Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on August 09, 2007, 05:04:46 PM
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I always give opinions, but never give dioanoses.
My mother has never been in jail. She has never broken the low. She has never stold money from anybody, only from me, she always follows the rules wherever she goes. She pays taxes, she works three jobs 12 hours a day to be able to make an equivalent of 300 dollars. She always obeyed her parents.
She has an outstanding behavior in school all her life. She never fights with any body. Just me.
It is amazing how people just by reading this board for a few months dare to give diagnosis.
I went to medical school in my country, not licensed here, that is why I am teaching in high school I am certified teacher.
But I was a complete doctor in my country, and I have passed all the boards in USA but not get a license because to get a lincense you have to be admited in a program in a hospital, and due to my age, nobody wanted me.
I have never given diagnosis to anybody. I do not know what degrees have people here, but I understand that many are supported by their husbands and do not even make a single penny.
I think I need a brake because I am going to explode.
My mother is N, idiot, selfish b@@@tch but not a sociopath.
Please, read the following article.
http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html
Please forgive me if I take a brake for a couple of weeks.
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I beg you for your forgiveness. I was extremely mad. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Please forgive me.
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I am so-o sorry, Lup. Please forgive me.
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Lup - I was reacting your your mother's extreme cruelty to you. It was only my opinion. Sorry.
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Now I understand why people give vague statements. They do not specify. I asked direct questions to Hopalong, she never answered them She asnweres in a wonderfuly nice way, helpful way but never answer specifics.
Now I understand. It hurst when you open your heart and information is misunderstood.
I am sorry for being mad, I am very sorry. I do not understand why I am mad.
My little kid is mad. The adult is askign me to ignore ignoratn people, but I am sad, so sad so sad.
I am very very sorry.
Please, nobody PM. I hate PM.
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Towrite, I am very sorry, you forgive me, please. I am very sorry. I exploded, I do not know why. Please, forgive me Towrite, I love you, please, I love you and please forgive me.
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Sociopath writes bad checks, my mother does not owe money to anybody. She works like a beast. She hates me.
Sociopath burn animals. My mother would be sad to hurt a dog.
Sociopath gables, my mother has never been to a casino in her life.
Sociopath are homeless, my mother has properties
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Dear Lupita,
You are angry. You are in shock. You are facing deep, deep pain .Lupita, what you are going through is part of the healing. Lupita, it is so, so, so hard to face these things. I am still woozy and sick. It is so, so hard. I can see why people never face these things.Many people take drugs so as not to face what you are facing.
Lupita, if you take this journey to healing, it will involve this type of despair and panic that you are having. It is part of it.
The only other choice is not to heal and then your life (or mine) does not work... I will help in any way that I can I think that what happened is simply that you started healing and panicked . No one is mad at you. It is O.K.No one's opinion really matters but yours, dear. You are O.K. You are just panicking b/c you are healing Love Ami
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Honey, darling Lup - I know it's only your own emotional roller coaster. It's a hard thing to face, to grasp, the truth about your mother. Children never believe the trusted adult in their life can have a bad side. Perhaps she was very jealous of you - you are smart, funny, capable, and hard-working. A lot for her to be jealous of.
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Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)
1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.
D. Repeated assaults on others.
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.
2. At least eighteen years in age.
3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.
4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.
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Sociopath writes bad checks, my mother does not owe money to anybody. She works like a beast. She hates me.
Sociopath burn animals. My mother would be sad to hurt a dog.
Sociopath gables, my mother has never been to a casino in her life.
Sociopath are homeless, my mother has properties
My sociopath doesn't have a criminal record, though he's a criminal.
He works like 5 regular men.
He's never been homeless and is a property owner as well.
He doesn't gamble in any traditional sense of the word but..... he engages in risks that are definately gambling.... but with his life and his family's lives.
I didn't give him this lable, our psychotherapist did: /
Sociopaths can't be cubby holed any easier than N's, IMO...and the borders blurr at every edge as far as I can see.
Sorry you're upset Lupe.
I think that anger needs to come out and show itself.
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Lup - if you want to get technical and correct about it, here's what a sociopath does:
"Antisocial Personality Disorder"
1. disregard for and violation of the rights of others
2. decitfulness, lying ... conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. implusivity
4. irritability, aggressiveness, e.g. physical fights or assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility
7. lack of remorse
from the "DSM-IV"
Lup - this is not stuff made up from thin air. You are going through a very hard phase. Please be gentle with yourself. I am not attacking you. I care about you.
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It makes me sad when I give an adviise and the advise is never aknowldege. I am not saying to do what I say. Just to aknowledge that I have an advise, good or bad. But my advises are many times ignored. Of course not by everybody. There are some people that are always grateful. But it is sad when that happenes because it seems like I am talking to my family. The same.
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Dear Lupita,
I have to say that facing this is almost unbearable. I am "Miss Natural', But I really want to go on some type of a medication b/c I hurt SOOOOOO badly.
