Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 05:30:30 PM

Title: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 05:30:30 PM: Hi all

For those who don't know, my feelings have been buried fo(all of my?) 68 years. Too many traumas beginning with my physically abusive father who raged incessantly, right on through the car crash, the estrangement and living with a psychopath. I left him 5 years ago and am 'almost' through talkiing about Ns and Ps. I want to pay attention to my progress and ability to 'voice' myself.

One day I saw a little 3-legged klitten in a TV commercial about abused and injured aniimals. I got a lump in my throat, but didn't cry (I haven't cried since 1993.)

I took my car to the fix-it shop and had a thumpity-thump thump attraction to the mechanic. ( Being that I am always attracted to the wrong man, I suspected those kind smiling eyes where the same as my psychopaths were, and hiding something. He was flirting and talked too much. He said he brought that service station back from near bankruptcy and was so happy to finally own his own business--misleading or a lie? I took my car in today and he is no longer there. The Real Owner is there.)

I had an adrenaline rush --first in a long time and I don't know if that is connected to feelings.

When I last cried in 1993, coincidentally it was my sister who came out here just recently who was the one who popped along that day. I couldn't stop crying. It was about my daughter, so sister well remembers and when I said,when they were here, that that was the last time I cried, she went bug-eyed and asked "REALLY??"

My therapist sees and senses progress but I think I need a jackhammer to get through. I was the super-sensitivve child of the 5 kids.

Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 05:39:21 PM: Dear Izzy,

Is there anything I can do to help?

My feelings are in a bit of a rumpus due to perimenopause combined with actively digging them out (I think).

The other day I pulled up alongside a semi-tractor load of live chickens, all rumpled and packed together in their crates.
Of all those hundreds of chickens, only one was looking me in the eye... and I cried.

From not being sure I could feel anything too deeply to crying at the drop of a hat has been quite a system shock.
I do, however, have extra "Puffs" if you ever need some.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Ami on August 13, 2007, 05:58:51 PM: Dear Izzy,
I think that you should find stories or programs that make you cry. I think that the first step is to just let the tears flow. As they do, I think that you will start to identify the 'frozen " feelings.
I remember in the book Animal Farm, when Boxer( the horse) died, I cried and cried. Boxer was unswervingly loyal. He only saw good . He worked his fingers to the bone b/c for those he loved
He was so innocent and his innocence killed him. When he died by trying to help others--- no one cared.This was the short version of my life with my mother.
Find animal stories, Paul Potts( who i know you like) or any other inspiring things and let them in(IMO).
Ami
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 06:01:11 PM: Thanks Hope,

I don't know what would make me cry, but it wouldn't be a chicken---kinda sad, kinda funny.

All the stuff I say is in my head but not in my heart I can say, "I know I love my brother", but I don't physically feel it!

That's why my Izzy, is isittoolate is it too late at 68 to change all these years of thinking and not fgeeling--tough job for the therapist. I will have to set a $limit$ on treatment

I sense that if all the feelings came rushiing in, I wouldn't be able to deal with 68 years worth

Thanks for the offer.
Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 06:14:27 PM: Hi Ami
Thanks. I know the movies and stories that would make me cry every time--but no longer! I know the sadness but there are no tears.

And reading about active Ns hardens me even more, so I try to stay away from those posts..... hardens....or keeps me on an even keel that I was not alone in my experience with a P.

I am alone and content and that is not right!

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 06:28:21 PM: Dear Izzy,

I don't know what's okay to say... is it alright to ask questions and poke a bit here to try to name the feelings around some of the events in your life?

That's where I began, once I realized that the activity in my head wasn't lining up with what was in my heart.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: lighter on August 13, 2007, 06:34:01 PM: Izzy.... I don't know how to jackhammer through all those years but....

it does sound like you're making progress to me.

I think you might be able to cry the next time you see that 3 legged kitten commercial if you pay attention to what you do to STOP the crying.

The lump was crying trying to happen..... you stopped it..... how? Most people take deep breaths or think about something else.

Just falling into the tears and thinking about even sadder things is painful but getting out, even a little.... is a start.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: teartracks on August 13, 2007, 06:45:34 PM: Iz,

The other day, I tried making my bed the way you describe making yours. Girl you have that down to a science. You are so smart.

I remember a time in my life when I taught myself not to cry. There was so much going on, it seemed like I was bawling about one serious matter after another every day. I'm the type that when I have a good cry, I feel terrible physically the day after. I didn't like that feeling and I didn't like the way it made my eyes look. I have small eyes and after a good cry, I sort of looked eyeless. Anyway, my reason for not crying was different from yours, (or maybe deep down it wasn't) but the thing is, I over corrected to the point where nothing made me cry. Somehow what I'd intended to be a discipline to ward off the aftermath and the way I looked morphed into a kind of brittleness and hardness. I can't explain it. In order not to cry, one must deny the depth of their feelings. I became rather feelingless. Somewhere along the way, perhaps when my boys died, I went about unlearning what had started out innocently enough, but which had grown past anything that was reasonable. I so hope you get your feelings back. No one is a rock or an island. I hear you loud and clear.

Love,
tt
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 07:09:44 PM: Dear Izzy,

Were you very shy as a little girl?

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 07:31:36 PM: Thank you authentic, Hope, lighter and tt,

Authentic, :lol:
I wouldn’t doubt that I am holding in a bottomless pit of anger, but I never get angry. It is likely from the beginning with my father and dysfunctional family. My parents are now dead and come Aug 18, all 5 of us are 65 or over.
I am likely in the age group of the mothers or fathers that some of you young whippersnappers post about!! Eh?
I don’t feel the anger, so don’t think of it as a crutch. My ‘contentment” gets me by.

Hope, :lol:
Thank you
Yes you can poke, but there might be something that I won’t know, don’t know, will never know and some things that are not printable. Yes I was super shy!!

Lighter :lol:
Thanks
I know that kitten could have made me wail in another lifetime, but just the lump came this time. My therapist was pleased.

Tt :lol:
Thank you
Did you make your bed my way? Sitting in the middle??? Gee maybe I ought to patent that??? HA!I look like hell when I cry too REALLY bad, red and all swollen, but sexy eyes the next day. OK!! Just now I realized that if I wept and wailed it was never in front of anyone---wow! Always alone—no one ever saw the mess. My Goodness—you never know when you’re going to hear yourself speak.
Lordy—when your boys died………………….
Me—when my daughter’s N dismissed me from their lives, 1991—took me 2 year to ‘crack’……………………….

Love to all
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 07:40:47 PM: Dear Izzy,

I was extremely shy, too.
Here's a self-test http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm (http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm)
to determine whether you'd be considered a "highly sensitive person".

Although I'm much more outgoing at this stage of my life, I was amazed to see that nearly every one of those statements is still true for me. If the same is true for you, then perhaps it's not so unusual for you to feel contented alone?

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hopalong on August 13, 2007, 08:21:15 PM: Hi Izzz,

There's a weird but interesting couseling organization, semi cultish, called Co-Counseling or Reevaluation Counseling. I tried it for a few months and loved the people, but wound up quitting because I couldn't hack the organization's history or people's discomfort with any challenge to some of their wackier theories.

Can't believe I'm suggesting this, but for this issue, I think they'd be good for you. They do cry. And not alone. And it might be a real oasis for you.

love
Hops PS--I also recommend reading Old Yeller.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 08:29:42 PM: Hi Hope

I did a 10
I am far more outgoing now than when a little girl
I know what I want re people and respect and work and I have earned the respect, admiration and trust of these people. They are my only face to face contacts. We joke and laugh. We commiserate. My head knows it all and what to do. I help the people who don't know what they're doing or where they are going---but this is only about an hour a week at the Office--all else I being home. Here I often have to call people and I am pleasant.

I don't think of myself as a phony because I mean what I say and do.

I wonder if God put that rock in there for my feelings so I could survive this long? --a helpless little girl who knew nothing and would never learn until fear drove her to succeed. I believe that the fear of failing was my impetus, but still a part of me wasn't into some of the things I did.

Makw any sense????

Izzy :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 08:34:45 PM: Yes, it makes sense, Izzy.

If you put a photo of that helpless little girl before your eyes for a few days, you may find that she's alot closer than 60+ years away.

If you want to...
just doing that had a strong effect on me lately.
I can think back to her now and score 26... probably 27 if I had any idea what I'd be like without caffeine.

P.S. on edit - Fear of turning into my mother was my impetus. Same thing.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 08:46:32 PM: hiys Hopsie

Old Yeller was in my thoughts today too, and Bambi, and Madame X (Lana turner version), An Affair to Remember, both versions, thinking of how lonely I was that I cried, at age 19, thinking about losing my daughter and my grandchildren, no go.

I will Google that Co-C, or Re-Eval thingy--I'm in Canada. Are they?

I thought of taking in a kitten-a 3-legged one, but soon it will be a cat, and cats have servants. In this case, me.I loved I love baby pigs, but hated the big boars and sows.
I love dogs, love their loyalty, but No for this building!
No squawking birds! I see plenty when I'm out--even ducks from the lake wander all the way to my street.They are freindly and peaceful.
Fish are like watching the grass grow!
No snakes, no spiders, no frogs, no hamsters, NO PETS! NO MEN!

Hoh Boy!

love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 09:07:15 PM: Thanks Hope,

I'll try that poor little child I was then, in front of me now and see what happens.

I, too, had a fear of becoming my mother.

Thanks S&S & Hops again

I googled for my area and there is nothing but credit counselling and christian counselling.

Nevertheless, with this post of mine, it tells the newbies where I stand and I was very close to leaving by the time I had told everything about me, and said that that was always the time I might break off a friendship..................becasue she might not like me anymore....................oh how I switched friends in high school........ and how telling that I usually chose one who was a little "lesser" than me in the general statements of the community.

She is still married to her first husband, has 5 kids, has her own catering business and he is a teacher. Oh SH**!

xx
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 09:25:27 PM: Dear Izzy,

It took a few days for me, with photos of a very happy baby and then suddenly that somber face. School - with no emotional support and performance being job 1 = the smiles left.

Also I'm looking at how the shyness has changed shape over the years... holding quite firm through college, and then gradually, in some ways, learning to conform to the shape of various masks... employee, wife, mother... but never leaving. I remember my mother saying to me,
"Well, you certainly don't like to socialize!"
Nope. Not when her definition of "socialize" is "act like a phony" and dad's definition is to drink yourself silly.

So the shyness morphed, but it didn't fade really... and it's still there in many ways, as I realize that I never really learned how to get to know a person, or even what questions/info it's okay to ask and share... not apart from the mask or role. Those roles do get pretty hollow.
Maybe you're tired of leaving people behind once you've said it all...
what's that old cigarette commercial - I'd rather fight than switch? :)
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: dandylife on August 13, 2007, 09:43:48 PM: mmmmm, Izzy, I'm thinking sex might get you back in touch with your feelings? (any suitors?)

If not that, then spoil your senses.

Chocolate, wine and a hot bubble bath. Then what transpires in Izzy's mind?

What are you desires, yearnings? What do you want to do before you die? (answer to yourself!)

Once you start making Izzy important, perhaps your feelings will return?

Dandylife
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 09:48:04 PM: hi Hop

I can identify with the getting to know someone. I know now we must first know ourselves and I never did!

I remember everyone of my school girl friends thought I was the "best" They said I would be the first to get married--things like that, and I never believed a word of it!!!!!

All I have to do is think back to then and know I wan't feeling. I was saying things that I felt ..fit!
now I;m 68 and do nutty things, for the hell of it!

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 10:02:06 PM: Hi dandylife

Aren't you cute!! Sex after all I've been through--a receptacle after his watching porn for 3 hours every night! I say NO!

I drink wine. That's okay. I eat chocolate and get "old" pimples.

Am allowed only 10 minutes in the tub for my stress rashes!!

I have no desire or yearniing except to write the "perfect song" and have it go gold!

