-present mother toward me...this is why she ignored me, made fun of me, tormented me. I because little Kay so that big Kay could finally feel IN CONTROL, choosing whom to bestow affection and attention on, and whom to scapegoat and punish.
Bella (your name means beautiful; did you know that?)
Your "mother" was very SICK in exploiting children, but I want you to hear my heart when I say this...YOU are NOT her, not joined to her, not an extention of her either. You are an individual in your own right. God created you unique and special and He has a reason why you were put on this planet. He loves you and wants you to know that, according to His Bible.
As far as the male/female stuff, Kay CLEARLY favored the son she gave birth to with her 2nd husband, over the daughter she gave birth to with her first husband. Kay resented her ex h because he was abusive to her, so the daughter from that union, was scheduled for a life time of torment. I immediately connected with this daughter and saw how the son was seen as the PRINCE and the daughter as the waif...when Kay saw me warming up to the daughter, then I was fit for punishment too.
Kay liked having even other people's children over...usually GIRLS, so she could buy them stuff, do their nails, makeup, clone them into duplicate little Kays and then alternately train them to do her bidding and punish them if they rebelled, which, being that Kay was a "bait n switch" specialist, it always appeared the girls/women were rebelling against her. No-win situation for anyone.
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Thankyou so much for saying that, Reallyme. I didn't realise that I needed to hear that I am not like my mother, until I heard you say it. It really helped:) You are such a love:)
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Hello to each one on this thread,
I have experienced so much of what y'all speak of. Thankfully I've grown past most of the triggers that the gender bias (favoring males) that was fostered in my FOO and including the grandparents. For years the favoritism shown my brother (this was mostly done in verbal barbs aimed at me and my sister when our brother wasn't around) would trigger me. The next step for Nmom was to retell the story to my brother and others (always skewed) and my reaction (always skewed, though I certainly did react). In her version, I was played off as jealous of my brother, resenting him, not loving him, causing trouble in the family and on and on. My brother is a very nice man. I have never been jealous of him, resented him or any of the other things I was accused of where he is concerned. I only came out of denial and became cognizant of the lies seven years ago. My brother hasn't had to go to the pits the way I have. The good part of this short account is that I love my brother. I've never thought he did anything to foster, take advantage of, or promote the favoritism shown him. When it started, he was just a kid like me. He is a decent human.
My only caution here would be to say, look at your brothers knowing that when the favoritism began, they most probably very young children/toddlers. They have suffered a grevious violation of their own personhood by way of their Nparent. I feel blessed that my brother grew up and out and that being favored didn't turn him into a monster.
tt
Thankyou Teartracks; That was wonderful advice.
I am so happy for you knowing you have a brother that you like. And isn't it amazing that, in spite of the way he was treated, you can call him a `very nice man'. He sounds like a very special person, and so are you for loving him instead of resenting him.
I love my brothers; I understand my brothers, but I do resent all the financial help they've been given for being male, and I have so little time for their sexist, arrogant behaviour. I hope that my brothers learn their lessons, because it harms their employment prospects, their relationship with family members, and it sabotages their chances at finding love.
I remember the time when my little brother was 29, and he decided that a lot of his long-term partners close female friends were `hot'. So he broke up with her for a` spell', slept with all her friends, and he was absolutely crushed and mortified that she didn't want him back after that. The thing is, he really wanted her back, and it broke his heart when she went on to marry another man. I think he deserved what he got, but I also see that his sense of grandiosity and his expectations were his mother's doing.
X Bella
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Bella,
You certainly ARE NOT, NOT, NOT like your mother!!!
NOT!!
Did I say NOT?
None of us daughters of N mothers are like our mothers, unless we've been groomed as the Golden Child (and even that's not a good place to be).