I am not going to do it b/c I believe that the pain is showing me what I need to see,but it is one of the worst things i have ever been through. Love Ami
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My mother is an N, not a sociopath.
If we are going to DX here I would DX several as N in thsi same board. I would never do that of course.
But when I see people who do not even work and make anice life, and come here and complain how bad life is, it makes me very disappointed.
I do not like women who do not know how to work, make money, and come here and complain.
IN THIS WORLD, EVERYBODY SHOULS WORK.
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Dear Lupita,
What do you mean? Ami
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Hi Lup...
I missed the whole thing about your mom, I think, but I think I can guess why you're mad?
You suggested a course of treatment for otistis and felt laughed at.
You have been trying to survive a job in which you are heckled and disrespected by pampered entitled prep-school students and condescended to by spineless and chauvinistic administrators.
Women you socialize with misunderstand your loneliness and act like spoiled cheerleaders at a Who's Popular party.
You're very lonely.
Nobody here knew you were a doctor...but that's partly because you've been too proud to mention it.
When you go dancing your passionate playful nature comes out and you feel joy. But you haven't been feeling much the rest of the time.
You have a terrible emotional struggle about your mother but she is still your bond to your family and culture, so when somebody labeled her too readily, that triggered your anger.
Are some of these right?
I'm sorry you're upset, honey. Don't be afraid of abandonment. I know people stretch and learn and forgive here.
love
Hops
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Lup,
You are very very angry and that is ok. It's only opinions that people are discussing. Your anger if fine we have all done that.
I don't think there is anyone on here who could say that they always had a nice life though.
We are not all professionals in the Medical field on here and then some of us are. Like you. But we all share the same pain, some less, some more, some different.
It's ok to be Pissed Lup.
Sorry you got triggered.
And you go Dr. Lup!!
Love
Deb
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I am sorry. :oops:
Even ianybody here thinks my mother is a sociopath, it does not matter. What you think, it does not matter. What others think, it odes not matter.
Only matters what I think. Like judge Judy says. "It is my opinion what counts"
wow, I was a pressure cooker, and did not know it.
Thanks to you guys, because I did not know how mad I can get, my heart was paunding at its maximum.
Wow, I thought I was being disrespected. Who cares if somebody disrespect me? It does not matter.
So what!!!! So what!!!! That does not make any change in my life.
I think many of you are real Ns. That does not matter.
It does not make any change in your lives. So what, so what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It does not matter.
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This worked almost like a 3D group therapy. Wow, this works. Thank you for not getting mad at my madness. Thank you Towrite for understanding that I was not mad at you. You just gave your opinion.
I am sorry I was mad. I thank you very much for calming me down. You were very nice.
I wish I had people like that close to me.
This was a very interesting learning experience.
I need to control my self. I cannot let anything or any comment to put me on fire. That is not correct, that is exactly what my students do to me. They know how to push my bottons. I have to control that.
I will maditate on this lesson. This is the kind of behavior that has hurt me forever.
At least I was with kind people. If this was at work, and believe me, it could happen, I would be in trouble.
Thank you. I will work on this aspect.
Thank you again.
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By the way. I hate when men call me hon, it makes me feel retarded. not that much when woman do. I feel like a littel girl when I am called hon. Sweety. I know I am behaving like a little girl at this particular moment. I thank you for allowing for this to happen. I want to be pampered, but when I am pampered I feel offended and retarded. Thank you for allowing me to throw a temper tamtrum or however it is spelled. Thank you.
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Dear Lupita
I am glad that you see it this way. I think that when you got angry that it was GREAT. I think that anger is a step away from being a victim ( and her victim).
I think that the board provides us a place where we can heal. We can work through the patterns that are holding us captive Love Ami
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Sorry, Lup.
"Honey" is just affection...from me anyway.
No condescension intended!
Hops
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Just a note on how everyone is so different. I LOVE to be called ALL names of endearment. It feels really nurturing to me. I just soak it in Love Ami
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sociopathy is linked to delinquency. My mother does not even have a trafic ticket. In all her life.
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Also, to be able to diagnose sociopathy, you have to be able to prove a conduct disorder before 18 YO.
My mother was an obedient child, excellent grades, one of the most talented pianists in her town at her time.
Conduct disorder is linked to vandalism. My mother has never been arrested, endited, convicted, of anything. Zero problems with the low. She is such a good citizen that the US of S gave her a permanet visa to be able to visit the US for the rest of her life.
A sociopath generally has a past that does not allow to get entrance to US of A. The US give a very deep investigation before giving a visa to visit the US.
It is very frivolus to labe persons of any kind of lables. The same way the lable children in schools which damage them for the rest of their lives and that follows then for the rest of their lives.
We might consider the possibility to say, IMO your M mgith have traits of such and such.