I have no places I wish to go see before I die. I have no special person I want to see.... would have been Johnny Cash. I want to drop dead immediately from something! No pain!

Then I will be cremated and the urn will require two holes, one on either side, for my Harrington Rods and I will be a TV anntena for some poor folks.

To go back in time and the way I love classical music, I think that my interest in playing the piano ought to have been followed up as I would have loved to have been a concert pianist. Parents too poor and wouldn't have even known what I wanted.

The world will lose (has already lost?) the best concert pinaist it could have ever had...........................think about that!!

Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 13, 2007, 10:04:33 PM: Izzy,

I've done nutty things like marry a couple men I barely knew, just to get a new sense of identity... and that's just the recent stuff...and so I can understand!
Besides the no answers/no feelings rule at home, there was the molding and shaping. Mother taught me to read very young and found such great satisfaction with that, she moved on to teaching me piano, and then I guess she'd had enough, shipped me off to parochial school at just 5. Emotionally I was a toddler, I think, and scared spitless. She took me from hiding behind the shrubbery in the yard when a car would pass by and tossed me into a group of kindergardeners... but - whoops - no, it was decided, she can read already, so let's see how she does in first grade! I think it was about then that my shell developed armored plating. They shuttled me from morning Kindergarden to afternoon with grade 1 class for... I forget how long, but long enough to ensure that I did not fit in anywhere.
12 years with basically this same group in parochial school.
Shocked me years later to discover that they'd expected me to become a great success... and all I'd managed was a fallen apart family.

Somewhere during that 12 years, the me who used to spread out a little pink afghan and have a picnic at naptime with some stuffed friends... completely disappeared.

Love,
Hope

P.S. you are too cute to be a receptacle or an antenna :P
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hopalong on August 13, 2007, 11:30:49 PM: Quote
I will be cremated and the urn will require two holes, one on either side, for my Harrington Rods and I will be a TV anntena for some poor folks.

Izzy, you are completely adorable. Thank you for this wonderful laugh!

And so was your little self. Sweet little thing, so shy with her two pudgy hands doing everything they can to HIDE HER FACE.
(And now her grown self is tuckey-tucked away in her apartment, lighting up other people's lives with honesty and laughter.)

love
Hops
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 11:39:19 PM: Hope
You misspelled s*itless'
Wow! so similar. I hid in the raspberry patch and on top of the granary and I had a maple tree that I climbed to the top.

I never had a pink afghan to spread. I never had a doll until I was 12.

We had no kindergarten and grade one was at 6, but I started at 5. I took 1, the 2 and ½ of 3, then ½ of 3 and 4, so was 7 and then turned 8 before entering Grade 5. The only other girl had breasts. I didn't. She was 12. I heard the gossip.

i believe that in Grade one I unconciously knew I needed to survive and I concocted ways to remember my numbers, alphabet, days of the week and months of the year. They are diagrams in my head.

I didn't fit. The girls paired off and what was left was 5 year old me and 14 year old Florence-she told me she slept with ther uncle.

There were things at home and thiings at school and by 12 , when I was still wetting the bed, I was in high school.

Good Grief!!

Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 01:04:42 AM: Ever have one of those bad hair days--can't do anything with it?

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: changing on August 14, 2007, 01:12:09 AM: Hey There Izzy-

I know that after I had my accident and the several Frankenfoot surgeries, I felt too vulnerable to break down, etc. The doctors were amazed- I would be shaking, teeth clenched, sweat pouring off of me, outrageous pain, and say nothing. My chart said "tolerates pain and procedures extremely well". The maimed kitten image makes me sad too (I'm sure everyone is moved, but maybe we relate more?)

It sometimes seems that we can be viewed as easy prey- crying and being sad makes us appear even more so. So we hide ourselves and our feelings as best we can. No one is here to watch our backs so we rear up and puff out our chests ! I have found that a story or movie with a happy ending that would be wonderful, but would never happen to us, like having loved ones who never abandon, etc , really makes me come unglued, and voila! I feel better!

IZZ- you are so vibrant, bright and savvy! If I only had such spatial imaging prowess!!!! What a woman! Help me figure out my printer, please, after you've had a massive cry!

I think you might cry if you saw the ceiling that I need to finish painting!

Love you,

Changing
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hopalong on August 14, 2007, 07:28:35 AM: Put that photo on a singles site, Izz, and you'll be telling swains "Take a number, get in line, keep the line moving please..." in no time...

:lol:

Hops
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: changing on August 14, 2007, 08:05:06 AM: It's true Miss Izzy- there is an aura of feminine mystery wafting from that photo that will drive them wild! Sort of a twist on Marlene Deitrich... You WILD WOMAN!

Hugs,

Changing
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 14, 2007, 08:53:03 AM: Dear Izzy,

My hair is very much like yours! lol - I have done the "Cousin It" look often, on blustery days. Ponytails are my friend. It's thick and every third one wants to coil like a spring... can't stand the feel of it on my face and at 110 degree heat index lately, the cue-ball look has some appeal :D In lieu of that, I tie on a babushka, behind ears, and do my housfrau imitation.

Iz,I went back a couple posts because I've been thinking back to "then", too... and trying to remember when it began... that I know I wasn't feeling...
I was just saying things that I thought... fit.
It's very disorienting, because I can't remember much of the real early feelings except fear and all that shyness. I know that there was an unspoken rule not to show emotions and then there was a very unstable aunt who showed enough emotions for all of us and she frightened me... too too touchy-feely. I felt like an alien... and in the home, just all that silence.
Cold-shoulder-anger and contempt all around my mother like a force-field and then Dad's alcohol induced joviality.
The friends I had enjoyed quiet passtimes... but any feelings were long locked away, I guess the "saying what seemed to fit" started when I made shyness enemy #1 and slept with my first man... and then married him.
Nutty thing... just to get it over with.

By the way, you could learn the piano now, even on a keyboard. You read music?

Interesting combo of topics here.

No diagrams in my head, Izzy... much difficulty with the spatial. Much.
But I remember what people say and what I write down. Words... they stick. Not images. If asked to give a physical description of someone, I'd be struck dumb. Don't know whether that's an innate deficiency or a shyness shut-down. Survival meant holding it all in and not looking too closely...

I had a 14-yo Florence, too... her name was Martha. My very successful and pompous old brother said once, "you sure know how to pick friends:P"
She was a reject, but I loved her.

There was nothing at home and nothing at school except to do well and not need anything.
Nothing to cry about there... just had to buckle down and grow up... or act like it anyhow. What happens to all the other feelings besides fear when a person is so shy? After awhile, the biggest fear became... fear of the shyness.

I wouldn't dare wet the bed, Izzy. My 2nd daughter did, till she was 9 and we got away from her dad. I cried alot then.

Would you have been shy in any environment back then or did the things at home cause it? I wonder.
Time for a ponytail :)

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: teartracks on August 14, 2007, 09:56:10 AM: Hi Iz,

Yes, I made my bed sitting in the middle like you described. A patent. Go for it! Hope you're having a fabulous day.

tt
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: cats paw on August 14, 2007, 12:57:49 PM: Hi Izzy,

I have started posting a little again recently, and I just wanted to let you know I was following your posts about your anticipated visit from your siblings and was glad that it went well for you.

After reading - "I sense that if all the feelings I had came rushing in, I wouldn't be able to deal with 68 years worth" and "I know the sadness but there are no tears" - I thought of the video of the song that Johnny Cash did. I don't know the name of it, or the words, but was it what he wrote when his wife died?

All I know it was achingly, beautifully, sadly- awesome. So rawly human.

cats paw
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: lighter on August 14, 2007, 01:07:22 PM: This isn't a pic of some second removed half cousin uncle... is it, lol?

JK.... and I want to scoop that baby up and snuggle her in the sun then nap for an hour.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 01:53:57 PM: Thanks you,
You know, changing, when patients take everything with a rain of salt, no one is likely to be too concerned, generally speaking. I was the grain of salt type, I expect, and no one became overly concerned? I was 30 and well accustomed to not crying from childhood.
Happy bed making! You may use my invention, free of charge.
Tell me what’s wrong with your printer!!

And Thank you Hope,
I was shy as far back as I can remember, and that is when the others in the family laughed at me, pointed, sniggered, (Dad often set them off), ridiculed and taunted. Therapist believes this to be the beginning of crawling into a hole inside.
Then I developed the fear as well. Fear that everyone would be like the family. I so hated to be singled out.

Thanks cats paw
The video, Johnny Cash, Hurt? I’ve heard the song Hurt, but I heard only once, the song I thought I heard said was what he wrote for June. MANY of Johnnny’s songs used to make me cry. That was ‘cuz they made me think of my daughter’s father, (He’s dead now) I have a couple of his DVDs and lots of CDs—I could try again?

Aww lighter
You want to hug me when I was little—I was never hugged then.

What a sorry life!

Love to all +Hops

Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 14, 2007, 02:05:37 PM: Dear Izzy,

You're welcome :) This feels good, mostly... and peaceful and safe, too.
I haven't cried about my first daughter's father for over 25 years.
Had a chance to see him again when we visited that daughter in hospital last month, but he avoided it.
I was prepared... I think. Would have been interesting.
Or not.

He finally did remarry and has a grown step-daughter.
He was my first "love"... but then I barely knew him and surely didn't know myself.
I did speak with him on the phone before our visit to the hospital. He "forgives" me... heh.
Daughter says he's told her he knows it was all his fault.
A bit conflicted, I guess.

No room for "what ifs", though. Wouldn't have these three other hoodlums, etc. if there'd been a what if.
:)

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 02:22:19 PM: I found these, maybe even on this Board, to send to my brother in my Saturday message. He will be 65!

1.)
To this day, his anger is so deeply buried that his surface is passive, sometimes like there's no life in him. He’s terrified of his own or anyone's anger. All his life's energy, his spirit, is buried deeply with his anger.

2.)
The pain of shame comes when you believe that something in life has damaged you,
perhaps permanently and beyond repair. Maybe you were abused, ridiculed, or neglected as a child. Maybe your family hides some dark secret, or you have been involved in some activity you deem subhuman. Whatever the cause, you see yourself as defective and worthless, and every day for you is a "walk of shame."

The pain of shame forces you to fear being exposed for who you really are. Thus you do one of two things: you work desperately to be perfect, to be above scrutiny, or you withdraw from life and don't even try to measure up.

I think he is really trying to understand about what I told him and sister.
Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 02:24:40 PM: hi Hope

My first too. Met in '61 and he died in '79, at age 47--i had left him in '66 and it was a suicide.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: bigalspal on August 14, 2007, 02:39:16 PM: Hi Izzy,
I can't stay on the board for very long, due to lack of strength, but I wanted to give you a big (((((((((IZZY))))).
I'm sorry about your past & the hurt you went (still going) through.
Sounds A LOT like my story, except I was always crying.
I wish I could be strong like you & hold more in.
I think BOTH WAYS can be very damaging.
People always sense weakness in me & exploit that.
I wish I could play my cards closer to the vest, but have never learned how.
Anyway, I wish you peace!
Love,
Bigalspal
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 14, 2007, 02:58:12 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 02:22:19 PM
I found these, maybe even on this Board, to send to my brother in my Saturday message. He will be 65!

1.)
To this day, his anger is so deeply buried that his surface is passive, sometimes like there's no life in him. He’s terrified of his own or anyone's anger. All his life's energy, his spirit, is buried deeply with his anger.

2.)
The pain of shame comes when you believe that something in life has damaged you,
perhaps permanently and beyond repair. Maybe you were abused, ridiculed, or neglected as a child. Maybe your family hides some dark secret, or you have been involved in some activity you deem subhuman. Whatever the cause, you see yourself as defective and worthless, and every day for you is a "walk of shame."

The pain of shame forces you to fear being exposed for who you really are. Thus you do one of two things: you work desperately to be perfect, to be above scrutiny, or you withdraw from life and don't even try to measure up.