As to male-bias, it reminds me of a strange thing that used to happen between my violent Nboyfirend and my NMum, when I was first 'paired up' with him by her and my Nsister. He used to buy me flowers, chocolates, etc., AND BUY MY NMUM THE SAME, AT THE SAME TIME. It was as if he was going out with twins. It really used to aggravate me. Of course, my NMum thought he was great - she got to have YET ANOTHER man at her feet (at the time, she had my henpecked Dad, and was having an affair with a married man - but, interestingly, she STILL said that the hated all men!).
Janet
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Thankyou SO much Janet,
That must have felt so weird, when your ex bought your Mother the same gifts as he bought you. N's are weirdos, lol.
My mother was always having affairs too, Janet. Hugs to you; i know it feels to have aMum like yours.
X Bella
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Oo. Janet.
My last Nxbf bought me the exact same Xmas gift he gave his daughter.
It positively gave me the creeps.
I thought it was something like: gift the woman. Oh, and the other one.
(Sort of like: feed the dog/s).
Yuuuggghhh. Bad memory.
Hops
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Hops,
Yes!! That's exactly how it felt. So insulting.
And he used to do the typical N trait of unsuitable gift-giving, too, like he'd buy me a tin-opener, and expect me to be pleased. :?
Janet
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Towrite, you said:
To tell the truth - and I am tearing up as I write this - I spent my entire childhood watching her attitude change from me to my brothers and deep down decided it was me - I was somehow bad, flawed, to blame - and I spent all my formative years wandering in a haze of confusion about what was so bad about me, what did I do wrong.
This is me – I got it from both parents and it was reinforced by my brother. I still feel the hurt at being thrown to the wolves while my brother and sister were catered to on so many levels. In some ways it is getting better (thank god for this board) - but there is still a part of me that is resisting changing this belief - and I can't figure out why. It will come.
You also asked:
If my mother projected all her bad feelings onto me, why would she punish me for them?
My thought on this, she was never punishing you, she was punishing herself (you were never really a person to her – only a mirror – and she hated what she saw in that mirror, never you - only herself.) Now I write this, and think that is probably true for my family as well, but I suspect in some cases (like ours) there may be another layer - I think for some adults it is a power trip to abuse kids - gives them a sense of power and control. I have to think more on this.
I am sorry in advance for asking this, if it is too painful please ignore, is the brother who punched you and fired a gun at your head the one who committed suicide?
Also, (the following is said with so much sadness in my heart for you) I have to say that I am stunned at the level of abuse you have endured all of your life. Are you still associating with them on a regular basis? Frankly, your brother scares me. My brother did some pretty violent things too, and after one particularly violent act (not nearly as violent as what you had), I stayed as far away from him as I could and swore I would never be alone with him.
I am so sorry towrite, you have been through hell.
Peace
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One thing I can share regarding this sibling-type discussion...when I first hooked up with Kay, she had told me that her younger sister was always her mother's favorite. At this point, however, Kay had at last won her mother over, due to common beliefs.
Problem was, once I came into the picture, Kay's mother "took" to me like I was a daughter, and Kay became enraged and jealous and warned me not to get too close to her mother, cause Kay didn't want her mother to reject me. (it was KAY who was feeling insecure about me having a relationship with her mother) When I told her she had nothing to fear about me stealing "mom" from her, she replied with "oh don't even THINK like that. it would NEVER happen. Me and Mom are tight!"
Weird thing is, when I did get to know her mother, I found out that I knew things from Kay that her mother had no clue about....things began not lining up very quickly.
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Hey towrite
Just checking in to see how you are doing.
Peace
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I'm doing OK. thanks for asking. It is a strange feeling for me to find a place where I can speak about my horrific childhood and not have people walk away or avoid me. As I have said before, my family was socially prominent and none of their associates or their children (my age) ever entertained any notion about what happened behind closed doors.
My NM is the peak of WASP-ism - for whoever asked. Can't remember who, sorry to say. My NF was brutal, violent, selfish, and abusive. He definitely added to the mix, but his controbution was not the defining factor. He simply supported my NM's irrational decisions, behaviors, and verbal insults.
Thanks everyone.
towrite.
BTW - I am terrified of becoming that "chilly intellectual N" that someone described.