Never to say Your mother is such and such.
Just an opinion.
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You're right Lupita,
None of us here is qualified to diagnose another, or another's mother or any other extended family. A therapist or psychiatrist, usually the latter will diagnose.
My therapist does not like labels.
We can compare ourselves to one another in feelings and thoughts. I saw one today that was "me":
To this day, my brother has his anger so deeply buried that his surface is extremely passive, sometimes like there's no life in him. He's terrified of his own or anyone's anger. All his life's energy, his spirit, is buried deeply with his anger.
--from 'towrite's' anger/money post.(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)
Yes, sociopathy begins in earlier years with setting fires, killing small animals etc. and is often used as 'psychopathic' as well. That was what I lived with. a psychopath. I later learned of his early years, his criminal history, (Ns are not necessarily criminal but can be as disagreeable as h**k!) He, when drunk driving, at 25 killed a 16 yr. old girl, one of his many jail terms. It all came to light, then with me, and I saw him deal in stolen goods and I suspected pornography.
Our stories are here for others to read, compare, take note and what fits, use, and what doesn't just leave behind.
Take Good Care Lupita (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/pinkflower.gif)
Love
Izzy
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Lupita,
I've posted parts of my story here from time to time. Until seven years ago when my recovery began, I had been forced to jump through just about every imaginable narcissistic hoop from about age 2 1/2. I'm recovering steadily, but still struggle with residual grief, anger, disappointment, and resentments. I would like to think that one day I'll wake up and exclaim, I'm whole. The work of recovery is finished. It's a new day. I'm the way I was meant to be before the abuse began. Yes, I would like that very much, but on a practical level, it's not likely to happen. What I've stated here and in other accounts of my story are true. My mom IS a full blown narcissist. Now here is where I was going with this little story. Once when I was lamenting my circumstances on the board a person responding to my post, called my mom a name/label. And even though my mom is a narcissist, I just wasn't prepared for someone else to talk badly about her using this particular label.
Later we (the other poster and myself) had a discussion about it and it was resolved with the help of a third poster who had more insight into why my feelings had been hurt. It was because that particular label in my culture or more specifically my region of the country was and is considered crude and socially unacceptable. As I say, this has been completely resolved. There was no malicious intent on the part of the other poster and forgiving her was easy.
I'm not aware of anyone here on VESMB who holds themselves out as professional psychotherapists except out esteemed moderator, Dr. Grossman. The rest of us are in the main, well intentioned, garden variety, amateur, street talking, cyberspacing social psychologist. That pretty much restricts us to giving encouragement by sharing our experiences and offering opinions. I've seen some good educated guesses proffered from time to time as well.
Lupita, labels are not who we are.
You matter. What you say here on the board is good and significant and helpful.
My very best to you.
tt
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Isittoolate,
Thank you so much so much for the validation you just gave me. Everybody else just said there was nothing wrong. There was nothing intentionally wrong. These are good people. No doubt. Absolutly. But there was something wrong.
And wether others accept it or not, there was something wrong, that should not happen. We need not to ignore it.
We, again, might consider to say:
Such and such exhibit trais of such and such.
But not to say SUCH AND SUCH ARE SUCH AND SUCH,
Thank you so much Isit. Thank you.
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Tear, I totally agree with you.
Thanks to this board I am cowing up.
Six months ago, when I started posting, I just witdrew if something upseted me. This time, I said I was going away, but did not do it. I am here. I will keep posting. I expressed my disagreement.
I am positive and secure that nobody intended to hurt me.
That means I am growing. I am growing. Thanks to the help of so many people here.
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Amazing was that Hopalong was the only one to recognize that I was apologizing not because I felt I did something wrong, but because I had fear. I was so much afraid that you guys would reject me or abandon me. She sensed that immediately.
I feel very well today. I really think that this was a learning experience for me. Very important. If i can control that, I will succeed an any job, any friendship, any family, anywhere.
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Dear Lupita,
You had a huge breakthrough,yesterday. I am very,very happy for you. The main one who had COURAGE was you. You had the courage to be angry. That is a BIG thing with mother's like ours.
I have never 'seen" you so 'real" before, Lupita.
What is wonderful about the board,is that with ALL these voices, someone always understands right where we are. It is so beautiful and so healing Love Ami
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No disrespect intended, Lup. "Honey" and other terms of endearment come so naturally to me as southern as I am.
Towrite.
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You won't be abandoned here, Lupita.
I promise.
Amazing was that Hopalong was the only one to recognize that I was apologizing not because I felt I did something wrong, but because I had fear. I was so much afraid that you guys would reject me or abandon me. She sensed that immediately.
I feel very well today. I really think that this was a learning experience for me. Very important. If i can control that, I will succeed an any job, any friendship, any family, anywhere.
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Dear Lupita,
No abandonment from teartracks! I've always had the greatest respect for your voice here.
tt