I think he is really trying to understand about what I told him and sister.
Izzy

Dear Izzy,

Yes, I recognize the quotes.
You are sending those to your brother to explain what you think has happened in your emotional life?
I hope that he sees... I think he will.

The quotes describe my life, too.. but I don't think that my brother or parents would be interested to know that. I'm glad for you that your brother cares.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 03:21:39 PM: hiya Bap

I hope you are coming along!

Playing cards close to the vest---Aha! that is me--I NEVER tell anyone anything unless I really want them to know.
Is that playing close to the vest?
I am in BC becasue I came here with a P. Now I'm 5 years gone from him, but if anyone asks me things, like why I am here alone, no family, I say, "Who could resist this beautiful Okanagan weather, where the Winters are great--3 days long, and that beats fighting 6 months of winter in Ontario." By that time they have forgotten what they asked, or else I gave an honest answer, which it is--but not the initial reason.

Quote
I think BOTH WAYS can be very damaging.

Me too

Well I've had a very crazy life because I remember the childhood dysfunction and now I am 68--Grandma of the Board--- same age as some poster's N mother LOL!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My beginning, in not learning about life, etc. has made me make bad choices, and I couldn't stop my daughter's choice of an N--though I didn't know about N-ism at the time. Anyway were were estranged in 1991 and are still semi -estranged. She is 43, but my mind holds the picture of her as a teen.

I am always surprised (but not ought to be) when people say I am strong. My therapist says competent and strong. I have come through many adversities, but suicide was never a choice. I come out ahead but that's only one battle won, not the War.

I am in the War on this Board. Trying to fit all the adversities into one person and see WHY and WHERE all feelings are hidden and HOW to find them!

Love Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: WRITE on August 14, 2007, 03:38:59 PM: I am in the War on this Board.

did i miss something?
I told you I'm too introspective these days, I never know what the heck is going on

:lol:

Well Izzy, I lost my temper last night and roared at my ex, I think there may be a down-side to this self-expression thing.
My son ran to the bathroom to hide and we had to apologise to him ( and each other ) after.

He’s terrified of his own or anyone's anger. All his life's energy, his spirit, is buried deeply

I've always done anything to avoid anger, I thought it would be so out of control especially if I got angry....

Maybe it's an evolutionary thing, something to do with a pack order or communal good or something?

Louise Hay thinks it's responsible for tons of physical illness.

Johnny Cash keeps coming up again and again, my patients really identify with his music, I must look up his biography.

Here's a song he wrote about his wife:

Meet Me In Heaven

Johnny Cash

We saw houses falling from the sky

Where the mountains lean down to the sand

We saw blackbirds circling 'round an old castle keep

And I stood on the cliff and held your hand

We walked troubles brooding wind swept hills

And we loved and we laughed the pain away

At the end of the journey, when our last song is sung

Will you meet me in Heaven someday

(Chorus) Can't be sure of how's it's going to be

When we walk into the light across the bar

But I'll know you and you'll know me

Out there beyond the stars

We've seen the secret things revealed by God

And we heard what the angels had to say

Should you go first, or if you follow me

Will you meet me in Heaven someday

Living in a mansion on the streets of gold

At the corner of Grace and Rapture Way

In sweet ecstasy while the ages roll

Will you meet me in Heaven someday....
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: lighter on August 14, 2007, 03:45:24 PM: Hey Write:

If you don't mind sharing.... .what did your ex do that triggered that roar, from you?
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 03:46:11 PM: hi hope

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5246.60 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5246.60) Message 70? tells what I said to them here, and then my brother asked me to wait 2 weeks and to write to him about how I felt about the weekend. I'm not sure what his intention is on that, but all I an say is that when they came to the door it was as though only a couple of weeks had passed, not 9-11 years. I enjoyed the 2 days, the next day was surreal, but don't we all have to get back to work?

So those quotes are to be iin the message, as an extra boost to help him understand. I told them some things out but where is the proof? They both are younger than I, but *I* remember. So psychology enters the picture.

What I noticed in particular was that I said something about how I felt at age 15 (he would be 11) then I scooted away to have a few cig puffs away from him and he was thinkng, and brought up the topic--he was interested--WHY did I feel this way ay 15? so I told him and now this will be a followup letter with quotes NOT from me, about hidden feelings.

He also thanked me for "smoking away from him". I appreciated that, as he never said "no smoking" as he is better now from a bad allergy that sent his wife and daughter outdoors for over 10 years.

I have issues wirh all 4 sisters but nary a one with my brother! He is a good man, husband, father and grandfather.

Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 04:02:08 PM: Oh Write

Thank you for those lyrics to the song.

I said:
Quote
I am always surprised (but not ought to be) when people say I am strong. My therapist says competent and strong. I have come through many adversities, but suicide was never a choice. I come out ahead but that's only one battle won, not the War.

I am in the War on this Board. Trying to fit all the adversities into one person and see WHY and WHERE all feelings are hidden and HOW to find them!

This is my final battle, to win the war: the final chance to to become normal, but I have my doubts, after 68 years.

if anyone remembers the game my daughter & I were sharing , back and forth, she stopped! That's her perogative but is not how I wanted to see this end with the game ½ done and I am still playing on my own.

Now this is sad but I take it as just another speed bump on my road of life.

That is the "off hand" way I take serious matters, so as not to become too involved again!

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 14, 2007, 04:25:16 PM: Dear Izzy,

Reading back through your previous thread, just before and after they visited, I saw where you'd asked what is surreal... after I'd said that maybe it was "bliss" (which I pictured as a combination of relief and satisfaction with closure)... and then I see that I left the thread hanging. I'm sorry! Clearly I missed something there, but I'm catching up now.
Your message #70 mentions the secrets you'd thought that you'd been holding for your brother... and that you'd told him of the traumas,
some of which occurred when he was too young to be aware. I remember reading before that you'd gone off to the kitchen for a few puffs, but I'm not finding that post now and I can't remember how you told him you'd felt at 15 - was it ashamed? Usually I can remember exact words but this is escaping me and I'm not seeing it.
I get a bit scattered this time of day. Must be time for coffee.

Have you told your daughter that you wish the sharing of your game together hadn't stopped?
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 06:30:43 PM: hi Hope
a conversation began started by me to make it lead to my saying that I knew, at 15, that no one would love me and I would never be married. arrrived at that conclusion at a wedding I attended at that age!--talking also about all eyes being on the attendants and the bride and I couldn't take that.

Going to the kitchen, in my apt., I was still in sight but smoking far enough away from my brother to not bother him (something he thanked me for all weekend)

Becasue the family NEVER talks about these things, that is why I left, and also to see if either would pick up on what I said. My brother did, so we continued on a heavy-duty conversation.

I haven't written my daughter for quite some time.........................that's another story....

I was downtown taking pictures of 3 things I missed showing the "kids" (64 and 66 to my 68, but they soon to be 65 and 67--)

So I am thinking that up until I was 15, I was lonely and unhappy and just figured that was life--then at 15 I analyzed and have been analying ever since.

xx
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 08:04:38 PM: I have been preparing the most meaningful statements for my brother in the message he asked for, for Sunday--2 weeks from when they left and how these 2 weeks were for me. I will mail it Saturday, tho', as that is his birthday!

There have been quite a number of times of family get togethers--when mom and Dad were alive, and still when Dad died and Mom was on her own, and still after Mom died.

There was one time I asked a sister for a sibling get together, no spouses. (I always felt that they depended upon their husbands to feel real? protected? or whatever, and I was always alone.)

This request was turned down because sisters wouldn't attend a get together (meeting) without their/her spouse.

What do you make of that?????????????????????????

I've put this in my message to Wes about how long ago I wanted us all together to talk about my being 'different'--'unhappy', an enigma, weird............................... whatever.

Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 14, 2007, 08:53:58 PM: Dear Izzy,

At 15... I can't remember much about feelings or decisions.
They must be hidden far away, so I'll have to think on that in order to try to relate.
I don't understand why I had such Shyness (shame?) because I didn't have the sort of situation you did... but I sure did hate being singled out!
Offhand I don't remember admiring happy families (or really knowing any?) or looking forward to having one, or weddings, or any thought of such.
My brother who is 10 years older married when I was 10 and I don't recall any feelings at all about that, either.
About all I remember is loads and loads of homework and I think also it was about that time that my dad gave me a small television for my bedroom... at 15-16. I spent alot of time in my room or outside. Friends were into other things by then and I was younger than they, so still... not fitting in. Sheesh, I know there was more than that, but it's escaping me.

I think your sisters were frightened of you, Iz... yes, wanting to use their spouses as shields to keep distance...
as though they were afraid of what you might say to them alone... guilty consciences? They need bodyguards? Goodness!

When you say you started to analyze at 15, do you mean that's when you stopped feeling? Like you gave up on... yourself - emotionally - and put feelings away?

I have to go pick up kiddo from band practice. You are stumping me over here, Iz, but that's because I can't remember how I felt back then and later, it never would have occurred to me to ask for a private meeting to talk about it. You are way ahead of me in that! Say, what did you hope would come of that meeting which never happened? Did you want your siblings to talk about how they felt about life in your family home? or about you personally? Sorry, gotta zoom... back soon.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 14, 2007, 09:45:58 PM: Hi Hope,
I used to have a great link to Shame vs, Guilt.

Anyway, what i remember is that I child will find his life built on shame if he observes his parents doing something wrong, or 'even feels that it is wrong.

So go to church on sunday, listen as told, then watch parents not follow the teachings.
Listen to mom on the phone and what she is saying sounds like something 'bad' about someone else and say nothing (She was gossiping.)
Dad beats with a razor strap, feels awfully painful then the family sits down together for dinner... nothing 'bad' talked about.

That is a base for shame--you feel it but nothing is said!

I don't remember a happy moment. Maybe because it wasn't necessary. But I remember the bad, sad ones as there was never any talk about the shame of it/them.... no resolution.

When I was 15, it was the wedding I was attending that started me to thinking what I did.

Some babies are gentically shy. The parent ought to help to overcome very early on, I say!

I remember sad/bad from age 3-4-5-6-7 then maybe 9-11-13 or 12-14-16. At 7 a baby brother died. I felt that was badly mishandled as we were not spoken to about death....at least I wasn't.

I wondered if someone would say my sisters were afraid to have a sibling meeting.It might have brought out some very bad behaviour that I remember. It might also have shown how there can be FIVE perspectives about a given incident (me doubting what I remember?--yet that's what I remember)

If you don't remember, your time could have be happy enough to not stick in your mind.

Don't we not always think/feel about the bad/the guilt/ the shame/the quarrels/ the embarrassments????? etc????

Oh yes, I do!

later

Gonna watch a new DVD--have a think!!

Thank you

izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 14, 2007, 10:01:01 PM: (((((((Izzy))))))

I have been zooming too much, here and there, to and fro... literally and figuratively.
It's time for me to get to the bottom of this shame/shy business. Next on list.

Of the reasons you mention for shame I see:
Hypocrisy, unreasonable expectations/perfectionism, no beating physically, but emotionally = no input, no feedback, nothing.

I'll start there and have a think, too.

Your memories of sad/bad... all the way from 3-16? Constantly? (You didn't put an age 8 in there)
No explanation of baby brother's death would sure leave alot of questions.
I had a very nice (fairly sane) aunt who explained my grandpa's death to me when I was 6. Later she lost her own 2nd child at only a few hours old and I understood. Nobody else said anything.

Maybe your sisters aren't afraid of you, just afraid to remember. They've put it into its place as they see fit and somehow you went along with it to that place, too... not a pleasant thought, but people have put me into that place with stuff they'd rather forget, I think.

Going for that think, Iz... in the tub.
A tub think.
More hugs to you and thank you, too.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hopalong on August 14, 2007, 11:54:51 PM: Hi Izz,
Is there a way you can communicate this need to them without expressing blame?

Blame might stop this closeness that is so precious right now.

I understand how much you need them to "catch up" with who you were and are and what you've been through.

love
Hops

PS--when you were a confused abused kid...they were too.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 15, 2007, 12:06:00 AM: Hi Hops,

I am not blaming anyone. I am digging back to see what started which episode. If it was my wetting the bed, so be it. If it was calling me baldy so be it, if it was calling me ol' grayhead so be it,
I cannot see that 5 senior siblings cannot sit down and LAUGH at all this stupidiity, YET somewhere in the pile of junk is the answer for maybe more than for me!

I have told everyone here what happened, but if I said I was not blaming anyone, they could have said, "Well shut up, then! "

You see how the approach can help?

But it was over 20 years ago that I asked for that get together and it was the refusal that hurt more than what I might have found out!

Faith m' dear Faith!

Love
Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hopalong on August 15, 2007, 12:28:34 AM: You got it, Izz.

I got faith in you.

love
Hops
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 15, 2007, 09:17:58 AM: Dear Izzy,

Please pardon my ignorance...

are you wanting to unravel how your siblings saw you at each phase or episode which increased your burden of shame?

One thing that really registers with me about all this is that it is not necessary to sift through for the purpose of blaming anyone...
including our selves.
Thank you for that!

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 15, 2007, 01:18:23 PM: Hi Hope,
I am not looking to blame anyone.
At 15 I knew somerthing was wrong with me. no therapist was helping.
It was about 20 years ago that I thought a get together of the siblings might help---their spouses were not around when we were growiing up.
No meeting
I was still trying to analyze me, especially after the grave error of hooking up with a Psychopath, 9 years ago and moved away from everyone, 2000 miles, to discover he was a P.
After 4 years I left and went on a extra long search to find out what was wrong. I finally figured it out, and went to a therpist and told her.

She agreed when she questioned me about what happened in all phases of my life. and said it began when I was very young, but each trauma that followed just made me worse--more disconnected, therefore harder to reconnect. (That is where ithe topic veered off course.)

This post began by mentioning some very small steps forward toward trying to feel an emotion rather than think it.
so maybe itisnottoolate.

Love Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 15, 2007, 01:38:21 PM: Hi Izzy,

I believe you that you are not looking to blame anyone. I never thought that you were.
I did think that you may be very angry... maybe even with yourself.
But now I even believe myself that I am not looking to blame anyone... and I don't feel angry.
That is progress, in my opinion :)

That's what impressed me so much last night... and yet today... because as I sort through these things, I want to be so cautious to not fall into any traps of unforgiveness, because alot of corruption sprouts off of those bitter roots.

I understand what you're saying... at 15, after attending a wedding, you saw yourself as someone who would not have that love and commitment available to her. Something was wrong - not with the world around you, but with you personally, as you saw it.
If I'm correct about your assumptions, do you see now - how that was a lie?
You were not the "wrong" one.

Iz, I left everyone, also... 7 years ago. Moved 1,000 miles away after hooking up with NPD only to discover that he was a malicious fraud.
After 3 years, he left (courtesy of the sheriff's dept.) and my family (with my brother as spokesperson) invited me to return to their area to be near people who would care for me. hah. No thank you. It was most definitely too late for that. From one fraud back to another?

I see your progression... and mine. From one trauma to another, each reinforcing the disconnect. The only thing is, what I disconnected from was the illusion that I was ever feeling anything in the first place. At least that's how it seems. How's that for a veer?? :)

I am pretty sure itisnottoolate.
I feel hopeful.
How do you feel? :|

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 15, 2007, 02:20:48 PM: The only thing is, what I disconnected from was the illusion that I was ever feeling anything in the first place.

It's too early here.

Does that mean you were having real feelings all along and didn't know it?
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 15, 2007, 03:29:31 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on August 15, 2007, 02:20:48 PM
The only thing is, what I disconnected from was the illusion that I was ever feeling anything in the first place.

It's too early here.

Does that mean you were having real feelings all along and didn't know it?

No, I don't think so, Izzy.
What I mean is,
I don't think I had any idea how genuine emotions would feel. Or how genuine feelings would emote... lol. I didn't even understand the difference between feelings and emotions, although I know I've read all this before.
Anyhow, there was no example to follow but what was in front of me in the home (zippo), and because shyness prohibited the sharing of any feelings, the feelings just got stuffed and left behind.
It's very difficult to express.

I thought that I loved my parents, but now I see (i think) that was not genuine love at all - it was a codependent sort of need that kept me enmeshed with them. More of a childish desperation, looking for them to give me my identity.

I thought that I loved my kids' dad, but now I see that was also a codependent, needy sort of symbiotic rubbish (see above).

Now I know that I genuinely love my kids, but I can't say whether I acted out of that love in the past or simply out a trained response, although I did do alot of things with and for my children which I did NOT learn from my mother, so there must have been some feelings and intuitions at work, but I was mainly unaware of them.
However it was, I only just recognized how real love for them feels (and evidences itself!) when I went to be with my oldest daughter last month as she was hospitalized. Till then, I had not "felt" love for her in ages, because she is also very, very N'ish and because she was at the hub of a great deal of pain in our family for many years.

And finally, I'm learning through relationship with my husband now, that I was never before given the sort of unconditional, loving acceptance which I'd now define as genuine love. Knowing that, I question everything that's gone before and "feel" like it was all an illusion, with me in robot-mode and not really expressing a single honest feeling as emotion, except maybe to my kids. I know, it's very confusing. Sorry.

Here are some of the resources to which I'm appealing now in order to try to understand this myself, Iz...

http://www.hr.ucdavis.edu/ASAP/Articles/Feelings (http://www.hr.ucdavis.edu/ASAP/Articles/Feelings)
It's about "Feelings vs. Learned Reactions"

and this one... about the difference between feelings and emotions...
http://www.selfhelprecovery.com/phaseii.htm (http://www.selfhelprecovery.com/phaseii.htm)
I dunno about some of it, but this makes sense to me:

"There needs to be a clear cut understanding between the differences of Emotions and Feelings. Feelings that are generated as a result of an event or situation is a natural reaction to protect our self, our natural self esteem our boundaries. If you here a rumor that your company may start layoffs and your job may be in jeopardy and you feel some anxiety and fear, this is natural. What you will eventually discover in this program,the right approach would be to actually allow your self to feel what you are feeling and when the feeling clears ( integrates ) you will have a better insight as to what action to take.
On the other hand if the same situation generates a massive anxiety attack with an overwhelming negative inner dialog…those catastrophic thoughts then you are dealing with an emotion that is attempting to clear. The process as you also will see is to allow your self to feel the pain to clear it…but normally at this level it will take time to completely clear. An emotion is a major repressed feeling(s) from the past stored in our body.
A different way to compare the two is an Emotion would be a Hurricane Katrina, a normal Feeling would be a Warm spring shower with a mild wind…"

And then there's this, of which you may already be aware (seems like you are), but I wasn't... and maybe it would help? http://www.outsmartyourbrain.com/content/view/98/56/

"The more we teach self-control and the suppression of feelings, the more we impede the positive feelings, including happiness and passion, restricting instead of increasing our mental abilities.
BRAIN TIP: The good news is that we can reteach our brains to feel. We can train the brain to “fire-up” and widen the neurotransmitters in the emotional centers through interpersonal activities, complex physical exercise and specific mental and spiritual pursuits.
It takes becoming conscious to our world in the present moment. We have to take the time to acknowledge subtle emotional reactions in the body, such as muscle tenseness, changes in breathing, throat clogging, urges to disconnect and surges in adrenalin. We also have to take the time in our busy days to stop and REALLY listen to those around us, listening for what they are feeling and what they are probably not saying. What is it that they really want and need from us?"

So... it's about creating space for listening, to ourselves and to others.

This is all news to me, so I have alot of study and work and practice to do.
Till then, I'm pretty much spittin into the wind... but maybe some of this will help you, too. I hope so. Sorry too that this is so long, but it's all so tied in together, that I didn't know how else to try to explain.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 15, 2007, 07:00:59 PM: Hope,

I cannot read this any other way now than you and I are/were the same ..but I said it in fewer words.

xx
Izzy

EDIT: OOPS--except you can cry!!

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 15, 2007, 08:17:24 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on August 15, 2007, 07:00:59 PM
Hope,

I cannot read this any other way now than you and I are/were the same ..but I said it in fewer words.

xx
Izzy

EDIT: OOPS--except you can cry!!

Izzy :) Thank you. Maybe some day I will learn to be concise, but that's not today.

Yes, I can cry, but maybe not for the right reasons. I'm not sure yet.
Usually crying feels like being sorry for myself and that may not be right reasons... and yet, maybe it's okay.
Also, maybe I punish myself afterwards by going stoic again. Not sure about that either.

Have you fooled your brain yet? 8)

I like your "Hours" sign... need one in my kitchen.
Wanted to tell you yesterday, I enjoy all of your picture attachments. They brighten up my day.
You brighten up my day even.

Reading Iphi's post about cerebral N brought out feelings. Helpless ones. Is helpless a feeling? I don't know.

Love,
Hugs, too,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: teartracks on August 16, 2007, 12:44:24 AM: Hi Iz,

Wantng to ask a question. When you say you don't feel, does that mean the same as I don't experience emotion? Do you think they are the same? What do others here think? Are feelings and emotions the same thing?

tt
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 16, 2007, 01:30:00 PM: Hi tt
I think I have no feelings, as I don't cry. I don't become angry, etc. I sense that I know which feeling it ought to be, but only in my head/mind.

Hope sent those links, 2 posts back, and I read this, which I found very, very interesting:

Feelings are the only means that an innocent infant and a toddler have to communicate with..When the feelings are expressed in the form of crying and or anger and a parent or guardian stops the child from completely expressing these feelings, the feelings become repressed, stuffed into our body forming Emotions. Emotions are feelings that have been suppressed/repressed in our very early years, primarily during our infancy and toddler years.

A major inner turmoil forms early when we are taught by our adult caregivers actions not to allow our self to feel our feelings

I think that answers our question because that very thought is expressed on two links, and I am just surprised that this has not come to light before.

I just got into those links last night and have not absorbed them re me.
Love
Izzy

EDIT

I suspect I am emotionally constipated
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: teartracks on August 16, 2007, 07:18:14 PM: Hi Iz,

My heart aches at the many children who are not given expression because their crying or innocent behaviors are stiffled by ignorant caregivers.

Growing up we were required to be emotional flatliners. It all hit me in later life (the constipated emotions that had been held back :D) and just about killed me.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

tt
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 16, 2007, 08:47:39 PM: Dear Izzy,

I still need to finish reading all the info at those links. Alot of "stuff" is coming out and coming together, but not in such a way that I can express it in words... yet. Especially not concisely :P :D

These quotes you posted are amazing:

Feelings are the only means that an innocent infant and a toddler have to communicate with..When the feelings are expressed in the form of crying and or anger and a parent or guardian stops the child from completely expressing these feelings, the feelings become repressed, stuffed into our body forming Emotions. Emotions are feelings that have been suppressed/repressed in our very early years, primarily during our infancy and toddler years.

Iz, my mother has always told her version - that I never cried as a baby.
I think she's lying.

A major inner turmoil forms early when we are taught by our adult caregivers actions not to allow our self to feel our feelings

Indeed!! By their actions. Oh boy. Much to absorb.

Kiddo at band practice again and she'd probably appreciate a ride home. Gotta zoom.

Big hugs and thanks, Izzy.

Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Overcomer on August 16, 2007, 09:10:05 PM: Iz: Sometimes I think we "put our guard up." Build those walls - high!! Protect yourself from your daughter's rage. Protect yourself from being hurt. But I am optimistic to know that you had a heart flutter with that guy....at least you can FEEL.

Do you want to cry? Or are you afraid if you cry, you will not stop? The other day I watched The Green Mile with Tom Hanks. THAT will make you cry. Try it...

Sometimes I just cry out to God and let myself cry. Why? Why? Why?? Why did you get in that accident? Why did you get involved with psycho...? Why doesn't your daughter understand you and love you?? WE love you. You are a wonderful, smart woman......what would we do without you? Especially when it comes to computers?? Now THAT is something to be happy about. I do not know too many 68 year old women who rock on the computer like you!!
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 16, 2007, 09:32:11 PM: Right Hope,

I've spent some time on one site but am not absorbing it all, yet I see there is a wealth of information to deal with when I have the peace and quiet to do so. Thank you SO much for those links!!!! will go to link 3 next as it, whehn I peeked, is talking the same as link two,

Thank YOU Hope

Hi OC

What you said at first, right! The Green Mile I've watched twice in maybe 5 years-----------I can see why---but no tears from me. I used to love having a movie send me into tears. I watched Madame X in the hospital in 1969 and I cried for a long time---for her finding out her own son, a lawyer, was defending her and she hadn't seen him for many, many years and he thought his mom was dead, yet felt a connection to Mme X...............................of course I was freshly parted from my daughter.

Well I love me and I see my talents, even to the computer savvy at 68, and my daughter doesn't ever give me a compliment. It's as though I am being punished by her! But lately have been simple comments about a game we were playing---but now she has stopped for a few weeks.--gave up and won't admit it? I'm still trying when I have the time.

Her? That is a puzzle for me. Well just wait until I get it all together and remember and am Perfect---- :lol: :lol:

Thanks OC

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 16, 2007, 10:05:27 PM: Iz,

I am too drippy to absorb much now. Oversaturated. Kidlings return to school tomorrow and I hope to drip dry. :)

Kelly,

The Green Mile is one of my favorite movies.

Love to you both,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 02:01:19 PM: Hi

To put together some of my posts here, I am more than ready to believe the feelings that were not allowed to be felt, or that I was to scared to express, is the emotional blockage.

When I was being ridiculed or taunted, I could have gone to my mother and told her. Now whether that is the extent needed, I don't know. Or even have yelled and screamed at my siblings, bercasue that was pat for the family anyway. That might have been enough. That would be the equal of speaking up for myself in later years, which I was too afraid to do.
==========================
1.)
To this day, his anger is so deeply buried that his surface is passive, sometimes like there's no life in him. He’s terrified of his own or anyone's anger. All his life's energy, his spirit, is buried deeply with his anger.

2.)
The pain of shame comes when you believe that something in life has damaged you, perhaps permanently and beyond repair. Maybe you were abused, ridiculed, or neglected as a child. Maybe your family hides some dark secret, or you have been involved in some activity you deem subhuman. Whatever the cause, you see yourself as defective and worthless, and every day for you is a "walk of shame."

The pain of shame forces you to fear being exposed for who you really are. Thus you do one of two things: you work desperately to be perfect, to be above scrutiny, or you withdraw from life and don't even try to measure up.

3.) Emotions are feelings that have been suppressed/repressed in our very early years, primarily during our infancy and toddler years.

A major inner turmoil forms early when we are taught by our adult caregivers actions not to allow our self to feel our feelings

4.) In the recovery process dealing with feelings IS NOT A " BLAME GAME". Even though the origin of emotional trauma can be traced to our early childhood as a result of actions of our caregivers the original " act " can be attributed to in most cases as “Innocent Ignorance".

"The responsible course of action is to take the responsibility ourselves to heal our emotional trauma and do not pass the abuse onto anyone else! Not even the alleged originator and especially do not dump it on innocent children!"
I am not blaming anyone, as we do the best we can with what we know and what to do with it. I know I made mistakes with my daughter, and I’m not sure the therapist can connect my head thoughts to all the emotions that are trapped inside.
========
My itching has stopped, almost.

I have to check back, perhaps in family emails, but when my brother first said he was coming, it was alone. I was okay! Then instead of his being alone for that 5 days of horseback riding, my sister announced she was coming. I'm sure that is when I said "Damn!" to myself.

I do know that from that time on I was "nervous" or some other thing and I have scratched for the last 8 months for sure, but before too. I didn't want to speak to soon, but it is 2 weeks tomorrow since they left and the itching abated on the Monday. My skin creams are clearing up the dry skin now--never seemed to work before.

Today I am writing my brother, as he begged me to, to tell him how I felt about the visit. Today is his 65th birthday so am writing today instead of tomorrow. I am sending the black text to him. it took me awhile to put together what I think he can understand , but I didn't mention my sister.

Any Opinions?

May I click Send?

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 18, 2007, 02:28:04 PM: Dear Izzy,

I wonder... why not send him the whole thing, and not just the part in black?

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 18, 2007, 02:48:42 PM: Iz...

To explain my last comment, I've made some great errors in trying to determine on someone else's behalf what I think he can understand. That begins a whole circle of internal thinking and dialogue which basically acts to keep anyone else out, from my experience.

Love again,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 02:55:35 PM: hi hope,

I cannot send the whole thing as in the long run I am saying that my sister was the fly in the ointment and made me itch and when she left it stopped.

Just the black part with hopes the underlining is understandable to him, plus we did talk here.

That email has been on my mind for 2 weeks, and I have NO idea about his reaction.

xx
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 18, 2007, 03:03:42 PM: okay, Izzy... I don't guess you wanna hear my buts :)

I guess that would be pretty bad to suggest that contact with your sister makes you itch.
hmm...

On the other hand, you did say that you'd itched for 8 months previously, so did you really say that your sister caused the itch while you were together?

oo
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 03:11:34 PM: I knew for 8 months that she was coming.............. and I know my mood changed when I heard that, I thought it would be my brother alone.

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 18, 2007, 03:19:35 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 03:11:34 PM
I knew for 8 months that she was coming.............. and I know my mood changed when I heard that, I thought it would be my brother alone.

ohh... I didn't realize you'd known all that time, Iz!

Personally, I don't feel that revealing the cause of the itch equates with blaming your sister, just reveals the degree of discomfort you have with exposure to someone who... has created harm in your life.

Do you have some thoughts in mind about what your brother's ideal response would be, Izzy? How would you like him to respond to the quotes in black?

If you're tired of my questions, please advise... I often don't know when to quit.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 03:31:38 PM: Yes, that long and I know that whatever came over me when I learned my sister was coming, happened with her announcement. I cannot remember now, and i wasn't in therapy then

I just want my brother to understand what I have said and try to have and idea why I am and have been the odd ball, the enigma, why I always asked so many questions, why I never cried at either parent's funeral--I'm sure it was noticed.

and

When have I ever had support from a family member???--never, really

Just when they get together, if my name comes up, I would like him to support me. I might not know about it, but I can dream, can't I? If/when he replies to my email, I might have an idea if what I sent was "greek to him".

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 18, 2007, 03:35:12 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 03:31:38 PM
Yes, that long and I know that whatever came over me when I learned my sister was coming, happened with her announcement. I cannot remember now, and i wasn't in therapy then

I just want my brother to understand what I have said and try to have and idea why I am and have been the odd ball, the enigma, why I always asked so many questions, why I never cried at either parent's funeral--I'm sure it was noticed.

and

When have I ever had support from a family member???--never, really

Just when they get together, if my name comes up, I would like him to support me. I might not know about it, but I can dream, can't I? If/when he replies to my email, I might have an idea if what I sent was "greek to him".

Love
Izzy

((((((((Izzy))))))) There is so much feeling in what you've written here... especially within the "I can dream..."

I am praying that your brother speaks Greek.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 04:19:19 PM: Hope

I feel as though I have done all I can do when it comes to family, getting it straight,

and

my daughter and me.
My grandson called me, we talked for an hour but he is the almost 21 yr, old who lives with his N father-- my daughter's ex.
He was involved in a tragedy and there is a book out now, see below

He said he would send me an autographed copy (Chipman) but that is a promise from an upcoming N---I ordered one from amazon anyway.

all I have left now is my therapy and see what happens there!

Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 18, 2007, 05:22:05 PM: Dear Izzy,

I've been reminded of the many times that my "feelings" have led me to try to work on relationships long beyond the point where there was any rhyme or reason.

You've opened the door to communication and that is the very best gift you could offer anyone... access to yourself, your inner world, at your discretion, if the other is interested.

My daughters 25 and 20 sometimes seem so very N'ish to me, but for one at least (the younger one), I figure it goes with the age.
I heard today that she has a computer now and has contacted daughter 16 who is here at home, to talk on messenger... and I felt dread
... that she could lead her teen sister into that spin-cycle, as she herself was led by her oldest sister. I want the cycle to stop, but can't control what will be each one's own choice. Hard reality doesn't over-rule the feelings though.

I remember reading about your grandson's book on another thread. Maybe he is an enigma, too.

From one odd-ball to another, I feel that either appearances rule in some folks' lives... or they don't, and therein lies the oddity.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 18, 2007, 08:40:21 PM: hi Hope,
Feelings-AHA--if only I had shouted "stop it!" or "shut up!" or some such thing at the siblings, I wouldn't have those feelings plunge inward to become a stuck emotion.

I just asserted myself today, a new post, and feel good about it.

I have been more assertive for the past 2-3 years and it is a great feeling to know my thoughts were spoken out loud---I notice then that the incident/whateveer fades away and doesn't stick in my craw.

Yes I have the doors open for daughter and my family.

Your girls will make choices, as did mine, and choices /actions have consequences. Gad I wish mine had listened to me!

take care
love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 26, 2007, 07:58:01 PM: Here I am again on this thread about my feelings!

After my sis and bro left on Aug 5 (3 weeks ago) there have been no emails from them. I am bewildered. Maybe I shot off my mouth too much?

I wrote (same email to both) an email to them today with some wondering in it!

I again mentioned my car 'snorting' that wasn't fixed with the first trip, sent sis some pics that I had aLREADY SENT TO BRO--SO HE HAD SEEN THEM.

I TALKED VERY BRIEFLY ABOUT THE bOOK ON MY GRANDSON'S NEAR FATAL ADVERNTURE, BUT DID NOT GO INTO ANY DETAIL.....AS MY SO-CALLED 'FRIEND' DID, TRYING TO TELL ME EVERYTHING BEFORE i HAD THE BOOK)

oh darm I hate Caps--sorry!

I had written the letter to my bro, as he asked, that I write to tell him how I felt about our visit, and I did.

I wonder if I was supposed to say something else????? Like "I love you all and I want to come back so you can all ignore me in Ontario rather than BC.!! Lordy I can be sarcastic. Ah well!

Oh i loved that description of me on my other thread about daughter marrying an N.

Quote
By the way Izzy, when I think of you, I think of a saucy intelligent creature who is ageless, timeless, and unique!

Lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Loved it changing and tt agreeing

You know that is me and I am SO surprised to see it in writing from someone I have never met. Yes I can be saucy/sarcasticly funny, I have a high IQ/ I can post a pic of me 20 years ago, in the same sweater-lol--(elbows have holes) and I will look the same as today/and I am unique-------------however we are all unique but I would like to be the uniquest unique. KC's 3rd birthday in 1989 and I took a self portrait when I was 67 in 2006. Time to get on with age, wrinkle, turn gray and be old.

(http://www.copwt.ca/oldsweater2.jpg) (http://www.slrkelowna.ca/1989.jpg)

I am asserting myself, have identified a couple of feelings while my therpist has been away. I put that is sis/bro email, as we had talked about my problem here, etc.

my family is not into this "crap" that we are into. It makes me mad. I've been trying to tell them ALL MY LIFE.

I was so fast I must have hit Post. Maybe that is God's interference telling me to STOP

love Izzy

added another of the same sweater and a thyroid scar!!! LOL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1999

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 26, 2007, 09:19:40 PM: Dear Izzy,

I'd be bewildered, too... and I think it's very good that you wrote with some wondering. That's an honest, caring, inquisitive step to take, seems to me. I used to tend to hypothesize all sorts of things when faced with a lack of what I consider reasonable response, but just coming straight out and asking, "what's up?!!?" is alot less painful and aggravating.

Well, Miss Spicy Saucy... if you plan to wrinkle enough to look your age, you'd best get at it... cuz you got alotta catchin up to do 8)

I found this today... you might be interested, I dunno http://www.christiansoulcare.com/increaseiq.html (http://www.christiansoulcare.com/increaseiq.html)
... about increasing emotional "iq". Just more food for thought.

Love and hugs,
Hope

P.S. Iz... I just read another one, same site http://www.christiansoulcare.com/reactiveorresponsive.htm (http://www.christiansoulcare.com/reactiveorresponsive.htm)

This really got me: Interestingly, men and women who appear to be very calm or rational can also can be reactive, overly sensitive, moody, and unstable. Sometimes those with an apparent "cool head" are actually just overly detached from their feelings. When they get into an emotionally difficult situation they too are liable to "lose it." Being calm, cool, and collected is their defense against emotional reactivity. They've tried to "cut off" their emotional side.

And note... sarcasm is listed as one of the signs of emotional reactivity.

Wee..... 'nuff readin for me for today! xxoo
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: changing on August 26, 2007, 09:41:44 PM: WOW Izzy!

Is there some sort of Dorian Gray business going on here? Regardless , send me the secret recipe posthaste, before the onset of the next wrinkle sag or bag, I beseech you!

Expectantly,

Changing

P.S. The same sweater under the same painting? Outrageous! Oh, one thing more- no wonder your sibs are jealous!

Love,

C.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 26, 2007, 11:07:02 PM: hi hope
Right now I am trying to see if I am smarter than a 5th Grader---- I love it!--Brings back memories of things I never learned --lol
............but I'm not bad after all this time... when Geography is different--renaming countries etc.--math has changed--- and it's all American and I am Canadian!

Yep. My recipe, pay attention changing, is to smoke a pack a day for almost 50 years, but if no one tells you that you will wrinkle, you won't (remember I grew up knowing nothing, because I was told nothing) I haven't used soap on my face for about 40 years, and I haven't taken my makeup off at night for over 45 years. Now if I were to start doing things right, my face might fall down to my knees.

will check out those links later. Thank you!

so changing

Did you read the first, to Hope? my recipe?

Well, it's nice to look younger when I am still scrambling for a life. If I were really old and fat and bald, folks might wonder why I was bothering! If the truth be known, it's the genes. All 5 of us are over 65 and don't look it!

Just threw those in for conversation, but I still think that bro and sis ought to have written by now. Therefore my wondering/i] email of today!

Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 27, 2007, 09:00:31 AM: lol... Izzy, I've seen that "smarter than a 5th grader" deal... and failed. Oy vey. My son's in 6th now, so we're learning together.

Also, I'm convinced that the soap manufacturers are in cahoots with the moisturizer makers... use one, need lots of the other!

Yer gorgeous, Iz.

And... I'm thinkin about people who are not self-reflective... and how they'd have a hard time writing in response to an unveiling sort of letter...
and I'm thinkin it's a good sign, in a way. (Sorry, I can't keep resisting the urge to think.)
To me, it shows that they are aware enough to know that a simple little "great to hear from you - howdee do" just won't cut the mustard, at this point.
And it is exactly at this point, I realize, where I used to get to feeling guilty... for having made someone else uncomfortable enough to withdraw. Why? Isn't it right to hope that there are some people in this life who should know us, inside and out? Doesn't make us "bad" if they have no desire for that knowledge or if they don't know how to respond to us. Doesn't make them "bad", either, does it? Just different? Just... unavailable?

You said that your family isn't "into this crap " that we do... and that makes you mad.
Me, too. It's like we have to dissociate from our own feelings just in order to try to communicate with them without putting them off... or scaring the daylights out of them.
It's like asking them to unlock the door to those feelings... by sharing... or at least to knock on the door, by asking...
but they won't.

Beneath that "mad" is alot of hurt... why don't they want to know us?
Like for me, if I share any of what I've learned with my parents, I know it'll stir plenty of defensive reactions, and I don't want to hurt them. I don't know how to share myself without putting them on the spot and giving the impression that I'm blaming them.
But then I realize that everyone is "into" something... just a different form of "crap".
My dad drinks and denies... that's his crap.
My mother controls and perfects... that's her crap.
They each think their particular crap is superior crap, because it's harmless... heh... and righteous. Oh yeah, righteous.
Now that is crap.
Anyhow, I'm still trying to figure out why I'd write, at this point... Dad is 87 today. I sent a card, no note.

Thanks for sharing your crap with me, Iz... it's the real deal.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 27, 2007, 01:42:12 PM: Hi Hope

I just loved your response because I feel the same way. I am also glad that you like to think: don't stop or you're in trouble!

Quote
Yer gorgeous, Iz.

Thank you; now think carefully. My response is usually "It's all done with smoke and mirrors". Get it?

In the emails I just sent to bro and sis, I asked if I had said anything they didn't like. for instance, I needed an example of the awful taunting when I was say about 10. I knew both of them would not know what it all meant, but that they were coerced into taunting me, at ages 8 and 6.

It was becasue I was changing clothes one day and I heard scuffling outside my door. In the old farm house the doors were warped, so there were 'peepholes'. After that all 4 siblings, the other 2 being older 12 and 14 were calling me 'baldy'. I had no idea why. None at at all.

When I mentioned to them here , they had no memory of it, none at all and I said, "I expected not, as I know they couldn't have begun the taunting, that they were too young and that they were just told what to say". Here comes baldy. Hey baldy. etc.

Well the reason was that at 10 I had no pubic hair. I never even knew about it. I expected my N sister had been peeping and began this. I was bewildered, felt stupid, felt left out, felt there was something wrong with me, but what?

Now I recall an incident. I am wondering if my mother heard these taunts and knew my discomfort etc, becasue that year she had had a hysterectomy. She was 40 and we shared a bedroom. She asked me if I wanted to see her scar.--which meant "yes you do so come here". So from the other side of the bed I crawled over & peered over her shoulder, saw her boobs, her scar and a patch of dark hair.

OH MY, says I!!!! Is that what my problem is? I need hair down there? Well I bought a huge magnifying glass (just kidding) and checked my crotch every day for about 2 years and finally I found one hair-- I was no no longer BALD! yippee(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/WHITEBAL.GIF) yippee!
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/clapping.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/jumpnbug.gif)(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/clapping.gif)

If that was my mother's way of telling me what would happen to my body--well it worked but was damned dumb!! and I do not remember when the taunting stopped.
SO!
Being that i told sis ans bro and they were a part of it, they wouldn't NOT answer my mail when I had already excused them from wrongdoing---right?

Funny that it took so long to not be bald and now everyone is shaving it off!

Love Izzy

The only writing I would do at this point would be to either of them, if I had breakthrough after breakthrough, as otherwise they understand, maybe, so why beat them over the head with it?

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 27, 2007, 02:33:01 PM: Dear Izzy,

"Smoke and mirrors" ... as in, an illusion? Are you doctoring your photos, Ma'am? :)
When I think smoke and mirrors, I think N... so that's my own mental block.

I'm trying to imagine where you were...
I grew up pretty much as an only child, since my brother married and left when I was 10.... but in my mind, he never missed an opportunity to tell me how he regretted my birth. I remember very, very little from his time in the home. The story goes: he prayed and prayed for a little sister... and then, finally, along I came... and he wished I hadn't.
I remember him mocking me for being undeveloped... small breasts.
He really seemed to enjoy commenting on that.
Once I'd had a couple children, he chose to repeatedly comment on my hips... but his opinion didn't bother me much anymore; I was okay with my figure by then, just wondered why he was so obsessed with it. He's the one whose weight has always been a problem... but this is old news. I knew what he was long before I heard of npd and simply ignored him.

Kids at school could be cruel, but they didn't gang up on me. I was younger than all the ones in my class, so they all developed first and that was quite obvious, common knowledge. Kinda makes you want to disappear... having it all be so clearly visible... but there wasn't a whole lot said, as I recall.
And yet I spent my entire childhood feeling bewildered, stupid, odd, and left out of the loop.

So I can only barely imagine that sort of taunting you had X4 siblings.
To have the younger ones not remember now... doesn't allow for closure, does it?
You've released them from accountability for the taunting, but have they shared any of their own memories and experiences? Maybe they feel that's what is expected and are reluctant to go there?
I don't know, Izzy... I freeze up just considering what might happen if I wrote to my brother and tried to address his past crap.

Your mother's scar... whew. Maybe that was her way of showing you how what you could expect... but quite the shock at 10, I'd think! What really gets me about it is that you knew then, you had no option... she asked whether you wanted to see it, but it was an order. That's the problem I see.
When it doesn't occur to a child to say "No!"... that is always a problem.

Iz, I have been very un-concise again. That's what happens when I sit down with coffee and oreos. It's the double-stuffing... activates the verbosity switch :P

I know what I would like, for the part of me that's in your shoes.
I would like to know whether the only sort of relationship these people find acceptable is the sort where you all "nod and smile" and forget the rest.
And I'd like to know how they have managed to process the past 60-odd years of life... because people are interesting! At least the ones willing to share.

Love,
Hope

P.S. Cool jitter-bug you got there :)
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hannah on August 27, 2007, 02:43:03 PM: Oh Izzy.

I relate to your experiences with an angry father. And being super-sensitive. I always felt that I must be from another planet I was so sensitive.

Good for you for hearing your own voice. : :wink:

Quote from: isittoolate on August 13, 2007, 05:30:30 PM
Hi all

For those who don't know, my feelings have been buried fo(all of my?) 68 years. Too many traumas beginning with my physically abusive father who raged incessantly, right on through the car crash, the estrangement and living with a psychopath. I left him 5 years ago and am 'almost' through talkiing about Ns and Ps. I want to pay attention to my progress and ability to 'voice' myself.

One day I saw a little 3-legged klitten in a TV commercial about abused and injured aniimals. I got a lump in my throat, but didn't cry (I haven't cried since 1993.)

I took my car to the fix-it shop and had a thumpity-thump thump attraction to the mechanic. ( Being that I am always attracted to the wrong man, I suspected those kind smiling eyes where the same as my psychopaths were, and hiding something. He was flirting and talked too much. He said he brought that service station back from near bankruptcy and was so happy to finally own his own business--misleading or a lie? I took my car in today and he is no longer there. The Real Owner is there.)

I had an adrenaline rush --first in a long time and I don't know if that is connected to feelings.

When I last cried in 1993, coincidentally it was my sister who came out here just recently who was the one who popped along that day. I couldn't stop crying. It was about my daughter, so sister well remembers and when I said,when they were here, that that was the last time I cried, she went bug-eyed and asked "REALLY??"

My therapist sees and senses progress but I think I need a jackhammer to get through. I was the super-sensitivve child of the 5 kids.

Love Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 27, 2007, 03:15:29 PM: Thank you Hannah

and this?
And being super-sensitive. I always felt that I must be from another planet I was so sensitive.

I sure relate to that. I really thought there was nothing right (human) with me and that gave way to imaginings of all nature for many years.

Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 27, 2007, 03:50:19 PM: Oh Hope

smoke and mirrors--- I smoked and didn't wrinkle and I sat in front of a mirror to apply my makeup and style my hair! I said that to a doctor once when he said I didn't look my age, but he got it right off!

Growing up can be very painful. Your brother sounds as though he made up his own taunts!!! Did you ever complain to your mother? I never did!
In Grade 5, I was 8. The only other girl was12, Shirley, and she had breasts. I heard the Grade 8 girls asking my oldest sister why I didn't have breasts like Shirley. I don't recall, or never heard, her reply, but I was mortified and felt alien!

I don't recall being picked on by any children except my sibs and I always felt on the outside looking in, the odd-ball, the black sheep.

Yes I always thought that weird of Mom to do what she did and I can only explain it to myself as I did to you..............that is was her way to let me know I woiuld have pubic hair. And saying No? I doubt it ever occurred to me to say NO to either parent. I never heard anyone do so, except for once.

I was 16, in grade 13 and studying for my final exams. My younger sister came in from doing the farm chores and she told Dad that she was no longer going to do them (She was supposed to...from age 8 until entering Grade 13) She had help from my brother (yes the two who were out here.) She and Dad had a fight (Mom was in the hospital ready to go into the wheelchair, age 47) Ruth got off from doing the chores and Dad went upstairs and cried. I was in the downstairs bedroom and his room was above it. I was angry with Ruth for making Dad cry..... I didn't know men were allowed to cry.

Yep we are all 65 and older and I have no idea "who they are" and vice versa, was why I wanted someone to know about me....in case the idea ever came up about my moving back to Ontario. I am staying here, and when the time comes that I am a better me, I will let my daughter know, but right now I cannot imagine ever seeing her again, either. I have no problem thinking that way, for now. I can also say that I don't know who their spouses are either. Odd! but when a teen, Ruth's now husband was a good friend of mine. We talked and talked a lot. Same age, and she told me that he said I was the smartest one in the family. He and I never speak now, other than "the initial greeting!

Get togethers were filled with reminiscing and laughter, but always about superficial things. I always thought of them as 'phony'

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 27, 2007, 06:11:07 PM: Izzy! I thought the smoking was a joke.. but now I get it! :)
Used to be, I'd pretend to get something, just so as not to feel so dumb.
I would just nod and smile and go along.
Feels good to just say no, I don't get it.

No, I never complained to my brother about his taunts. I would just laugh and ignore it. I never knew what to say. He was the mouth of the family and always got away with shooting it off as he pleased. He would go around referring to himself as "the star". I was the mouse. That's just how it was. Actually, it didn't seem strange to me... or wrong... at the time. In many ways, his talking just confirmed what I already thought of myself. I was that beanpole (I think you said awhile back, in another post)... a stick with 2 peas. My first man>> became my first husband, gave me a t-shirt he had special made for me... big joke - said "IBTC" - "Itty bitty titty committee". ha ha. I was used to it by then.

Years later, I think it was during the worst times with npd-ex, my mother said something to me like, "I guess you just must not have thought much of yourself."
Gee, she's insightful.
I never said "no" either... except when I said no to music lessons at 13-14.
Have you ever read Dr. Grossman's essay called "Voicelessness: A Personal Account"? I relate alot to that. That was when my mother cut me off cold, I think... and I feel that, to her, I died then. Now she digs me up when she wants a shot of supply.

That must have been shocking to hear your dad cry, Iz.
How did Ruth rate, getting out of the chores 2 years early?
I wonder whether she was jealous of you... or just taking advantage of your mom being out of the picture then... or... I don't know what else. She sure exercised some power at that moment. More than I ever would have dared... but then again, I got alot more daring my last 2 years at home, from 19-20.
Just a late bloomer, I guess.

Are you afraid that they'll try to get you back to Ontario, Izzy? So you're cutting that notion off at the pass? Do you think they would ask you to do that... just out of... convention? For appearances? I grew up in the Detroit area. A drive across the bridge or through the tunnel to Windsor was a frequent Sunday afternoon outing.
They tried to get me to go back "home" after npd-ex. I said, this is my home.
I know that was just for appearances.

I understand phony. I never have fit in with those get-togethers. Always on the fringe...
It's said that Peace lies in acceptance.
I guess I've rejected their rejection of me.
They started it.

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: reallyME on August 27, 2007, 09:28:45 PM: I took the evaluation on myself. I am just over the line of being a highly sensitive person, mostly because of my problem with loud noises, chaos around me, too much going on at once.

~Laura
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 27, 2007, 09:39:07 PM: Laura,

Those are the most troublesome areas for me... the rest I can tune out, at least for a time, but still don't deal well with trying to learn, read, concentrate, whatever.. when there's lots of commotion around. I'm pretty much making peace with the fact that's just how I am... and knowing that helps to work around it and not let it build to the point of discomfort. .

Hope

P.S. It's still taking me awhile to sort between the stuff which is really a part of my own personality and the stuff my mother imprinted on me.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Poppyseed on August 27, 2007, 11:01:20 PM: Hey Izzy,

I know I am kinda jumping into the middle of this great conversation-- hope you don't mind. :) I just had a question for you. You have said frequently in lots of your posts that you are emotionally closed off. But I have to say that you seem very expressive to me. I guess I am wondering what exactly your T thinks you need to express. Is it ok to feel sadness and not cry? Do you always have to show an outward expression to be in touch with your feelings? I do think that crying is healthy and on occasion I enjoy my moments with the kleenex. But frankly, you seem seasoned and mellowed and tempered and matured to me. You seem like you have learned a great deal and you seem to have settled into a place of wisdom. Maybe your emotions don't need to swing like a younger individual, such as I who haven't had as much life experience. Do you feel empathy for others? Well, I certainly see you reaching out to people on the board. I guess I am trying to understand what your T is trying to inspire in you? Seems to me that emotions are there to tell us things and then we deal with them and let them go. I see you use humor to deal with stuff. I wish I had that talent. I am afraid I deal with my emotions in more dramatic ways. (this is coming from someone who is always in tune with emotions. Can't turn them off some days! :)). Isn't humor a healthy way of dealing?? Anyway, I guess I see you as an individual and I wonder if you restated your situation differently it would make a difference. Maybe reframing it by saying that you do have emotions and sometimes recognize them instead of always saying that you don't have any idea of them. I don't know Izzy, I may be shooting in the dark here. Just think you are great. That's all.

--- love and goo,
Poppyseed

PS. Hope I am not asking to personal of questions. You don't have to answer if you are uncomfortable.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 27, 2007, 11:21:50 PM: Hey, reallyME and Hope

I tested 88 but I never saw a question about loud noises, so add another 11 on mine= 99

Am I senstive or am I laid right back, like coooooooool dudettes!?

Maybe I did the wrong test?

ah well
later
love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 27, 2007, 11:53:48 PM: well Hope

I've been playing my word game--it is addictive.

I will try to be succinct if I happen to crack one of my home-made jokes.

Oh here is one. People often ask me why I don't use my crutches anymore and I say because I am older now and weaker and I might fall and break my hip and end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life!!!

I heard a joke when I was 12 and I never got it and was too afraid to ask and I finally got it after I had sex---good sex! (Don't ask my computer will blow!)

We die 1000 times when we are with toxic people, and when we have children. I don't know how my sister "got off" but it was likely because my brother was now old enough and he and Dad could do the chores.

Well Dad really messed with the girls minds cause when all this happened, he changed from mixed farming, dairy and grain, to raising beef cattle----that is a gentleman farmer's way, very little work, and he made more money at it! Ah. Well. Such is life!

I'll have to check Dr. G's site to see if I read that article. I don't remember but I thought I read them all.

I used to be but I am no longer afraid of my siblings.!! I believe I am quite capable of standing my ground if necessary! That being the case, they would not want me back in Ontario.
(http://www.slrkelowna.ca/haha.gif)

I KNEW you were familiar. I saw you on the Ambassador Bridge one day!!!! What a small world!!

Do you read a lot? I do, about a book a week, but the one I'm on is located in Vietnam and it takes me longer as I stopped to 'sound out' the names of people, cities, tunnels, rat holes, etc. I wouldn't have borrowed it from the Library, except it is written by Nelson DeMille.

I read The Obsession last Tuesday in 6-7 hours, during the day. -------------the one re grandson.

Tally-Ho
Mon Ami
Don't let the rain get to the rhubarb!
Izzy
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 12:28:46 AM: hiya Poppyseed,

Sounds like you are enjoying yourself? Glad you jumped in. The water's fine! This turned into something not all that gruesome after all.

No I cannot recognize my feelings and I believe that when I do I will the be able to respond as I ought, and the situation is over. If I have a feeling and I don't recognize it, it gets pushed inside of me with all the others, from growing up.

However, I am a robot. A robot can do what I do---------------- that is an exaggeration but it seems that way at times. Yes I am expressing myself, but with facts, not feelings, or does that not make sense?

I have been in therapy, this time, ----------oh I go tomorrow. I had better start writing the cheque. It takes a while for me to do it and SIGN it!....to over $2300.00, can't remember when I last looked. She is good and I now have had/recognized about 7 things that I felt and I dealt with them and happily the result just flew away. No room at the Inn--side!

I think it is good to cry and I haven't yet, but have had --count 'em--1----2----3 lumps in my throat since I began with her-WHEEEEE getting there!--lumps sure, but no tears or crying.

You have a point, about my age, and yes I feel empathy, especially for my daughter. We have so almost lived parallel lives, that I know what she endured, yet we are estranged----to a point for now--- and I can put my feet in her shoes, except she is in Ontario too--and my grandchildren.
My Therapist is trying to reconnect me to all the suppressed emotions that are inside, as they are repressed feelings. I have been shoving them there for most of my life, like maybe since I was born, or brought home, or first cried at home.....

Humour can be a healthy way of dealing with things, and I've hidden behind it since in my teens, but I hope I never lose it, if I get reconnected. I think if you find an ordinary person who has an odd, dry wit (I'm told that's me, too) then you might know therein lies some hurt. Most comedians are troubled people, so I've heard.

Thank you for thinking I'm great. Well this is me in a good mood, no bones to pick with anyone and not concerned, as I have a therapit to worry for me. haha. And as well, I am older, wiser, "mellowed and tempered", I guess, and everything I do is just what i do, from habit, without laughing or crying or getting angry.

I know therapy is good for me, but I cannot tell yet how far I have come. Therapist has been on vacation for 2 weeks. I'll be surprising her tomorrow.

Okay

Off to write the cheque Hmmmmmmmmmmm That ought to be making me cry every week

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Poppyseed on August 28, 2007, 12:37:59 AM: Well Izzy my dear,

I am sure you will find whatever it is you need to. Trying to understand. I am sure you will connect with that part of you that is put away. Wow! What a therapy bill. That SHOULD make you CRY!!! :lol: I am crying with you. Maybe we should sue our N's for reparations. They should pay all of our therapy bills, don't you think? :)

pops
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: JanetLG on August 28, 2007, 12:47:46 AM: Izzy,

That sure is some bill! It's enough to make anyone cry! Do you mind me asking you how many sessions that's for? I have no idea how much therapists charge outisde the UK, but here, it tends to be about thirty pounds ( around 65 US dollars - Don't know how much that is in Canadian dollars) for a 'psychiatrists hour' (i.e. 50 minutes).

All kinds of therapists tend to charge about the same - counsellors, psychologists, marraige guidance (even chiropractors and acupuncturists - it's as if they've all got some kind of 'pact'!).

The only time I've paid more than that was for a 'private' (non-NHS) dermatologist - he charged 120 pounds (250 US dollars) for a half hour appointent, he was five minutes late, wasted five minutes checking how I would pay him at the end, and was totally useless! I went to a homeopath after that, and was completely cured of eczema in a month! :shock:

Janet
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 01:19:13 AM: Hi Pops,

I wrote the cheque and didn't cry. You're crying for me? Isn't that sweet of you. I have a host of people to sue, not just the N from here---my daughter's N as well and so on...............................

I'll find something I like--will keep trying, like shopping for a dress, and something will fiinally fit

hi Janet

It is a total of $2438.00 = 23 visits for the 50 minute hour, = $2300.00 plus Good and Service Tax, @6%= $138.

I am spending my daughter's inheritance! That is in Canadian Dollars. The exchange rate is .9509, as of today

and UK with USD is .4723

http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/today.html (http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/today.html) I googled for this. It's still the 27th here.

I have a few more benefits since I am a senior citizen, but THERAPY is not on the list.

See you
xx
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: JanetLG on August 28, 2007, 04:38:57 AM: Izzy,

Blimey, that's expensive!

They'd better be good, for that money! :shock:

Janet
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 28, 2007, 09:25:38 AM: Dear Izzy,

"Oh here is one. People often ask me why I don't use my crutches anymore and I say because I am older now and weaker and I might fall and break my hip and end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life!!!"
I get this one! :D

Seems like I can be succinct when I'm mad or... when I'm strictly in my head and not trying to feel.

We must have died at least 100 million times through this life... feels like it. The truth is a great anti-venom... inoculation against toxic folks.

This is freaky to me: "Well Dad really messed with the girls minds cause when all this happened, he changed from mixed farming, dairy and grain, to raising beef cattle----that is a gentleman farmer's way, very little work, and he made more money at it! Ah. Well. Such is life!"

When it was no longer woman's work, he saw the light? Then some creative thinking came into play. When it was slave labor to be delegated, why think creatively? Oh, the curse of thinking.

I do still have fear of my family... fear that I could lose myself in their shuffle.

Yup, that was me driving across the Ambassador with a blue-eyed siberian husky in the back of my pick-up. I waved!

I used to read alot... just began getting back into it this summer. I read very fast, but can get obsessive once beginning a book... and right now, I can't afford to be obsessive about anything. Too much work to be done.
As a little girl, I escaped into books. Can't afford to escape at the moment.
I've been typing up a Bible teaching message about leaving Egypt for Canaan-land... partly because typing it makes it stick in my mind and partly because I am thinking of sending it to my parents, to show them where I've been.

The rhubarb dried up in the August heat-wave. Does rain turn the stems brown?

I'm not sure which test either... the Highly Sensitive one? Still want to do a thread on that... some day. Sensitive dudettes can be cool, too!!

Iz, once it's sunk in, I'd love to hear about your therapy appt. today, if you want to share.

This post is evidence of how disjointed my attempts to be concise can become. Proof positive, that rambling suits me fine.

Much love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 02:50:53 PM: thanks Hope and CD

Will talk later, after therapy.

toodle-de-do!

xx
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 08:56:29 PM: hi there Hope and CB,
And you Janet and Poppyseed
Pulling up the rear is reallyME
That's as far back as I could read,

I made my therapist cry.

I first told her that my itching has stopped, and that it had when I saw her 3 weeks ago, but that was only two days after sis and bro left and I didn't want to jinx myself. She laughed. And truly there have been no itches since Aug 6..............I believe it was my sis that caused the stress.

Then I told her about the feelings I had recognized on my own and acted on them in a suitable way, to not have them go inward and fester. Plus I told her I could sense that THE big cry was imminent.

I choked up a twice when I was reading the book about my grandson's tragice adventure and she asked me which incidents made me choke up.

One was when daughter's Dimbo N had left his truck frozen in the driveway, likely 2-3-4-5 days and didn't try to get it out until he had to go to work his next shift.
Daughter was inside, March 1999, studying her Native studies, KC playing and Mags sleeping--the kids liked a lighted candle on the bed stand and Maggie's was burning. (They lived on candles and kerosene)

Dimbo N called daughter out to help him and she took the kids. She and N worked on the damned truck for quite some time then she heard something popping. She looked up and saw their cabin was on fire, smoke just belching out everywhere. She looked for the kids and couldn't see them Thinking they had gone back in, in that instant a part of her died All was lost but the children were safe outside out of sight.

My grandson was in the cold waters for a bit over 1½ hours holding onto his uncle who had died in the first 20 minutes. He saw a bird land on the two story high waves. It flew away and becomes an f*ing bird because it can fly but KC can't. He is cold, and thirsty.
He rides the waves up so high to the tip and falls back down into a watery grave before the next wave takes him up again. He spots another f*ing bird and his body has given up, his jaw is locking so he prays. He is only 17 and he prays for his family, he bargains with God, he tells God that Uncle Tom is a good man and to please let him in. KC prepares to die

He sees another huge bird, maybe an albatross, but it's gray He dips and rides the waves again, still hanging on to Uncle Tom. The bird is closer now. Funny looking bird. Down he goes again and up and sees a helicopter Pure unbridled joy washes over him-- then he went irrational: that he was dead, that the helicopter was for someone else, maybe they can't see me...

The helicopter grows bigger and bigger until it fills the sky above him It sounds like a huge bass guitar and the air pulses the surface of the water,
The side door slides open. Two heads poke out.
KC Maple no longer feels cold. He no longer feels tired or thirsty
KC Maple is going to live.

I made my therapist cry.

KC might have lasted only another 15 minutes. Someone screwed up the co-ordinates, his N father who never called the Coast Guard. He called his girl-friend and told her to look after it, so she writes down different co-ordinates, then another set from the Satellite phone company and the Search and Rescue were bambozzled, but on the long way out over the raging ocean, with nothiing in sight, Jakob saw a light. It flashed 3 times and stopped. They lock in the co-ordinates. Time was of the essence and no time to search 22 nautical miles, where the satellite phone put them. He decides it is a miracle and heads for the lights.

On the way they spot the debris and KC.

I suppose we all want the N from our life to pay in some way. I'm sure no one spotted Gus as an N, but he sure does not smell like a rose in this book. Think of all the people he knows who will read about his inability to support a family and keep them safe and secure and warm. He certainly was mis-guided to allow a 17-year old to cross the ocean in a boat that no one hailed as safe. Then he receives a Mayday call from his son and tells his girl-friend to look after it! OMG!!

My therapist was very interested that I recognized, after 13 years of those calls from that guy, finally, that the calls upset me and I said nothing, until this week.

I left her with a question and will also leave it with you.

After writing to my bro, as he asked and sis heard him, I received 4 phtos, 2 x but no message, from bro. I have heard nothing from sis. i wrote a "wondering" followup message, but....................?

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 28, 2007, 09:55:00 PM: Quote from: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 08:56:29 PM
I left her with a question and will also leave it with you.

After writing to my bro, as he asked and sis heard him, I received 4 phtos, 2 x but no message, from bro. I have heard nothing from sis. i wrote a "wondering" followup message, but....................?

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Izzy))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

How did you know that I like teal?

Too pooped to compute here, but this is a wonderfully awesome "report" and I just wondered whether you might re-phrase the question with which you're leaving all us'ns cuz I am not sure what you're asking? Thank you :)

Love and more hugs,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 10:11:23 PM: My brother asked me to write him in 2 weeks, after they left and llet him know how I felt about our 2 days together.

I wrote him on the 18th, his 65th birthday.

I have had no reply.

My sister who always emails, has not written me either, although I emailed her and sent picutres, in the first week.

I have had no reply.

Why did they come? To see if I am all right? To see where I live? To see if I can cook? (They loved my seafood and pasta salads.)

I've already said twice here that I just sent a 'wondering' email to them both, as to why I hadn't heard from them and received some pics of their horseback riding escpade. They were still in the camra and bro showed me only 4.
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 28, 2007, 10:32:10 PM: Dear Izzy,

So you are asking for suggestions as to why your brother and sister haven't written to you since the visit?
And you are asking for ideas about why they came in the first place?
Or are you asking how you should feel about the fact that they haven't written to you?
How do you feel about that, by the way? I would be annoyed... and scared, too.

Anyhow, I tend to answer questions which haven't even been asked, so just thought I'd best check this time.

Also, sometimes I think I'm being very direct only to discover that I've not been understood... so in this case, I would just come right out and ask them whether there's something holding them back from replying to you now... at least I think that's what I'd do.
Some people might ask whether their computers blew up or they broke their fingers or the cat ran away with the mouse,
but I think I'd just say, "Yanno, I'm sittin here waiting to hear back from you!!"

Love,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 10:50:15 PM: hi Hope,

Why did they come? To see if I am all right? To see where I live? To see if I can cook? (They loved my seafood and pasta salads.)

Maybe they love me? Maybe they don't?

Maybe just because their horseback riding ranch was near Calgary, and it was a short flight to fill 2 more days of the vacation?

I am only curious and will not pursue after that last 'wondering' whatchooupto note.

It's kind of what I was looking for---total break from the family-----so I can stay here and die in peace--- and I'm like KC seeing the helicopter--am I dead--- am I getting what I've always wanted? but how did it happen?

Iz
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 28, 2007, 11:04:52 PM: Dear Izzy,

For most people I've encountered in my life, they say they "love" me, but that has nothing to do with knowing me or wanting to know me.
So I think that there's alot of "love" which is only as deep as a puddle after a 30- minute rain... and that seems to be how it is with people whose only true love is their own comfort-zone.

I don't feel that anything just happened in these past couple weeks, Iz.... nothing new. I'm sorry they haven't written to you. I guess we're not supposed to apply "shoulds" to others, but I sure think that they should have. It's just their little puddles would disappear in your ocean... because you're genuine... and they are very afraid of that. I'm sorry they're so afraid... and Izzy, I feel that you are more than only curious, but if curious is enough, then so be it? Maybe you all are just oil and water... or maybe it's just that they fear what they don't understand. Either way, it's too bad.

Hugs,
Hope
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 28, 2007, 11:13:27 PM: Thanks Hope

I think that none of them even know who they are so cannot get into what we do here. Our parents never knew either.

Because I hurt so bad, I investigated! so that still leaves me different from all of them, and finally it is okay with me!

So they will talk facts to the very end, but not real feelings.

Noi! Nothing different happened except they know I am soul searching and how boring!

it's 8:12 ans I just put dinner on, so must watch it!

Love
Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: changing on August 29, 2007, 01:08:33 AM: My Dear Izz-

I am sure that your silly unaware sibs love both you and your seafood and pasta salads ! Unfortunately, you may be in the sometimes lonely position of being "the only adult in the room"- with no one there at your level to talk to, or commune with- no one to "grok" you. Maybe I can Dumb you down a bit? No, don't think so... you are like a proud eagle, gliding above, watching below until she swoops down, then ascends again. Can be lonely sometimes, but lofty!
Oh, the wintering tree and castle images you posted really resonated- there is a poetic soul within that scientific high-tech mind of yours, Eagle-Eye!
Hope you have a good night, my dear.

Your adoring fan,

Changing
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 29, 2007, 02:21:19 AM: oh changing,

"The only adult in the room"...................I love that! I feel that! There never was anyone there at my level to talk.....but what is 'grok'? Is it an alcoholic drink or a way to 'put someome in his place'?

I see it all so clearly now, that there was never any sharing and caring talk in the whole family. We were 7 strangers living in the same house, and we are still 5 strangers, with the parents gone!

You are so insightful and so good for me. I am alone but not lonely, and I am just seeing that if I hang out with someone (s), that he/she must have more to talk about than the weather!

I'll have a good night with my book, Nekson DeMille. 'Up Country".

Have a good sleep

Love Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: isittoolate on August 29, 2007, 02:36:42 PM: I have to take back every negative thought and word about my bro (and sis, I hope) as he was away at the cottage and sis is still away at hers.

I had itched for so long, that when I replied to him today, I said it must have been the pleasure of their company that made the itching stop and maybe we could bottle the both of them as an anti-itch medication.

I wish I hadn't been so ready to jump to a negative conclusion, as he said he was happy to hear about my breakthroughs.

However what is likely possible, he (they) wont want a steady conversation about this. but if I have ONE acknowledgement each of what I revealed, it will be okay--so bro has sent his, and now to wait for sis.

Sometimes I am too quick to jump to a conclusion........................but it's good exercise!

Izzy

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Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Certain Hope on August 29, 2007, 08:24:42 PM: That's wonderful news, Izzy... and also a good lesson!

I'm so happy to know that they weren't putting you off, just busy with their own affairs... and that your brother recognizes the great progress you've made.
I hope you'll hear from your sister as well, soon!
Title: Re: My Feelings
Post by: Hopalong on August 29, 2007, 09:39:54 PM: :D :D

SO glad to hear it, Izzy...so glad your assumption you aren't loved or valued was wrong!

love
Hops